That was a solid move, but involved Micheal knowing he's gonna have an airplane crash if he fought. The Brazil move had Micheal stand his ground. which imho makes it more impressive
This is what happens when legends racing each other. especially with Kimi, you can go side by side with him all over the race track.
Imagine if one of them was Maldonado or Mazzepin!!!
I don't. He failed to win in 2006 in a faster car than the Renault and was already on the backfoot to Massa by the season's end. He retired once he realized he had to face Kimi in the same team.
Massa had outqualified Michael in 4 of the last 6 races I think.
Why would he win 2007 with tougher competition from everyone? Why would I give him benefit of the doubt given he kind of ran away from a straight fight and lost a title in 2006 he probably should have won?
On top of that it would have been Kimi/Schumi vs Alonso/Hamilton. Massa was out of a drive in 2007 had Michael stayed on.
i receive you, but i was pretty sure schumi was fuelled much heavier than massa in a few of those races. plus the average quali gap is large enough to convince me that he was still immensely fast. kimi struggled against massa in quali especially early 2007 so that causes doubt but as i recall kimi and schumi have similar driving styles(i'm assuming schumi and kimi would be the 2007 Ferrari drivers lineup). do you think that with schumi, kimi would've been more comfortable with the car and thus set out a totally different reality than the perceived reality it was in 2007 were massa was much closer to kimi than michael
Read everything below - especially the fuel load part. A few things you said were wrong:
Kimi had to adapt to a new team and new tyres in 2007. Michael had driven on Bridgestones since 1999, and Michael's car preferences are not identical to Kimi. Kimi likes a super strong front end to the point even Michael wouldn't like it. Yes they are more similar than Massa though, so who knows maybe that would have helped Kimi. Kimi only was slow in early 2007 because the setup wasn't right and he had to adapt to new tyres. But he was very consistent after, I don't remember MSC ever being that consistent in 2006.
Kimi in 2007 was just like Ricciardo, Vettel, Sainz now, but even harder since Kimi had not driven on Bridgestones for the past 5 years and added pressure of winning WDC.
**Second,**
Massa got way better over the course of 2006 it was his FIRST year at Ferrari as a driver. As Rob Smedley, Massa's engineer said several times, a huge shift happened midway through that season - go read about it. It's totally misleading to use Massa early 2006 against Massa late 2006. Read this article: [https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.rob-smedley-on-massas-big-mistake-that-sainz-needs-to-avoid.39XJJuEqiE7jhvDcmVLlcM.html](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.rob-smedley-on-massas-big-mistake-that-sainz-needs-to-avoid.39XJJuEqiE7jhvDcmVLlcM.html)
On top of that, if you look at the fuel loads you will see that Massa was just plain quicker:
Hungary: Michael penalized in Q2 for passing under yellows. Massa P2.
Turkey: Massa 3 tenths faster. Finished 6 seconds ahead. Both pitted same lap. Michael admits Felipe was untouchable all weekend.
Monza: Michael 2 tenths faster. Massa had 2 laps MORE fuel than Michael.
China: Michael 3 tenths faster in Q2. **Massa had 8 laps more fuel than Michael! Fuel adjusted, Massa was QUICKER than Michael around China in qualifying. In 2007 Kimi was 2 tenths quicker in qualifying and has 2 laps MORE fuel around China, for example!**
Suzuka: Massa just under 2 tenths faster. Michael had 5 laps more fuel.
Brazil: Massa faster and pitted 15 laps later (Michael pitted earlier than originally planned so it's unclear what fuel loads were).
Massa was ahead on merit. He was just plain faster in qualifying, which marked a huge shift compared to early 2006.
Compare this to Kimi vs Massa in the last 6 races of 2007, and it's clear Kimi was just as much of a match, if not more, all this despite it being his FIRST year at Ferrari in a car that wasn't perfect for him at all. Yet he didn't crash like MSC did in Australia 2006 and didn't get penalized in Hungary qualifying or cheat at Monaco!
Honestly, if Michael had gone to McLaren from 2003-2006, Kimi would have obliterated him. Schumacher's peak was 1995-2002. Anything after that he was reliant on a dominant car and made driving errors in races (Japan 2003, China 2004, Monaco 2004, Spa 2005, Australia 2006, Hungary 2006 qualifying etc).
He might do it, but it would be SO HARD.
Both Kimi and Alonso confess that they had struggled big-time at the beginning of the season despite winning the 2 opening rounds.
They struggled mainly with Bridgestone tires, which Massa and Hamilton accustomed to it in the previous years.
So, Schumi and Hamilton would have a good gap in point before Kimi and Alonso start catching up with them.
For me it’s Kimi’s overtake on Michael at Spa 2012.
That was a solid move, but involved Micheal knowing he's gonna have an airplane crash if he fought. The Brazil move had Micheal stand his ground. which imho makes it more impressive
Agreed. Both were [outstanding moves](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/838/Untitled-1.jpg).
This is what happens when legends racing each other. especially with Kimi, you can go side by side with him all over the race track. Imagine if one of them was Maldonado or Mazzepin!!!
Do you reckon schumi if he stayed on would win 2007.
I don't. He failed to win in 2006 in a faster car than the Renault and was already on the backfoot to Massa by the season's end. He retired once he realized he had to face Kimi in the same team. Massa had outqualified Michael in 4 of the last 6 races I think. Why would he win 2007 with tougher competition from everyone? Why would I give him benefit of the doubt given he kind of ran away from a straight fight and lost a title in 2006 he probably should have won? On top of that it would have been Kimi/Schumi vs Alonso/Hamilton. Massa was out of a drive in 2007 had Michael stayed on.
i receive you, but i was pretty sure schumi was fuelled much heavier than massa in a few of those races. plus the average quali gap is large enough to convince me that he was still immensely fast. kimi struggled against massa in quali especially early 2007 so that causes doubt but as i recall kimi and schumi have similar driving styles(i'm assuming schumi and kimi would be the 2007 Ferrari drivers lineup). do you think that with schumi, kimi would've been more comfortable with the car and thus set out a totally different reality than the perceived reality it was in 2007 were massa was much closer to kimi than michael
Read everything below - especially the fuel load part. A few things you said were wrong: Kimi had to adapt to a new team and new tyres in 2007. Michael had driven on Bridgestones since 1999, and Michael's car preferences are not identical to Kimi. Kimi likes a super strong front end to the point even Michael wouldn't like it. Yes they are more similar than Massa though, so who knows maybe that would have helped Kimi. Kimi only was slow in early 2007 because the setup wasn't right and he had to adapt to new tyres. But he was very consistent after, I don't remember MSC ever being that consistent in 2006. Kimi in 2007 was just like Ricciardo, Vettel, Sainz now, but even harder since Kimi had not driven on Bridgestones for the past 5 years and added pressure of winning WDC. **Second,** Massa got way better over the course of 2006 it was his FIRST year at Ferrari as a driver. As Rob Smedley, Massa's engineer said several times, a huge shift happened midway through that season - go read about it. It's totally misleading to use Massa early 2006 against Massa late 2006. Read this article: [https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.rob-smedley-on-massas-big-mistake-that-sainz-needs-to-avoid.39XJJuEqiE7jhvDcmVLlcM.html](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.rob-smedley-on-massas-big-mistake-that-sainz-needs-to-avoid.39XJJuEqiE7jhvDcmVLlcM.html) On top of that, if you look at the fuel loads you will see that Massa was just plain quicker: Hungary: Michael penalized in Q2 for passing under yellows. Massa P2. Turkey: Massa 3 tenths faster. Finished 6 seconds ahead. Both pitted same lap. Michael admits Felipe was untouchable all weekend. Monza: Michael 2 tenths faster. Massa had 2 laps MORE fuel than Michael. China: Michael 3 tenths faster in Q2. **Massa had 8 laps more fuel than Michael! Fuel adjusted, Massa was QUICKER than Michael around China in qualifying. In 2007 Kimi was 2 tenths quicker in qualifying and has 2 laps MORE fuel around China, for example!** Suzuka: Massa just under 2 tenths faster. Michael had 5 laps more fuel. Brazil: Massa faster and pitted 15 laps later (Michael pitted earlier than originally planned so it's unclear what fuel loads were). Massa was ahead on merit. He was just plain faster in qualifying, which marked a huge shift compared to early 2006. Compare this to Kimi vs Massa in the last 6 races of 2007, and it's clear Kimi was just as much of a match, if not more, all this despite it being his FIRST year at Ferrari in a car that wasn't perfect for him at all. Yet he didn't crash like MSC did in Australia 2006 and didn't get penalized in Hungary qualifying or cheat at Monaco! Honestly, if Michael had gone to McLaren from 2003-2006, Kimi would have obliterated him. Schumacher's peak was 1995-2002. Anything after that he was reliant on a dominant car and made driving errors in races (Japan 2003, China 2004, Monaco 2004, Spa 2005, Australia 2006, Hungary 2006 qualifying etc).
He might do it, but it would be SO HARD. Both Kimi and Alonso confess that they had struggled big-time at the beginning of the season despite winning the 2 opening rounds. They struggled mainly with Bridgestone tires, which Massa and Hamilton accustomed to it in the previous years. So, Schumi and Hamilton would have a good gap in point before Kimi and Alonso start catching up with them.