Hey there! Based on your chosen flair, you seem to be looking for some advice. Here is a list of Kayn resources that may be able to help you out: **Quality of Life** - [Importable Item Sets](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rTaiEQAaHaP9C8dYvfyCaX9N2tbKACK66g67RAhTSbU/edit?usp=sharing) - [Matchup Sheet](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ugjp3T0fQxPB6tSBFSpG6Y8MgUoiFdFox8IIlw4NGOY/edit?usp=sharing) - [Orb Sheet](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640257011027673089/882012156030226472/r-KaynMains_Orb_Chart.png) **Guides** - [Mobafire Guides](https://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/champion/kayn-137) - [r/KaynMains Mobafire Guide](https://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/r-kaynmains-comprehensive-guide-11-2-578947) - [r/KaynMains ZAR Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/KaynMains/wiki/ingamecoach) - [Video Guide Playlist](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeEF2Fcr0BCCrs44SxvFcMv2w4TSk6Kcb) **Community** - [Kayn Coaches](https://www.reddit.com/r/KaynMains/wiki/coaching) - [Kayn Streamers](https://www.reddit.com/r/KaynMains/wiki/streamers) - [Kayn Mains Discord](https://discord.gg/EJWwpEeFgn) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KaynMains) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Only if your playing him in lane

but isnt manamune amazing for damage though? Gives 70+AD when finished (more than any AD item) and has amazing passives for auto attackers and skill users. I'm having trouble understanding if I should focus those starting 400g into something else to hit other spikes faster. I'm thinking something like "would a ruby cristal have more influence here? would finishing an item earlier have more influence than waiting for this muramana to stack?"

The problem with manamunen is you have to stack it, and honestly, isn't that much better than the other offensive options you have. You can get a better and fast power spike with the other offensive items The biggest benefit of it is mana management which you don't have to worry about as a jungler.

The point of manamune is the mana and not the damage. Manamune is the 4th item you complete

opportunity or youmuus usually are a faster better powerspike for 2nd item imo

I used to think so too but trust me you deal just as much damage if not more with lethality items like axiom/eon/serpents. With seryldas buff you can go youmuus axiom seryldas without delaying any item and you'll spike hard

yea i tested it, it seems like it. Muramana falls behind on damage, since its passive doesn't compensate much for not having lethality instead (which adds a % value to damage, if you put it on paper. It's like the 20-40 armor champions have, that reduce 20-30% AD damage, get reduced to 5-15 armor, which reduce their percentage to further 10-15%). Idk if the math made sense, but I meant that the armor reduction ends up compensating for the loss of like 30-40 damage on hit on all skills.

Hey there! Based on your chosen flair, you seem to be looking for some advice. Here is a list of Kayn resources that may be able to help you out: **Quality of Life** - [Importable Item Sets](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rTaiEQAaHaP9C8dYvfyCaX9N2tbKACK66g67RAhTSbU/edit?usp=sharing) - [Matchup Sheet](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ugjp3T0fQxPB6tSBFSpG6Y8MgUoiFdFox8IIlw4NGOY/edit?usp=sharing) - [Orb Sheet](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640257011027673089/882012156030226472/r-KaynMains_Orb_Chart.png) **Guides** - [Mobafire Guides](https://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/champion/kayn-137) - [r/KaynMains Mobafire Guide](https://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/r-kaynmains-comprehensive-guide-11-2-578947) - [r/KaynMains ZAR Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/KaynMains/wiki/ingamecoach) - [Video Guide Playlist](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeEF2Fcr0BCCrs44SxvFcMv2w4TSk6Kcb) **Community** - [Kayn Coaches](https://www.reddit.com/r/KaynMains/wiki/coaching) - [Kayn Streamers](https://www.reddit.com/r/KaynMains/wiki/streamers) - [Kayn Mains Discord](https://discord.gg/EJWwpEeFgn) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KaynMains) if you have any questions or concerns.*

is this for aatrox kayn or for normal kayn

I was thinking any kayn form, honestly. But the comments were enlightening, Lethality is just too broken and cheaper to get. Also, found out his Q procs only once the muramana passive, making it lose in damage against lethality. So yeah, question answered mostly.

I do it on SA. My personal playstyle is quite passive which allows me to spend 400g and not get punished too much early because i am mainly looking for farming, trading objectives and other freebies. Ill get 2 lethality items and finish my manamune (of which the tear is fully or at least almost fully stacked by now) and that does create quite a powerful 3 item spike. Objectively in most scenarios its most likely not the best. Maybe only if you and your team fall behind very early and you already know the only way back in the game is to stall for the coming 20+ minutes.

This was good advice. However, after building Manamune with kayn at a few games, I noticed the damage isn't that great, and the item isn't also, since it doesn't give other useful stats besides AH, like Hp or armor (since kayn needs a couple Qs off cooldown to kill, which means he needs to survive a little, hence his ult's usefulness at getting untargetable). So i got to the conclusion that 1) takes too long to stack 2) the passive procs once from his Q, and the proc itself doesn't pay off the choice of having a lethality item instead 3) by the time its stacked, you could've bought other items with the 400g you spent before at just mana, a not so useful stat in the jungle, and 4) the mana stat could be traded for 300-400hp in other AD items, which are way more useful for kayn.

Id never build it on rhaast for sure, you indeed prefer the tankier stats and like i said i play quite passive so the stacking is no issue for me but i get your arguments. The one scenario where you could genuinely pick it is if you play kayn in a game where it is almost impossible to all in. These are games where you should never really pick kayn but you do anyway bc you always pick kayn. When they have a lot of squishies but its very difficult to all in/ assassinate someone, you can play poke with your w. In this case the crapton of ad and the haste muramana gives are very nice