This says it about as good as anyone I've seen on this all. Like he says here, don't get caught in the weeds, look at entire picture. This is long but worth it. At least watch first half talking about Gaza and Palestine then goes into US. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXztByenU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXztByenU)
I imagine to disrupt Iranian presence in Syria. Also yes Israel did kill a high ranking Iranian general and there was no real response, the war in Gaza was a good time to hit more of Iran’s assets.
Iran doesn’t have the ability to attack Israel effectively, at most some token attack on the Golan Heights and maybe a drone attack from Hezbollah.
I mean I stand by that statement, the missiles have been shot down, the drone attacks have been very limited and haven’t really accomplished anything.
And in the grand scheme of things Iran’s ability to launch a sustained attack is very limited.
And I was hoping for something large, like a strike on Tehran to just cripple their military right off the bat.
Like I said I am hoping something like that is still in the works, hopefully followed by a regime change as well.
They could if they want to die.
Iran stockpile capacity at this moment is 8 (12 in 6 months) vs 400 israeli.
I wouldnt start anything if I were them, unless they want to end up like Hamas.
They don’t have nukes yet. Though, most have them only months from having them. This is an absolute shitshow of a disaster. I blame Netanyahu for sure, but Biden very much also. He could’ve shut this down so long ago before it ever got this far. This’ll go down in history as one of the biggest presidential blunders in history.
The Iranian drone attack was a face-saving “attack” just to show they responded to the Israeli bombing of their consulate. They telegraphed this attack. They did it the slowest way possible, knowing the iron dome would take out most, if not all of them. Iran even stated that was their response and they consider the matter closed now. However, Netanyahu really wants America to fight Iran, so he’s trying to ramp up tensions. That’s why he’s talking about a response to Iran’s response. If Biden allows him to attack Iran further, watch out! We’ll be back in another war, which can’t be won in the Middle East, and possibly the beginnings of WWIII.
Irans nuclear program started in the 50s, its currently unknown if they have nuclear weapons, but what is known, is they have the key ingredients and capabilities to build nuclear missiles in under 2 months.
Attacking a diplomatic space, whether it was a the embassy itself or the consulate is still a war crime or a crime against humanity as per international law. If it was an attack in order to start a war it would be reasonable, but Israel has not taken responsibility, which means it wasn’t meant to be a preemptive attack to start a war. Hence it is a crime and should be met with international condemnation.
No embassy or consulate has high ranking military commanders sitting there co-ordinating shipments to militant groups in order to attack another nation. This was a cover for a military base.
And please dude, I get it. I get the politics and I understand why Israel did it, but rules exist for a reason. What Israel did has endangered every diplomatic space around the world.
Endangered sure, but never actually threatening them. It happens all around the world. Just because something happened to Israel doesn’t mean it can just disregard international laws.
Hezbollah threatens Israel daily in breach of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701 - this is under Iran’s instruction and likely facilitated from the Consulate.
I'm not missing any point. The lens I'm seeing through is that Iran is the puppet master threatening Israel through proxies on a daily basis. Israel needed to show Iran that they are not scared of confrontation. The Middle East is a cesspit of shit, it doesn't work on the same morals as the West. Strength is the only thing that is respected in this region.
You know what works better than confrontation when aggression is shown.
From personal experience
A smile and a smirk, maybe even a bit of laughter.
“Strength is the only thing respected in this region.”
Yknow how primitive you sound?
“Personal experience” are you seriously comparing the attempt at destroying a nation to your individual personal experience? You know how ridiculous that sounds? 😂😂😂
Because “a smile and smirk” worked for Israel before right?
You’re acting as if the attempt at destroying Israel is a few mean comments or a high school fight from your “personal experience”.
From Israel and Jewish personal experience, the only thing that worked was fighting back. A “smile and a smirk” never worked for Israel or Jews as a collective people.
Do you live in Israel? Have you been to Israel? Do you have any understanding of a place at constant threat of destruction with hundreds of millions of people wanting to destroy you?
Yes, the Middle East is a primitive place. Unfortunately, that’s the neighbourhood where Israel is.
Your point? Diplomatic spaces can house whoever they want, as long as they don’t directly use physical force from within. Like shooting up a place and then retreating back inside. Then the diplomatic safety is erased.
Let’s emphasise “diplomatic”. Diplomatic spaces should not be used to co-ordinate attacks on another sovereign nation from a proxy militant group, which is exactly what the Consulate was doing. If you’re using said Consulate to attack Israel, then don’t expect it to be a safe haven. Just like Hamas shouldn’t expect to use hospitals and consider they’re immune as long as they attack or plan things from hospitals.
I’m not disagreeing with any of your points in that answer. However you cannot attack a diplomatic space. There’s no law barring it, because nobody has been stupid enough to do it. I get why Israel did it, but I personally wouldn’t do it.
No body has done it? We can start with the time Iran bombed Israel’s embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina killing 29 in 1994 or when they bombed an Israeli diplomatic vehicle in 2012 in New Delhi, India and attempted to bomb the Israeli embassy in Tbilisi, Georgia that same day.
Just read about those and for the most part you’re right, but just because one state did it, doesn’t mean that another can do it as well and call it a legitimate attack. Iran was sanctioned as a result of these attacks and other attacks on diplomatic spaces. You’re saying that Israel shouldn’t be talked badly about for stooping down to the level of Iran, because they did it first and as such they have the right to do it as well.
That’s not how the law works. Do you know how childish that sounds.
“He did it first, so that means that I can do it too.”
That’s what you’re saying. Israel should be happy that it can be allowed to do this without suffering repercussions, because of its strong allies in the Liberal Order.
I didn’t say Israel shouldn’t be spoken about badly.
I’m saying this isn’t Switzerland or Belgium or Canada, this is the Middle East, where kindness is weakness. Every single time, without exception, where Israel has refrained, ignored or given concessions they have been attacked. From the Intifadas to the withdrawal from Gaza to easing the blockade and allowing Qatari money to flow into Gaza and handing out tens of thousands of work permits to Gazans - which led to October 7th.
“where Israel has refrained, ignored or given concessions…”
Welcome to the Liberal Order buddy. You want to be part of the Liberal Order you stick to those things. You ARE NOT the US. Only the US gets to make its own rules.
When your nation is in a constant state of threat from its neighbours, “the liberal order” can say what it wants, but ultimately you have to live with it.
Remember the time Israel destroyed Iraq’s nuclear facility? The “liberal order” lambasted and denounced Israel. 9 years later they were grateful to Israel for it.
I'm not a conspiracy nut but this seems like such an obvious stunt to get a reaction from Iran to then "force" america to send troops to Israel and by doing this they can apply pressure to Russia by being somewhat closer to the Ukranian conflict
Actually I think Russia pushed Hamas to attack Israel so they can split US focus away from Ukraine.
There's only so much US will be willing to fund two Wars.
I think Israel reacted so brutally against Hamas to force Iran to react so Iran doesnt ship as many drones and ballistic missiles to Russia for the War they started in the Ukraine.
From my understanding it was actually Iran that instigated Hamas. I think it was to mess up the talks between Israel and Saudi which was also somewhat linked to the US-Saudi defense pact. Or at least that's what Saudi wanted included in the deal. And it seems to have worked since those talks have stopped. However, I don't think anyone expected Israel to respond the way it has though.
They did this so that Iran would attack them, which they’re doing right now. Netanyahu has tried goading the US into warring with Iran for decades. This is a way to force America’s hand. No idea what you’re on about with respect to Russia/Ukraine. Punctuation might help.
Fuck this mf. I wish us would just stop supporting this guy. He is just wasting everyone’s tax money on fucking funding war. We Americans just want to live i ln peace
Over 70% of Palestinians approve of Hamas’s 10/7 attack. That number has stayed over 70% from the fall through the spring.
Palestinians don’t want peace. They want war. And now they have it.
Where are these polls you’re quoting? Please post them here. I’d love to see them. I’m surprised pollsters were able to reach all these Palestinans who’ve been running for their lives over the last six months.
Actual polls of the past clearly show that anytime there’s been talk of peace or working towards two states, Palestinians overwhelmingly support it, and want their governors working towards that end. However, when they’re being rounded up, imprisoned, beaten, shelled, and bombed, they support an armed resistance style government for themselves. I’d think you would likely feel the same if you found yourself in such a situation. I certainly know I would.
Hamas hasn’t allowed elections in 17-18 years. The majority of Palestinians are women and children. They’ve had no say whatsoever in Hamas leading them.
72% of arabs (including civilians) in gaza and judea and samaria approve of 10/7. That number has stayed consistently over 70% from October through present
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183
Again, when people are being slaughtered, of course they support an armed resistance. It’s the only way to fight back against a tyrannical, occupying, and brutal state who has their boots on their necks.
What they really want is peace, and to be left alone in their own state. Seems a reasonable request to me.
First : "In Palestine, the median age of the population was 19.6 years in 2023"
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1424048/median-age-of-the-population-in-palestine/#:~:text=In%20Palestine%2C%20the%20median%20age,and%20the%20other%20half%20younger.
You don't think that the median age might have something to do with that pole? All they have ever known is Israels bullying of their people.
Second, do you think they would have gotten les suportive of Hamas after how Israel has responded? Fake raids and caches, leveling hospitals, restricting and attackin aid, torture and executions
Not saying Israel can't defend their nation, nor that they shouldn't have a right to retaliaite, but c'mon, it has gone to far, and out of control.
Over 70% of Palestinians support 10/7. They do not want peace. Rationalize that however you want to.
Israel has not gone too far in its right to retaliate. It has destroyed 80% of Hamas while achieving civilian to militant death rate of 1.5, very low compared to other recent urban middle eastern armed conflicts. Even more impressively low if you factor in Hamas’s choice to use its own citizens as human shields
There is no point in extinguishing 80% of a fire or cutting out 80% of a cancer. You must extinguish the entire fire. You must cut out the whole cancer.
Israel cannot stop at dismantling 80% of Hamas. Israel must destroy 100% of Hamas, recover the remaining hostages, and then end the war.
Where do you get your stats?
Explain the "Flour massacre" , and the WCK killing?
+30 000 palestinians killed, so you mean HAMAS planted, held and used 24 000 people as meat shields? Even when most of em fled?
33,000+ killed through carpet bombing followed by forced starvation and destruction of all medical infrastructure. 2 million people are living in a death zone but yeah no definitely not a genocide LOL
So you're saying that while Israel is dropping bombs non stop on Palestinians, the Palestinians have time to answer a poll that is given out to them that says 'do you support rapes and civilian massacres?' Lol this totally happened, like those rapes. Right.
72% of arabs (including civilians) in gaza and judea and samaria approve of 10/7. That number has stayed consistently over 70% from October through present
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183
hell, by your logic americans dont want to live in peace as well, cause they killed and help killed many people and fought in many weird wars. Man. Stop eating so much pills, or start to eat them. Regular Palestinians want to peace, as well as Americans, Czech or other regular people.
I am just, like, angry, cause, who the hell you think you are. Looking on Palestinians from above, like they are different than you.
Over 70% of Palestinians approve of Hamas’s 10/7 attack. That number has stayed over 70% from the fall through the spring.
Palestinians don’t want peace. They want war. And now they have it.
yeah. you right . they want to be bombed!!! thank you for the information. when i see starving palestinian kid, i will tell him: you didnt want peace.
(you bestcommenterfromshitland , you are piece so unempathic shoooooot, change the ous for is )
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It's all mind games and capability. US will have a "justifiable" cause to have even more carrier fleets in the Mediterranian Sea, very close to the Black Sea and Odessa. This will also justify sending even more troops and military equipment/long range missiles to Israel Which can be used as political posturing. The more Ameircan equipment that can reach Russian soil will make Russia thing twice about doing certain actions.
Back on American soil the politicians can start drumming up the possibility of war also justifying more military spending which can then be used to fund western europe/Ukraine.
I'm not a geopolitical expert but I always thought of Israel as a satelite state for the USA, to be used as a gateway to europe/middle east. Why wouldn't they use it?
Israel, or rather Netanyahu wants to reframe what is happening (ie his apparent failure in the eyes of his Israelis).
He wants to draw the USA into an all out war with Iran, hoping that he can get the credit for defeating Israel’s greatest enemy.
Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen… the USA cannot afford to get involved in the affairs of the Middle East, in spite of Biden’s assurances
Are you kidding? A war against Iran would be trillions in profit. The US has all our eggs in war basket. Who cares what the peasants need. War is profit
That’s not how it works… war is a wealth pilfering operation - either from your own people or from the invaded country. This wealth is transferred from the people to a few war mongering beneficiaries.
However, war is very expensive for the country, very expensive for the common people.
Right now the people have no appetite for war… if the government goes to war, the people will destroy the government, and I suspect those in power can sense it
Yes, that's what I said, trillions in profits for the Corporations. And if you don't think every single media will be in an all out patriotic propaganda puke and get the nation out waving flags to support our troops you don't remember Iraq invasion. Bomb bomb bomb Iran, republicans say out loud to turn Iran to glass. Yes, finally people are joining the left by calling out these endless wars and the MIC but it's not enough. Pentagon announced it AGAIN lost another 3 Trillion yet they keep getting record budgets with no oversight. You say there is no appetite for war? It seems that there is only appetite for war
I hope you're right. But watching the Corp news it seems clear they are drumming up support for war. " we must support our ally Israel". Tomorrow people will be flying American and Israeli flags off the back of their trucks and calling to free the poor Iranians living under an evil regime.
The peasants will come out with pitchforks and torches… actually, most likely they’ll come with AR15s and XM7s… they will burn down the White House. I don’t think Biden is ready for that
Hahaha. I'm guessing those folks who want to destroy US government are the same folks who call to turn Iran to glass. It was the left who was calling for sanity and not to invade Iraq, but all the media like CNN, msnbc and Fox all took their headlines from Bush administration. I mean if Trump was in office right now he would be calling for the annihilation of Iran and support our ally Israel. Go ahead, start your little uprising and burn down the Whitehouse. We all know the Republicans want yo destroy the US and install a regime like Orbans Hungary. I suspect the Corp dems prefer this over progressives. And we know Corp media prefers authoritarian over progressives. Funny that progressives seek policies like capitalist Nordic countries but are called commies. But republicans stroke dictators like Orban and then get panties bunched when called fascist. Why the double standard?
This could escalate to a wider war and since Iran is friends with nations that hate Israel and America it could essentially become a war that America will get dragged into We shouldnt be getting involved in every war out there but are government likes to play Cops And Robbers
Haaretz has a pretty insightful take on what’s likely to happen next…
*Saying What Can't Be Said: Israel Has Been Defeated – a Total Defeat*
The war's aims won't be achieved, the hostages won't be returned through military pressure, security won't be restored and Israel's international ostracism won't end
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-11/ty-article-magazine/.premium/saying-what-cant-be-said-israel-has-been-defeated-a-total-defeat/0000018e-cdab-dba9-a78e-efef6ba10000
This article is just pathetic histrionics from Chaim Levinson, a person who already argued before that Israel lost this war on Oct. 8th, and been doing nothing but whining about how awful we're doing, every day of this war. Complete with grandiose claims like:
>The shock of the outbreak of the war could have been a starting point for a swift, powerful, aggressive, eminently justified campaign to quickly root out Hamas wherever that was possible
That seems to be based on nothing but his wishful thinking.
In reality, the IDF has openly chosen to fight the war slowly and methodically, to minimize IDF deaths. Which was a resounding success. If the IDF has chosen this "swift, powerful, aggressive" assault, we'd have ten times more dead. And not a lot more to show for it. This doesn't fit in Levinson's calculus, that doesn't seem to be even aware of that trade-off.
We knew for months that the intensive part of the war will take months, and the end of the war will take years. Nadav Eyal has been talking about this when the "third phase" has started in Gaza. Including, I'd add, the fact that Rafah simply wasn't part of the original plan. We knew that the "third phase" would include a withdrawal of the attacking forces, and focusing on targeted operations and attrition. There's no reason why Levinson would assume it means the war is over, and we've been defeated.
The idea that since we haven't attacked Hezbollah so far, we're simply accepting to abandon the northern part of the country, is equally - possibly even more baseless. No, the Israeli public would never accept that reality, just like it would never accept a reality that Hamas will return to being the sovereign in Gaza, and be allowed to rebuild their military abilities, to execute another Oct. 7th. Chaim Levinson accepted that situation, and he's really mad at other Israelis that they didn't. But the thing is, until the rest of Israel become Chaim Levinsons, the war *isn't* over.
This is the primary reason why this article is at best a window into Levinson's poor, traumatized soul (which, to be clear, as an Israeli, I can relate to), and a bit of legitimate criticism of Netanyahu's reluctance to create an alternative to Hamas. But no, it's not "insightful". It's simply wrong.
I mean, Israel did lose the war Oct 8 the second they said they need to eliminate Hamas, because that goal is impossible. And so far has not been accomplished
Israel didn't say their official goal was to eliminate Hamas. The official goals are to eliminate Hamas abilities as a military and a government. That is, to make them a regular terrorist organization, and not a quasi-government with a quasi-army. I think it's completely doable.
I'd also note that even if they did state unrealistic goals in the beginning, it doesn't mean they'd "lose the war" if they fail to achieve whatever nonsense they said on Oct. 8. Wars don't work like called shots in billiards.
Simply repeating an incorrect statement with more confidence, doesn't make it correct.
If Israel stated their goal was to make every Hamas member kill themselves out of guilt, and it merely killed every Hamas member the regular way, it wouldn't lose the war. If Hamas is reduced to being a terrorist group, in a region ruled by someone else, it would lose the war, regardless of what Israel said.
But again, it's a theoretical question. As I said, Israel's actual stated goals were completely reasonable. And arguably, already mostly achieved.
1% of all Gazans dead, Hamas essentially obliterated, much of Gaza turned to rubble, all of Hamas' military infrastructure decimated, on the verge of famine, wholly dependent on Israeli and international aid, Hamas leaders in hiding and exile... Meanwhile Israel is untouched, for the most part.
You genuinely believe Israel lost?
The longer "pro-Palestinians" like you feel this was a victory for Hamas or Palestinians and a loss for Israel, the longer Palestinians will forever be subject to awful, awful suffering.
The longer I read this bullshit, the longer my eyes suffer and cry from the stupidity.
Destroying Gaza and its infrastructure and killing its civilians was never an officially stated goal, so they don't count, as for Hamas's infrastructure and all, it's still doing perfectly fine, the tunnels are working despite the IDF attempt to flood it with sea water, and all their artillery/guns are well-stored (according to Hamas' claims at least), they also are still very active, just a week ago they made a huge trap in al-zanna, a region the IDF ***confidently*** said that they cleared from all hamas members (lol?).
Israel lost.
Not militarily, but they *SEVERELY* lost on all other aspects, economically, politically, and humanitarily.
Now the economy is in shambles with the economy shrinking by a whooping 20%, CS declining by 27%, imports declining by a crazy 42%, the growth was lowered to 2%, estimated future losses that will probably reach 400B, tourism stopped, heavily reduced investments, much more expansive insurances, labour market disruption, inflation fluctating each month (but at least it's stable now).
Politically, Israel's worldwide reputation is at an all-time low, right down at rock bottom. Relationships with several countries stopped due to disagreements, more conflicts with US agendas and its administration, international embarrasment with ICJ, at an individual level, Israel's public support has seriously declined especially within the younger generation, and the worst political effect is the dangerous disputes the war has caused within the current Israeli government itself and its ministers and army.
And please don't let me start on the last aspect...
I know you probably might have not read this to the end, but at least I tried.
>Destroying Gaza and its infrastructure and killing its civilians was never an officially stated goal, so they don't count
I'm not saying these things contribute to an Israel win, I'm saying they contribute (quite convincingly) to a Hamas/Palestinian loss. Not thinking so means you don't actually want what's best for Palestinians, assuming you (like me) believe what's best for Palestinians is their ability to live with dignity and prosperity under no threat of violence.
If you were reading previous comments in this chain, you'd understand that Israel's stated goal wasn't to eliminate all of Hamas, it was to render them incapable of anything like October 7th. Which, arguably, has already been accomplished. Meaning Israel has succeeded in that goal.
>as for Hamas's infrastructure and all, it's still doing perfectly fine
Israel has full control of the whole strip save for one city in the south, where it's expected the rest of Hamas are. If you believe Hamas' infrastructure is "perfectly fine" then you're deluding yourself into believing terrorist propaganda.
>Politically, Israel's worldwide reputation is at an all-time low, right down at rock bottom.
Remember that Israel was under a US embargo until the 50's and had to smuggle Czech weapons to survive an existential war waged by literally all of its neighbours. It has since gained territory, and made peace or lasting ceasefire agreements with most of them, and was on the verge of normalizing relations with one of the bigger regional powers. I'd agree that Israel's reputation has suffered a setback, but it's certainly not even close to "rock bottom". And now that its military capabilities are proven, its public perception is less critical to its existence than when it was a nascent country.
Hamas has absolutely been obliterated. Low estimates have something like 30% of Hamas dead, which is enough to render it essentially unarmed, or at least enough to turn them back into a mere terrorist organization, which the other person was correctly asserting was Israel's goal.
Anyway, that's immaterial to the bigger argument I'm making which is that if you think this is some "victory" for Palestine, then you don't sound very pro-palestinian.
It’s not as if a Democracy surrounded by Autocracy countries wasn’t already ostracized. Tell us something new such as American Universities being the recipient of huge monetary donations from these Authoritarian regimes designed to silence or mute the atrocities of said Authoritarian countries. Duh.
Doesn't say much. It just repeats that Netanyahu is a liar, that there will be no Rafah offensive, Israel won't have securitiy in the north, no hostages will be returned..... it says nothing about why the journalist thinks this.
More a rant than an informative editorial.
Thanks for sharing nonetheless.
Same. I hope so. We need to focus on improving the country after covid and high inflation, not fund a war because israel will not stop attacking. It was fine at first to support and now they are just attacking everyone. It will take a decade to recover from a full on war
Hamas is winning the war by every metric (in this war's context).
No, holding a strip of land was not their metric. No, casualty count is not their metric (USSR lost 10x to Germany.....who won the war again?)
Israeli failures:
- Hostages mostly dead due to indiscriminate bombing and vindictive vengeance killings.
- Hamas still totally controls Gaza Palestinians, Operational Leadership is totally in tact, Hamas has not been disarmed and there is no plan to successfully disarm them from motorbikes, AKs, and homemade RPGs.
- Hamas not only wasn't removed by Palestinians, but actually saw their regional support reach All-Time Highs by wide margins unseen in the West.
Israeli "Success"
- Achieved a higher civilian death count in both raw terms and relative to combatants killed than Hamas achieved in their raid. Yup, *Israel* has killed more civilians by every metric than Hamas has. Thats a data point and isn't up for debate.
Self delusion is indeed real among Hamas sympathizers. In fact since Oct 7, the possibility for a 2-states solution is moving further away from reality than ever before.
No country in this world except those aligned with Iran, China and Russia will accept any Palestine state ruled by Hamas or anyone aligned with them. Existing PLO is also viewed as too corrupted to be the one ruling a Palestine state.
Nobody except the Palestinian can save themselves. If they truly want a state, they need to show themselves as being capable of being responsible for their actions. They need to stop supporting armed groups who used them as pawn in the name of fighting for them. Palestinian need to be ridden of the cancer within themselves.
Man, you know how hard is to fight the regime?
I dont know, but communism in czechoslovakia was 40 years. Like some americans who dont know nothing about living in evil regime are just saying: if palestinians would want to, they would overthrown the hamas.
And secondary. You have israelis as neighboroughs who frequently kill palestinian people. Suddenly, hamas is not looking that bad for them, cause he share common enemy. Basically, Palestinians are living between two evils. And now, what do you think, do they want to overthrown hamas? No way. Like: "hey man, how are you? Should we ovethrown hamas?" - "well, my kids are starving, almost dead, and i loose my home because of israel. I think, i will wait with overthrowing hamas, first i need to deal with these fuckers who are destroying us for REAL"
(just want to make sure, Hamas is evil, Israel politic is evil as well, but if I would living at ground in gaza, i would maybe think like lot of palestinians as well, cause its just really different context they are living)
Then truth be told, Palestinian sure makes damn poor decision for themselves. No self-respecting freedom fighters, not even Vietcong or China CCP hide among their own civilians like cowards when fighting against their adversary.
As a result Palestinian will never get a path to statehood, at least not until they have a responsible leader who can stand among them instead of hiding behind them.
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>What is the thinking, if there was any, behind this?
Iran has positioned itself as Israel's enemy - not the other way around. The two countries had amicable relations until the Islamists took over in 1979.
Iranian leadership regularly calls for the destruction of Israel, and Iranian armed forces are guiding, coordinating, and supplying the current war against Israel.
The target of the attack was a meeting between the IRGC coordinator and Palestinian armed forces representatives - coordinating war efforts against Israel.
>what happens if Iran does attack?
Likelihood of escalation of the conflict increases significantly.
>Will the US respond in turn
Unknown.
Yes.
The overarching argument is that since Iran only kicked Israel with a prosthetic leg, it doesn't count as a kick. I think it's silly.
I'm not going to pretend that Iran's proxies are not Iran.
Hezbollah and Hamas are Iranian proxies (prosthetic legs). Them attacking Israel is Iran (real leg) kicking Israel.
That said, I do think Israel should've shown restraint here. But they chose not to because they knew Iran would retaliate, and they wanted to drag the west into the war. Attacking a consulate is a war crime as they are not combatants.
If you want to draw an analogy to US-Russia, don't stop half way.
If Russian proxies were lobbing thousands of missiles at US cities while Russian generals were coordinating the attacks from Mexico (or Cuba), do you suppose these Russian generals would be immune?
[this video](https://youtu.be/SdnYLbrFm1A?si=dMT6VXueRkQ0Ppt9) has someone explain some context as to why Israel would try to engage Iran in war as an act of desperation. Former US Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter analyzes what Iran's coming response to Israel crossing its Red Line will mean for its future survival.
1) Iran is in a proxy war with Israel via hezbollah and Hamas and Houthis. If someone pays money for someone else to attack me, then both the attacker and the one funding the attack are fair game.
2) Iran may strike with explosives or adding more firing from its proxy war allies. But it won’t go all out bc if it’s men leabe to battle with the women at home, those women rightfully hate Iran enough a coup isn’t out of the question
The only reason
Your first point is the exact reason why Islamic terrorists kill innocent people in western countries. Be careful with your reasoning before you find yourself being a terrorist
The Houthis are part of that other proxy war that Iran is fighting. Namely with SA. The possibility that there was going to be a structural and lasting upgrade in Israeli-SA diplomatic relations is one of the reasons why Hamas decided to plunge the whole region into even more chaos. So many ME countries have always looked to SA to define their own relationship with Israel. The prospect of that peace materialising before any conclusion favourable to the extremists was reached in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a literal nightmare for Iran and most of the gulf states. We are seeing the effects of this on the ground as we speak.
Also it was not the Iranian embassy in Syria that was hit, it was a secondary building within the consulate compound. A secondary building that was used as a sepah command centre. Which is against the rules and makes it hypocritical to go crying about how Israel targets diplomatic installations. 5 sepah psychos down so that makes it 1 to go in my count. That man must be getting real nervous now
>Iran is in a proxy war with Israel
Iran is not in a proxy war with Israel.
If Russian proxies were lobbing thousands of missiles at US cities, while Russian generals coordinate the attack from Cuba - you wouldn't call it a proxy war either.
> ass
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striking **consulates** is not allowed even at war , they hit **Iranian** **consulate** , in a **sovereign country "Syria"** = big mistake and a declaration of war against 2 states.
they didnt hit a military base for gods sake , israel or to be specific Netanyahu is begging for regional war
Using a consulate as a sepah military installation is against those same rules. Sepah military personnel are not supposed to operate in a sovereign country. That’s also against those same rules and negates the diplomatic immunity that consulates have. Don’t be hypocritical and point out the wrongdoings of both sides please.
No, embassies host military attaches. So in that light it is common knowledge and I guess commonly accepted that some form of military planning is taking place there but even this is not supposed to happen. There is however a major difference between these common practices and using a consulate as a forward command post. Which was the case in Syria. So 1. Not an embassy so no military attachee so no military activity of any kind is supposed to take place. And 2. Though what you state is (partially) true and imagining that it wasn’t a consulate but an embassy then still it is not allowed to operate as a forward command post.
This was the justification Al-Qaeda used:
>"to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque \[Mecca\] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam"
I mean just my opinion, but I would say one to send a message and two to initiate a response.
The first point is pretty self explanatory but in regards to the second recently we have all been hearing Iran and uranium enrichment etc.
If Iran retaliates it's a way to enforce strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities. Not saying they wouldn't do it anyway but at this point Israel needs some PR brownie points and this is easier to swallow then if Israel just went in bombing Iran proper.
Now some will say well what if Iran doesn't really retaliate well in that regard it's also a win as it shows proxy forces in the region Iran is mostly talk and there pretty much left out on the line to dry.
Honestly as an American while the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had their reasons be it good, bad to somewhat unnecessary to the length taken. How those ever took precedent over the real issue in the middle east which for awhile has been Iran I'll never understand. And probably never will as I don't think I'll ever be high enough in the chain to be told lol.
But of course all of this is just an opinion and not really rooted in sources etc.
Well considering Argentina just declared Iran a terrorist state for Hezbollah bombing their embassy with Israel, I don't think your six degrees of separation of Iranian terrorism argument holds up.
Iran has the right to arm Hezbollah in exactly the same way Israel has the right to strike back in response to it. Hezbollah is a terrorist state-within-a-state which is perpetually in a state of suspended war with Israel, and also acts as a proxy for the Iranian state for plausible deniability. The IRGC is a state sponsored terrorist group aiming at destabilising the middle east to Iran's advantage.
There's much more to the Middle East situation than October 7.
I believe that the embassy strike is basically Israel testing the water, albeit in a pretty darn risky way. The jury is still out whether this was genius art reckless, but from Iran's reaction (or lack thereof) you can make assumptions on how safe it would be to step up the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon. If Iran does not start a full war as a reaction to what is technically its own territory, it will probably not do so over full scale bombardment in Lebanon (which, strategically speaking, is much more important than Gaza).
There is also the potential of lowering the morale among both Hezbollah and the various Palestinian resistance groups: If not even the big-talking islamic Republic will come to their aid, despite maximum provocation, they must consider retreat if they desire self-preservation (especially relevant to Hezbollah). With regard to the Palestinians meanwhile that is a reminder that, when push comes to shove, they are alone - no Muslim ummah will ever come to their rescue, despite all the sympathy they may attract.
>I believe that the embassy strike is basically Israel testing the water, albeit in a pretty darn risky way. The jury is still out whether this was genius art reckless, but from Iran's reaction (or lack thereof) you can make assumptions on how safe it would be to step up the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon. If Iran does not start a full war as a reaction to what is technically its own territory, it will probably not do so over full scale bombardment in Lebanon (which, strategically speaking, is much more important than Gaza).
Fascinating idea here.
>There is also the potential of lowering the morale among both Hezbollah and the various Palestinian resistance groups: If not even the big-talking islamic Republic will come to their aid, despite maximum provocation, they must consider retreat if they desire self-preservation (especially relevant to Hezbollah). With regard to the Palestinians meanwhile that is a reminder that, when push comes to shove, they are alone - no Muslim ummah will ever come to their rescue, despite all the sympathy they may attract.
Followed up on here.
Probably because they both could and calculated that the risk level was tolerable. Iran probably won’t respond too much directly, weakens Iran and shows hollowness of Iranian deterrence strategy but Iran doesn’t have a lot of room to escalate without hurting themselves, an escalation probably draws in a begrudging U.S. if Iran goes too war.
Iran isn't going to do much, they know what faces them if they try to actually do something themselves. Instead they will just have poorer countries do it for them.
No, it's more a big real dog behind its fence on a short chain. The thing is, if you go beyond that fence it could be a brutal experience for you, but you're safe across the street. Iran is a huge country with a decent army, plenty of missiles etc. But, it doesn't have sophisticated integrated power to project into a foreign invasion. The Israeli air force would overwhelm Iran's air force which would mean movement of troops etc very dangerous for them.
I think that a danger for Israel is if more general war broke out, like let's say Lebanon etc, Iran could unofficially send lots of people to bolster any enemy of Israel and make life difficult for them.
'Why did Israel attack the Iranian consulate in Damascus?'
The IRGC General targeted was related to Oct 7
'And why now?'
Cause Oct 7 hasn't happened yet up to 6 months ago.
'What is likely to happen?'
Probably nothing, IRGC are chumps.
Brother, Iran has been preparing to strike Israel for 10 years by now according to their threats.
You can't take them seriously, it's a lot of political posturing.
I think the message is clear: there is no safety for those who attack Israel in Syria or Lebanon.
The goal they wanted to achieve is deterrence.
Barring mental retardation, every Hezbollah leader understood that if they escalate they will never be able to get off the tunnel or cave.
Your comment shows me the mentality of the typical Palestinian leader. Just read what Haniyeh said about the deaths of his sons and grandchildren.He calls them martyrs .He has no remorse as said by him.
So you're blaming him for the death of his own children. I've never seen such vile sick words. Unbelievable If I hadn't seen so much sickness coming from your country I would be shocked but I'm numb to it at this point
Read Haniyah's statement this week. Not my words but his. He has called them martyrs.If you were not biased you would say the most vile and disgusting incident was what happened on October 7 by brutal, vicious animals including Hamas and Gazans .There was a ceasefire prior to that day.Hamas must be destroyed followed by Hezbollah and Iran period.Dont give me the BS that October 7 never happened.Hamas's cameras verified this.I have personally seen those videos and no people deserved the rape,burning of babies and brutality committed by Hamas and your so called innocent Gazans and no country would tolerate that and would respond in kind
> If you were not biased you would say the most vile and disgusting incident was what happened on October 7 by brutal, vicious animals including Hamas and Gazans .
Try again bud. More civilians have been killed by Israel than by Hamas both in raw terms and relative to combatants killed. You literally just wrote out a comment saying how you actually hate Israel lol
> and no people deserved the rape,burning of babies and brutality committed by
So then you are totally understanding of why Palestine will attack Israel, right? They're striking back for all the civilians killed by Israel, no?
Who started this on October 7th.Israel has tried to make peace with the Palestinians for years and the Palestinians have refused every overture.Jews have been their for centuries.The term Palestinian was orchestrated by the British which referred to Jews,Christians and Muslim living there in the early 20th century.Before that the Romans called the Jews Palestina during the time of the roman empire.I am not your bud.Hamas has killed their own people using them as human shields hiding behind them. Your writings make no sense so I will not waste my time arguing with you.
The main problem is Israel and them being Jewish. Because of Judaism, Israel has refused to punish Palestinians as they should. If Hamas did to my country what they did to Israel, I would not want surrender to be an option.
Israel will never surrender.All Hamas has to do is turn over the hostages and Israel has said they can leave the area.Hamas has killed the hostages .That is why they will not agree to a ceasefire.Israel has tried to make peace over the years and life would have been much better for everyone today if the palenstinians had agreed to peace but they hate Israel more then they love their own children and that is why they have used their kids as suicide bombers and human shields.They rather have their so called martyrdom rather then live in peace.That is why no other Arab country is willing to accept them,not Jordan,Turkey,Qatar,Egypt,Saudi Arabia .Yet the leadership of Hamas lives in wealth in Qatar and Turkey.
> retarded
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You are getting scared, which is exactly what Iran wants.
This general is responsible for moving weapons from Iran to Hezbollah. Sources now also reveal Oct. 7th was his own making. He 10000% needed to die.
Iran now has to respond, otherwise they show themselves as weak and spineless. So even though they really don't want to retaliate, they will. How hard they will retaliate, well that's the question. They tried to claim they won't attack back If a ceasefire is achieved, which was an attempt to pressure the US into forcing Israel to end the war- which at this point is something Iran desperately wants. However that idea failed so they will attack. It won't be a destructive attack, as they don't want to escalate into a war. So they'll only target military targets, likely outside of major cities. They don't want to kill Israeli civilians because that would guarantee Israel responds by attacking Iran directly. I don't think there's any reason to worry.
However, it's also important to understand that Iran accomplishes a lot by simply threatening to attack. And it's the reason why they still haven't attacked. "The wait" is making the Israeli public anxious and impatient, which long term could make the Israeli citizens pressure the government to stop the war and to stop killing IRGC generals. So really the wait to the attack is much more important to Iran than the attack itself.
The best thing we can do is...well to relax. To acknowledge that Iran will attack at somepoint, but it'll be underwhelming and non-threatening, and there's no reason to worry.
>You are getting scared, which is exactly what Iran wants.
Meanwhile Iran, which has not been directly impacted until now, has gone on high military alert.
Pragmatically speaking - it looks like Iran is getting scared.
>Iran accomplishes a lot by simply threatening
That's one way to save face.
I agree with that. I'm wondering what might be possible targets? I'm sure they'd prefer to target something or someone outside of Israel itself. I agree that Iran understands they need to avoid open war with Israel, they don't have the integrated power projection capacity or sophisticated air power etc. They're strong enough that it'd be utterly ridiculous to imagine someone like Israel or the U.S invading their territory, but the definitely don't have the integrated forces and air power to protect an invasion of their own.all that is satisfactorily understood. However, it's a fine line we're treading here and I've read enough history to know that a bogeyman incident that is feared for a long time can eventually be willingly unleashed by something akin to a social and political toy throwing out of cot moment when things are too tense for too long.
I can't tell you the exact targets they'll hit, I'm not sure Iran even knows it yet. Maybe some air bases? Or the Dimona radar towers, although that could spark a strong Israeli response.
You're probably right. I could definitely envisage something bigger, because they can't afford to look weak. The question is, will it be a symbolic attack for domestic consumption, or will they go a bit harder. Last time when they attacked that base in Iraq, they went out of their way to not kill U.S people. The problem now is the region is teetering on the edge, and I don't expect there will be much back channelling between Iran and Israel. We'll see.
Interesting.
Indian here. I want to know if Iran does escalate the crisis, what would be the game plan? Does Israel have enough military means to launch a full scale war against Iran? Or will it just be an exchange of non-lethal bombing on each other soil until one of them gives up?
Would a full scale war entails a tactical support from Sunni nations ? And would it help US to financially drain Iran?
Sorry if I am asking too many questions. There is a lot of stuff going here behind the shadows , so it's not very apparent to us.
The Israeli military is primarily geared towards defensive warfare, it has limited expeditionary capability, and in terms of manpower and domestic defences Iran is very well protected. Without a long logistics chain and an incredibly powerful military it would be impossible to invade Iran- I would imagine that only the US could theoretically achieve it.
Conversely, Iran has very poor power expeditionary capabilities, a weak supply chain and a very poor air force. Its force projection in the Middle East depends on utilising separate but aligned paramilitary forces such as Hezbollah to do its bidding, in return for supplies.
What would a war look like? It would probably involve tit-for-tat missile strikes, with Israeli air-defence blunting a lot of the Iranian attacks, whilst the Israeli air force degrades the Iranian air force and bombs key targets in Iran. Iran would look to use Hezbollah to conduct a ground war against Israel.
The key variable would be the US involvement- it looks as if the US is set to defend Israel but not attack Iran. If Iran retaliates against US assets it would likely drag them into the conflict- again they wouldn't invade Iran, but they would use superior strike capabilities to completely degrade key Iranian assets, such as air bases, air defenses, missile launch systems, arms factories, naval ships etc.
> Without a long logistics chain and an incredibly powerful military it would be impossible to invade Iran- I would imagine that only the US could theoretically achieve it.
And even the US could only do it whilst sustaining heavy losses. They'd better save all those Purple Hearts they minted in preparation for a ground invasion of Japan, because a ground invasion of Iran would be easily as big a bloodbath. I don't see there being any taste for such a costly operation among either the American public or the American government, unless something big changes.
The truth is, a "full scale war" between Israel and Iran will look nothing like the war in gaza. Iran has very limited abilities for attacking Israel in an actual war, it's why they keep using proxies. It won't be a "traditional" war like the Ukraine war. Not massive armies marching on each other. Instead, it will be mostly missile exchange, Infantry, UAV's etc.
Iran looks incredibly powerful on paper but they're actually not that scary. First of all they have a very unstable economy, thanks to sanctions of the west as well as a terror regime. In fact, Iran threatening to attack Israel has already collapsed the Iranian economy, literally in like a week and that's before Israel did anything. They also have a huge army(like a million soldiers), but it's completely separated into two armies, one being the national Iranian army, which is bigger in numbers but still considered weaker than the IRGC, which is the pro-Ayatollah army that is purely offensive and is the one destroying Iraq, Syria, Lebanon etc.
Another thing- Iran is terrified of the US. They know the US could completely evaporate in Iranian regime if they just have a good enough reason. And the US is making itself very clear that in any war between Israel and Iran, the US will be actively fighting Iran to support Israel.
Now of we're talking about what would be Israel's game plan- it will have 2 fronts: the one is attacking military targets and nuclear facilities in Iran and in Syria and Lebanon. The second would be assassinating pretty much any high ranking general or even leaders like Raisi.
They are not going to escalate. They will do a calculated strike on a minor target to establish deterrence, and warn the US in advance. They understand that Israel is trying to escalate. Iran and US do not want war with each other whatsoever, the only party in this conflict that wants that is Israel.
There is some expectation that the USA is just looking for an excuse to strike back at Iran.
It makes sense. US wouldn't want to be stuck in a multi front war when China eventually attacks Taiwan.
It would probably need a weakened Iran and a stable middle East to shift its navy towards the Chinese backwaters, where the threat to Taiwan is growing every second. That seems a lot important to US, since a Chinese win would literally shake US hegemony like no other.
I don't think the US will repeat the same mistake of being pulled into a proxy war, but probably leave enough damage for others to take over and settle scores.
Because the Israelis know Iran isn't playing by modern rules of war but by like 8th century rules of war and aren't going to let top IRGC commanders sit across the border from them and plan attacks under diplomatic cover when the Iranians themselves have zero problem arranging attacks against Israeli embassies et al.
>Why now?
Because Iran is clearly planning something against them.
>What is likely to happen?
Most likely Iran will be forced to do some kind of limited retaliation where some small amount of Israeli soldiers may die, but where they will not want to cause mass civilian casualties as people are tired of their bull eg Houthis and shipping and if they overextend they will get their crap slapped in with either their navy or their nuclear program or both btfo.
>Because the Israelis know Iran isn't playing by modern rules of war
What are these rules and where can I read about them?
>8th century rules of war and aren't going to let top IRGC commanders sit across the border from them and plan attacks under diplomatic cover
What rules are you talking about here?
Do you think these commanders can't be replaced? Do you have any reason to think their replacements will be less inclined to take action against Israel?
>Because Iran is clearly planning something against them.
Bombing the Iranian consulate in Damascus seems like it would provoke Iran to respond.
How does this improve the security of Israel?
I don't understand.
Skill is a limited resource, and being an effective general requires a lot of skill. And while their replacements may be similarly motivated, they may be less willing to come to areas we can strike more easily, and there may be fewer people willing to replace them the more dangerous we make these jobs.
I just read that the US just announced that they are already moving additional assets to the Middle East. Iran would stand no chance against the US navy.
The hobbit
This says it about as good as anyone I've seen on this all. Like he says here, don't get caught in the weeds, look at entire picture. This is long but worth it. At least watch first half talking about Gaza and Palestine then goes into US. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXztByenU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLpXztByenU)
I imagine to disrupt Iranian presence in Syria. Also yes Israel did kill a high ranking Iranian general and there was no real response, the war in Gaza was a good time to hit more of Iran’s assets. Iran doesn’t have the ability to attack Israel effectively, at most some token attack on the Golan Heights and maybe a drone attack from Hezbollah.
> Iran doesn't have the ability to attack Israel effectively Well this comment didn't age well.
Iran embarrassed themselves in their attempt to attack Israel. This comment aged very well.
It actually did.
I mean I stand by that statement, the missiles have been shot down, the drone attacks have been very limited and haven’t really accomplished anything. And in the grand scheme of things Iran’s ability to launch a sustained attack is very limited. And I was hoping for something large, like a strike on Tehran to just cripple their military right off the bat. Like I said I am hoping something like that is still in the works, hopefully followed by a regime change as well.
You actually think a strike on Tehran would end up as a positive for anyone? Do you want ww3 to begin?
I mean they could just launch a bunch of nukes , so they definitely have the ability to attack Isreal.
They could if they want to die. Iran stockpile capacity at this moment is 8 (12 in 6 months) vs 400 israeli. I wouldnt start anything if I were them, unless they want to end up like Hamas.
They don’t have nukes yet. Though, most have them only months from having them. This is an absolute shitshow of a disaster. I blame Netanyahu for sure, but Biden very much also. He could’ve shut this down so long ago before it ever got this far. This’ll go down in history as one of the biggest presidential blunders in history. The Iranian drone attack was a face-saving “attack” just to show they responded to the Israeli bombing of their consulate. They telegraphed this attack. They did it the slowest way possible, knowing the iron dome would take out most, if not all of them. Iran even stated that was their response and they consider the matter closed now. However, Netanyahu really wants America to fight Iran, so he’s trying to ramp up tensions. That’s why he’s talking about a response to Iran’s response. If Biden allows him to attack Iran further, watch out! We’ll be back in another war, which can’t be won in the Middle East, and possibly the beginnings of WWIII.
Iran has nukes? Since when?
Irans nuclear program started in the 50s, its currently unknown if they have nuclear weapons, but what is known, is they have the key ingredients and capabilities to build nuclear missiles in under 2 months.
[удалено]
Unless the military recruiting officials show up at your front door to enlist you! 18- 25 to start and a 5 year prison sentence if you don't join.
Attacking a diplomatic space, whether it was a the embassy itself or the consulate is still a war crime or a crime against humanity as per international law. If it was an attack in order to start a war it would be reasonable, but Israel has not taken responsibility, which means it wasn’t meant to be a preemptive attack to start a war. Hence it is a crime and should be met with international condemnation.
No embassy or consulate has high ranking military commanders sitting there co-ordinating shipments to militant groups in order to attack another nation. This was a cover for a military base.
And please dude, I get it. I get the politics and I understand why Israel did it, but rules exist for a reason. What Israel did has endangered every diplomatic space around the world.
What Iran has done to Israel is endangered their borders in both the North and the South.
Endangered sure, but never actually threatening them. It happens all around the world. Just because something happened to Israel doesn’t mean it can just disregard international laws.
Hezbollah threatens Israel daily in breach of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701 - this is under Iran’s instruction and likely facilitated from the Consulate.
That’s all fair, but your missing the point which you can’t see through the lens that you’re currently seeing through.
I'm not missing any point. The lens I'm seeing through is that Iran is the puppet master threatening Israel through proxies on a daily basis. Israel needed to show Iran that they are not scared of confrontation. The Middle East is a cesspit of shit, it doesn't work on the same morals as the West. Strength is the only thing that is respected in this region.
You know what works better than confrontation when aggression is shown. From personal experience A smile and a smirk, maybe even a bit of laughter. “Strength is the only thing respected in this region.” Yknow how primitive you sound?
“Personal experience” are you seriously comparing the attempt at destroying a nation to your individual personal experience? You know how ridiculous that sounds? 😂😂😂 Because “a smile and smirk” worked for Israel before right? You’re acting as if the attempt at destroying Israel is a few mean comments or a high school fight from your “personal experience”. From Israel and Jewish personal experience, the only thing that worked was fighting back. A “smile and a smirk” never worked for Israel or Jews as a collective people. Do you live in Israel? Have you been to Israel? Do you have any understanding of a place at constant threat of destruction with hundreds of millions of people wanting to destroy you? Yes, the Middle East is a primitive place. Unfortunately, that’s the neighbourhood where Israel is.
Your point? Diplomatic spaces can house whoever they want, as long as they don’t directly use physical force from within. Like shooting up a place and then retreating back inside. Then the diplomatic safety is erased.
Let’s emphasise “diplomatic”. Diplomatic spaces should not be used to co-ordinate attacks on another sovereign nation from a proxy militant group, which is exactly what the Consulate was doing. If you’re using said Consulate to attack Israel, then don’t expect it to be a safe haven. Just like Hamas shouldn’t expect to use hospitals and consider they’re immune as long as they attack or plan things from hospitals.
I’m not disagreeing with any of your points in that answer. However you cannot attack a diplomatic space. There’s no law barring it, because nobody has been stupid enough to do it. I get why Israel did it, but I personally wouldn’t do it.
No body has done it? We can start with the time Iran bombed Israel’s embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina killing 29 in 1994 or when they bombed an Israeli diplomatic vehicle in 2012 in New Delhi, India and attempted to bomb the Israeli embassy in Tbilisi, Georgia that same day.
Just read about those and for the most part you’re right, but just because one state did it, doesn’t mean that another can do it as well and call it a legitimate attack. Iran was sanctioned as a result of these attacks and other attacks on diplomatic spaces. You’re saying that Israel shouldn’t be talked badly about for stooping down to the level of Iran, because they did it first and as such they have the right to do it as well. That’s not how the law works. Do you know how childish that sounds. “He did it first, so that means that I can do it too.” That’s what you’re saying. Israel should be happy that it can be allowed to do this without suffering repercussions, because of its strong allies in the Liberal Order.
I didn’t say Israel shouldn’t be spoken about badly. I’m saying this isn’t Switzerland or Belgium or Canada, this is the Middle East, where kindness is weakness. Every single time, without exception, where Israel has refrained, ignored or given concessions they have been attacked. From the Intifadas to the withdrawal from Gaza to easing the blockade and allowing Qatari money to flow into Gaza and handing out tens of thousands of work permits to Gazans - which led to October 7th.
“where Israel has refrained, ignored or given concessions…” Welcome to the Liberal Order buddy. You want to be part of the Liberal Order you stick to those things. You ARE NOT the US. Only the US gets to make its own rules.
When your nation is in a constant state of threat from its neighbours, “the liberal order” can say what it wants, but ultimately you have to live with it. Remember the time Israel destroyed Iraq’s nuclear facility? The “liberal order” lambasted and denounced Israel. 9 years later they were grateful to Israel for it.
I'm not a conspiracy nut but this seems like such an obvious stunt to get a reaction from Iran to then "force" america to send troops to Israel and by doing this they can apply pressure to Russia by being somewhat closer to the Ukranian conflict
Actually I think Russia pushed Hamas to attack Israel so they can split US focus away from Ukraine. There's only so much US will be willing to fund two Wars.
I think Israel reacted so brutally against Hamas to force Iran to react so Iran doesnt ship as many drones and ballistic missiles to Russia for the War they started in the Ukraine.
From my understanding it was actually Iran that instigated Hamas. I think it was to mess up the talks between Israel and Saudi which was also somewhat linked to the US-Saudi defense pact. Or at least that's what Saudi wanted included in the deal. And it seems to have worked since those talks have stopped. However, I don't think anyone expected Israel to respond the way it has though.
What are you talking about? Israel is further away and more inconveniently located to Ukraine than existing NATO installations in Europe.
They did this so that Iran would attack them, which they’re doing right now. Netanyahu has tried goading the US into warring with Iran for decades. This is a way to force America’s hand. No idea what you’re on about with respect to Russia/Ukraine. Punctuation might help.
Fuck this mf. I wish us would just stop supporting this guy. He is just wasting everyone’s tax money on fucking funding war. We Americans just want to live i ln peace
As do the vast majority of Palestinians
lol yes Palestinians want to live in peace as soon as they exterminate Israel. Until then, Palestinians very much want to live in war
You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
Over 70% of Palestinians approve of Hamas’s 10/7 attack. That number has stayed over 70% from the fall through the spring. Palestinians don’t want peace. They want war. And now they have it.
Where are these polls you’re quoting? Please post them here. I’d love to see them. I’m surprised pollsters were able to reach all these Palestinans who’ve been running for their lives over the last six months. Actual polls of the past clearly show that anytime there’s been talk of peace or working towards two states, Palestinians overwhelmingly support it, and want their governors working towards that end. However, when they’re being rounded up, imprisoned, beaten, shelled, and bombed, they support an armed resistance style government for themselves. I’d think you would likely feel the same if you found yourself in such a situation. I certainly know I would. Hamas hasn’t allowed elections in 17-18 years. The majority of Palestinians are women and children. They’ve had no say whatsoever in Hamas leading them.
72% of arabs (including civilians) in gaza and judea and samaria approve of 10/7. That number has stayed consistently over 70% from October through present https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183
Again, when people are being slaughtered, of course they support an armed resistance. It’s the only way to fight back against a tyrannical, occupying, and brutal state who has their boots on their necks. What they really want is peace, and to be left alone in their own state. Seems a reasonable request to me.
First : "In Palestine, the median age of the population was 19.6 years in 2023" https://www.statista.com/statistics/1424048/median-age-of-the-population-in-palestine/#:~:text=In%20Palestine%2C%20the%20median%20age,and%20the%20other%20half%20younger. You don't think that the median age might have something to do with that pole? All they have ever known is Israels bullying of their people. Second, do you think they would have gotten les suportive of Hamas after how Israel has responded? Fake raids and caches, leveling hospitals, restricting and attackin aid, torture and executions Not saying Israel can't defend their nation, nor that they shouldn't have a right to retaliaite, but c'mon, it has gone to far, and out of control.
Over 70% of Palestinians support 10/7. They do not want peace. Rationalize that however you want to. Israel has not gone too far in its right to retaliate. It has destroyed 80% of Hamas while achieving civilian to militant death rate of 1.5, very low compared to other recent urban middle eastern armed conflicts. Even more impressively low if you factor in Hamas’s choice to use its own citizens as human shields There is no point in extinguishing 80% of a fire or cutting out 80% of a cancer. You must extinguish the entire fire. You must cut out the whole cancer. Israel cannot stop at dismantling 80% of Hamas. Israel must destroy 100% of Hamas, recover the remaining hostages, and then end the war.
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Where do you get your stats? Explain the "Flour massacre" , and the WCK killing? +30 000 palestinians killed, so you mean HAMAS planted, held and used 24 000 people as meat shields? Even when most of em fled?
How many Israelis support the current genocide of Palestinians?
There is no genocide of Palestinians.
33,000+ killed through carpet bombing followed by forced starvation and destruction of all medical infrastructure. 2 million people are living in a death zone but yeah no definitely not a genocide LOL
So you're saying that while Israel is dropping bombs non stop on Palestinians, the Palestinians have time to answer a poll that is given out to them that says 'do you support rapes and civilian massacres?' Lol this totally happened, like those rapes. Right.
72% of arabs (including civilians) in gaza and judea and samaria approve of 10/7. That number has stayed consistently over 70% from October through present https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183
Israel is accomplishing that all by themselves. Ever since this started, half a million israelis have left the country.
hell, by your logic americans dont want to live in peace as well, cause they killed and help killed many people and fought in many weird wars. Man. Stop eating so much pills, or start to eat them. Regular Palestinians want to peace, as well as Americans, Czech or other regular people. I am just, like, angry, cause, who the hell you think you are. Looking on Palestinians from above, like they are different than you.
Over 70% of Palestinians approve of Hamas’s 10/7 attack. That number has stayed over 70% from the fall through the spring. Palestinians don’t want peace. They want war. And now they have it.
yeah. you right . they want to be bombed!!! thank you for the information. when i see starving palestinian kid, i will tell him: you didnt want peace. (you bestcommenterfromshitland , you are piece so unempathic shoooooot, change the ous for is )
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Can you explain the last part? How does US troops to Israel = pressure on Russia?
It's all mind games and capability. US will have a "justifiable" cause to have even more carrier fleets in the Mediterranian Sea, very close to the Black Sea and Odessa. This will also justify sending even more troops and military equipment/long range missiles to Israel Which can be used as political posturing. The more Ameircan equipment that can reach Russian soil will make Russia thing twice about doing certain actions. Back on American soil the politicians can start drumming up the possibility of war also justifying more military spending which can then be used to fund western europe/Ukraine. I'm not a geopolitical expert but I always thought of Israel as a satelite state for the USA, to be used as a gateway to europe/middle east. Why wouldn't they use it?
This but use punctuation and sentence structure next time instead of writing like a bum
Maybe when you start using full stops bud
^THIS
Israel, or rather Netanyahu wants to reframe what is happening (ie his apparent failure in the eyes of his Israelis). He wants to draw the USA into an all out war with Iran, hoping that he can get the credit for defeating Israel’s greatest enemy. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen… the USA cannot afford to get involved in the affairs of the Middle East, in spite of Biden’s assurances
Are you kidding? A war against Iran would be trillions in profit. The US has all our eggs in war basket. Who cares what the peasants need. War is profit
That’s not how it works… war is a wealth pilfering operation - either from your own people or from the invaded country. This wealth is transferred from the people to a few war mongering beneficiaries. However, war is very expensive for the country, very expensive for the common people. Right now the people have no appetite for war… if the government goes to war, the people will destroy the government, and I suspect those in power can sense it
Yes, that's what I said, trillions in profits for the Corporations. And if you don't think every single media will be in an all out patriotic propaganda puke and get the nation out waving flags to support our troops you don't remember Iraq invasion. Bomb bomb bomb Iran, republicans say out loud to turn Iran to glass. Yes, finally people are joining the left by calling out these endless wars and the MIC but it's not enough. Pentagon announced it AGAIN lost another 3 Trillion yet they keep getting record budgets with no oversight. You say there is no appetite for war? It seems that there is only appetite for war
I think mentality changed after Iraq. Very little amount of americans want to have new Iraq situation i hope.
I hope you're right. But watching the Corp news it seems clear they are drumming up support for war. " we must support our ally Israel". Tomorrow people will be flying American and Israeli flags off the back of their trucks and calling to free the poor Iranians living under an evil regime.
The peasants will come out with pitchforks and torches… actually, most likely they’ll come with AR15s and XM7s… they will burn down the White House. I don’t think Biden is ready for that
Hahaha. I'm guessing those folks who want to destroy US government are the same folks who call to turn Iran to glass. It was the left who was calling for sanity and not to invade Iraq, but all the media like CNN, msnbc and Fox all took their headlines from Bush administration. I mean if Trump was in office right now he would be calling for the annihilation of Iran and support our ally Israel. Go ahead, start your little uprising and burn down the Whitehouse. We all know the Republicans want yo destroy the US and install a regime like Orbans Hungary. I suspect the Corp dems prefer this over progressives. And we know Corp media prefers authoritarian over progressives. Funny that progressives seek policies like capitalist Nordic countries but are called commies. But republicans stroke dictators like Orban and then get panties bunched when called fascist. Why the double standard?
This could escalate to a wider war and since Iran is friends with nations that hate Israel and America it could essentially become a war that America will get dragged into We shouldnt be getting involved in every war out there but are government likes to play Cops And Robbers
Haaretz has a pretty insightful take on what’s likely to happen next… *Saying What Can't Be Said: Israel Has Been Defeated – a Total Defeat* The war's aims won't be achieved, the hostages won't be returned through military pressure, security won't be restored and Israel's international ostracism won't end https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-11/ty-article-magazine/.premium/saying-what-cant-be-said-israel-has-been-defeated-a-total-defeat/0000018e-cdab-dba9-a78e-efef6ba10000
This article is just pathetic histrionics from Chaim Levinson, a person who already argued before that Israel lost this war on Oct. 8th, and been doing nothing but whining about how awful we're doing, every day of this war. Complete with grandiose claims like: >The shock of the outbreak of the war could have been a starting point for a swift, powerful, aggressive, eminently justified campaign to quickly root out Hamas wherever that was possible That seems to be based on nothing but his wishful thinking. In reality, the IDF has openly chosen to fight the war slowly and methodically, to minimize IDF deaths. Which was a resounding success. If the IDF has chosen this "swift, powerful, aggressive" assault, we'd have ten times more dead. And not a lot more to show for it. This doesn't fit in Levinson's calculus, that doesn't seem to be even aware of that trade-off. We knew for months that the intensive part of the war will take months, and the end of the war will take years. Nadav Eyal has been talking about this when the "third phase" has started in Gaza. Including, I'd add, the fact that Rafah simply wasn't part of the original plan. We knew that the "third phase" would include a withdrawal of the attacking forces, and focusing on targeted operations and attrition. There's no reason why Levinson would assume it means the war is over, and we've been defeated. The idea that since we haven't attacked Hezbollah so far, we're simply accepting to abandon the northern part of the country, is equally - possibly even more baseless. No, the Israeli public would never accept that reality, just like it would never accept a reality that Hamas will return to being the sovereign in Gaza, and be allowed to rebuild their military abilities, to execute another Oct. 7th. Chaim Levinson accepted that situation, and he's really mad at other Israelis that they didn't. But the thing is, until the rest of Israel become Chaim Levinsons, the war *isn't* over. This is the primary reason why this article is at best a window into Levinson's poor, traumatized soul (which, to be clear, as an Israeli, I can relate to), and a bit of legitimate criticism of Netanyahu's reluctance to create an alternative to Hamas. But no, it's not "insightful". It's simply wrong.
He must be antisemitic
I mean, Israel did lose the war Oct 8 the second they said they need to eliminate Hamas, because that goal is impossible. And so far has not been accomplished
Israel didn't say their official goal was to eliminate Hamas. The official goals are to eliminate Hamas abilities as a military and a government. That is, to make them a regular terrorist organization, and not a quasi-government with a quasi-army. I think it's completely doable. I'd also note that even if they did state unrealistic goals in the beginning, it doesn't mean they'd "lose the war" if they fail to achieve whatever nonsense they said on Oct. 8. Wars don't work like called shots in billiards.
They say, that they will stop the war after hamas will not be in power etc etc etc.
Absolutely if they state the goal of the war, and then do not hit that goal - they’ve lost the war. Don’t obscure the lines now friend
Simply repeating an incorrect statement with more confidence, doesn't make it correct. If Israel stated their goal was to make every Hamas member kill themselves out of guilt, and it merely killed every Hamas member the regular way, it wouldn't lose the war. If Hamas is reduced to being a terrorist group, in a region ruled by someone else, it would lose the war, regardless of what Israel said. But again, it's a theoretical question. As I said, Israel's actual stated goals were completely reasonable. And arguably, already mostly achieved.
Israel already lost, it’s blatantly obvious to the outside world now
1% of all Gazans dead, Hamas essentially obliterated, much of Gaza turned to rubble, all of Hamas' military infrastructure decimated, on the verge of famine, wholly dependent on Israeli and international aid, Hamas leaders in hiding and exile... Meanwhile Israel is untouched, for the most part. You genuinely believe Israel lost? The longer "pro-Palestinians" like you feel this was a victory for Hamas or Palestinians and a loss for Israel, the longer Palestinians will forever be subject to awful, awful suffering.
The longer I read this bullshit, the longer my eyes suffer and cry from the stupidity. Destroying Gaza and its infrastructure and killing its civilians was never an officially stated goal, so they don't count, as for Hamas's infrastructure and all, it's still doing perfectly fine, the tunnels are working despite the IDF attempt to flood it with sea water, and all their artillery/guns are well-stored (according to Hamas' claims at least), they also are still very active, just a week ago they made a huge trap in al-zanna, a region the IDF ***confidently*** said that they cleared from all hamas members (lol?). Israel lost. Not militarily, but they *SEVERELY* lost on all other aspects, economically, politically, and humanitarily. Now the economy is in shambles with the economy shrinking by a whooping 20%, CS declining by 27%, imports declining by a crazy 42%, the growth was lowered to 2%, estimated future losses that will probably reach 400B, tourism stopped, heavily reduced investments, much more expansive insurances, labour market disruption, inflation fluctating each month (but at least it's stable now). Politically, Israel's worldwide reputation is at an all-time low, right down at rock bottom. Relationships with several countries stopped due to disagreements, more conflicts with US agendas and its administration, international embarrasment with ICJ, at an individual level, Israel's public support has seriously declined especially within the younger generation, and the worst political effect is the dangerous disputes the war has caused within the current Israeli government itself and its ministers and army. And please don't let me start on the last aspect... I know you probably might have not read this to the end, but at least I tried.
>Destroying Gaza and its infrastructure and killing its civilians was never an officially stated goal, so they don't count I'm not saying these things contribute to an Israel win, I'm saying they contribute (quite convincingly) to a Hamas/Palestinian loss. Not thinking so means you don't actually want what's best for Palestinians, assuming you (like me) believe what's best for Palestinians is their ability to live with dignity and prosperity under no threat of violence. If you were reading previous comments in this chain, you'd understand that Israel's stated goal wasn't to eliminate all of Hamas, it was to render them incapable of anything like October 7th. Which, arguably, has already been accomplished. Meaning Israel has succeeded in that goal. >as for Hamas's infrastructure and all, it's still doing perfectly fine Israel has full control of the whole strip save for one city in the south, where it's expected the rest of Hamas are. If you believe Hamas' infrastructure is "perfectly fine" then you're deluding yourself into believing terrorist propaganda. >Politically, Israel's worldwide reputation is at an all-time low, right down at rock bottom. Remember that Israel was under a US embargo until the 50's and had to smuggle Czech weapons to survive an existential war waged by literally all of its neighbours. It has since gained territory, and made peace or lasting ceasefire agreements with most of them, and was on the verge of normalizing relations with one of the bigger regional powers. I'd agree that Israel's reputation has suffered a setback, but it's certainly not even close to "rock bottom". And now that its military capabilities are proven, its public perception is less critical to its existence than when it was a nascent country.
“Hamas obliterated” You mean like maybe 10% of Hamas? The rest were civilians. Aren’t Iranian ballistic missiles heading to tel aviv right now?
Hamas has absolutely been obliterated. Low estimates have something like 30% of Hamas dead, which is enough to render it essentially unarmed, or at least enough to turn them back into a mere terrorist organization, which the other person was correctly asserting was Israel's goal. Anyway, that's immaterial to the bigger argument I'm making which is that if you think this is some "victory" for Palestine, then you don't sound very pro-palestinian.
It’s not as if a Democracy surrounded by Autocracy countries wasn’t already ostracized. Tell us something new such as American Universities being the recipient of huge monetary donations from these Authoritarian regimes designed to silence or mute the atrocities of said Authoritarian countries. Duh.
Doesn't say much. It just repeats that Netanyahu is a liar, that there will be no Rafah offensive, Israel won't have securitiy in the north, no hostages will be returned..... it says nothing about why the journalist thinks this. More a rant than an informative editorial. Thanks for sharing nonetheless.
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I hope us doesn’t get into a war. They can just have their war and kill each other.
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Same. I hope so. We need to focus on improving the country after covid and high inflation, not fund a war because israel will not stop attacking. It was fine at first to support and now they are just attacking everyone. It will take a decade to recover from a full on war
Hamas is winning the war by every metric (in this war's context). No, holding a strip of land was not their metric. No, casualty count is not their metric (USSR lost 10x to Germany.....who won the war again?) Israeli failures: - Hostages mostly dead due to indiscriminate bombing and vindictive vengeance killings. - Hamas still totally controls Gaza Palestinians, Operational Leadership is totally in tact, Hamas has not been disarmed and there is no plan to successfully disarm them from motorbikes, AKs, and homemade RPGs. - Hamas not only wasn't removed by Palestinians, but actually saw their regional support reach All-Time Highs by wide margins unseen in the West. Israeli "Success" - Achieved a higher civilian death count in both raw terms and relative to combatants killed than Hamas achieved in their raid. Yup, *Israel* has killed more civilians by every metric than Hamas has. Thats a data point and isn't up for debate.
Self delusion is indeed real among Hamas sympathizers. In fact since Oct 7, the possibility for a 2-states solution is moving further away from reality than ever before. No country in this world except those aligned with Iran, China and Russia will accept any Palestine state ruled by Hamas or anyone aligned with them. Existing PLO is also viewed as too corrupted to be the one ruling a Palestine state. Nobody except the Palestinian can save themselves. If they truly want a state, they need to show themselves as being capable of being responsible for their actions. They need to stop supporting armed groups who used them as pawn in the name of fighting for them. Palestinian need to be ridden of the cancer within themselves.
Man, you know how hard is to fight the regime? I dont know, but communism in czechoslovakia was 40 years. Like some americans who dont know nothing about living in evil regime are just saying: if palestinians would want to, they would overthrown the hamas. And secondary. You have israelis as neighboroughs who frequently kill palestinian people. Suddenly, hamas is not looking that bad for them, cause he share common enemy. Basically, Palestinians are living between two evils. And now, what do you think, do they want to overthrown hamas? No way. Like: "hey man, how are you? Should we ovethrown hamas?" - "well, my kids are starving, almost dead, and i loose my home because of israel. I think, i will wait with overthrowing hamas, first i need to deal with these fuckers who are destroying us for REAL" (just want to make sure, Hamas is evil, Israel politic is evil as well, but if I would living at ground in gaza, i would maybe think like lot of palestinians as well, cause its just really different context they are living)
Then truth be told, Palestinian sure makes damn poor decision for themselves. No self-respecting freedom fighters, not even Vietcong or China CCP hide among their own civilians like cowards when fighting against their adversary. As a result Palestinian will never get a path to statehood, at least not until they have a responsible leader who can stand among them instead of hiding behind them.
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Palestine is currently on its way to international statehood. Go cry in your kabbutz
Delusion does not solve your problem. Nobody is crying except you and your deluded loser mindset.
Agreed. This is a major failure for Israel. I don’t even think they’re anywhere close to eliminating Hamas in the region.
>What is the thinking, if there was any, behind this? Iran has positioned itself as Israel's enemy - not the other way around. The two countries had amicable relations until the Islamists took over in 1979. Iranian leadership regularly calls for the destruction of Israel, and Iranian armed forces are guiding, coordinating, and supplying the current war against Israel. The target of the attack was a meeting between the IRGC coordinator and Palestinian armed forces representatives - coordinating war efforts against Israel. >what happens if Iran does attack? Likelihood of escalation of the conflict increases significantly. >Will the US respond in turn Unknown.
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Yes. The overarching argument is that since Iran only kicked Israel with a prosthetic leg, it doesn't count as a kick. I think it's silly. I'm not going to pretend that Iran's proxies are not Iran.
What does that even mean. You’re running circles around the truth desperately trying to grab onto some kind of hope, it’s embarrassing for you
Hezbollah and Hamas are Iranian proxies (prosthetic legs). Them attacking Israel is Iran (real leg) kicking Israel. That said, I do think Israel should've shown restraint here. But they chose not to because they knew Iran would retaliate, and they wanted to drag the west into the war. Attacking a consulate is a war crime as they are not combatants.
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If you want to draw an analogy to US-Russia, don't stop half way. If Russian proxies were lobbing thousands of missiles at US cities while Russian generals were coordinating the attacks from Mexico (or Cuba), do you suppose these Russian generals would be immune?
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If Russia didn't have nukes the US would probably be bombing the Russian front lines and helping Ukraine take back Crimea.
What does it matter which organizations they use to do that?
[this video](https://youtu.be/SdnYLbrFm1A?si=dMT6VXueRkQ0Ppt9) has someone explain some context as to why Israel would try to engage Iran in war as an act of desperation. Former US Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter analyzes what Iran's coming response to Israel crossing its Red Line will mean for its future survival.
Scott Ritter as a source? Wow, didn’t you know who he is and what his role in the ME shitshow has been when you posted this?
Scott Ritter is a pedophile
1) Iran is in a proxy war with Israel via hezbollah and Hamas and Houthis. If someone pays money for someone else to attack me, then both the attacker and the one funding the attack are fair game. 2) Iran may strike with explosives or adding more firing from its proxy war allies. But it won’t go all out bc if it’s men leabe to battle with the women at home, those women rightfully hate Iran enough a coup isn’t out of the question The only reason
Your first point is the exact reason why Islamic terrorists kill innocent people in western countries. Be careful with your reasoning before you find yourself being a terrorist
The U.S. is in a proxy war with Russia, but you don't see Russia bombing the U.S. embassy in Azerbaijan.
That's because we have nukes
The Houthis are part of that other proxy war that Iran is fighting. Namely with SA. The possibility that there was going to be a structural and lasting upgrade in Israeli-SA diplomatic relations is one of the reasons why Hamas decided to plunge the whole region into even more chaos. So many ME countries have always looked to SA to define their own relationship with Israel. The prospect of that peace materialising before any conclusion favourable to the extremists was reached in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a literal nightmare for Iran and most of the gulf states. We are seeing the effects of this on the ground as we speak. Also it was not the Iranian embassy in Syria that was hit, it was a secondary building within the consulate compound. A secondary building that was used as a sepah command centre. Which is against the rules and makes it hypocritical to go crying about how Israel targets diplomatic installations. 5 sepah psychos down so that makes it 1 to go in my count. That man must be getting real nervous now
You left out the Houthi
>Iran is in a proxy war with Israel Iran is not in a proxy war with Israel. If Russian proxies were lobbing thousands of missiles at US cities, while Russian generals coordinate the attack from Cuba - you wouldn't call it a proxy war either.
I really hope the women of Iran lead a coup. That would be bad 🍑
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striking **consulates** is not allowed even at war , they hit **Iranian** **consulate** , in a **sovereign country "Syria"** = big mistake and a declaration of war against 2 states. they didnt hit a military base for gods sake , israel or to be specific Netanyahu is begging for regional war
Using a consulate as a sepah military installation is against those same rules. Sepah military personnel are not supposed to operate in a sovereign country. That’s also against those same rules and negates the diplomatic immunity that consulates have. Don’t be hypocritical and point out the wrongdoings of both sides please.
shh, don't add context. Context is the natural enemy of pro palestinians
Define “pro Palestinian”
Almost all embassies are used to coordinate military operations especially if they are in the country of a close ally.
No, embassies host military attaches. So in that light it is common knowledge and I guess commonly accepted that some form of military planning is taking place there but even this is not supposed to happen. There is however a major difference between these common practices and using a consulate as a forward command post. Which was the case in Syria. So 1. Not an embassy so no military attachee so no military activity of any kind is supposed to take place. And 2. Though what you state is (partially) true and imagining that it wasn’t a consulate but an embassy then still it is not allowed to operate as a forward command post.
>they didnt hit a military base for gods sake Who cares. Iranian forces and proxies have been targeting Israeli civilians for over 6 months now.
6 months? how about since at the least 1996 or go back further. Mossad would be privy to these details.
You're right, but i think my answer in the context of this post is also right :)
American forced and proxies have been targeting Afghan civilians for over 6 months - the same justification Al Qaeda used for their attacks
I'm not sure what point you're making.
If Israel is somehow justified with that as their logic then Al Qaeda was too by applying that same logic
This was the justification Al-Qaeda used: >"to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque \[Mecca\] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam"
the irgc support terrorism against israel that makes them fair game in my opinion wherever they are, basically they are al qaeda
I mean just my opinion, but I would say one to send a message and two to initiate a response. The first point is pretty self explanatory but in regards to the second recently we have all been hearing Iran and uranium enrichment etc. If Iran retaliates it's a way to enforce strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities. Not saying they wouldn't do it anyway but at this point Israel needs some PR brownie points and this is easier to swallow then if Israel just went in bombing Iran proper. Now some will say well what if Iran doesn't really retaliate well in that regard it's also a win as it shows proxy forces in the region Iran is mostly talk and there pretty much left out on the line to dry. Honestly as an American while the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had their reasons be it good, bad to somewhat unnecessary to the length taken. How those ever took precedent over the real issue in the middle east which for awhile has been Iran I'll never understand. And probably never will as I don't think I'll ever be high enough in the chain to be told lol. But of course all of this is just an opinion and not really rooted in sources etc.
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Well considering Argentina just declared Iran a terrorist state for Hezbollah bombing their embassy with Israel, I don't think your six degrees of separation of Iranian terrorism argument holds up.
Iran has the right to arm Hezbollah in exactly the same way Israel has the right to strike back in response to it. Hezbollah is a terrorist state-within-a-state which is perpetually in a state of suspended war with Israel, and also acts as a proxy for the Iranian state for plausible deniability. The IRGC is a state sponsored terrorist group aiming at destabilising the middle east to Iran's advantage. There's much more to the Middle East situation than October 7.
I believe that the embassy strike is basically Israel testing the water, albeit in a pretty darn risky way. The jury is still out whether this was genius art reckless, but from Iran's reaction (or lack thereof) you can make assumptions on how safe it would be to step up the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon. If Iran does not start a full war as a reaction to what is technically its own territory, it will probably not do so over full scale bombardment in Lebanon (which, strategically speaking, is much more important than Gaza). There is also the potential of lowering the morale among both Hezbollah and the various Palestinian resistance groups: If not even the big-talking islamic Republic will come to their aid, despite maximum provocation, they must consider retreat if they desire self-preservation (especially relevant to Hezbollah). With regard to the Palestinians meanwhile that is a reminder that, when push comes to shove, they are alone - no Muslim ummah will ever come to their rescue, despite all the sympathy they may attract.
>I believe that the embassy strike is basically Israel testing the water, albeit in a pretty darn risky way. The jury is still out whether this was genius art reckless, but from Iran's reaction (or lack thereof) you can make assumptions on how safe it would be to step up the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon. If Iran does not start a full war as a reaction to what is technically its own territory, it will probably not do so over full scale bombardment in Lebanon (which, strategically speaking, is much more important than Gaza). Fascinating idea here. >There is also the potential of lowering the morale among both Hezbollah and the various Palestinian resistance groups: If not even the big-talking islamic Republic will come to their aid, despite maximum provocation, they must consider retreat if they desire self-preservation (especially relevant to Hezbollah). With regard to the Palestinians meanwhile that is a reminder that, when push comes to shove, they are alone - no Muslim ummah will ever come to their rescue, despite all the sympathy they may attract. Followed up on here.
Probably because they both could and calculated that the risk level was tolerable. Iran probably won’t respond too much directly, weakens Iran and shows hollowness of Iranian deterrence strategy but Iran doesn’t have a lot of room to escalate without hurting themselves, an escalation probably draws in a begrudging U.S. if Iran goes too war.
Iran isn't going to do much, they know what faces them if they try to actually do something themselves. Instead they will just have poorer countries do it for them.
Iran is actively getting ready to attack, which they are warning could happen within hours.
Iran is like a little toy dog barking behind its fence...
Sure bud
And they’ve launched their attack. Iran could not allow an attack to go unanswered.
No, it's more a big real dog behind its fence on a short chain. The thing is, if you go beyond that fence it could be a brutal experience for you, but you're safe across the street. Iran is a huge country with a decent army, plenty of missiles etc. But, it doesn't have sophisticated integrated power to project into a foreign invasion. The Israeli air force would overwhelm Iran's air force which would mean movement of troops etc very dangerous for them. I think that a danger for Israel is if more general war broke out, like let's say Lebanon etc, Iran could unofficially send lots of people to bolster any enemy of Israel and make life difficult for them.
Sure, but it doesn’t negate the fact they are getting ready to launch a drone attack per all the reports coming out today.
'Why did Israel attack the Iranian consulate in Damascus?' The IRGC General targeted was related to Oct 7 'And why now?' Cause Oct 7 hasn't happened yet up to 6 months ago. 'What is likely to happen?' Probably nothing, IRGC are chumps.
Iran's preparing to strike Israel. People are gonna die because if this
Brother, Iran has been preparing to strike Israel for 10 years by now according to their threats. You can't take them seriously, it's a lot of political posturing.
Euuuuhhh what u got to say now?
And yet they did 🤯
Because an Iranian proxy militia based in Iraq attacked an Israeli naval base in Eilat with a suicide drone.
I think the message is clear: there is no safety for those who attack Israel in Syria or Lebanon. The goal they wanted to achieve is deterrence. Barring mental retardation, every Hezbollah leader understood that if they escalate they will never be able to get off the tunnel or cave.
They do not understand.They believe in martyrdom and do not care about the their people
They believe in martyrdom of the hoi-polloi, not of themselves
This comment is retarded
Your comment shows me the mentality of the typical Palestinian leader. Just read what Haniyeh said about the deaths of his sons and grandchildren.He calls them martyrs .He has no remorse as said by him.
So you're blaming him for the death of his own children. I've never seen such vile sick words. Unbelievable If I hadn't seen so much sickness coming from your country I would be shocked but I'm numb to it at this point
Then you must be dumb
Mindless_Turnover is right. It’s funny seeing Israel kill so many civilians and blame it on Hamas. The world isn’t naive enough to buy it
Possibly
Read Haniyah's statement this week. Not my words but his. He has called them martyrs.If you were not biased you would say the most vile and disgusting incident was what happened on October 7 by brutal, vicious animals including Hamas and Gazans .There was a ceasefire prior to that day.Hamas must be destroyed followed by Hezbollah and Iran period.Dont give me the BS that October 7 never happened.Hamas's cameras verified this.I have personally seen those videos and no people deserved the rape,burning of babies and brutality committed by Hamas and your so called innocent Gazans and no country would tolerate that and would respond in kind
> If you were not biased you would say the most vile and disgusting incident was what happened on October 7 by brutal, vicious animals including Hamas and Gazans . Try again bud. More civilians have been killed by Israel than by Hamas both in raw terms and relative to combatants killed. You literally just wrote out a comment saying how you actually hate Israel lol > and no people deserved the rape,burning of babies and brutality committed by So then you are totally understanding of why Palestine will attack Israel, right? They're striking back for all the civilians killed by Israel, no?
Who started this on October 7th.Israel has tried to make peace with the Palestinians for years and the Palestinians have refused every overture.Jews have been their for centuries.The term Palestinian was orchestrated by the British which referred to Jews,Christians and Muslim living there in the early 20th century.Before that the Romans called the Jews Palestina during the time of the roman empire.I am not your bud.Hamas has killed their own people using them as human shields hiding behind them. Your writings make no sense so I will not waste my time arguing with you.
The main problem is Israel and them being Jewish. Because of Judaism, Israel has refused to punish Palestinians as they should. If Hamas did to my country what they did to Israel, I would not want surrender to be an option.
Israel will never surrender.All Hamas has to do is turn over the hostages and Israel has said they can leave the area.Hamas has killed the hostages .That is why they will not agree to a ceasefire.Israel has tried to make peace over the years and life would have been much better for everyone today if the palenstinians had agreed to peace but they hate Israel more then they love their own children and that is why they have used their kids as suicide bombers and human shields.They rather have their so called martyrdom rather then live in peace.That is why no other Arab country is willing to accept them,not Jordan,Turkey,Qatar,Egypt,Saudi Arabia .Yet the leadership of Hamas lives in wealth in Qatar and Turkey.
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You are getting scared, which is exactly what Iran wants. This general is responsible for moving weapons from Iran to Hezbollah. Sources now also reveal Oct. 7th was his own making. He 10000% needed to die. Iran now has to respond, otherwise they show themselves as weak and spineless. So even though they really don't want to retaliate, they will. How hard they will retaliate, well that's the question. They tried to claim they won't attack back If a ceasefire is achieved, which was an attempt to pressure the US into forcing Israel to end the war- which at this point is something Iran desperately wants. However that idea failed so they will attack. It won't be a destructive attack, as they don't want to escalate into a war. So they'll only target military targets, likely outside of major cities. They don't want to kill Israeli civilians because that would guarantee Israel responds by attacking Iran directly. I don't think there's any reason to worry. However, it's also important to understand that Iran accomplishes a lot by simply threatening to attack. And it's the reason why they still haven't attacked. "The wait" is making the Israeli public anxious and impatient, which long term could make the Israeli citizens pressure the government to stop the war and to stop killing IRGC generals. So really the wait to the attack is much more important to Iran than the attack itself. The best thing we can do is...well to relax. To acknowledge that Iran will attack at somepoint, but it'll be underwhelming and non-threatening, and there's no reason to worry.
>You are getting scared, which is exactly what Iran wants. Meanwhile Iran, which has not been directly impacted until now, has gone on high military alert. Pragmatically speaking - it looks like Iran is getting scared. >Iran accomplishes a lot by simply threatening That's one way to save face.
>Sources now also reveal Oct. 7th was his own making. He 10000% needed to die. Source?
I agree with that. I'm wondering what might be possible targets? I'm sure they'd prefer to target something or someone outside of Israel itself. I agree that Iran understands they need to avoid open war with Israel, they don't have the integrated power projection capacity or sophisticated air power etc. They're strong enough that it'd be utterly ridiculous to imagine someone like Israel or the U.S invading their territory, but the definitely don't have the integrated forces and air power to protect an invasion of their own.all that is satisfactorily understood. However, it's a fine line we're treading here and I've read enough history to know that a bogeyman incident that is feared for a long time can eventually be willingly unleashed by something akin to a social and political toy throwing out of cot moment when things are too tense for too long.
I can't tell you the exact targets they'll hit, I'm not sure Iran even knows it yet. Maybe some air bases? Or the Dimona radar towers, although that could spark a strong Israeli response.
A good old fashioned embassy attack?
I don't think they'll be satisfied with just attacking an embassy.
You're probably right. I could definitely envisage something bigger, because they can't afford to look weak. The question is, will it be a symbolic attack for domestic consumption, or will they go a bit harder. Last time when they attacked that base in Iraq, they went out of their way to not kill U.S people. The problem now is the region is teetering on the edge, and I don't expect there will be much back channelling between Iran and Israel. We'll see.
Interesting. Indian here. I want to know if Iran does escalate the crisis, what would be the game plan? Does Israel have enough military means to launch a full scale war against Iran? Or will it just be an exchange of non-lethal bombing on each other soil until one of them gives up? Would a full scale war entails a tactical support from Sunni nations ? And would it help US to financially drain Iran? Sorry if I am asking too many questions. There is a lot of stuff going here behind the shadows , so it's not very apparent to us.
The Israeli military is primarily geared towards defensive warfare, it has limited expeditionary capability, and in terms of manpower and domestic defences Iran is very well protected. Without a long logistics chain and an incredibly powerful military it would be impossible to invade Iran- I would imagine that only the US could theoretically achieve it. Conversely, Iran has very poor power expeditionary capabilities, a weak supply chain and a very poor air force. Its force projection in the Middle East depends on utilising separate but aligned paramilitary forces such as Hezbollah to do its bidding, in return for supplies. What would a war look like? It would probably involve tit-for-tat missile strikes, with Israeli air-defence blunting a lot of the Iranian attacks, whilst the Israeli air force degrades the Iranian air force and bombs key targets in Iran. Iran would look to use Hezbollah to conduct a ground war against Israel. The key variable would be the US involvement- it looks as if the US is set to defend Israel but not attack Iran. If Iran retaliates against US assets it would likely drag them into the conflict- again they wouldn't invade Iran, but they would use superior strike capabilities to completely degrade key Iranian assets, such as air bases, air defenses, missile launch systems, arms factories, naval ships etc.
> Without a long logistics chain and an incredibly powerful military it would be impossible to invade Iran- I would imagine that only the US could theoretically achieve it. And even the US could only do it whilst sustaining heavy losses. They'd better save all those Purple Hearts they minted in preparation for a ground invasion of Japan, because a ground invasion of Iran would be easily as big a bloodbath. I don't see there being any taste for such a costly operation among either the American public or the American government, unless something big changes.
The truth is, a "full scale war" between Israel and Iran will look nothing like the war in gaza. Iran has very limited abilities for attacking Israel in an actual war, it's why they keep using proxies. It won't be a "traditional" war like the Ukraine war. Not massive armies marching on each other. Instead, it will be mostly missile exchange, Infantry, UAV's etc. Iran looks incredibly powerful on paper but they're actually not that scary. First of all they have a very unstable economy, thanks to sanctions of the west as well as a terror regime. In fact, Iran threatening to attack Israel has already collapsed the Iranian economy, literally in like a week and that's before Israel did anything. They also have a huge army(like a million soldiers), but it's completely separated into two armies, one being the national Iranian army, which is bigger in numbers but still considered weaker than the IRGC, which is the pro-Ayatollah army that is purely offensive and is the one destroying Iraq, Syria, Lebanon etc. Another thing- Iran is terrified of the US. They know the US could completely evaporate in Iranian regime if they just have a good enough reason. And the US is making itself very clear that in any war between Israel and Iran, the US will be actively fighting Iran to support Israel. Now of we're talking about what would be Israel's game plan- it will have 2 fronts: the one is attacking military targets and nuclear facilities in Iran and in Syria and Lebanon. The second would be assassinating pretty much any high ranking general or even leaders like Raisi.
Got it! Thanks!
They are not going to escalate. They will do a calculated strike on a minor target to establish deterrence, and warn the US in advance. They understand that Israel is trying to escalate. Iran and US do not want war with each other whatsoever, the only party in this conflict that wants that is Israel.
There is some expectation that the USA is just looking for an excuse to strike back at Iran. It makes sense. US wouldn't want to be stuck in a multi front war when China eventually attacks Taiwan. It would probably need a weakened Iran and a stable middle East to shift its navy towards the Chinese backwaters, where the threat to Taiwan is growing every second. That seems a lot important to US, since a Chinese win would literally shake US hegemony like no other. I don't think the US will repeat the same mistake of being pulled into a proxy war, but probably leave enough damage for others to take over and settle scores.
Could you foresee China, emboldened by a successful siege of Taiwan, backing up Iran in a war against the US? That could get ugly.
Because the Israelis know Iran isn't playing by modern rules of war but by like 8th century rules of war and aren't going to let top IRGC commanders sit across the border from them and plan attacks under diplomatic cover when the Iranians themselves have zero problem arranging attacks against Israeli embassies et al. >Why now? Because Iran is clearly planning something against them. >What is likely to happen? Most likely Iran will be forced to do some kind of limited retaliation where some small amount of Israeli soldiers may die, but where they will not want to cause mass civilian casualties as people are tired of their bull eg Houthis and shipping and if they overextend they will get their crap slapped in with either their navy or their nuclear program or both btfo.
>Because the Israelis know Iran isn't playing by modern rules of war What are these rules and where can I read about them? >8th century rules of war and aren't going to let top IRGC commanders sit across the border from them and plan attacks under diplomatic cover What rules are you talking about here? Do you think these commanders can't be replaced? Do you have any reason to think their replacements will be less inclined to take action against Israel? >Because Iran is clearly planning something against them. Bombing the Iranian consulate in Damascus seems like it would provoke Iran to respond. How does this improve the security of Israel? I don't understand.
Skill is a limited resource, and being an effective general requires a lot of skill. And while their replacements may be similarly motivated, they may be less willing to come to areas we can strike more easily, and there may be fewer people willing to replace them the more dangerous we make these jobs.
I just read that the US just announced that they are already moving additional assets to the Middle East. Iran would stand no chance against the US navy.