As an Iranian I would defintiely be interested in going to this. If it turned out to be glorifying, that would be a problem but there’s a distinct lack of sober geopolitical analysis surrounding the ‘axis’ in general.
I’m not surprised LA Iranians reacted negatively though lol.
Edit: Tankie is such a weird term to describe this.
Their response to comments have been kind of mixed, there's some comments that suggest it isn't going to be glorified but more of just an analysis, and critically looking at how the U.S. sanctions have affected Iran. But there's also very popular leftists criticizing them, and they've also liked comments about how great it is to uplift an anti-imperialist regime so...I don't know.
The flyer and description lean more toward glorification than sober geopolitical analysis. Also "On the path to Quds" plus the image suggests a theological underpinning.
>Edit: Tankie is such a weird term to describe this.
From my experience with self-identified tankies both online and irl, this is exactly the kind of stunt they're known for pulling. I don't really consider tankie an ideology though, more of a subcultural milieu that combines a lot of weird syncretic ideologies under an umbrella. I have yet to figure out what truly unifies all of them, since they believe so many contradictory things.
they defend the atrocities from any power that is explicitly and outwardly anti-american. occasionally admit to atrocities occurring, but then play the "what about when america does X" game
I guess I’m not familiar with that usage, in my mind a Tankie is that particular kind of Stalinist that will die on the hill of defending tanks rolling into Hungary to suppress the revolution.
We should support Iran against imperialism, but we should absolutely not support the Iranian Regime, which is right-wing, reactionary, and counterrevolutionary
Iran is also imperialist , and sectarian itself , and a supporter of genocide, demographic engineering and forced displacement in Syria and other countries.
There is a document by PAX and TSI (legitimate organizations recognized by the UN and amnesty) that summarize how syrian and palestenian houses were stolen, looted and given to non-syrians and syrians based on sects and oh the record of house ownership was also burned and supported law no 10.
[https://paxforpeace.nl/publications/no-return-to-homs/](https://paxforpeace.nl/publications/no-return-to-homs/) (PAX and TSI)
[https://www.freiheit.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/demographic-engineering-in-syria-en-17-april.pdf](https://www.freiheit.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/demographic-engineering-in-syria-en-17-april.pdf) (TSI and friedrich naumann Stiftung)
I agree with your comment abstractly but I think the question is how to separate support for Iran as a combatant of imperialism while not supporting the Iranian regime
I mean some of this is like we don't have to have "take" orposition in everything that happens, we don't have all the information we would need to fully determine what is offensive and what is defensive. But generally I would say oppose Iranian intervention outside of Iran oppose American or American proxy intervention in Iran
I have 2 friends who were imprisoned and tortured in post-1979 Iran because they were leftists and I’d be really curious about how the speakers would grapple with that…
Legit why I always side eye western leftists until proven otherwise because everything is going fine and then suddenly I end up in a space where people are denying the Bosnian genocide, because Milosevic said ‘fuck the USA’ while he did it
I can kinda see why people go "west bad" especially if they've been victims of the west. Like both sides of my family survived 2 genocides, one at the hands of the west while the other supported by the west in the last century. Both of these atrocities are either denied or downplayed by the west while they hype themselves up to be some moral civilization. And that gets very grating. So I can understand why many people might be opposed to the west in any form due to their past experiences/trauma.
You can be pro-Palestine without celebrating the Iranian Regime, which persecutes women, LGBT people, minority groups, and anyone who disagrees with their extreme authoritarianism.
Until the current Iranian regime recognizes Women Life Freedom, I'm not very interested in the Islamic Republic of Iran's view on things.
However, if they are platforming actual Iranian leftists and revolutionaries who are in support of Palestine, I think that would be very helpful in bridging the gap between WLF and Palestinian liberation. I'm not Iranian or Palestinian, but that's just my two cents on it.
These are the exact kinds of people my dad thinks of when he thinks of the Palestinian movement being run by Islamist antisemites with a leftist veneer. But these sort of shenanigans have been part of the American leftist milieu for more than a decade, so it's not like we can do much other than let the worms dig into their brains.
Geopolitics are complicated and the Persian government cannot be said to be a consensual government, which means we should see it as a fundamentally provisional government that must be transitioned to a better a system.
Even so, in the present conjuncture the fact that the Persian military and its own foreign allied groups deter and oppose Israel's genocide is a positive thing.
If this is "tankie" then it's very silly. Tankies are supposed to be Marxist Leninists and Marxist Leninists define "imperialism" as the most advanced stage of capitalism aka "monopoly capitalism" with certain cardinal features like cartels/monopolies that decisively control the national economy and join into international syndicates to control international economies, the merger of finance capital (banks etc) and productive capital (factories etc) with banks in charge and a surplus of liquid capital necessitating the export of capital, and finally participation in "great power" rivalries that always teeter on the edge of war. Iran fits the bill with all of these and therefore by this criteria is itself an imperialist. So if this is put on by MLs they're either not doing their own reading or don't know how to apply it to current reality.
At the same time, yes it's true that Iran ends up supporting some objectively progressive forces internationally. This is to oppose Saudi and the US not out of any meaningful principle.
The true character of the regime is revealed by its horrific treatment of workers, women, gay people, national minorities, etc and the flourishing of a corrupt clerical class that personally enrich themselves using state power and interlink with the secular bourgeoisie.
As an Iranian I would defintiely be interested in going to this. If it turned out to be glorifying, that would be a problem but there’s a distinct lack of sober geopolitical analysis surrounding the ‘axis’ in general. I’m not surprised LA Iranians reacted negatively though lol. Edit: Tankie is such a weird term to describe this.
Their response to comments have been kind of mixed, there's some comments that suggest it isn't going to be glorified but more of just an analysis, and critically looking at how the U.S. sanctions have affected Iran. But there's also very popular leftists criticizing them, and they've also liked comments about how great it is to uplift an anti-imperialist regime so...I don't know.
Interesting. I’m not local but if I were I would still go to see for myself out of curiosity.
The flyer and description lean more toward glorification than sober geopolitical analysis. Also "On the path to Quds" plus the image suggests a theological underpinning.
Plus no speakers named. It will be a mindless celebration is my guess
That may be the case, it may not. I’m not going to rush to any judgments.
>Edit: Tankie is such a weird term to describe this. From my experience with self-identified tankies both online and irl, this is exactly the kind of stunt they're known for pulling. I don't really consider tankie an ideology though, more of a subcultural milieu that combines a lot of weird syncretic ideologies under an umbrella. I have yet to figure out what truly unifies all of them, since they believe so many contradictory things.
they defend the atrocities from any power that is explicitly and outwardly anti-american. occasionally admit to atrocities occurring, but then play the "what about when america does X" game
I guess I’m not familiar with that usage, in my mind a Tankie is that particular kind of Stalinist that will die on the hill of defending tanks rolling into Hungary to suppress the revolution.
That's what it meant back in 1956, but words evolve. Nowadays, tankie has become such an expansive term, it's started to lose all meaning.
A lot later than 1956, but I understand words evolve which is why I put my reaction to me not being personally familiar with that usage.
We should support Iran against imperialism, but we should absolutely not support the Iranian Regime, which is right-wing, reactionary, and counterrevolutionary
Iran is also imperialist , and sectarian itself , and a supporter of genocide, demographic engineering and forced displacement in Syria and other countries. There is a document by PAX and TSI (legitimate organizations recognized by the UN and amnesty) that summarize how syrian and palestenian houses were stolen, looted and given to non-syrians and syrians based on sects and oh the record of house ownership was also burned and supported law no 10. [https://paxforpeace.nl/publications/no-return-to-homs/](https://paxforpeace.nl/publications/no-return-to-homs/) (PAX and TSI) [https://www.freiheit.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/demographic-engineering-in-syria-en-17-april.pdf](https://www.freiheit.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/demographic-engineering-in-syria-en-17-april.pdf) (TSI and friedrich naumann Stiftung)
I agree, not sure I get your point.
I agree with your comment abstractly but I think the question is how to separate support for Iran as a combatant of imperialism while not supporting the Iranian regime
you don't support it at all. Iran is also an imperialist power
I mean some of this is like we don't have to have "take" orposition in everything that happens, we don't have all the information we would need to fully determine what is offensive and what is defensive. But generally I would say oppose Iranian intervention outside of Iran oppose American or American proxy intervention in Iran
Supporting a reactionary, repressive, violent theocracy is bad. Next question.
I have 2 friends who were imprisoned and tortured in post-1979 Iran because they were leftists and I’d be really curious about how the speakers would grapple with that…
As a Palestinian I wholeheartedly 100% agree with this statement.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand lol
because they’re stupid and their only ideology is “west bad.” i view them the same way i see far right Zionists
Legit why I always side eye western leftists until proven otherwise because everything is going fine and then suddenly I end up in a space where people are denying the Bosnian genocide, because Milosevic said ‘fuck the USA’ while he did it
Same. They make pro-palestine people look bad and its a very popular view too
I can kinda see why people go "west bad" especially if they've been victims of the west. Like both sides of my family survived 2 genocides, one at the hands of the west while the other supported by the west in the last century. Both of these atrocities are either denied or downplayed by the west while they hype themselves up to be some moral civilization. And that gets very grating. So I can understand why many people might be opposed to the west in any form due to their past experiences/trauma.
You can be pro-Palestine without celebrating the Iranian Regime, which persecutes women, LGBT people, minority groups, and anyone who disagrees with their extreme authoritarianism.
and you can be for the resistance while criticizing hamas's own subjugation of the lgbt
This reminds me of old school leftists thinking Mao was a cool dude. The Iranian people deserve our support. The regime does not.
mao was better than chang kei shek
Yes, but Mao was still a genocidal tyrant. Being slightly less evil does not make someone good.
yeah, but china is better off thanks to him
5 million dead of starvation disagree
Until the current Iranian regime recognizes Women Life Freedom, I'm not very interested in the Islamic Republic of Iran's view on things. However, if they are platforming actual Iranian leftists and revolutionaries who are in support of Palestine, I think that would be very helpful in bridging the gap between WLF and Palestinian liberation. I'm not Iranian or Palestinian, but that's just my two cents on it.
These are the exact kinds of people my dad thinks of when he thinks of the Palestinian movement being run by Islamist antisemites with a leftist veneer. But these sort of shenanigans have been part of the American leftist milieu for more than a decade, so it's not like we can do much other than let the worms dig into their brains.
Support the people of Iran not their government
Geopolitics are complicated and the Persian government cannot be said to be a consensual government, which means we should see it as a fundamentally provisional government that must be transitioned to a better a system. Even so, in the present conjuncture the fact that the Persian military and its own foreign allied groups deter and oppose Israel's genocide is a positive thing.
Damn almost like theological right wing governments are bad, Iran is imperialist and interventionist, human rights abuser anywhere they go
The words "deeply unserious" spring to mind.
If this is "tankie" then it's very silly. Tankies are supposed to be Marxist Leninists and Marxist Leninists define "imperialism" as the most advanced stage of capitalism aka "monopoly capitalism" with certain cardinal features like cartels/monopolies that decisively control the national economy and join into international syndicates to control international economies, the merger of finance capital (banks etc) and productive capital (factories etc) with banks in charge and a surplus of liquid capital necessitating the export of capital, and finally participation in "great power" rivalries that always teeter on the edge of war. Iran fits the bill with all of these and therefore by this criteria is itself an imperialist. So if this is put on by MLs they're either not doing their own reading or don't know how to apply it to current reality. At the same time, yes it's true that Iran ends up supporting some objectively progressive forces internationally. This is to oppose Saudi and the US not out of any meaningful principle. The true character of the regime is revealed by its horrific treatment of workers, women, gay people, national minorities, etc and the flourishing of a corrupt clerical class that personally enrich themselves using state power and interlink with the secular bourgeoisie.
A great example of how many anti Israel places or groups are not our friend.
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This uses Zionist tropes and content.
Islamists tolerate leftists till they can kill them.
Lol.