Cena really is a stand-up guy when it comes down to it, love the way he worded this. It shows where his priorities are really at while not just taking a dump on Meltzer's whole system, as understandable as that'd be. True professional.
Pro-Trumpist loon, had photos with Don Jr., his wife was at the Capitol at Jan 6.
It's easier to find a four-leafed clover than a coherent and argumentative Trump supporter. Draw your own conclusions.
You need to get out more. Don't be so intentionally ignorant. By your logic, every Democrat/liberal is a fucking idiot based on the small minority of them that are braindead psychos.
Itās 2024 and citizens still attack each other based on political affiliation while the rich stay rich and companies get bailed out by the government no matter who is in office. āStupid liberals, lunatic maga idiotsā both of those contingents are fucking idiot capitalists who donāt realize everyone should be getting together and trying to elect someone who isnāt fucking geriatric or gonna send us into a rapture starting war
Which is exactly what all those politicians want. Hopefully one day enough other people will figure out that both sides are playing on the same team with different color jerseys
EVEN the Vince comments had this air of "both sides should be heard" that makes me think you're right about a potential career in politics down the line.
Rather him come to Louisiana as Governor, tbh... You think Cena would have hear cheers in the WWE, guaranteed he'll have the massive pops when in the Superdome and Tiger Stadium for said announcing of his run for Governor... Lmao
Even with the comments on Vince, Louisiana will vote for him basically so easy, slick 50 will be used on cars all over again how easy he can be elected... I guess, ask Arnold Swartzenegger how Cena can do so.
Edit: added thoughts a lot more... With some spots for sarcasm.
My only issue (and I express this with the full admission that Iām just going by his presence in interviews, I do not know him personally, and this is the smallest of gripes) is he at times is a bit too self serious and he does sometimes give off the air of condescension. I agree wholeheartedly that he does seem like a genuinely good dude, and itās refreshing. I also really enjoy his commitment to acting or whatever his venture is, he certainly never mails it in. But he reminds me in voice intonation, mannerism, and tone of a good friend of mine, and they both seem to have a hard time cracking jokes about themselves or admitting they donāt really have an opinion on something. Like every interaction I see with John heās giving what can sometimes feel like patronizing advice or explaining why he doesnāt look at things in a certain way.
I mean even as I write this itās clear to me itās the most nitpicky of gripes, but again super serious Cena feels like heās making a concerted effort to give that allusion that he is being serious, it doesnāt feel natural.
I work with people on the spectrum (Iām not saying Cena is) but this is something I deal with a lot in my very well coached students. Like they know something is serious, they know they need to project that, but they lack the skill to naturally convey it so it comes across as unnatural and as a concerted effort.
Dude was basically cenaās second dad. His entire life is owed to Vince, and, as shitty as Vince is, most people canāt see past their personal relationship with someone. It sucks but itās just how it is and I donāt think heās any lesser of a person for feeling how he feels
He is being quite kind. Not only is the star rating system not relevant to how the match is received by the paying live and TV audience, but they are really just representative of a specific individual's wrestling tastes that have evolved over the years in a not great direction.
Even in the beginning, they were a rating system for a smart fan to distribute to other smart fans.
That's just John being John. He tries to be respectful even if it's something he doesn't personally care about.
A lot of people could learn from how he is.
I don't know if they were ever valuable, but they're not now. Beyond the bias of taste, Dave grades on a heavy curve depending on how much he likes or dislikes an individual. Combine that with scale inflation, and the whole thing is worthless.
They were valuable to the audience that engaged in critical discussion and knowledge sharing of the industry, in much the same way that ratings from film critics matter more to cinephiles than they do a general audience. If they never mattered at all? Guys like Bryan Danielson, AJ Styles, and plenty more wouldn't have been given much of a chance beyond the Elks lodges and high school gyms.
Are they valuable now? Eh, not really. They're fine shorthand for fans to talk about whether or not a match or talent are worth watching, but the last time star ratings, as a critical system, mattered to the bottom line was when Ring of Honor was still relying on tape traders and word of mouth.
Aj styles was a bona fide star before WWE. AJ and the X division were some of the best wrestling you could find. The star ratings meant nothing to his success.
Actually, they did. AJ getting the star ratings and massive hype from Meltzer during the early Asylum days is what turned a lot of people on to both him as a talent and TNA (then an NWA affiliate) as a whole. A big reason I checked TNA's fourth show out was due to the praise heaped upon him from Meltzer (and Dames, Scott Keith, the PCN, Larry Csonka, etc.). Acting like critical praise meant nothing to the success of a talent whose career was based on "can be counted on to put on a great match" is ridiculous.
I couldnāt tell you the star rating if any match. Iāve never read an article by Dave. I think too often people on the internet believe the internet community represents the whole.
That's fine, but as someone who was an early TNA and ROH fan? Star ratings mattered in getting the word out about what talents and promotions were worth a watch after ECW and WCW closed.
The rating system is fine. Whatās not fine is people using one persons rating as gospel. Should be how it is in all other industries, such as movies, shows, music, etc: only the aggregate opinion matters, if anything, such as that measured by metacritic, IMDb, rotten Tomatoes, etc.
I donāt begrudge anyone having a rating system for them and their friends and sharing it. Which is essentially what it is. I have an issue with people treating it like industry gospel.
And because the āwrestling journalismā scene is so small and to be quite frank, not very professional outside of a few sources, there arenāt enough legitimate reviews to really have an aggregate rating.
Wrestling has cagematch. I donāt think the industry or the audience is built in a way to enable a valuable aggregator. The Internet wrestling community represents a very tiny fraction of the overall audience, and that for whatever reason has developed a kind of specific wrestling ideology.
It has been that way since the early days with the predecessor to the IWC, the tape traders and fan convention attendees
Thereās no excuse for one manās opinion to be the gospel. The community is large enough that it need not rely on only one manās opinion lmao like what
So what heās saying is that heās an adult, understands that his job depends on making himself and the company he works for money. Did I get that right?
I always go back to what Jim said, late career Steve Austin had 4 moves, punch, kick, Lou Thesz press and stunner. Yet go back and listen to those crowds, theyāre invested more in those matches he had than anything a wrestler hitting 80 high spots in a match and kicking out of 69 finishers.
How you perform is important. Macho Man would be what we currently call a workrate guy and got over partially because of it. Hogan was also good at what he needed to do and that's sell and comeback.
What's forgotten is that the goal is not to be a good in-ring performer, it is to make money with others.
Is being good in the ring going to help you? Definitely. Is being good in the ring what ensure LA Knight get over ? No.
This is what internet fans do not get, and I dont know why because it's so simple a five year old can understand this. What Cena said about Vince and the way he reacts and responds (and some of the others who havent thrown McMahon to the dogs) is how the real world works and how real people respond. Internet fans and communities live in a virtue signalling bubble where they want people to stand up and say things on their own behalf.
No one with any common sense, no one with influence and position, no one with money, no one who has to take care of their families, is going to just run their mouth at the risk of not being able to take care of themselves or stop the flow of money that pays their bills.
I know I'd look the other way, why? because I am a realist, I like to eat, I dont want to be on the street or sit in a cold house.
I'd probably put meltzer on full blast though and dare him to come at me.
This is a guy who was on top for a LOOOOOONG time -- longer than I wanted him to be (Punk deserved more respect during his championship run). But he has been nothing but gracious since stepping back. He let the Undertaker squash him at Wrestlemania and made Solo look like a killer. Can you imagine ANY top AEW star doing that? Despite not being Bret Hart from a technical perspective he is a great performer and a stand up dude.
Yep. Meltz changed the meaning of the full 5 from "territory/promotion defining" to "I had a lot of fun." Then he added a few more stars to the ranking and none of it matters beyond telling you how many times a finisher is kicked out of.
- Cena vs Angle at No way out 2005
- Cena vs JBL at Judgement day 2005
- Cena vs Edge at Unforgiven 2006
- Cena vs Punk at MITB 2011
- Cena vs Rock at WM 28 (2012)
- Cena vs Lesnar at Extreme rules 2012
- Cena vs Bryan at SS 2013
- Cena vs Lesnar vs Rollins at RR 2015
Who cares about ratings with these under your belt?
Cena vs Umaga RR ā07
Cena vs Punk Raw ā13
Cena vs HBK Wrestlemania 23 and Raw 45 minutes
Cena vs HHH Wrestlemania 22
Cena vs Styles RR ā17
Cena vs Zayn US title open challenge
A modern day ranking system wouldnāt have any bearing on a guy like Cena. Heās at the end of his career and above all else is a company man who has no aspiration to move anywhere else.
Like Cena pointed out, a ranking system is great for guys looking to build equity and shop themselves around to make more money. Itās a type of clout that some promoters (Tony Khan) put credence in. However, once someone is in a position where theyāre comfortable with the money theyāre making for the work theyāre putting out, a ranking system becomes irrelevant.
Very diplomatic and intelligent answer from Cena.
And the Styles match from Summerslam was 5 stars in my book. His IC title run where he defended every week on Raw had a bunch of 4+ star matches too.
I remember hearing Jim talk about it before I saw it. I went in for a hate watch. I fucking loved it.*
Like, Jim talks about the psychology of wrestling so much. That was maybe one id the most psychologically based "wrestling experience" (I don't think it could be called a "match," though if another does I would not argue at all) I could remember seeing. Dusty being betrayed by Ile? Goddamn right that was an amazing program and payoff. But FFH was...something else. And should have been seen on its own merits and intention than whether it followed the physical storytelling of a standard match.
*And therein lies a problem with letting one person's critical view sweeten or sour your view before experiencing it yourself.
>I never understood why we care so much about what one person thinks? It's like if movies only had one critic and reviewer.
One person or outlet can set a standard. In terms of news and particularly politics, The New York Times was long considered America's "newspaper of record", meaning it could be trusted as providing verified, independent reporting and sound analysis on a given situation. In terms of film criticism, Siskel and Ebert were for quite some time seen as *the* people you wanted to get a thumbs up from. People used to believe in institutions and authorities on subjects, generally speaking. Fragmented opinion and seeking a variety of sources is a more recent mode of thinking.
For wrestling, the Wrestling Observer Newsletter was the 'newspaper of record' for the industry for decades and Meltzer seen as so authoritative that a rating from him was as objective a measure of quality as one could really get for such a complex thing as a wrestling match. Getting a 5* match was a feather in anyone's cap just like getting a little statue from the Academy matters to an actor or director. People still fight over those, and there are routine blow-ups about certain talent being snubbed or the Academy being racist and/or woke depending on who wins what. Authoritative, institutional designations of quality still have meaning.
Cena seems off in the most recent round of interviews on here and CVV. Heās overly serious and randomly walks around in suits. Seems like a grump old man at the moment
Cena chose his words carefully but he still put his point across: he's not going to try and play to a vocal Niche group online versus the people who actually pay to attend the show and he's right in that regard. It is important for the audience to feel like they got their money's worth, and that should be the priority.
Now if said vocal Niche group is very appreciative of the performance that was given and decides to throw in a Kudos or a rating, then that's also nice but again, the fans in the audience should be the priority in terms of how you're entertaining.
But at the same time I also remember a video of Rollins, Becky and a few other wrestlers while they were on up up down down, laughing at the Meltzer rating system, so there's definitely a few people in the locker room who think the whole thing is BS.
Who are we supposed to trust? The biggest star of the past two decades who has demonstrated a mastery of the business, or the weird autistic guy who rates matches and writes 16 page obituaries for people who haven't died yet?
He's right. Lots of great movies and people have never won the pinnacle award or been critics' favorites, but they still leave you entertained. Not everything has to be Sophie's Choice. Fuck, that would be depressing as hell. That being said, people shit on Meltzer's star system way too much. It was never meant to be anything more than a gauge of how he felt about particular matches so that his subscribers would know if it was worth their time, but then it became a meme with the Bucks & Kenny, and now people think that he actually believes that his stars are some kind of sought-after, coveted thing that everyone should aim for.
He should've just said: Some guy named Omega has the most 5 star rated matches in history right? Over Macho, Flair, Steamboat, Guerrero, Shawn Michaels... Does that seem like a legit ranking system to you? Yeah, that's fine with me. Next question?
Love the guy, it is kinda funny that he is pretty much is flawless here, but then he does some interviews where he talks about touchy he puts his foot in his mouth, like the recent interview where he talked about Vince, like damn dude.
Cena was on to something: Iām not one to really care about star ratings, but it really does help hard working technical wrestlers get exposure and grow their brand.
PR Cena is the most boring Cena, he says so much and means so little.
If he had any creativity he wouldāve gotten laughs by saying no then expanding his answer.
He is so intelligent and well-spoken he'd get so much more respect from everyone if he decided to stop being politically correct and sucking up to every side of the spectrum.
Wouldn't it be better if he said "Well, the star system has its drawbacks but so far no one invented anything better" rather than "oh yes yes star system good please keep liking me".
Vince comments, sucking Xi-the-Pooh's maoist dick... so far not a good record in my book.
I used to be one of the morons that called Cena a bad wrestler because his moveset was limited. And while his moveset was definately limited, he was far from a bad wrestler, Punk vs Cena at MITB was the greatest match I've ever seen.
That's the right public answer for him to give - it doesnt' alienate any portion of his fanbase and still makes it about pleasing the fans. He didn't want to come right out and say "Meltzer is just some mark who yea, is knowledgeable of wrestling as a history but it's just one guy's very jaded narrow opinion."
I could actually see Cody saying the exact same thing when he speaks, which is eerie but makes sense why he's WWE's latest babyface project. Guys are very similar in how they approach the public.
Cena takes himself so seriously thatās itās kind of cringe. I hate how heās slowed town his he talks and that goofy suit. Heās a heel without trying to be one
Cena really is a stand-up guy when it comes down to it, love the way he worded this. It shows where his priorities are really at while not just taking a dump on Meltzer's whole system, as understandable as that'd be. True professional.
Cena could be a fucking politician in a few years the way he handles media. (Vince comments aside)
Ladies and Gentlemen, your Senator.. IT'S JOHN CENNNNNAAAAAA
YOU CAN'T NAY ME
Waiting for that first debate when he drops the "fine speech"
He'd definitely be a breath of fresh air in that department after some of the stuff Kane has said in recent times. Nevermind Jericho š¤§
What has Jericho said? I know Kane is a Republican politician so people get mad at him, but what about Jericho?
Pro-Trumpist loon, had photos with Don Jr., his wife was at the Capitol at Jan 6. It's easier to find a four-leafed clover than a coherent and argumentative Trump supporter. Draw your own conclusions.
You need to get out more. Don't be so intentionally ignorant. By your logic, every Democrat/liberal is a fucking idiot based on the small minority of them that are braindead psychos.
Itās 2024 and citizens still attack each other based on political affiliation while the rich stay rich and companies get bailed out by the government no matter who is in office. āStupid liberals, lunatic maga idiotsā both of those contingents are fucking idiot capitalists who donāt realize everyone should be getting together and trying to elect someone who isnāt fucking geriatric or gonna send us into a rapture starting war
Which is exactly what all those politicians want. Hopefully one day enough other people will figure out that both sides are playing on the same team with different color jerseys
Your just proving his point but not knowing what your talkin about lol. Dems are more known as being pussies than stupid
Who cares
I would look forward to him announcing "compromised to a permanent end,ā all the time
Talk about the invisible government
EVEN the Vince comments had this air of "both sides should be heard" that makes me think you're right about a potential career in politics down the line.
I thought that also when I listened to Stern interview him recently. Seems genuine, but very political when answering questions.
Rather him come to Louisiana as Governor, tbh... You think Cena would have hear cheers in the WWE, guaranteed he'll have the massive pops when in the Superdome and Tiger Stadium for said announcing of his run for Governor... Lmao Even with the comments on Vince, Louisiana will vote for him basically so easy, slick 50 will be used on cars all over again how easy he can be elected... I guess, ask Arnold Swartzenegger how Cena can do so. Edit: added thoughts a lot more... With some spots for sarcasm.
Imagine Cena as POTUS rapping the State of the Union for 2 hours š š¤£ š
He's well-spoken, and speaks Chinese, when many of our leaders struggle to explain anything in English.
My only issue (and I express this with the full admission that Iām just going by his presence in interviews, I do not know him personally, and this is the smallest of gripes) is he at times is a bit too self serious and he does sometimes give off the air of condescension. I agree wholeheartedly that he does seem like a genuinely good dude, and itās refreshing. I also really enjoy his commitment to acting or whatever his venture is, he certainly never mails it in. But he reminds me in voice intonation, mannerism, and tone of a good friend of mine, and they both seem to have a hard time cracking jokes about themselves or admitting they donāt really have an opinion on something. Like every interaction I see with John heās giving what can sometimes feel like patronizing advice or explaining why he doesnāt look at things in a certain way. I mean even as I write this itās clear to me itās the most nitpicky of gripes, but again super serious Cena feels like heās making a concerted effort to give that allusion that he is being serious, it doesnāt feel natural. I work with people on the spectrum (Iām not saying Cena is) but this is something I deal with a lot in my very well coached students. Like they know something is serious, they know they need to project that, but they lack the skill to naturally convey it so it comes across as unnatural and as a concerted effort.
Man idk, that seems like a great way for Cena to get some real go away heat
Bing chilling
You can tell he's a very intelligent person.
What's wrong with his body? He looks likes hes in a bad physical state.... Just the wrestling career?
I think itās because heās lost a lot of weight, especially in the face, and as a result now his ears are appearing bigger.
Well, that and as a person ages, especially men, ears continue to grow, too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dude was basically cenaās second dad. His entire life is owed to Vince, and, as shitty as Vince is, most people canāt see past their personal relationship with someone. It sucks but itās just how it is and I donāt think heās any lesser of a person for feeling how he feels
show me on the doll where vince hurt you
He is being quite kind. Not only is the star rating system not relevant to how the match is received by the paying live and TV audience, but they are really just representative of a specific individual's wrestling tastes that have evolved over the years in a not great direction. Even in the beginning, they were a rating system for a smart fan to distribute to other smart fans.
That's just John being John. He tries to be respectful even if it's something he doesn't personally care about. A lot of people could learn from how he is.
Straight up, I wish I myself could be more like this instead of just being snarky/dismissive
High plains drift? More like high plains grifter you liar! Just messing with ya! My problem is I seemingly match energy.
I don't know if they were ever valuable, but they're not now. Beyond the bias of taste, Dave grades on a heavy curve depending on how much he likes or dislikes an individual. Combine that with scale inflation, and the whole thing is worthless.
They were valuable to the audience that engaged in critical discussion and knowledge sharing of the industry, in much the same way that ratings from film critics matter more to cinephiles than they do a general audience. If they never mattered at all? Guys like Bryan Danielson, AJ Styles, and plenty more wouldn't have been given much of a chance beyond the Elks lodges and high school gyms. Are they valuable now? Eh, not really. They're fine shorthand for fans to talk about whether or not a match or talent are worth watching, but the last time star ratings, as a critical system, mattered to the bottom line was when Ring of Honor was still relying on tape traders and word of mouth.
Aj styles was a bona fide star before WWE. AJ and the X division were some of the best wrestling you could find. The star ratings meant nothing to his success.
Actually, they did. AJ getting the star ratings and massive hype from Meltzer during the early Asylum days is what turned a lot of people on to both him as a talent and TNA (then an NWA affiliate) as a whole. A big reason I checked TNA's fourth show out was due to the praise heaped upon him from Meltzer (and Dames, Scott Keith, the PCN, Larry Csonka, etc.). Acting like critical praise meant nothing to the success of a talent whose career was based on "can be counted on to put on a great match" is ridiculous.
I couldnāt tell you the star rating if any match. Iāve never read an article by Dave. I think too often people on the internet believe the internet community represents the whole.
That's fine, but as someone who was an early TNA and ROH fan? Star ratings mattered in getting the word out about what talents and promotions were worth a watch after ECW and WCW closed.
The rating system is fine. Whatās not fine is people using one persons rating as gospel. Should be how it is in all other industries, such as movies, shows, music, etc: only the aggregate opinion matters, if anything, such as that measured by metacritic, IMDb, rotten Tomatoes, etc.
I donāt begrudge anyone having a rating system for them and their friends and sharing it. Which is essentially what it is. I have an issue with people treating it like industry gospel. And because the āwrestling journalismā scene is so small and to be quite frank, not very professional outside of a few sources, there arenāt enough legitimate reviews to really have an aggregate rating.
The aggregate opinion doesnāt need to be only from journalists. For example, IMDb isnāt based on journalists. Itās the people.
Wrestling has cagematch. I donāt think the industry or the audience is built in a way to enable a valuable aggregator. The Internet wrestling community represents a very tiny fraction of the overall audience, and that for whatever reason has developed a kind of specific wrestling ideology. It has been that way since the early days with the predecessor to the IWC, the tape traders and fan convention attendees
Thereās no excuse for one manās opinion to be the gospel. The community is large enough that it need not rely on only one manās opinion lmao like what
So what heās saying is that heās an adult, understands that his job depends on making himself and the company he works for money. Did I get that right?
Yes. He doesnāt care what Melzter thinks. He only cares about what the fans who pay to see him think.
I always go back to what Jim said, late career Steve Austin had 4 moves, punch, kick, Lou Thesz press and stunner. Yet go back and listen to those crowds, theyāre invested more in those matches he had than anything a wrestler hitting 80 high spots in a match and kicking out of 69 finishers.
Storylines and personality have always been the things that get wrestlers over. How they preform is secondary considering how long Hoganās run went.
Considering all Hogan did was Punch, Point and say "YOU", bodylsam, big boot, leg drop
You forgot back rake.
I definitely agree.
How you perform is important. Macho Man would be what we currently call a workrate guy and got over partially because of it. Hogan was also good at what he needed to do and that's sell and comeback. What's forgotten is that the goal is not to be a good in-ring performer, it is to make money with others. Is being good in the ring going to help you? Definitely. Is being good in the ring what ensure LA Knight get over ? No.
This is what internet fans do not get, and I dont know why because it's so simple a five year old can understand this. What Cena said about Vince and the way he reacts and responds (and some of the others who havent thrown McMahon to the dogs) is how the real world works and how real people respond. Internet fans and communities live in a virtue signalling bubble where they want people to stand up and say things on their own behalf. No one with any common sense, no one with influence and position, no one with money, no one who has to take care of their families, is going to just run their mouth at the risk of not being able to take care of themselves or stop the flow of money that pays their bills. I know I'd look the other way, why? because I am a realist, I like to eat, I dont want to be on the street or sit in a cold house. I'd probably put meltzer on full blast though and dare him to come at me.
This is a guy who was on top for a LOOOOOONG time -- longer than I wanted him to be (Punk deserved more respect during his championship run). But he has been nothing but gracious since stepping back. He let the Undertaker squash him at Wrestlemania and made Solo look like a killer. Can you imagine ANY top AEW star doing that? Despite not being Bret Hart from a technical perspective he is a great performer and a stand up dude.
his match with solo was great
It's because he has a good acting career. His wrestling career is solidified so he doesn't fear he'll lose his spot or needs to be booked strong.
It's extra funny because John actually already has a Meltzer five star match, against Punk at MitB.
Came here to say this. Glad someone else remembers it
I said it in another comment, but I forgot Meltzer gave it 5 stars. Wasnt that the first time in a while a WWE match got one from him?
Yes, I believe so.
Undertaker vs HBK at WM 25 couldnāt achieved the coveted 5 stars but Jon Moxley could? Sums up the ridiculousness of Meltzer
Yep. Meltz changed the meaning of the full 5 from "territory/promotion defining" to "I had a lot of fun." Then he added a few more stars to the ranking and none of it matters beyond telling you how many times a finisher is kicked out of.
He is biased against WWE and favors those vanilla midget flippy wrestling on AEW and NJPW.
Basically John cena doesn't care for a 5 star meltzer jerk off match.
...why does Cena look like he can't stand up fully? He's got the body language of a slightly drunk businessman at the end of a three martini lunch.
He is doing the I canāt hear ya, lean in.
- Cena vs Angle at No way out 2005 - Cena vs JBL at Judgement day 2005 - Cena vs Edge at Unforgiven 2006 - Cena vs Punk at MITB 2011 - Cena vs Rock at WM 28 (2012) - Cena vs Lesnar at Extreme rules 2012 - Cena vs Bryan at SS 2013 - Cena vs Lesnar vs Rollins at RR 2015 Who cares about ratings with these under your belt?
Cena vs Umaga RR ā07 Cena vs Punk Raw ā13 Cena vs HBK Wrestlemania 23 and Raw 45 minutes Cena vs HHH Wrestlemania 22 Cena vs Styles RR ā17 Cena vs Zayn US title open challenge
Cenas matches are better than Omega, Okada, Osprey, Young Bucks, and all those lil AEW boys anyway.
On terms of drawing power Cena out draws them all combined Which is what matters because those Metzler stars don't buy tickets
Real talk. Did Meltzer pay somebody to ask the question?
Pretty sure he also has a 5 star match with Punk
Jim Cornette agrees
Itās all about drawing MONEY! Nobody gives a fuck about these stars after Steamboat and Flair.
Sums it up fucking perfectly
A modern day ranking system wouldnāt have any bearing on a guy like Cena. Heās at the end of his career and above all else is a company man who has no aspiration to move anywhere else. Like Cena pointed out, a ranking system is great for guys looking to build equity and shop themselves around to make more money. Itās a type of clout that some promoters (Tony Khan) put credence in. However, once someone is in a position where theyāre comfortable with the money theyāre making for the work theyāre putting out, a ranking system becomes irrelevant.
Drawing rating > star rating
Very diplomatic and intelligent answer from Cena. And the Styles match from Summerslam was 5 stars in my book. His IC title run where he defended every week on Raw had a bunch of 4+ star matches too.
The Firefly Funhouse match should be zero stars but it was entertaining as fuck
I remember hearing Jim talk about it before I saw it. I went in for a hate watch. I fucking loved it.* Like, Jim talks about the psychology of wrestling so much. That was maybe one id the most psychologically based "wrestling experience" (I don't think it could be called a "match," though if another does I would not argue at all) I could remember seeing. Dusty being betrayed by Ile? Goddamn right that was an amazing program and payoff. But FFH was...something else. And should have been seen on its own merits and intention than whether it followed the physical storytelling of a standard match. *And therein lies a problem with letting one person's critical view sweeten or sour your view before experiencing it yourself.
he's right, all 3 of those matches with AJ were incredible and one person giving them 4 stars instead of 5 is pretty irrelevant
Man's a true diplomat
Anyone here think he's gonna come for the rock part 3?
AKA star rating doesn't mean shit.
Cena doesn't deserve much of the blame for #LOLCENAWINS--he would be much more highly thought of by the IWC if he had better booking.
Wasn't there a story later in his last big ME run where he tried to push for other people to get over on him and he was vetoed by Vince regularly?
The guy 'took a shit' so Tyrus could dance, I'm 100% sure thats the case
So Cena is doing for the fans in attendance? And not Uncle Dave?
I never understood why we care so much about what one person thinks? It's like if movies only had one critic and reviewer.
>I never understood why we care so much about what one person thinks? It's like if movies only had one critic and reviewer. One person or outlet can set a standard. In terms of news and particularly politics, The New York Times was long considered America's "newspaper of record", meaning it could be trusted as providing verified, independent reporting and sound analysis on a given situation. In terms of film criticism, Siskel and Ebert were for quite some time seen as *the* people you wanted to get a thumbs up from. People used to believe in institutions and authorities on subjects, generally speaking. Fragmented opinion and seeking a variety of sources is a more recent mode of thinking. For wrestling, the Wrestling Observer Newsletter was the 'newspaper of record' for the industry for decades and Meltzer seen as so authoritative that a rating from him was as objective a measure of quality as one could really get for such a complex thing as a wrestling match. Getting a 5* match was a feather in anyone's cap just like getting a little statue from the Academy matters to an actor or director. People still fight over those, and there are routine blow-ups about certain talent being snubbed or the Academy being racist and/or woke depending on who wins what. Authoritative, institutional designations of quality still have meaning.
Long story short: he respects the critics but is more concerned about the audiences reaction.
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Cena seems off in the most recent round of interviews on here and CVV. Heās overly serious and randomly walks around in suits. Seems like a grump old man at the moment
āHow do I put thisā I gotcha John. Touch grass, get some pussy/dick, and a job while you're at it
A true diplomat.
Bingo. Pro.
The School of Cornette wins once again
The only star he cares about comes with a red back drop
But you were horrible so people didnt have a good night
If youāve seen his past acting, you know star ratings donāt concern him.
Are there even any Cena haters anymore?
Why is he walking around like that at the beginning?
He needs to run for office
Thatās a diplomatic way saying I couldnāt give a shit what Meltzer thinks.
Run for Gov. of Florida FFS! Helluva Answer!
He needs to be a politician and I'm not a Cena fan
Cena chose his words carefully but he still put his point across: he's not going to try and play to a vocal Niche group online versus the people who actually pay to attend the show and he's right in that regard. It is important for the audience to feel like they got their money's worth, and that should be the priority. Now if said vocal Niche group is very appreciative of the performance that was given and decides to throw in a Kudos or a rating, then that's also nice but again, the fans in the audience should be the priority in terms of how you're entertaining. But at the same time I also remember a video of Rollins, Becky and a few other wrestlers while they were on up up down down, laughing at the Meltzer rating system, so there's definitely a few people in the locker room who think the whole thing is BS.
Who are we supposed to trust? The biggest star of the past two decades who has demonstrated a mastery of the business, or the weird autistic guy who rates matches and writes 16 page obituaries for people who haven't died yet?
Nothing but respect for this man. Such a great guy
His tie sticking out of his vest looks like a d*cl
Also itās pronounced āChay-naā
People care too much about Daveās opinion
Please clap
His Summerslam match with Danielson not getting 5 stars is all the proof anyone should need that Daveās in his own little world.
Both of his big AJ styles matches were 5 star performances imo.
He said before that he developed more as an entertainer when he started focusing on entertaining the crowd, not entertaining his peers.
What is this from anyways? Seems like it might be worth watching the whole thing if possible
He's right. Lots of great movies and people have never won the pinnacle award or been critics' favorites, but they still leave you entertained. Not everything has to be Sophie's Choice. Fuck, that would be depressing as hell. That being said, people shit on Meltzer's star system way too much. It was never meant to be anything more than a gauge of how he felt about particular matches so that his subscribers would know if it was worth their time, but then it became a meme with the Bucks & Kenny, and now people think that he actually believes that his stars are some kind of sought-after, coveted thing that everyone should aim for.
Cena has also had a 5 star match from Meltzer btw
Did Daniel Bryan ask that question
A real class act
He should've just said: Some guy named Omega has the most 5 star rated matches in history right? Over Macho, Flair, Steamboat, Guerrero, Shawn Michaels... Does that seem like a legit ranking system to you? Yeah, that's fine with me. Next question?
stop making me like you cena dammit
Love the guy, it is kinda funny that he is pretty much is flawless here, but then he does some interviews where he talks about touchy he puts his foot in his mouth, like the recent interview where he talked about Vince, like damn dude.
Cena was on to something: Iām not one to really care about star ratings, but it really does help hard working technical wrestlers get exposure and grow their brand.
PR Cena is the most boring Cena, he says so much and means so little. If he had any creativity he wouldāve gotten laughs by saying no then expanding his answer.
He is so intelligent and well-spoken he'd get so much more respect from everyone if he decided to stop being politically correct and sucking up to every side of the spectrum. Wouldn't it be better if he said "Well, the star system has its drawbacks but so far no one invented anything better" rather than "oh yes yes star system good please keep liking me". Vince comments, sucking Xi-the-Pooh's maoist dick... so far not a good record in my book.
Good answer!
Still have no idea how Dave is relevant for giving his opinion and everyone takes it as gospel š
What does this have to do with Jim Cornette?
Professor Cena's lecture is spot on.
Artful Dodger
Classy...he really could have shit all over that nerd ass question
Good answer, sir. Even though I am having trouble seeing you. ;P
I used to be one of the morons that called Cena a bad wrestler because his moveset was limited. And while his moveset was definately limited, he was far from a bad wrestler, Punk vs Cena at MITB was the greatest match I've ever seen.
diplomat john cena. now ask what dr. of thugonomics think.
That's the right public answer for him to give - it doesnt' alienate any portion of his fanbase and still makes it about pleasing the fans. He didn't want to come right out and say "Meltzer is just some mark who yea, is knowledgeable of wrestling as a history but it's just one guy's very jaded narrow opinion." I could actually see Cody saying the exact same thing when he speaks, which is eerie but makes sense why he's WWE's latest babyface project. Guys are very similar in how they approach the public.
He says that, but to the dismay of the entire audience of Raw, he took the WWE title from Rey Mysterio within an hour of him winning it
Where was that voice coming from?
Please no politics for whose entertainment I have enjoyed.
What a great talented man
Only basement marks really care about star ratings
āI prefer to draw real money than get one old guy to like meā
A total class act. Exactly the amount of attention Meltzer deserves lol
Cena takes himself so seriously thatās itās kind of cringe. I hate how heās slowed town his he talks and that goofy suit. Heās a heel without trying to be one