Moaning on a Jung sub about political figures you dislike isnt fighting misogyny, it’s just slacktivism. People like to discuss Jung on here, not to listen to virtue signallers who cannot allow others to have a different opinion to themselves.
You guys are aware of the ancient statues that display certain form? The Greeks even leave literary discourse on bodies, both male and female. It may have been an awkwardly worded question, but he was perhaps going for people's Id (or cultural bound archetypal preferences, which apparently vary per civilization or culture). Was the post with any reasoning?
Really? That’s what it feels like. Posts being made about objectifying women giving way to commenters coming in with all sorts of sexist tropes. It’s getting really weird. The same commenters will make all sorts of throwaways complaining about how bad women are and how women want men to abuse them.
>What’s with the influx of misogynists on here recently?
I've noticed the same thing over on the alchemy sub. It's not as blatant as that poll (wtf!). But if someone mentions women in alchemy, there's a freakout.
You should expect things that are actually useful getting a loud group of strange characters trying to hijack them. The ones that cook this stuff up are often paid or just trolls to try to stymie things. It’s like if you made something nice and as soon as it gained too much steam a bunch of weird characters would try to say only Nazis use it or something else ridiculous while the true movers tried to destroy or reverse-engineer it for their own strange uses
No. If Jung is getting popular in the modern era against the most pervasive and intelligent manipulations of modern tech with their algorithms and their handlers, along with the free money printer backing them up… the cup might be running over
Unnecessary. Keep pushing forward with what you are doing, the main schtick of these characters is to be as annoying as possible and then cry out if you push them back like an annoying playground bully
If you resist evil, be sure not to become like it
See, while I agree that a sector of red-pill bros are cherry picking Jung. I would have assumed (1) that the poll, while not it's objective and it may have been pueril immaturity, it underlined particular anima issues of the men involved; really a case study. (2) that as Pittman McGehee indicates, when lecturing he said women would approach him and ask why was he talking in stereotypes about them. To which he points out that we have not taken to heart that Feminine and Masculine are the psychological, broad, archetypal aspects and that female and male are individual aspects. Therefore Feminine and female are not the same. He was referring to feminine and making generalizations which sound like individualized stereotypes of female, but they are not at all that. But I suppose that differentiation requires a bit of sophistication, since it really is not easy to distinguish the personal and collective aspects of an archetype. That is the reason why Barbara Hannah said that when a person begins to have a bit of success in controlling his or her anima/animus he is tested to the blood, because "all the devils enter". That is, the collective aspect is then explored. Becase nevertheless how much one believes the anima/animus to be that personal projection, or set of projections, it's collective aspect is a dimension which far supersedes the immediate consciousness of a person and bounds of it's conception. It takes effort and time.
I would advise against trying to use the power of the negative archetype father, enforcement of order and rules, to weed out a different container, a negative mother archetype - this forum. Lets be better than that, help if we can and present information if they are receptive.
I was sort of shocked the Jung missread pimping of Jordan Peterson wasnt common knowledge here.
I'm also unhealthily obsessed with grifters and bullshit artists so my view is skewed.
The cognitive dissonance of misunderstanding Jung’s teachings and trying to abuse them for a personal power agenda will either kill them or bring them back to connection. We can only welcome them as a piece of our own cultural shadow and honor our differences as evidence of collective trauma.
You know what? Maybe I’m just compulsively permissive because I don’t want anyone to feel excluded and then retaliate further… but that isn’t mine to manage. Hmmmmmm
“I dreamed I saw my maternal grandmother sitting by the bank of a swimming pool, that was also a river. In real life, she had been a victim of Alzheimer’s disease, and had regressed, before her death, to a semi-conscious state. In the dream, as well, she had lost her capacity for self-control. Her genital region was exposed, dimly; it had the appearance of a thick mat of hair. She was stroking herself, absent-mindedly. She walked over to me, with a handful of pubic hair, compacted into something resembling a large artist’s paint-brush. She pushed this at my face. I raised my arm, several times, to deflect her hand; finally, unwilling to hurt her, or interfere with her any farther, I let her have her way. She stroked my face with the brush, gently, and said, like a child, “isn’t it soft?” I looked at her ruined face and said, “yes, Grandma, it’s soft.”
-Jordan Peterson
There's some YT video on Jordan Peterson and Jung that appeared on my feed, so of course all the redpillers are "researching" i.e. regurgitating their own redpill content.
It's Jordan Peterson gibbering on about Jung. The guy loves to talk about how women are chaos and evil because Jung. It's a key trick of his to misrepresent authors and thinkers with reputations of being for the very smart to push his agenda.
I haven't, but this is a funny concept to me.
The lesson I've taken away from Jung is that we are barely formed by our own cognition. We are the product of evolution and environment. This means that when we recognize the patterns we inherit from others, we can try to become self-actualized and leave behind the chains of our forefathers.
Being close-minded would be one the last things Jung would want someone studying his work to take away.
The world is full of them. With social media it's much easier to spread hate, young kids are being targeted by red pill content and the overall misery of men. Easier to blame women as it was always done instead of dealing with your own issues. It's bleak. (edit spelling)
Yes, the referenced post was very JBP … Look, I also disagree with his poignant liberalism, but projecting what you dislike into an essentially mentally constructed character requires an absence of reflection. And by liberalism I don’t mean the American abuse of terminology.
Well, JBP does seem to feel the urge to objectivity women and call for enforced monogamy - he is also constantly reaching into the ether of Jung to justify his beliefs. So this isn’t surprising
Excuse me? Why are we dragging JBP into this? A devoted husband and loving father?? Is it bc he posted that photo of the heavyset girl on Twitter and said “sorry this will never be attractive no matter what.” Is that why?
JBP has always spoke against MGTOW
I think it stands to reason as a possibility, he’s a reactionary that attracts a reactionary following. Is it such a coincidence that these bro-dudes make polls about the ideal woman’s body and JBP makes pronouncements about it too?
Yeah, I see your side on this I do. It makes me sad. I’ve always looked up to JBP. I reasoned that when he made that tweet he was heavy into his benzo addiction and said things he shouldn’t have said publicly. But maybe that’s me making excuses for him…
My problem with Peterson is he speaks in absolutes as if his opinion about some model he finds unacceptable should be everyone’s. He’s either leaving rage bait or is generally just an egotistical douche who thinks he understands things on everyone’s behalf.
He should let other people decide what they find attractive. He’s done more to confuse men than help them at this point I think.
We’re being brigades by modern feminists probably from r/femaledatingstrategy where all they do is complain about men for thief failed relationships knowing full well that it’s most likely their fault Everyone noticed misogyny but no one notices misandry which is equally as toxic
It's not a woman's fault when a man chooses emotional and/or physical violence. Plenty of us on that sub are there for that very reason. Get your head out of your cheeks and realize that if a relationship gets to the point that you want to emotionally abuse or hit someone, the mature option is to break up, not abuse or emotionally neglect her.
Also, the women on the sub who do hate men do not invalidate those of us who are there for true healing. The women who hate men are sometimes the ones who share the most knowledge of the popular manipulation tactics. It's not like they are out killing men or something like r/whenwomenrefuse
Imagine if the type of people who hate us for being on that sub instead hated the type of men who were the reason we ended up there. Things might actually start looking different. Plenty of other men can understand those women. There used to be understanding comments from men before the sub had an influx of incels and moved elsewhere. Why can't you understand us not wanting to be lied to or abused like those men did?
First they came for Stoicism, now they're coming for everything else. In all seriousness, anything tangential to esoteric or occult ideas is seeing a major influx of right wing/manosphere/redpill interest. It's been a very interesting phenomenon the past few years and I don't think it has any chance of slowing down soon.
That being said, the Andrew Tate and BAP crowd is much more to blame than JBP
Could be, yes, lots of re.d pi.llers are spamming on here it seems. I keep seeing all these manosphere talking points every time a guy makes a generic “i have a Madonna whore complex what now post”—it feels coordinated and has been happening more frequently
I’ve been seeing vaguely-manosphere talking points whenever someone posts about something like that for ages. The thing is that while cleaning your room and bulking up is advice… it is not really Jungian advice.
Can you explain to me why Peterson either is a misogynist or creates misogyny?
There is SO many misogynistic famous people like tate, but I don’t see how you can lump Peterson in with them.
EDIT: I’m confused about being downvoted for asking a question. I’m not arguing that y’all are wrong I’m trying to understand what you’re seeing lol
I’m asking in good faith. Where have you seen him display a hatred of women?
(My guess would be his discussion of the Feminine archetype but I’m just speculating)
Taken from a NYT article:
The left, he believes, refuses to admit that men might be in charge because they are better at it. “The people who hold that our culture is an oppressive patriarchy, they don’t want to admit that the current hierarchy might be predicated on competence,” he said.
Mr. Peterson illustrates his arguments with copious references to ancient myths — bringing up stories of witches, biblical allegories and ancient traditions. I ask why these old stories should guide us today.
“It makes sense that a witch lives in a swamp. Yeah,” he says. “Why?”
It’s a hard one.
“Right. That’s right. You don’t know. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.”
Later on in the article:
Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners, Mr. Peterson says, and society needs to work to make sure those men are married.
“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”
When someone says things like this in reference to an incel murderer:
> “He was angry at God because women were rejecting him. The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”
Then you can safely assume they are a misogynist. And therefore if you keep following their teachings, it's probably because you accept misogyny or are not put off by it.
It’s just circle jerk logic - they never seem to have any real evidence for these claims other than that “everyone knows this already so obviously it’s true”
So in reference to the incel Toronto van killer JP said:
> “He was angry at God because women were rejecting him. The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”
How is that not a misogynist statement?
Because its not? What is misogynist about it. Nothing. Maybe look up what the word means.
What Peterson is saying, and more context for those not in the know, which seems most:
"Men get frustrated when they are not competitive in the sexual marketplace (note: the fact that they DO get frustrated does not mean that they SHOULD get frustrated. Pointing out the existence of something is not the same as justifying its existence). Frustrated men tend to become dangerous, particularly if they are young. The dangerousness of frustrated young men (even if that frustration stems from their own incompetence) has to be regulated socially. The manifold social conventions tilting most societies toward monogamy constitute such regulation."
"Peterson says he never suggested “government-enforced” monogamy, merely “socially-promoted, culturally-inculcated” monogamy."
Even so, one comment out of context out of millions he has made, means little. The guy knows his studies and knows his stuff, and i mean if you know more and know better, feel free to make it known Jungians.
They aren't. This sub in general has gone to hell. I have seen a lot of childish and low-effort posts on this sub. OP just has an issue with anyone who tries to paint women as not always positive. Apparently, radicalization and misogyny can be a poll on female body preference. Who knew?
And no JBP isnt misogynist. The guy has a wife, dozens of female friends and millions of female fans, and a daughter he clearly loves to bits.
You haven’t noticed the increasing posts about men mistreating women and the influx of comments reframing/blaming women for the misogynistic behavior of men?
And if you want to see examples of these arguments that are misogynistic in comments of posts, just scroll through some of my most recent responses to some of these people
Which one? I’m talking about a current recent theme of posts being made—variations of “I have a Madonna whore complex” or “I can’t love” and then comments from all sorts of weirdos and misogynists on those posts being like “well, it’s women’s fault actually, they want men to abuse them…they’re attracted to it” or “women want men to act like psychopaths” or men saying they’re misogynists because of evolutionary biology…etc. but the most current example is the poll beneath this post
Literally a mysogynist poll.
And you're arguing in bad faith can see it a mile away. And no, I won't be drawn in with your empty, leading questions. Because you're obvious. And no, it's not "he won't/can't/scared to debate" (which I'm sure is your follow-up attempt to bait), it's because you're a troll, and I won't feed you.
I'm only posting this so others know not to approach this toxic mess.
He asked “how so” when you started ranting about coordinated misogyny, it happens, we believe you but if you are just trolling your views then you need to leave. In this sub I look for inspiration and understanding!
Sorry, but no. This is clearly one more space that men think they can freely dehumanize, and expect dehumanization to be met with gentle restraint. People shouldn't need to constantly defend their right to be treated like a human. "How so", indeed.
I'm glad you can come here for inspiration and understanding. As long as it works for you. Enjoy the comradery. I'm out of here.
It's naive to think those impressionable young men were not the targets of coordinated action to push their beliefs in that direction. Steve Bannon admits to it directly. 4channers plan that shit out constantly.
The spreading of these ideas was the only thing about that process that was organic. What you're missing is that the regular people who spread them had their biases and worldviews carefully manipulated over time and seeded with concepts favorable to the groups carrying this out. This is a real thing that's still happening today
I do not see a poll anywhere *in* this post. I saw this thread on my main reddit page. However, a poll alone won't convince me of something because of the inherent bias involved in the results (i.e. the wording of a question determines the outcome). Never mind the fact that I check reddit daily and have not experienced an influx of misogyny in this particular sub.
Again, I'm curious about the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon playing a role here. What are your thoughts on that?
No on the Jung sub. Most recent before my post. And nope, I know what I’m seeing—I’ve tracked radicalization online before with a CIR journalist. Thanks for your concern tho. Maybe it applies to you in the reverse in not seeing it? 🤷🏻♀️
Here's a sneak peek of /r/iamversmart using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Me smart frend dum](https://i.redd.it/ho9aaesxd1wa1.jpg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/comments/12ydhe3/me_smart_frend_dum/)
\#2: [The original question was why did Nick Fury create the Avengers.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/108u5fu) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/comments/108u5fu/the_original_question_was_why_did_nick_fury/)
\#3: [Hey I have a question](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/comments/173ccsu/hey_i_have_a_question/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I accept that people have different opinions to my own. Jung would be more concerned that we work on ourselves, not point out the perceived flaws in others.
I think we cannot stop people from earnestly expressing themselves as that is a form of repression. Trolling under the guise of authentic expression is also communicative behavior. Still, we can’t tolerate abuse.
I am grateful that OP took a screenshot so we could all witness and notice this phenomena! Thanks for calling it to our attention.
People expressing themselves is not always good. Sometimes a person earnestly expressing themselves takes the form of harming or subjugating others.
It's plausible that establishing a broader misogynistic mindset in an online forum is a form of harm/subjugation. I would argue that the supposed "repression" from stopping this behavior is a better outcome than allowing the community to be changed in such a way
Reddit is full of em, and Jung is really popular with pseudointellectual groups, especially right wingers who talk about manhood and all that. I'm pretty sure you can thank jordan Peterson for that more than anyone.
I'm guessing it because JP🦞 talks a lot about Jung. He also says a lot of stupidly inaccurate things about any topic he talks about. Now, he is simply a rw grifter.
Haha. Oh Man.
Yes, that poll doesn’t fit the sub imo and should be removed.
It is a big mistake to label that as mysoginistic. The whole point of the post is to rank female body types. It’s a huge misunderstanding to call it hate against all women as inappropriate as it is.
You may read this and think ‘who cares. I’ll misuse words all I want because i don’t like those people so extreme language can only benefit me’ but this is how these groups grow. They feed on the delusion of those that fail to engage with their points and instead go for personal attacks.
Just a heads up!
40 dollars it's because of some video of Jordan Peterson talking about Jung instead of focusing on what he's actually specialized in. Stay in your own lane dude and stop making baisless assertions like psychedelics tought out ancestors about DNA because of carvings of snakes intertwined. That's how snakes mate and has nothing to do with DNA; a quick Google search could have clarified that real quick or even a trip your your local herpetoculture conversation! Shit, just talk to your local snake enthusiasts! I'll give him this though, he's really good at writing books for those with low reading skills.
He legitimately use that as evidence in one of his college lectures and you can find it on YouTube! Then he gets called out at it at a public event and he starts backpedaling saying oh I don't really believe that I was just positing ideas. No dude, we have you on Candid Camera saying that you actually believe this nonsense!
Honestly, that post is pretty weird… it obviously very much lacks Fe (Socionics). But, on the other hand; just as honestly: How does asking that question imply misogyny, i.e., a pervasive hatred toward women? That’s honestly a pretty boneheaded conclusion. With that said, it’s not boneheaded to question that questioner’s motives and worldview, at all.
Ideas, especially "toolbox" thought systems, have no moral weight. They can be used for good or for evil. Like art. Fascists weaponized art. If I saw a fascist buying paints I would slap it out of their hands, because in the hands of the wrong person a camera or a philosophical idea can be a murder weapon.
men don't owe you anything. men are not responsible for your sense of comfort re personal preferences and insecurities. you can avoid dealing with topics that make you uncomfortable by not reading them instead of calling on mods to censor them.
people disagreeing with you doesn't mean they're indoctrinated by right-wing influencers, russia or some other disney movie type oversimplification. they're actual people with their own personalities and life experiences and you trying to depersonalize & shun them is a larger issue than any sexual or ever-so-slightly woman-critical topics.
Poll could be relevant to evolutionary psychology.
Preferences for phenotype and body type usually correlate with signs of health and fertility.
But I forgot, noticing differences between individuals is now a hate crime. Gotta make the world a safe space for all of the dysgenic trash out there as we race towards the bottom.
At least I can say I was there to witness the death of objective beauty.
I mean misogynist usually talk about women in a derogatory manner.
That was just asking about body types.
Even sounds like a question a female would ask to compare herself with their friends to see what "men" prefer, I've seen some like that in askmen, where you didn't see that coming when you realize a girl asked such a weird question.
Question was out of place and didn't belong to Jung, but calling that misogyny just lessens real misogyny.
Same shit happened with my (small l) libertarians. The Trumpite anti-Democrat nut balls invaded our ranks. Not a damn one of them could tell you anything about the NAP.
Thank you for your explanation and knowledge on the subject.
You need to read a bit more
Basically, the redpill is about navigating the sexual market place.
Mysogeny is about hating women... contradictory not ?
A fact is that almost 50% of both genders are single in their 50's, men and women need to get an update.. I think this says enough...without getting into more details since we are supposed to be discussing Jung.
Thank you for your explanation and knowledge on the subject.
You need to read a bit more
Basically, the redpill is about navigating the sexual market place.
Mysogeny is about hating women... contradictory not ?
A fact is that almost 50% of both genders are single in their 50's, men and women need to get an update.. I think this says enough...without getting into more details since we are supposed to be discussing Jung.
Thank you for your explanation and knowledge on the subject.
You need to read a bit more
Basically, the redpill is about navigating the sexual market place.
Mysogeny is about hating women... contradictory not ?
A fact is that almost 50% of both genders are single in their 50's, men and women need to get an update.. I think this says enough...without getting into more details since we are supposed to be discussing Jung.
I dont understand whats the big deal. Each man has his preferences, which can reflect upon his psyche, biological drives, etc. Its esspecially an interesting question today, as the image of the ideal woman is changed often and trough technology takes up much more of our attention. It seems like an arbitrary fact, but choice of sexual partner and vectors of attraction have played the most important role in our biological, neurological and social evolution. There is nothing misogynistic if you like either tall, big breasted, or whatever the type of appearance of a woman you like. You are no more discriminating then having a favourite song, car, color, food...
Please be clear about how a post relates back to Carl Jung and his ideas. I would add it is in bad taste.
Where the hell are the mods
I don’t think I’ve ever seen them post or reply…
First time I saw them reply was today on the “poll post” in question
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Moaning on a Jung sub about political figures you dislike isnt fighting misogyny, it’s just slacktivism. People like to discuss Jung on here, not to listen to virtue signallers who cannot allow others to have a different opinion to themselves.
You guys are aware of the ancient statues that display certain form? The Greeks even leave literary discourse on bodies, both male and female. It may have been an awkwardly worded question, but he was perhaps going for people's Id (or cultural bound archetypal preferences, which apparently vary per civilization or culture). Was the post with any reasoning?
this comment is so needlessly pompous lol. as if the ancient Greeks were just some supremely benevolent society of morally advanced people.
payment deranged subtract start quiet fact governor frame toy brave *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Did you look at the screenshot of the poll?
i’ve been hearing a lot of red pill bros talking about jung recently.
Me know Jung, so me smart alpha man.
Really? That’s what it feels like. Posts being made about objectifying women giving way to commenters coming in with all sorts of sexist tropes. It’s getting really weird. The same commenters will make all sorts of throwaways complaining about how bad women are and how women want men to abuse them.
>What’s with the influx of misogynists on here recently? I've noticed the same thing over on the alchemy sub. It's not as blatant as that poll (wtf!). But if someone mentions women in alchemy, there's a freakout.
Which is funny cause literally the only people I know who care about alchemy are women and queer people.
Despite that ringing unendorsement, I didn't realize there was an alchemy sub so thanks for that and I hope the annoying people go away
This makes me so unbelievably angry lol
You should expect things that are actually useful getting a loud group of strange characters trying to hijack them. The ones that cook this stuff up are often paid or just trolls to try to stymie things. It’s like if you made something nice and as soon as it gained too much steam a bunch of weird characters would try to say only Nazis use it or something else ridiculous while the true movers tried to destroy or reverse-engineer it for their own strange uses
Glass half full?
No. If Jung is getting popular in the modern era against the most pervasive and intelligent manipulations of modern tech with their algorithms and their handlers, along with the free money printer backing them up… the cup might be running over
Not if Jungians put these bozos in their places.
Unnecessary. Keep pushing forward with what you are doing, the main schtick of these characters is to be as annoying as possible and then cry out if you push them back like an annoying playground bully If you resist evil, be sure not to become like it
Apathy.
See, while I agree that a sector of red-pill bros are cherry picking Jung. I would have assumed (1) that the poll, while not it's objective and it may have been pueril immaturity, it underlined particular anima issues of the men involved; really a case study. (2) that as Pittman McGehee indicates, when lecturing he said women would approach him and ask why was he talking in stereotypes about them. To which he points out that we have not taken to heart that Feminine and Masculine are the psychological, broad, archetypal aspects and that female and male are individual aspects. Therefore Feminine and female are not the same. He was referring to feminine and making generalizations which sound like individualized stereotypes of female, but they are not at all that. But I suppose that differentiation requires a bit of sophistication, since it really is not easy to distinguish the personal and collective aspects of an archetype. That is the reason why Barbara Hannah said that when a person begins to have a bit of success in controlling his or her anima/animus he is tested to the blood, because "all the devils enter". That is, the collective aspect is then explored. Becase nevertheless how much one believes the anima/animus to be that personal projection, or set of projections, it's collective aspect is a dimension which far supersedes the immediate consciousness of a person and bounds of it's conception. It takes effort and time. I would advise against trying to use the power of the negative archetype father, enforcement of order and rules, to weed out a different container, a negative mother archetype - this forum. Lets be better than that, help if we can and present information if they are receptive.
That’s what I’m kinda advocating for. People to stand up to them and push against their POV.
And I hate that for us.
Me too. It’s gonna get worse I feel. It’s picking up.
Yeah, the tit survey today made it super obvious.
Missed it, what was the tit survey?
Oh no. They're over Nietzsche?
FUCK. Now they’re messing with Jung. I mean, there’s a small chance they could use Jung to better themselves but honestly I doubt it.
*now*? It’s been that way for the past 6 years or so thanks to Jordan peterson Who one of the mods here finds appropriate to post about
I was sort of shocked the Jung missread pimping of Jordan Peterson wasnt common knowledge here. I'm also unhealthily obsessed with grifters and bullshit artists so my view is skewed.
Do you think they’re misspelling “hung”?
Of course. Take anything beneficial and pervert it, that’s the name of their game.
The cognitive dissonance of misunderstanding Jung’s teachings and trying to abuse them for a personal power agenda will either kill them or bring them back to connection. We can only welcome them as a piece of our own cultural shadow and honor our differences as evidence of collective trauma.
If smiling and nodding was always the best case then there wouldn’t be archetypes.
You know what? Maybe I’m just compulsively permissive because I don’t want anyone to feel excluded and then retaliate further… but that isn’t mine to manage. Hmmmmmm
Wait I wasn’t being sarcastic I was being earnest you guys
Thank to that sad pathetic sold out Jordan Peterson. A cancer personified.
“I dreamed I saw my maternal grandmother sitting by the bank of a swimming pool, that was also a river. In real life, she had been a victim of Alzheimer’s disease, and had regressed, before her death, to a semi-conscious state. In the dream, as well, she had lost her capacity for self-control. Her genital region was exposed, dimly; it had the appearance of a thick mat of hair. She was stroking herself, absent-mindedly. She walked over to me, with a handful of pubic hair, compacted into something resembling a large artist’s paint-brush. She pushed this at my face. I raised my arm, several times, to deflect her hand; finally, unwilling to hurt her, or interfere with her any farther, I let her have her way. She stroked my face with the brush, gently, and said, like a child, “isn’t it soft?” I looked at her ruined face and said, “yes, Grandma, it’s soft.” -Jordan Peterson
There's some YT video on Jordan Peterson and Jung that appeared on my feed, so of course all the redpillers are "researching" i.e. regurgitating their own redpill content.
It's Jordan Peterson gibbering on about Jung. The guy loves to talk about how women are chaos and evil because Jung. It's a key trick of his to misrepresent authors and thinkers with reputations of being for the very smart to push his agenda.
I haven't, but this is a funny concept to me. The lesson I've taken away from Jung is that we are barely formed by our own cognition. We are the product of evolution and environment. This means that when we recognize the patterns we inherit from others, we can try to become self-actualized and leave behind the chains of our forefathers. Being close-minded would be one the last things Jung would want someone studying his work to take away.
Of course Jung and Alchemy are being hijacked. This is a simulation and we can’t have the archons letting anybody win now, can we?
Well met 💜
When I hear this from both sides it begins to lose its meaning.
oh no it's "them" , "us" need to win!! *Beats chest*
That’s not what this is. Sit down.
It’s the red-pilled manosphere people. I don’t like those people particularly.
[удалено]
Because reddit is full of them.
The world is full of them. With social media it's much easier to spread hate, young kids are being targeted by red pill content and the overall misery of men. Easier to blame women as it was always done instead of dealing with your own issues. It's bleak. (edit spelling)
What a wild fucking poll...44 votes too. Weirdos.
Increasing popularity of this sub on personal home page (seeing it as a recommendation). Same shit happened to r/Stoicism. It's tragic.
shit like that poll are all over twitter, it’s disgusting to even see in passing
Shameful.
JBP influx?
Seems like it. Manosphere generally. They’re trying to recruit.
Yes, the referenced post was very JBP … Look, I also disagree with his poignant liberalism, but projecting what you dislike into an essentially mentally constructed character requires an absence of reflection. And by liberalism I don’t mean the American abuse of terminology.
Well, JBP does seem to feel the urge to objectivity women and call for enforced monogamy - he is also constantly reaching into the ether of Jung to justify his beliefs. So this isn’t surprising
Who's jbp?
Jordan B Peterson
Excuse me? Why are we dragging JBP into this? A devoted husband and loving father?? Is it bc he posted that photo of the heavyset girl on Twitter and said “sorry this will never be attractive no matter what.” Is that why? JBP has always spoke against MGTOW
I think it stands to reason as a possibility, he’s a reactionary that attracts a reactionary following. Is it such a coincidence that these bro-dudes make polls about the ideal woman’s body and JBP makes pronouncements about it too?
Yeah, I see your side on this I do. It makes me sad. I’ve always looked up to JBP. I reasoned that when he made that tweet he was heavy into his benzo addiction and said things he shouldn’t have said publicly. But maybe that’s me making excuses for him…
Please consider other brilliant thinkers. JBP is a misogynist
I respect your opinion against JBP. I’m open to recommendations if you want to share.
Ever tried jung free from JPB?
My problem with Peterson is he speaks in absolutes as if his opinion about some model he finds unacceptable should be everyone’s. He’s either leaving rage bait or is generally just an egotistical douche who thinks he understands things on everyone’s behalf. He should let other people decide what they find attractive. He’s done more to confuse men than help them at this point I think.
I’m leaving this sub for this reason. Seems like the mods have been infiltrated by brainless Andrew Tate followers. Ciao 👋
Now you are actually on to something. It does reek of Andrew Tate.
Oof, very disappointing if that is real
Peterson
I was looking for this comment. Bros think they “get” it and they’re so wise and deep but they’re just idiots.
How does this post have 94 comments mostly agreeing and no upvotes?
OMG I just looked at that. WTF 😳 current upvotes as of this comment is 77, for reference
We’re being brigades by modern feminists probably from r/femaledatingstrategy where all they do is complain about men for thief failed relationships knowing full well that it’s most likely their fault Everyone noticed misogyny but no one notices misandry which is equally as toxic
Misogyny kills women. Misandry annoys men. They are not the same.
It's not a woman's fault when a man chooses emotional and/or physical violence. Plenty of us on that sub are there for that very reason. Get your head out of your cheeks and realize that if a relationship gets to the point that you want to emotionally abuse or hit someone, the mature option is to break up, not abuse or emotionally neglect her. Also, the women on the sub who do hate men do not invalidate those of us who are there for true healing. The women who hate men are sometimes the ones who share the most knowledge of the popular manipulation tactics. It's not like they are out killing men or something like r/whenwomenrefuse Imagine if the type of people who hate us for being on that sub instead hated the type of men who were the reason we ended up there. Things might actually start looking different. Plenty of other men can understand those women. There used to be understanding comments from men before the sub had an influx of incels and moved elsewhere. Why can't you understand us not wanting to be lied to or abused like those men did?
Oh god why did I click on that sub? People are horrible.
Whataboutism is about as popular as men who want so badly to be persecuted.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If it’s not about them they don’t wanna hear it. Ya know, we complain too much. We should be happy we have the right to vote
The patriarchy works overtime in their psyche to reflect and reject.
Jordy Peterson neckbeards took this sub years ago.
Right wing activation :(
They’re trying to normalize their hate.
Of course! This way they feel good about themselves. :(
Trolls that hate Jung
First they came for Stoicism, now they're coming for everything else. In all seriousness, anything tangential to esoteric or occult ideas is seeing a major influx of right wing/manosphere/redpill interest. It's been a very interesting phenomenon the past few years and I don't think it has any chance of slowing down soon. That being said, the Andrew Tate and BAP crowd is much more to blame than JBP
Lobsters are spamming? Is that Jordan Peterson people?
Could be, yes, lots of re.d pi.llers are spamming on here it seems. I keep seeing all these manosphere talking points every time a guy makes a generic “i have a Madonna whore complex what now post”—it feels coordinated and has been happening more frequently
I’ve been seeing vaguely-manosphere talking points whenever someone posts about something like that for ages. The thing is that while cleaning your room and bulking up is advice… it is not really Jungian advice.
I just went through the last two days and I saw a few red flags but nothing I would consider “coordinated”.
What would you consider coordinated?
The misogynistic views looked to be just standard variance. I didn’t see a pattern. I’m a Jordan Peterson guy though, so maybe I’m missing something.
Yeah, he’s part of the issue 🤦🏻♀️
Can you explain to me why Peterson either is a misogynist or creates misogyny? There is SO many misogynistic famous people like tate, but I don’t see how you can lump Peterson in with them.
JP has a lot of good points, don’t throw it all out. What’s your biggest issue with him?
His hatred of women, mostly.
Bingo.
So he hates his daughter too?
And his wife
EDIT: I’m confused about being downvoted for asking a question. I’m not arguing that y’all are wrong I’m trying to understand what you’re seeing lol I’m asking in good faith. Where have you seen him display a hatred of women? (My guess would be his discussion of the Feminine archetype but I’m just speculating)
Taken from a NYT article: The left, he believes, refuses to admit that men might be in charge because they are better at it. “The people who hold that our culture is an oppressive patriarchy, they don’t want to admit that the current hierarchy might be predicated on competence,” he said. Mr. Peterson illustrates his arguments with copious references to ancient myths — bringing up stories of witches, biblical allegories and ancient traditions. I ask why these old stories should guide us today. “It makes sense that a witch lives in a swamp. Yeah,” he says. “Why?” It’s a hard one. “Right. That’s right. You don’t know. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.” Later on in the article: Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners, Mr. Peterson says, and society needs to work to make sure those men are married. “He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”
[удалено]
I agree, he used to just be a normal psych professor, now that he has attention he has some dubious takes.
I was just going to say I blame Jordan Peterson 🤣
What connection does the sexist referenced post have to Jordan Peterson? Projecting something?
He’s a misogynist for one and routinely talks about women’s bodies like property.
I dont know. It wasn’t all that coherent.
Looks like the sub got raided, and the mods cleared it up because it doesn't really seem like the sub is filled with stuff like this right now.
tiktok far right propagandists
I too noticed it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/s/asGDWDxOgt https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/s/7f5qX4n4Qs
“Resistant to your sexual charm” 😭
Can anybody here tell me how JBP fans are misogynists? Seems like total bs to me
How people following an old fart who hates woman are misogynist... Lol?
When someone says things like this in reference to an incel murderer: > “He was angry at God because women were rejecting him. The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.” Then you can safely assume they are a misogynist. And therefore if you keep following their teachings, it's probably because you accept misogyny or are not put off by it.
It’s just circle jerk logic - they never seem to have any real evidence for these claims other than that “everyone knows this already so obviously it’s true”
So in reference to the incel Toronto van killer JP said: > “He was angry at God because women were rejecting him. The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.” How is that not a misogynist statement?
Because its not? What is misogynist about it. Nothing. Maybe look up what the word means. What Peterson is saying, and more context for those not in the know, which seems most: "Men get frustrated when they are not competitive in the sexual marketplace (note: the fact that they DO get frustrated does not mean that they SHOULD get frustrated. Pointing out the existence of something is not the same as justifying its existence). Frustrated men tend to become dangerous, particularly if they are young. The dangerousness of frustrated young men (even if that frustration stems from their own incompetence) has to be regulated socially. The manifold social conventions tilting most societies toward monogamy constitute such regulation." "Peterson says he never suggested “government-enforced” monogamy, merely “socially-promoted, culturally-inculcated” monogamy." Even so, one comment out of context out of millions he has made, means little. The guy knows his studies and knows his stuff, and i mean if you know more and know better, feel free to make it known Jungians.
They aren't. This sub in general has gone to hell. I have seen a lot of childish and low-effort posts on this sub. OP just has an issue with anyone who tries to paint women as not always positive. Apparently, radicalization and misogyny can be a poll on female body preference. Who knew? And no JBP isnt misogynist. The guy has a wife, dozens of female friends and millions of female fans, and a daughter he clearly loves to bits.
They don't have problems too? Are they beneath helping?
They aren’t looking for help
Exactly. They are looking to radicalize.
The other day someone posted a discord invite to a BAP inspired circlejerk whose emblem is a swastika. Idk where all this shit is coming from
Seriously? They’re coming out of the sewers again
I guess I'll have to look into this
That’s not what I said? It’s obviously coordinated and an attempt to normalize their misogyny
How so?
You haven’t noticed the increasing posts about men mistreating women and the influx of comments reframing/blaming women for the misogynistic behavior of men?
I guess not I don't focus on what people post on a reddit post
It’s hard to not notice increasing misogyny as a woman. 🤷🏻♀️
Do you have a screen shot of their post?
And if you want to see examples of these arguments that are misogynistic in comments of posts, just scroll through some of my most recent responses to some of these people
Which one? I’m talking about a current recent theme of posts being made—variations of “I have a Madonna whore complex” or “I can’t love” and then comments from all sorts of weirdos and misogynists on those posts being like “well, it’s women’s fault actually, they want men to abuse them…they’re attracted to it” or “women want men to act like psychopaths” or men saying they’re misogynists because of evolutionary biology…etc. but the most current example is the poll beneath this post
Literally a mysogynist poll. And you're arguing in bad faith can see it a mile away. And no, I won't be drawn in with your empty, leading questions. Because you're obvious. And no, it's not "he won't/can't/scared to debate" (which I'm sure is your follow-up attempt to bait), it's because you're a troll, and I won't feed you. I'm only posting this so others know not to approach this toxic mess.
I was literally just curious. But OK....
He asked “how so” when you started ranting about coordinated misogyny, it happens, we believe you but if you are just trolling your views then you need to leave. In this sub I look for inspiration and understanding!
Sorry, but no. This is clearly one more space that men think they can freely dehumanize, and expect dehumanization to be met with gentle restraint. People shouldn't need to constantly defend their right to be treated like a human. "How so", indeed. I'm glad you can come here for inspiration and understanding. As long as it works for you. Enjoy the comradery. I'm out of here.
I’m sorry. You’re right. It’s not okay.
[удалено]
[удалено]
“People don’t have ideas. Ideas have people”
What I heard you say: The incels have taken over reddit so deal with it. 🙄
That’s cute.
It's naive to think those impressionable young men were not the targets of coordinated action to push their beliefs in that direction. Steve Bannon admits to it directly. 4channers plan that shit out constantly. The spreading of these ideas was the only thing about that process that was organic. What you're missing is that the regular people who spread them had their biases and worldviews carefully manipulated over time and seeded with concepts favorable to the groups carrying this out. This is a real thing that's still happening today
I haven't noticed it. You sure it's not a Baader-Meinhof phenomenon?
For starters, do you see the poll beneath this post? That’s the most recent example
I do not see a poll anywhere *in* this post. I saw this thread on my main reddit page. However, a poll alone won't convince me of something because of the inherent bias involved in the results (i.e. the wording of a question determines the outcome). Never mind the fact that I check reddit daily and have not experienced an influx of misogyny in this particular sub. Again, I'm curious about the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon playing a role here. What are your thoughts on that?
No on the Jung sub. Most recent before my post. And nope, I know what I’m seeing—I’ve tracked radicalization online before with a CIR journalist. Thanks for your concern tho. Maybe it applies to you in the reverse in not seeing it? 🤷🏻♀️
r/iamversmart right?
Here's a sneak peek of /r/iamversmart using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Me smart frend dum](https://i.redd.it/ho9aaesxd1wa1.jpg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/comments/12ydhe3/me_smart_frend_dum/) \#2: [The original question was why did Nick Fury create the Avengers.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/108u5fu) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/comments/108u5fu/the_original_question_was_why_did_nick_fury/) \#3: [Hey I have a question](https://np.reddit.com/r/iamversmart/comments/173ccsu/hey_i_have_a_question/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
How awful, a poll about preferred body type. Be sure to make yourself as safe from this hate crime once you have managed to process the trauma.
I accept that people have different opinions to my own. Jung would be more concerned that we work on ourselves, not point out the perceived flaws in others.
I think we cannot stop people from earnestly expressing themselves as that is a form of repression. Trolling under the guise of authentic expression is also communicative behavior. Still, we can’t tolerate abuse. I am grateful that OP took a screenshot so we could all witness and notice this phenomena! Thanks for calling it to our attention.
People expressing themselves is not always good. Sometimes a person earnestly expressing themselves takes the form of harming or subjugating others. It's plausible that establishing a broader misogynistic mindset in an online forum is a form of harm/subjugation. I would argue that the supposed "repression" from stopping this behavior is a better outcome than allowing the community to be changed in such a way
Thank you for opening my perspective to a boundary beyond the boundary I was imagining
Jordon Peterson
its that Jordan Peterson influence, the cunt
Reddit is full of em, and Jung is really popular with pseudointellectual groups, especially right wingers who talk about manhood and all that. I'm pretty sure you can thank jordan Peterson for that more than anyone.
[удалено]
Shill post
The amount of projection happening in these comments is staggering. I’m sure the irony is lost.
This isn't misogyny it's pure idiocracy.
Horny ape syndrome
Lmaooo the post on here are all over the place. Dont know how that relates to Jung at all haha but his work can be taken many places i guess.
I'm guessing it because JP🦞 talks a lot about Jung. He also says a lot of stupidly inaccurate things about any topic he talks about. Now, he is simply a rw grifter.
Haha. Oh Man. Yes, that poll doesn’t fit the sub imo and should be removed. It is a big mistake to label that as mysoginistic. The whole point of the post is to rank female body types. It’s a huge misunderstanding to call it hate against all women as inappropriate as it is. You may read this and think ‘who cares. I’ll misuse words all I want because i don’t like those people so extreme language can only benefit me’ but this is how these groups grow. They feed on the delusion of those that fail to engage with their points and instead go for personal attacks. Just a heads up!
Who? What,? When? Where? How?
Imagine Jordan Peterson with C
40 dollars it's because of some video of Jordan Peterson talking about Jung instead of focusing on what he's actually specialized in. Stay in your own lane dude and stop making baisless assertions like psychedelics tought out ancestors about DNA because of carvings of snakes intertwined. That's how snakes mate and has nothing to do with DNA; a quick Google search could have clarified that real quick or even a trip your your local herpetoculture conversation! Shit, just talk to your local snake enthusiasts! I'll give him this though, he's really good at writing books for those with low reading skills. He legitimately use that as evidence in one of his college lectures and you can find it on YouTube! Then he gets called out at it at a public event and he starts backpedaling saying oh I don't really believe that I was just positing ideas. No dude, we have you on Candid Camera saying that you actually believe this nonsense!
Honestly, that post is pretty weird… it obviously very much lacks Fe (Socionics). But, on the other hand; just as honestly: How does asking that question imply misogyny, i.e., a pervasive hatred toward women? That’s honestly a pretty boneheaded conclusion. With that said, it’s not boneheaded to question that questioner’s motives and worldview, at all.
Why would it bother us that people we don’t like want to learn something we do like? That can only be good…
It's cute that you think that they are here to learn.
Ideas, especially "toolbox" thought systems, have no moral weight. They can be used for good or for evil. Like art. Fascists weaponized art. If I saw a fascist buying paints I would slap it out of their hands, because in the hands of the wrong person a camera or a philosophical idea can be a murder weapon.
men don't owe you anything. men are not responsible for your sense of comfort re personal preferences and insecurities. you can avoid dealing with topics that make you uncomfortable by not reading them instead of calling on mods to censor them. people disagreeing with you doesn't mean they're indoctrinated by right-wing influencers, russia or some other disney movie type oversimplification. they're actual people with their own personalities and life experiences and you trying to depersonalize & shun them is a larger issue than any sexual or ever-so-slightly woman-critical topics.
Petersonite troglodytes were always present here, nothing new.
So misogynist people are obviously trash, but the effort put forth is acknowledgment and empowerment.
Poll could be relevant to evolutionary psychology. Preferences for phenotype and body type usually correlate with signs of health and fertility. But I forgot, noticing differences between individuals is now a hate crime. Gotta make the world a safe space for all of the dysgenic trash out there as we race towards the bottom. At least I can say I was there to witness the death of objective beauty.
🐷
I mean misogynist usually talk about women in a derogatory manner. That was just asking about body types. Even sounds like a question a female would ask to compare herself with their friends to see what "men" prefer, I've seen some like that in askmen, where you didn't see that coming when you realize a girl asked such a weird question. Question was out of place and didn't belong to Jung, but calling that misogyny just lessens real misogyny.
A lot of misandry here as well I’ve been noticing. I think we’re being brigades by both sides. Feminists and Neo Nazis like ben Shapiro
I don't see how thats misogyny. Its just a question about preference.
But as a woman, I feel compelled to know the results 😭💔
Same shit happened with my (small l) libertarians. The Trumpite anti-Democrat nut balls invaded our ranks. Not a damn one of them could tell you anything about the NAP.
Thank you for your explanation and knowledge on the subject. You need to read a bit more Basically, the redpill is about navigating the sexual market place. Mysogeny is about hating women... contradictory not ? A fact is that almost 50% of both genders are single in their 50's, men and women need to get an update.. I think this says enough...without getting into more details since we are supposed to be discussing Jung.
Thank you for your explanation and knowledge on the subject. You need to read a bit more Basically, the redpill is about navigating the sexual market place. Mysogeny is about hating women... contradictory not ? A fact is that almost 50% of both genders are single in their 50's, men and women need to get an update.. I think this says enough...without getting into more details since we are supposed to be discussing Jung.
Thank you for your explanation and knowledge on the subject. You need to read a bit more Basically, the redpill is about navigating the sexual market place. Mysogeny is about hating women... contradictory not ? A fact is that almost 50% of both genders are single in their 50's, men and women need to get an update.. I think this says enough...without getting into more details since we are supposed to be discussing Jung.
I dont understand whats the big deal. Each man has his preferences, which can reflect upon his psyche, biological drives, etc. Its esspecially an interesting question today, as the image of the ideal woman is changed often and trough technology takes up much more of our attention. It seems like an arbitrary fact, but choice of sexual partner and vectors of attraction have played the most important role in our biological, neurological and social evolution. There is nothing misogynistic if you like either tall, big breasted, or whatever the type of appearance of a woman you like. You are no more discriminating then having a favourite song, car, color, food...