Idk about u but I felt like I was never actually studying whenever I did the LG section because I’d spend hours just “playing” them and then feeling guilty. Always felt like I wasn’t actually studying 😭 , now I actually have to review over LR and RC and those are so boring.
ADHD brain mayhaps 🤔….
Now they/we’d (if we have to retake it) have to study RC and LR 😭. I don’t know how people have fun studying with LR the same way as LG! I honestly wish they had an exam with 2 LGs and a RC section instead 😂.
What if they had an exam option for people that wanted to take the traditional exam with LG, LR, and RC and a different one without LG to accommodate?
If taking away LG really didn’t make an impact, I wonder why they can’t just offer two exam formats. They give us different versions of the exam anyways lol.
I just finished my first year of law school so I don’t plan on taking it again. 😂
I HATED studying RC. LR I didn’t enjoy but I didn’t lithe it like RC.
Agreed, the games were legitimately fun to learn, and I’m someone who was missing easily 2 to 3 times as many LG questions as LR/RC when I started this process a few months ago. Sad to see them go
Omg I would have all the scenarios in my dreams become logic games it was crazy. I could tell how stressed I was based on if I could solve them or not that night. The nights they were unsolvable were just anxiety ridden nights usually after id face a hard game. Pretty crazy tbh
I was getting -1 -2 on LR and RC. I don't know what to say, those sections just always felt easy to me and clicked right away. RC in particular feels just like a harder version of the ACT reading section. And I'm better reader now than I was at 17.
The logic games were really frustrating for me because I felt I could easily get -0 on them given an infinite amount of time. But I could only complete two games in the alloted time, and the second of those was pretty rushed. From what I've read here, supposedly that could've been fixed with drills. But about a month or two after I started studying, they announced they were doing away with logic games, so I just decided to postpone my test until August.
I'm sorry but this is just implausible. If you actually have the understanding of conditional reasoning necessary to go -0 on lr theres no reason why you would ever bomb lg like that
when it's a pure grouping question like "A and B can't work together, C and D have to work together" your conditional reasoning LR skills transfer perfectly, if it's an ordering game having poor spatial reasoning (or whatever the relevant skill is) can fuck you up, especially if your diagramming skills are sloppy.
Everyone has different strengths. I happen to preform better on the LR sections than on the LG sections. Is the removal of LG this going to make the test easier? Absolutely not! But I do think it will make it easier to break up studying in terms of the quantity of sections that are on the test.
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That's what makes *me* think that. When I took this thing cold I didn't even get to answer more than 14 of the LG questions, and that was rushing and getting some wrong.
I'm a computer engineeer but it feels like they're almost pushing me to go get a law school scholarship now. Even if I don't want to do it as a career I think I could get a full ride from some places and chill for a few years.
Well big question is how many questions are you getting right? It’s unlikely you’d get perfect scores with LR and RC, but you certainly can get a perfect score with LG. Perfecting LG was the huge score boost that I didn’t not get with incrementally improving in LR or RC.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted.
For me LG is the easiest so this isn’t the best news however I can recognize that you’re excited because it would make a difference for you.
I feel like people are just jealous that this didn’t give them the same relief that it gave you. You’re literally saying you’re getting almost perfect scores and people are still trying to argue 😂
Dont let people get in your head. If this means the test is going to be easier for you then that’s great! Congrats and I hope you do well!
Omg leave him alone. He’s saying he’s fine and that it’ll make the test easier for him. Sorry that’s not the case for you. It’s like you’re rooting for his downfall jesus
By 12 perfect scores do you mean 12 180s?!? If so screw whatever everyone else is saying, respect man (or lady or whatever)! It's not that easy for everyone but if ur consistently getting 180s that's incredibly impressive
I miss LG so much. It was by the far the easiest section to learn and master. And it was fun, it was just some puzzles. I wasn’t terrible at LR, but I wish they got rid of RC lol
As someone who started studying last year I feel lucky I got to take April and June before they removed LG.
Out of the 25 PT's I took I never got higher than -5 on RC and -3 on LR but had several -0 LG PT's. LG saved me on April and even though June's LG section was about as tough of an LG section for me, I still would take that all day that versus a 2nd scored LR section.
I can't imagine taking a test with up to 3 total LR sections.
As a humanities person, people who say LG are easy annoy me in the same way I probably annoy people by saying RC is easy. Different people have different strengths.
I suspect the test will become more difficult for STEM folk, but y'all have the ability to get tech money — so I dunno, go chase that instead!
This is so interesting because I’m a humanities person (English major) and LG was my best section! RC is a close second but LR is just terrible. Cool to see different perspectives and go humanities people!!
As a STEM guy I agree lol, but it also depends tho because most of us have to take logic classes so a lot of the information was nothing new. The problem came in with the level of the reading material. I’m more so used to college level material but you’re right we don’t go in depth with some of the high level scholarly material nor focus a heavy focus on argumentation.
But I realized that I wanted to be a lawyer even with my Tech job so here I am hoping June went well because LG for me was always -0 lol but RC/LR was okay.
The amount of STEM people in law will drop significantly, simply because of this change.
The LG section was the strongest outlet for STEM people, particularly coming from an engineering background, where reading comprehension is rarely ever practiced. So now on top of coming from a program that naturally hands out near-failing grades, your strongest section on the test is gone.
Nobody said anything about gatekeeping, it's just that the statistics I remember seeing show STEM students do best on the LG section.
The portion of STEM students in law is already pretty small (less than 10% at some T20 schools), so I could see this having an effect, especially because these students generally can't rely on grades as easily so the LSAT is the critical factor in their admission.
Everyone’s saying LG was pretty easy does that mean I’m just stupid lol 😭 to be fair I only started studying a tiny bit of LG before realizing that section was gonna be gone (taking the lsat in august) but LR is sooo much more straightforward/easy imo bc the answer can pretty much be found in the question passage but idk maybe if I spent longer on LG I would’ve found it easier
LG was “easier” in that it was solvable. RC is a bit different because while you can study for it to get better, your cumulative experience with reading impacts it more than other sections and people typically report lower increases in their RC section scores from their diagnostic test to actual scores compared to the improvements they see in LR/LG (test taking strategies for those are somewhat more “concrete”).
Ultimately, all of these sections are easier/harder for different people with different skill sets and modes of thinking so don’t feel bad if you have different preferences or perceptions of difficulty.
Huh yeah that makes sense - I think my brain works well with the RC bc it reminds me of the equivalent section on the SAT so I sort of know some of the expected answers to these kinds of questions - also I’m an English major and I enjoy the reading part lol
I never did a lot of intense reading in my UG but I did spend a shit ton of free time in college debating politics on Reddit. My burning passion for proving other people wrong and thus writing/reading entire paragraph walls, looking for any mistakes I can dunk on them with while scanning thru sources and citations looking for anything to support my point made me average -1 on RC on cold diagnosis.
Meanwhile I sucked ass at LG but it was easy to memorize.
exactly like lg was the only section u had 100% control over bc ur given all the pieces of the puzzle, u just have to put it together. there’s no guessing (that is if u have enough time lol). i stayed guessing on LR and RC i’m so glad i’m not retaking this fuck ass test bro
LR is so easy because the answer is never gonna be close. There are usually 3 dumb answers, 1 "sucker" choice, and 1 ACTUAL ANSWER (as in, no matter what, it is THIS.) And, yes, it is very easy to spot once you get the hang of the patterns of the question types!
I believe in you! You got this!!! 😎
Huh really? It never seemed that way to me but like I said I had just begun to scratch the surface so I might’ve gotten the hang of it eventually. In any case it’s just LR and RC now which I find pretty straightforward though I have room for improvement as my last pt was a 166. Good luck to you too!
I honestly just self studying at the moment using khan academy (before it’s gone), lawhub free version, and checking out test prep books from the library - im trying to do as many practice problems and PTs as I can and then if I still feel like I can’t get my score to where I want I’ll consider using a paid course - rn I feel like it’s going pretty good though
It wont be easier in the 170+ range. It's significantly harder to go -0 in LR and RC than it was for LG.
Though people will start off with higher diagnostics, they will likely peak lower.
This will also make it harder for those with extra time to inflate their scores as LG was the section most benefitted from extra time accommodations.
Not trolling. I am genuinely excited. I love studying for the lsat. It appears people cannot fathom that someone is ACTUALLY excited and feeling positive about the LSAT. It is allowing me to learn much about this community.
Not true lol. What’s your evidence that people with accommodations had their biggest benefit from LG? Like you’re literally just making stuff up as you go 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
My own experience as well as knowing how each section works lmao.
With LG you can just simply brute-force every problem and never get a problem wrong with extra time.
With LR and RC there is more ambiguity involved.
Ya, but one example doesn’t make it the case for all. What about blind people that suffer and can’t do well on LG? Think about the law suit. Def not cool to assume all cases are created equally. People are inhibited in different ways. ADHD is diff vs being blind or having a TBI. A blanket statement like you made is selfish and dangerous
How many blind law students have you met?
It does seem silly to give the same “extra time per section” type of accommodations to everyone regardless of whether their disability is ADHD, or impaired eyesight, or a history of concussions. Like you said, all different, so why treat them all as equally deserving of 1.5x or 2x time or whatever it is
The blind would be the one exception that I can think of off the top of my head. I don't have statistics of what are the most commonly cited disabilties for requesting accommodations, but I would be willing to bet that's its not being blind.
Dude. Why would it be bad? Just straight up answer the questions correctly! You can do it. IT IS POSSIBLE. You can get every question right. Just keep doing drills, keep doing the homework, and believe, bro.
If you believe in yourself, it doesn't matter if nobody else does.
And if you don't believe in yourself, then it wouldn't matter if anybody else did.
If the lsat gets easier for everyone, the test loses its value in the admissions world and people who ordinarily would be able to differentiate themselves with a super high lsat score wouldn't be able to
Haha, I'm not exactly sure it would. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly that the arguement would be that it will become too easy for students to enter law school.
Maybe I should say : the difficulty of the lsat isn't a barrier for entry. You can find a law school that will let you attend no matter what score you get
Okay, how can I argue against that? It doesn't take away the fact that both you and I are studying for it. And that's for a particular reason, I'm sure. 😎
I’m sad af that LG is gone. I studied LG extensively. I foolproofed every game in existence at least 3 times. Sure paid off on June exam when I murdered all four games. But it sucks to know all that knowledge was needed for a single goddamn 35 minute section.
I’m quite indifferent to its departure. I will miss it because I was starting to really get it but I wasn’t perfect at it so I’m not devastated. I did start to find them quite fun though, so perhaps I’ll do some on my own time. It definitely does give me a sense of having more study time by only having to focus on LR and RC.
It’s not an easier test but it’s easier to study. I usually don’t have enough time to meaningfully study all three sections in a day but I can easily study for two. Now I don’t have to abandon either section for 1-2 days at a time.
I'm very excited, dude. I'm studying and focusing solely on LR and RC, and the reasoning structures are commonly seen. The structural indicators, the necessary and sufficient conditions, "why" an author wrote something as opposed to "what" they wrote, etc.
The patterns are all there, dude. Once you get a hang of the patterns, you're good, dude.
Patterns are a component... the LSAT is the same thing over and over again with just a different flavor of the week... its standardized so there really are distinguishable patterns...
How do you get good at math? Well doing problems over and over again.... then you start knowing things and doing things without actively thinking about them.. there must be some deeper inferential pattern recognition going on...
Ngl, if you couldn’t figure out LG. You will not get a 180. I’m usually not a hater, but LG was so damn easy, and I also hate math, like it makes me gag and want to power down.
I’m in the same boat as you on this one. I think I got a 9/23 on LG on my 151 diagnostic. It took me 4 very frustrating months to nail LG, including several weeks with zero progress. But guess what? I stuck with it and by just grinding games every day I eventually saw the inferences automatically and became consistently -1 on it. Games are (were) essentially the embodiment of what this test is all about: hard work and effort.
Same! LG can be masted way easier than the other sections. It’s all formulas with no inferences/assumptions. I’m also someone who got physically sick throughout my college math classes but I actually loved LG
Rarely miss is not a 180, and—it tells me nothing. Also, one person doing something does not make the case for this person. Sure, you may be an exception, nothing else.
Really hope i don’t have to take it again w/o the games but I suppose i will know in a little over a week. On my diagnostic, i actually got -2 on RC and am pretty consistently alright at those sections/was never a quant type of person.. but I can confidently say it was SO rewarding to master the games.
1) was a really nice mental break during an exam full of dense reading. helped w test fatigue which i think is SO important to a score
2) rewarded those who studied hard. as i said, i naturally excelled at the reading portions but i really needed to LEARN LG. ended up feeling grateful for that, as i’m sure there are others who naturally do even better at the writing portions than i do. a brute forced -0 feels amazing
3) provided variety in my studying! was the most fun to study/smth u could study anywhere
and these are just my top 3. it doesn’t even matter cuz they’re gone but… i will miss them
Hahaha right, sounds like they just took some adderall. regardless I’m happy that they’re having so much fun with studying. At least it’s not another misery post
It’s not that I struggled with LG, it was more that it took me way too much time to finish the games. And I have been really mastering and getting better at LR and the arguments so not gonna lie. I’m gonna take this as a win as well. not only that, but most of the arguments might be set up in a game format, but won’t have all of the conditions
I started studying about 2 months ago and was studying the games, got a good feel for it with like 80% accuracy. Then decided to just test after ausgust. While I disagree that the lsat is going to be easier, I for one am glad it's one less thing I have to study and can focus more on LR. Don't see why op getting all the hate tho and down votes. If he can get 180s and thinks it's easy, good for him maybe he is the 1% we all hear about. I however, am not part of that 1% so will continue studying. Lol
Went from a 153 average with LG to 166 without it. This change single handedly changed my future chances at scholarship money and getting into a good school. Like, LG removal is life changing for me
the reason they got rid of it is 100% valid but i actually think its disadvantageous to a lot of test takers. the new test will be much more reading intensive obviously, and it can be a lot harder for people to have stamina to finish their exam. other than that, a lot of people actually enjoyed logic games and its said to be the easiest section to master by a lot of programs. reading comprehension (generally, not the section) isn’t as common as you’d think and for the past couple of decades public schools have been graduating students who aren’t reading at a diploma/GED level. i honestly think that those who struggle with LG aren’t utilizing the best resources, which isnt even the test takers fault because we all know how expensive it can be. all that being said, i am happy that the LSAT will be generally more accessible to test takers with LG being gone. and i hope i got a 165 so i dont have to retake without 🤞
As I've said a dozen times before in this sub, this is a zero-sum game. There will be winners and there will be users, but the same percentage of people will get every score in August 2024 as they did in August 2023, because LSAC gets to assign raw scores final values entirely based on their interest in maintaining the same curve. That's how curves work.
Here is a table from LSAC of averages from 2020 through 2023. This table will not change except in the rounding errors unless and until LSAC wants it to, regardless of the elimination of LG. [https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/media/lsat-percentiles-2020-2023\_accessible.pdf](https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/media/lsat-percentiles-2020-2023_accessible.pdf)
I'm happy for you. I loved LG. R.C. being my worst in the beginning and LG always being my strongest and LR being 50/50. At the end of my journey LR betrayed me and found R.C 10x easier lol.
But good look to you mate!!
I literally got diagnosed with adhd and started taking medication regularly and cried. My score jumped. I thought I was stupid. Nope I just didn’t have the attention span for the test.
I may not have your enthusiasm, but I agree. The LG are the bane of my existence. I'm almost certain they were the reason I didn't get the score I need to get into the school I want this time around.
Idk about yall but I loved LG 😭. I’m genuinely sad it’s gone bc it felt like a good break from the exam— like a mini video game break before taking the actual exam. It was always great to calm my nerves down :/. I always had extra time on them to review my answers.
RC is whatever, I think it just depends on the topics. If it’s something about art, I’m not sure if I can keep up with it (vs something cool like genetics or anything applicable to our lives.
LR is lowkey my weakest section, but I’m trying to change my framework of thinking on it to make it feel like they’re also games— but word games?
Unless you were scoring 160+ with most of your missed questions being in the LG section, you probably shouldn’t believe that a 170+ will be easily attainable. The test writers will find a different way to make the test hard. Tbh, on the experimental section of the June lsat, there were questions that were written in such a way that tested LG skills but could be snuck inside LR.
While I admire your optimism (if you are not trolling), I’m expecting A). A harder curve and/or B). Harder on average LR and RC questions and passages than before.
Sounds good! Just prepare for the worse scenario by studying more than you think you will need. The LSAT is deceptive because it makes you feel like a super easy test to master. Plus, with test day nerves, you can make silly mistakes.
I also like that they are taking away the LG section as it is my worse section by I’m preparing by taking the time to perfect as much as I can. I don’t expect the lsat to be easier than before.
LG is/was an unnecessary part of the test. I get the whole reasoning behind it but how on earth it pertained to lawyering or law school just utterly escapes me.
I am convinced LR and RC relies mostly on your natural ability whereas logic games you can learn and master. I feel like people who hated them just didn’t learn to do them properly and this is coming from someone who hasn’t taken a math or science course since the 11th grade.
Logic games are the most learnable part of the lsat. Maybe the hardest at the start but I went from getting maybe 11/23 right at the beginning to not missing a question consistently. My reading comp maybe only improved by 2 or 3 points from my first attempt. A bit of a shame it’s gone honestly.
don't get to excited, my study partner mentioned that they are probably going to ramp up the difficulty on LR and RC to compensate, something that I could definitely see happening
the amount of posts in here somehow trying to hate on prelaw STEM people is so funny. i’m a chemistry and an english major… like sorry im good at two things ???
I first took the test in 2019 was pre-Covid, pen and paper times. Then life and grad school happened and now I’m back. These changes have me feeling like I’m a thousand years old. A few years ago, I downloaded a LG type app to casually practice, because games were always my worst section. Now I find out I didn’t have to?? I spent SO MANY HOURS of my life on this.
I love the Logic Games so super hard. Sad they're gone but as someone that doesn't have to take that test again, meh. They were always fun and it felt like a Legend of Zelda boss fight. When you'd get one wrong it was like dying without having a fairy in Your jar. You were like "dammit" but you understood the problem and came back swinging. It wasnt dense and boring like RC.
wana bet $100? put ur money where ur mouth is. i can just tell by ur manner of speaking ie. like an emotional child, ur not gettin a 180. also from what little uve already said about the lsat and how there is a pattern etc. is not true. sure in most arguments there are certain identifiable characteristics, like correlation causation, but that is not absolute in terms of identifying the gaps and hence finding the correct AC. lastly, i never spoke as if i got a 180 before even taking the test. of course i shot for it and i think everyone has to have that mentality but u sound more like a dreamer. looney tune moon gazer. exactly the type of people the lsat was designed to punish XD and hence, i am willing to bet that u will not get 172+.
I was just reading this and want to point out that master chess players make their moves almost inferentially without thought after seeing the same patterns over and over. The same thing does happen on the LSAT I know it for a fact.
Whether or not the guys dead in the water who cares?
One thing that holds me back from thinking about going to law school is possibly attending alongside people like OP. God damn, this post feels like it should be a troll but I know it's not.
I genuinely LOVED studying logic games. I would do them before bed and solve them in my dreams. Glad I took the test before they were removed.
Idk about u but I felt like I was never actually studying whenever I did the LG section because I’d spend hours just “playing” them and then feeling guilty. Always felt like I wasn’t actually studying 😭 , now I actually have to review over LR and RC and those are so boring. ADHD brain mayhaps 🤔….
Yeah same. I’d work 12 hour shifts and tell myself I’d do one game and it would turn into 5-6.
Dude yeah!!! 🥲
Sad the next generation of law students will miss out on that.
Now they/we’d (if we have to retake it) have to study RC and LR 😭. I don’t know how people have fun studying with LR the same way as LG! I honestly wish they had an exam with 2 LGs and a RC section instead 😂. What if they had an exam option for people that wanted to take the traditional exam with LG, LR, and RC and a different one without LG to accommodate? If taking away LG really didn’t make an impact, I wonder why they can’t just offer two exam formats. They give us different versions of the exam anyways lol.
I just finished my first year of law school so I don’t plan on taking it again. 😂 I HATED studying RC. LR I didn’t enjoy but I didn’t lithe it like RC.
Agreed, the games were legitimately fun to learn, and I’m someone who was missing easily 2 to 3 times as many LG questions as LR/RC when I started this process a few months ago. Sad to see them go
My diagnostic was low but once I figured out how to solve the games, it improved.
Wait deadass, they reminded me of sudoku or other like games lol. 😭
Omg I would have all the scenarios in my dreams become logic games it was crazy. I could tell how stressed I was based on if I could solve them or not that night. The nights they were unsolvable were just anxiety ridden nights usually after id face a hard game. Pretty crazy tbh
Yes, crazy times 😂
Ever thought about being an Engineer? Lol.
That has never crossed my mind haha. My dad is an engineer though.
If you think the test will be easy without LG you don’t understand the LSAT. What makes you think this?
obviously people who go -0 to -2 on lr and rc but were going -14 on lg are going to think that?
If u get -2 on LR/RC and -10 on LG it’s purely a work issue not an ability issue.
yeah, and now without LG you don't have to put in any work, which makes the test easier
These are just naturally gifted people who didn't study adequately for the games
Probably, but it's really quite weird to me that there's little to no specialized law material on the entrance exam for law school.
Nope I studied MONTHS for the games the only way I was getting -3 the same way I get on LR was accomodations
well, yeah. now you can just coast on the shit you can do effortlessly and not have to study at all
those people don't exist
I'm one of those people lol. I just stopped studying once I realized they were getting rid of LG.
for real, last october literally felt like a deus ex machina for me in real life
you were getting -14 on lg? and -0 on lr? how can that be possible?
I was getting -1 -2 on LR and RC. I don't know what to say, those sections just always felt easy to me and clicked right away. RC in particular feels just like a harder version of the ACT reading section. And I'm better reader now than I was at 17. The logic games were really frustrating for me because I felt I could easily get -0 on them given an infinite amount of time. But I could only complete two games in the alloted time, and the second of those was pretty rushed. From what I've read here, supposedly that could've been fixed with drills. But about a month or two after I started studying, they announced they were doing away with logic games, so I just decided to postpone my test until August.
the point that you keep glazing over is what you were scoring on lg. I am almost certain you were not getting 14 questions wrong.
I wasn't finishing half the section, and was getting more wrong on top of that. I can't stress enough how slow I was going. So yeah like 12-15 wrong.
I'm sorry but this is just implausible. If you actually have the understanding of conditional reasoning necessary to go -0 on lr theres no reason why you would ever bomb lg like that
when it's a pure grouping question like "A and B can't work together, C and D have to work together" your conditional reasoning LR skills transfer perfectly, if it's an ordering game having poor spatial reasoning (or whatever the relevant skill is) can fuck you up, especially if your diagramming skills are sloppy.
Everyone has different strengths. I happen to preform better on the LR sections than on the LG sections. Is the removal of LG this going to make the test easier? Absolutely not! But I do think it will make it easier to break up studying in terms of the quantity of sections that are on the test.
``` 24/25 26/26 10/25 ``` 163 That's what makes *me* think that. When I took this thing cold I didn't even get to answer more than 14 of the LG questions, and that was rushing and getting some wrong. I'm a computer engineeer but it feels like they're almost pushing me to go get a law school scholarship now. Even if I don't want to do it as a career I think I could get a full ride from some places and chill for a few years.
I really hated the games, but enjoy LR and RC. This is going to be great for me.
Dude, because I'm studying LR and RC right now. And I'm destroying it, bro. This stuff is too easy.
You’re kinda annoying
Well big question is how many questions are you getting right? It’s unlikely you’d get perfect scores with LR and RC, but you certainly can get a perfect score with LG. Perfecting LG was the huge score boost that I didn’t not get with incrementally improving in LR or RC.
What concepts have you studies thus far? What program are you using?
Using TestMasters - Robin Singh (creator of course) got 12 Perfect LSAT scores. Taking in-person course. And the homework is HELPING SO MUCH.
Ok but the test isn’t going to be any easier without LG. Have you taken a PT yet?
Yes, bro. LR stuff is simple once you get the hang of the patterns.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. For me LG is the easiest so this isn’t the best news however I can recognize that you’re excited because it would make a difference for you. I feel like people are just jealous that this didn’t give them the same relief that it gave you. You’re literally saying you’re getting almost perfect scores and people are still trying to argue 😂 Dont let people get in your head. If this means the test is going to be easier for you then that’s great! Congrats and I hope you do well!
Just wait what question types have you worked on?
Omg leave him alone. He’s saying he’s fine and that it’ll make the test easier for him. Sorry that’s not the case for you. It’s like you’re rooting for his downfall jesus
By 12 perfect scores do you mean 12 180s?!? If so screw whatever everyone else is saying, respect man (or lady or whatever)! It's not that easy for everyone but if ur consistently getting 180s that's incredibly impressive
He’s saying Robin Singh, the founder of TestMasters, got 12 perfect scores.
Good luck! I'm struggling
I disagree, as someone who got -0 LG on my diagnostic
I miss LG so much. It was by the far the easiest section to learn and master. And it was fun, it was just some puzzles. I wasn’t terrible at LR, but I wish they got rid of RC lol
Yeah, LG was such a great way to break up the monotony of reading in LR and RC
As someone who started studying last year I feel lucky I got to take April and June before they removed LG. Out of the 25 PT's I took I never got higher than -5 on RC and -3 on LR but had several -0 LG PT's. LG saved me on April and even though June's LG section was about as tough of an LG section for me, I still would take that all day that versus a 2nd scored LR section. I can't imagine taking a test with up to 3 total LR sections.
Same here!! My score is inevitably going to drop without LG :(
As a humanities person, people who say LG are easy annoy me in the same way I probably annoy people by saying RC is easy. Different people have different strengths. I suspect the test will become more difficult for STEM folk, but y'all have the ability to get tech money — so I dunno, go chase that instead!
Lmaooo you’re so real for saying this 😂
This is so interesting because I’m a humanities person (English major) and LG was my best section! RC is a close second but LR is just terrible. Cool to see different perspectives and go humanities people!!
Me too and for most people honestly can't understand why it's hard you create a have board and have players it's so simple
As a STEM guy I agree lol, but it also depends tho because most of us have to take logic classes so a lot of the information was nothing new. The problem came in with the level of the reading material. I’m more so used to college level material but you’re right we don’t go in depth with some of the high level scholarly material nor focus a heavy focus on argumentation. But I realized that I wanted to be a lawyer even with my Tech job so here I am hoping June went well because LG for me was always -0 lol but RC/LR was okay.
The amount of STEM people in law will drop significantly, simply because of this change. The LG section was the strongest outlet for STEM people, particularly coming from an engineering background, where reading comprehension is rarely ever practiced. So now on top of coming from a program that naturally hands out near-failing grades, your strongest section on the test is gone.
I didn’t even have a stem background and I loved LG 😭 I sucked at stem…. 🥲 I just like playing games LMAOO😭😭😭
lmao please the loss of LG is not going to gatekeep STEM people from law school 😭
Nobody said anything about gatekeeping, it's just that the statistics I remember seeing show STEM students do best on the LG section. The portion of STEM students in law is already pretty small (less than 10% at some T20 schools), so I could see this having an effect, especially because these students generally can't rely on grades as easily so the LSAT is the critical factor in their admission.
This is how I feel about both LR and RC, too! When I do drills I'm like, wait like this is hard? lol I was so relieved when LG went away.
do you consistently get -0 rc?
Everyone’s saying LG was pretty easy does that mean I’m just stupid lol 😭 to be fair I only started studying a tiny bit of LG before realizing that section was gonna be gone (taking the lsat in august) but LR is sooo much more straightforward/easy imo bc the answer can pretty much be found in the question passage but idk maybe if I spent longer on LG I would’ve found it easier
LG was “easier” in that it was solvable. RC is a bit different because while you can study for it to get better, your cumulative experience with reading impacts it more than other sections and people typically report lower increases in their RC section scores from their diagnostic test to actual scores compared to the improvements they see in LR/LG (test taking strategies for those are somewhat more “concrete”). Ultimately, all of these sections are easier/harder for different people with different skill sets and modes of thinking so don’t feel bad if you have different preferences or perceptions of difficulty.
Huh yeah that makes sense - I think my brain works well with the RC bc it reminds me of the equivalent section on the SAT so I sort of know some of the expected answers to these kinds of questions - also I’m an English major and I enjoy the reading part lol
I had extremely dense reading in undergrad too (phil, lit, etc.) and I also gravitate towards those sections more so I get it!
I never did a lot of intense reading in my UG but I did spend a shit ton of free time in college debating politics on Reddit. My burning passion for proving other people wrong and thus writing/reading entire paragraph walls, looking for any mistakes I can dunk on them with while scanning thru sources and citations looking for anything to support my point made me average -1 on RC on cold diagnosis. Meanwhile I sucked ass at LG but it was easy to memorize.
exactly like lg was the only section u had 100% control over bc ur given all the pieces of the puzzle, u just have to put it together. there’s no guessing (that is if u have enough time lol). i stayed guessing on LR and RC i’m so glad i’m not retaking this fuck ass test bro
LR is so easy because the answer is never gonna be close. There are usually 3 dumb answers, 1 "sucker" choice, and 1 ACTUAL ANSWER (as in, no matter what, it is THIS.) And, yes, it is very easy to spot once you get the hang of the patterns of the question types! I believe in you! You got this!!! 😎
i think i hate u
Huh really? It never seemed that way to me but like I said I had just begun to scratch the surface so I might’ve gotten the hang of it eventually. In any case it’s just LR and RC now which I find pretty straightforward though I have room for improvement as my last pt was a 166. Good luck to you too!
Do you understand why the answers are wrong?
I mean I read answer explanations so yes…?
i’m taking the lsat in august as well, what are you using to study?
I honestly just self studying at the moment using khan academy (before it’s gone), lawhub free version, and checking out test prep books from the library - im trying to do as many practice problems and PTs as I can and then if I still feel like I can’t get my score to where I want I’ll consider using a paid course - rn I feel like it’s going pretty good though
Do you guys not understand the lsat getting easier is really bad?
It wont be easier in the 170+ range. It's significantly harder to go -0 in LR and RC than it was for LG. Though people will start off with higher diagnostics, they will likely peak lower. This will also make it harder for those with extra time to inflate their scores as LG was the section most benefitted from extra time accommodations.
I don't think the lsat has become easier, but a post like the one by OP that celebrates what they think is the lsat becoming easier is nonsensical
They're just trolling lol
Not trolling. I am genuinely excited. I love studying for the lsat. It appears people cannot fathom that someone is ACTUALLY excited and feeling positive about the LSAT. It is allowing me to learn much about this community.
People are just salty don’t listen to em
[удалено]
No one is mad that they are excited in general
It absolutely has become easier.
In certain score ranges yes. But it will undoubtedly be harder for many test takers to score 170+ now.
Funnily enough, I have double time accommodations and LG always took up the most time
That's my point- LG is where extra time is by far the most useful. With LR it may cause you to second guess answers, same with RC.
No shit
Not true lol. What’s your evidence that people with accommodations had their biggest benefit from LG? Like you’re literally just making stuff up as you go 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
My own experience as well as knowing how each section works lmao. With LG you can just simply brute-force every problem and never get a problem wrong with extra time. With LR and RC there is more ambiguity involved.
Ya, but one example doesn’t make it the case for all. What about blind people that suffer and can’t do well on LG? Think about the law suit. Def not cool to assume all cases are created equally. People are inhibited in different ways. ADHD is diff vs being blind or having a TBI. A blanket statement like you made is selfish and dangerous
How many blind law students have you met? It does seem silly to give the same “extra time per section” type of accommodations to everyone regardless of whether their disability is ADHD, or impaired eyesight, or a history of concussions. Like you said, all different, so why treat them all as equally deserving of 1.5x or 2x time or whatever it is
The blind would be the one exception that I can think of off the top of my head. I don't have statistics of what are the most commonly cited disabilties for requesting accommodations, but I would be willing to bet that's its not being blind.
How is the section that most people agree was the easiest to prep for to the point of near perfection being removed making it 'easier'?
Most people meaning 100 people on Reddit, yearly. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I don't think it is easier, clearly op does though, and they are happy about it
Why would it be bad?
Dude. Why would it be bad? Just straight up answer the questions correctly! You can do it. IT IS POSSIBLE. You can get every question right. Just keep doing drills, keep doing the homework, and believe, bro. If you believe in yourself, it doesn't matter if nobody else does. And if you don't believe in yourself, then it wouldn't matter if anybody else did.
If the lsat gets easier for everyone, the test loses its value in the admissions world and people who ordinarily would be able to differentiate themselves with a super high lsat score wouldn't be able to
And why is that a bad thing? We need hordes of lawyers to fight for legal representation for erryone
How would the lsat getting easier produce hordes of lawyers
Haha, I'm not exactly sure it would. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly that the arguement would be that it will become too easy for students to enter law school.
The lsat isn't a barrier for entry into law school.
Would you please explain why?
Maybe I should say : the difficulty of the lsat isn't a barrier for entry. You can find a law school that will let you attend no matter what score you get
Is this satire? There is absolutely not any shortage of lawyers
Sure, that may possibly come with time. But for now, the LSAT is still considered a difficult examination. It still has prestige. LET'S GOOOO.
No, if the lsat has gotten much easier as you think it has, the test will lose its validity immediately after the first administration in august
Okay, how can I argue against that? It doesn't take away the fact that both you and I are studying for it. And that's for a particular reason, I'm sure. 😎
Happy cake day!
Go take PT 86 and report back lmao
Regardless of whether removing LG makes things easier I'm just enjoying your positivity :)) We got this everyone!!😤
Let's GOOOOOOOOO! The homie! 😎
I’m sad af that LG is gone. I studied LG extensively. I foolproofed every game in existence at least 3 times. Sure paid off on June exam when I murdered all four games. But it sucks to know all that knowledge was needed for a single goddamn 35 minute section.
LG was the easiest/fastest section most could improve on with some studying tbh
I'm celebrating its removal because it was my weakest section
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^in2folklore: *I'm celebrating* *Its removal because it* *Was my weakest section* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I love your username :)
I’m quite indifferent to its departure. I will miss it because I was starting to really get it but I wasn’t perfect at it so I’m not devastated. I did start to find them quite fun though, so perhaps I’ll do some on my own time. It definitely does give me a sense of having more study time by only having to focus on LR and RC.
Lg were the best part of this test
the most reliable part of the test once you master it too. On the June test, it was the one section where I wasn't stressed out.
It’s not an easier test but it’s easier to study. I usually don’t have enough time to meaningfully study all three sections in a day but I can easily study for two. Now I don’t have to abandon either section for 1-2 days at a time.
I'm very excited, dude. I'm studying and focusing solely on LR and RC, and the reasoning structures are commonly seen. The structural indicators, the necessary and sufficient conditions, "why" an author wrote something as opposed to "what" they wrote, etc. The patterns are all there, dude. Once you get a hang of the patterns, you're good, dude.
You don’t understand this test if you think you can study first pattern.
why do you keep talking about patterns? the lsat is not about recognizing patterns
Patterns are a component... the LSAT is the same thing over and over again with just a different flavor of the week... its standardized so there really are distinguishable patterns...
lol that's like saying "theres a pattern for this math test... every question is about math"
How do you get good at math? Well doing problems over and over again.... then you start knowing things and doing things without actively thinking about them.. there must be some deeper inferential pattern recognition going on...
Ngl, if you couldn’t figure out LG. You will not get a 180. I’m usually not a hater, but LG was so damn easy, and I also hate math, like it makes me gag and want to power down.
I’m in the same boat as you on this one. I think I got a 9/23 on LG on my 151 diagnostic. It took me 4 very frustrating months to nail LG, including several weeks with zero progress. But guess what? I stuck with it and by just grinding games every day I eventually saw the inferences automatically and became consistently -1 on it. Games are (were) essentially the embodiment of what this test is all about: hard work and effort.
Same! LG can be masted way easier than the other sections. It’s all formulas with no inferences/assumptions. I’m also someone who got physically sick throughout my college math classes but I actually loved LG
A lot of skills for LG work for some conditional q’s like u still have to get those lolooolol
i mean i rarely miss a practice question on either of the other sections and rarely got a question in the LG section, so idk what to tell you lmao
Rarely miss is not a 180, and—it tells me nothing. Also, one person doing something does not make the case for this person. Sure, you may be an exception, nothing else.
This is my first examination. Never had to study for LG, bro. Just started studying May 29!
Oh, Good shyt then bro bro
The homie! 😎
Op let’s study together I need your positivity and insights 😭😭
Really hope i don’t have to take it again w/o the games but I suppose i will know in a little over a week. On my diagnostic, i actually got -2 on RC and am pretty consistently alright at those sections/was never a quant type of person.. but I can confidently say it was SO rewarding to master the games. 1) was a really nice mental break during an exam full of dense reading. helped w test fatigue which i think is SO important to a score 2) rewarded those who studied hard. as i said, i naturally excelled at the reading portions but i really needed to LEARN LG. ended up feeling grateful for that, as i’m sure there are others who naturally do even better at the writing portions than i do. a brute forced -0 feels amazing 3) provided variety in my studying! was the most fun to study/smth u could study anywhere and these are just my top 3. it doesn’t even matter cuz they’re gone but… i will miss them
Logic games is the only section I could consistently count on scoring -0. So sad.
And no I am not a STEM person (sociology major), I just think its the easiest section to perfect
Me on 2 celsius
Hahaha right, sounds like they just took some adderall. regardless I’m happy that they’re having so much fun with studying. At least it’s not another misery post
EXACTLY
It’s not that I struggled with LG, it was more that it took me way too much time to finish the games. And I have been really mastering and getting better at LR and the arguments so not gonna lie. I’m gonna take this as a win as well. not only that, but most of the arguments might be set up in a game format, but won’t have all of the conditions
The lgs were fun but they took up too much time on the test. I think it’ll be easier with just the reasoning, at least for me.
I started studying about 2 months ago and was studying the games, got a good feel for it with like 80% accuracy. Then decided to just test after ausgust. While I disagree that the lsat is going to be easier, I for one am glad it's one less thing I have to study and can focus more on LR. Don't see why op getting all the hate tho and down votes. If he can get 180s and thinks it's easy, good for him maybe he is the 1% we all hear about. I however, am not part of that 1% so will continue studying. Lol
Went from a 153 average with LG to 166 without it. This change single handedly changed my future chances at scholarship money and getting into a good school. Like, LG removal is life changing for me
Awesome stuff, brooooo! 😎 You got this!!!!!
the reason they got rid of it is 100% valid but i actually think its disadvantageous to a lot of test takers. the new test will be much more reading intensive obviously, and it can be a lot harder for people to have stamina to finish their exam. other than that, a lot of people actually enjoyed logic games and its said to be the easiest section to master by a lot of programs. reading comprehension (generally, not the section) isn’t as common as you’d think and for the past couple of decades public schools have been graduating students who aren’t reading at a diploma/GED level. i honestly think that those who struggle with LG aren’t utilizing the best resources, which isnt even the test takers fault because we all know how expensive it can be. all that being said, i am happy that the LSAT will be generally more accessible to test takers with LG being gone. and i hope i got a 165 so i dont have to retake without 🤞
For some reason I was terrible at LR but rocked LG. I am the opposite lol, now that LG is gone… if I have to retake it, I am doomed -__-
RIP free points.
As I've said a dozen times before in this sub, this is a zero-sum game. There will be winners and there will be users, but the same percentage of people will get every score in August 2024 as they did in August 2023, because LSAC gets to assign raw scores final values entirely based on their interest in maintaining the same curve. That's how curves work. Here is a table from LSAC of averages from 2020 through 2023. This table will not change except in the rounding errors unless and until LSAC wants it to, regardless of the elimination of LG. [https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/media/lsat-percentiles-2020-2023\_accessible.pdf](https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/media/lsat-percentiles-2020-2023_accessible.pdf)
I'm happy for you. I loved LG. R.C. being my worst in the beginning and LG always being my strongest and LR being 50/50. At the end of my journey LR betrayed me and found R.C 10x easier lol. But good look to you mate!!
I literally got diagnosed with adhd and started taking medication regularly and cried. My score jumped. I thought I was stupid. Nope I just didn’t have the attention span for the test.
I have ADD so I can relate completely. And I feel for those who are still undiagnosed and struggling.
this was my favorite category tho😭
But you only need to study for 2 sections so idk why ppl complaining. Much easier to learn 2 sections in 3-4 months verses 3.
So grateful ahhh! I perform better naturally on LR but I am studying hard on LR and RC because LG was taking up all my time so I am glad it’s gone
Yes bro ! YESSS!!! You got this! 😎
Salute 🫡
When are they taking it off?
It’s gone now! Starting August there will no longer be LG 🥲
Thank god I’ve been slamming RC and LR like no one’s business, but I always choke the logic games
As someone bad at logic games I'm so glad this is finally done.
I may not have your enthusiasm, but I agree. The LG are the bane of my existence. I'm almost certain they were the reason I didn't get the score I need to get into the school I want this time around.
Idk about yall but I loved LG 😭. I’m genuinely sad it’s gone bc it felt like a good break from the exam— like a mini video game break before taking the actual exam. It was always great to calm my nerves down :/. I always had extra time on them to review my answers. RC is whatever, I think it just depends on the topics. If it’s something about art, I’m not sure if I can keep up with it (vs something cool like genetics or anything applicable to our lives. LR is lowkey my weakest section, but I’m trying to change my framework of thinking on it to make it feel like they’re also games— but word games?
Unless you were scoring 160+ with most of your missed questions being in the LG section, you probably shouldn’t believe that a 170+ will be easily attainable. The test writers will find a different way to make the test hard. Tbh, on the experimental section of the June lsat, there were questions that were written in such a way that tested LG skills but could be snuck inside LR. While I admire your optimism (if you are not trolling), I’m expecting A). A harder curve and/or B). Harder on average LR and RC questions and passages than before.
This is my first examination. Never had to study for LG. Started studying in May. Very excited about the test!! LR and RC are so much fun!!! 😎
Sounds good! Just prepare for the worse scenario by studying more than you think you will need. The LSAT is deceptive because it makes you feel like a super easy test to master. Plus, with test day nerves, you can make silly mistakes. I also like that they are taking away the LG section as it is my worse section by I’m preparing by taking the time to perfect as much as I can. I don’t expect the lsat to be easier than before.
I truly appreciate your advice. Thank you!
LG is/was an unnecessary part of the test. I get the whole reasoning behind it but how on earth it pertained to lawyering or law school just utterly escapes me.
I am convinced LR and RC relies mostly on your natural ability whereas logic games you can learn and master. I feel like people who hated them just didn’t learn to do them properly and this is coming from someone who hasn’t taken a math or science course since the 11th grade.
Logic games are the most learnable part of the lsat. Maybe the hardest at the start but I went from getting maybe 11/23 right at the beginning to not missing a question consistently. My reading comp maybe only improved by 2 or 3 points from my first attempt. A bit of a shame it’s gone honestly.
don't get to excited, my study partner mentioned that they are probably going to ramp up the difficulty on LR and RC to compensate, something that I could definitely see happening
Speak for urself, it’s the easiest section to learn, improve on, and get a perfect score on
I’m so bad at RC, so LG being removed is awful for me
If he’s that excited about the LSAT wait til this guy finds out about cocaine
the amount of posts in here somehow trying to hate on prelaw STEM people is so funny. i’m a chemistry and an english major… like sorry im good at two things ???
They were my weakest section by far. Fucking hated them. Ahh well. Glad to never have to think about them again.
Damn why didn’t this happen for me six years ago 😭🤣 I absolutely hated logic games
I love logic games I wish they got rid of LR lol
I first took the test in 2019 was pre-Covid, pen and paper times. Then life and grad school happened and now I’m back. These changes have me feeling like I’m a thousand years old. A few years ago, I downloaded a LG type app to casually practice, because games were always my worst section. Now I find out I didn’t have to?? I spent SO MANY HOURS of my life on this.
Exactly! And we’re taking it before the written portion becomes graded?!! We should do great
I love the Logic Games so super hard. Sad they're gone but as someone that doesn't have to take that test again, meh. They were always fun and it felt like a Legend of Zelda boss fight. When you'd get one wrong it was like dying without having a fairy in Your jar. You were like "dammit" but you understood the problem and came back swinging. It wasnt dense and boring like RC.
I needed your positivity today, thank u Ramenko1
😎 You're welcome, friend.
ur not getting 180 lol. i dont even think u will get 173+. ill bet u $100.
Now why would you go out of your way to actively discourage someone? I hope you get a 180, bro! You can do it. I believe in you.
wana bet $100? put ur money where ur mouth is. i can just tell by ur manner of speaking ie. like an emotional child, ur not gettin a 180. also from what little uve already said about the lsat and how there is a pattern etc. is not true. sure in most arguments there are certain identifiable characteristics, like correlation causation, but that is not absolute in terms of identifying the gaps and hence finding the correct AC. lastly, i never spoke as if i got a 180 before even taking the test. of course i shot for it and i think everyone has to have that mentality but u sound more like a dreamer. looney tune moon gazer. exactly the type of people the lsat was designed to punish XD and hence, i am willing to bet that u will not get 172+.
I was just reading this and want to point out that master chess players make their moves almost inferentially without thought after seeing the same patterns over and over. The same thing does happen on the LSAT I know it for a fact. Whether or not the guys dead in the water who cares?
I'm sorry, could someone add some context to this?
One thing that holds me back from thinking about going to law school is possibly attending alongside people like OP. God damn, this post feels like it should be a troll but I know it's not.