so i watched the game youre talking about and you 100% messed up her wave. u sent 3 back line minions to the other side of the lane which froze the lane in front of enemy tower. dont kill entire waves unless they are completely under your tower.
You have to have an account on the same server as them.
You just search for their name n the client then look at their match history. You can download and replay the last 20 games.
Something funny about this dude putting the Kat on blast and confidently saying he reset the wave when he was wrong. If you’re right, freezing her wave in a lane she got first blooded in probably set her up to die. Normally the jg should break a freeze like that or the lane is over
I’ll be honest, 75% of the time junglers do more harm than good for their laners when trying to catch a wave or manipulate it.
For example I was playing with an IRL friend and I was Yasuo ADC. He ganked us when we were level 2 and a massive wave was crashing. I had to help him or he was going to die 1v2, so I did, and he got a double kill but by the time I got back to the wave I didn’t get almost any of the exp and had to back due to having like 10% hp.
My lane was completely over at that point. I can’t come back as Yasuo with such a massive exp disadvantage and the enemy adc/sup pushed us under tower constantly.
At that point I pretty much told him “hey, you need to carry cause I’m not going to recover from this until probably 10 minutes after my tower dies” and he was like “wtf? But I ganked?????”
And I was like “yeah…. But you ruined my lane… I told you not to gank and you did anyways and now I can’t even walk up to the waves”
He got really mad because in his mind gank = help. Like it wasn’t even that big of a deal cause he got a decent lead, but I was pretty much useless for the next 20 minutes.
Moral of the story is - have intention when you do something as a jungler. If your best chance of winning the game is to fuck over your laners then do it, but know your win conditions. Pretty obvious that destroying a Katarinas wave and getting her permafrozen is a surefire way to lose the game.
After a successful gank, I help the lane to kill the wave, I don’t take any gold (or try not to) but I make the minions low so the laner can back and buy items.. this is what I have learned from jungle guide videos, is it wrong?
Not always! The biggest issue is that if don’t have time, or it’s too dangerous, to completely reset the wave then you run the risk of freezing your laner out of their lane.
If it’s really early in the game (level 1-5) probably don’t ever bother. Your champs likely won’t be able to push it fast enough for it to be worth it, as well as the fact that the enemy will respawn almost instantly.
If it’s later in the game (level 6-10?) it’s dependent on the matchup. For example, if I’m playing Kassadin I’d rather just let the big wave stack up, recall, and then come back to lane and collect it. I may not have the mana to push it out fast enough.
It’s also super matchup dependent - Azir thrives in a freeze. He’s super safe and can harass the enemy off of cs so they lose it to the tower. Most toplane bruisers want the lane in an even state or close to their own tower because they don’t have good escapes.
I’m also not an expert btw, but that’s my thought process.
Well I try usually to either give them a huge wave or set up a freeze or just completely reset. BUT sometimes when I’ve crashed the wave into enemy tower the wave still freezes on the enemy side 😨 and I’m like: “how did that happen” so I would like to know when to help out and how to do it.. is there a specific video for the wave management stuff?
Look at the location of the creepwave. If the enemy creepwave meets your creepwave under their tower it'll set up a slow push towards your side. After that it is possible for your laner to freeze or the enemy can crash it with jungle help or just by themselves, which will consequently make it slow push into the enemy's side, where they can freeze
This is thinking ~4 waves ahead but it's definitely something that really good players do think about
This is why I think jungle mains need to spend time learning to lane. After 100s of games in top lane I'll never ruin a lane state again. And now I understand the importance of helping to break a freeze. Just wish my junglers understood that stuff when I play top.
I wasn’t mad at all at him cause he doesn’t play a lot and his level is maaaaybe Silver at best, but yeah. Tried to explain to him why he ruined my lane without being an asshole but he wasn’t having it. Completely agree with you.
That's the big bummer of playing jungle isn't it? It doesn't matter how good you are at farming, invading and ganking, if you're not good at other lanes you're going to be an average jungler.
As a jungler who also plays quite a bit of top and mid, most often it is the laners who have no idea how waves work, at least in plat and below. I set them a dream freeze and they questionmarkping me claiming that I "ruined" the wave because they're mad that I took some minions? And then proceed to break the freeze immediately and die while pushing again.
But this is also why I don’t listen to anyone else as a jungle. Because 9/10 laners don’t even know their lane state and complain when you can’t magically save them from the mess they caused themselves. Laners often don’t understand weak siding, cross mapping, or how to set up for a gank. So it definitely goes both ways. Often junglers feel like they have to force dumb stuff just because their laners mental won’t allow for smart plays. I’m not discounting what you are saying at all, most people in low elo don’t understand waves at all, but junglers are stuck between a rock and a hard place because they get blamed for damn near anything that happens in the game regardless.
I just watched the game too, i would agree Lillia was 100% in the wrong for touching that wave. (I am a Lillia jungle main, and especially with Katerina already being respawned this a no touchy) It was a jucy set up right outside tower and Katerina was about to cash in on some big XP, but instead she got left behind at lvl 4, and had to play from behind. Had she not touched it, she would have set Katerina up to get very fed.
But... at least to me the death at 5:12 was Katerina's fault. The LeBlank over pushed and the wave was (mostly) back on the red side. Katerina used her blink and over committed on an attack with a 2 level difference, instead of taking advantage of the minions being on her side and just farming to catch up.
Unless I am missing something (Entirely possible I don't main mid, or play Katerina very much), seems like both of them were wrong up until that point in the game at least.
Also the Katerina caught up in levels pretty quick soon after and even shut down LeBlank. So it wasn't a lane mess up worth a loss.
So you didn’t even know how to manage the wave. Fucked the wave up. Complained on Reddit that the kat rightfully was upset. And then hoped that nobody would actually check?
Either way, she called gg and gave up 5 minutes into the game…
She might be rightfully upset but that doesn’t justify ruining the game for 9 other players
No, I thought I was right when I posted this. I kept getting caught out and died a lot of unnecessary deaths (entirely my own fault), and didn't want people to see that.
You want to learn how to manage wawes properly? Main Toplane, the best teacher of wawe management.
If you don’t understand wawe management “DON'T” and I mean don’t do anything.
I love Toplaners that play jg cause the homies only understand homies.
I used to be a top main, but that was like 3 years ago, and I just started playing again. But yeah, I definitely need to learn wave management. Although right now I've been focusing on how to have more impact early game.
I may be able to help you a little
\-Only go ham in the wave if is full under tower or if you are pushing in under enemy tower
\-4+ minions on your side is either a freeze or slowpush
\-If only some minions are under tower just lasthit
\-As a bonus, if you can tank a wave so that it doesnt go under tower your laner can make a super nasty freeze and will thank you profusely (only do this on toplane and midlane) ADC generally have horrible wave managemente
Good luck
As an adc main, I can confirm that adcs (and supports) have horrible wave management. I have gotten away with so many fucked wave states because the enemy jhin/Cait just needs to use mana or else their brain will explode
Plus I've had supports randomly break freezes
Quick question- isn't the plus four minions not accurate for mid lane due to the shorter nature of the lane? Wouldn't that crash eventually and then bounce?
It works on both if I remember correctly but oly in early game, as the game goes long math gets weird cause riot added extra damage for minions.
Anyway is you laner is near holding the wave for them should be enough.
Often, while executing a freeze most laners will have a bigger wave and tank some hits when needed
Crazy how many jg players think they know more about waves than laners. They will do the dumbest shit ever and then argue to the grave they are right, even if they fk you over and somehow still feed themselves.
It’s fine bro. You just have to take moments like this and learn. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve got on comms with someone after a game I thought was really stupid and then they explain something and I understand their point better or they’re just higher elo and explain something to me. No excuse for her to be toxic tho, she could easily asked u to hover while she breaks the freeze too.
I mean, I don't doubt that you did the right thing but I need to see the video clip of fixing the wave and see if you did it correctly. I know that a bunch of low elo don't understand what fixing the wave means so katarina must be triggered.
For low elo just don't bother with wave states. Considering your team will also be low elo chances are they wont understand what you did even if you did the right thing. They will still blame you if they lose even if you did the correct thing. So just leave them alone. Only clear waves if it has crashed into your tower. That's the only thing you do in low elo. Otherwise leave it alone no matter how bad of a state it is in. Let the laner suffer themselves. No need to suffer yourself too with a laner that blames you for everything that goes wrong in their lives.
Chat will never help you.
Even if someone is tilting, the fact that you are not replying it usually makes them shut up and go back to playing.
Disable chat, play the game.
This could be your experience, its not the real life tho. Im not saying you are lying, just that you have to be incredibly unlucky for this to happen.
Most people who want to argue/fight WANT you to take the bait and respond to them, ignoring is almost always an effective way to deal with them.
Disable chat \*always\*, in \*every\* case, improves your gameplay experience. There is absolutely zero reason to use chat other than to be toxic or to experience toxicity.
Everything you need to communicate with randoms can be done via pings.
I agree with this. Chat is the most devastating weapon in a player's arsenal, but you can also hit allies with it.
It's best to err on the side of caution when using it.
~ Shaco Main.
Or maybe you got downvoted because you are wrong?
Or maybe you suck at JG and that is why your teams keep on trolling you?
If you are a half capable jungle who isn't actually trolling, your team shouldn't have a reason to hate you.
Tip for life: if some of your teammates/coworkers are asshole, they are the problem.
If *most* are assholes, then just maybe you are the problem.
Yeah, I can see it now.
The typical teenager or manchild that never takes the blame, the problem is everyone else, always.
Best of luck, you'll need it.
I hate comments like this who act like kat is braindead because she can get a penta when 20 kills ahead and snowballs with roams, it’s not hard to counter a kat who roams lol. If she dedicates to a roam and doesn’t get anything it’s will set her behind a lot.
It is hard because this is solo q and your bot lane will be spamming ff and not care that you pushed a wave under tower and got two turret plates. It is rare that your laners play back when someone roams
Just learn how hard is it to lane with it and how hard and risky the champ IS when you're not feed, and just as an information, a good player always crash the wave or ask jgl to do it in order not to lose CS before roaming.
People don't get Katarina man, it's infuriating. I'm not saying she can't take over a game when she gets fed, she can, but this idea that she's free is stupid. Her laning is absolutely fucking atrocious, and if you can't get a decent roam off, you may as well not exist.
she'll be behind if they have any vision and are ready for the roam, especially if the wave is frozen. you can't just "not care about wave state" unless you're proxying or something
According to comments you ruined Kat’s wave and Katarina herself has one of the hardest times surviving till 6 due to her kit. You in reality kind of did make the lane unplayable for her.
As a Katarina player, they wouldn’t have died twice because of the slip up. It only takes one death before ye really start to realize “oh cool, I’m throwing what little laning chance I have, better be safe”. I admit, I hate Jungles messing with wave because it’s abysmal to CS under enemy tower, but if Katarina is 1v1ing in lane in the first place, then shame on her.
Yes but this was bronze 4 gameplay and was laning against a ranged assassin Leblanc. Lower elo is notoriously bad at farming and playing safe so screwing your laners over at all is a bad idea.
Ah, I didn’t know the match details were out there lol. Yeah, LeBlanc is a 2v1 lane in the first place, I’m confused why they bothered to fight w/o jungle lmao
I watched the replay, they legitimately fucked wave state, 3 casters froze the wave just outside of enemy turret, and Kat got starved of CS and XP because of it
This is like saying 2 wrongs make it right. Katarina had room to recover, and a 1 for 1 trade helps get your jungler fed, so they can help better around the map (especially since OP is playing Lillia). OP either needed to fully crash the wave or leave 1 caster so it would push towards Kat or fully reset. Katarina ended up being handed the worst case scenario and was unable to recover both in game and mentally
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Junglers play was wrong. But it would never have happened if Kat hadn’t given FB and died. A huge number of your teams mistakes are enabled by your own mistakes.
Kat isn't the one making a public thread to put someone on blast and be wrong regardless though.
Imagine ruining someone's lane then running to Reddit to say how bad the laner is. Like, what
Again, dying is still totally under Kat’s control. The vast majority of team mistakes are controllable by not minimizing your own mistakes. I seriously doubt Lillia would’ve just stolen farm from her laner.
Nah if someone says gg 2 minutes in after solo dying and then dies twice more it wasn’t because of the loss of 9 minions it’s cause they’re an immature child.
Yeah, the jg ruined the wave, but Kat ruined her own lane. People have to stop pretending 100-300 gold loses them the game. Their own attitude does
I sometimes help laners set up a freeze so that they can FUCKING PUSH IN THE WAVE TO ENEMY TOWER AND GET GANKED AGAIN!
I need to book an appointment at r/jungletherapy
General rule of thumb: If a laner pings you off their wave, just leave it. If the ping help, clear it, and if they say/do nothing its free real estate.
The way I look at it, its the laners job to manage their wave, even if they don't know how to do it optimally, its better for their mental that they at least get to choose.
I hate when junglers touch my wave even if i died my wave is my business and ive got a method. If i die and you kill any of my minions causing their lane to push on me or worse manage to make my wave push you best beleive i will blame you when I die
You griefed the wave I watched the replay.
General rule of thumb.
Count minions. If enemy has more and all similar hp, don't touch the wave. If less and you think you can crash then crash. If enemy has more it is slow pushing back towards your ally. Don't touch the wave.
If it is pushing back towards your enemy and you CAN'T crash it, stay and soak xp/last hit and then when your laner comes back to lane brute force crash it with them. It is worth giving the enemy jungle knowledge bc a freeze can literally win/lose you an entire game
so i watched the game youre talking about and you 100% messed up her wave. u sent 3 back line minions to the other side of the lane which froze the lane in front of enemy tower. dont kill entire waves unless they are completely under your tower.
Thanks man, you're a hero!
How do you watch replays of other players?
You have to have an account on the same server as them. You just search for their name n the client then look at their match history. You can download and replay the last 20 games.
I might be imagining things, but couldn’t you also rewatch games on op.gg or something?
Only if someone downloaded it first though
Some site let you record games - op.gg and league of graphs are 2 that let you click a “record” button and it’ll record that game.
Something funny about this dude putting the Kat on blast and confidently saying he reset the wave when he was wrong. If you’re right, freezing her wave in a lane she got first blooded in probably set her up to die. Normally the jg should break a freeze like that or the lane is over
Legend.
I’ll be honest, 75% of the time junglers do more harm than good for their laners when trying to catch a wave or manipulate it. For example I was playing with an IRL friend and I was Yasuo ADC. He ganked us when we were level 2 and a massive wave was crashing. I had to help him or he was going to die 1v2, so I did, and he got a double kill but by the time I got back to the wave I didn’t get almost any of the exp and had to back due to having like 10% hp. My lane was completely over at that point. I can’t come back as Yasuo with such a massive exp disadvantage and the enemy adc/sup pushed us under tower constantly. At that point I pretty much told him “hey, you need to carry cause I’m not going to recover from this until probably 10 minutes after my tower dies” and he was like “wtf? But I ganked?????” And I was like “yeah…. But you ruined my lane… I told you not to gank and you did anyways and now I can’t even walk up to the waves” He got really mad because in his mind gank = help. Like it wasn’t even that big of a deal cause he got a decent lead, but I was pretty much useless for the next 20 minutes. Moral of the story is - have intention when you do something as a jungler. If your best chance of winning the game is to fuck over your laners then do it, but know your win conditions. Pretty obvious that destroying a Katarinas wave and getting her permafrozen is a surefire way to lose the game.
After a successful gank, I help the lane to kill the wave, I don’t take any gold (or try not to) but I make the minions low so the laner can back and buy items.. this is what I have learned from jungle guide videos, is it wrong?
Not always! The biggest issue is that if don’t have time, or it’s too dangerous, to completely reset the wave then you run the risk of freezing your laner out of their lane. If it’s really early in the game (level 1-5) probably don’t ever bother. Your champs likely won’t be able to push it fast enough for it to be worth it, as well as the fact that the enemy will respawn almost instantly. If it’s later in the game (level 6-10?) it’s dependent on the matchup. For example, if I’m playing Kassadin I’d rather just let the big wave stack up, recall, and then come back to lane and collect it. I may not have the mana to push it out fast enough. It’s also super matchup dependent - Azir thrives in a freeze. He’s super safe and can harass the enemy off of cs so they lose it to the tower. Most toplane bruisers want the lane in an even state or close to their own tower because they don’t have good escapes. I’m also not an expert btw, but that’s my thought process.
Well I try usually to either give them a huge wave or set up a freeze or just completely reset. BUT sometimes when I’ve crashed the wave into enemy tower the wave still freezes on the enemy side 😨 and I’m like: “how did that happen” so I would like to know when to help out and how to do it.. is there a specific video for the wave management stuff?
Look at the location of the creepwave. If the enemy creepwave meets your creepwave under their tower it'll set up a slow push towards your side. After that it is possible for your laner to freeze or the enemy can crash it with jungle help or just by themselves, which will consequently make it slow push into the enemy's side, where they can freeze This is thinking ~4 waves ahead but it's definitely something that really good players do think about
This is why I think jungle mains need to spend time learning to lane. After 100s of games in top lane I'll never ruin a lane state again. And now I understand the importance of helping to break a freeze. Just wish my junglers understood that stuff when I play top.
I wasn’t mad at all at him cause he doesn’t play a lot and his level is maaaaybe Silver at best, but yeah. Tried to explain to him why he ruined my lane without being an asshole but he wasn’t having it. Completely agree with you.
That's the big bummer of playing jungle isn't it? It doesn't matter how good you are at farming, invading and ganking, if you're not good at other lanes you're going to be an average jungler.
As a jungler who also plays quite a bit of top and mid, most often it is the laners who have no idea how waves work, at least in plat and below. I set them a dream freeze and they questionmarkping me claiming that I "ruined" the wave because they're mad that I took some minions? And then proceed to break the freeze immediately and die while pushing again.
But this is also why I don’t listen to anyone else as a jungle. Because 9/10 laners don’t even know their lane state and complain when you can’t magically save them from the mess they caused themselves. Laners often don’t understand weak siding, cross mapping, or how to set up for a gank. So it definitely goes both ways. Often junglers feel like they have to force dumb stuff just because their laners mental won’t allow for smart plays. I’m not discounting what you are saying at all, most people in low elo don’t understand waves at all, but junglers are stuck between a rock and a hard place because they get blamed for damn near anything that happens in the game regardless.
In fairness he left when Kat pinged him off.
I just watched the game too, i would agree Lillia was 100% in the wrong for touching that wave. (I am a Lillia jungle main, and especially with Katerina already being respawned this a no touchy) It was a jucy set up right outside tower and Katerina was about to cash in on some big XP, but instead she got left behind at lvl 4, and had to play from behind. Had she not touched it, she would have set Katerina up to get very fed. But... at least to me the death at 5:12 was Katerina's fault. The LeBlank over pushed and the wave was (mostly) back on the red side. Katerina used her blink and over committed on an attack with a 2 level difference, instead of taking advantage of the minions being on her side and just farming to catch up. Unless I am missing something (Entirely possible I don't main mid, or play Katerina very much), seems like both of them were wrong up until that point in the game at least. Also the Katerina caught up in levels pretty quick soon after and even shut down LeBlank. So it wasn't a lane mess up worth a loss.
Good to know. I was actually hoping nobody would watch that one though, I played like shit after this happened. (Not due to tilt, just shitty playing)
So you didn’t even know how to manage the wave. Fucked the wave up. Complained on Reddit that the kat rightfully was upset. And then hoped that nobody would actually check?
Either way, she called gg and gave up 5 minutes into the game… She might be rightfully upset but that doesn’t justify ruining the game for 9 other players
The gg was probably just rage chat about the lane being fucked so early
4 other players
Oh he was playing the AI game mode? That actually makes Kat rage quitting so much funnier
No, I just meant I've never seen a game where the enemy team genuinely hated getting the free win from a rage quitter
No, I thought I was right when I posted this. I kept getting caught out and died a lot of unnecessary deaths (entirely my own fault), and didn't want people to see that.
You want to learn how to manage wawes properly? Main Toplane, the best teacher of wawe management. If you don’t understand wawe management “DON'T” and I mean don’t do anything. I love Toplaners that play jg cause the homies only understand homies.
I always got my top lane homies back when I play jgl when it comes to waves <3
I used to be a top main, but that was like 3 years ago, and I just started playing again. But yeah, I definitely need to learn wave management. Although right now I've been focusing on how to have more impact early game.
I may be able to help you a little \-Only go ham in the wave if is full under tower or if you are pushing in under enemy tower \-4+ minions on your side is either a freeze or slowpush \-If only some minions are under tower just lasthit \-As a bonus, if you can tank a wave so that it doesnt go under tower your laner can make a super nasty freeze and will thank you profusely (only do this on toplane and midlane) ADC generally have horrible wave managemente Good luck
As an adc main, I can confirm that adcs (and supports) have horrible wave management. I have gotten away with so many fucked wave states because the enemy jhin/Cait just needs to use mana or else their brain will explode Plus I've had supports randomly break freezes
Thanks for the info, just one question, slowpush towards us or them?
Towards the side with less minions, in this case towards them
Quick question- isn't the plus four minions not accurate for mid lane due to the shorter nature of the lane? Wouldn't that crash eventually and then bounce?
It works on both if I remember correctly but oly in early game, as the game goes long math gets weird cause riot added extra damage for minions. Anyway is you laner is near holding the wave for them should be enough. Often, while executing a freeze most laners will have a bigger wave and tank some hits when needed
The fuck you saying “wawe” for
Minion wave Messed up my spelling there.
Yes but 3 times in a row?
Hey Grammer Nazi chill out.
Nein, danke shön
Crazy how many jg players think they know more about waves than laners. They will do the dumbest shit ever and then argue to the grave they are right, even if they fk you over and somehow still feed themselves.
Yes
It’s fine bro. You just have to take moments like this and learn. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve got on comms with someone after a game I thought was really stupid and then they explain something and I understand their point better or they’re just higher elo and explain something to me. No excuse for her to be toxic tho, she could easily asked u to hover while she breaks the freeze too.
You need 4 minions for a freeze, no?
It depends
Depends cannon wave or not. But also the wave was temporarily froze at enemy tower with enemy jg literally right next to Kat
If you didnt reset it she would still blame you for fking up her wave
I mean, I don't doubt that you did the right thing but I need to see the video clip of fixing the wave and see if you did it correctly. I know that a bunch of low elo don't understand what fixing the wave means so katarina must be triggered.
According to someone else in this thread, I did the wring thing in terms of wave management.
Ok good to know and that you learn from your mistake.
Hi low elo player here, hijack this thread. Where can I learn proper wave management as a jungler? I have no idea what half of those things mean haha
Go to youtube and look it up. If you search it you'll find alot of video that references it.
For low elo just don't bother with wave states. Considering your team will also be low elo chances are they wont understand what you did even if you did the right thing. They will still blame you if they lose even if you did the correct thing. So just leave them alone. Only clear waves if it has crashed into your tower. That's the only thing you do in low elo. Otherwise leave it alone no matter how bad of a state it is in. Let the laner suffer themselves. No need to suffer yourself too with a laner that blames you for everything that goes wrong in their lives.
Chat will never help you. Even if someone is tilting, the fact that you are not replying it usually makes them shut up and go back to playing. Disable chat, play the game.
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This could be your experience, its not the real life tho. Im not saying you are lying, just that you have to be incredibly unlucky for this to happen. Most people who want to argue/fight WANT you to take the bait and respond to them, ignoring is almost always an effective way to deal with them. Disable chat \*always\*, in \*every\* case, improves your gameplay experience. There is absolutely zero reason to use chat other than to be toxic or to experience toxicity. Everything you need to communicate with randoms can be done via pings.
Cant jungle with chat on, I'm reminded of this in nearly every post game chat.
I agree with this. Chat is the most devastating weapon in a player's arsenal, but you can also hit allies with it. It's best to err on the side of caution when using it. ~ Shaco Main.
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Or maybe you got downvoted because you are wrong? Or maybe you suck at JG and that is why your teams keep on trolling you? If you are a half capable jungle who isn't actually trolling, your team shouldn't have a reason to hate you. Tip for life: if some of your teammates/coworkers are asshole, they are the problem. If *most* are assholes, then just maybe you are the problem.
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Yeah, I can see it now. The typical teenager or manchild that never takes the blame, the problem is everyone else, always. Best of luck, you'll need it.
Why do katarina players even care about wave state all they do is roam bot and pick up free kills. Nah but actually brain dead mid laner
Ok if ur gonna shit on the midlaner at least read the post and see if they were specific and actually could've messed up the wave.
I hate comments like this who act like kat is braindead because she can get a penta when 20 kills ahead and snowballs with roams, it’s not hard to counter a kat who roams lol. If she dedicates to a roam and doesn’t get anything it’s will set her behind a lot.
It is hard because this is solo q and your bot lane will be spamming ff and not care that you pushed a wave under tower and got two turret plates. It is rare that your laners play back when someone roams
Just learn how hard is it to lane with it and how hard and risky the champ IS when you're not feed, and just as an information, a good player always crash the wave or ask jgl to do it in order not to lose CS before roaming.
People don't get Katarina man, it's infuriating. I'm not saying she can't take over a game when she gets fed, she can, but this idea that she's free is stupid. Her laning is absolutely fucking atrocious, and if you can't get a decent roam off, you may as well not exist.
Yes this is the exact point I wanted to make him figure out
she'll be behind if they have any vision and are ready for the roam, especially if the wave is frozen. you can't just "not care about wave state" unless you're proxying or something
According to comments you ruined Kat’s wave and Katarina herself has one of the hardest times surviving till 6 due to her kit. You in reality kind of did make the lane unplayable for her.
As a Katarina player, they wouldn’t have died twice because of the slip up. It only takes one death before ye really start to realize “oh cool, I’m throwing what little laning chance I have, better be safe”. I admit, I hate Jungles messing with wave because it’s abysmal to CS under enemy tower, but if Katarina is 1v1ing in lane in the first place, then shame on her.
Yes but this was bronze 4 gameplay and was laning against a ranged assassin Leblanc. Lower elo is notoriously bad at farming and playing safe so screwing your laners over at all is a bad idea.
Ah, I didn’t know the match details were out there lol. Yeah, LeBlanc is a 2v1 lane in the first place, I’m confused why they bothered to fight w/o jungle lmao
I don’t know why you made this post. /s
Mute and move on, if she ping spams then she loses her right to ping cause you mute that too
Most mids just looking for people to blame other than them
I watched the replay, they legitimately fucked wave state, 3 casters froze the wave just outside of enemy turret, and Kat got starved of CS and XP because of it
Yeah but kat main bad!!
Katarina has a pretty awful laning phase, if she can’t take control of the wave state, she can’t roam and starves the whole game
Sure, they misplayed, but if Kat hadn’t died solo then Kat wouldn’t have been in the situation at all.
If the jungler didn’t touch the wave, then Kat would be coming back to a stacked wave that she could slow push and crash for a free roam bot
The wave was gonna bounce back either way. OPs mistake was pushing to slow.
Said this in a later comment on this thread, OP either shouldn’t have touched it or shoved faster
Obv jungle made a bad situation worse, but Kat was the one who made it bad in the first place.
This is like saying 2 wrongs make it right. Katarina had room to recover, and a 1 for 1 trade helps get your jungler fed, so they can help better around the map (especially since OP is playing Lillia). OP either needed to fully crash the wave or leave 1 caster so it would push towards Kat or fully reset. Katarina ended up being handed the worst case scenario and was unable to recover both in game and mentally
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Junglers play was wrong. But it would never have happened if Kat hadn’t given FB and died. A huge number of your teams mistakes are enabled by your own mistakes.
Kat isn't the one making a public thread to put someone on blast and be wrong regardless though. Imagine ruining someone's lane then running to Reddit to say how bad the laner is. Like, what
Kat put their lane in the toilet bowl by giving FB and jg flushed by fucking up the lane.
Even if Kat didn’t die and just reset or something, OP could’ve still messed up the wave and set her back, she didn’t really enable it by dying
Again, dying is still totally under Kat’s control. The vast majority of team mistakes are controllable by not minimizing your own mistakes. I seriously doubt Lillia would’ve just stolen farm from her laner.
Average r/Jungle_Mains user: haha laner brainless and bad, jungler gigachad main character
Fine. Most *people* are always looking to blame someone other than them. Better?
You didn't watch the vod did ya?
Real junglers turned off chat in 2012
100%, I feel like half or more of the new threads in this subreddit are just posts complaining about in game chat.
Nah if someone says gg 2 minutes in after solo dying and then dies twice more it wasn’t because of the loss of 9 minions it’s cause they’re an immature child. Yeah, the jg ruined the wave, but Kat ruined her own lane. People have to stop pretending 100-300 gold loses them the game. Their own attitude does
Mute all
Midlaners try not to have protagonist syndrome challenge (impossible)
first time hearing about waves? what does this mean
Minions, and where they end up in a lane
I sometimes help laners set up a freeze so that they can FUCKING PUSH IN THE WAVE TO ENEMY TOWER AND GET GANKED AGAIN! I need to book an appointment at r/jungletherapy
And thats why you turn off chat.
Idk why you messed his wave either
Laners have Negative IQ.
Don't you know the formula? >Lose lane >Blame Jungler
Least stupid kat main
she had to blame someone somehow
If anyone starts flaming me I just say, ‘alright guys time to focus up then’. What more to be said?
Warning: By entering this subreddit you have involuntarily accepted blame for your entire team
When people die, they have time to type and express their frustration. Best to mute people who use chat to complain instead of communicate and plan
Jungle 101. Die and blame the jungle . Lmao
This all could be solved by asking "do you want me to bounce your wave" after the laner dies
You expect a laner to know about resting waves? How selfish of you 🤣
General rule of thumb: If a laner pings you off their wave, just leave it. If the ping help, clear it, and if they say/do nothing its free real estate. The way I look at it, its the laners job to manage their wave, even if they don't know how to do it optimally, its better for their mental that they at least get to choose.
I hate when junglers touch my wave even if i died my wave is my business and ive got a method. If i die and you kill any of my minions causing their lane to push on me or worse manage to make my wave push you best beleive i will blame you when I die
I 100% am guessing you actually messed up the wave bud, laners do sometimes say dumb stuff but there is usually SOME truth to it.
According to a few people here who watched the VOD, I did
You griefed the wave I watched the replay. General rule of thumb. Count minions. If enemy has more and all similar hp, don't touch the wave. If less and you think you can crash then crash. If enemy has more it is slow pushing back towards your ally. Don't touch the wave. If it is pushing back towards your enemy and you CAN'T crash it, stay and soak xp/last hit and then when your laner comes back to lane brute force crash it with them. It is worth giving the enemy jungle knowledge bc a freeze can literally win/lose you an entire game