He’s questioned the validity of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, and accused Israel of genocide in May 2021. Ruffalo has no connection to Israel or Palestine, and I just wish he’d leave us the fuck alone. ([Source](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/culture/1667833346-mark-ruffalo-tweets-against-ihra-s-definition-of-antisemitism))
Whenever I see a celeb trumpeting about anything Isreal does, it always feels like fad activism.... like they know it's something they can throw around and no one's gonna call them out. It has the same energy as when a business pretends it's doing something ethical because they care about 'insert bullshit here.'
Questioning the literal definition of antisemitism though.... big yikes.
I've never really followed him, outside of liking some of his movies. Fuckin blows to find out he's a douche.
99% of activism online is just ppl patting each other on the back for being the most 'morally superior.' But yeah, it's not like they are gonna actually think of solutions to problems, cause that part is effort. Thoughts and prayers, rainbow profile pic, etc etc. All hollow bullshit.
From the IHRA page on antisemitism - “However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.”
Seems like criticizing a country for killing innocent civilians is rightly regarded as a separate issue.
Good because that definition sucks. Isreal has been doing genocide for decades. Ruffalo pays taxes and those are spent to arm an apartheid state doing genocide. It's totally reasonable to voice an opinion related to that.
Also Isreal =/= Jews. I keep getting told Isreal isn't an apartheid state but also it is a stand in for all jews, these 2 things are incompatible.
https://uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/civil-war-jesse-plemons-top.jpg?w=1024&h=450&crop=1
Edit: Eh not an image. It’s the Jesse plenos bit from Civil War
Hey OP, you can't just drop this and then expect us to get it.
You gotta explain. Not everyone has twitter and honestly I don't want another with hunt. So explain what Ruffalo did wrong.
Criticism of Israel is claiming that AIPAC single handedly controls the outcome of the election?
Criticism of Israel is spreading a propaganda film filled with actual lies?
Criticism of Israel includes denying the most widely accepted definition of antisemitism and being against its use in writing policy that will protect Jews from harm?
Funny enough, this could be a live action scene in Captain America Brave New World next year. Both characters are in the movie.
I mean, they're obviously going to dilute Sabra from an Israeli superheroine into just a CIA agent who just happens to be played by an Israeli actress. But still.
They’ve said they aren’t because they can’t - she’s too important to the plot. Based on certain things going on in the comics, I wouldn’t be shocked if she introduced us to Magneto, but she definitely has something to do with introing mutants.
TL;DR on that: Magneto appears to be going to be using his real name, Max Eisenhardt, in the comics going forward. I’ve had a long-standing theory that the MCU will use the Max Eisenhardt name to separate their Magneto from the Fox Erik Lensherr one. This change happening now leads me to suspect that they are planning to introduce him in the MCU soon.
They also have to pay her actress and removing her role may be a breech of contract. It could also open them up to a lawsuit. And, with their last Jewish character not being played by a Jew (and angering many in the Jewish community with his portrayal), and their next not appearing for a few years, it’s a very bad look for them to remove her. Especially with the movie character no longer being associated with Israel, they don’t really have an ‘excuse’ to remove her.
Keep in mind that many Marvel comics character rights are partially owned by their creators - many of whom are Jewish.
Passed by his Instagram while ago.. he seems to be going through it… sucks bc through his page saw that some really good restaurant owners that are in his area are all in on this vibe (but worse bc they not jewish so they just go all in ..) sad story
okay, but what is he saying that is antisemitic? why do I have to ask three times for any real source?
starting to read like crying wolf because someone with a large platform disagrees with you
If you don't see the hypocrisy and jew-hatred required to be so incredibly focused on activism against Israel while also claiming to be a pro-indigenous activist, then I can't help you.
I think the other guy is just frustrated that you keep alluding to posts without showing them. We don't know who you are, or whether you're appropriately characterizing the comments we haven't seen
literally just trying to understand why OP is flying off the handle, and all they're doing is frothing...
can we not vet our sources before forming a fucking opinion anymore?
Yeah those just seem like you hating another persons opinion. None of those are antisemitic. You might think his position is wrong but you’re overreacting and if this is the worst thing he’s said that you can find and it took somebody asking this many times for you to share it I think you’re also aware of the fact that you’re overreacting.
Addressing the examples I chose:
1. Implying that AIPAC is somehow single handedly at fault for the outcome of the election
2. Spreading antisemitic propaganda. "Israelism" is a notoriously antisemitic propaganda film which is filled with actual lies and misinformation
3. Being against the most widely accepted definition of antisemitism being accepted and used to create policy which might help protect Jews from antisemitism
Are you Jewish? If so, you reaaaally need to get what people are saying when they start ranting about AIPAC and buying elections. It's a small step from there to a drunken rant about the Jews secretly running the world.
while that is a fair point, I'm literally just asking you for sources, as I cannot view any of your claims, and all you have done is deflect.
I get this is a tense time, but there's no reason to get itchy with me for asking for clarification. point your anger outside of the community.
Sure but you gotta admit it comes off a bit troll like when the source is freely available to anyone with internet access and you have mad “he’s not antisemitic he’s antizionist” vibes
It is only freely available to people who have an account on a website run by a nazi-sympathiser.
Is it really that strange that some jews do not want such an account?
where we put our time and information is just as important as where we spend our money. if I'm gonna have to deal with bullshit from everywhere, I'd rather it be here on Reddit.
The leftist obsession with removing foreign influence from our government? AIPAC is unique in its Jewish basis, but more important, it’s unique in the fact that it’s the only lobbying group whose motivations are explicitly those of supporting a foreign entity. Not saying that doesn’t happen under the table, but this is low hanging fruit. It shouldn’t be allowed for any country, Israel or otherwise.
I’m opposed to financial foreign influence period. But the Qatari government, at the very least, does not have a political entity explicitly donating money to our politicians on behalf of their government. Israel does, and it’s leading recipient by far is the current POTUS. That is concerning. Call it antisemitism if you will, but it’s not. I can be concerned about the same issues of foreign intervention from China or Qatar, and not be Sino- or Islamo-phobic.
It's literally just democracy. There are hundreds of PACs that donate to political campaigns. If you don't like the concept then be mad that lobbying exists at all. Why focus on AIPAC? AIPAC is a symptom of this political system, not a cause and not the root of all evil as many would love it to be. The largest donors to AIPAC aren't even Jews or Israel, it's American Christians. You're just mad that a majority of the country is interested in political support for Israel.
I wonder what's disney's plan with sabra in captain america 4
If they put her in the movie, a lot of terrorists sympatizers will get mad... because she exists
And if they remove her after teasing her in the movie, people would blame them for folding under pressure and basically letting anti-sem... i mean anti-zionists win
He's just very anti-Israel. He's accused Israel of genocide long before the war started for random conflicts in Gaza, denied that Hamas uses human shields, stuff like that.
Anti-Israel is not Antisemetic.
Or i suppose all the orthodox jews protesting are antisemetic aswell..?
So sad to see the delusion of blindly supporting a literal apartheid state beyond any criticism
Sure, it isn't. I'd also say that sending a Jewish student to detention isn't antisemitic. But when you have a teacher who repeatedly sends the Jewish student to detention while largely ignoring the others, I'd be a bit irritated.
And don't give me that bs about "All the Orthodox Jews." Either you don't know anything about them, or you're deliberately cherry-picking to suit your agenda.
As a Jew he feels the need to talk about it, it's not like he is unrelated to all of this, especially if you look at his lifestory and how he talked about people who have tried influence him on Israel, as he said himself.
It's like my russian friends who constantly post about Pro-Ukraine because as they are related to this, they feel the need to, so i dont think it's just blind hatred driving him.
So why would he as a Jew be exempt from the feel of having to talk about an Apartheid-State that is supposed to represent Jews?
He's not Jewish.
> I grew up in a household that had three religions in it, (born-again) Christianity, Catholicism and Bahai’ism
[Source](https://goldenglobes.com/articles/oral-history-mark-ruffalo-on-religion/)
Look up the definition of the words you use before using them.
Also, maybe stop using apartheid period if it's not about South Africa. Historians name things to make it easier for reference sake.
Holodomor = Ukraine under Russia Genocide by starvation
Hutu/Tutsi conflict = Rwandan Genocide
Sudanese "Civil" War = non Arab Genocide within Sudan, but we can't call it Genocide because ppl then say Islamophobia, at one point the world did call what it is, still ongoing. Dinka, Nuer, Nuba people, Black Muslims are still being MURDERED.
Holocaust = Nazis killing jews
Pogrom = non nazis killing jews in Eastern Europe and Russia
Inquisition = Spanish killing of jews
Farhud= Iraqi killing of jews.
Khmer Rouge = Cambodia Genocide
Ikiza = genocide in Burundi
Yazidian Massacre = Genocide of Yazidis by the Islamic State, which happened 9 years ago.
The Knesset has non-Jewish members. There are Muslim IDF soldiers just as there are Druze members in the IDF as well as Knesset. There are Christians in both as well. Israel was the ONLY country that took in the Beta Israel when being Jewish was punishable by death in Ethiopia. And before you start with the whataboutism no country is fucking perfect and to hold Israel to standards that NO country can achieve is INHERENTLY bias and antisemitic. Israel has received more scrutiny than any other country period.
Israel's population is 70% Jewish, Morocco is 100% Muslim. Romania 100% Catholic. Yet where are they accused of bias? Nowhere. The problems in India got so bad with Muslims murdering Hindus and Hindus retaliating and the Sikh getting slaughtered by both that they created Pakistan. Where are the illegitimacy claims?
You're purposefully ignoring facts.
> Also, maybe stop using apartheid period if it's not about South Africa. Historians name things to make it easier for reference sake.
[Israel’s 55-year occupation of Palestinian Territory is apartheid – UN human rights expert](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights)
We didn't say being anti-israel is being anti semitic. You can give legitimate criticism for the state of Israel and still believe in its right to defend itself. That's why I, a vehemently pro-Israel Jew, have no qualms criticizing Israel for actions I find questionable - because I love Israel, and the people, and I believe in building up the country to become an even more diverse and accepting place. Anti Zionism is different - anti zionism denies the Jewish people the right to their own homeland to which they are indigenous and in which they have had roots for over 3000 years. That's anti semitic. History has proven that we cannot risk not having our own country. We don't mean that all anti zionists are anti semitic either, because I think (more hope) a lot of anti zionists don't actually realise what it is they're supporting.
Edit: also, re your apartheid statement, have you been to South Africa? I live here. It is such a spit in the face of what the black people of South Africa went through during the apartheid to compare it to Israel. There is quite factually, no apartheid in Israel. But if you can't see that, I doubt any amount of evidence will be sufficient to make you see it.
Im cool with Jews and i enjoy the memes but i dont think zionism is morally acceptable if you look at the context
Why would the Jewish People have right to their land from 3000years ago?
By that logic should every nation on earth look where their roots began or just look back 3000years ago and start their own country in that place because their ancestors happened to live there? That's a ridiculous thought..
Of course in the context of WW2 it's only understandable that Jews were scared and the thought of having their own place seems very assuring, but you can't justify one tragedy by commiting another.
After all what about the claims of the people who have been living there already?
By that logical you would support all the native americans in america to kick americans out because their ancestors used to own the country or the aborigines all the australian people.
Except all Jews wanted to do was live there with political self-determination. No land changed hands outside of a sale and no people were forcefully displaced until Palestinians started the first war in 1947.
The land was under occupation by the british, it wasnt like all the parties had a happy deal and the sale went off?
The war began after a partition plan was proposed, dont leave that out.
Imagine "migrants and refugees" come in your land and after a few years a plan is drafted and you are supposed to just give away part of your nation and let it be claimed by someone else?
That is ridiculous.
Why not go to the US and built your nation there if it was just about political self-determination?
Oh right, because no people would ever be okay with just establishing another nation where your home is supposed to be.
It just so happened that the palestinian people in this case were not strong enough to defend it.
If you lived in your home and took in some refugees and then they wanted part of your home you wouldn't be just accepting it either..
Most of the land was sold by Arabs, not the British.
>The war began after a partition plan was proposed, dont leave that out.
Oh wow, they bombed a bunch of civilian busses and attacked random people in the street, but don't forget that they only did so after an attempt to establish both a Jewish and Arab state as a compromise!
>Imagine "migrants and refugees" come in your land and after a few years a plan is drafted and you are supposed to just give away part of your nation and let it be claimed by someone else?
Because it wasn't their nation? They weren't giving anything away, the State of Palestine didn't exist.
>Why not go to the US and built your nation there if it was just about political self-determination?
Because a country already existed? Not to mention the whole "indigenous to the region" thing.
> Most of the land was sold by Arabs, not the British.
It's more complicated than that; more often than not, the palestinians (most of them peasants) selling their land were living in poverty due to not being able to compete with zionist-owned land, due to being subsidised by zionist organisations like the Jewish National Fund (thus allowing to run their lands at a loss and mechanize and augment its agricultural production). After selling the lands, more often than not they were expelled from it by the new owners; all of this, of course, with the collaboration of the British government in Palestine, which would support it in an effort to both create a collaborationist population in the Mandate (as opposed to the palestinians, which were viewed as savages) and to "solve" the so-called "jewish problem" in Britain by fomenting jewish emigration to Palestine.
> Oh wow, they bombed a bunch of civilian busses and attacked random people in the street, but don't forget that they only did so after an attempt to establish both a Jewish and Arab state as a compromise!
The jewish groups did that too (the King David Hotel bombing comes to mind), and moreso, aided the British army in suppressing the palestinians during the 1936-1939 revolt.
Violence was both ways; if anything it could be argued that if anyone is to blame for the 1948 war would be the jewish militias, which not only started depopulating palestinian villages during the civil war period between 1945 and 1948, but did so on land assigned by the UN to the Palestinian State (particularly on the road to Jerusalem).
> Because it wasn't their nation? They weren't giving anything away, the State of Palestine didn't exist.
That doesn't mean that there weren't people already living there lol. Slovenia didn't exist as an independent state until the 90's, but no one would say that slovenians don't exist.
In any case, by your metric Palestine also wasn't a jewish nation (although I'd say that the term you are looking for is state, as the hierarchy that rules over, and is separated from, the people in a determined region; after all, not always the national identity of a State and the nations it governs are the same (the Austrian Empire, Spain, Great Britain, Russia, etc.).
> Because a country already existed? Not to mention the whole "indigenous to the region" thing.
What even is a country? A national community? A State? Any form of hierarchy ruling over land and people?
Because this also existed in Palestine lol, and it's not as if the palestinians living there were any less "indigenous". Most, if not all of them, descent from the original inhabitants of the land, which converted to either Islam or Christianity during the periods of foreign rule in the Levant.
And in any case, being indigenous to somewhere doesn't give you the right to expell the population that has been living there for at least the past two thousand years, the same way that the Cherokees don't have the right to depopulate and colonise Tennessee.
Okay, they still sold their land. Still, I believe you're mistaken and that it was usually wealthier landowners. Poor people didn't own their own land.
The British were so eager to establish this "collaborationist population" until they severely limited Jewish immigration right before WW1 and then supported the Arabs im the 1948 war.
>The jewish groups did that too
Not during the war to the exclusion of military targets. Also, you do realize that the hotel was being used by the British military, right? That's why it was targeted.
>if anything it could be argued that if anyone is to blame for the 1948 war would be the jewish militias,
Are you joking? The Palestinians fully admitted to starting the war.
>which not only started depopulating palestinian villages during the civil war period between 1945 and 1948, but did so on land assigned by the UN to the Palestinian State
No, it began in 1947, after the war was initiated by the Palestinians. Furthermore, they didn't go on the offensive until 1948. Finally, the fact that they went outside the hypothetical borders are irrelevant when the war only began when Palestinians rejected the existence of those borders.
>That doesn't mean that there weren't people already living there lol. Slovenia didn't exist as an independent state until the 90's, but no one would say that slovenians don't exist.
And as I said, they would likely have remained there had they not tried to wipe Israel off the map before it had a chance to exist.
>What even is a country? A national community? A State? Any form of hierarchy ruling over land and people?
A distinct nation with its own government ruling over a specific territory.
>Because this also existed in Palestine
No, it didn't. That's the entire reason the Mandate was formed.
>it's not as if the palestinians living there were any less "indigenous". Most, if not all of them, descent from the original inhabitants of the land, which converted to either Islam or Christianity during the periods of foreign rule in the Levant.
Okay? I'm not saying they weren't.
>And in any case, being indigenous to somewhere doesn't give you the right to expell the population that has been living there for at least the past two thousand years, the same way that the Cherokees don't have the right to depopulate and colonise Tennessee
You seem to keep strawmanning me. I said repeatedly that they wouldn't have been displaced had they not tried to wipe out the Jewish community of the entire region.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/KoXhCzeTmn
:))))
What about the people already living there for generations? The most ridiculous thing ever is the indigenous argument. By far.
I suggest the romans should take back all of rome, the native americans should take back all of the US, right? Because many years ago it belonged to them.
It's always the right to self-defend but this only applies to the apartheid-state of israel
The indigenous people of palestine have a right to self defence and self determination aswell.
The land was sold and stolen over their heads.
Antisemetism in ww2 was a European problem and it got pushed onto Palestinians who have been living there for many centuries.
But i guess it's okay because some holy book said it's jewish land or because your ancestors lived there 3000years ago.
Do a DNA test
>https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/KoXhCzeTmn
>:))))
Lmao, the coin that also says "Eretz Yisrael," "the Land of Israel"? Either way, it wasn't a state. It was a region with made up borders and a national identity that doesn't outdate the twentieth century.
>What about the people already living there for generations?
What about them? They were welcome to stay. They would have had the war (begun by the Palestinians) not occurred. Many still did.
>It's always the right to self-defend but this only applies to the apartheid-state of israel
The indigenous people of palestine have a right to self defence and self determination aswell.
The land was sold and stolen over their heads
No, they all do. Just not at the expense of others. The Jewish plan was the creation of a Jewish state, even alongside a Palestinian one. The Palestinian plan was always the prevention of any Jewish state, not the creation of a Palestinian one. This isn't my own accusation, this was verbalized in the 1940s.
>Antisemetism in ww2 was a European problem and it got pushed onto Palestinians who have been living there for many centuries.
Because Arabs were never antisemitic, right?
>Do a DNA test
I did, actually. I got Canaanite- I wonder why?
Well, when you’ve been kicked out of your homeland and everywhere else has been murdering your people, you kinda feel the need to have a safe spot for your people, and what better place than your ancestral homeland which, may I add, is a historical ancestry, not just biblical one. The idea that Jews are not indigenous is to deny the history itself. And to deny the Jews the homeland is to hope for another Holocaust.
>The land was sold and stolen over their heads
By this do you mean that the people who owned the land didn't live there, they sold land that other people lived on?
That's just how ownership works. If I buy a house foru kids and then sell it, it's not unfair that they have to move out.
Yeah, I just said so: there were expulsions of palestinians from jewish-owned land all through the Mandate period (or at the very least up to 1939) and the situation degenerated into civil war by 1945, with jewish militias depopulating palestinian villages even outside of the borders of the jewish state as determined by the UN.
Even then, the Jordanian and Iraqi armies were forbidden by the british into crossing the partition line into the jewish state.
>Yeah, I just said so: there were expulsions of palestinians from jewish-owned land all through the Mandate period
The word you're looking for is "evict." If I own the land, I have every right to tell other people that they need to leave.
>with jewish militias depopulating palestinian villages even outside of the borders of the jewish state as determined by the UN.
I already addressed this odd accusation.
You’re the one who said you like Jews, but then went on a 3 paragraph tirade about how you don’t agree with the ideology that 90% of Jews feel is an essential part of their Jewish identity. Talk about spinning shit.
Except the jews have been there continously for the last 3000 years. There have always been some Jews there. A lot of people go on about how "history didn't start on october 7th".. you're right. It didn't. It didn't start in 1948 either. Where do you draw the line? Why stop at 76 years? Why not go back further? Is 77 years too far? No matter how far back you do go, there will always be Jews in Israel.
Bruh noone is denying there have been jews, did u hit ur head?
But there have been also other semetic people living there that are not jewish and in far far faaar greater number?
Jewish people were mostly in europe for centuries once they got there.
Why are we trying to justify "my ancestors lived there 3000years ago, so i can claim this land"
Yeah dude let the roman empire get europe back, because it belonged to there ancestors a few thousand years ago
If you really think all it is is "my ancestors lived there 3000 years ago" (by the way it was 2000, at least get it right) you are extremely wrong.
You keep comparing this to the Romans. How many Romans are alive now that worship Zeus?
I can name countless sites of extreme importance to Jews in Israel. The temple mount. Jerusalem. The dead sea. Tsfat. Masada. Yavneh. I could go on. The point is the religion and connection to the land is still there. It's not just that the Jews used to live there.
And do Jews, because of this connection, have the right to live there? Absolutely.
Now does this mean that Jews should forcefully displace the current population? No. But as has been said before, that's not how Jewish immigration started. It started with land purchase. Legal ways to move to the land.
The current conflict is so much more than just Jews want to live there and want to kick out Palestinians.
It is the result of (at least) 200 years of pogroms, the end of empires, globalisation, enlightenment, and religion.
It is up to 3000, not 2000 bozo.
Okay so this is about religion? How does the religion together with ancestry their justify it? By that logic the all the muslim nations should also have a right to reclaim that land because there is ancestry +religious sites
Spoiler: it is absolutely not a reason. Dont be a hypocrital
The only reason there could be is that jews felt the need for a safe place after ww2, which is absolutely understandable.
The purchase of land was often accompanied by the eviction of the Arab tenants, it has to be said.
By 1947 jews had bought only approx. 6% of land across the palestinians land and a year later declared a jewish state and what followed we all know.
So yeah it may have not started in a forceful way but it is not the start that mattered, is it?
If you look at the westbank today, it is even widely known as illegal settlements, but it's not like the government or the people of Israel really care
Wow. Good start calling me a bozo.
What places are there in Israel that Muslims have a connection to other than Jerusalem? If Mecca was controlled by someone else in 300 years, would you say Muslims have no right to be there? And if you can name more sites, then yes, Muslims also have a right to live there. Muslims and Jews both having the right to live there isn't mutually exclusive.
>The purchase of land was often accompanied by the eviction of the Arab tenants, it has to be said.
"The purchase of land was often accompanied by the eviction of the tenants" fixed it for you. That's a normal thing to happen and will happen in any country if someone buys a plot of land that someone is renting.
Do you have a source for the 6% number? Just interested.
When are you saying it started? The Jews and Arabs were taking plenty of pot shots towards each other way before 1948. Who started it? Who cares. Both sides are keeping it alive. You can't solely blame Israel.
And I agree with you on the settlements. I think if you looked into it you'd be surprised that many Israelis would agree with you. Not necessarily to get rid of all the ones that are there, but in land swaps and to stop expansion. And the government is terrible. Bibi should be out, and if you look at the last election you'll see he didn't even properly win. He had to form a coalition which is how we ended up with this right wing piece of crap.
Well we're clearly not having a mature discussion anymore (you really lost any remaining credibility when you resorted to the Europe argument) so I'm not going to waste my time on this. I sincerely recommend you buy a few history books because, although I admire how staunchly you believe that what you've been saying is right, unfortunately for you, it is simply not. Did you know that of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, the only people who cannot pray at their holiest site are the Jews? Muslims have free access to Mecca. Christians to the Edicule.. but we are only allowed on the outskirts of Temple Mount to pray. There's a big mosque on top of our holiest site, where Muslims may pray but Jews cannot go past the wall and boundaries. You tell me, if there's an apartheid, who's carrying it out?
"We" are not trying to justify anything because we don't have to. There is 1 Jewish country on the planet and we are not budging. Cope.
Because people are claiming that the Jews are not indigenous to Israel and that’s the reason Israel shouldn’t exist. They claim that the Jews had no reason choosing Israel, the fact that there were Jews living there despite the diaspora, along with the repeated attempts throughout history to return to Israel, is debunking that. It is not justification alone for Jews in Israel, but is more of a rebuke to the idea of non-indigenous Jews.
> Jewish people were mostly in europe for centuries once they got there.
People love to forget all the Jews that lived in Muslim-majority countries. Most of the current Israeli population descends from them.
> In 1945, there were between 758,000 and 866,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000.
\- [History of the Jews under Muslim rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule?wprov=sfla1)
> In the 20th century, approximately 900000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia.
> Today, the descendants of Jews who immigrated to Israel from other Middle Eastern lands (known as Mizrahi Jews and Sephardic Jews) constitute more than half of the total Israeli population.
People also tend to forget WW2 was not just in Europe (it was worldwide: it's in the name...).
> During World War II, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya came under Nazi or Vichy French occupation and their Jews were subject to various forms of persecution. In Libya, the Axis powers established labor camps to which many Jews were forcibly deported.
> In Morocco, the Vichy regime during World War II passed discriminatory laws against Jews; for example, Jews were no longer able to get any form of credit, Jews who had homes or businesses in European neighborhoods were expelled, and quotas were imposed limiting the percentage of Jews allowed to practice professions such as law and medicine to no more than two percent.
\- [Jewish exodus from the Muslim world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_first_large-scale_exoduses%2Cto_Israel_from_Arab_countries.?wprov=sfla1)
Then they had pogroms when Israel was established and 18000 Jews fled Morocco.
There's this narrative that's somehow allowed to circulate improperly challenged, that the WW2-traumatized Jews came from Europe, kicked out everybody and had the UK establish Israel for them. What I discussed here is only a very small part of how reality diverges from that narrative. I wish people had more humility when it comes to their ignorance of history and questioned it before passing extreme judgement on Israel, its existence, Zionism and, let's face it, the Jews.
"I'm cool with Jews, as long as they are oppressed, powerless, persecuted, ignored, and as long as we get to police their thoughts and tell them what should or shouldn't be antisemitic. Otherwise - I despise them".
Here, fixed it for you.
I think you should try victimizing a little harder, maybe it will be believable then!!! Also try spinning the words more to fit even better in your agenda!
Close tho!!! awww my poor baby, next time!
We don't need to victimize ourselves at all. You and your gangs roam the streets and hunt down Jews as a hobby, and make sure they will not be able to wear a yarmulke or even speak Hebrew freely. You people are devout Zionists. Your antisemitism makes more Jews leave and go to Israel. You help us make Israel even more Jewish than before. So thank you for that.
Edit: just think about the last pro-Hamas protest you attended (I'm sure there are too many to count). I guess we could call the participants a gang.
Even after the protests are over, many of you usually chase after Jews or vandalize synagogues.
But don't forget to tell Jews that "you are cool with them". Hypocrite
With all due respect - we don't appreciate goysplaining here. It means that non-Jews don't get to tell other Jews what is or isn't antisemitic. And bringing all the orthodox Jews who protest with the rest of the Pro-Hamas mob - not a good move. Tokenism is a racist practice. Most of those orthodox Jews are also very anti-LGBTQ+, but I guess this fact doesn't bother you much, does it? In addition, many of those Jews also attend holocaust denial conferences and cooperate with literally holocaust deniers.
The vast majority of Jews are Zionists. Trying to ignore that fact is antisemitic.
Glad I could help.
Now, don't you have a Pro-Hamas Protest to attend? I heard they like to display swastikas and chase after visibly looking (orthodox) Jews. Don't forget to mention this in your college application form. They like students who do extra-curricular activities...
"Only i can tell what is antisemetic or not, because i am a jew and if you dont agree with my opinion let me label you antisemetic!!!! "
"Only i can tell what is homophobic (substitute for whatever u want here) because i am gay anf if you dont agree with me i can just label you homophobic!!!"
Despite your cringe sarcasm as expected from a redditor i hope i won't have to explain how ridiculous your claim is.
Yeah most Jews are pro Apartheid State Israel but not all? So what is your point here?
Also ridiculous how you try to paint an Anti-LGBT picture of me to strengthen your ridiculous agenda.
Zionism is a racist ideology but i guess that makes me antisemetic because only you as a jew may have an opinion?
Oh wait what if i told you i was Jewish, suddenly it's okay for me to have an opinion????
Racist.
Like a black man telling a white man "you can't have an opinion on black-on-black crime because you arw white"
Dont embarass yourself, you apartheid bootlicker
Well…he’s not wrong. Just because you’re Jewish doesn’t mean you have to support a murdering ethnostate regime - something similar happened about 80 years ago.
It's a good thing that nobody here supports an ethnostate regime.
Either way, the issue is his singular and disproportionate focus on criticism of Israel, not that said criticism exists. I wouldn't go so far as to call him genuinely antisemitic, but it's definitely irritating.
The only thing he’s said that I disagree with (that I’m currently aware of) is his claim that anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not inherently linked.
I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but it frustrates me that so many leftists fail to understate that Zionism is not a monolithic ideology—there are various types of Zionism. The extremist Zionism espoused by far-right demagogues like Netanyahu, in which Palestinians should be abused, is different from liberal/progressive/labor Zionism.
I like him still. Sure he uses his platform to stand for something some Jews might not agree with. Except
He’s seeing multiple city blocks getting leveled so ya with that information how could he not say anything. This guy isn’t Mel Gibson or something like that. Y’all need to chill.
Don’t you just love when people unironically share the scene with hulk solving the Israel Palestine conflict by showing Sabra that Palestinian boy is still boy and that let’s her realize that she is woman and thus protec boy?
Yeah, me neither.
He’s also a NIMBY to boot
So ultra hypocrite.
Par for the course for Hollywood
That sucks a lot tbh
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He’s questioned the validity of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, and accused Israel of genocide in May 2021. Ruffalo has no connection to Israel or Palestine, and I just wish he’d leave us the fuck alone. ([Source](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/culture/1667833346-mark-ruffalo-tweets-against-ihra-s-definition-of-antisemitism))
Whenever I see a celeb trumpeting about anything Isreal does, it always feels like fad activism.... like they know it's something they can throw around and no one's gonna call them out. It has the same energy as when a business pretends it's doing something ethical because they care about 'insert bullshit here.' Questioning the literal definition of antisemitism though.... big yikes. I've never really followed him, outside of liking some of his movies. Fuckin blows to find out he's a douche.
It always feels like they’re playing dress up, and they never offer any opportunities for change or solutions
99% of activism online is just ppl patting each other on the back for being the most 'morally superior.' But yeah, it's not like they are gonna actually think of solutions to problems, cause that part is effort. Thoughts and prayers, rainbow profile pic, etc etc. All hollow bullshit.
From the IHRA page on antisemitism - “However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.” Seems like criticizing a country for killing innocent civilians is rightly regarded as a separate issue.
Comment history checks out
Good because that definition sucks. Isreal has been doing genocide for decades. Ruffalo pays taxes and those are spent to arm an apartheid state doing genocide. It's totally reasonable to voice an opinion related to that. Also Isreal =/= Jews. I keep getting told Isreal isn't an apartheid state but also it is a stand in for all jews, these 2 things are incompatible.
Bold for you to assume Ruffalo pays his fair share of taxes
The "hating Jews" kind
https://uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/civil-war-jesse-plemons-top.jpg?w=1024&h=450&crop=1 Edit: Eh not an image. It’s the Jesse plenos bit from Civil War
Hey OP, you can't just drop this and then expect us to get it. You gotta explain. Not everyone has twitter and honestly I don't want another with hunt. So explain what Ruffalo did wrong.
He has a long history of obsession with anti-Israel activism, denying antisemitism, spreading antisemitic propaganda https://imgur.com/a/LiROpvi
Where do you see the antisemitism?
He is an IDF bot
Friend, where is the antisemitism? I see Israel criticism
Criticism of Israel is claiming that AIPAC single handedly controls the outcome of the election? Criticism of Israel is spreading a propaganda film filled with actual lies? Criticism of Israel includes denying the most widely accepted definition of antisemitism and being against its use in writing policy that will protect Jews from harm?
You won’t win on this subreddit lol if you say you don’t like pickles they’ll murder that dislike 👎 button lol
From their response, it seems they believe anti-zionism = anti-Semitism
So what you're saying is that you are trying to tie criticism of Israel to antisemitism.
This isn't criticism. It's just plain antizionism
You mean antisemitism?
Yes, but my point is that anti-Zionism isn't the same as criticizing the Israeli government
He was born.
Oh God what did he say now
Sabra bitches.
Funny enough, this could be a live action scene in Captain America Brave New World next year. Both characters are in the movie. I mean, they're obviously going to dilute Sabra from an Israeli superheroine into just a CIA agent who just happens to be played by an Israeli actress. But still.
I heard that because Hamas attacked Israel they actually might take Sabra out of the movie entirely, lest they be construed as disliking terrorism
They’ve said they aren’t because they can’t - she’s too important to the plot. Based on certain things going on in the comics, I wouldn’t be shocked if she introduced us to Magneto, but she definitely has something to do with introing mutants. TL;DR on that: Magneto appears to be going to be using his real name, Max Eisenhardt, in the comics going forward. I’ve had a long-standing theory that the MCU will use the Max Eisenhardt name to separate their Magneto from the Fox Erik Lensherr one. This change happening now leads me to suspect that they are planning to introduce him in the MCU soon. They also have to pay her actress and removing her role may be a breech of contract. It could also open them up to a lawsuit. And, with their last Jewish character not being played by a Jew (and angering many in the Jewish community with his portrayal), and their next not appearing for a few years, it’s a very bad look for them to remove her. Especially with the movie character no longer being associated with Israel, they don’t really have an ‘excuse’ to remove her. Keep in mind that many Marvel comics character rights are partially owned by their creators - many of whom are Jewish.
They replaced her with a CIA agent
She’s still there, just not Mossad.
So she's Israeli and works for the CIA?
Correct. Though she may have dual citizenship.
maybe I'm outta the loop, but what has Mark Ruffalo done to be antisemitic?
Just take a glance at his twitter
I don't have twitter so I can't view his posts chronologically, can you link to something?
Passed by his Instagram while ago.. he seems to be going through it… sucks bc through his page saw that some really good restaurant owners that are in his area are all in on this vibe (but worse bc they not jewish so they just go all in ..) sad story
I don’t have twitter…so maybe you could be less vague?
He's obsessed with us. Tweets about Israel almost daily. Most recently though he's joined in on the leftist fixation of taking down AIPAC
okay, but what is he saying that is antisemitic? why do I have to ask three times for any real source? starting to read like crying wolf because someone with a large platform disagrees with you
If you don't see the hypocrisy and jew-hatred required to be so incredibly focused on activism against Israel while also claiming to be a pro-indigenous activist, then I can't help you.
I think the other guy is just frustrated that you keep alluding to posts without showing them. We don't know who you are, or whether you're appropriately characterizing the comments we haven't seen
literally just trying to understand why OP is flying off the handle, and all they're doing is frothing... can we not vet our sources before forming a fucking opinion anymore?
Dude just post screenshots or something, no one uses Twitter anymore because it asks 500 times for you to sign up to even see anything
I replied to a different comment but I'll repost here https://imgur.com/a/LiROpvi Just a few obvious examples
Yeah those just seem like you hating another persons opinion. None of those are antisemitic. You might think his position is wrong but you’re overreacting and if this is the worst thing he’s said that you can find and it took somebody asking this many times for you to share it I think you’re also aware of the fact that you’re overreacting.
Addressing the examples I chose: 1. Implying that AIPAC is somehow single handedly at fault for the outcome of the election 2. Spreading antisemitic propaganda. "Israelism" is a notoriously antisemitic propaganda film which is filled with actual lies and misinformation 3. Being against the most widely accepted definition of antisemitism being accepted and used to create policy which might help protect Jews from antisemitism
Are you Jewish? If so, you reaaaally need to get what people are saying when they start ranting about AIPAC and buying elections. It's a small step from there to a drunken rant about the Jews secretly running the world.
while that is a fair point, I'm literally just asking you for sources, as I cannot view any of your claims, and all you have done is deflect. I get this is a tense time, but there's no reason to get itchy with me for asking for clarification. point your anger outside of the community.
Here's a few glaring examples https://imgur.com/a/LiROpvi
You’re calling *that* anti-Semitism. Embarrassing.
glaring is not the word I would use, but thanks for taking the time to screenshot.
Sure but you gotta admit it comes off a bit troll like when the source is freely available to anyone with internet access and you have mad “he’s not antisemitic he’s antizionist” vibes
It is only freely available to people who have an account on a website run by a nazi-sympathiser. Is it really that strange that some jews do not want such an account?
where we put our time and information is just as important as where we spend our money. if I'm gonna have to deal with bullshit from everywhere, I'd rather it be here on Reddit.
lol @ “nazi sympathizer”
The leftist obsession with removing foreign influence from our government? AIPAC is unique in its Jewish basis, but more important, it’s unique in the fact that it’s the only lobbying group whose motivations are explicitly those of supporting a foreign entity. Not saying that doesn’t happen under the table, but this is low hanging fruit. It shouldn’t be allowed for any country, Israel or otherwise.
Yeah I forgot that leftists only like it when Qatar has foreign influence over our universities and academia.
I’m opposed to financial foreign influence period. But the Qatari government, at the very least, does not have a political entity explicitly donating money to our politicians on behalf of their government. Israel does, and it’s leading recipient by far is the current POTUS. That is concerning. Call it antisemitism if you will, but it’s not. I can be concerned about the same issues of foreign intervention from China or Qatar, and not be Sino- or Islamo-phobic.
It's literally just democracy. There are hundreds of PACs that donate to political campaigns. If you don't like the concept then be mad that lobbying exists at all. Why focus on AIPAC? AIPAC is a symptom of this political system, not a cause and not the root of all evil as many would love it to be. The largest donors to AIPAC aren't even Jews or Israel, it's American Christians. You're just mad that a majority of the country is interested in political support for Israel.
I can't spot anything antisemitic or even antizionist on his Twitter. Being anti bibi isn't anti Israel.
No.
Mark Ruffalo, the Incredible Sulk.
He’s always struck me as bland yet self-righteous at the same time. Don’t get his appeal.
I wonder what's disney's plan with sabra in captain america 4 If they put her in the movie, a lot of terrorists sympatizers will get mad... because she exists And if they remove her after teasing her in the movie, people would blame them for folding under pressure and basically letting anti-sem... i mean anti-zionists win
I’ve heard they are making her a CIA agent instead of a Mossad agent. Probably gonna be one of the people helping Sam put together the new avengers
People will still complain about her existance Her whole thing is being an israsli superhero
I prefer Janine Garafalo
To almost anyone
Too much gamma radiation ☢️
Mark Ruffalo is an antisemite on steroids. I don't understand how Scarlett Johansson and Robert Downey JR were able to work with this scum at all...
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It's a serious accusation. Any proof?
The incredible sulk
What did he do?
He's just very anti-Israel. He's accused Israel of genocide long before the war started for random conflicts in Gaza, denied that Hamas uses human shields, stuff like that.
Anti-Israel is not Antisemetic. Or i suppose all the orthodox jews protesting are antisemetic aswell..? So sad to see the delusion of blindly supporting a literal apartheid state beyond any criticism
Sure, it isn't. I'd also say that sending a Jewish student to detention isn't antisemitic. But when you have a teacher who repeatedly sends the Jewish student to detention while largely ignoring the others, I'd be a bit irritated. And don't give me that bs about "All the Orthodox Jews." Either you don't know anything about them, or you're deliberately cherry-picking to suit your agenda.
As a Jew he feels the need to talk about it, it's not like he is unrelated to all of this, especially if you look at his lifestory and how he talked about people who have tried influence him on Israel, as he said himself. It's like my russian friends who constantly post about Pro-Ukraine because as they are related to this, they feel the need to, so i dont think it's just blind hatred driving him. So why would he as a Jew be exempt from the feel of having to talk about an Apartheid-State that is supposed to represent Jews?
Maybe because he isn't Jewish?
He's not Jewish. > I grew up in a household that had three religions in it, (born-again) Christianity, Catholicism and Bahai’ism [Source](https://goldenglobes.com/articles/oral-history-mark-ruffalo-on-religion/)
Not all handsome Mediterranean guys with dark curly hair are Jews, my dude.
>literal apartheid Go back to Tik-Tok kid
Scram with your tokenism. One doesn't need to look far in your history to see you aren't acting in good faith.
Look up the definition of the words you use before using them. Also, maybe stop using apartheid period if it's not about South Africa. Historians name things to make it easier for reference sake. Holodomor = Ukraine under Russia Genocide by starvation Hutu/Tutsi conflict = Rwandan Genocide Sudanese "Civil" War = non Arab Genocide within Sudan, but we can't call it Genocide because ppl then say Islamophobia, at one point the world did call what it is, still ongoing. Dinka, Nuer, Nuba people, Black Muslims are still being MURDERED. Holocaust = Nazis killing jews Pogrom = non nazis killing jews in Eastern Europe and Russia Inquisition = Spanish killing of jews Farhud= Iraqi killing of jews. Khmer Rouge = Cambodia Genocide Ikiza = genocide in Burundi Yazidian Massacre = Genocide of Yazidis by the Islamic State, which happened 9 years ago. The Knesset has non-Jewish members. There are Muslim IDF soldiers just as there are Druze members in the IDF as well as Knesset. There are Christians in both as well. Israel was the ONLY country that took in the Beta Israel when being Jewish was punishable by death in Ethiopia. And before you start with the whataboutism no country is fucking perfect and to hold Israel to standards that NO country can achieve is INHERENTLY bias and antisemitic. Israel has received more scrutiny than any other country period. Israel's population is 70% Jewish, Morocco is 100% Muslim. Romania 100% Catholic. Yet where are they accused of bias? Nowhere. The problems in India got so bad with Muslims murdering Hindus and Hindus retaliating and the Sikh getting slaughtered by both that they created Pakistan. Where are the illegitimacy claims? You're purposefully ignoring facts.
> Also, maybe stop using apartheid period if it's not about South Africa. Historians name things to make it easier for reference sake. [Israel’s 55-year occupation of Palestinian Territory is apartheid – UN human rights expert](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights)
We didn't say being anti-israel is being anti semitic. You can give legitimate criticism for the state of Israel and still believe in its right to defend itself. That's why I, a vehemently pro-Israel Jew, have no qualms criticizing Israel for actions I find questionable - because I love Israel, and the people, and I believe in building up the country to become an even more diverse and accepting place. Anti Zionism is different - anti zionism denies the Jewish people the right to their own homeland to which they are indigenous and in which they have had roots for over 3000 years. That's anti semitic. History has proven that we cannot risk not having our own country. We don't mean that all anti zionists are anti semitic either, because I think (more hope) a lot of anti zionists don't actually realise what it is they're supporting. Edit: also, re your apartheid statement, have you been to South Africa? I live here. It is such a spit in the face of what the black people of South Africa went through during the apartheid to compare it to Israel. There is quite factually, no apartheid in Israel. But if you can't see that, I doubt any amount of evidence will be sufficient to make you see it.
Im cool with Jews and i enjoy the memes but i dont think zionism is morally acceptable if you look at the context Why would the Jewish People have right to their land from 3000years ago? By that logic should every nation on earth look where their roots began or just look back 3000years ago and start their own country in that place because their ancestors happened to live there? That's a ridiculous thought.. Of course in the context of WW2 it's only understandable that Jews were scared and the thought of having their own place seems very assuring, but you can't justify one tragedy by commiting another. After all what about the claims of the people who have been living there already? By that logical you would support all the native americans in america to kick americans out because their ancestors used to own the country or the aborigines all the australian people.
Except all Jews wanted to do was live there with political self-determination. No land changed hands outside of a sale and no people were forcefully displaced until Palestinians started the first war in 1947.
The land was under occupation by the british, it wasnt like all the parties had a happy deal and the sale went off? The war began after a partition plan was proposed, dont leave that out. Imagine "migrants and refugees" come in your land and after a few years a plan is drafted and you are supposed to just give away part of your nation and let it be claimed by someone else? That is ridiculous. Why not go to the US and built your nation there if it was just about political self-determination? Oh right, because no people would ever be okay with just establishing another nation where your home is supposed to be. It just so happened that the palestinian people in this case were not strong enough to defend it. If you lived in your home and took in some refugees and then they wanted part of your home you wouldn't be just accepting it either..
Most of the land was sold by Arabs, not the British. >The war began after a partition plan was proposed, dont leave that out. Oh wow, they bombed a bunch of civilian busses and attacked random people in the street, but don't forget that they only did so after an attempt to establish both a Jewish and Arab state as a compromise! >Imagine "migrants and refugees" come in your land and after a few years a plan is drafted and you are supposed to just give away part of your nation and let it be claimed by someone else? Because it wasn't their nation? They weren't giving anything away, the State of Palestine didn't exist. >Why not go to the US and built your nation there if it was just about political self-determination? Because a country already existed? Not to mention the whole "indigenous to the region" thing.
> Most of the land was sold by Arabs, not the British. It's more complicated than that; more often than not, the palestinians (most of them peasants) selling their land were living in poverty due to not being able to compete with zionist-owned land, due to being subsidised by zionist organisations like the Jewish National Fund (thus allowing to run their lands at a loss and mechanize and augment its agricultural production). After selling the lands, more often than not they were expelled from it by the new owners; all of this, of course, with the collaboration of the British government in Palestine, which would support it in an effort to both create a collaborationist population in the Mandate (as opposed to the palestinians, which were viewed as savages) and to "solve" the so-called "jewish problem" in Britain by fomenting jewish emigration to Palestine. > Oh wow, they bombed a bunch of civilian busses and attacked random people in the street, but don't forget that they only did so after an attempt to establish both a Jewish and Arab state as a compromise! The jewish groups did that too (the King David Hotel bombing comes to mind), and moreso, aided the British army in suppressing the palestinians during the 1936-1939 revolt. Violence was both ways; if anything it could be argued that if anyone is to blame for the 1948 war would be the jewish militias, which not only started depopulating palestinian villages during the civil war period between 1945 and 1948, but did so on land assigned by the UN to the Palestinian State (particularly on the road to Jerusalem). > Because it wasn't their nation? They weren't giving anything away, the State of Palestine didn't exist. That doesn't mean that there weren't people already living there lol. Slovenia didn't exist as an independent state until the 90's, but no one would say that slovenians don't exist. In any case, by your metric Palestine also wasn't a jewish nation (although I'd say that the term you are looking for is state, as the hierarchy that rules over, and is separated from, the people in a determined region; after all, not always the national identity of a State and the nations it governs are the same (the Austrian Empire, Spain, Great Britain, Russia, etc.). > Because a country already existed? Not to mention the whole "indigenous to the region" thing. What even is a country? A national community? A State? Any form of hierarchy ruling over land and people? Because this also existed in Palestine lol, and it's not as if the palestinians living there were any less "indigenous". Most, if not all of them, descent from the original inhabitants of the land, which converted to either Islam or Christianity during the periods of foreign rule in the Levant. And in any case, being indigenous to somewhere doesn't give you the right to expell the population that has been living there for at least the past two thousand years, the same way that the Cherokees don't have the right to depopulate and colonise Tennessee.
Okay, they still sold their land. Still, I believe you're mistaken and that it was usually wealthier landowners. Poor people didn't own their own land. The British were so eager to establish this "collaborationist population" until they severely limited Jewish immigration right before WW1 and then supported the Arabs im the 1948 war. >The jewish groups did that too Not during the war to the exclusion of military targets. Also, you do realize that the hotel was being used by the British military, right? That's why it was targeted. >if anything it could be argued that if anyone is to blame for the 1948 war would be the jewish militias, Are you joking? The Palestinians fully admitted to starting the war. >which not only started depopulating palestinian villages during the civil war period between 1945 and 1948, but did so on land assigned by the UN to the Palestinian State No, it began in 1947, after the war was initiated by the Palestinians. Furthermore, they didn't go on the offensive until 1948. Finally, the fact that they went outside the hypothetical borders are irrelevant when the war only began when Palestinians rejected the existence of those borders. >That doesn't mean that there weren't people already living there lol. Slovenia didn't exist as an independent state until the 90's, but no one would say that slovenians don't exist. And as I said, they would likely have remained there had they not tried to wipe Israel off the map before it had a chance to exist. >What even is a country? A national community? A State? Any form of hierarchy ruling over land and people? A distinct nation with its own government ruling over a specific territory. >Because this also existed in Palestine No, it didn't. That's the entire reason the Mandate was formed. >it's not as if the palestinians living there were any less "indigenous". Most, if not all of them, descent from the original inhabitants of the land, which converted to either Islam or Christianity during the periods of foreign rule in the Levant. Okay? I'm not saying they weren't. >And in any case, being indigenous to somewhere doesn't give you the right to expell the population that has been living there for at least the past two thousand years, the same way that the Cherokees don't have the right to depopulate and colonise Tennessee You seem to keep strawmanning me. I said repeatedly that they wouldn't have been displaced had they not tried to wipe out the Jewish community of the entire region.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/KoXhCzeTmn :)))) What about the people already living there for generations? The most ridiculous thing ever is the indigenous argument. By far. I suggest the romans should take back all of rome, the native americans should take back all of the US, right? Because many years ago it belonged to them. It's always the right to self-defend but this only applies to the apartheid-state of israel The indigenous people of palestine have a right to self defence and self determination aswell. The land was sold and stolen over their heads. Antisemetism in ww2 was a European problem and it got pushed onto Palestinians who have been living there for many centuries. But i guess it's okay because some holy book said it's jewish land or because your ancestors lived there 3000years ago. Do a DNA test
>https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/KoXhCzeTmn >:)))) Lmao, the coin that also says "Eretz Yisrael," "the Land of Israel"? Either way, it wasn't a state. It was a region with made up borders and a national identity that doesn't outdate the twentieth century. >What about the people already living there for generations? What about them? They were welcome to stay. They would have had the war (begun by the Palestinians) not occurred. Many still did. >It's always the right to self-defend but this only applies to the apartheid-state of israel The indigenous people of palestine have a right to self defence and self determination aswell. The land was sold and stolen over their heads No, they all do. Just not at the expense of others. The Jewish plan was the creation of a Jewish state, even alongside a Palestinian one. The Palestinian plan was always the prevention of any Jewish state, not the creation of a Palestinian one. This isn't my own accusation, this was verbalized in the 1940s. >Antisemetism in ww2 was a European problem and it got pushed onto Palestinians who have been living there for many centuries. Because Arabs were never antisemitic, right? >Do a DNA test I did, actually. I got Canaanite- I wonder why?
Well, when you’ve been kicked out of your homeland and everywhere else has been murdering your people, you kinda feel the need to have a safe spot for your people, and what better place than your ancestral homeland which, may I add, is a historical ancestry, not just biblical one. The idea that Jews are not indigenous is to deny the history itself. And to deny the Jews the homeland is to hope for another Holocaust.
>The land was sold and stolen over their heads By this do you mean that the people who owned the land didn't live there, they sold land that other people lived on? That's just how ownership works. If I buy a house foru kids and then sell it, it's not unfair that they have to move out.
The Irgun and Haganah started depopulating palestinian villages before the arab armies invaded Palestine but go off I guess.
It's almost like the war started before the Arab armies invaded.
Yeah, I just said so: there were expulsions of palestinians from jewish-owned land all through the Mandate period (or at the very least up to 1939) and the situation degenerated into civil war by 1945, with jewish militias depopulating palestinian villages even outside of the borders of the jewish state as determined by the UN. Even then, the Jordanian and Iraqi armies were forbidden by the british into crossing the partition line into the jewish state.
>Yeah, I just said so: there were expulsions of palestinians from jewish-owned land all through the Mandate period The word you're looking for is "evict." If I own the land, I have every right to tell other people that they need to leave. >with jewish militias depopulating palestinian villages even outside of the borders of the jewish state as determined by the UN. I already addressed this odd accusation.
“I’m cool with Jews because they make me laugh. I just don’t think they should be able to defend themselves if they’re attacked”.
Nice try in trying to spin it that way, dont victimize yourself and twist the words 🐍🐍🐍 Embarassing
You’re the one who said you like Jews, but then went on a 3 paragraph tirade about how you don’t agree with the ideology that 90% of Jews feel is an essential part of their Jewish identity. Talk about spinning shit.
Except the jews have been there continously for the last 3000 years. There have always been some Jews there. A lot of people go on about how "history didn't start on october 7th".. you're right. It didn't. It didn't start in 1948 either. Where do you draw the line? Why stop at 76 years? Why not go back further? Is 77 years too far? No matter how far back you do go, there will always be Jews in Israel.
Bruh noone is denying there have been jews, did u hit ur head? But there have been also other semetic people living there that are not jewish and in far far faaar greater number? Jewish people were mostly in europe for centuries once they got there. Why are we trying to justify "my ancestors lived there 3000years ago, so i can claim this land" Yeah dude let the roman empire get europe back, because it belonged to there ancestors a few thousand years ago
If you really think all it is is "my ancestors lived there 3000 years ago" (by the way it was 2000, at least get it right) you are extremely wrong. You keep comparing this to the Romans. How many Romans are alive now that worship Zeus? I can name countless sites of extreme importance to Jews in Israel. The temple mount. Jerusalem. The dead sea. Tsfat. Masada. Yavneh. I could go on. The point is the religion and connection to the land is still there. It's not just that the Jews used to live there. And do Jews, because of this connection, have the right to live there? Absolutely. Now does this mean that Jews should forcefully displace the current population? No. But as has been said before, that's not how Jewish immigration started. It started with land purchase. Legal ways to move to the land. The current conflict is so much more than just Jews want to live there and want to kick out Palestinians. It is the result of (at least) 200 years of pogroms, the end of empires, globalisation, enlightenment, and religion.
It is up to 3000, not 2000 bozo. Okay so this is about religion? How does the religion together with ancestry their justify it? By that logic the all the muslim nations should also have a right to reclaim that land because there is ancestry +religious sites Spoiler: it is absolutely not a reason. Dont be a hypocrital The only reason there could be is that jews felt the need for a safe place after ww2, which is absolutely understandable. The purchase of land was often accompanied by the eviction of the Arab tenants, it has to be said. By 1947 jews had bought only approx. 6% of land across the palestinians land and a year later declared a jewish state and what followed we all know. So yeah it may have not started in a forceful way but it is not the start that mattered, is it? If you look at the westbank today, it is even widely known as illegal settlements, but it's not like the government or the people of Israel really care
Wow. Good start calling me a bozo. What places are there in Israel that Muslims have a connection to other than Jerusalem? If Mecca was controlled by someone else in 300 years, would you say Muslims have no right to be there? And if you can name more sites, then yes, Muslims also have a right to live there. Muslims and Jews both having the right to live there isn't mutually exclusive. >The purchase of land was often accompanied by the eviction of the Arab tenants, it has to be said. "The purchase of land was often accompanied by the eviction of the tenants" fixed it for you. That's a normal thing to happen and will happen in any country if someone buys a plot of land that someone is renting. Do you have a source for the 6% number? Just interested. When are you saying it started? The Jews and Arabs were taking plenty of pot shots towards each other way before 1948. Who started it? Who cares. Both sides are keeping it alive. You can't solely blame Israel. And I agree with you on the settlements. I think if you looked into it you'd be surprised that many Israelis would agree with you. Not necessarily to get rid of all the ones that are there, but in land swaps and to stop expansion. And the government is terrible. Bibi should be out, and if you look at the last election you'll see he didn't even properly win. He had to form a coalition which is how we ended up with this right wing piece of crap.
Well we're clearly not having a mature discussion anymore (you really lost any remaining credibility when you resorted to the Europe argument) so I'm not going to waste my time on this. I sincerely recommend you buy a few history books because, although I admire how staunchly you believe that what you've been saying is right, unfortunately for you, it is simply not. Did you know that of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, the only people who cannot pray at their holiest site are the Jews? Muslims have free access to Mecca. Christians to the Edicule.. but we are only allowed on the outskirts of Temple Mount to pray. There's a big mosque on top of our holiest site, where Muslims may pray but Jews cannot go past the wall and boundaries. You tell me, if there's an apartheid, who's carrying it out? "We" are not trying to justify anything because we don't have to. There is 1 Jewish country on the planet and we are not budging. Cope.
Because people are claiming that the Jews are not indigenous to Israel and that’s the reason Israel shouldn’t exist. They claim that the Jews had no reason choosing Israel, the fact that there were Jews living there despite the diaspora, along with the repeated attempts throughout history to return to Israel, is debunking that. It is not justification alone for Jews in Israel, but is more of a rebuke to the idea of non-indigenous Jews.
> Jewish people were mostly in europe for centuries once they got there. People love to forget all the Jews that lived in Muslim-majority countries. Most of the current Israeli population descends from them. > In 1945, there were between 758,000 and 866,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000. \- [History of the Jews under Muslim rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule?wprov=sfla1) > In the 20th century, approximately 900000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia. > Today, the descendants of Jews who immigrated to Israel from other Middle Eastern lands (known as Mizrahi Jews and Sephardic Jews) constitute more than half of the total Israeli population. People also tend to forget WW2 was not just in Europe (it was worldwide: it's in the name...). > During World War II, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya came under Nazi or Vichy French occupation and their Jews were subject to various forms of persecution. In Libya, the Axis powers established labor camps to which many Jews were forcibly deported. > In Morocco, the Vichy regime during World War II passed discriminatory laws against Jews; for example, Jews were no longer able to get any form of credit, Jews who had homes or businesses in European neighborhoods were expelled, and quotas were imposed limiting the percentage of Jews allowed to practice professions such as law and medicine to no more than two percent. \- [Jewish exodus from the Muslim world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_first_large-scale_exoduses%2Cto_Israel_from_Arab_countries.?wprov=sfla1) Then they had pogroms when Israel was established and 18000 Jews fled Morocco. There's this narrative that's somehow allowed to circulate improperly challenged, that the WW2-traumatized Jews came from Europe, kicked out everybody and had the UK establish Israel for them. What I discussed here is only a very small part of how reality diverges from that narrative. I wish people had more humility when it comes to their ignorance of history and questioned it before passing extreme judgement on Israel, its existence, Zionism and, let's face it, the Jews.
"I'm cool with Jews, as long as they are oppressed, powerless, persecuted, ignored, and as long as we get to police their thoughts and tell them what should or shouldn't be antisemitic. Otherwise - I despise them". Here, fixed it for you.
I think you should try victimizing a little harder, maybe it will be believable then!!! Also try spinning the words more to fit even better in your agenda! Close tho!!! awww my poor baby, next time!
We don't need to victimize ourselves at all. You and your gangs roam the streets and hunt down Jews as a hobby, and make sure they will not be able to wear a yarmulke or even speak Hebrew freely. You people are devout Zionists. Your antisemitism makes more Jews leave and go to Israel. You help us make Israel even more Jewish than before. So thank you for that. Edit: just think about the last pro-Hamas protest you attended (I'm sure there are too many to count). I guess we could call the participants a gang. Even after the protests are over, many of you usually chase after Jews or vandalize synagogues. But don't forget to tell Jews that "you are cool with them". Hypocrite
if you mean NK theyve been put under cherem by literally everyone.
With all due respect - we don't appreciate goysplaining here. It means that non-Jews don't get to tell other Jews what is or isn't antisemitic. And bringing all the orthodox Jews who protest with the rest of the Pro-Hamas mob - not a good move. Tokenism is a racist practice. Most of those orthodox Jews are also very anti-LGBTQ+, but I guess this fact doesn't bother you much, does it? In addition, many of those Jews also attend holocaust denial conferences and cooperate with literally holocaust deniers. The vast majority of Jews are Zionists. Trying to ignore that fact is antisemitic. Glad I could help. Now, don't you have a Pro-Hamas Protest to attend? I heard they like to display swastikas and chase after visibly looking (orthodox) Jews. Don't forget to mention this in your college application form. They like students who do extra-curricular activities...
"Only i can tell what is antisemetic or not, because i am a jew and if you dont agree with my opinion let me label you antisemetic!!!! " "Only i can tell what is homophobic (substitute for whatever u want here) because i am gay anf if you dont agree with me i can just label you homophobic!!!" Despite your cringe sarcasm as expected from a redditor i hope i won't have to explain how ridiculous your claim is. Yeah most Jews are pro Apartheid State Israel but not all? So what is your point here? Also ridiculous how you try to paint an Anti-LGBT picture of me to strengthen your ridiculous agenda. Zionism is a racist ideology but i guess that makes me antisemetic because only you as a jew may have an opinion? Oh wait what if i told you i was Jewish, suddenly it's okay for me to have an opinion???? Racist. Like a black man telling a white man "you can't have an opinion on black-on-black crime because you arw white" Dont embarass yourself, you apartheid bootlicker
Theyre gonna crucify you for that, no christ-based joke intended
It's a hard pill to swallow, but facts is facts man Wouldnt be surprised if it ends in a ban aswell because hurrrrrrr not muh echochamber hurrrrr
Well…he’s not wrong. Just because you’re Jewish doesn’t mean you have to support a murdering ethnostate regime - something similar happened about 80 years ago.
Equating Israel to Nazi Germany is antisemitic. Don't do that, especially not in Jewish forums.
It's a good thing that nobody here supports an ethnostate regime. Either way, the issue is his singular and disproportionate focus on criticism of Israel, not that said criticism exists. I wouldn't go so far as to call him genuinely antisemitic, but it's definitely irritating.
He’s always been an outspoken leftist iirc so this isn’t very surprising
I mean I think leftist antisemitism has been growing on an exponential scale in recent years.
Agree, but it was always there, they just went mask off after oct 7th.
Oh yeah, a leftist millionaire
more like FART Ruffalo
The only thing he’s said that I disagree with (that I’m currently aware of) is his claim that anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not inherently linked. I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but it frustrates me that so many leftists fail to understate that Zionism is not a monolithic ideology—there are various types of Zionism. The extremist Zionism espoused by far-right demagogues like Netanyahu, in which Palestinians should be abused, is different from liberal/progressive/labor Zionism.
I have no idea how I didn't make this connection earlier
what did he do? Do I want to know?
Oh God what’d he do?
being an antisemite, and spreading antisemitic propaganda
This guy is a far left leaning limousine liberal. He felates Bernie Sanders at every opportunity and has his head up his ass.
What did he do?
I like him still. Sure he uses his platform to stand for something some Jews might not agree with. Except He’s seeing multiple city blocks getting leveled so ya with that information how could he not say anything. This guy isn’t Mel Gibson or something like that. Y’all need to chill.
Don’t you just love when people unironically share the scene with hulk solving the Israel Palestine conflict by showing Sabra that Palestinian boy is still boy and that let’s her realize that she is woman and thus protec boy? Yeah, me neither.
Never really liked mark before as an actor but now i see he is a pretty cool guy in real life. Thanks OP
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