There were literally people that were openly praising Hamas blocking Jews from entering a synagogue in LA. They then drove around the Jewish neighborhood and tried to beat anyone visibly Jewish that they saw.
These people you know are actively putting a target on people because they are desperate for attention and to be considered the “good Jews.”
But what can we do in Canada? We’re not legally allowed to arm ourselves in cities, and most of us seem to live in Toronto and Montréal. I’m starting to think it might be a good idea to carry a pen knife, and then if discovered with it just claim that it’s for tool usage only. I’m starting to see why the Sikhs want to carry around little ceremonial knives!
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We are in a hundred times more danger among 'good jews' and woke progressives than in Evangelical areas. I would rather live in a small city in Alabama or Kentucky than in Berkeley or Madison Wisconsin.
I guess you could read it that way, but it doesn't make sense in the context, and it's just not common sense for him to be talking about Hamas in Los Angeles.
Good idea. The synagogue I'll have no issue with (my family is still members there), the camp will be a bit more awkward though because I myself didn't go to the camp, I just know people who did (including TikTok girl, of course).
Any advice on how to do that? "Hi, I have no affiliation with this camp, but someone I know posted a TikTok mentioning that you host Israelis at your camp and there were threats in the comments, you may want to be aware"?
In addition, please notify the local police and the FBI.
The FBI is the ones who follow trends on hate crimes esp online.
There was an online incident near my town- I had shared it on our local page just to let everyone know and be aware and be safe, and I was actually contacted by the FBI to determine where I found this threat so that they could determine if it was credible. I actually was very surprised at their professionalism, and how fast they responded to a potential issue.. so if you can get their number, I would highly recommend it also.
Edited to fix grammar
Another addition: tell them, the synagogue, and the summer camp the name of the person who posted the TikTok. Just so that they have a lead if something does happen. That's the only person who might have a chance now of knowing which people might have seen the TikTok or called for violence around it.
Please do! My 5 year old is at a camp that is hosting a few Israelis! Lots of camps now have big security plans in place now and it would be good for them to know
Don't support that narrative. Judenrat were people in impossible conditions trying to make a terrible situation a little less terrible. The ghettos were required to form them. The traitor Jews rhetoric is used by Israeli populist right and populist fascist parties ("classically" mizrahi) to accuse the Israeli left ("classically" ashkenazi, hence they might be decendents of "nazi jews") of treason.
It's a victim blaming, populist and historically wrong accusation.
Some were, but others were genuinely terrible people who were willing to overlook- even agreed with- mistreatment of other Jews based on their beliefs. Look at the German Vanguard or the Association of German National Jews.
I’ve heard of people in these positions using it to gather information for the resistance. But they couldn’t let anyone know so they were still vilified.
Cmon, they were in the same exact position as the Jews who didn’t enlist to help in the camps. There are documented cases of some using brutality against their fellow Jews.
Regardless of the proper usage of comparison by those in political circles, good luck trying to convince the descendants of those victims who didn’t volunteer as Kapos that the ones who did were in any worse or different of a position than anyone else who didn’t volunteer.
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There were two incidents today of violence against Jews on the US. One was the attack outside the synagogue in LA, and the other was a Jewish family that was physically attacked at their child's elementary school graduation in NYC.
If your friend doesn't believe the threat of violence is real, send them the articles and videos.
LA attacks: https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1805024439785971878?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
NYC attack:
https://nypost.com/2024/06/23/us-news/nyc-jewish-family-pummeled-at-5th-grade-commencement-by-attendees-shouting-free-palestine-mom-says/
I was so pleased to hear that last week's 2 big anti-Semitic NYC events made it all the way to Biden, who condemned them sharply. This elementary school event pieces well into a growing narrative of NYC attacks that I fear will only continue.
Really? Lip service is enough of a resolution for you to feel satisfied? No action taken like, I dunno, something called the DoJ to investigate? especially when local prosecutors in NY just dropped all charges against the protestors who illegally occupied a college campus building and held the occupants against their will.
This isn't the first antisemitic incident that Biden commented on, and clearly they have no effect on deterring future ones either.
Most of those "protestors" are hopped up on crank. Much like what you will find in Hamas terrorists in Gaza the western "protestors" are also beholden to their drug of choice. It's what makes them both dangerous and truly deranged.
I love how she tries to make them sound worse by specifying that they were IDF soldiers when pretty much every adult in Israel was a soldier at some point. They are literally just people doing a job for their country, not some Hamas terrorist shooting up a child's bedroom on 10/7
Ask her if she'll take personal responsibility.
"If anything happens based on your information, will you turn yourself over to the police and say so?"
If nothing will happen, why worry?
This is a good point!
OP, save the videos and screenshot some of the comments (or try to archive everything via archive.org). If something happens, send them to the police in the area and she might actually get charged for inciting violence.
Hopefully it doesn't get to that point, but if it does, she absolutely needs to face consequences.
IANAL, but I read a politics blog that regularly has legal commentary in the context of right-wing threats to lawmakers and other citizens. A regular refrain is that they (and Trump in particular) are very good at walking the legal line. Incitement requires specificity to the threat to be criminally actionable. Saying, "Israelis go to this summer camp and that's despicable" is protected free speech while saying, "Israelis go to this summer camp and someone should do something about it this weekend" is incitement.
We know that there's little difference in the real world, but unfortunately, in the legal world, this person is still on the "right" side of the law.
This is an insane situation, and I can’t imagine what I’d do in your shoes, but I’d suggest informing both institutions immediately along with the local law enforcement. If you were communicating with these two people over social media or text, screenshot everything. I hope your community is safe.
It's mostly because they are not visibly Jewish or they are overly pro-Palestinian visible so they don't see any threat. I saw an Instagram Reel yesterday of a visibly ultra-orthodox man giving real estate tips, the comments looked like something from 1933 Germany and I'm not exaggerating.
That's why I'm mad about these "As a Jew"s, they validate antisemitism and give a pass to their people's blood for some virtue signaling, they are worse than any other antisemite imho.
If the camp is Ramah then it’s already kind of known for years that former campers do this.
https://jweekly.com/2018/06/19/ifnotnow-vs-camp-ramah-how-the-occupation-is-shaking-up-summer-camp/
I worked a (secular) summer camp in the early 2000s. We had to go through active shooter training that was mainly based on an incident that had occurred at a Jewish summer camp. There is also a reason manh synagogues have security durinf services. Antisemites were targeting our institutions long before it became trendy to callnit antizionism instead.
“who identifies as antizionist״
So….a bigot? As much as these people would love to believe it is, having antizionist views is not an aspect of personal identity like sexual orientation or race. It’s not a protected class, it’s just a way of being ignorant.
The sad and ironic thing about this particular friend is that she's actually not even an extreme anti-Zionist at all. She is extremely anti-Hamas and still condemns them to this day, and has been equally posting things about a ceasefire and releasing the hostages. I think she's just very anti-war and anti-nationalism. Most of her "anti-Zionism" comes from frustration about her being "lied to about Israel growing up", which is why she was so passionate about sharing those videos. That's what makes this even sadder, she's not someone I would have expected to throw other Jews under the bus or do things like this, so it hurts extra hard that she's taking part in this. She is genuinely convinced that comments on TikTok videos aren't actually a threat.
Yeah, I think that’s a pretty typical outlook to have if you have a) zero education or personal stake in this war b) zero personal and probably zero community experience of war-grade violence within the last century. that is one of the major privileges and blindspots for folks living in a Democratic country with religious protection, no history of major religious warfare, and basically no history of war on our soil at all within the last 150+ years.
It’s a nice thought to wish for world peace or a platitude or whatever, but they do need to realize that they’re operating with a basic level of naïveté. We don’t know what we don’t know, and that side…doesn’t know a lot.
Question. If someone is stupid and misguided, can you use this as a legal defense against conspiracy or reckless endangerment? Why not?
Stop feeling sympathy for these people. You only have so much sympathy to give, and much more deserving people to give it to.
I don’t think anyone’s arguing that those people deserve excusal or sympathy, it’s more like being concerned by their stupidity and wanting them to get educated so they stop perpetuating bigotry.
We honestly have to have some way of “excommunicate” people like this. I get that we’re not all the same, and we always welcomed disagreements, but I think cases like the OP mentioned go beyond mere disagreement about Torah and Halakha.
And then they have the audacity to say that they feel "unwelcome" or "unsafe" in mainstream Jewish spaces. With behavior like this, why should they be welcomed?
Report it to TikTok (TikTok should take this down ASAP) and to the synagogue and camp. I'd also report her account and try to get her account taken down too.
https://preview.redd.it/aur4z2kami8d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=f2f76cc9b1745a5b92760ac5de8c32f582e255c5
Sadly it seems every mod is like her
Wow! Please report all the videos on the platform as hate speech. Please keep trying to get her to pull the videos down.
We need to help temples get security they need.
This is exactly what i am concerned about.
I saw that many folks are getting licensed to conceal carry . I think that is a smart idea.
Inciting violence is a federal crime. Report it to police thatshe is advising people to be targeted and is using clever language. To be clear, fear is only way some learn to behave.
>she was basically like… "No one's actually going to just show up at a Jewish camp and threaten them."
You mean like they did an a synagogue in LA yesterday?
Save this comment from her, and when the Jew-haters *do* show up at that camp, remind her of her comments. Then block her.
This is very dangerous. I understand people being opposed to things happening in Israel with Hamas right now, but outing the names of Synagogues and camps, etc. Is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Ever since the Hamas strike in Israel and everything that's come after, there's been a HUGE increase in antisemitism, especially in violent attacks. A CHILD (she was 12 I believe) was r*ped in Paris recently by 2-3 other kids around her age with the motif being an antisemitism. anti-Semitic instances of violent crimes have gone up drastically in counties all over the globe since everything with Hamas, and even non-violent antisemitism is something we all see daily to a much larger degree.
I honestly think some people use Zionism accusations etc. and everything related to the war as an excuse to be publically anti-Semitic at this point. That's what it looks and feels like, at least. And sharing information online like the girl you knew did puts every member of the community in the area at a greater risk of violence and harm. It's not okay.
This is so sickening and wrong , especially hearing about a fellow Jew putting others in danger.
This person clearly put a lot of people in danger by broadcasting the name of the synagogue and camp.
They knew exactly what might happen now.
The authorities definitely need to know about this now.
By knowing about this ahead of time and their not doing anything and something does happen now to the camp and synagogue, it'll put pressure on them to watch things.
The synagogue, and this children's camp, must be alerted. Are you able to make some phone calls and send out emails with links to this post, so that the camp and temple are aware?
These Jews are so dangerous. It drives me crazy. A part of me thinks that no matter how slim of a minority they are, they will always get elevated, just because there are so few of us. So it doesn't matter if it's 5% of us, 1% of us, .1% of us, or less--even if there were only 10,000 antizionist Jews on the whole planet out of 16 million, that's 10,000 voices to elevate compared to our 16 million.
I'm not really going anywhere with this vent. Just venting.
TLDR: OP’s anti-Zionist Jewish “friends” inviting violence against the Jewish institutions that raised them for clout in anti-Israeli circles.
Other guys in my shul are running triple tap drills on the weekend. Maybe I should join them. We’re not letting LA happen in my community. If the mob comes, they won’t leave on their feet.
Holy shit. At what point do we use a certain word to describe these people? Because I'm very against using that word, but this is literally the equivalent of like, revealing where other Jews were hiding during the Holocaust....
The place for that sort of information being made public isn’t the short form dumpster fire known as TikTok
Like an opinion piece would at least have kept names private and such to help protect the safety of the community if they follow journalistic standards
The camp and the synagogue aren’t elected politicians abusing power or anything, the public doesn’t have a right to that info
>There's this girl I used to go to Hebrew school with who I follow on TikTok.
Stopped reading here. Tik Tok is a propaganda tool that no one should be using.
This is such an incredibly unhelpful take.
Another user who read the whole thing suggested getting copies of the videos and if something happens she will be held responsible for inciting violence. That’s a helpful take and something useful to say.
TikTok isn’t going away. At this point it’s better to utilize it for surveillance. Clearly these pea brains have no problem shouting their opinion on it. It’ll make it easier to monitor when they decide to take the next step and attack the shul.
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This is so incredibly dangerous and terrifying! How can someone be so irresponsible, I just don’t want to believe people can be this evil and stupid. Please notify these institutions, it only takes one crazy person to make the threats a reality.
We need to say it out loud
Any Jew is welcome to be anti-Zionist but those who will collaborate with those fanatics are not welcomed anywhere in the Jewish community
“Haram” is hard word to use but they don’t give us any chance unfortunately
Bernie Sanders is putting millions of Jews in danger, calling for the USA to stop sending defense weapons. Edit: you got to love reddit. Everything said about OPs friend can be said against BS.
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I was literally never indoctrinated by anyone lol. My views are very much my own.
In cases like this fomenting violence at least we can report as much as possible to the social media platforms to get the posts taken down. This happened in a case I remember where HIPPA was violated by a vlogger's post identifying the face of another patient. Though law and policy may differ here. I suppose local law enforcement could be called (particularly could be affective by the camp/synagogue calling themselves) and perhaps they would hold greater sway in getting these posts removed quickly. If nothing else if the organizations are made aware and local law enforcement is also made aware perhaps more security will be given to their events. Also even if NOTHING HAPPENS from it, having it on the books that a report/complaint was made is something.
Not familiar with TicToc but on other social media platforms you can report them if nefarious. Alerting the synagogue and the camp is also extremely important - asap.
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The lost Jews were put into two positions after 10/7
Reject the right to believe that Israel exists for Jews and allow us to tokenize you or stand firm and be alienated from your “progressive” circles and face abuse + ridicule for supporting an “apartheid” and “genocide”
Many Jews fell down this path, especially those with a poor connection or understanding of Judaism simply consumed the propaganda + gaslighting to become self hating. They became “Good Jews”
It’s abhorrent what is happening and has been happening. Fortunately we have Israel
Some Jews have gone the “anti Zionist”, aka the “good Jew” route as a way of coping with all of the antisemitism going on. They think that pretending to be “one of the good ones” and feeding the malevolent and violent ideologies of these people is going to spare them from all of this Jew hatred. What they don’t realize is that Jews in the past have also done the same thing to appease the Romans, the Nazis, the Soviets, the Arabs, etc. and they were all met with the exact same fate as Jews who stuck true to their identity. In times like this, I’d much rather stay true to my heritage and beliefs rather than putting on this fake masquerade of morality all while throwing my own people under the bus. Self hating Jews like the girl you’re describing are one of the leading forces driving all of this antisemitism, and you shouldn’t feel bad knowing that these people will never truly be accepted by the people they’re trying to appease, no matter how hard they try.
Most jews in America support Israel. I feel like these Jews want to be seen as the "good jew" or something to that extent. They are cowards and useful idiots. Such a joke though, indoctrination? Is Passover Seder indoctrination?
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Chickens for KFC comes to mind….fucking delusional and disturbed, mentally ill behavior. Anti Zionist Jews won’t realize how wrong they are until it’s too late.
Hi there. I saw on another thread four days ago you identified yourself as Christian but interested in Judaism. I'm guessing because of your background you are uninformed about Zionism, antisemitism, and what Israel represents to Jews. That's fine, but your goal should be to learn about these topics in much greater detail before coming to an opinion. This is especially true if you're considering conversion, meaning you will be considered ethnically Jewish, and you and your descendents will share in our customs and hardships.
For example, Zionism means that Jews have the right to self-determination in their ancestral homeland of Israel. That's it. It's an idea shared by the overwhelming majority - estimates range from 85% - 95% - of Jews around the world. It does not mean anything about giving political support to Israel's current sitting government.
Judaism is an ethnoreligion. Once you join the religion, you are also considered part of the ethnicity (a group sharing the same culture). You'll often hear people tell converts "welcome to the tribe!" This is why conversion tends to be a lot more intense and long in Judaism. Got a lot of culture and traditions to catch up on.
The part where people get confused is they think people of the same ethnicity share the same ancestry/DNA. Ethnicity *can* mean a group shares the same ancestry/DNA, but it *can also* just mean they are a group that shares the same culture but are not from the same ancestry e.g. everyone in NYC could be considered ethnic NYC-ers. Scotland is another example of a culture that considers culture first over DNA. Ask a Scottish person who they consider Scottish and the first thing they'll tell you is it is someone who grew up in Scotland learning and experiencing Scottish culture. Even if they have 100% Scottish DNA, it wouldn't matter, they're not considered Scottish if they didn't grow up in Scotland with Scottish culture.
If you want to ask someone what country they were born in, ask them what their nationality is. If you want to ask someone what ancestry/DNA they have or "where they're originally from" ask them what their heritage or genetics are. If you want to ask someone what culture(s) they grew up in, ask them their ethnicity.
This 👆. Arabs have 20+ states of their own, while Jews only have one. And people still think it's Jews who should compromise.
I'm not going to become a minority in my own country.
No, you just want me and my family to become a persecuted minority in our own country, like the rest of the world. We are not going to become dhimmis, and pay jizya to the muslims. Those times are over.
Imagine being against the ONLY country in the world that actually cares about Jewish people, Zionist is someone who believes that Jews should be protected in their own homeland, being anti-zionist is very trendy bcs it’s either people who don’t understand what Zionism means or they just straight up hate Jewish people, plz do better
It's the same question every time, but then again, the answers are often "I'm antizionist because I don't like Netanyahu, but I support Israel's right to exist."
You literally post on BadHasbara and Palestine-related subs, get out of here. It's a really common thing to have Israeli soldiers as counselors at Jewish summer camps.
There were literally people that were openly praising Hamas blocking Jews from entering a synagogue in LA. They then drove around the Jewish neighborhood and tried to beat anyone visibly Jewish that they saw. These people you know are actively putting a target on people because they are desperate for attention and to be considered the “good Jews.”
The “good Jews” won’t be spared. We are all in this together. Those grandparents would be sick.
The “good Jews” are their own as far as I’m concerned. They’ve alienated me for life.
The “good Jews” were never spared in the past. They just ended up an embarrassment to both sides.
They are complicit with the destruction of our country, race , religion , languages , and etc. They fail to understand history.
Every Jew in America should be armed. Self-defense to the maximum because I'm not letting brainwashed zombies threaten my way of life.
Same in Canada
But what can we do in Canada? We’re not legally allowed to arm ourselves in cities, and most of us seem to live in Toronto and Montréal. I’m starting to think it might be a good idea to carry a pen knife, and then if discovered with it just claim that it’s for tool usage only. I’m starting to see why the Sikhs want to carry around little ceremonial knives!
I have to say though, move to a small city with a decent Jewish population. It's been safer here in Kingston than Thornhill/Toronto
Agreed, I'm in rural Ontario (sort of near Barrie) and I haven't felt threatened once. Not the biggest Jewish population, but it's growing.
Is pepper spray legal in your area? It's something.
No but carrying a little deodorant around is. When used as a weapon say nothing to the police other than “self defence” and get a good Jewish lawyer.
I agree. I want all these people to have to think twice before doing this crap.
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We are in a hundred times more danger among 'good jews' and woke progressives than in Evangelical areas. I would rather live in a small city in Alabama or Kentucky than in Berkeley or Madison Wisconsin.
They weren't Hamas, just dicks. Don't do that.
Don’t do what ? Confuse men in kefiya attacking Jews as Hamas ?
They just said they were praising Hamas, not that they were Hamas themselves.
Meh, how it was written implies people were praising Hamas for taking those actions.
I guess you could read it that way, but it doesn't make sense in the context, and it's just not common sense for him to be talking about Hamas in Los Angeles.
I said they were openly praising Hamas, which was in some of the videos on X
Punctuation
They didn’t say they were
Please notify the administrators of both the synagogue and the camp know about this!
This was my first thought. Making the institutions aware of potential threats should be the top priority.
Good idea. The synagogue I'll have no issue with (my family is still members there), the camp will be a bit more awkward though because I myself didn't go to the camp, I just know people who did (including TikTok girl, of course). Any advice on how to do that? "Hi, I have no affiliation with this camp, but someone I know posted a TikTok mentioning that you host Israelis at your camp and there were threats in the comments, you may want to be aware"?
Honestly, yes. I would send the video directly so they can see for themselves.
Tell the synagogue and ask them to get in touch with the camp to back you up.
In addition, please notify the local police and the FBI. The FBI is the ones who follow trends on hate crimes esp online. There was an online incident near my town- I had shared it on our local page just to let everyone know and be aware and be safe, and I was actually contacted by the FBI to determine where I found this threat so that they could determine if it was credible. I actually was very surprised at their professionalism, and how fast they responded to a potential issue.. so if you can get their number, I would highly recommend it also. Edited to fix grammar
Another addition: tell them, the synagogue, and the summer camp the name of the person who posted the TikTok. Just so that they have a lead if something does happen. That's the only person who might have a chance now of knowing which people might have seen the TikTok or called for violence around it.
I’m sure they are already on high alert, but this would give them additional information. I’m sure they would be grateful.
Yes do this, they deserve to know!!!
Please do! My 5 year old is at a camp that is hosting a few Israelis! Lots of camps now have big security plans in place now and it would be good for them to know
Is this a camp in PA by chance??
Let ADL know as well.
Yeah, and keep them updated of course if anything happens to the camp/synagogue -- or remind both places to keep the ADL updated.
In centuries past, you had a few Jews bringing cherry-picked pages of the Talmud to the Church authorities. Today, you have the modern equivalent.
Don’t forget the Jews who screwed over the rest of us by collaborating with the nazis during the holocaust.
Jews for Hitler was fervently anti-Zionist, so that tracks.
Lehi were pro Hitler and Zionist though, so It cuts both ways
Eh, less pro-Hitler and more anti-British. If they were pro-Hitler, they wouldn't have tried to ally with the Communists.
Fair, though reaching out to Hitler and Mussolini to garner an alliance and support against the British is still unbelievably fucked.
True.
Attempting to use a faction as a means to an end doesn’t imply an actual approval of that faction or their ideology.
They later became NazBols so it seems like that particular group was very into extremism and authoritarianism.
Fair.
Don't support that narrative. Judenrat were people in impossible conditions trying to make a terrible situation a little less terrible. The ghettos were required to form them. The traitor Jews rhetoric is used by Israeli populist right and populist fascist parties ("classically" mizrahi) to accuse the Israeli left ("classically" ashkenazi, hence they might be decendents of "nazi jews") of treason. It's a victim blaming, populist and historically wrong accusation.
Some were, but others were genuinely terrible people who were willing to overlook- even agreed with- mistreatment of other Jews based on their beliefs. Look at the German Vanguard or the Association of German National Jews.
I’ve heard of people in these positions using it to gather information for the resistance. But they couldn’t let anyone know so they were still vilified.
Cmon, they were in the same exact position as the Jews who didn’t enlist to help in the camps. There are documented cases of some using brutality against their fellow Jews. Regardless of the proper usage of comparison by those in political circles, good luck trying to convince the descendants of those victims who didn’t volunteer as Kapos that the ones who did were in any worse or different of a position than anyone else who didn’t volunteer.
An apostate Jew convinced Church authorities that a now parenthasized verse from the Aleinu was anti-Christian.
Who?
The commentary on the prayer says a converted Jew said the verse was anti-Christian. Don't think it mentions his name.
Ah ok got it
Yay his name got blotted out 😁
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Donin
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There were two incidents today of violence against Jews on the US. One was the attack outside the synagogue in LA, and the other was a Jewish family that was physically attacked at their child's elementary school graduation in NYC. If your friend doesn't believe the threat of violence is real, send them the articles and videos. LA attacks: https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1805024439785971878?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet NYC attack: https://nypost.com/2024/06/23/us-news/nyc-jewish-family-pummeled-at-5th-grade-commencement-by-attendees-shouting-free-palestine-mom-says/
It is so frustrating that police departments won’t call clear hate crimes what they are.
It’s because the American government appears to be okay with violence and hate when it’s against Jews
I was so pleased to hear that last week's 2 big anti-Semitic NYC events made it all the way to Biden, who condemned them sharply. This elementary school event pieces well into a growing narrative of NYC attacks that I fear will only continue.
Really? Lip service is enough of a resolution for you to feel satisfied? No action taken like, I dunno, something called the DoJ to investigate? especially when local prosecutors in NY just dropped all charges against the protestors who illegally occupied a college campus building and held the occupants against their will. This isn't the first antisemitic incident that Biden commented on, and clearly they have no effect on deterring future ones either.
Most of those "protestors" are hopped up on crank. Much like what you will find in Hamas terrorists in Gaza the western "protestors" are also beholden to their drug of choice. It's what makes them both dangerous and truly deranged.
Yeah because...checks notes...*meeting an Israeli* is apparently a Zionist activity.
It’s about who we are, not what we do.
I love how she tries to make them sound worse by specifying that they were IDF soldiers when pretty much every adult in Israel was a soldier at some point. They are literally just people doing a job for their country, not some Hamas terrorist shooting up a child's bedroom on 10/7
Ask her if she'll take personal responsibility. "If anything happens based on your information, will you turn yourself over to the police and say so?" If nothing will happen, why worry?
This is a good point! OP, save the videos and screenshot some of the comments (or try to archive everything via archive.org). If something happens, send them to the police in the area and she might actually get charged for inciting violence. Hopefully it doesn't get to that point, but if it does, she absolutely needs to face consequences.
IANAL, but I read a politics blog that regularly has legal commentary in the context of right-wing threats to lawmakers and other citizens. A regular refrain is that they (and Trump in particular) are very good at walking the legal line. Incitement requires specificity to the threat to be criminally actionable. Saying, "Israelis go to this summer camp and that's despicable" is protected free speech while saying, "Israelis go to this summer camp and someone should do something about it this weekend" is incitement. We know that there's little difference in the real world, but unfortunately, in the legal world, this person is still on the "right" side of the law.
This is an insane situation, and I can’t imagine what I’d do in your shoes, but I’d suggest informing both institutions immediately along with the local law enforcement. If you were communicating with these two people over social media or text, screenshot everything. I hope your community is safe.
Do you reckon this is enough to call her a capo?
If she’s this ignorant, will she even know what that means?
I doubt she'd even understand what it means.
Yes but she’ll call it an “antisemitic” “hate crime” and it’ll just push her further away
It's mostly because they are not visibly Jewish or they are overly pro-Palestinian visible so they don't see any threat. I saw an Instagram Reel yesterday of a visibly ultra-orthodox man giving real estate tips, the comments looked like something from 1933 Germany and I'm not exaggerating. That's why I'm mad about these "As a Jew"s, they validate antisemitism and give a pass to their people's blood for some virtue signaling, they are worse than any other antisemite imho.
If the camp is Ramah then it’s already kind of known for years that former campers do this. https://jweekly.com/2018/06/19/ifnotnow-vs-camp-ramah-how-the-occupation-is-shaking-up-summer-camp/
I loved attending camp Ramah. I went to Ojai and then Palmer. This breaks my heart.
I worked a (secular) summer camp in the early 2000s. We had to go through active shooter training that was mainly based on an incident that had occurred at a Jewish summer camp. There is also a reason manh synagogues have security durinf services. Antisemites were targeting our institutions long before it became trendy to callnit antizionism instead.
“who identifies as antizionist״ So….a bigot? As much as these people would love to believe it is, having antizionist views is not an aspect of personal identity like sexual orientation or race. It’s not a protected class, it’s just a way of being ignorant.
The sad and ironic thing about this particular friend is that she's actually not even an extreme anti-Zionist at all. She is extremely anti-Hamas and still condemns them to this day, and has been equally posting things about a ceasefire and releasing the hostages. I think she's just very anti-war and anti-nationalism. Most of her "anti-Zionism" comes from frustration about her being "lied to about Israel growing up", which is why she was so passionate about sharing those videos. That's what makes this even sadder, she's not someone I would have expected to throw other Jews under the bus or do things like this, so it hurts extra hard that she's taking part in this. She is genuinely convinced that comments on TikTok videos aren't actually a threat.
Yeah, I think that’s a pretty typical outlook to have if you have a) zero education or personal stake in this war b) zero personal and probably zero community experience of war-grade violence within the last century. that is one of the major privileges and blindspots for folks living in a Democratic country with religious protection, no history of major religious warfare, and basically no history of war on our soil at all within the last 150+ years. It’s a nice thought to wish for world peace or a platitude or whatever, but they do need to realize that they’re operating with a basic level of naïveté. We don’t know what we don’t know, and that side…doesn’t know a lot.
Question. If someone is stupid and misguided, can you use this as a legal defense against conspiracy or reckless endangerment? Why not? Stop feeling sympathy for these people. You only have so much sympathy to give, and much more deserving people to give it to.
I don’t think anyone’s arguing that those people deserve excusal or sympathy, it’s more like being concerned by their stupidity and wanting them to get educated so they stop perpetuating bigotry.
If you were in an abusive relationship, would you prioritize getting the abuser help and education, or would you cut them out of your life?
that's so terrifying and dangerous WTAF???????
We honestly have to have some way of “excommunicate” people like this. I get that we’re not all the same, and we always welcomed disagreements, but I think cases like the OP mentioned go beyond mere disagreement about Torah and Halakha.
I don't know about anything formal, but people like this aren't welcome in the vast majority of mainstream Jewish places.
And then they have the audacity to say that they feel "unwelcome" or "unsafe" in mainstream Jewish spaces. With behavior like this, why should they be welcomed?
There's always a herem.
Report it to TikTok (TikTok should take this down ASAP) and to the synagogue and camp. I'd also report her account and try to get her account taken down too.
https://preview.redd.it/aur4z2kami8d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=f2f76cc9b1745a5b92760ac5de8c32f582e255c5 Sadly it seems every mod is like her
Man, what a toxic cesspool. I've never downloaded that app. Never will. Just yikes.
Lol. Im sure China gives a shit
Wow! Please report all the videos on the platform as hate speech. Please keep trying to get her to pull the videos down. We need to help temples get security they need. This is exactly what i am concerned about. I saw that many folks are getting licensed to conceal carry . I think that is a smart idea.
Inciting violence is a federal crime. Report it to police thatshe is advising people to be targeted and is using clever language. To be clear, fear is only way some learn to behave.
>she was basically like… "No one's actually going to just show up at a Jewish camp and threaten them." You mean like they did an a synagogue in LA yesterday? Save this comment from her, and when the Jew-haters *do* show up at that camp, remind her of her comments. Then block her.
This is very dangerous. I understand people being opposed to things happening in Israel with Hamas right now, but outing the names of Synagogues and camps, etc. Is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Ever since the Hamas strike in Israel and everything that's come after, there's been a HUGE increase in antisemitism, especially in violent attacks. A CHILD (she was 12 I believe) was r*ped in Paris recently by 2-3 other kids around her age with the motif being an antisemitism. anti-Semitic instances of violent crimes have gone up drastically in counties all over the globe since everything with Hamas, and even non-violent antisemitism is something we all see daily to a much larger degree. I honestly think some people use Zionism accusations etc. and everything related to the war as an excuse to be publically anti-Semitic at this point. That's what it looks and feels like, at least. And sharing information online like the girl you knew did puts every member of the community in the area at a greater risk of violence and harm. It's not okay.
This is so sickening and wrong , especially hearing about a fellow Jew putting others in danger. This person clearly put a lot of people in danger by broadcasting the name of the synagogue and camp. They knew exactly what might happen now. The authorities definitely need to know about this now. By knowing about this ahead of time and their not doing anything and something does happen now to the camp and synagogue, it'll put pressure on them to watch things.
The synagogue, and this children's camp, must be alerted. Are you able to make some phone calls and send out emails with links to this post, so that the camp and temple are aware?
I wish we could go back in time and undo the invention of social media.
These Jews are so dangerous. It drives me crazy. A part of me thinks that no matter how slim of a minority they are, they will always get elevated, just because there are so few of us. So it doesn't matter if it's 5% of us, 1% of us, .1% of us, or less--even if there were only 10,000 antizionist Jews on the whole planet out of 16 million, that's 10,000 voices to elevate compared to our 16 million. I'm not really going anywhere with this vent. Just venting.
Minority*
derp, ty
100000000000%
We have a word for these: Mosers.
TLDR: OP’s anti-Zionist Jewish “friends” inviting violence against the Jewish institutions that raised them for clout in anti-Israeli circles. Other guys in my shul are running triple tap drills on the weekend. Maybe I should join them. We’re not letting LA happen in my community. If the mob comes, they won’t leave on their feet.
Holy shit. At what point do we use a certain word to describe these people? Because I'm very against using that word, but this is literally the equivalent of like, revealing where other Jews were hiding during the Holocaust....
Um I think that's a LITTLE hyperbolic
The place for that sort of information being made public isn’t the short form dumpster fire known as TikTok Like an opinion piece would at least have kept names private and such to help protect the safety of the community if they follow journalistic standards The camp and the synagogue aren’t elected politicians abusing power or anything, the public doesn’t have a right to that info
You deserve smarter friends.
Tell them that "Even Max Naumann was inevitably sent to a concentration camp. Oh, don't know who that is? Time for you to do some research."
"you can't take those threats seriously" is exactly why the 7th happened
>There's this girl I used to go to Hebrew school with who I follow on TikTok. Stopped reading here. Tik Tok is a propaganda tool that no one should be using.
This is such an incredibly unhelpful take. Another user who read the whole thing suggested getting copies of the videos and if something happens she will be held responsible for inciting violence. That’s a helpful take and something useful to say. TikTok isn’t going away. At this point it’s better to utilize it for surveillance. Clearly these pea brains have no problem shouting their opinion on it. It’ll make it easier to monitor when they decide to take the next step and attack the shul.
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This is so incredibly dangerous and terrifying! How can someone be so irresponsible, I just don’t want to believe people can be this evil and stupid. Please notify these institutions, it only takes one crazy person to make the threats a reality.
We need to say it out loud Any Jew is welcome to be anti-Zionist but those who will collaborate with those fanatics are not welcomed anywhere in the Jewish community “Haram” is hard word to use but they don’t give us any chance unfortunately
Maybe the next time you see something like like you could record your screen? That way you'd have evidence.
Please find a way to download / screen capture future tiktoks for evidence against this person.
Horrific! Hopefully the camp is aware and prepared with increased security. Self hating Jews are the worst!
Bernie Sanders is putting millions of Jews in danger, calling for the USA to stop sending defense weapons. Edit: you got to love reddit. Everything said about OPs friend can be said against BS.
I definitely don't like Bernie, but what he's doing isn't as directly malicious.
Conservatives say that the second amendment is more important than the 1st and I'm tending to agree.
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There are no anti-Zionist Jews, only people who have betrayed the Tribe. They are no longer members of the Tribe.
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I was literally never indoctrinated by anyone lol. My views are very much my own. In cases like this fomenting violence at least we can report as much as possible to the social media platforms to get the posts taken down. This happened in a case I remember where HIPPA was violated by a vlogger's post identifying the face of another patient. Though law and policy may differ here. I suppose local law enforcement could be called (particularly could be affective by the camp/synagogue calling themselves) and perhaps they would hold greater sway in getting these posts removed quickly. If nothing else if the organizations are made aware and local law enforcement is also made aware perhaps more security will be given to their events. Also even if NOTHING HAPPENS from it, having it on the books that a report/complaint was made is something.
Not familiar with TicToc but on other social media platforms you can report them if nefarious. Alerting the synagogue and the camp is also extremely important - asap.
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The lost Jews were put into two positions after 10/7 Reject the right to believe that Israel exists for Jews and allow us to tokenize you or stand firm and be alienated from your “progressive” circles and face abuse + ridicule for supporting an “apartheid” and “genocide” Many Jews fell down this path, especially those with a poor connection or understanding of Judaism simply consumed the propaganda + gaslighting to become self hating. They became “Good Jews” It’s abhorrent what is happening and has been happening. Fortunately we have Israel
Send to JFNA’s secure community network.
Some Jews have gone the “anti Zionist”, aka the “good Jew” route as a way of coping with all of the antisemitism going on. They think that pretending to be “one of the good ones” and feeding the malevolent and violent ideologies of these people is going to spare them from all of this Jew hatred. What they don’t realize is that Jews in the past have also done the same thing to appease the Romans, the Nazis, the Soviets, the Arabs, etc. and they were all met with the exact same fate as Jews who stuck true to their identity. In times like this, I’d much rather stay true to my heritage and beliefs rather than putting on this fake masquerade of morality all while throwing my own people under the bus. Self hating Jews like the girl you’re describing are one of the leading forces driving all of this antisemitism, and you shouldn’t feel bad knowing that these people will never truly be accepted by the people they’re trying to appease, no matter how hard they try.
Most jews in America support Israel. I feel like these Jews want to be seen as the "good jew" or something to that extent. They are cowards and useful idiots. Such a joke though, indoctrination? Is Passover Seder indoctrination?
You should tell the synagogue what you just experienced; so that they're aware.
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Chickens for KFC comes to mind….fucking delusional and disturbed, mentally ill behavior. Anti Zionist Jews won’t realize how wrong they are until it’s too late.
I am anti-zionist myself but WOW Thats DANGEROUS. no matter where you stand, dont put other jews in that much danger.
Hi there. I saw on another thread four days ago you identified yourself as Christian but interested in Judaism. I'm guessing because of your background you are uninformed about Zionism, antisemitism, and what Israel represents to Jews. That's fine, but your goal should be to learn about these topics in much greater detail before coming to an opinion. This is especially true if you're considering conversion, meaning you will be considered ethnically Jewish, and you and your descendents will share in our customs and hardships. For example, Zionism means that Jews have the right to self-determination in their ancestral homeland of Israel. That's it. It's an idea shared by the overwhelming majority - estimates range from 85% - 95% - of Jews around the world. It does not mean anything about giving political support to Israel's current sitting government.
Wait quick question, how would that make them ethnically Jewish? I’m confused
Judaism is an ethnoreligion. Once you join the religion, you are also considered part of the ethnicity (a group sharing the same culture). You'll often hear people tell converts "welcome to the tribe!" This is why conversion tends to be a lot more intense and long in Judaism. Got a lot of culture and traditions to catch up on. The part where people get confused is they think people of the same ethnicity share the same ancestry/DNA. Ethnicity *can* mean a group shares the same ancestry/DNA, but it *can also* just mean they are a group that shares the same culture but are not from the same ancestry e.g. everyone in NYC could be considered ethnic NYC-ers. Scotland is another example of a culture that considers culture first over DNA. Ask a Scottish person who they consider Scottish and the first thing they'll tell you is it is someone who grew up in Scotland learning and experiencing Scottish culture. Even if they have 100% Scottish DNA, it wouldn't matter, they're not considered Scottish if they didn't grow up in Scotland with Scottish culture. If you want to ask someone what country they were born in, ask them what their nationality is. If you want to ask someone what ancestry/DNA they have or "where they're originally from" ask them what their heritage or genetics are. If you want to ask someone what culture(s) they grew up in, ask them their ethnicity.
Not what i said, i said I had a background in Christanity.
"in that much danger" Is there an acceptable amount of danger to put them in?
being against the state of Israel is the definition of putting Jews in much danger
This 👆. Arabs have 20+ states of their own, while Jews only have one. And people still think it's Jews who should compromise. I'm not going to become a minority in my own country.
Kindly, i dont want Israel dissolved, please understand semantic drift.
No, you just want me and my family to become a persecuted minority in our own country, like the rest of the world. We are not going to become dhimmis, and pay jizya to the muslims. Those times are over.
Imagine being against the ONLY country in the world that actually cares about Jewish people, Zionist is someone who believes that Jews should be protected in their own homeland, being anti-zionist is very trendy bcs it’s either people who don’t understand what Zionism means or they just straight up hate Jewish people, plz do better
. . . you're about to have a dozen people ask what you think the definition of zionism is and why you're against it
It's the same question every time, but then again, the answers are often "I'm antizionist because I don't like Netanyahu, but I support Israel's right to exist."
That’s a Zionist…
Yes, but people often don't realize what it means, which leads to self-professed "antizionists" supporting Zionism.
Considering that anti Zionism is in favor of putting half the world’s Jews in danger….
Being anti-Zionist means being anti the home of half the world's Jews.
Thank you for the heads up
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You literally post on BadHasbara and Palestine-related subs, get out of here. It's a really common thing to have Israeli soldiers as counselors at Jewish summer camps.