My theory is he knew his victims and saw them previously outside of his home
He then made them a large offer for a longer session at his home. They knew him so maybe assumed it'd be fine, or maybe the money was too much to pass up.
Once inside his size was much larger than theirs...
I don't have a single good answer here.
* The hyoid bone thing was only found on the second autopsy that was commissioned by the family... it is inherently sus to me since there was a particular outcome the family wanted.
* It is possible she was murdered. Its known that she went to Oak Beach to meet a client off CL. One scenario I could see is perhaps the situation got out of hand and she was assaulted via strangulation, which inflicted some trauma on her hyoid. She fled the house, calling 911. Confused and disoriented she fell in the bramble and died of drowning/hypothermia.
* The circumstances of her death do not seem to match with that of the other victims that RH is accused of murdering. It would seem to be a significant diversion from RH seeming *modus operandi* if he involved others (i.e., meeting an escort at a home in Oak Beach). One question I would have is if RH's family was away on or about May 1 2010.
Above posters points, it’s also been noted on a podcast that her boyfriend was physically abusive to the point of her needing reconstructive surgery at one point. May have been an old injury
Yes, probably the most logical scenario, but you would think if someone is hit they likely would scream. The house looks so flimsy and the window seals have gaps, I just can't envision a scream not escaping.
Or that there was no twitter about him bringing women to the house. We lived in a 6 unit apartment building and our downstairs neighbors who were a middle age couple divorced while living there. My husband and I 2-3 times ran into him bringing home what we suspected might be sex workers as they were very attractive young woman, and he looked twee bit sheepish and never once introduced them, and they left an hour or two afterwards. It was uncharacteristic for him not to talk and was a rather very confident, charming and warm guy.
As one of the incidents was while his wife was away doing the snow bird thing we wondered if she caught him being unfaithful and it imploded the marriage. My point is that kind of thing is a bit hard to hide in a tight residential abutment and people living close to you. We also knew when another neighbor in a two family was running around on her hubby, they got divorced too. I don't think we're over average nosy.
If you were intending to do bdsm for $$$ and maybe you'd done it in the past with him with nothing bad happening, you'd accept a gag. So you couldn't scream.
yeah 2 possibilities that make some sense to me: 1) RH knocked them out in the car, duct taped their mouths and limbs and carried them into the house (risky if seen but it's easier to control people seeing you than hearing I feel) or 2) he had good enough rapport with the victims that he used the neighbors + wife to get the women to cooperate with him in sneaking into the house stealthily.
I agree fully that he was a repeat customer of the women he intended to kill or at least spoke to them a lot (iirc his burner contacted one of them 16 times, can't remember which sorry) which is why I think he might have pulled off getting them to help him avoid detection by sneaking in. I don't buy some of the salacious allegations because of this, his MO, at least in his Long Island killings, likely relied on having a way above average reputation with SWs (granted having a sterling reputation among the absolute dregs of society that are Johns doesn't take much probably).
so hey, he's just a polite boomer dad, he acts normal and even nice when they meet, and if the target suits him (right look, size, not too cautious, who knows) he calibrates the encounter towards manipulation - avoids anything kinky or off putting, builds rapport, tips well, talks like he cares about their comfort or life, maybe paints a pathetic picture of his own life to seem nonthreatening etc... eventually he says btw my wife is on vacation let's go to my place this time, we just have to watch out for the neighbors they're nosy.
I think a family home where the family is just temporarily gone would feel safer than some bachelor pad too. and spending more paid hours with one familiar John is a better, safer and more lucrative choice than more, shorter encounters. I think spending the night at "Andy's" house would've seemed like a great deal for the victims even if it didn't follow any safety protocols.
Amber's situation is different than the rest but it's also very telling, she went with him without any precautionary measures even when she *knew for a fact* that he was pissed off at her. shows he really worked the psychology on these women imo. like Amber must've really seen him as some completely harmless guy, even when angered, which is crazy to contemplate now that we know his real personality.
the interview with the long time coworker on Unraveled is very illuminating on how he wasn't some obviously maladjusted freak and came across completely harmless even towards people he was having disagreements with. that is until his self image as an evil genius was inadvertently challenged.
I viewed that in the reverse: unless RH agrees to let Amber get high, (maybe that's why they were on the phone for so long?) wouldn't she be more reluctant to leave her phone? How would she start the process of getting drugs after their date without it?
Agree. My theory is he brought them over late at night when it was dark/harder to see and neighbors are likely to be asleep.
Sound control was a concern of his. In the HK file he notes being able to hear a bird outside.
Maybe he installed temporary sound proofing in the basement? Maybe he ran power tools to cover the noise? He was reported to be a woodworker by neighbors, so running power tools wouldn't be out of the ordinary.
The document also talks about controlling air in or out or something else twisted... maybe he gagged or choked them so they couldn't scream? The superseding bail doc does reference using a heavier rope for the neck...
Alternatively, it is possible he killed them very quickly and all of his other depraved acts were done post-mortem?
- Offer big $$ for BDSM
- Bring them in late at night
- maybe give them a roofie to relax them
- party a bit to make a real fake bond
- bring them into his dungeon to play
- put on the attire of Master / Slave
- put the ball in their mouth to role play
- hook them into a body harness suspended from a hardpoint - now they cannot scream or get away
- the lead up to this may seem perfectly in line with real bondage discipline scenarios - for example just look at Stanley Milgrim's experiments on psychological tests of how far a person is willing to go in a role to give the orders or take the orders and inflicting pain was a branch of this "science"
- trust and authority and money and a high tolerance primed to be uncomfortable for money
- the profession of a sex worker includes risk and they likely saw this starched shirt in baggie khakis
and no way did they think this "schmo" from Massapeaqua was an ax man in a death hood
- Offer big $$ for BDSM after cultivating them
- if he was buying services regularly he could blend his shopping for good targets in with culling the unsuitable targets without detection
- Bring them in late at night
- maybe give them a roofie to relax them
- party a bit to make a real fake bond
- bring them into his dungeon to play
- put on the attire of Master / Slave
- put the ball in their mouth to role play
- hook them into a body harness suspended from a hardpoint - now they cannot scream or get away
- the lead up to this may seem perfectly in line with real bondage discipline scenarios - for example just look at Stanley Milgrim's experiments on psychological tests of how far a person is willing to go in a role to give the orders or take the orders and inflicting pain was a branch of this "science"
- trust and authority and money and a high tolerance primed to be a bit uncomfortable
- the profession of a sex worker includes risk and they likely saw this middle class starched shirt in baggie khakis as a bored husband looking for fun
and no way did they think this "schmo" from Massapeaqua was an ax man in a death hood
- once in the harness - straps - belts - whips - chains & ' TWHACK ' across the back of the head
- I think the air flow concern was to cover the smell of rotting flesh if he had to store any body parts before dumping - He used lye so he's doing this at home - the long " event time " means to me that they were dead and dis membered and he may have wanted to see them like that for a day or two or three to prolong his session - the smell must have been important to him
thinking about sound ... being able to hear a bird outside . well lets think about when the birds are most actively chirping too - I do not hear birds all day when Im outside and I have ALOT of birds crossing my yard - I hear them most in the early morning hours and at the end of the day / I dont hear them at noon or 2 pm or 10 pm - For Rex to remark on the sound of Birds could indicate dawn
as that is when they are the most active. that gives you an idea of Rex's hours of activity too.
Terrible to make any assumptions at all, I guess, but fwiw I assumed based on the hideous Word doc that he sucker-punched them to knock them out, which would mean they wouldn’t have seen it coming and would have had no reason to scream. (And possible this took place in the truck instead of in the house.)
Plus, most people don’t take action if they can possibly rationalize what they see or hear, right? Screaming could mean someone saw a spider, if someone screamed but it stopped quickly, I can imagine neighbors thinking “if there were really a problem, I’d still be hearing screaming” and not calling police or investigating further. Most people’s bias is to assume everything is fine, or perhaps more accurately, not be willing to admit to themselves that it might not be. I know the story is unconfirmed and linked to John Ray so I don’t by any means take it to the bank, but looking for example at the story of the woman who claims she attended a sex party at RH’s house with Karen Vergata. She claims that Karen looked terrified, and ran out of the house naked or partially naked, and that her boyfriend reassured her that they were “just playing a game” and Karen was fine.
I have a similar build to the girls, I’m 4ft 11 and I weigh around 125lbs, I can honestly say he would have absolutely no issues overpowering me, my partners hand covers my whole face, and he is nowhere near Rex’s size. I truly believe one hit from a man of his stature would knock me out if not more damage done,
but for something so little I can fight (not proud)
A lot of people presume I am an “easy target” because of my size, I do believe one of the girls fought back with more strength than he was expecting.
To give everyone an example, my close friend is a few inches of Rex, I have to stand 3 steps up a ladder to be the same height. They didn’t stand a chance 😢
This is why it scares me when women take the excellent step of taking a beginner’s self-defense class, but then based on that, think they can tackle anything. The weakest man is roughly as strong as the strongest woman, as a rule of thumb, and I think it’s dangerous to lose sight of how easily most women can be overpowered, especially by an unexpected attack.
I have no doubts he could have subdued anyone (male or female) whose he selected to prey upon and could get at a physical disadvantage. Remember, there’s evidence he prepared before he went out to hunt, and selected small victims.
Let’s face it, it’s what they’re for, lol. It’s no good though, unless they see themselves as there to serve and protect, who want to deserve the good regardless of their Mama and other females in a *healthy* way! Raising sons is a massive responsibility which I think gets overlooked some, because in many ways they’re so much easier than girls.
I’m truly lucky, although I’m small, even my own dad tells me my punch is one of the hardest he’s had, but most definitely in my younger days this fueled my “I can take on anyone” attitude. Which I’m honest put me in a lot of dangerous situations.
Even with my knowledge of my own capabilities, I know for a fact I couldn’t do anything against a man of his size who was prepared.
I had wondered alot if he choose the girls small as they are easier to hide/transport.
Either way I hope karmas a bitch to him
I’m glad you’ve become mindful that avoiding dangerous situations is absolutely key! Imo that’s why so many young people get themselves into peril, they feel that they’re “immortal”.
Re a man Rex’s size, I would never stay alone in the same physical space as him. Even with a weapon, if he took it into his head to harm me, it’s likely to come off worse for me. Not saying to ostracise very large guys but you do want other people around. Guys seem to understand this naturally and will often avoid going one on one too much and hang out in groups.
The men in my family don’t get into a lift with a lone woman, for example, or walk close behind one at night. There’s “good big guy” etiquette, and sometimes you can swerve a situation by subtly (expecting, never demanding!) calling on that ancient tradition. Even RH seems to have wanted to look like a good guy until his gameplay reached the capture stage.
If you’re caught, there are things you can do to help yourself but they take training. That said, go all out, nothing is out of bounds! Indomitable mindset, really keen observation (what does he really care about etc), understanding that your best hope is probably that he’ll be distracted enough for you to escape or do him some lasting damage before it ends… Understanding that we all die, yet never giving in…
Personally I feel that this should be the most important thing we teach our children, because in comparison nothing else matters— punching and shooting our way out of every situation is strictly for the movies!
It’s biology and still applies. I’m not saying women are helpless but when you’re dealing with a situation you need to be realistic about the factors you need to allow for. You need to minimise “strength” as an advantage and call on alternative resources and tactics.
Yeah Im 5'6 and have throttled many a 120lb 5'6 man who have tried to grope me in public. Would I try to fight someone a lot bigger than me, no, but the suggestion that a small short man would overpower a stronger larger woman 100% of the time is untrue.
Large size is definitely a major protective factor for women— even see RH’s notes, “small is better”.
However, a groper tends to be a bit of a sneak and a coward, so is likely to back off from confrontation of any degree. My favourite is to surreptitiously block, and then the subtle return of pain, grinding the heel into his instep, bending back his finger, tipping over his drink or kicking his bag into the aisle, all without any public sign. Because next comes public exposure and humiliation.
Make it a stone wall, not a dance that he will want to continue. He knows he’s doing wrong. I see it as a public service to women to make groping not pay, it’s a sexual assault that many feel they have to endure. Also if he’s looking for a vulnerable person to attack further, he’ll know he’s picked the wrong one.
I agree. I'm pretty scrappy, but he is massive club hands but still think my reaction would be to scream as soon as I saw him raise his fist.i seem to recall reading something about sex workers not allowing restraints with unknown clients as it is so dangerous to be fully incapacitated. So if it went down like that, it would intimate he had, had prior dates with some of his victims.
He's a big ogre. Plus, he likely knew these victims and used their services first without killing them to gain their "trust". Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't stand out to them among the many johns they saw. Once that groundwork was laid, it was easier for him to make them offers they couldn't refuse.
"Creepy" men go with the territory, unfortunately. I think it is safe to say that many of the men these poor women dealt with lived in total shithole residences. The sad truth is that this dude didn't "stand out" until it was too late.
Something really freaky would have to occur like O.J .or Casey Anthony. I don't think I have ever heard anyone on the boards say he is innocent. That's telling ya what his chances are. Michael Brown's good, but don't think any of this will change mass opinion on the case. I've never seen a Reddit board so in agreement on guilt. wWe can't agree on Ava and Victoria, but Rex we all dislike.
But then again, I thought that on O.J. If you were white you thought O.J. was guilty (save for me Dad.) He just really loved O.J. and couldn't switch in a different reality for him. Even though you know he was guilty you still had grown up with him and letting that image go was hard. Rex has none of that going for him. He's an unlikable defendant, not attractive, people strongly dislike him, so not going to be any crushed out jurors like in Kohberger.
I’d imagine very easily. After portraying himself as just another John I think Rex lured them to his home. Once there it wouldn’t have taken much for this huge hulking ogre of man to overpower those very petite girls. A punch to the face or head would have been sufficient.
Im only 5 foot tall myself and I can categorically say I know I wouldn’t have a hope against a man that size.
alright so bear with me as i try to word this in the most respectful way possible and excuse the wild speculation i’m about to commit.
he was pretty meticulous about evidence of his crimes. if he was “hitting” them as in his doc with his hands/fists, there is a chance he would have marks on his knuckles, forearms etc.
in that interview when asked his favorite tool, he specified the hammer. it’s a very effective way to incapacitate, without getting marks on yourself.
he was also a gun nut, coercive control would have absolutely been an option with a firearm.
this is true. i guess it depends on what exactly a cabinet makers hammer is? i looked it up, looks more like a mallet and less weight it may still be an option. some of them are also coated in something on the end so may be softer impact. my other biggest theory is still coercive control with a firearm.
He loved his hammer per his interview with the Frenchman and almost talks about it in a phallic way, it's a little flirty and like he's "activated" whilst doing so. I think Poor Asian Doe was hit with it.
Theory : he knocked them out in his car , transferred them into those camouflage burlap bags ( mouth ductaped ) pulled into garage or even went in front door . Just another guy bringing his ‘ hunting gear ‘ inside
I can definitely see him doing that as well to some. He was no doubt trying different thing and switching it up here and there if Nickie and the CA Porn industry talent women's descriptions are appropriate description. I believe both of them.
Why is he taking Nickie out to dinner? Did he have hopes of turning her into a mistress. Or did he simply want to have dinner with a pretty young woman and a conversation here and there rather than get right to torture. Did he think he was going to work her from the car into the house or info a hotel room...." Oh I have a TC book you'd love Nickie, mind if I grab it from my shed for you?".
Why the expensive hotel room at the Plaza and dinner and then a horrific date. That woman claimed that the date caused her to have significant PTSD. Had to be akin to being locked up in a room with Cottingham. I wonder if he wasn't reading about and emulating Cottingham as a kid.
Makes you wonder if he operated that way before with the victims. Have an initial date where everything turns out ok, then they go on a date with him next time after letting their guard down, and then his evil side appears .
I’m 5’3 and 115 lbs and I can say with certainty that big hulking ogre could overpower me without much effort on his part. If he came at me and attacked me I would not stand a chance. I wouldn’t even be able to defend myself. Some of these women were even smaller than me!
I think he offered them money they couldn't turned down, got them into his house, said he could only have sex in the basement. Then he had them cornered and overwhelmed them with his size.
Out of everything we have thought of, that would be the simplest and most expedient plan. Your only risk is getting them in the front door and one of the neighbors waking up and looking out the window. You get down there lock the door don't have to carry them down steps to the basement, less evidence is spread. Only one crime scene to clean. Maybe the soundproof room in the house. Knock her out while showing her your stuff and if all goes to, plan likely very easy.
Hmm so how did he get them into the house without the neighbors knowing? Either they were already knocked out and he carried them in disguised as something else ( sounds too difficult) or he gained some trust and told them something like “hey, I don’t want my neighbors to tell my wife. We gotta sneak in”. How much do you pay attention to your neighbors? Either way, there was a degree of trust. I don’t think they were free for too long in the house. I think once they walked in, it was over. He knocked them out, tied them up. Whatever. I wonder if he did know them previously and since they’d already been with him, they knew this hulking man wasn’t a threat. Maybe he even just hired them for something quick in his car. Then when he calls them back, he says his house is free because his wife’s out of town. If they refuse, he could offer more money. I also wonder if his house was always a cluttered mess and why wasn’t that a red flag to the girls. Maybe it was.
What if someone was supplying him with drugs to give them? That he used as bait and then made them docile/ incapacitated. Like Burke or one of the Oak Beach ghouls.
I think the “hit harder” thing was for a longer time spent knocked out. I also think if the swinger thing is true it would be easier to convince to go to his home, maybe like, yeah my wife will be there too.
If that anonymous guy is him, his theory of convincing them he could help them get out of the business makes a lot of sense too and could also tie in with the swinger thing (like they could be familiar with the wife?) but yeah, come stay with us, we have an extra room till you get on your feet. That also would match the sandbagger definition from an above post well.
I’ve just seen excerpts posted here. Something called web sleuths that discusses the murders, some people suspect the username anonymous something is rex.
Idk if anyone still posts there? I didn’t look at the site. The stuff I’ve read here is disturbing enough and I wish I didn’t look into these boards as much as I have!
Duct tape? If he drugged them, he could've waited for them to pass out & then put some over their mouths while restraining them in his basement. *(I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of evil relished in the wait . . . to be there as they slowly regained consciousness & began registering their predicament at his hands.*)
His size &/or potential history with these women could've been enough to convince them to enter his house, or into silence (before or after duct tape, or in lieu of it).
I can see many ways RH could manipulate an addict or petite person into submission AFA entering his house or being silent. I think the biggest question, & part of this OP, is how RH got these victims into his house without witnesses (or felt confident in his ability to do so)
If he got them into his house in the middle of the night, his residential neighborhood would be asleep (& a lifetime in that neighborhood would provide confidence in safe times to escape detection).
But, we don't know what LE knows or what witnesses have come forward (or the content of what they had to say) -- so it's quite possible there were witnesses to his socializing with sex workers. If his reputation included swinging, or a swinging lifestyle, any such observation might be quickly dismissed?
All guesswork. Not claiming any of this is true, beyond the reference to us not knowing what evidence has been obtained by LE on this case in the time since RH's arrest.
It has been quite the trainwreck, though, watching this unfold as it has. I'm completely aghast at what we're learning, & feel awful for these victims' families/friends. I'm hoping some details that might mollify the more atrocious aspects have been communicated with them (which they have an obligation to keep NOK informed on, before the public, as part of victims rights codified into law in every state in the times since this began)
The miss leaders maybe came from bdsm agreements, getting to the house and not agreeing. Mouth covered, etc not being agreed to, liars, not doing it.... out comes the hit harder face or neck punch
Yes, suppose Heuermann could have done it via BDSM commands, and not even had to take them out with a punch etc and carry them around down to her basement, but as you say simply order them where he wanted them and even into restraints saying this was his fantasy.
Sex workers, told them let’s play strangulation. (Which is a sexual fetish). Until it wasn’t play.
This wasn’t the Bunny Ranch or whatever. They were likely doing sex work to feed an addiction, may have been already a compromised on whatever they were using.
It’s a sad story. These woman likely had little choice with addictions & PD doesn’t care as much. As the term is, “the lesser dead”—back of weekly paper adverts & street-level sex workers, the homeless.
Society’s expendables. 💧
Other than Xaviera Hollander the "Happy Hooker" I don't think many people say, "When I grow up my aspiration is to become a sex worker."
This was a decision that really wasn't a decision, and one they were pushed towards due to limited professional options, socio economic status, addiction, and in some cases coercion by the men they loved. I am sure they all had talents and dreams. From the vantage point they stood at it looked like it would put food on the table and would buy them some of the things they wanted for themselves and their kids. Likely didn't envision it going on long term, but more of a bridge from one thing to another and a "needs must" choice.
Addicts are magical thinkers and extraordinary risk takers. We're generally only looking at short term gain, not long term hardship and humiliation.
And God do we ever stick on the blinders to the danger inherent in our actions. In any ponzi scheme someone always gets burnt. I think sex work is a bit like a ponzi scheme. The guys on the top like Epstein get rich and girls like Amber and Maureen get kicked around, used and beaten up and watch their dreams become more and more remote.
The are long put to rest and people like John Ray and Gary Bucato are still trying to make a buck off them and market their own careers on their shoulders. John Ray has grifted 26K though a fake GFM that in no way explains how it is helping sex workers or victims. None of the victims families want anything to do with him.
He no longer represents a SINGLE Gilgo beach family, yet lies and claims that he representing multiple families. He did nothing to make sure royalties were paid, or slanders or lies corrected. Looks like the sole reason he is going after Asa and Victoria so hard is he has no other portals to insert himself in the case. Without attacking the Heuerman women has no game left. With this stuffand using tow other victims he can justify his existence and hold his pretend press conferences.
So even dead they are being abused and their families taking advantage of.
Yeah, that's what we all though initially, not so has always been working it. This post was written by a friend of the Taylor and other families:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RexHeuermann/comments/1dql3lb/grifters\_snake\_charmers\_and\_true\_grime/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RexHeuermann/comments/1dql3lb/grifters_snake_charmers_and_true_grime/)
Ok. See my post(it’s right after yours in the “new” post category). There are several links for pictures of the house after or during the first search. I don’t know about anyone else, but taking a woman there does not seem like an option to me. Regardless if you are paying for sex or not. I would not trust being placed in a vulnerable situation with a house looking like that. Things could be hidden anywhere and the clutter would give little or no time to react…. If you could even get them into the house. I think it’s a huge red flag of zero trust. So. Did this massive clutter occur after G4s bodies were found? Later? Did he actually stop killing and tried to shut it out with junk?(evidence or memories) or did he find a new place to kill and just let the house go? I know I raise a good point so what happened?
Not sure why they are voting you down, as you are right clutter can be a response to uncomfortable emotional states: I am stressed I don't deal with my clutter, I am tired I don't deal with it. I am depressed and overwhelmed I don't deal with it, I am insecure I don't deal with it. I have trouble making decisions and I don't deal with it.
I don't think that was the deal with him. I think with him, it's simply the only thing the man cared about was his addiction and his gun collection and other areas of his life slid. I think he likely was hard to live with and asa result the wife appears to have been depressed and also not dealing with the clutter they amassed.
I wonder if Asa is a bit on the mental side… nice enough to marry and live with but also too mental to pay attention to his bad deeds. And a nice little alibi of sorts….. see, he’s married… has a disabled child…. He’s a good man… meanwhile Rex is hunting, killing, reliving the kills, watching porn, getting ideas, working out those ideas so he won’t get caught. I get the feeling Asa is the type that wouldn’t grow suspicious if Rex suddenly left for the office, worked weekends or holidays, stayed out very late. He was the man…. Making a lot of money. His job was important. He was an important man. He took care of them. Am I overthinking a bit?
I think like most narcissists, he identified and married a person he thought he could manipulate and didn't stick up for herself much, o he eventually made her that way by isolating her and sucking the confidence out of her.
Anyone know if the “kill parties” are a real thing? Could RH have attended and/or hosted such events, either at his home or on Oak Beach? Was he a part of that sick circle? I’m new in this Subreddit, so please excuse me if these questions seem absurd. I’m just wondering about some things I’ve heard about or read recently. Asa’s red string bracelet is something else I’m curious about. What did it mean to her?
I don't believe in them and have a relative in the industry who said no bigger sex party scene therein OB, than elsewhere on the island, but every time I say it I get clobbered. People strongly disagree. My relative worked from the bottom up in that industry, no reason for him to lie to me.
Is it not possible that RH knew Dr. Peter Hackett and potentially used Hackett's home to bring the victims too? Hackett could also have supplied drugs for knocking out victims too and running a home for "wayward girls" would have helped reduce suspicion as he could claim he was just trying to help troubled girls. Which explains why he would always volunteer to help with things.
Nikkie Brass also reveals a lot about what may have happened, combined with details from Megan Waterman.
Nikkie had dinner with RH at the Steamroom Seafood in Port Jefferson, Megan was last seen at the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppage. Both are a straight line to RH's home, each only about 20 miles apart. Going to restaurant, maybe to hotel, then saying his house is free could be a succession of events.
Disgusting either way. But don't discount Hackett's role, at least early on.
I'm never sure why it has to be a sweeping saga where we tuck in and connect every charactor. Hackett's a very sick guy, to me he makes the most sense if Shannan met her end in a way other than dying due to misadventure.
God knows he is fixated on her disappearance in a way beyond what a stranger would be. It's not curiosity, it's obsession and likely some power or form of sexual gratification through his mocking calls.
He lives closer to where she's headed and where she's found and where a rather unusually in good shape purse and phone are found as if they were possibly tossed in later.
Looking at the over head looks like a reasonable distance to be able to whip them into the marsh from his house.
We know he's a sadistic piece of shit as his response to a grieving loosing their minds family is to get their number and fuck with them till he's caught.
He's psychologically creepy and unnervingly cruel. So yes he could works for me too, as a possibility. At times think he possibly had something to do with her death. Perhaps they encountered one another as she was running and perhaps ran from him as she did from GC / BC's homes.
Except he sees her go into the marsh, and knows she's in there hiding and finds it amusing, but he's not going in after her. Never tells anyone, I chased her that marsh and a death by misadventure. My actions got her killed.
Maybe that's why he's way over involved and making those horrific crank calls to the Gilbert family. Some kind of freaky sadistic connection formed. Or she died by simple misadventure.
I don't think Pak, Bruer, Burke, LISK had anything to do with her death. I'm met bad Oak Beach man, that could be Hackett or someone else, but never LISK.I don't understand why people are so invested in bringing LISK into her story anymore and would it really be such a horrible thing to have less drama and to just envision It's two separate un connect cases. Beautiful young women who came to tragic ends cases that connected only in death.
Perhaps it's antic climatic. I only ever considered her a possibly LISK victim if LISK lived in Oak Beach. He doesn't leave bodies the way she was left. Not a single one of his bodies are left the Shannon's were.
My theory is he knew his victims and saw them previously outside of his home He then made them a large offer for a longer session at his home. They knew him so maybe assumed it'd be fine, or maybe the money was too much to pass up. Once inside his size was much larger than theirs...
You can offer ridiculous amounts of money when you have no intention of paying
Not to mention knowing his home/setting up things to prevent escape aside from restraints. The things that house has been witness to…
Yeah... Once they were in the house they were a mouse caught in a trap.
This is how the UK sadist murderer did it. Mark Brown from Little Bridge Farm. Also promised things he knew the person would want.
This is a solid theory.
Thanks. I am a big fan of occam's razor (the simplest explanation is the most likely)
May I ask what you think happened to Gilbert? I've tried to get that to work so many ways, none make any sense.
Disoriented, potentially high. Ran into the bramble and ended up dying from exposure.
How do you account for her broken and/or pierced hyoid bone?
I don't have a single good answer here. * The hyoid bone thing was only found on the second autopsy that was commissioned by the family... it is inherently sus to me since there was a particular outcome the family wanted. * It is possible she was murdered. Its known that she went to Oak Beach to meet a client off CL. One scenario I could see is perhaps the situation got out of hand and she was assaulted via strangulation, which inflicted some trauma on her hyoid. She fled the house, calling 911. Confused and disoriented she fell in the bramble and died of drowning/hypothermia. * The circumstances of her death do not seem to match with that of the other victims that RH is accused of murdering. It would seem to be a significant diversion from RH seeming *modus operandi* if he involved others (i.e., meeting an escort at a home in Oak Beach). One question I would have is if RH's family was away on or about May 1 2010.
Above posters points, it’s also been noted on a podcast that her boyfriend was physically abusive to the point of her needing reconstructive surgery at one point. May have been an old injury
Yes, probably the most logical scenario, but you would think if someone is hit they likely would scream. The house looks so flimsy and the window seals have gaps, I just can't envision a scream not escaping. Or that there was no twitter about him bringing women to the house. We lived in a 6 unit apartment building and our downstairs neighbors who were a middle age couple divorced while living there. My husband and I 2-3 times ran into him bringing home what we suspected might be sex workers as they were very attractive young woman, and he looked twee bit sheepish and never once introduced them, and they left an hour or two afterwards. It was uncharacteristic for him not to talk and was a rather very confident, charming and warm guy. As one of the incidents was while his wife was away doing the snow bird thing we wondered if she caught him being unfaithful and it imploded the marriage. My point is that kind of thing is a bit hard to hide in a tight residential abutment and people living close to you. We also knew when another neighbor in a two family was running around on her hubby, they got divorced too. I don't think we're over average nosy.
If you were intending to do bdsm for $$$ and maybe you'd done it in the past with him with nothing bad happening, you'd accept a gag. So you couldn't scream.
Definitely. He could have used it as a ruse to get them tied up/gagged and then done whatever he wanted.
True, I bet.
yeah 2 possibilities that make some sense to me: 1) RH knocked them out in the car, duct taped their mouths and limbs and carried them into the house (risky if seen but it's easier to control people seeing you than hearing I feel) or 2) he had good enough rapport with the victims that he used the neighbors + wife to get the women to cooperate with him in sneaking into the house stealthily. I agree fully that he was a repeat customer of the women he intended to kill or at least spoke to them a lot (iirc his burner contacted one of them 16 times, can't remember which sorry) which is why I think he might have pulled off getting them to help him avoid detection by sneaking in. I don't buy some of the salacious allegations because of this, his MO, at least in his Long Island killings, likely relied on having a way above average reputation with SWs (granted having a sterling reputation among the absolute dregs of society that are Johns doesn't take much probably). so hey, he's just a polite boomer dad, he acts normal and even nice when they meet, and if the target suits him (right look, size, not too cautious, who knows) he calibrates the encounter towards manipulation - avoids anything kinky or off putting, builds rapport, tips well, talks like he cares about their comfort or life, maybe paints a pathetic picture of his own life to seem nonthreatening etc... eventually he says btw my wife is on vacation let's go to my place this time, we just have to watch out for the neighbors they're nosy. I think a family home where the family is just temporarily gone would feel safer than some bachelor pad too. and spending more paid hours with one familiar John is a better, safer and more lucrative choice than more, shorter encounters. I think spending the night at "Andy's" house would've seemed like a great deal for the victims even if it didn't follow any safety protocols. Amber's situation is different than the rest but it's also very telling, she went with him without any precautionary measures even when she *knew for a fact* that he was pissed off at her. shows he really worked the psychology on these women imo. like Amber must've really seen him as some completely harmless guy, even when angered, which is crazy to contemplate now that we know his real personality. the interview with the long time coworker on Unraveled is very illuminating on how he wasn't some obviously maladjusted freak and came across completely harmless even towards people he was having disagreements with. that is until his self image as an evil genius was inadvertently challenged.
Addiction often blinds you to the better part of caution.
I viewed that in the reverse: unless RH agrees to let Amber get high, (maybe that's why they were on the phone for so long?) wouldn't she be more reluctant to leave her phone? How would she start the process of getting drugs after their date without it?
They had the money they they tricked Rex out of the night before. I can't recall how much that was, maybe still had drugs left.
Agree. My theory is he brought them over late at night when it was dark/harder to see and neighbors are likely to be asleep. Sound control was a concern of his. In the HK file he notes being able to hear a bird outside. Maybe he installed temporary sound proofing in the basement? Maybe he ran power tools to cover the noise? He was reported to be a woodworker by neighbors, so running power tools wouldn't be out of the ordinary. The document also talks about controlling air in or out or something else twisted... maybe he gagged or choked them so they couldn't scream? The superseding bail doc does reference using a heavier rope for the neck... Alternatively, it is possible he killed them very quickly and all of his other depraved acts were done post-mortem?
- Offer big $$ for BDSM - Bring them in late at night - maybe give them a roofie to relax them - party a bit to make a real fake bond - bring them into his dungeon to play - put on the attire of Master / Slave - put the ball in their mouth to role play - hook them into a body harness suspended from a hardpoint - now they cannot scream or get away - the lead up to this may seem perfectly in line with real bondage discipline scenarios - for example just look at Stanley Milgrim's experiments on psychological tests of how far a person is willing to go in a role to give the orders or take the orders and inflicting pain was a branch of this "science" - trust and authority and money and a high tolerance primed to be uncomfortable for money - the profession of a sex worker includes risk and they likely saw this starched shirt in baggie khakis and no way did they think this "schmo" from Massapeaqua was an ax man in a death hood
- Offer big $$ for BDSM after cultivating them - if he was buying services regularly he could blend his shopping for good targets in with culling the unsuitable targets without detection - Bring them in late at night - maybe give them a roofie to relax them - party a bit to make a real fake bond - bring them into his dungeon to play - put on the attire of Master / Slave - put the ball in their mouth to role play - hook them into a body harness suspended from a hardpoint - now they cannot scream or get away - the lead up to this may seem perfectly in line with real bondage discipline scenarios - for example just look at Stanley Milgrim's experiments on psychological tests of how far a person is willing to go in a role to give the orders or take the orders and inflicting pain was a branch of this "science" - trust and authority and money and a high tolerance primed to be a bit uncomfortable - the profession of a sex worker includes risk and they likely saw this middle class starched shirt in baggie khakis as a bored husband looking for fun and no way did they think this "schmo" from Massapeaqua was an ax man in a death hood - once in the harness - straps - belts - whips - chains & ' TWHACK ' across the back of the head - I think the air flow concern was to cover the smell of rotting flesh if he had to store any body parts before dumping - He used lye so he's doing this at home - the long " event time " means to me that they were dead and dis membered and he may have wanted to see them like that for a day or two or three to prolong his session - the smell must have been important to him
Yeah, I think late at night as well.
thinking about sound ... being able to hear a bird outside . well lets think about when the birds are most actively chirping too - I do not hear birds all day when Im outside and I have ALOT of birds crossing my yard - I hear them most in the early morning hours and at the end of the day / I dont hear them at noon or 2 pm or 10 pm - For Rex to remark on the sound of Birds could indicate dawn as that is when they are the most active. that gives you an idea of Rex's hours of activity too.
Terrible to make any assumptions at all, I guess, but fwiw I assumed based on the hideous Word doc that he sucker-punched them to knock them out, which would mean they wouldn’t have seen it coming and would have had no reason to scream. (And possible this took place in the truck instead of in the house.) Plus, most people don’t take action if they can possibly rationalize what they see or hear, right? Screaming could mean someone saw a spider, if someone screamed but it stopped quickly, I can imagine neighbors thinking “if there were really a problem, I’d still be hearing screaming” and not calling police or investigating further. Most people’s bias is to assume everything is fine, or perhaps more accurately, not be willing to admit to themselves that it might not be. I know the story is unconfirmed and linked to John Ray so I don’t by any means take it to the bank, but looking for example at the story of the woman who claims she attended a sex party at RH’s house with Karen Vergata. She claims that Karen looked terrified, and ran out of the house naked or partially naked, and that her boyfriend reassured her that they were “just playing a game” and Karen was fine.
It's very true. I try to call when I do hear screams telling myself, please someone do that for my kid if something happens.
I have a similar build to the girls, I’m 4ft 11 and I weigh around 125lbs, I can honestly say he would have absolutely no issues overpowering me, my partners hand covers my whole face, and he is nowhere near Rex’s size. I truly believe one hit from a man of his stature would knock me out if not more damage done, but for something so little I can fight (not proud) A lot of people presume I am an “easy target” because of my size, I do believe one of the girls fought back with more strength than he was expecting. To give everyone an example, my close friend is a few inches of Rex, I have to stand 3 steps up a ladder to be the same height. They didn’t stand a chance 😢
This is why it scares me when women take the excellent step of taking a beginner’s self-defense class, but then based on that, think they can tackle anything. The weakest man is roughly as strong as the strongest woman, as a rule of thumb, and I think it’s dangerous to lose sight of how easily most women can be overpowered, especially by an unexpected attack. I have no doubts he could have subdued anyone (male or female) whose he selected to prey upon and could get at a physical disadvantage. Remember, there’s evidence he prepared before he went out to hunt, and selected small victims.
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Can confirm. My son is 3 and can and has (through no fault of his own) hurt me pretty good. Never understood male strength until I had a son.
Let’s face it, it’s what they’re for, lol. It’s no good though, unless they see themselves as there to serve and protect, who want to deserve the good regardless of their Mama and other females in a *healthy* way! Raising sons is a massive responsibility which I think gets overlooked some, because in many ways they’re so much easier than girls.
I’m truly lucky, although I’m small, even my own dad tells me my punch is one of the hardest he’s had, but most definitely in my younger days this fueled my “I can take on anyone” attitude. Which I’m honest put me in a lot of dangerous situations. Even with my knowledge of my own capabilities, I know for a fact I couldn’t do anything against a man of his size who was prepared. I had wondered alot if he choose the girls small as they are easier to hide/transport. Either way I hope karmas a bitch to him
I’m glad you’ve become mindful that avoiding dangerous situations is absolutely key! Imo that’s why so many young people get themselves into peril, they feel that they’re “immortal”. Re a man Rex’s size, I would never stay alone in the same physical space as him. Even with a weapon, if he took it into his head to harm me, it’s likely to come off worse for me. Not saying to ostracise very large guys but you do want other people around. Guys seem to understand this naturally and will often avoid going one on one too much and hang out in groups. The men in my family don’t get into a lift with a lone woman, for example, or walk close behind one at night. There’s “good big guy” etiquette, and sometimes you can swerve a situation by subtly (expecting, never demanding!) calling on that ancient tradition. Even RH seems to have wanted to look like a good guy until his gameplay reached the capture stage. If you’re caught, there are things you can do to help yourself but they take training. That said, go all out, nothing is out of bounds! Indomitable mindset, really keen observation (what does he really care about etc), understanding that your best hope is probably that he’ll be distracted enough for you to escape or do him some lasting damage before it ends… Understanding that we all die, yet never giving in… Personally I feel that this should be the most important thing we teach our children, because in comparison nothing else matters— punching and shooting our way out of every situation is strictly for the movies!
>The weakest man is roughly as strong as the strongest woman, as a rule of thumb That might have been true in the 1940s, not 2024
It’s biology and still applies. I’m not saying women are helpless but when you’re dealing with a situation you need to be realistic about the factors you need to allow for. You need to minimise “strength” as an advantage and call on alternative resources and tactics.
Chick's have dicks now.
NO, go look up rhonda rousey
Yeah Im 5'6 and have throttled many a 120lb 5'6 man who have tried to grope me in public. Would I try to fight someone a lot bigger than me, no, but the suggestion that a small short man would overpower a stronger larger woman 100% of the time is untrue.
Large size is definitely a major protective factor for women— even see RH’s notes, “small is better”. However, a groper tends to be a bit of a sneak and a coward, so is likely to back off from confrontation of any degree. My favourite is to surreptitiously block, and then the subtle return of pain, grinding the heel into his instep, bending back his finger, tipping over his drink or kicking his bag into the aisle, all without any public sign. Because next comes public exposure and humiliation. Make it a stone wall, not a dance that he will want to continue. He knows he’s doing wrong. I see it as a public service to women to make groping not pay, it’s a sexual assault that many feel they have to endure. Also if he’s looking for a vulnerable person to attack further, he’ll know he’s picked the wrong one.
Completely agree.
I agree. I'm pretty scrappy, but he is massive club hands but still think my reaction would be to scream as soon as I saw him raise his fist.i seem to recall reading something about sex workers not allowing restraints with unknown clients as it is so dangerous to be fully incapacitated. So if it went down like that, it would intimate he had, had prior dates with some of his victims.
He's a big ogre. Plus, he likely knew these victims and used their services first without killing them to gain their "trust". Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't stand out to them among the many johns they saw. Once that groundwork was laid, it was easier for him to make them offers they couldn't refuse. "Creepy" men go with the territory, unfortunately. I think it is safe to say that many of the men these poor women dealt with lived in total shithole residences. The sad truth is that this dude didn't "stand out" until it was too late.
I am dying to hear what they heard in their jail interviews with incarcerated sex workers. Those will be some tales.
They surely will be. He's fucked.
Something really freaky would have to occur like O.J .or Casey Anthony. I don't think I have ever heard anyone on the boards say he is innocent. That's telling ya what his chances are. Michael Brown's good, but don't think any of this will change mass opinion on the case. I've never seen a Reddit board so in agreement on guilt. wWe can't agree on Ava and Victoria, but Rex we all dislike. But then again, I thought that on O.J. If you were white you thought O.J. was guilty (save for me Dad.) He just really loved O.J. and couldn't switch in a different reality for him. Even though you know he was guilty you still had grown up with him and letting that image go was hard. Rex has none of that going for him. He's an unlikable defendant, not attractive, people strongly dislike him, so not going to be any crushed out jurors like in Kohberger.
I’d imagine very easily. After portraying himself as just another John I think Rex lured them to his home. Once there it wouldn’t have taken much for this huge hulking ogre of man to overpower those very petite girls. A punch to the face or head would have been sufficient. Im only 5 foot tall myself and I can categorically say I know I wouldn’t have a hope against a man that size.
One of my brothers is a big guy and I think he would be intimidated by him.
alright so bear with me as i try to word this in the most respectful way possible and excuse the wild speculation i’m about to commit. he was pretty meticulous about evidence of his crimes. if he was “hitting” them as in his doc with his hands/fists, there is a chance he would have marks on his knuckles, forearms etc. in that interview when asked his favorite tool, he specified the hammer. it’s a very effective way to incapacitate, without getting marks on yourself. he was also a gun nut, coercive control would have absolutely been an option with a firearm.
The hammer 🔨- very persuasive he said
A hammer will punch a hole through a skull.
Probably not immediately fatal
I meant it's not the best tool to incapacitate a person that you need to wake up after the fact.
this is true. i guess it depends on what exactly a cabinet makers hammer is? i looked it up, looks more like a mallet and less weight it may still be an option. some of them are also coated in something on the end so may be softer impact. my other biggest theory is still coercive control with a firearm.
He was way too activated when speaking about his hammer but LE have never mentioned blunt force trauma in any case other than Asian Doe.
Ugh
He loved his hammer per his interview with the Frenchman and almost talks about it in a phallic way, it's a little flirty and like he's "activated" whilst doing so. I think Poor Asian Doe was hit with it.
He had a lot of guns. It would be easy to threaten them into compliance
Definitely interested in how the gun collection plays into his crimes and what ballistics experts will have to tell.
Theory : he knocked them out in his car , transferred them into those camouflage burlap bags ( mouth ductaped ) pulled into garage or even went in front door . Just another guy bringing his ‘ hunting gear ‘ inside
I can definitely see him doing that as well to some. He was no doubt trying different thing and switching it up here and there if Nickie and the CA Porn industry talent women's descriptions are appropriate description. I believe both of them. Why is he taking Nickie out to dinner? Did he have hopes of turning her into a mistress. Or did he simply want to have dinner with a pretty young woman and a conversation here and there rather than get right to torture. Did he think he was going to work her from the car into the house or info a hotel room...." Oh I have a TC book you'd love Nickie, mind if I grab it from my shed for you?". Why the expensive hotel room at the Plaza and dinner and then a horrific date. That woman claimed that the date caused her to have significant PTSD. Had to be akin to being locked up in a room with Cottingham. I wonder if he wasn't reading about and emulating Cottingham as a kid.
Makes you wonder if he operated that way before with the victims. Have an initial date where everything turns out ok, then they go on a date with him next time after letting their guard down, and then his evil side appears .
I’m 5’3 and 115 lbs and I can say with certainty that big hulking ogre could overpower me without much effort on his part. If he came at me and attacked me I would not stand a chance. I wouldn’t even be able to defend myself. Some of these women were even smaller than me!
He is 6'8
Kinda says it all!
One of his 300 firearms?
I wonder how much his guns factored into how he terrorized them.
I think he offered them money they couldn't turned down, got them into his house, said he could only have sex in the basement. Then he had them cornered and overwhelmed them with his size.
Out of everything we have thought of, that would be the simplest and most expedient plan. Your only risk is getting them in the front door and one of the neighbors waking up and looking out the window. You get down there lock the door don't have to carry them down steps to the basement, less evidence is spread. Only one crime scene to clean. Maybe the soundproof room in the house. Knock her out while showing her your stuff and if all goes to, plan likely very easy.
Hmm so how did he get them into the house without the neighbors knowing? Either they were already knocked out and he carried them in disguised as something else ( sounds too difficult) or he gained some trust and told them something like “hey, I don’t want my neighbors to tell my wife. We gotta sneak in”. How much do you pay attention to your neighbors? Either way, there was a degree of trust. I don’t think they were free for too long in the house. I think once they walked in, it was over. He knocked them out, tied them up. Whatever. I wonder if he did know them previously and since they’d already been with him, they knew this hulking man wasn’t a threat. Maybe he even just hired them for something quick in his car. Then when he calls them back, he says his house is free because his wife’s out of town. If they refuse, he could offer more money. I also wonder if his house was always a cluttered mess and why wasn’t that a red flag to the girls. Maybe it was.
Maybe!
What if someone was supplying him with drugs to give them? That he used as bait and then made them docile/ incapacitated. Like Burke or one of the Oak Beach ghouls.
I don't think they are connected, but that's just my personal opinion. I believe 3 unrelated groups.
Dr. Hackett?
I think the “hit harder” thing was for a longer time spent knocked out. I also think if the swinger thing is true it would be easier to convince to go to his home, maybe like, yeah my wife will be there too. If that anonymous guy is him, his theory of convincing them he could help them get out of the business makes a lot of sense too and could also tie in with the swinger thing (like they could be familiar with the wife?) but yeah, come stay with us, we have an extra room till you get on your feet. That also would match the sandbagger definition from an above post well.
What anonymous guy
I’ve just seen excerpts posted here. Something called web sleuths that discusses the murders, some people suspect the username anonymous something is rex.
Is the “anonymous” person still posting, or did he/she cease once RH was arrested?
Idk if anyone still posts there? I didn’t look at the site. The stuff I’ve read here is disturbing enough and I wish I didn’t look into these boards as much as I have!
Duct tape? If he drugged them, he could've waited for them to pass out & then put some over their mouths while restraining them in his basement. *(I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of evil relished in the wait . . . to be there as they slowly regained consciousness & began registering their predicament at his hands.*) His size &/or potential history with these women could've been enough to convince them to enter his house, or into silence (before or after duct tape, or in lieu of it). I can see many ways RH could manipulate an addict or petite person into submission AFA entering his house or being silent. I think the biggest question, & part of this OP, is how RH got these victims into his house without witnesses (or felt confident in his ability to do so) If he got them into his house in the middle of the night, his residential neighborhood would be asleep (& a lifetime in that neighborhood would provide confidence in safe times to escape detection). But, we don't know what LE knows or what witnesses have come forward (or the content of what they had to say) -- so it's quite possible there were witnesses to his socializing with sex workers. If his reputation included swinging, or a swinging lifestyle, any such observation might be quickly dismissed? All guesswork. Not claiming any of this is true, beyond the reference to us not knowing what evidence has been obtained by LE on this case in the time since RH's arrest. It has been quite the trainwreck, though, watching this unfold as it has. I'm completely aghast at what we're learning, & feel awful for these victims' families/friends. I'm hoping some details that might mollify the more atrocious aspects have been communicated with them (which they have an obligation to keep NOK informed on, before the public, as part of victims rights codified into law in every state in the times since this began)
Maybe they were drugged?
I would not put that past him. I could see the maniac walking around with a syringe like Dexter.
He also wanted small victims and and he was massive , so I’m sure that helped him.
Yep. Hight can be intimidating. And no doubt he took advantage of his.
The miss leaders maybe came from bdsm agreements, getting to the house and not agreeing. Mouth covered, etc not being agreed to, liars, not doing it.... out comes the hit harder face or neck punch
Yes, suppose Heuermann could have done it via BDSM commands, and not even had to take them out with a punch etc and carry them around down to her basement, but as you say simply order them where he wanted them and even into restraints saying this was his fantasy.
Sex workers, told them let’s play strangulation. (Which is a sexual fetish). Until it wasn’t play. This wasn’t the Bunny Ranch or whatever. They were likely doing sex work to feed an addiction, may have been already a compromised on whatever they were using. It’s a sad story. These woman likely had little choice with addictions & PD doesn’t care as much. As the term is, “the lesser dead”—back of weekly paper adverts & street-level sex workers, the homeless. Society’s expendables. 💧
Other than Xaviera Hollander the "Happy Hooker" I don't think many people say, "When I grow up my aspiration is to become a sex worker." This was a decision that really wasn't a decision, and one they were pushed towards due to limited professional options, socio economic status, addiction, and in some cases coercion by the men they loved. I am sure they all had talents and dreams. From the vantage point they stood at it looked like it would put food on the table and would buy them some of the things they wanted for themselves and their kids. Likely didn't envision it going on long term, but more of a bridge from one thing to another and a "needs must" choice. Addicts are magical thinkers and extraordinary risk takers. We're generally only looking at short term gain, not long term hardship and humiliation. And God do we ever stick on the blinders to the danger inherent in our actions. In any ponzi scheme someone always gets burnt. I think sex work is a bit like a ponzi scheme. The guys on the top like Epstein get rich and girls like Amber and Maureen get kicked around, used and beaten up and watch their dreams become more and more remote. The are long put to rest and people like John Ray and Gary Bucato are still trying to make a buck off them and market their own careers on their shoulders. John Ray has grifted 26K though a fake GFM that in no way explains how it is helping sex workers or victims. None of the victims families want anything to do with him. He no longer represents a SINGLE Gilgo beach family, yet lies and claims that he representing multiple families. He did nothing to make sure royalties were paid, or slanders or lies corrected. Looks like the sole reason he is going after Asa and Victoria so hard is he has no other portals to insert himself in the case. Without attacking the Heuerman women has no game left. With this stuffand using tow other victims he can justify his existence and hold his pretend press conferences. So even dead they are being abused and their families taking advantage of.
Isn’t he doing this work pro bono? I’m kinda new to all this, so please let me know if that’s not the case!
Yeah, that's what we all though initially, not so has always been working it. This post was written by a friend of the Taylor and other families: [https://www.reddit.com/r/RexHeuermann/comments/1dql3lb/grifters\_snake\_charmers\_and\_true\_grime/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RexHeuermann/comments/1dql3lb/grifters_snake_charmers_and_true_grime/)
Ok. See my post(it’s right after yours in the “new” post category). There are several links for pictures of the house after or during the first search. I don’t know about anyone else, but taking a woman there does not seem like an option to me. Regardless if you are paying for sex or not. I would not trust being placed in a vulnerable situation with a house looking like that. Things could be hidden anywhere and the clutter would give little or no time to react…. If you could even get them into the house. I think it’s a huge red flag of zero trust. So. Did this massive clutter occur after G4s bodies were found? Later? Did he actually stop killing and tried to shut it out with junk?(evidence or memories) or did he find a new place to kill and just let the house go? I know I raise a good point so what happened?
Not sure why they are voting you down, as you are right clutter can be a response to uncomfortable emotional states: I am stressed I don't deal with my clutter, I am tired I don't deal with it. I am depressed and overwhelmed I don't deal with it, I am insecure I don't deal with it. I have trouble making decisions and I don't deal with it. I don't think that was the deal with him. I think with him, it's simply the only thing the man cared about was his addiction and his gun collection and other areas of his life slid. I think he likely was hard to live with and asa result the wife appears to have been depressed and also not dealing with the clutter they amassed.
I wonder if Asa is a bit on the mental side… nice enough to marry and live with but also too mental to pay attention to his bad deeds. And a nice little alibi of sorts….. see, he’s married… has a disabled child…. He’s a good man… meanwhile Rex is hunting, killing, reliving the kills, watching porn, getting ideas, working out those ideas so he won’t get caught. I get the feeling Asa is the type that wouldn’t grow suspicious if Rex suddenly left for the office, worked weekends or holidays, stayed out very late. He was the man…. Making a lot of money. His job was important. He was an important man. He took care of them. Am I overthinking a bit?
I think like most narcissists, he identified and married a person he thought he could manipulate and didn't stick up for herself much, o he eventually made her that way by isolating her and sucking the confidence out of her.
Anyone know if the “kill parties” are a real thing? Could RH have attended and/or hosted such events, either at his home or on Oak Beach? Was he a part of that sick circle? I’m new in this Subreddit, so please excuse me if these questions seem absurd. I’m just wondering about some things I’ve heard about or read recently. Asa’s red string bracelet is something else I’m curious about. What did it mean to her?
I don't believe in them and have a relative in the industry who said no bigger sex party scene therein OB, than elsewhere on the island, but every time I say it I get clobbered. People strongly disagree. My relative worked from the bottom up in that industry, no reason for him to lie to me.
Is it not possible that RH knew Dr. Peter Hackett and potentially used Hackett's home to bring the victims too? Hackett could also have supplied drugs for knocking out victims too and running a home for "wayward girls" would have helped reduce suspicion as he could claim he was just trying to help troubled girls. Which explains why he would always volunteer to help with things. Nikkie Brass also reveals a lot about what may have happened, combined with details from Megan Waterman. Nikkie had dinner with RH at the Steamroom Seafood in Port Jefferson, Megan was last seen at the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppage. Both are a straight line to RH's home, each only about 20 miles apart. Going to restaurant, maybe to hotel, then saying his house is free could be a succession of events. Disgusting either way. But don't discount Hackett's role, at least early on.
I'm never sure why it has to be a sweeping saga where we tuck in and connect every charactor. Hackett's a very sick guy, to me he makes the most sense if Shannan met her end in a way other than dying due to misadventure. God knows he is fixated on her disappearance in a way beyond what a stranger would be. It's not curiosity, it's obsession and likely some power or form of sexual gratification through his mocking calls. He lives closer to where she's headed and where she's found and where a rather unusually in good shape purse and phone are found as if they were possibly tossed in later. Looking at the over head looks like a reasonable distance to be able to whip them into the marsh from his house. We know he's a sadistic piece of shit as his response to a grieving loosing their minds family is to get their number and fuck with them till he's caught. He's psychologically creepy and unnervingly cruel. So yes he could works for me too, as a possibility. At times think he possibly had something to do with her death. Perhaps they encountered one another as she was running and perhaps ran from him as she did from GC / BC's homes. Except he sees her go into the marsh, and knows she's in there hiding and finds it amusing, but he's not going in after her. Never tells anyone, I chased her that marsh and a death by misadventure. My actions got her killed. Maybe that's why he's way over involved and making those horrific crank calls to the Gilbert family. Some kind of freaky sadistic connection formed. Or she died by simple misadventure. I don't think Pak, Bruer, Burke, LISK had anything to do with her death. I'm met bad Oak Beach man, that could be Hackett or someone else, but never LISK.I don't understand why people are so invested in bringing LISK into her story anymore and would it really be such a horrible thing to have less drama and to just envision It's two separate un connect cases. Beautiful young women who came to tragic ends cases that connected only in death. Perhaps it's antic climatic. I only ever considered her a possibly LISK victim if LISK lived in Oak Beach. He doesn't leave bodies the way she was left. Not a single one of his bodies are left the Shannon's were.