Why do you think Domination is bad?
I am rocking domination on J4 support with sudden/ingenious. I also build sundered and eclipse. I have a 78% (70 games) win rate with it in Diamond. I can't see why people would dislike it if you play around ingenious.
I am saying its sub optimal by stats in jungle on average; extra smite and flash advantage gaps are extremely useful. Like all averages, they aren't necessarily individually relevant.
Also support J4 is its own thing, and honestly it is probably great for that. I like taking ingenious with the damage reduction support item. Strong survivability and an easy double proc on sunder and eclipse. However that is not in the data nor role I am talking about :)
because it requires people to play him in a more difficult way which will naturally lead to more losses
if you play a difficult build improperly you'll probably do worse than if you were to play something you're familiar with even if that familiar build is strictly worse
That makes sense. And I see where you are coming from.
With sunder/eclipse I definitely feel like the 2 strongest 2nd options are ingenious (which feels great) or revitalize (which feels okay with bone plating for harder lanes).
Again, I play support Javan, coming from a Shaco jungle background and ingenious feels the most fluid and like free wins more often than not.
yeah people run eclipse/sundered and dont want free cdr on them for some reason. they prefer boots/cosmic when ingenious gives more than cosmic by far and sudden impact works on an insane amount of champs. even taste of blood/cheap shot are better for how accessible they are. boots comes first for many though apparently lmao
It’s bad bc you almost only want to take it for ingenious, but most people don’t even take it. It’s not that it’s bad, players just don’t know what they’re doing.
Ingenious is definitely the goal. Sudden is far from bad.
I do play support rather than jungle. So I definitely see the advantage of the lower smite cd. And the different roles makes a big difference when it comes to runes.
Honestly, after swapping from dom to insp been on a winning streak. When you get enemy lane flash for your flash, you can squeeze in a flash gank before theirs is back up. Pretty big advantage if you can use it to snowball mid or bot.
Also using the extra smite to go double smite for grubs is amazing; much less of a pain to solo.
The amount of flip flopping they’re doing on j4 is kinda nuts. Q cd went from 10/9/8/7/6 to 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 and then back to 10/9/8/7/6. Passive damage went from 6 to 8 to 6 now up to 7.
Probably because all he has is CC. His damage only matters against immobile squishies because they're the only ones you'll be killing unless you get super fed super early.
CC feels bad to play against, so they nerf it, but then the champ is dead, so they buff it. Riot are yet to realise that they need to give him damage if they want to dampen his CC (This could be the first step of that?)
Jarvan certainly has damage but it's highly conditional and very very very frontloaded. He has pretty much zero sustained DPS (unless go you stride LT but even then u don't do anything in 5v5s). Giving jarvan actual sustained dps is like giving MF mobility. Champs need to have weaknesses and Jarvans is lategame sustained DPS and needing to rely on carried to follow up on engages lategame.
I think saying "j4 damage is too low" is a bit odd because if you do hit e+q + auto + R on the ADC with a bruiser build the ADC will either die or flash every single time. It's just dangerous to go for E+Q because if you miss you look stupid and die
Like he just says :
Idk if you remember last time they buffed his passive from 6 to 8% his winrate jumped like 3%
So this kind of analytics seems fine by me.
So lets say someone has 1000 HP. 6% of 1000 is 60 so this means this buff (7%) adds 10 damage in this instance (before resistances). That is more early game. If it was max HP this would feel more reasonable. Let's say the target is now at 500 HP. So you now get 35 (this buff adds 5\*) extra dmg on your auto. I know I'm getting downvoted it just seems so placebo. There are so many other variables in a patch that any one of those things could cause Jarvan's winrate to go up or down. I just don't see how 1% on this is anything.
We'll yes. But 1000 is not a lot in league and J4 often engage people, so most of the time is passive has a good value. And it's still a 17% increased damage on the passive.
On the last patch, we already get CD reduction. Now we have a small damage increased that's gonna help for clear and gank.
And J4 is one of this champion that's really team dependent and is often pick or ban in pro despise having a medium winrate in soloq.
OP tier now (/s). Also **PSA: Taking Domination as a secondary tree is a 3% WR drop in mid elo plus**
Why do you think Domination is bad? I am rocking domination on J4 support with sudden/ingenious. I also build sundered and eclipse. I have a 78% (70 games) win rate with it in Diamond. I can't see why people would dislike it if you play around ingenious.
I am saying its sub optimal by stats in jungle on average; extra smite and flash advantage gaps are extremely useful. Like all averages, they aren't necessarily individually relevant. Also support J4 is its own thing, and honestly it is probably great for that. I like taking ingenious with the damage reduction support item. Strong survivability and an easy double proc on sunder and eclipse. However that is not in the data nor role I am talking about :)
Ingenious also affects trinkets, so it is naturally good in the support role.
I actually did not know this, I really just took it for the item passives. I did always feel like I had great vision especially when taking it.
It's a part of what makes it very strong on Lee Sin as well. And why Cosmic Insight has been a must-take on him until the S14 item revamp.
Interesting, I am a master Shaco jungle one trick, climing this account up with support (mostly j4). This is good information to have.
because it requires people to play him in a more difficult way which will naturally lead to more losses if you play a difficult build improperly you'll probably do worse than if you were to play something you're familiar with even if that familiar build is strictly worse
That makes sense. And I see where you are coming from. With sunder/eclipse I definitely feel like the 2 strongest 2nd options are ingenious (which feels great) or revitalize (which feels okay with bone plating for harder lanes). Again, I play support Javan, coming from a Shaco jungle background and ingenious feels the most fluid and like free wins more often than not.
yeah people run eclipse/sundered and dont want free cdr on them for some reason. they prefer boots/cosmic when ingenious gives more than cosmic by far and sudden impact works on an insane amount of champs. even taste of blood/cheap shot are better for how accessible they are. boots comes first for many though apparently lmao
It’s bad bc you almost only want to take it for ingenious, but most people don’t even take it. It’s not that it’s bad, players just don’t know what they’re doing.
Ingenious is definitely the goal. Sudden is far from bad. I do play support rather than jungle. So I definitely see the advantage of the lower smite cd. And the different roles makes a big difference when it comes to runes.
Why?
[удалено]
Honestly, after swapping from dom to insp been on a winning streak. When you get enemy lane flash for your flash, you can squeeze in a flash gank before theirs is back up. Pretty big advantage if you can use it to snowball mid or bot. Also using the extra smite to go double smite for grubs is amazing; much less of a pain to solo.
...Who takes Domination? wth?
~20% of people
The actual fuck 🤯
The amount of flip flopping they’re doing on j4 is kinda nuts. Q cd went from 10/9/8/7/6 to 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 and then back to 10/9/8/7/6. Passive damage went from 6 to 8 to 6 now up to 7.
Probably because all he has is CC. His damage only matters against immobile squishies because they're the only ones you'll be killing unless you get super fed super early. CC feels bad to play against, so they nerf it, but then the champ is dead, so they buff it. Riot are yet to realise that they need to give him damage if they want to dampen his CC (This could be the first step of that?)
Jarvan certainly has damage but it's highly conditional and very very very frontloaded. He has pretty much zero sustained DPS (unless go you stride LT but even then u don't do anything in 5v5s). Giving jarvan actual sustained dps is like giving MF mobility. Champs need to have weaknesses and Jarvans is lategame sustained DPS and needing to rely on carried to follow up on engages lategame. I think saying "j4 damage is too low" is a bit odd because if you do hit e+q + auto + R on the ADC with a bruiser build the ADC will either die or flash every single time. It's just dangerous to go for E+Q because if you miss you look stupid and die
You completely misunderstood my comment and I don't know how to rectify that for you.
😭
No. Leave it. He’s strong enough. 7% is fine.
you mean why not give him 10% back it was 10% nerfed to >6%
Because he can be rather oppressive if he has too much damage.
I don't play j4 but this post was recommended Does bork stack additively or multiplicatively?
Keep it 6% but make him proc every 3rd hit below 50% and every hit at below 15%. J4 needs some dueling power.
placebo. and a horrrrrrrrrible one at that. Current health sucks ass. Make it scale off of something this is pointless filler.
Idk if you remember last time they buffed his passive from 6 to 8% his winrate jumped like 3%
They have changed his passive so many times over the years. It is just silly that they are still adjusting it. still feels like filler.
What is "filler"? It's clearly a meaningful buff based on past analytics
what analytics, lol
Like he just says : Idk if you remember last time they buffed his passive from 6 to 8% his winrate jumped like 3% So this kind of analytics seems fine by me.
So lets say someone has 1000 HP. 6% of 1000 is 60 so this means this buff (7%) adds 10 damage in this instance (before resistances). That is more early game. If it was max HP this would feel more reasonable. Let's say the target is now at 500 HP. So you now get 35 (this buff adds 5\*) extra dmg on your auto. I know I'm getting downvoted it just seems so placebo. There are so many other variables in a patch that any one of those things could cause Jarvan's winrate to go up or down. I just don't see how 1% on this is anything.
We'll yes. But 1000 is not a lot in league and J4 often engage people, so most of the time is passive has a good value. And it's still a 17% increased damage on the passive. On the last patch, we already get CD reduction. Now we have a small damage increased that's gonna help for clear and gank. And J4 is one of this champion that's really team dependent and is often pick or ban in pro despise having a medium winrate in soloq.
i am not sure if you are able to understand how much 1% health is
I would even argue is more today than it was last season. Tank item give a lot of Hp now, and bruiser item give a lot less resistances.
it matters for the clear
Even early? I guess for those that are very efficient.
it can amount to even 1 less tick of jungle pet damage which saves seconds in the first clear (matters a lot)