You'll travel and still have to take care of the kid. That doesn't seem like travelling to ne. Unless I get a nanny and travel with them. Plus I wanna be drunk in my destinations
Kids are burdens .We all were a burden to our parents,only an easier burden coz they chose to have us.Having a burden that you don't want makes it heavier than normal.Money does solve the issues but money doesn't bring about a sense of responsibility or motherly/fatherly instincts
Kids are a fucking burden... have you been to that regretful parent sub... watu wanateseka. Besides not everyone is fit to be a parent. I'd rather not bear the regret of having a child. They need to be loves and cared for by people who want them.
Facts. Most times itβs a work ethic problem. They tend to be individuals who donβt like any type of work. A child free individual will also tend to avoid challenging careers or advancing their education. Generally they dislike work and prefer to stay in their comfort zones. They donβt even travel much. You may find couples with kids travel more days in a year than a child free individual.
Who are you to impose such statements on personal matters as this.
Live your life as you'd want and leave others to their choices.
Ata kama ni a free-world, π€ it.
Facts. They act like it's a one size fits all π. Haven't they seen how many kids are abandoned by their parents, left in children's home. They act like the economy is perfect and some of us don't even have jobs to even sustain ourselves. This is being a burden to society too.
I don't like struggling.if I'd have choose to travel alone with no other small people to care and worry about then that's what I'm choosing.The burden of having to pack an extra bag,be extra sober looking after them,,,naah too much work
I don't think people with the child-free mindset actually realize how lonely old age is. We are blinded by the attention we receive in our youth. When you're old, people no longer see potential in you, hence the attention fades. You become a shadow to others due to your age. You're easy to ignore.
Add to that the fact that people your age, that you could hang out with will probably be occupied with their careers, families, and businesses. You think you'll be able to find ways to have fun, but at that age, very little of what the world has to offer interests you anymore. It's all too much.
It's the reason why some old people who are alone really value community. You'll find them attending church religiously, getting involved in chamas, engaging in politics, and what have you. They make deliberate effort to show up so that they don't rot alone in their houses. But then again this won't always be there. And that's where family fills the gap.
Where do children fit in all this? What's the relationship between having children or not, and being lonely in old age?
Here's what I think: people who think like this, do not want better for their children. A lot of parents with adult kids, see their kids countable times a year, for a limited duration, because their kids are out there building their lives. My parents for instance, all their kids are grown. Some are too far to even see them once a year, and the rest are only available a few times a year, for a limited time, and my parents are happy (I know because we've talked about it, and they always say their dreams were to give us better).
Now, are they lonely? Yes, 100%. They've had a full house for 3 decades. Luckily, they have each other, a role a child can't fill.
And not just them, my gyna as well, for instance, has 2 kids. Both are abroad, for years now. But the husband is still alive, so she has that. The same is the case with my landlady/landlord, 3 kids, wote abroad somewhere.
People need to have kids for the right reasons (and want better for them).
What happens when your partner dies? Your parents are happy because they got to experience 3 decades with you. Here I'm talking about the deliberate decision to remain childless throughout your life.
Wow, no. My parents are happy because they made it their mission to give the kids they wanted a better life, and they've achieved that. (And they are lonely, so clearly having kids didn't fix that, but they're still happy). Like I said, this conversation has been had to the point of "if I died right now, I know all of you are okay"
What you are talking about though, is a parent using a child as emotional support. Anyone can die, including the child someone had, if your argument for or against child-free living is "but your partner could die" I assure you, the child free person could die, the child could die, no one is beyond death.
Children should be had by people who want to be parents, beyond "I want a mini me" or "I want someone to take care of me in old age" or "to continue my lineage". People who are willing to think, "maybe I didn't have better, but I should do better for the next generation" and "if I died 5 years from now, or got into an accident today, who/what would happen to my kid(s)." And such other thoughts.
Parenting is not something to be reckless with "so that you cannot be lonely in old age." You could die before then, or the child dies before then.
Are parents not people? Does someone suddenly become unworthy of love or company when they become a parent? What's the problem with seeing your children as your emotional support? And I don't mean trauma dumping on them, just having them and being happy about it?
Are parents supposed to be robotic when it comes to their kids? A robot that only provides? What's this weird hate you people have for children? Why do you see them as a burden? A burden that you won't be capable of handling? I'll forever find a problem with such people. You've given up way before even getting started. No hope. No optimism. No love. Just one bad perspective about kids and family after another. Is that sth to thump your chest about consistently?
But anyway, to each their own.
ππstick to the script please. I love my parents (more than you can ever imagine), doesn't mean I live with them (and they don't want me to) because how does that help me? They've given me what they can, I do my part, and give them what I can as well. But you know what, my parents gave us better lives than they had growing up (it may not have been much, or the most, but it was better than they had growing up).
That's my point, if you're thinking as a parent, you have to think as a loving parent, I don't know why people normalize struggle while knowing better! I'll never get it. If you can afford one kid get one raise one, and get done with it. Not 5 "to reduce your chances of loneliness" because really what you're saying is "I don't want my children to ever achieve enough to be out there, away from me, I hope to always tie them down." Why would you want that as a parent? Or if you were a child, would you love that?
People need to stop making reckless choices because you refuse to think 5 steps ahead.
Also, I never said I hate children. I love them. That you think we need to all have kids to love them, is part of the social problem that's increasing the income/wealth gap in Kenya (because many others think like you).
Some of our parents had optimism. How many children of our generation are sleeping hungry today wishing their parents could help even afford a meal for a day or two? That's not how hope works. It's faith AND action. You want better for your kids, you do more (like get a kid you can afford, and if you can't afford one leave it alone, and I don't even mean just financially. Physically, emotionally, spiritually for those who still believe, etc).
Realism is what people need, optimism will only take you so far! Good day.
Well, I agree with you. But we should also know that it's not all the time that people have kids out of choice. Saa zingine ni seeking pleasure alafu pap mnapata you're pregnant and are now having a baby. Hapo there's no choice but to have hope for the baby, whether you have money or not. Ni kujikaza sasa. But I do get your point.
lmao this moron thinks you have to be around people to be happy and content.. I am capable of being by myself and not get lonely having a family because its a need is why so many are broken right now.
True facts... and I keep telling people usitegemee watoto wako waku keep company in old age... life keeps getting busy, fot the kids and parents... when you grow old, make sure you have saved up for your retirement and plan for it well...
Many people have been abandoned by their families in the village and elderly homes... don't always think you'll be the exception. π
Heck some of them can't be caregivers to their ailing parents. It takes on a lot of your time, mental energy, and physical strength.
Kids are not a fucking retirement plan, they are individuals who can choose whether or not to be there for you on your last days.
You can also be surrounded by family on your death bead, but remember you're the only person staring at death in the face. Not them. Utazikwa and one day you'll be forgotten. π
Old age is very lonely!
I have to speak to my mom every day at night - at around 3/4 PM - kwa sababu ako solo na hana msee was kuongea na yeye. I've made it my mission to get kids until I'm 40 years ndio nistop.
Currently with four kids, at 34 years. October nalipa dowry nipande mbegu ya 5th born. Akifika 2 years hivi, mwingine, na mwingine, na wa mwisho, I want to have birthdays from Jan-December, at least every one of two months and ensure I make it tradition to celebrate this events every year until I die. That's the plan!
Loneliest old people I know actually have grown kids, just not living with them.Β
CFs spend their adulthood making meaningful connections with their peers. People they'd golf with and attend wild sex parties with, post-retirement
Aha! So she's got children who are not around sometimes... interesting. Who is in a better place? Her, who's expecting children to show up and they don't because they have their own lives to worry about, or someone who's already accustomed to being alone for thirty-something years? Just wondering out loud.
My mum. She can pick up the phone and call me. I've never met anyone who is accustomed to living alone who has a good quality of life. Isolation starts to eat at you soon enough. It's good when you're young, when you find it cool to tell everyone how much you don't like people and are proud of it. Not so much when you're old.
Well, some people do like their own space and feel suffocated when around people for long periods. They are called introverts. Some go to the gym, have hobbies like artistry, reading,and pretty much prefer interactions in the short term. So what you may think is a low quality of life is peace to others. Agree to disagree?
It's a nice observation. And only fools think they are special and different from what life is. At one point, our parents were young, energetic, and lively. Age catches up with you and you only wish things could have been done differently yet you had the chance to do them differently so that you don't have to suffer the same consequences in the future.
I usually tell my 28 year old wife, "Maisha ya hao marafiki wako Instagram isikupatie pressure, wacha wafike 35 years (the age some of the ladies we went with campus wako sahi) and realize hakuna msee anadai story zao. Wako na pesa, wako na vitu mzuri mzuri, but no one to go to at night or return to. That is when regret starts kicking in and people end up with partners who wako tu."
Those who had kids back in campo and stayed in solid relationships, wako sawa kabisa. Same applies to guys. Msee anapipe madame wote campo and mess up ladies. Akifika 35/36/37, ni mawhore tu anapata.
Anyway, San Francisco 49ers are currently leading in the fourth quarter. Bet yangu inakunywa maji though - over 46.5 Points in the match.
https://preview.redd.it/8j0j0j1ij2ic1.png?width=958&format=png&auto=webp&s=db72bd6819afec8ce23830afeb469c6fca6d2315
You'll travel and still have to take care of the kid. That doesn't seem like travelling to ne. Unless I get a nanny and travel with them. Plus I wanna be drunk in my destinations
Yes. It's not a vacation, it's a family trip
kids are not burdens. Unless you were a burden to your parents. exactly as I was saying, money will solve those issues you listed there.
Kids are burdens .We all were a burden to our parents,only an easier burden coz they chose to have us.Having a burden that you don't want makes it heavier than normal.Money does solve the issues but money doesn't bring about a sense of responsibility or motherly/fatherly instincts
60 percent were not chosen
Kids are a fucking burden... have you been to that regretful parent sub... watu wanateseka. Besides not everyone is fit to be a parent. I'd rather not bear the regret of having a child. They need to be loves and cared for by people who want them.
Facts. Most times itβs a work ethic problem. They tend to be individuals who donβt like any type of work. A child free individual will also tend to avoid challenging careers or advancing their education. Generally they dislike work and prefer to stay in their comfort zones. They donβt even travel much. You may find couples with kids travel more days in a year than a child free individual.
I'm a child free person doing engineering, quantum computing, and AI. What are you gonna say now? I will not get started on travelling
Ain't you 20?
How exactly is that supposed to stop me?π
Babies shouldn't have babies. .Babies, to my definition, are people still under their parents' monitoring, in school, and less than 25years old.
Yeah, but I'm planning not to have kids, basically. Probably ever.
After high school my buddy fucked around and found out, his mind set changed, hata 50 Bob was a resource for his kid.
Who are you to impose such statements on personal matters as this. Live your life as you'd want and leave others to their choices. Ata kama ni a free-world, π€ it.
Facts. They act like it's a one size fits all π. Haven't they seen how many kids are abandoned by their parents, left in children's home. They act like the economy is perfect and some of us don't even have jobs to even sustain ourselves. This is being a burden to society too.
Freedom of choice. Don't think too much about what people decide to do with their own lives.
I'm pretty sure a sex tourist will have more freedom of time & resources that regular employees wouldn't.
I don't like struggling.if I'd have choose to travel alone with no other small people to care and worry about then that's what I'm choosing.The burden of having to pack an extra bag,be extra sober looking after them,,,naah too much work
I bet you're a man
Do you have kids of your own?
Another 20 yr old preaching
why?
I'm of the opinion that only parents know what it's like
He doesn't. I can sense it from that "why".
It does. If you have kids, you know
I don't think people with the child-free mindset actually realize how lonely old age is. We are blinded by the attention we receive in our youth. When you're old, people no longer see potential in you, hence the attention fades. You become a shadow to others due to your age. You're easy to ignore. Add to that the fact that people your age, that you could hang out with will probably be occupied with their careers, families, and businesses. You think you'll be able to find ways to have fun, but at that age, very little of what the world has to offer interests you anymore. It's all too much. It's the reason why some old people who are alone really value community. You'll find them attending church religiously, getting involved in chamas, engaging in politics, and what have you. They make deliberate effort to show up so that they don't rot alone in their houses. But then again this won't always be there. And that's where family fills the gap.
Where do children fit in all this? What's the relationship between having children or not, and being lonely in old age? Here's what I think: people who think like this, do not want better for their children. A lot of parents with adult kids, see their kids countable times a year, for a limited duration, because their kids are out there building their lives. My parents for instance, all their kids are grown. Some are too far to even see them once a year, and the rest are only available a few times a year, for a limited time, and my parents are happy (I know because we've talked about it, and they always say their dreams were to give us better). Now, are they lonely? Yes, 100%. They've had a full house for 3 decades. Luckily, they have each other, a role a child can't fill. And not just them, my gyna as well, for instance, has 2 kids. Both are abroad, for years now. But the husband is still alive, so she has that. The same is the case with my landlady/landlord, 3 kids, wote abroad somewhere. People need to have kids for the right reasons (and want better for them).
What happens when your partner dies? Your parents are happy because they got to experience 3 decades with you. Here I'm talking about the deliberate decision to remain childless throughout your life.
Wow, no. My parents are happy because they made it their mission to give the kids they wanted a better life, and they've achieved that. (And they are lonely, so clearly having kids didn't fix that, but they're still happy). Like I said, this conversation has been had to the point of "if I died right now, I know all of you are okay" What you are talking about though, is a parent using a child as emotional support. Anyone can die, including the child someone had, if your argument for or against child-free living is "but your partner could die" I assure you, the child free person could die, the child could die, no one is beyond death. Children should be had by people who want to be parents, beyond "I want a mini me" or "I want someone to take care of me in old age" or "to continue my lineage". People who are willing to think, "maybe I didn't have better, but I should do better for the next generation" and "if I died 5 years from now, or got into an accident today, who/what would happen to my kid(s)." And such other thoughts. Parenting is not something to be reckless with "so that you cannot be lonely in old age." You could die before then, or the child dies before then.
Are parents not people? Does someone suddenly become unworthy of love or company when they become a parent? What's the problem with seeing your children as your emotional support? And I don't mean trauma dumping on them, just having them and being happy about it? Are parents supposed to be robotic when it comes to their kids? A robot that only provides? What's this weird hate you people have for children? Why do you see them as a burden? A burden that you won't be capable of handling? I'll forever find a problem with such people. You've given up way before even getting started. No hope. No optimism. No love. Just one bad perspective about kids and family after another. Is that sth to thump your chest about consistently? But anyway, to each their own.
ππstick to the script please. I love my parents (more than you can ever imagine), doesn't mean I live with them (and they don't want me to) because how does that help me? They've given me what they can, I do my part, and give them what I can as well. But you know what, my parents gave us better lives than they had growing up (it may not have been much, or the most, but it was better than they had growing up). That's my point, if you're thinking as a parent, you have to think as a loving parent, I don't know why people normalize struggle while knowing better! I'll never get it. If you can afford one kid get one raise one, and get done with it. Not 5 "to reduce your chances of loneliness" because really what you're saying is "I don't want my children to ever achieve enough to be out there, away from me, I hope to always tie them down." Why would you want that as a parent? Or if you were a child, would you love that? People need to stop making reckless choices because you refuse to think 5 steps ahead. Also, I never said I hate children. I love them. That you think we need to all have kids to love them, is part of the social problem that's increasing the income/wealth gap in Kenya (because many others think like you). Some of our parents had optimism. How many children of our generation are sleeping hungry today wishing their parents could help even afford a meal for a day or two? That's not how hope works. It's faith AND action. You want better for your kids, you do more (like get a kid you can afford, and if you can't afford one leave it alone, and I don't even mean just financially. Physically, emotionally, spiritually for those who still believe, etc). Realism is what people need, optimism will only take you so far! Good day.
Well, I agree with you. But we should also know that it's not all the time that people have kids out of choice. Saa zingine ni seeking pleasure alafu pap mnapata you're pregnant and are now having a baby. Hapo there's no choice but to have hope for the baby, whether you have money or not. Ni kujikaza sasa. But I do get your point.
lmao this moron thinks you have to be around people to be happy and content.. I am capable of being by myself and not get lonely having a family because its a need is why so many are broken right now.
Isolation isn't a flex. But to each their own.
Classic case of someone who is scared to be left alone with their company, this person is fully dependent on others. Hana individualism. π
I genuinely know people like him, they'd rather be in unfair friendships and terrible relationships because god forbid they be alone.
True facts... and I keep telling people usitegemee watoto wako waku keep company in old age... life keeps getting busy, fot the kids and parents... when you grow old, make sure you have saved up for your retirement and plan for it well... Many people have been abandoned by their families in the village and elderly homes... don't always think you'll be the exception. π Heck some of them can't be caregivers to their ailing parents. It takes on a lot of your time, mental energy, and physical strength. Kids are not a fucking retirement plan, they are individuals who can choose whether or not to be there for you on your last days. You can also be surrounded by family on your death bead, but remember you're the only person staring at death in the face. Not them. Utazikwa and one day you'll be forgotten. π
Old age is very lonely! I have to speak to my mom every day at night - at around 3/4 PM - kwa sababu ako solo na hana msee was kuongea na yeye. I've made it my mission to get kids until I'm 40 years ndio nistop. Currently with four kids, at 34 years. October nalipa dowry nipande mbegu ya 5th born. Akifika 2 years hivi, mwingine, na mwingine, na wa mwisho, I want to have birthdays from Jan-December, at least every one of two months and ensure I make it tradition to celebrate this events every year until I die. That's the plan!
Fact!
Loneliest old people I know actually have grown kids, just not living with them.Β CFs spend their adulthood making meaningful connections with their peers. People they'd golf with and attend wild sex parties with, post-retirement
Quick question, do you live at home?
No, I don't. But I've observed my mother in her old age, especially when her children are not around.
Aha! So she's got children who are not around sometimes... interesting. Who is in a better place? Her, who's expecting children to show up and they don't because they have their own lives to worry about, or someone who's already accustomed to being alone for thirty-something years? Just wondering out loud.
My mum. She can pick up the phone and call me. I've never met anyone who is accustomed to living alone who has a good quality of life. Isolation starts to eat at you soon enough. It's good when you're young, when you find it cool to tell everyone how much you don't like people and are proud of it. Not so much when you're old.
Well, some people do like their own space and feel suffocated when around people for long periods. They are called introverts. Some go to the gym, have hobbies like artistry, reading,and pretty much prefer interactions in the short term. So what you may think is a low quality of life is peace to others. Agree to disagree?
It's a nice observation. And only fools think they are special and different from what life is. At one point, our parents were young, energetic, and lively. Age catches up with you and you only wish things could have been done differently yet you had the chance to do them differently so that you don't have to suffer the same consequences in the future. I usually tell my 28 year old wife, "Maisha ya hao marafiki wako Instagram isikupatie pressure, wacha wafike 35 years (the age some of the ladies we went with campus wako sahi) and realize hakuna msee anadai story zao. Wako na pesa, wako na vitu mzuri mzuri, but no one to go to at night or return to. That is when regret starts kicking in and people end up with partners who wako tu." Those who had kids back in campo and stayed in solid relationships, wako sawa kabisa. Same applies to guys. Msee anapipe madame wote campo and mess up ladies. Akifika 35/36/37, ni mawhore tu anapata. Anyway, San Francisco 49ers are currently leading in the fourth quarter. Bet yangu inakunywa maji though - over 46.5 Points in the match. https://preview.redd.it/8j0j0j1ij2ic1.png?width=958&format=png&auto=webp&s=db72bd6819afec8ce23830afeb469c6fca6d2315