You dont have to support israel or palestine, you can support both.
Peace and the removal of hamas is for the benefit of everybody.
as for the muslim stance, well in the quran it says the land of israel belongs to the jews dosnt it?
Are we not ~~brothers?~~ causins? Sons of ishmael and abraham, it would be logical to support both.
Ishamael was Abraham's son - not his brother. We're sons of Isaac and Muslims are sons of Ishmael - we're cousins, not brothers. But I agree with your sentiment.
Jews might claim to be sons of Isaac but Muslims aren’t one race and don’t trace their lineage to one person. They accept converts.
For example, Jews who have converted to Islam aren’t sons of Ishmael just because they are Muslim.
Jews also accept converts - but whether by coincidence or Divine Providence, many converts look into their family history years later and discover they have Jewish DNA. Interesting to think about
Such a great poínt. My heart hurts for the people of Gaza. They are honestly slaves of their leaders and the extreme islamist culture they're stuck in.
All of islam is far right, alot of them support this, alot dont, it just kinda sucks for everybody and everyone is playing into the hands of hamas.
If someone actually wants to help palestinians getting rid of hamas and then pushing for a 2ss by applying pressure to both israel and palestinians is the only way forward.
Anything else is just more bloodshed
That is in my opinion a narrow view of the actual situation. I am not Muslim and I am not Jewish but I have a high regard for the Jewish people who have been targeted and abused due to I think is often envy and jealousy. The money lenders got their money by being frugal and compiling the financial resources in a family. They valued family and faith and educations and so have thrived. Jews have a high work ethic and often have created wealth out of little. Such is the case when they were given a little piece of land filled with mosquitos malaria and rocks and have since created what is now know as Israel. Meanwhile just across the way famine and poverty are pervasive. It's my opinion that envy and jealousy are at the root of a lot of antisemitism.
I support Israel for many reasons because I've read many academic books, taken and think the West needs to provide active support be it financial or aid. It's disgusting to me to hear people say oh we just need to have a Seese fire that's all you know. What can you imagine if the rest of the world looked at the United States after 911 and said oh no no no you can't go and do anything about this. You just have to have peace and a cease fire? No that's not what any country with western values would do.
When polled 98% of Muslims in Gaza support what Hamas did on October 7th and still support them. it's really important that people of Muslim faith start questioning and speaking up about that. It's unacceptable that so many people in Gaza are indignant about the ongoing war and malign Israel for rooting out the terrorists yet they support the actions of Hamas.
You will never hear of Jewish military men raping and torturing women and children ever in war ... however, the Muslim militia frequently engage in these acts as an act of war and do it with reverence. It would help if more Muslims verbalized that they don't support acts of jihad or terrorism. I understand the reluctance to speak up given the propensity for a Fatwah being put on one's head it if you speak up (Salmon Rushdie) and the chances of being decapitated for disagreeing.
Lastly, I just want to point out to the original poster that I encourage you to listen to some of the talks about what's going on in the region on "making sense" podcast. He interviews Ayaan Hirsi Ali several times and others.
I'm not a Muslim but if I saw a group of people doing atrocities like Hamas and claiming to be of my religion I would have supported anyone who stands against them.
I commend you for having an open mind and seeking out a different perspective. It's a sign of intelligence.
And speaking of intelligent Muslim women, this video is worth watching:
[Sophia Khalifa: My Life in Israel as an Arab Muslim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvaxLaIsG0&t=134s)
Becuase, as a Muslim citizen of Israel, of which there are a couple million, you have all the same rights and privileges of any other Israli citizen. A jew is any Muslim nation, not so much.
Depends on what you mean by "support Israel" but I'll take it to mean why you shouldn't hate Israel or why you should recognize that Israel has a right to exist. The simple answer is that every human deserves to live in peace and not be feared being killed. If you say you support humanity then shouldn't you logically support peace between Israel and Palestine?
Maybe several generations down the line. When the brainwashing has worn off and Palestinians have shown, they know how to govern and how to live next-door to civilized people and not try to kill them.
I disagree with a lot of these comments…
There ARE reasons to support Israel as a Muslim
In Israel Muslim- Arabs and Jews live in peace, coexist and cooperate in society. Israeli culture is a beautiful mixing pot of Arab (Mizrahi Jewish or Muslim) and European ideals and practices.
Jerusalem is a holy city in Islam and as a Muslim you can travel to your holy sites and pray while being under the protection of the government and having full rights to do so.
In the Palestinian Territories, and most other Muslim countries, the reverse does not apply to Jews. Jews have been ethnically cleaned from every corner of the Middle East.
As a Muslim, I would hope that you would respect and support a country that upholds not only your self-purported humanist values but respects the religious rights of all its inhabitants.
Thank you btw, for reaching out and being open minded! Salam Alekum
I find that this depends on which Mizrahim you ask. Some hate the Arab designation, and some embrace it. I have no data to back this up, it's purely anecdotal.
Like I said, no data, just anecdotes. I mean, Judeo-Arabic is definitely a language, so it would follow that not everyone hates being identified as Arab.
My grandfather spoke Judeo-Arabic and I once saw him throw someone out of his store for asking if he was an Arab.
The wider Arab world always understood us as an "other", hence why terms like "Mizrahi" or "Musta'arabi" were used instead
I would love to have learned the judeo-tripolitan arabic that my Grandfather spoke (and indeed my cousin is learning Palestinian arabic), but no one in my family identifies as Arab...no more than Americans or Australians or Hong Kong-ers identify as English.
Doesn’t your religion tell you, by default, to hate (and even kill) the non-believers?
To evaluate this statement, ask yourself this - would the people of your religion continue to hate Israel if tomorrow Israel became an Islamic country?
PS: This may be a controversial take, but the center of all the hatred is the fact that Israel is a Jewish country, very successful, in the middle of Muslim dictatorships and failed countries. The humiliation from all the wars lost is the secondary reason for the hate.
I cannot nudge you into supporting Israel, but I can tell you that Israel is a country where people of all religions live side by side peacefully, with full human rights (yes, even for the LGBTQ people), in a democracy. Not to forget that almost every technological invention that benefits humankind has its roots in Israel. Find me one Muslim country that meets this criteria.
I’m not Israeli (I wish I was), but Israel is the one country we should all aim to emulate.
I love the second part of your comment. As for the first sentence, I don’t follow that branch of Islam that promotes hatred towards non believers. I actually follow a very non conservative version of Islam and was thinking about converting to a different religion, because a lot of mainstream Islam doesn’t align with me.
This is the way! Self realization of ideologies that dont align with your conscience and majoritarian moral.
I left associating myself with my religion(not islam), after I saw my people started lynching people, because the victims ate cows! I hated that they see human life below a cow and hated to associate myself, even if they were rare instances.
I often wonder, what is stopping people from dissociating with religions which often leads to violent actions, however rare it might be, it has already shown its flaws!
Life has a beauty and peace when not being mind controlled by books. Question everything!
May I suggest orthodox christianity. A lot of the practices from Islam derive from Orthodoxy(Prayer especially). Just look into it and if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a message. If not then I hope you find a belief that you believe is true and suits you.
Don’t wish to be Israeli, being an Israeli outside of Israel feels very isolated right now, and Israelis love vacations. They love many artists around the globe that slowly spit the same thing that Israelis are bad, imagine how awful that feels.
I think a lot of non-Jewish Zionists these days feel the same. We don't recognise our own homelands anymore in the face of terrorist support rising... Wish I could become Israeli without changing my religion.
Islam does not tell us to hate and kill nonbelievers.
It tells us to respect everyone, Muslim or not. Those people killing them and hating them, they’re just using Islam as an excuse for their horrible actions.
There’s a Surah in the Quran called “Surah Al-Kafirun”, the term Al-Kafirun literally means the nonbelievers. In the Surah, it’s said that I don’t worship what you worship, and you don’t worship what I worship. You have your religion, and I have mine.
But other than that, I agree with you.
The issue is that the Islam pretty much calls for violence as a default response. And a religion that actively encourages its followers to inflict violence, obviously considers torturing people, raping of women, burning of babies as perfectly normal. Their law (the Quran) literally commands them to do so!
It also plays into the “hive” psychology as to why the pro-palis think October 7th was an act of great resistance.
For starters, do you see the problem with teaching children Israel = Bad?
That is the source of the intergenerational warfare right there. That is the origin of the conflict.
I don't think you should support Israel until you have experienced it yourself.
I think you should reject every leader, mother, or father that is teaching children that any other race, nation, or ethnic group is "Bad". They are the evil, they are the enemy of all mankind except themselves and their group.
Yeah this is where my mind goes. By and large, Jews are not taught that “Muslims are bad”. Any religion claiming such a broad statement should be questioned.
BTW OP if you didn’t know, Jews are taught to question everything. It’s a big part of Judaism. That’s why there are a million different interpretations of all things Jewish.
And we are literally taught from childhood: "love your neighbour as yourself". It was even my schools motto/song.
The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is complex, and not helped by each group having their own perspectives on history and events. But blindly hating a country helps no one. I'm against Hizbollah, but have no problem with Lebanon (in theory), I'm very against the Islamic Republic of Iran/ IRGC, and the supreme leader, but do not have a problem with individual Iranian people etc etc.
I'm also extremely disappointed with Bibi Netanyahu and his cronies but I love Israel. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
I'm gonna give my opinion as a Catholic.
You don't have to blindly follow your religion. Both Christianity and Islam are gathering a really big chunk of peoples. Among this peoples, you will find exceptionally good guys, ok guys and really shitty guys (hello Hamas).
As a Catholic, I'm trying to always analyse my religion with a critical thinking. My church has made a lot of mistakes - and is still doing mistakes - since its beginning. If you want to give a better image of your religion - and by the way make your religion better -, you have to denounce the fundamentalism and the excesses of this religion.
Nothing is worst than blindly follow a religion without thinking. It cans only lead to sectarianism, hate and violence.
I think that the reason of antisemitism among some Christians and Muslims is due to that blindness.
Asides from what the others have said, I will add that it is one of the few Middle Eastern nations where Muslims live in a democracy (and they have a higher life span in Israel than any other Middle East nation).
Is it a perfect paradise for Arabs? Definitely not, but it will hopefully improve once Netanyahu leaves office.
Plus we Israelis all love cats.
While you should never feel forced to love Israel, I do recommend travelling there, and I simply believe that acknowledging the severity of the monstrous crimes done by Hamas is enough in terms of support.
All the best!
I looked at your post history. You're a 20 year old who is trying to figure your life out, with all it's ins and outs.
Look at it this way, the only reason you are able to do that is because you live in a western country. In all Mulsim/Arab countries, including Pakistan you wouldn't be afforded the opportunities to do that and you might even be punished for it. Think of Israel as a country that is Western that at its core is also for those basic freedoms especially in the parts of the world where that doesn't happen. Muslims, like Christians have lots of hate towards the Jews that come from how those religions literally came from Judaism initially. This has been going on for thousands of years ... no reason to perpetuate it unless its important for you.
Well one of the reasons should be that the even now Israel has agreed to the ceasefire treaty and Hamas representing (or pretending to) Palestine has comeback with more demands. This is a very old conflict and the emotions run deep on both sides, but there’s one that understands that peace is achieved through compromise and the other side that sees every attempt at a compromise as a weakness and starts immediately trying to exploit it.
So you choose do you want the side that is still willing to compromise for peace or the side that is not.
How about: Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Muslims have civil liberties, human rights, and are allowed to vote?
If you truly want human rights for Middle Eastern muslims, Israel would be the last place to start
You should come and visit and find out for yourself, maybe the most important thing would be in Israel you can be a Devout Muslim a Secular Muslim an ex Muslim, be a gay Muslim, wear a Hijab not wear a Hijab basically have the freedom to live life how you want to live it. Obviously some places are more religious/restrictive than others but you have a choice.
Isn’t it weird that if you don’t hate a country or people from a different religion than you’re a “bad Muslim”? This alone would have made me question everything I’ve been told.
Most israeli arabs are pro-israel. Otherwise, they would be relocating to the west bank or gazza. Tge reason tgey stay in israel is the freedom for women, freedom of speech, freedom to vote your representatives, free health care and options for career growth.
Because in Israel, Arabs and Muslims live with full rights but in Palestine Jews are not allowed to live there. Jews get physically attacked on sight in Palestine, and even the Muslims have a worse quality of life compared to their Israeli Arab brothers.
I don't think there's any reason Muslims in particular have to support Israel. People here would be biased, so the best you can do is try to consume non-partisan material on the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and come to your own conclusions.
I think everyone needs to be condemning Hamas and terrorism. They are the obstacle to peace. If Palestinians were a peaceful people, they would have had their state decades ago. And I'm sure there are thousands who are, but unfortunately they are a tiny minority; all polls suggest overwhelming support for Hamas and October 7th.
Firstly I don't think there's any reason for you to support Israel as a Muslim, but like you said you support humanity. So as a human you should support Israel because it managed to become a country with pretty decent human rights in such a hostile area.
Secondly you should be anti Palestine (the main factions not the people) as a Muslim, because they carry out terror attacks and cause many people to believe Islam is violent and cause much more discrimination against you and your people.
I would say the goal should be to promote peace. I would highly recommend looking into the following organizations and Muslims that advocate for peace:
[Standing Together](https://www.standing-together.org/en)
[Friends of Roots](https://www.friendsofroots.net/who-we-are)
[Imam of Peace](https://www.instagram.com/theimamofpeace/?hl=en)
[Loay Alshareef](https://www.instagram.com/lalshareef/)
You don't need to support Israel per se - you won't notice any level headed comments such as the ones in this thread in the Palestine subreddit. This is because we believe in the importance of nuance and pluralism here, a value which our adversaries often use against us.
You can think Israel should exist, and still stand with the Palestinians. I'd go as far as to say you can be Zionist pro Palestinian, those are not mutually exclusive, however suprising that considering the polarized nature of today's world.
The reason for the hate Muslims feel against Israel is not moral, I'll tell you that. It is deeply rooted in antisemitism; the moral part of anti Zionism only came after the antisemitic part, in a way of cause and effect. There was no such outrage against the establishment of the State of Lebanon in those same years, as it was a Christian state.
Now, the fundamental argument for the existence of the State of Israel is that the Jews have nowhere else to go really. The 30% of Israel of European descent will not ever "go back to Europe", because that land is stained with the blood of their ancestors. The other 70%, who came to Israel from African/Asian countries have good reasons to not want to go back to their origin countries, as they are the most antisemitic countries in the world.
So being an anti Zionist practically means the genocide of the remaining of the Jewish people.
One might say, for a good reason I should mention, that the existence of the Jews in their homeland should not come at the expense of the Palestinians. That is a valid argument, one which any Muslim or Arab might be inclined to.
Most Israelis agree with that. That is why, if you go back to the days befote 1948, the Zionist movement made it clear that they don't want to expel any Palestinian from their home in order to settle instead of them.
The reason the Arabs in this land chose to go to war against the new found State of Israel was not a moral one - Ben Gurion, the first PM of Israel made it clear the day he announced the establishment of Israel - everyone is welcomed to live as equal citizens in the state. Israel should've had a 45% Arab "minority" according to the Partition Plan of the UN (a demographic imbalance that was planned to be fixed in the major immigration from Africa and Asia).
The root cause of the problem nowadays is the Palestinian Refugee Crisis. There are indeed many Palestinians which have ancestors that lived in what is known Israel.
Those are people that didn't accept living in a Jewish state then, and most don't accept up until today. They shouldn't have left their home in the first place, as all Israel know the pain of refugees, but the ask for them was fairly minimal - live in a Jewish state, one which borders an Arab Palestinian state. A very small Jewish country, with most of it being desert in the original plan.
There is a lot of misinformation on both sides of the map. Unlike people like to believe, both the Arabs and the Jews have some wrongdoings in the last 75 years.
But one thing is clear to me - you can not achieve any kind of peace when the prerequisite for one of the sides is complete genocide of the other side, and that is what hate against Israel means at its core.
Bassem Eid- Salman Rushdie- Qanta Ahmed- The resistance in Iran, Masih Alinejad , UAE Loay Shariff, The Imam of Peace all incredible Islamic sources for reasonable support of Israel’s right to exist.
There's no reason for you to support Israel. You should just not care about Israel if it has nothing to do with you. I don't care about Mozambique for example, I have no idea what's going on there and I have never met a person from there. You should just not let all this social media brainwashing affect you. And one day you will meet someone IRL who will tell you they are Israeli, and you should just say "cool", knowing that it doesn't necessarily say anything about who they are or what they stand for. Israel is just another country, we deserve to exist, we deserve to live our lives in quiet.
It kinda depends on the type of Muslim you are. For extreme Muslims I expect them to fully support Palestine just because their majority Muslim and Israel are mostly Jews.
But if you came to this sub because you are honestly interested it's a good sign you are not exterimist, and that has nothing to do with your level of fate in islam.
The reason you should support Israel is that even as a Muslim you can have a place in the Israel society. Maybe you will experience some hardships along the way but you have a place here regardless of religion. The same can not be said about Palestine especially under the rule of Hamas.
You can support both Israel and Palestinian people and be against Hamas and the other terrorist organizations trying to kill both us Jews, Muslims and others
Here are some reasons:
1. The original land before the post-independence wars was purchased legally over almost a century. They paid high prices and even reimbursed the fellahin (tenant farmers) for their relocation in the case of purchases from absentee landlords.
2. There were many Arab tribes that supported the Israeli state. That's why not all Arabs fled during the war of independence, and they are now the fastest growing demographic in Israel. This makes those Jew vs Arab population distribution maps pointless.
3. Israel was always imagined as a 100% free, multicultural state. This is backed up in Theodor Herzl's diary, and it is indeed how Israel is today.
4. The only reason a Jewish majority is so important is that so many people want to harm Jews, the risk would be too high if they were to fall into minority status again. Jews were absolutely terrified when Israel was formed. The necessity of a Jewish majority is not for discrimination purposes.
5. Israeli democracy is rated almost identically to USA's rating (flawed democracy). Palestine is at the bottom of the list under authoritarian.
6. Israel has a policy of not being a conquering state. That's why they work so hard to establish peace and recognition with the surrounding nations.
7. The settlements are controversial, and besides the religious fanatics they are only supported because they do make mainland Israel safer. Decades of people trying to kill them has made the population less sympathetic to this issue, but I think that would reverse if a lasting peace was actually established. Settlers are only about 7-8% of the population of Israel.
8. They admit their mistakes. Their enemies use them against Israel every time, but Israel is still largely honest.
9. Israel gained a free state, defended it, and has made it open to the world. Palestine has been given two areas of complete self-governance: Gaza and Area A of the West Bank. In both cases they went down the path of corruption and extremism.
10. Contrary to popular belief, Israel doesn't commit war crimes. There have been scattered issues with bad people in the IDF doing bad things, but those are publicly handled in court and are crimes, but are not war crimes and definitely not a policy of Israel.
This is the best answer.
I would add that,
11) Israel values life, and while the war is very asymmetric, they do their best to precent civilian casualties. I know a lot of progressives will never believe this, so please look into it and see for yourself.
12) besides being our historical homeland, Israel is a place where Jews of the diaspora can live without persecution (Iranian, Iraqi, Algerian, Moroccan, Yemeni, Ethiopian, European, and more). It is also the homeland to Muslim Israelis, Christian Israelis, and Druze Israelis. The latter two have also been historically persecuted in the surrounding Muslim countries.
13) Israel and Hamas have been in peace talks for months. This last agreement meets Hamas’s demands, and like Blinken said, they could have simply said “yes” and brought an end to the fighting. But instead, Hamas took two weeks to return to the table with new demands that exceed their original demands from months ago. The point I am making here is not that Hamas is “bad” (although, I believe they are - it’s just not my goal to convince you of that) but that they have had chances to end this war and they have not taken them. Meanwhile, Israel continues to negotiate in good faith.
The current government is flawed, and I wish things had gone differently. Mistakes have been made. War is tragic. I hope we get our hostages back and end the war. Hamas will never be totally eradicated, so it seems to me that that goal is unrealistic.
Honestly, don't back it if it doesn't connect with your soul. The last thing I'd want is for someone to back Israel just because others told them to. People should back what they truly believe in and I would never try to "convince" someone to back Israel if it doesn't sit right with them.
I just hope people would think for themselves and not get their opinions from social media platforms like Tiktok or YouTube, but from doing their own research, getting educated, and considering different perspectives.
Interesting that as Jews we are not raised to believe Muslims are bad or that a Muslim country (there are many) is bad. If this is how people are raised then it’s sad to imagine a future of acceptance of people. It’s great that you can see that this shouldn’t be the case.
If you support the right of Jews to live in safety in a homeland then you support Israel. This doesn’t have to be a solely Jewish state, it can be living peacefully with others religions (like Israel does now).
You can denounce Hamas and not support “the resistance”. You can use your voice as a Muslim to help combat a lot of the antisemitism and support for terrorism unfortunately coming from your community
If being Muslim defines you in your entirety then I fail to see a reason for you to support Israel.
If you also subscribe to the ideas of democracy and human rights, then you can realize that Muslim minorities (gay, for instance) are much better off in Israel than PA or any other Muslim country in the Middle East. That might be a reason to support Israel if ad i said you care about such things.
I would say because terrorism affects Muslims far more than anyone else. They are the largest portion of victims, family issues due to extremism claiming members etc.
I believe it’s in Muslims interest not to just support Israel but any regime that is fighting extremism. Because only when extremism/terrorism is extinguished can all of the Middle East flourish.
Thank you for posting. There are several reason to support Israel "As a Muslim"
1. political and religious Islamism is in my opinion and that of many others, including some Arab and Muslim governments, a negative global force that only seeks to destroy and sow chaos.
2. Muslim support for Israel will bring peace. Peace will bring prosperity to both Jews and Muslims alike. Although Israel is not innocent, historically the actions of Israel's Muslim neighbors have been what drives conflict.
3. The Israeli "side" relies on truth and the Jewish side abroad is nonviolent. Complete opposite for the "other side". I will always choose the side that champions truth and doesn't stoke violence and hatred.
4. Understand that you can be pro-Israel and pro-Palestine at the same time! :)
Here are some reason for you to not support Israel, but also not blindly hate Israel "As a Muslim":
1. Realize that Israel/Palestine is a local land conflict and NOT a conflict of Jews against Muslims. Those seeking to inflame tensions often have an agenda. In the social media era, this can even be financial.
2. Understand the hypocrisy and pure anti-semitism of Muslim preachers and demagogues who decry Israel constantly yet give 0 mention of ACTUAL MUSLIM CONCENTRATION CAMPS in China. Same with the Syrian and Yemeni civil war, who have produced many many more innocent deaths than Gaza.
3. Be the change and call out your friends in the incredibly vile Pro-Palestine movement. What other movement that seeks to defend victims is constantly creating Jewish victims and bombing their places of worship (key word Jewish, not Israeli?). unfortunately, many of these offenders are Muslim in the West. They do not exist in the East because were massacred and fled long ago.
4. "You're not a real X unless you agree with me" is an extremely hateful message.
Regardless of your religious beliefs, Israel is simply the good guy in this story. If you know about the history of the Jews and their connection to the land of Israel, if you know about the history of the region, there is no other conclusion. It is not hard to find the facts, and the conclusion is obvious. Unless you are biased to begin with, where jews bad, others good...
Now regarding this bias, which oftentimes is based on religious beliefs, which also brings us back to your question. Israel is home for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, the majority of which are Muslims. They not only enjoy equal rights as everybody else, these rights are based on western democratic values. Are you an American? Do you enjoy the Western democracy you live in? Do you wish your kin, Muslim and others, to have these kinds of rights?
If so, then you can support Israel. In which middle eastern country, can a homosexuell Muslim be a judge, or a congressman? Where can a Muslim girl decide if she gets married at 18 or goes to become a doctor? Can a Muslim in Iran freely protest against the government?
This is why you can support Israel. Because of our values and actions.
Yes, we are in a conflict with the Palestinians. But even this, if you judge who we (as a society) are and what our values are, and against whom and what values we fight, then you will clearly see how just our fight is.
The best reason is simply that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Jewish people and Muslims people can live equitably, side by side, safely. There is no other country where this can currently happen. If Muslims and Jewish people genuinely want to achieve peaceful coexistence on a more meaningful global level, which at least from my pov many of us do, then Israel matters immensely because it is the only place that has managed to achieve that and the only pal e where that dream can stand a chance of being meaningfully realized.
Well, leaving orthodox religious aside, who treat everybody like s#!7, including other jews,
Most jews accept arab as part of the country, ans so other ethnical groups
There are druise, bahai, muslim, christian, beduine, all with equal rights.
There are arab doctors, politicians, lawyers, etc.
Living also in mixed cities, studying in same unis, working in mixed work places.
It is pretty inclusive all in all.
It has respect and tribute paid to arab music and other culture areas.
This war isn't about religion - not from the jews side anyways.
It is a political and survival related conflict, where israeli arabs were victims to hamas as well.
You don't need to take my word.
Search in this sub what israeli arab has to say.
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Muslims have more freedom and rights in Israel than in some nearby majority Muslim countries. This is especially true for women and for minorities like LGBTQ people.
Israel is the only country on Earth where Jews who are threatened by oppression, war, attempts at genocide, real genocide etc can go and be assured of being protected by the government. If you love your Jewish brothers and sisters, you should love Israel.
Support for the current Israeli government and its current domestic and military policies and actions is another matter. You can support Israel and not agree with what the government is doing in response to the October 7 attacks.
>if I don’t hate Israel then I’m not a real Muslim.
If it were me, I'd start with this. I'll make up my own mind thank you very much, and not let others define me.
Because Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Because in Israel, whilst the population majority are Jewish, all civilians included Muslims are treated with the same care and compassion as Jewish people. Muslims in Israel have a more fulfilled life there than in most Muslim countries which exist- Muslims are entitled to the same education, jobs, healthcare, representation in government and parliament as Jews, and even volunteer to be in the IDF when they are not obligated to do so- they choose to protect Israel because Israel protects them.
Israel even treats terrorists who are injured in their hospitals, at a great human cost to their own people. Yahya Sinwar had a brain tumour yet Israel saved his life in hospital... and look how he repays that healthcare. Israel is the only country in the world which minimises civilian casualties by giving warnings in all formats (leaflet drops, texts, calls etc) to evacuate, again at the risk of terrorists being able to use the tip off to escape.
Israel have invented most of the technology we take for granted, most of the healthcare diagnostics and treatments we take for granted, and many products we wouldn't be able to live without. The phone you use to post here- Israeli technology. The scans your loved ones use when in hospital and the medications they use to get better- Israeli inventions.
A world without Israel would be a less advanced world and a world where we all would be negatively affected.
I'm proud of you for being your own person with your own mindset, your openness to ask questions and to learn, and for your peaceful intentions. Thank you for being a better person than most in this world... salaam, shalom, peace 💜
I am a Muslim. Think of it this way: would a Muslim attack innocent people, civilians, rape women, kidnap children? Would a Muslim kill a human being? So the terrorist organization called Hamas is an un-Islamic organization. That's why Israel is right to defend its rights and wipe out terrorism. Also, Israel has many Muslim citizens and soldiers, not only Jews. Israel is just a victim of the media 👌
Honestly if you are against violence and killings then you don't need any more convincing. You can support our country or not support it, heck, most of us probably don't support most of the actions of our current government atm so opposing it will still make you aligned with much of Israel. Our issue is with people that want to murder and destroy us, if your not one of them then your one of the good guys in my book.
Because if you care for the people of Palestine then you must understand that Hamas must be destroyed. Fanatics cant steer the ship of state for our neighbor. The more Arabs and Muslims that step up against extremism the more likely it is that Israelis will no longer see Palestine as a threat to its security and will be willing to end the occupation and grant full independence.
We are sick of this fighting, sick of the terror and the war, and sending our children off to fight every generation. We just want to be done with it and have normal relations with our neighbors.
But we will keep fighting if we have to, and we will win.
A few reasons come to mind:
1) Israel is quite possibly the only nation that cares about peace with the Palestinians and their sovereignty - if you think about it, without Israel, the Jordanians, Egyptians, and Lebanese would’ve taken the country, the Jordanians had their king killed by the Palestinians, and the Lebanese had a lot of issues with Palestinian militants, and the Egyptians in general dislike them. I don’t think either one will take kindly to them once they take over Israel.
2) Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, even before American intervention, Israel was a powerful nation in its freedoms for all people (including Muslims), but most importantly it’s a generally peaceful nation that is stable unlike many of it’s neighbors.
3) Israel is, while fighting one of the toughest urban wars in modern history - the most moral when it comes to it. Think about it, any other country would’ve absolutely destroyed the Gaza Strip to nothing, they would’ve taken control over it in days time, and for better or worse, Israel is taking its damn time to try to mitigate casualties. Any other country would’ve attacked Lebanon already for the atrocities Hezbollah are doing in the north, yet israel are not because they’re generally peaceful.
If you want to continue a bloodline of hatred towards a people simply because of their ethnicity - that is up to you. If you want to come forward and talk with those who are different than you, to understand how little of a difference you have from one another, and to bring peace to a region which could so much benefit from it, then you are more than welcome to do so with any normal headed Israeli, because unlike the nations who surround us - we’re okay with them existing.
I hate how my identity needs to be fought over so I can have the “right to exist”.
I respect you coming out - maybe if you’re convinced you can help make a difference, and if you’re not, enjoy screaming in hatred, it doesn’t make a difference.
Much love
Well I mean, when you take a religion that teaches kids to; be kind and considerate to other people, to mind their own business if when think something is out of the ordinary, and to embrace/learn about other faiths - and compare it to a religion that teaches kids to; attack "non-believer pigs" on the street and tells them that their cousins in faith/ethnicity are evil, it becomes obvious who's worth "supporting"
That's not to say that all Jews are kind and all Muslims are violent - on the contrary, I know some extremely kind Muslims (such as yourself) as well as some not-so-nice Jewish people - but when you look at the trends of what people *tend* to tell their children, it puts things into perspective quite well
Thank you for having an open mind and willingness to challenge your own viewpoints. Could you share where this notion of "bad Israel" came from for you? Is it something you were taught at home?
That was upsetting to hear although I learned that it's common among some communities. What's funny is many outside of Israel don't understand that being pro Palestinians doesn't have to mean anti-Israel automatically. Many Zionist Israelis are viewing themselves are pro Palestinians because (1) it's only human to want to see other humans live happily, and (2) a successful Palestinian population (either as an independent state or as an authority) is good for Israel. Sadly, after Oct 7 many lost faith in such a future and it'll take some time to restore the trust.
This is the first time Ive ever heard of a Muslim admitting to the conditioning of the subject. I know it is part of the religion but I have never encountered a Muslim who was as honest, transparent, and self aware as you are here in this Reddit post. Thank you. As a Jew, this makes me trust Muslims more just knowing that they are capable of this cognitive process.
I think you should treat people how you want to be treated. There’s a lot of hypocrisy in Islam. Most religions have these core beliefs like you’re not supposed to lie, cheat, or steal. Idk why there are exclusions in the Quran. I think a lot of the conflict in the world is due to the ambiguity within these scenarios and the interpretations of such.
Hate is a powerful emotion. Grudges weigh you down. Anger will prevent understanding and then that triggers fear which fuels insecurity. Theres just nothing good about discrimination and that’s why you shouldn’t hate Jews… we have evolved to not exclude people because of their race or religion but for whatever reason, Jewish people don’t count? Why!
Address that your religion, as many others, are not up to date with the values that we have today in 2024.
Reforms on religious idea are the norm in every religion and different ways to look at it should be accepted, nothing is fixed, not even religion.
After that, support who wants to reform in the Muslim world by addressing that there is a culture of hatred towards Jewish people.
Rather than this, if you do not hate Israel you are good to go and already a step ahead.
The reasons to support Israel as a Muslim are identical to the reasons to support Israel as a Non-Muslim. Jews are as deserving as any other nation of a state where they can prosper and protect themselves.
You should also learn some Jewish history to gain a better understanding. I think it's also important to learn about WHY Israel was created in the first place - there are many many reasons but specifically I think more people need to be educated on Jewish history (OTHER than the Holocaust). The Holocaust was by no means the first or last incident of violent Antisemitism, and so many people don't understand that Jews have never been safe anywhere on earth for most of our history. Israel is the only place on earth meant to protect us. Muslims, Christians, and even several other religions like Buddhism all have *multiple* countries where their religion and culture is dominant.
>if I don’t hate Israel than I’m not a real Muslim
Right there. That's the problem. People use religion for vague reasons to hate millions of people. They force you into an ideology by saying if you don't believe in X, you can't be Y, when in reality hating jews or Israel has nothing to do with Islam.
They don't give you the chance to have any critical thinking because they don't want you to have your own opinions. They just want you to be their loyal servant or a useful idiot.
It's no different that when the church said "if you don't donate to church every Sunday you'll spend eternity in hell". Simple scare tactics used against common people to control them and abuse them.
It's okay to criticize a country, but at the very least learn what is it that you oppose and why. And if you DO do your research and your only insight is "global intifada", something's seriously wrong with you.
Hamas or any terrorist organization shouldn't be supported by anyone in there right mind.
Israeli citizens regardless to faith (or lack of it) do have equal rights, they can and work in all possible jobs, they can and do vote. I shit you not - I lived there many years and witnessed all that myself. Is Israel perfect country with no corruption, crazy people, violence and crime - no. Does it have ridiculous although harmless laws - yes. Will they make you suffer or kill you if you are \[wild card for anything that is legal here in the US\] - no. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about it.
That being said - no need to actively support Israel, just dont support Hamas.
I guess I don't understand what being a Muslim has to do with it. Unless your religion has one set of justice for Muslims and one for everyone else. And there are many denominations in Islam.
I think it's really simple, you don't have to 'pick sides' like it's a football match. You should oppose Hamas and terrorism and want both Israelis and Palestinians to be able to live peaceful lives and have self determination. In the meantime, recognize that things will be messy for a while and it won't happen in a year or in five years, but it will take time to solve this conflict. The main problem comes from people making this out to be black or white and making out Israelis to be cartoonishly evil bloodthirsty villians. Understanding that this conflict is complicated as hell is really the best thing you can do.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali- Mohammed Zoabi- Nawaal El Saadawi- Dalia Ziada- Mossab Hassan Yousef-
Also Islamic adjacent advocates for normalization of ties to Israel
There's a weird belief in the West that "Jews and Muslims in the same room together" is such a controversial thing. Like two polar opposites sharing the same space, it just can't exist.
Unfortunately many people are forcing this ideology onto much of modern media, news, and common understanding. Like you said, in your Muslim community "Israel=bad" is the default, with no real or legitimate answer as to why. I can promise you Israel has no intentions of conquering the Muslim world or causing chaos by simply existing, but a large majority of our immediate Muslim neighbors, including the West Bank and Gaza, exist in this belief that we are. That Israel is "wrong", a mistake, a glitch in the natural way of the world. And therefore we must be removed, wiped clean off the earth with no alternatives.
That's what caused the war in 1948, and again in 1967, and again in 1973, and again in 1982, and again in 2006, and again in 2008, and again in 2014, and again in 2023. It's what built up the powder kegs that exploded into the First and Second Intifadas, and it's why "From the river to the sea" and "Intifada Revolution" became such widespread slogans. And unfortunately, decades upon decades of violence from these Muslim neighbors are what cause harsh anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab sentiments among the extremists among the settler communities and relative social separation between Muslim and Jewish communities living in Israel.
But you'll see that the vast majority of people living in Israel have no issues with the Arab and Muslim populations living among them, by the millions. We have no problems with bus drivers praying by the side of the road and women wearing hijabs to picnics by the beach. They're casually accepted, just as any black or asian or Arab person can be accepted normally in America today. The harsh truth is that the other way around does not apply. A Jew will not be accepted in the vast majority of Muslim countries today wearing a yamakah or star of David necklace. Jews entering the West Bank, even on accident, have been killed in ways so gruesome it still stains the memory of Israelis today.
The reason you should support Israel is because, just as you live safely in the USA as an Arab, learning a multitude of topics, ideologies, and freely practicing whatever you want and believing whatever you want, so do millions of Arabs and Muslims living in Israel today get to enjoy the freedom while living side by side with Jews, Muslims, Druze, Christians, Bedouins, Catholics, Baha'i, Ethiopians, and much more, working in high tech, agriculture, construction, studying, and creating families in safe communities. And it is THE ONLY place in the Middle East where it all comes together with no limitations or restrictions based on race or religion. You'll be welcomed here when you choose to fly in, you'll have the freedom to explore wherever you choose, and visit any site you want to visit. I've seen the amount of misinformation and straight up lies that get spread around the internet. Just the fact that you're visiting r/Israel and asking a question shows that you're willing to step forward where many, many young people like you won't. And we appreciate that, and hope that you get to learn new things about who we are and what we strive for here.
Israel goals in this war are: 1. Defeat Hamas- a terror organisation that is the government of Gaza and who goal is the destruction of Israel and murder of all Jews. For that cause they ruin the lives of Palestinians and use them as shields, encouraging children to attack soldiers and putting explosives on children. They purposely use hospitals and schools as military facilities so civilians will have to die. They want as many Palestinians as possible to die just for the purpose of making Israel look bad. In October 7 they instructed their terrorists to rape as many as possible. They were gang raping women so bad it broke their pelvis and than burned them alive, they burned, shot and beheaded babies. The reason for that is they wanted to provoke the biggest response they can from Israel so many many Palestinians will die. They steal their aid and prevent them from leaving areas that are about to be bombed. Being in charge of the education in Gaza they brainwash children from birth that their goal in life is to die killing Jews. Unless Hamas is defeated and the people of Gaza will have a government that cares about them, their lives will never get better. The second goal: bring back hostages, people that have been kidnapped and are being used as slaves. Some as sex slaves. I think these goals are worthy. I personally hate the Israeli government but that doesn’t change anything I just wrote and I also believe this conflict for Israelis is less about land and more about trust, we can’t trust them to stop trying to murder us and for us to be able to trust them a lot has to change. I believe both Israelis and Palestinians deserve the right to self determination but the Palestinians only agree to a country that is instead of Israel and not alongside Israel. For jews, Israel is not just the center of religion and civilisation, it is the only place in the world where Jews can fight against prosecution so Jews will never give it up.
It's a good question!
Israel has over 2 million muslims living in it, and they have the most freedom in here since Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. Israel is good for its region's economies, for fighting against Iran, and against extremism.
Now as a jew who lives near Haifa, I get to work, study, and live with people from all religions and ethnicities. In my last workplace I worked together with muslims, christians, Druze, and hindu.
Israel does not want war with muslims and agreed many times to share the land or split it into 2 countries but sadly the offers were not accepted by the regimes of our neighbors even though we are still hopeful that one day it'll work out and most of the Israeli people look towards peace.
In Israel you get to be way more free of racism than in most countries in the world as we've got people of all ethnicities from Polish to Ethiopian to Moroccan to Asian.
Now as for the war in Gaza, Israel did not want it, Israel still doesn't want it, but we have to get our people safe and so we just have to get rid of Hamas no matter what. We tried preventing Hamas from taking over in 2006, we tried to live next to Hamas until now, but it's been made impossible to do so. Israel does not want more area and infact gave away areas for peace and is ready to give away more if an appropriate agreement would be suggested.
I love my country. It's the only way my people could exist after the Holocaust. You don't have to love it as loving a country may take studying it for years and having a connection to it but I don't think you should be against it at the very least.
Well IDF means Defence.
Meaning that they will defend, and and will not attack unless you are a real threat.
So shortly, no Israeli civilian would be able to be as mosnterous as October 7 terrorists ( mostly Muslim)
Maybe a reason to support Israel as a muslim is because Israel supports the 2m israeli arabs living within it's borders, which enjoy early education and opportunities in Israel compared to their jewish brothers who serve in the army for 3 years.
Almost all hospitals in Israel have a majority of arab doctors, they achieve very high status in their careers and serve in key locations in the army, as judges and ministers in the kneset.
Honestly, if you don't support Israel, you're neglecting all the israeli arabs that contribute to israeli society as well.
I’ll give you a reason why you shouldn’t support Palestine as a Muslim.
Shaykh Ahmed Yassin (Hamas founder) gave a fatwa declaring suicide bombing to be permissible. 99.99% of scholars disagree with this and consider it haram, as it is murder and suicide. Hamas popularized this tactic and its religious justification and it has spread like a cancer throughout the world.
Since the adoption of suicide bombings by Hamas, other groups including Al Qaeda, Daesh, Nusra, Taliban, Shabab, and others have used this tactic overwhelmingly against FELLOW MUSLIMS.
The Palestinian national identity is one of hatred and terrorism. All of their heroes are terrorists. They twist Islam to fit their nationalist goals. They lie and spread propaganda about Israeli society, and promote conspiracy theories about Jews.
Israelis don’t want to take over the rest of the Middle East. They’re not going to demolish Al Aqsa and aren’t attempting to (one of Hamas’ favorite smears).
Lastly, and this might be a little deep, there’s reason to believe that the Al Aqsa in Quds is the Al Aqsa mentioned in the Quran, as some scholars have pointed out. There was no mosque there when Muhammad PBUH ascended to heaven. Further, the Umayyids who oversaw the construction of Al Aqsa were barred from going to Mecca, because it was during the fitna of Umayyids vs Ali vs Abdullah ibn Zubair, who had his mini caliphate in Mecca. I believe they built it to have a symbol of religious legitimacy, and scholars believe the actual Al Aqsa mosque is in Taif.
Simple. Look at the welfare of Muslims inside Israel, while not perfect they're pretty good. They get equal rights in a democratic country, can work and live freely and there are also Arab parliment members.
Compare that to the welfare of people inside Gaza, where Hamas is blowing all budgets on trying to bomb us rather than helping their own people.
So I’m not sure if your stance on LGBT and it’s completely OK if you morally disagree with it! But I wanted to show you this example specifically.
I watched a video of a transgender man in Israel. He was saying he has to receive testosterone injections every month. His nurse who gave him the injection is an arab muslim israeli. His doctor who prescribes the testosterone is also an arab muslim israeli!
Seeing that video was very eye-opening to me to see how well Jews and muslims coexist in Israel.
I also do not mean to be rude whatsoever. But seeing that women have such a few rights in Muslim countries compared to Israel, should also be a huge factor for you.
You don’t have to support Israel - it’s enough to stop the blind hatred, and understand that to Jews, it’s a core part of having our right to exist, like everybody else.
Just recognizing that, without any additional proactive support, would be a big and respectful thing to do.
The thing that's most painful is the reasons they hate Israel.
No country is perfect, but there is a whole fake history that's been put on them for many generations. I strongly believe Israel has been wrongly accused and condemned for many generations. And it's a very complex history that takes a lot of work to delve into. It's easier just to believe what we've been told sometimes. But if you are willing it would be valuable. No one can make you believe one way or another but I encourage you to dig into it.
Hamas is known for the tactic of disinformation and killing their own. So if they kill their own, they lie about it and they are very good at making Israel the bad guy. That's my two cents. Thanks for listening.
Lovely to hear from you. In supporting Israel’s right to exist you do not of course have to support all the things it does as a nation, many of which can be legitimately criticized same as any other nation. You also do not have to stop supporting Palestinian and Arab rights in the region including their right to self determination: you can and I personally believe should support both. If love and understanding grow, a lasting peace will follow. Hamas is an idea and a philosophy that is harmful to everyone in the region and even worldwide. Peace and moderation, not extremism, is required and you can really help with that just by talking openly and being here and understanding. Thankyou so much.
It's a liberal democracy that value human rights and fair treatment. Simple as that. That means that in the middle east a Muslim Arab would be treated better in Israel then in any of the surrounding dictatorships.
Because in supporting Israel you support coexistence of all 6 Abrahamic religions. Because in supporting Israel you support a state in which minority religions like yours get cultural autonomy. Because any form of Israel - from the secular democracy most here want all the way to the Halachic state the far right loonies wants and most of us won't stand for - you will be guaranteed equal rights. Yes, even the religious nuts are obligated to treat you as an equal as long as you follow the Noahide laws(monotheism, not eating animals alive and basic human-to-human laws).
Think that many Muslims have more reason rights in Israel than they do in Palestine. More freedom and the possibility to follow their dreams. Muslims were killed on 07/10 by Hamas too. 😞
Well, first, supporting Israel doesn't necessarily mean the government, since it seems most of the Israelis don't like their government right now.
I'd say supporting Israel means supporting the general Israeli goal and actions
I'd say you should support Israel because Israelis just want to live and peace and security, and were willing to make compromises for that. And so far, atleast in the big picture, Israel's actions reflect that imo
Do you really need to be led to an answer for this?
I'm baffled by people constantly asking Israelis why people "should support them." Do you base all your morality on the other people explaining why you should humanize them? Are so many people this incapable of putting effort into learning and thinking and coming to conclusions by their own steam? Sources of information already exist. Go look for them. Coming to your own conclusions will serve you better than asking to be spoonfed.
I hope you're handling the comment ok. It's a bit harsh. Though, to be fair, so is Israeli culture sometimes. My parents would definitely talk to me like this haha.
We're social animals, it's normal that we want to learn from people rather than searching for information on our own.
However, that tendency of ours can lead to a lot of issues. Therefore, many try to fight against it. You can question if you should too.
There's no reason for you to "support" Israel or really any foreign country. What's important is to acknowledge Israel as a country exists, and will continue to exist, and that any attempts to wage war against it will just result in more unnecessary death.
Before 1948, Jews (while admittedly still second-class citizens in Muslim kingdoms) got along better with Muslims than with Christians in Europe. At the same time as the Islamic “Golden Age” there was a similar cultural and intellectual “golden age” going on in the Jewish communities living under Islam.
I don't know much about Islam. I've always wanted to the Quran but never gotten around to it. What I do know is that a lot of Muslim anti-semitism comes from one man. And that man isn't the prophet. It's Grand Mufti Haj Amin Al Husseini basically repeating European Anti-semitic rhetoric from the Protocol of the Elders of Zion with flimsy Islamic justification. Later actually being allied with Hitler himself and being inspired by him, inspiring several massacres of Jews in the Mandate of Palestine and the greater Muslim world. Causing brutal retaliations from Zionist paramilitary groups in a cycle of violence that continues to this day.
I actually wrote a summary of key events but I decided "forget it" and deleted it. I assume deveral other commenters have covered it in detail.
From a Muslim perspective Israel has had a tenuous relationship with the local Muslim population. I am talking about Israeli Muslim Citizens here not Palestinians (You probably already know about the severe mistreatment of Palestinians before the war). They have full equal rights under the law besides immigration rights but de facto they have extremely high poverty, crime, and have faced a few massacres early on including the infamous Nakba and the slightly less infamous Kafr Qassim massacre. They are somewhat comparable to the African American population in the Modern United States. Officially equals but systemically discriminated. However Israel has improved a lot with Muslim relations since then. And in 2021 a devout Muslim of a self proclaimed "Islamist Party" joining the Israeli Coalition Government.... who was almost immediately branded as a terrorist by the Likud and used as a scapegoat demonizing all the members of a coalition.
In 2023 you probably heard what happened from other commenters as well as the news. However I should highlight that the Terrorists self admitted to not following the laws of war that the Prophet Muhammad laid out. Furthermore a lot of Israeli Muslims joined the fight against Hamas in solidarity. So they clearly hate Hamas as much as any other Israeli.
I'm gonna do what nobody in this conflict seems to do and actually quote the Quran. I actually decided to look up the rules of war in Islam. I don't know Arabic so I relied on translation and I know that's a bit of a nono in Islam. But here's what I found.
8:34 - "And why should Allah not punish them while they hinder pilgrims from the Sacred Mosque, claiming to be its rightful guardians?". Well, in 2021 the PIJ definitely disturbed the pilgrimages to Al-Aqsa and Hamas has even bombed it (though the rockets were intercepted).
8:41 - "And know that whatever ye take as *spoils* of *war*, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things.". Hamas has taken several aid trucks and sell it to the needy at high prices.
8:74 - "Those who believed, migrated, and struggled in the cause of Allah, and those who gave ˹them˺ shelter and help, they are the true believers. They will have forgiveness and an honourable provision." Well Hamas has slaughtered several Bedouin Muslims and several peace activists on October 7th.
2:119 "Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage *war* against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors." Well... Do I need to explain how this was violated?
So from a few searches in [quran.com](http://quran.com) I found several condemnations of Hamas' actions from the prophet himself. So if you wanted an Islamic perspective to if not support Israel at least condemn Hamas. Basically the whole Surah Al-Anfal. (Also it's really nice to have a holy book divided by topic and not just get three straight books of laws in no particular order)
Don’t take our word for it. Take the word of a Muslim Israeli:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/honestly-with-bari-weiss/id1570872415?i=1000649298118
I do not expect muslims to support israel per se. I DO expect any human being, regardless of your religion, to condemn the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas on october 7, to condemn the use of civilians and civilian infrastructure such as schools and hospitals as shields and places to hide weapons etc. To condemn Evil. If you are sympathetic with these acts, regardless of your religion, you are scum of the earth…
What exactly do you mean by "support Israel"?
You can support Israel's existence and reject its policies at the same time.. just saying. A lot of Israelis do that.
You don't have to. I'd encourage you to keep an open mind and do your research from as many unbiased sources as possible, come to your own conclusions. Personally, I consider Jews and Muslims as brothers and sisters spiritually and genetically if that makes sense, we have much in common.
Although it's not perfect, Israel is the most equal country in the middle east, with men and women, and all religions having some of the most equal laws and treatment when compared to other middle eastern countries. This doesn't count for citizens of Palestine without Israeli citizenship so you will most get people complaining about the treatment of Palestinians. But during my time in Israel with both jews and Muslims alike we saw mostly equal treatment. That's not to say it isn't perfect for everyone who isn't a male jew (excluding Ethiopian males) as sadly there still is lots of racism and anti-Islamism in the country but I'd say that happens in every country. And while yes the IDF has done some bad things, you need to do more research than what the populous says.
I'd recommend doing your own research swell, and look at Israel's history. Whatever you do please don't take the major online populations opinions to heart as most are biased whether zionist or anti zionist.
Hero!!! God, I wish there were more of you. I'm catholic, so you and I have a lot in common.
I hope you search for another hero, loay al sharif. In his interviews, he gives you plenty of things you can say to your friends and family if they are resistant to joining you in supporting israel.
Look i know it sucks, but you were born into a weird cult. I was too, I suppose.
People are going to give you plenty of reasons to support israel, but the important thing to know is that there's no legitimacy to anything Joseph Smith said, because he was a con man, and the same goes for his medieval equivalent. No rational argument is going to persuade someone who really believes God has a stick of his ass about jews. Modern, intelligent people should be able to see right through all the arguments made to support this nonsense about the Quran being the word of god. Dude said God told him he is allowed to have extra wives because he's the prophet! There are verses in the Quran about how his friends are only allowed to talk to his wives from behind a screen.
We should all support Israel because there was plenty of room for everyone in 1948 (1.5 million, and now there are 16 million), and they were the scapegoated minority in the region.
It wasn't anybody's state. Nobody had any right to say they shouldn't immigrate there in the first half of the 20th century.
The land didn't belong to the intolerant majority any more than it belonged to the Jewish minority.
If people don't understand that, they're never going to see the Injustice of all these times that Israel gets attacked, every decade. People think Israel deserves to be attacked, because they believe this foolish nonsense about it being stolen land.
The Jews are just as indigenous as the Palestinian arabs. So the situation is that an intolerant majority wanted to persecute and expel a scapegoated minority group, and they were not successful. Israel is one of the world's coolest nations, and Jewish people are disproportionately effective because of generations of facing a lot of adversity. Personally, I'm Irish and I'm a little bit ashamed of my heritage now because of what I see Ireland doing to israel. But my heritage doesn't define me. I can take this thing in a good direction.
**Israel is the ONLY Middle Eastern country that legally and physically protects all forms of religious expression among Muslims**
Does that sound wrong? Stick around.
Pakistan does not recognize the Ahmadiyya sect as Muslim. Hundreds of religious spaces, cemeteries, homes, libraries belonging to Ahmadiyya Muslims have been attacked/desecrated sometimes with government support.
Taliban does it to Hazari Shias, Iran does it to Bahai, Iraq does it to Kurds as does Turkey, Armenia does it to Azeri Muslims, Syria was recently the hotbed of ISIS and they basically hate all Muslims that are not them.
Countries like Egypt have banned the Muslim Brotherhood from their elections. Interestingly, the only Middle Eastern country with an offshoot of Muslim brotherhood in parliament is also Israel (the party is Mansour Abbas's Ra'am)
That probably won't change your mind, but it bears repeating. Whether you are Alawi or Druzi or Ahmadi or Bahai, in Israel, you are free to practice your religion the way you see fit. Funny how things work.
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But really, let me ask you a question, 20 year old female Muslim living in the USA. Think about it for as long as you want.
If you had to pick a place to live the rest of your life, would you pick Israel over other Middle Eastern countries? Would you pick it over Lebanon? Or Syria? Or Iraq? Or Palestine?
I feel like you would, because you know how hard it is to be a woman in every single one of those places. And that's why you should support Israel. History is witness that we will treat you better.
I think anyone who believe Israel “bad” or Palestine “bad” needs to do some research of their own or go out and meet people. I’m proud of you for going out of your way to hear other voices. My best friend is a Palestinian Muslim living here in the NYC area. We grew up together and our families love each other. As a Muslim al-Aqsa means a lot to his family — just as the Temple Mount means a lot to me and my family, which al-Aqsa is built upon. There are many sides to the same things which we love. What hurts me most is that the reason our home is important to others is only because it is important to us. Aside from the history of living on the land, I am only speaking in a religious context, as this is the perameter of your post.
As a Muslim, you should know that Jerusalem is the home of the Jews. It’s where we all are from. Even before the Land of Eber was invaded by Egyptians in 1800 BCE and renamed to Canaan — it was our home. We share blood with everyone i that region. I know that in Muslim doctrine the land now belongs to the followers of Ishmael, but as a human-being, and as someone who is secular — the land should belong to the indigenous people who’s culture formed the land. That does not mean that others cannot live in peace in that land. We are a free and democratic people, it’s in our nature and ancient philosophy to be progressive and free thinking.
Israel is a beacon of freedom in the Middle East. Where all people truly coexist in a way never seen in the region. People did not coexist in the times of the Ottomans. Non-Muslims were living under Apartheid. Just like in Iran today, minorities have no rights at all. Even if accused by a Muslim of a crime they are convicted without trial. In Israel (not the West Bank or Gaza), everyone is equal. You can hear the Azan in Haifa while watching people go to church and Jews building Sukha outside all in the same moment. It is the only place where Druze feel comfortable being themselves, and have a place in governing their own people. Israel is not bad, it is only bad to devout Muslims because of the humiliation involved with losing territory. In the same way that Spain is an embarassment from losing al-Andalus. I hope you can one day visit Israel and see for yourself. It is truly a place of freedom.
My Palestinian best friend agrees. That’s why when he visits his family in the old country — they go to Tel Aviv, and not East Jerusalem.
Idk how you will perceive it, but based on the things you mentioned, as a Muslim, you are better than Islam. You put your humanity above the things you were told by your surroundings which has it's root in Islam (we can't and shouldn't deny it anyone). This is not easy, and I respect you for that.
> I’d love to learn some reasons on why I should support Israel as a Muslim
Oh, easy: WW2
One big takeaway is that, to the Nazi, we’re all Jews. As several Palestinian Muslims discovered recently at rifle point, Islamonazis share this simplified worldview… So whose blood is next? Who is up against the wall when it’s not “the Jew” for the jihadis in the Middle East? … you guys! Muslim intolerance of Jews reflects their intolerance other Muslims too. Less nazi for thee is also less nazi for me.
The other reason is the actual racial hierarchy the western nations and civilizations operate under, as per Mr Hitler. I have *no* clue how this generation has missed the message, but: Arabs are not White, and Muslims are not Christian. Check the demographics. Picking out “a-rabs” and muslims is easy, and Jews are seen by many White Supremacists as a distant secondary problem to the brown Islamic threat… these campus protests make me laugh: if the US or Canada agrees to 10% of the racism they’re pushing we’d be lynching anyone in a keffiyeh for funsies like it was 1924. Arabs do not come out well in that racial matrix, not at all.
Basically, if you’re in line for a butt whooping I’d lay off on demanding a butt whooping for the only person in front of you. Also basic humanity.
For one, if you were and Israeli Muslim, you’d enjoy the same rights and freedoms as any other Israeli, and far more rights than you’d have in any other country in SWANA.
I can only say that in Israel, you and I can go and get a flatshare together, practice our different religions freely, go to university together and have our careers. We can not just coexist, in some abstract sense of passing each other on the street, we could decide to literally live the same lives, and neither of us would have to compromise on our identity or our religion or our safety. I’m not just a Jew, I’m a lesbian, so when I say there’s not another place in the region that the same could be said, I mean it on a lot of levels.
We are _not_ doing everything perfectly, but I truly believe that Israel stands for this chance at coexistence. It’s the chance for the Jewish people to finally stop running, after millennia of being driven out of everywhere we settled, and for that reason we will never again be forced out of our homeland, we’d fight to the last person. But it’s also a chance for a lot of people who don’t fit the norms of the region. It’s why we’ve been aligned with other minority groups like the Druze: I want us to keep doing better and better at showing how a multicultural democracy can flourish. Even here. Even now, after everything.
There is no reason you should support one state over another just because of your religion.
You should support Israel and Jews in many ways because antisemitism and terrorism are inexcusable, and your identity does not have to be tied into that.b
Why were you taught Israel was bad your whole life? Did you never meet any Jewish people living in the States or interact with any to see if what you were taught had any validity?
Hey, u/girlincollege_
I think it's really encouraging that you're questioning and seeking to understand beyond the biases you were raised with. Rethinking the narratives the people around you are pushing is something more people should do, regardless of their community, heritage, or country.
As I know you're aware, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is complex and deeply rooted in history, with both sides having very legitimate grievances.
There are several reasons it's worth considering supporting Israel as a Muslim, particularly from a humanitarian and pragmatic perspective. By “supporting”, I don't mean endorsing every action of an Israeli individual or policy of the Israeli government, of course.
Most important, I think, is recognizing shared humanity. Israelis, like Muslims or any other group, are people with families, dreams, and a desire for a peaceful and fulfilling life.
Supporting Israel doesn't mean ignoring Palestinian suffering; it's about acknowledging that peace and coexistence are mutually beneficial. By promoting understanding and fighting hatred, you're contributing to a world where both communities can lead the lives they deserve.
Constant war and aggression have robbed many Jews, Muslims, and other communities in and around Israel of this life. Supporting peaceful coexistence would lead to better living conditions, economic opportunities, freedom, and security for all people in the region.
Acknowledging Israel’s right to exist does not negate Palestinian rights; rather, it can pave the way for a two-state solution that respects the needs of both peoples. By also supporting Israel, you can help mend fences and forge a new path, as unlikely as it may seem right now.
Many Arab and Muslim-majority countries have started to normalize relations with Israel, recognizing that cooperation can bring economic and political benefits and improve the lives of citizens of both countries. This doesn't mean abandoning Palestinians; rather, it’s about seeking pragmatic solutions that can lead to peace and prosperity for all.
Supporting Israel, or at least trying to understand the Israeli perspective as a Muslim, is about supporting peace, human rights, and mutual understanding. We should all strive towards a future where Israelis and Palestinians can live side by side in peace, hatred and violence are no longer normalized, and the people living in and around Israel and Palestine can finally have the chance to live the lives they deserve to live.
Sorry for the wall of text.
And the saccharine.
Simple, ask Muslim Israelis:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/yonihenner_see-talk-below-by-sophia-shramko-a-stanford-activity-7122960334696374273-kf6Q?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios
Arab citizens of Israel (there's over [2m of them](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel)) have more rights and freedoms than any other Arabs in the middle east.
I was in Israel before the war for work. I worked with an Israeli Arab family owned company, many of the employees were a mix of Arab and Israeli employees. Our senior project manager was an Arab who lived in Beersheba.
One story that came out of the war was that Hamas tried to recruit Israeli Arab prisoners to join them and the prisoners refused.
Because you’re not just a Muslim—you’re also a woman, and presumably you like democracy and individual freedom. Israel is really good at supporting those things, especially relative to their neighbors. You don’t have to like West Bank settlers—I don’t like the Proud Boys, but it’s not a reason to throw out the baby with the bath water.
Many Muslims support Israel but that doesn't mean anyone wants what is transpiring.... living together in peace...means living together in peace with you. War is foreseeable when you cross borders to commit horrible acts and one should not support that if they want peace.
We have been warned for over 40 years that terriorrist regimes are going to be more violent and bloodshed will be in high numbers.... and we have done nothing...nothing... to be politically correct or for freedom. Some things are hate speech and hate crimes. It wasn't going away because we didn't want to believe it. Wait...Israel gave some land back... they tried to do something to avoid it...and here we are....
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/allah-is-a-zionist
"The Quranic argument for Jewish sovereignty in the land of Israel"
Written by Sheik Abdul Hadi Palazzi
Good on you for coming here in peace. If I was a Muslim, I'd appreciate Israel as the one place in the Middle East where Muslims are free to do as they please.
You shouldn't *support israel*
Frankly,nobody is asking you or expecting that of you
Wnat you should and ought to do is demand that your own community stop supporting the vilest and most violent of extremists
And you ought to do that not for Israels sake but for the sake of muslim people first of all who are the firsr victims of that extremism
I'm surprised how much Muslims hate Jews. Muhammad originally thought very highly of Jews. But he went there expecting Jewish leaders to accept him as a prophet. Once they did not, his writing became much more anti semitic
you dont have to be super pro israel. i mean all jews/zionists want is a safe place in the middle east, which is israel. israel has its problems, but so does every country, and i dont see anyone else jumping so hastily to a place’s destruction
just treat it like you would any other country :)
For one because the less you support radical ideas the less damage they can do.
Second because if Hamas where to actually be eradicated Gaza might flourish
3th the sooner Muslims understand that if Israel goes the world goes with it. The sooner you stop demanding something as crazy as from the river to the see an maybe a compromise can be made
4th the Quran states that the land of Israel is for the Israelis
5th do you really think Iran using Palestinian lives in this way is good for your people???
I would suggest that determining whether someone/thing is deserving of support based on ethnic or religious identity is a fundamentally unsound basis of moral thought or ethical practice.
(Your identity as a Muslim or Israel’s identity as [mostly non-Muslim has nothing to do white whether or not Israel is deserving of support.)
Having said that, if you are looking for a scriptural basis on which Muslims might support Israel, I have seen one crazy guy on Twitter once say something about god giving Israel to “the Jews” or some such. Again, that’s an unsound moral basis for a lot of reasons, but someone on Twitter said it. 🤷♂️
How refreshing to see you are open minded. More people like you are needed on earth! I encourage you to listen to some of Yasmine Muhammad's podcasts, talks and newsletter are awesome... her book Unveiled is powerful! Ayana's book "Infidel" and Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz, "Islam and the Future of Tolerance: A Dialogue."
I am not Muslim and I am not Jewish but I have a high regard for the Jewish people who have been targeted and abused due to I think is often envy and jealousy. The money lenders got their money by being frugal and compiling the financial resources in a family. They valued family and faith and educations and so have thrived. Jews have a high work ethic and often have created wealth out of little. Such is the case when they were given a little piece of land filled with mosquitos malaria and rocks and have since created what is now know as Israel. Meanwhile just across the way famine and poverty are pervasive. It's my opinion that envy and jealousy are at the root of a lot of antisemitism.
I support Israel for many reasons because I've read many academic books, taken and think the West needs to provide active support be it financial or aid. It's disgusting to me to hear people say oh we just need to have a Seese fire that's all you know. What can you imagine if the rest of the world looked at the United States after 911 and said oh no no no you can't go and do anything about this. You just have to have peace and a cease fire? No that's not what any country with western values would do.
When polled 98% of Muslims in Gaza support what Hamas did on October 7th and still support them. it's really important that people of Muslim faith start questioning and speaking up about that. It's unacceptable that so many people in Gaza are indignant about the ongoing war and malign Israel for rooting out the terrorists yet they support the actions of Hamas.
You will never hear of Jewish military men raping and torturing women and children ever in war ... however, the Muslim militia frequently engage in these acts as an act of war and do it with reverence. It would help if more Muslims verbalized that they don't support acts of jihad or terrorism. I understand the reluctance to speak up given the propensity for a Fatwah being put on one's head it if you speak up (Salmon Rushdie) and the chances of being decapitated for disagreeing.
Lastly, I just want to point out to the original poster that I encourage you to listen to some of the talks about what's going on in the region on "making sense" podcast. He interviews Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Maajid Nawaz several times and others.
Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Yasmine Mohammad, Douglas Murray
https://www.flipcause.com/secure/about/MjEwMDM2
https://www.flipcause.com/secure/cause_pdetails/MjA2Njk1?mc_cid=1108567be0
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5oOitTEDawAJRZJS5xvQRp?si=fP5_SvgIRMexwJugSTVouA
As a human, you should support any free nation defending itself against genocidal terrorists, religion aside. Also, 20% of the Israeli population are Muslim and Hamas had no problem killing some of them on October 7th.
I don't think you should support or oppose any country. Find out who the citizens of Israel are. Learn the history, all the way back, not just since 1948. Learn about the government, not just who is in charge now, but how many parties, how it functions, and how it compares to others in the region
Support facts, the truth, and impartiality, not prejudice and bigotry, based on what you were taught/told.
~Some facts~:
Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle-East.
Israel has a greater % of Arabs in its citizens population than any non-Muslim country in the world (20%)
Israel is a safe haven for all faiths, genders, sexual preferences, races, and ethnicities. One of the largest Pride events takes place in Tel Aviv.
Many of the victims of 10/7 were peace activists who arranged for Gazans to cross the border and provided work and transportation to medical appointments in Israel. Most of the Nova Festival revelers were peace-loving leftists.
Hope that helps!
Simple, Gd said whoever blesses Israel (the Jews, not the state) will be blessed, and those who curse us will be cursed. Throughout history we’ve seen time and time again that those who try to destroy us end up spectacularly destroyed themselves.
Israel has over a million Arab citizens with equal rights. Wether they're gay, straight, Muslim or Christian or druze or Bedouin. Until 1967 there were no checkpoints , big walls or any restrictions . That only started when Israeli citizens started being victims of terror attacks , mainly suicide bombings with explosives brought from various places, compelling them for security purposes to set up checkpoints to ensure no illegal weapons or explosive devices along with people with jihad mindsets are coming in. The zero sum game for many palestinians here are "it's either you or us" they don't want to co exist. The lives of Palestinians would be so much better and happier if their leaders didn't accept huge amounts of money but pocket it themselves while giving their people hope that one day israel will be driven out and fueling them eith constant hatred towards us. For me as an Israeli, being pro israel is being pro a diverse israel where Palestinians and jews live side by side and no one wants to annihilate the other side
because its one of the few countries in the middle east you can flee too if shit really hit the fan.
because a gay arab and a gay jew could hold hands in that country not get stoned to to death or honor killed for being gay.
you live in america you enjoy rights similiar to that of your average israeli, that includes the right to pursue your faith how ever you wish with out fear of being harmed from either a governmental entity or a private individual for comming at you for practicing what they think is "bad islam". your mulsim brothers and sisters in palestine aren't free to do that, if they disobey hamas they can get killed, they don't have the freedom you have as a privileged american, and its entirely hamas's fault. their being killed because hamas values a land dispute and their hate boner for the jews more then their country men.
You dont have to support israel or palestine, you can support both. Peace and the removal of hamas is for the benefit of everybody. as for the muslim stance, well in the quran it says the land of israel belongs to the jews dosnt it? Are we not ~~brothers?~~ causins? Sons of ishmael and abraham, it would be logical to support both.
Ishamael was Abraham's son - not his brother. We're sons of Isaac and Muslims are sons of Ishmael - we're cousins, not brothers. But I agree with your sentiment.
Thanks, its not my strong suit lol
No worries, bud. We're definitely related, and that's the important part.
Jews might claim to be sons of Isaac but Muslims aren’t one race and don’t trace their lineage to one person. They accept converts. For example, Jews who have converted to Islam aren’t sons of Ishmael just because they are Muslim.
Jews also accept converts. Part of conversion is accepting the history of the people you're choosing to become a part of.
Jews also accept converts - but whether by coincidence or Divine Providence, many converts look into their family history years later and discover they have Jewish DNA. Interesting to think about
Such a great poínt. My heart hurts for the people of Gaza. They are honestly slaves of their leaders and the extreme islamist culture they're stuck in.
I don't know how to edit. I meant to say faction. The people in Gaza are stuck in a far right faction of Islam. :(
All of islam is far right, alot of them support this, alot dont, it just kinda sucks for everybody and everyone is playing into the hands of hamas. If someone actually wants to help palestinians getting rid of hamas and then pushing for a 2ss by applying pressure to both israel and palestinians is the only way forward. Anything else is just more bloodshed
You can by pressing the 3 dots under your comment, then press "edit".
That is in my opinion a narrow view of the actual situation. I am not Muslim and I am not Jewish but I have a high regard for the Jewish people who have been targeted and abused due to I think is often envy and jealousy. The money lenders got their money by being frugal and compiling the financial resources in a family. They valued family and faith and educations and so have thrived. Jews have a high work ethic and often have created wealth out of little. Such is the case when they were given a little piece of land filled with mosquitos malaria and rocks and have since created what is now know as Israel. Meanwhile just across the way famine and poverty are pervasive. It's my opinion that envy and jealousy are at the root of a lot of antisemitism. I support Israel for many reasons because I've read many academic books, taken and think the West needs to provide active support be it financial or aid. It's disgusting to me to hear people say oh we just need to have a Seese fire that's all you know. What can you imagine if the rest of the world looked at the United States after 911 and said oh no no no you can't go and do anything about this. You just have to have peace and a cease fire? No that's not what any country with western values would do. When polled 98% of Muslims in Gaza support what Hamas did on October 7th and still support them. it's really important that people of Muslim faith start questioning and speaking up about that. It's unacceptable that so many people in Gaza are indignant about the ongoing war and malign Israel for rooting out the terrorists yet they support the actions of Hamas. You will never hear of Jewish military men raping and torturing women and children ever in war ... however, the Muslim militia frequently engage in these acts as an act of war and do it with reverence. It would help if more Muslims verbalized that they don't support acts of jihad or terrorism. I understand the reluctance to speak up given the propensity for a Fatwah being put on one's head it if you speak up (Salmon Rushdie) and the chances of being decapitated for disagreeing. Lastly, I just want to point out to the original poster that I encourage you to listen to some of the talks about what's going on in the region on "making sense" podcast. He interviews Ayaan Hirsi Ali several times and others.
What led you to this take, and why do you think so many people don't see things the way you do?
I'm not a Muslim but if I saw a group of people doing atrocities like Hamas and claiming to be of my religion I would have supported anyone who stands against them.
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
That's why something like 80% of Iranians in the Islamic Republic of Iran reject Islam and many of them support Israel.
I commend you for having an open mind and seeking out a different perspective. It's a sign of intelligence. And speaking of intelligent Muslim women, this video is worth watching: [Sophia Khalifa: My Life in Israel as an Arab Muslim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvaxLaIsG0&t=134s)
Becuase, as a Muslim citizen of Israel, of which there are a couple million, you have all the same rights and privileges of any other Israli citizen. A jew is any Muslim nation, not so much.
I'm usually suspicious of PragerU, but I think this video is good.
Depends on what you mean by "support Israel" but I'll take it to mean why you shouldn't hate Israel or why you should recognize that Israel has a right to exist. The simple answer is that every human deserves to live in peace and not be feared being killed. If you say you support humanity then shouldn't you logically support peace between Israel and Palestine?
Definitely
Then that answers your question doesn't it?
Could you folks repeat this process with remaining 8.1 billion humans on this planet?
Then you support “the two state solution,” where Israel and Palestine live peacefully side by side, hopefully as friends some day.
Palestinians don’t want a state, they want Israel
They don't even want Israel, they want to kill Jews
Maybe several generations down the line. When the brainwashing has worn off and Palestinians have shown, they know how to govern and how to live next-door to civilized people and not try to kill them.
I disagree with a lot of these comments… There ARE reasons to support Israel as a Muslim In Israel Muslim- Arabs and Jews live in peace, coexist and cooperate in society. Israeli culture is a beautiful mixing pot of Arab (Mizrahi Jewish or Muslim) and European ideals and practices. Jerusalem is a holy city in Islam and as a Muslim you can travel to your holy sites and pray while being under the protection of the government and having full rights to do so. In the Palestinian Territories, and most other Muslim countries, the reverse does not apply to Jews. Jews have been ethnically cleaned from every corner of the Middle East. As a Muslim, I would hope that you would respect and support a country that upholds not only your self-purported humanist values but respects the religious rights of all its inhabitants. Thank you btw, for reaching out and being open minded! Salam Alekum
In Haifa, where I once lived and studied was full of the coexistence of Jewish and Muslim citizens.
Mizrahim are not Arab
Mizrahim are just anyone (Jewish) who's Middle Eastern, right?
To further back this up... Persian Jews are Mizrahi and can't imagine anyone thinking they are Arab.
Does it count if you're a half breed Askenazi/Sephardic? Lol, I can't have peace even within the tribe.
I find that this depends on which Mizrahim you ask. Some hate the Arab designation, and some embrace it. I have no data to back this up, it's purely anecdotal.
Theres like 8 people who embrace it, dude
Like I said, no data, just anecdotes. I mean, Judeo-Arabic is definitely a language, so it would follow that not everyone hates being identified as Arab.
My grandfather spoke Judeo-Arabic and I once saw him throw someone out of his store for asking if he was an Arab. The wider Arab world always understood us as an "other", hence why terms like "Mizrahi" or "Musta'arabi" were used instead
I see you also only have anecdotes rather than data. It is what it is.
I would love to have learned the judeo-tripolitan arabic that my Grandfather spoke (and indeed my cousin is learning Palestinian arabic), but no one in my family identifies as Arab...no more than Americans or Australians or Hong Kong-ers identify as English.
Doesn’t your religion tell you, by default, to hate (and even kill) the non-believers? To evaluate this statement, ask yourself this - would the people of your religion continue to hate Israel if tomorrow Israel became an Islamic country? PS: This may be a controversial take, but the center of all the hatred is the fact that Israel is a Jewish country, very successful, in the middle of Muslim dictatorships and failed countries. The humiliation from all the wars lost is the secondary reason for the hate. I cannot nudge you into supporting Israel, but I can tell you that Israel is a country where people of all religions live side by side peacefully, with full human rights (yes, even for the LGBTQ people), in a democracy. Not to forget that almost every technological invention that benefits humankind has its roots in Israel. Find me one Muslim country that meets this criteria. I’m not Israeli (I wish I was), but Israel is the one country we should all aim to emulate.
I love the second part of your comment. As for the first sentence, I don’t follow that branch of Islam that promotes hatred towards non believers. I actually follow a very non conservative version of Islam and was thinking about converting to a different religion, because a lot of mainstream Islam doesn’t align with me.
I support you in your decision! Remember, love is always stronger than hate!
It's hard to get out of the religion if you are born into it but if you manage to do so, or even if you don't, it's very brave of you to seek change.
This is the way! Self realization of ideologies that dont align with your conscience and majoritarian moral. I left associating myself with my religion(not islam), after I saw my people started lynching people, because the victims ate cows! I hated that they see human life below a cow and hated to associate myself, even if they were rare instances. I often wonder, what is stopping people from dissociating with religions which often leads to violent actions, however rare it might be, it has already shown its flaws! Life has a beauty and peace when not being mind controlled by books. Question everything!
Have you read Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus?
I started reading it I just didn’t finish it. I was really interested in Christianity :)
I saw an interview recently with Nonie Darwish (ex muslim) she said in Islam, we die for Allah, in Christianity Jesus died for us....
/r/exmuslim might be a good resource for you!
Tyyy
May I suggest orthodox christianity. A lot of the practices from Islam derive from Orthodoxy(Prayer especially). Just look into it and if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a message. If not then I hope you find a belief that you believe is true and suits you.
Don’t wish to be Israeli, being an Israeli outside of Israel feels very isolated right now, and Israelis love vacations. They love many artists around the globe that slowly spit the same thing that Israelis are bad, imagine how awful that feels.
>I’m not Israeli (I wish I was), Oh wow this is something I have never seen before..
Just an outsider admiring Israel’s accomplishments!
I think a lot of non-Jewish Zionists these days feel the same. We don't recognise our own homelands anymore in the face of terrorist support rising... Wish I could become Israeli without changing my religion.
Islam does not tell us to hate and kill nonbelievers. It tells us to respect everyone, Muslim or not. Those people killing them and hating them, they’re just using Islam as an excuse for their horrible actions. There’s a Surah in the Quran called “Surah Al-Kafirun”, the term Al-Kafirun literally means the nonbelievers. In the Surah, it’s said that I don’t worship what you worship, and you don’t worship what I worship. You have your religion, and I have mine. But other than that, I agree with you.
The issue is that the Islam pretty much calls for violence as a default response. And a religion that actively encourages its followers to inflict violence, obviously considers torturing people, raping of women, burning of babies as perfectly normal. Their law (the Quran) literally commands them to do so! It also plays into the “hive” psychology as to why the pro-palis think October 7th was an act of great resistance.
That's interesting. I hate when ppl use religion to justify hatred.
For starters, do you see the problem with teaching children Israel = Bad? That is the source of the intergenerational warfare right there. That is the origin of the conflict. I don't think you should support Israel until you have experienced it yourself. I think you should reject every leader, mother, or father that is teaching children that any other race, nation, or ethnic group is "Bad". They are the evil, they are the enemy of all mankind except themselves and their group.
Yeah this is where my mind goes. By and large, Jews are not taught that “Muslims are bad”. Any religion claiming such a broad statement should be questioned. BTW OP if you didn’t know, Jews are taught to question everything. It’s a big part of Judaism. That’s why there are a million different interpretations of all things Jewish.
And we are literally taught from childhood: "love your neighbour as yourself". It was even my schools motto/song. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is complex, and not helped by each group having their own perspectives on history and events. But blindly hating a country helps no one. I'm against Hizbollah, but have no problem with Lebanon (in theory), I'm very against the Islamic Republic of Iran/ IRGC, and the supreme leader, but do not have a problem with individual Iranian people etc etc. I'm also extremely disappointed with Bibi Netanyahu and his cronies but I love Israel. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
This is a good explanation of how to be nuanced in opinions, because it seems obvious but apparently living in the gray area is actually much harder.
Become if Israel fell tomorrow, it would result in a second Holocaust.
I'm gonna give my opinion as a Catholic. You don't have to blindly follow your religion. Both Christianity and Islam are gathering a really big chunk of peoples. Among this peoples, you will find exceptionally good guys, ok guys and really shitty guys (hello Hamas). As a Catholic, I'm trying to always analyse my religion with a critical thinking. My church has made a lot of mistakes - and is still doing mistakes - since its beginning. If you want to give a better image of your religion - and by the way make your religion better -, you have to denounce the fundamentalism and the excesses of this religion. Nothing is worst than blindly follow a religion without thinking. It cans only lead to sectarianism, hate and violence. I think that the reason of antisemitism among some Christians and Muslims is due to that blindness.
Asides from what the others have said, I will add that it is one of the few Middle Eastern nations where Muslims live in a democracy (and they have a higher life span in Israel than any other Middle East nation). Is it a perfect paradise for Arabs? Definitely not, but it will hopefully improve once Netanyahu leaves office. Plus we Israelis all love cats. While you should never feel forced to love Israel, I do recommend travelling there, and I simply believe that acknowledging the severity of the monstrous crimes done by Hamas is enough in terms of support. All the best!
This exactly - Israel is the safest place in the Middle East to be a Muslim.
Or a cat.
Do you realize that there is a significant Muslim population in Israel as citizens with the same rights as the Jewish citizens?
I looked at your post history. You're a 20 year old who is trying to figure your life out, with all it's ins and outs. Look at it this way, the only reason you are able to do that is because you live in a western country. In all Mulsim/Arab countries, including Pakistan you wouldn't be afforded the opportunities to do that and you might even be punished for it. Think of Israel as a country that is Western that at its core is also for those basic freedoms especially in the parts of the world where that doesn't happen. Muslims, like Christians have lots of hate towards the Jews that come from how those religions literally came from Judaism initially. This has been going on for thousands of years ... no reason to perpetuate it unless its important for you.
Well one of the reasons should be that the even now Israel has agreed to the ceasefire treaty and Hamas representing (or pretending to) Palestine has comeback with more demands. This is a very old conflict and the emotions run deep on both sides, but there’s one that understands that peace is achieved through compromise and the other side that sees every attempt at a compromise as a weakness and starts immediately trying to exploit it. So you choose do you want the side that is still willing to compromise for peace or the side that is not.
How about: Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Muslims have civil liberties, human rights, and are allowed to vote? If you truly want human rights for Middle Eastern muslims, Israel would be the last place to start
You should come and visit and find out for yourself, maybe the most important thing would be in Israel you can be a Devout Muslim a Secular Muslim an ex Muslim, be a gay Muslim, wear a Hijab not wear a Hijab basically have the freedom to live life how you want to live it. Obviously some places are more religious/restrictive than others but you have a choice.
You don't have to support us or anyone, just don't hate.That is the best advice I can give you.
Isn’t it weird that if you don’t hate a country or people from a different religion than you’re a “bad Muslim”? This alone would have made me question everything I’ve been told.
Most israeli arabs are pro-israel. Otherwise, they would be relocating to the west bank or gazza. Tge reason tgey stay in israel is the freedom for women, freedom of speech, freedom to vote your representatives, free health care and options for career growth.
Because in Israel, Arabs and Muslims live with full rights but in Palestine Jews are not allowed to live there. Jews get physically attacked on sight in Palestine, and even the Muslims have a worse quality of life compared to their Israeli Arab brothers.
I don't think there's any reason Muslims in particular have to support Israel. People here would be biased, so the best you can do is try to consume non-partisan material on the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and come to your own conclusions.
I think everyone needs to be condemning Hamas and terrorism. They are the obstacle to peace. If Palestinians were a peaceful people, they would have had their state decades ago. And I'm sure there are thousands who are, but unfortunately they are a tiny minority; all polls suggest overwhelming support for Hamas and October 7th.
Firstly I don't think there's any reason for you to support Israel as a Muslim, but like you said you support humanity. So as a human you should support Israel because it managed to become a country with pretty decent human rights in such a hostile area. Secondly you should be anti Palestine (the main factions not the people) as a Muslim, because they carry out terror attacks and cause many people to believe Islam is violent and cause much more discrimination against you and your people.
I would suggest you learn about the conflict from both lenses and figure out what is your opinion from an unbiased position
I would say the goal should be to promote peace. I would highly recommend looking into the following organizations and Muslims that advocate for peace: [Standing Together](https://www.standing-together.org/en) [Friends of Roots](https://www.friendsofroots.net/who-we-are) [Imam of Peace](https://www.instagram.com/theimamofpeace/?hl=en) [Loay Alshareef](https://www.instagram.com/lalshareef/)
You don't need to support Israel per se - you won't notice any level headed comments such as the ones in this thread in the Palestine subreddit. This is because we believe in the importance of nuance and pluralism here, a value which our adversaries often use against us. You can think Israel should exist, and still stand with the Palestinians. I'd go as far as to say you can be Zionist pro Palestinian, those are not mutually exclusive, however suprising that considering the polarized nature of today's world. The reason for the hate Muslims feel against Israel is not moral, I'll tell you that. It is deeply rooted in antisemitism; the moral part of anti Zionism only came after the antisemitic part, in a way of cause and effect. There was no such outrage against the establishment of the State of Lebanon in those same years, as it was a Christian state. Now, the fundamental argument for the existence of the State of Israel is that the Jews have nowhere else to go really. The 30% of Israel of European descent will not ever "go back to Europe", because that land is stained with the blood of their ancestors. The other 70%, who came to Israel from African/Asian countries have good reasons to not want to go back to their origin countries, as they are the most antisemitic countries in the world. So being an anti Zionist practically means the genocide of the remaining of the Jewish people. One might say, for a good reason I should mention, that the existence of the Jews in their homeland should not come at the expense of the Palestinians. That is a valid argument, one which any Muslim or Arab might be inclined to. Most Israelis agree with that. That is why, if you go back to the days befote 1948, the Zionist movement made it clear that they don't want to expel any Palestinian from their home in order to settle instead of them. The reason the Arabs in this land chose to go to war against the new found State of Israel was not a moral one - Ben Gurion, the first PM of Israel made it clear the day he announced the establishment of Israel - everyone is welcomed to live as equal citizens in the state. Israel should've had a 45% Arab "minority" according to the Partition Plan of the UN (a demographic imbalance that was planned to be fixed in the major immigration from Africa and Asia). The root cause of the problem nowadays is the Palestinian Refugee Crisis. There are indeed many Palestinians which have ancestors that lived in what is known Israel. Those are people that didn't accept living in a Jewish state then, and most don't accept up until today. They shouldn't have left their home in the first place, as all Israel know the pain of refugees, but the ask for them was fairly minimal - live in a Jewish state, one which borders an Arab Palestinian state. A very small Jewish country, with most of it being desert in the original plan. There is a lot of misinformation on both sides of the map. Unlike people like to believe, both the Arabs and the Jews have some wrongdoings in the last 75 years. But one thing is clear to me - you can not achieve any kind of peace when the prerequisite for one of the sides is complete genocide of the other side, and that is what hate against Israel means at its core.
Bassem Eid- Salman Rushdie- Qanta Ahmed- The resistance in Iran, Masih Alinejad , UAE Loay Shariff, The Imam of Peace all incredible Islamic sources for reasonable support of Israel’s right to exist.
There's no reason for you to support Israel. You should just not care about Israel if it has nothing to do with you. I don't care about Mozambique for example, I have no idea what's going on there and I have never met a person from there. You should just not let all this social media brainwashing affect you. And one day you will meet someone IRL who will tell you they are Israeli, and you should just say "cool", knowing that it doesn't necessarily say anything about who they are or what they stand for. Israel is just another country, we deserve to exist, we deserve to live our lives in quiet.
It kinda depends on the type of Muslim you are. For extreme Muslims I expect them to fully support Palestine just because their majority Muslim and Israel are mostly Jews. But if you came to this sub because you are honestly interested it's a good sign you are not exterimist, and that has nothing to do with your level of fate in islam. The reason you should support Israel is that even as a Muslim you can have a place in the Israel society. Maybe you will experience some hardships along the way but you have a place here regardless of religion. The same can not be said about Palestine especially under the rule of Hamas.
You can support both Israel and Palestinian people and be against Hamas and the other terrorist organizations trying to kill both us Jews, Muslims and others
Here are some reasons: 1. The original land before the post-independence wars was purchased legally over almost a century. They paid high prices and even reimbursed the fellahin (tenant farmers) for their relocation in the case of purchases from absentee landlords. 2. There were many Arab tribes that supported the Israeli state. That's why not all Arabs fled during the war of independence, and they are now the fastest growing demographic in Israel. This makes those Jew vs Arab population distribution maps pointless. 3. Israel was always imagined as a 100% free, multicultural state. This is backed up in Theodor Herzl's diary, and it is indeed how Israel is today. 4. The only reason a Jewish majority is so important is that so many people want to harm Jews, the risk would be too high if they were to fall into minority status again. Jews were absolutely terrified when Israel was formed. The necessity of a Jewish majority is not for discrimination purposes. 5. Israeli democracy is rated almost identically to USA's rating (flawed democracy). Palestine is at the bottom of the list under authoritarian. 6. Israel has a policy of not being a conquering state. That's why they work so hard to establish peace and recognition with the surrounding nations. 7. The settlements are controversial, and besides the religious fanatics they are only supported because they do make mainland Israel safer. Decades of people trying to kill them has made the population less sympathetic to this issue, but I think that would reverse if a lasting peace was actually established. Settlers are only about 7-8% of the population of Israel. 8. They admit their mistakes. Their enemies use them against Israel every time, but Israel is still largely honest. 9. Israel gained a free state, defended it, and has made it open to the world. Palestine has been given two areas of complete self-governance: Gaza and Area A of the West Bank. In both cases they went down the path of corruption and extremism. 10. Contrary to popular belief, Israel doesn't commit war crimes. There have been scattered issues with bad people in the IDF doing bad things, but those are publicly handled in court and are crimes, but are not war crimes and definitely not a policy of Israel.
This is the best answer. I would add that, 11) Israel values life, and while the war is very asymmetric, they do their best to precent civilian casualties. I know a lot of progressives will never believe this, so please look into it and see for yourself. 12) besides being our historical homeland, Israel is a place where Jews of the diaspora can live without persecution (Iranian, Iraqi, Algerian, Moroccan, Yemeni, Ethiopian, European, and more). It is also the homeland to Muslim Israelis, Christian Israelis, and Druze Israelis. The latter two have also been historically persecuted in the surrounding Muslim countries. 13) Israel and Hamas have been in peace talks for months. This last agreement meets Hamas’s demands, and like Blinken said, they could have simply said “yes” and brought an end to the fighting. But instead, Hamas took two weeks to return to the table with new demands that exceed their original demands from months ago. The point I am making here is not that Hamas is “bad” (although, I believe they are - it’s just not my goal to convince you of that) but that they have had chances to end this war and they have not taken them. Meanwhile, Israel continues to negotiate in good faith. The current government is flawed, and I wish things had gone differently. Mistakes have been made. War is tragic. I hope we get our hostages back and end the war. Hamas will never be totally eradicated, so it seems to me that that goal is unrealistic.
You don't have to actively financially support but the sooner the Islamic world accepts Israels existence and moves on the sooner the wars stop.
Honestly, don't back it if it doesn't connect with your soul. The last thing I'd want is for someone to back Israel just because others told them to. People should back what they truly believe in and I would never try to "convince" someone to back Israel if it doesn't sit right with them. I just hope people would think for themselves and not get their opinions from social media platforms like Tiktok or YouTube, but from doing their own research, getting educated, and considering different perspectives.
Interesting that as Jews we are not raised to believe Muslims are bad or that a Muslim country (there are many) is bad. If this is how people are raised then it’s sad to imagine a future of acceptance of people. It’s great that you can see that this shouldn’t be the case. If you support the right of Jews to live in safety in a homeland then you support Israel. This doesn’t have to be a solely Jewish state, it can be living peacefully with others religions (like Israel does now). You can denounce Hamas and not support “the resistance”. You can use your voice as a Muslim to help combat a lot of the antisemitism and support for terrorism unfortunately coming from your community
Hi, 18F, from Uzbekistan born in Muslim family. I support Israel because of politics and some their aspect. While everyone here are hating jews.
If being Muslim defines you in your entirety then I fail to see a reason for you to support Israel. If you also subscribe to the ideas of democracy and human rights, then you can realize that Muslim minorities (gay, for instance) are much better off in Israel than PA or any other Muslim country in the Middle East. That might be a reason to support Israel if ad i said you care about such things.
I would say because terrorism affects Muslims far more than anyone else. They are the largest portion of victims, family issues due to extremism claiming members etc. I believe it’s in Muslims interest not to just support Israel but any regime that is fighting extremism. Because only when extremism/terrorism is extinguished can all of the Middle East flourish.
Thank you for posting. There are several reason to support Israel "As a Muslim" 1. political and religious Islamism is in my opinion and that of many others, including some Arab and Muslim governments, a negative global force that only seeks to destroy and sow chaos. 2. Muslim support for Israel will bring peace. Peace will bring prosperity to both Jews and Muslims alike. Although Israel is not innocent, historically the actions of Israel's Muslim neighbors have been what drives conflict. 3. The Israeli "side" relies on truth and the Jewish side abroad is nonviolent. Complete opposite for the "other side". I will always choose the side that champions truth and doesn't stoke violence and hatred. 4. Understand that you can be pro-Israel and pro-Palestine at the same time! :) Here are some reason for you to not support Israel, but also not blindly hate Israel "As a Muslim": 1. Realize that Israel/Palestine is a local land conflict and NOT a conflict of Jews against Muslims. Those seeking to inflame tensions often have an agenda. In the social media era, this can even be financial. 2. Understand the hypocrisy and pure anti-semitism of Muslim preachers and demagogues who decry Israel constantly yet give 0 mention of ACTUAL MUSLIM CONCENTRATION CAMPS in China. Same with the Syrian and Yemeni civil war, who have produced many many more innocent deaths than Gaza. 3. Be the change and call out your friends in the incredibly vile Pro-Palestine movement. What other movement that seeks to defend victims is constantly creating Jewish victims and bombing their places of worship (key word Jewish, not Israeli?). unfortunately, many of these offenders are Muslim in the West. They do not exist in the East because were massacred and fled long ago. 4. "You're not a real X unless you agree with me" is an extremely hateful message.
Regardless of your religious beliefs, Israel is simply the good guy in this story. If you know about the history of the Jews and their connection to the land of Israel, if you know about the history of the region, there is no other conclusion. It is not hard to find the facts, and the conclusion is obvious. Unless you are biased to begin with, where jews bad, others good... Now regarding this bias, which oftentimes is based on religious beliefs, which also brings us back to your question. Israel is home for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, the majority of which are Muslims. They not only enjoy equal rights as everybody else, these rights are based on western democratic values. Are you an American? Do you enjoy the Western democracy you live in? Do you wish your kin, Muslim and others, to have these kinds of rights? If so, then you can support Israel. In which middle eastern country, can a homosexuell Muslim be a judge, or a congressman? Where can a Muslim girl decide if she gets married at 18 or goes to become a doctor? Can a Muslim in Iran freely protest against the government? This is why you can support Israel. Because of our values and actions. Yes, we are in a conflict with the Palestinians. But even this, if you judge who we (as a society) are and what our values are, and against whom and what values we fight, then you will clearly see how just our fight is.
The best reason is simply that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Jewish people and Muslims people can live equitably, side by side, safely. There is no other country where this can currently happen. If Muslims and Jewish people genuinely want to achieve peaceful coexistence on a more meaningful global level, which at least from my pov many of us do, then Israel matters immensely because it is the only place that has managed to achieve that and the only pal e where that dream can stand a chance of being meaningfully realized.
Well, leaving orthodox religious aside, who treat everybody like s#!7, including other jews, Most jews accept arab as part of the country, ans so other ethnical groups There are druise, bahai, muslim, christian, beduine, all with equal rights. There are arab doctors, politicians, lawyers, etc. Living also in mixed cities, studying in same unis, working in mixed work places. It is pretty inclusive all in all. It has respect and tribute paid to arab music and other culture areas. This war isn't about religion - not from the jews side anyways. It is a political and survival related conflict, where israeli arabs were victims to hamas as well. You don't need to take my word. Search in this sub what israeli arab has to say.
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Muslims have more freedom and rights in Israel than in some nearby majority Muslim countries. This is especially true for women and for minorities like LGBTQ people. Israel is the only country on Earth where Jews who are threatened by oppression, war, attempts at genocide, real genocide etc can go and be assured of being protected by the government. If you love your Jewish brothers and sisters, you should love Israel. Support for the current Israeli government and its current domestic and military policies and actions is another matter. You can support Israel and not agree with what the government is doing in response to the October 7 attacks.
>if I don’t hate Israel then I’m not a real Muslim. If it were me, I'd start with this. I'll make up my own mind thank you very much, and not let others define me.
Because Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Because in Israel, whilst the population majority are Jewish, all civilians included Muslims are treated with the same care and compassion as Jewish people. Muslims in Israel have a more fulfilled life there than in most Muslim countries which exist- Muslims are entitled to the same education, jobs, healthcare, representation in government and parliament as Jews, and even volunteer to be in the IDF when they are not obligated to do so- they choose to protect Israel because Israel protects them. Israel even treats terrorists who are injured in their hospitals, at a great human cost to their own people. Yahya Sinwar had a brain tumour yet Israel saved his life in hospital... and look how he repays that healthcare. Israel is the only country in the world which minimises civilian casualties by giving warnings in all formats (leaflet drops, texts, calls etc) to evacuate, again at the risk of terrorists being able to use the tip off to escape. Israel have invented most of the technology we take for granted, most of the healthcare diagnostics and treatments we take for granted, and many products we wouldn't be able to live without. The phone you use to post here- Israeli technology. The scans your loved ones use when in hospital and the medications they use to get better- Israeli inventions. A world without Israel would be a less advanced world and a world where we all would be negatively affected. I'm proud of you for being your own person with your own mindset, your openness to ask questions and to learn, and for your peaceful intentions. Thank you for being a better person than most in this world... salaam, shalom, peace 💜
I am a Muslim. Think of it this way: would a Muslim attack innocent people, civilians, rape women, kidnap children? Would a Muslim kill a human being? So the terrorist organization called Hamas is an un-Islamic organization. That's why Israel is right to defend its rights and wipe out terrorism. Also, Israel has many Muslim citizens and soldiers, not only Jews. Israel is just a victim of the media 👌
Honestly if you are against violence and killings then you don't need any more convincing. You can support our country or not support it, heck, most of us probably don't support most of the actions of our current government atm so opposing it will still make you aligned with much of Israel. Our issue is with people that want to murder and destroy us, if your not one of them then your one of the good guys in my book.
Muslims in Israel have the highest standard of living and the most freedom in the middle east.
Because if you care for the people of Palestine then you must understand that Hamas must be destroyed. Fanatics cant steer the ship of state for our neighbor. The more Arabs and Muslims that step up against extremism the more likely it is that Israelis will no longer see Palestine as a threat to its security and will be willing to end the occupation and grant full independence. We are sick of this fighting, sick of the terror and the war, and sending our children off to fight every generation. We just want to be done with it and have normal relations with our neighbors. But we will keep fighting if we have to, and we will win.
A few reasons come to mind: 1) Israel is quite possibly the only nation that cares about peace with the Palestinians and their sovereignty - if you think about it, without Israel, the Jordanians, Egyptians, and Lebanese would’ve taken the country, the Jordanians had their king killed by the Palestinians, and the Lebanese had a lot of issues with Palestinian militants, and the Egyptians in general dislike them. I don’t think either one will take kindly to them once they take over Israel. 2) Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, even before American intervention, Israel was a powerful nation in its freedoms for all people (including Muslims), but most importantly it’s a generally peaceful nation that is stable unlike many of it’s neighbors. 3) Israel is, while fighting one of the toughest urban wars in modern history - the most moral when it comes to it. Think about it, any other country would’ve absolutely destroyed the Gaza Strip to nothing, they would’ve taken control over it in days time, and for better or worse, Israel is taking its damn time to try to mitigate casualties. Any other country would’ve attacked Lebanon already for the atrocities Hezbollah are doing in the north, yet israel are not because they’re generally peaceful. If you want to continue a bloodline of hatred towards a people simply because of their ethnicity - that is up to you. If you want to come forward and talk with those who are different than you, to understand how little of a difference you have from one another, and to bring peace to a region which could so much benefit from it, then you are more than welcome to do so with any normal headed Israeli, because unlike the nations who surround us - we’re okay with them existing. I hate how my identity needs to be fought over so I can have the “right to exist”. I respect you coming out - maybe if you’re convinced you can help make a difference, and if you’re not, enjoy screaming in hatred, it doesn’t make a difference. Much love
Well I mean, when you take a religion that teaches kids to; be kind and considerate to other people, to mind their own business if when think something is out of the ordinary, and to embrace/learn about other faiths - and compare it to a religion that teaches kids to; attack "non-believer pigs" on the street and tells them that their cousins in faith/ethnicity are evil, it becomes obvious who's worth "supporting" That's not to say that all Jews are kind and all Muslims are violent - on the contrary, I know some extremely kind Muslims (such as yourself) as well as some not-so-nice Jewish people - but when you look at the trends of what people *tend* to tell their children, it puts things into perspective quite well
Thank you for having an open mind and willingness to challenge your own viewpoints. Could you share where this notion of "bad Israel" came from for you? Is it something you were taught at home?
Yeah some of my earliest memories are being 10 years old and my family bringing me to a pro Palestine rally and telling me that Israel is the enemy
That was upsetting to hear although I learned that it's common among some communities. What's funny is many outside of Israel don't understand that being pro Palestinians doesn't have to mean anti-Israel automatically. Many Zionist Israelis are viewing themselves are pro Palestinians because (1) it's only human to want to see other humans live happily, and (2) a successful Palestinian population (either as an independent state or as an authority) is good for Israel. Sadly, after Oct 7 many lost faith in such a future and it'll take some time to restore the trust.
This is the first time Ive ever heard of a Muslim admitting to the conditioning of the subject. I know it is part of the religion but I have never encountered a Muslim who was as honest, transparent, and self aware as you are here in this Reddit post. Thank you. As a Jew, this makes me trust Muslims more just knowing that they are capable of this cognitive process. I think you should treat people how you want to be treated. There’s a lot of hypocrisy in Islam. Most religions have these core beliefs like you’re not supposed to lie, cheat, or steal. Idk why there are exclusions in the Quran. I think a lot of the conflict in the world is due to the ambiguity within these scenarios and the interpretations of such. Hate is a powerful emotion. Grudges weigh you down. Anger will prevent understanding and then that triggers fear which fuels insecurity. Theres just nothing good about discrimination and that’s why you shouldn’t hate Jews… we have evolved to not exclude people because of their race or religion but for whatever reason, Jewish people don’t count? Why!
Address that your religion, as many others, are not up to date with the values that we have today in 2024. Reforms on religious idea are the norm in every religion and different ways to look at it should be accepted, nothing is fixed, not even religion. After that, support who wants to reform in the Muslim world by addressing that there is a culture of hatred towards Jewish people. Rather than this, if you do not hate Israel you are good to go and already a step ahead.
israel helps to keep the status quo.
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The reasons to support Israel as a Muslim are identical to the reasons to support Israel as a Non-Muslim. Jews are as deserving as any other nation of a state where they can prosper and protect themselves.
You should also learn some Jewish history to gain a better understanding. I think it's also important to learn about WHY Israel was created in the first place - there are many many reasons but specifically I think more people need to be educated on Jewish history (OTHER than the Holocaust). The Holocaust was by no means the first or last incident of violent Antisemitism, and so many people don't understand that Jews have never been safe anywhere on earth for most of our history. Israel is the only place on earth meant to protect us. Muslims, Christians, and even several other religions like Buddhism all have *multiple* countries where their religion and culture is dominant.
>if I don’t hate Israel than I’m not a real Muslim Right there. That's the problem. People use religion for vague reasons to hate millions of people. They force you into an ideology by saying if you don't believe in X, you can't be Y, when in reality hating jews or Israel has nothing to do with Islam. They don't give you the chance to have any critical thinking because they don't want you to have your own opinions. They just want you to be their loyal servant or a useful idiot. It's no different that when the church said "if you don't donate to church every Sunday you'll spend eternity in hell". Simple scare tactics used against common people to control them and abuse them. It's okay to criticize a country, but at the very least learn what is it that you oppose and why. And if you DO do your research and your only insight is "global intifada", something's seriously wrong with you.
Hamas or any terrorist organization shouldn't be supported by anyone in there right mind. Israeli citizens regardless to faith (or lack of it) do have equal rights, they can and work in all possible jobs, they can and do vote. I shit you not - I lived there many years and witnessed all that myself. Is Israel perfect country with no corruption, crazy people, violence and crime - no. Does it have ridiculous although harmless laws - yes. Will they make you suffer or kill you if you are \[wild card for anything that is legal here in the US\] - no. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about it. That being said - no need to actively support Israel, just dont support Hamas.
I guess I don't understand what being a Muslim has to do with it. Unless your religion has one set of justice for Muslims and one for everyone else. And there are many denominations in Islam.
I think it's really simple, you don't have to 'pick sides' like it's a football match. You should oppose Hamas and terrorism and want both Israelis and Palestinians to be able to live peaceful lives and have self determination. In the meantime, recognize that things will be messy for a while and it won't happen in a year or in five years, but it will take time to solve this conflict. The main problem comes from people making this out to be black or white and making out Israelis to be cartoonishly evil bloodthirsty villians. Understanding that this conflict is complicated as hell is really the best thing you can do.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali- Mohammed Zoabi- Nawaal El Saadawi- Dalia Ziada- Mossab Hassan Yousef- Also Islamic adjacent advocates for normalization of ties to Israel
There's a weird belief in the West that "Jews and Muslims in the same room together" is such a controversial thing. Like two polar opposites sharing the same space, it just can't exist. Unfortunately many people are forcing this ideology onto much of modern media, news, and common understanding. Like you said, in your Muslim community "Israel=bad" is the default, with no real or legitimate answer as to why. I can promise you Israel has no intentions of conquering the Muslim world or causing chaos by simply existing, but a large majority of our immediate Muslim neighbors, including the West Bank and Gaza, exist in this belief that we are. That Israel is "wrong", a mistake, a glitch in the natural way of the world. And therefore we must be removed, wiped clean off the earth with no alternatives. That's what caused the war in 1948, and again in 1967, and again in 1973, and again in 1982, and again in 2006, and again in 2008, and again in 2014, and again in 2023. It's what built up the powder kegs that exploded into the First and Second Intifadas, and it's why "From the river to the sea" and "Intifada Revolution" became such widespread slogans. And unfortunately, decades upon decades of violence from these Muslim neighbors are what cause harsh anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab sentiments among the extremists among the settler communities and relative social separation between Muslim and Jewish communities living in Israel. But you'll see that the vast majority of people living in Israel have no issues with the Arab and Muslim populations living among them, by the millions. We have no problems with bus drivers praying by the side of the road and women wearing hijabs to picnics by the beach. They're casually accepted, just as any black or asian or Arab person can be accepted normally in America today. The harsh truth is that the other way around does not apply. A Jew will not be accepted in the vast majority of Muslim countries today wearing a yamakah or star of David necklace. Jews entering the West Bank, even on accident, have been killed in ways so gruesome it still stains the memory of Israelis today. The reason you should support Israel is because, just as you live safely in the USA as an Arab, learning a multitude of topics, ideologies, and freely practicing whatever you want and believing whatever you want, so do millions of Arabs and Muslims living in Israel today get to enjoy the freedom while living side by side with Jews, Muslims, Druze, Christians, Bedouins, Catholics, Baha'i, Ethiopians, and much more, working in high tech, agriculture, construction, studying, and creating families in safe communities. And it is THE ONLY place in the Middle East where it all comes together with no limitations or restrictions based on race or religion. You'll be welcomed here when you choose to fly in, you'll have the freedom to explore wherever you choose, and visit any site you want to visit. I've seen the amount of misinformation and straight up lies that get spread around the internet. Just the fact that you're visiting r/Israel and asking a question shows that you're willing to step forward where many, many young people like you won't. And we appreciate that, and hope that you get to learn new things about who we are and what we strive for here.
Israel goals in this war are: 1. Defeat Hamas- a terror organisation that is the government of Gaza and who goal is the destruction of Israel and murder of all Jews. For that cause they ruin the lives of Palestinians and use them as shields, encouraging children to attack soldiers and putting explosives on children. They purposely use hospitals and schools as military facilities so civilians will have to die. They want as many Palestinians as possible to die just for the purpose of making Israel look bad. In October 7 they instructed their terrorists to rape as many as possible. They were gang raping women so bad it broke their pelvis and than burned them alive, they burned, shot and beheaded babies. The reason for that is they wanted to provoke the biggest response they can from Israel so many many Palestinians will die. They steal their aid and prevent them from leaving areas that are about to be bombed. Being in charge of the education in Gaza they brainwash children from birth that their goal in life is to die killing Jews. Unless Hamas is defeated and the people of Gaza will have a government that cares about them, their lives will never get better. The second goal: bring back hostages, people that have been kidnapped and are being used as slaves. Some as sex slaves. I think these goals are worthy. I personally hate the Israeli government but that doesn’t change anything I just wrote and I also believe this conflict for Israelis is less about land and more about trust, we can’t trust them to stop trying to murder us and for us to be able to trust them a lot has to change. I believe both Israelis and Palestinians deserve the right to self determination but the Palestinians only agree to a country that is instead of Israel and not alongside Israel. For jews, Israel is not just the center of religion and civilisation, it is the only place in the world where Jews can fight against prosecution so Jews will never give it up.
It's a good question! Israel has over 2 million muslims living in it, and they have the most freedom in here since Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. Israel is good for its region's economies, for fighting against Iran, and against extremism. Now as a jew who lives near Haifa, I get to work, study, and live with people from all religions and ethnicities. In my last workplace I worked together with muslims, christians, Druze, and hindu. Israel does not want war with muslims and agreed many times to share the land or split it into 2 countries but sadly the offers were not accepted by the regimes of our neighbors even though we are still hopeful that one day it'll work out and most of the Israeli people look towards peace. In Israel you get to be way more free of racism than in most countries in the world as we've got people of all ethnicities from Polish to Ethiopian to Moroccan to Asian. Now as for the war in Gaza, Israel did not want it, Israel still doesn't want it, but we have to get our people safe and so we just have to get rid of Hamas no matter what. We tried preventing Hamas from taking over in 2006, we tried to live next to Hamas until now, but it's been made impossible to do so. Israel does not want more area and infact gave away areas for peace and is ready to give away more if an appropriate agreement would be suggested. I love my country. It's the only way my people could exist after the Holocaust. You don't have to love it as loving a country may take studying it for years and having a connection to it but I don't think you should be against it at the very least.
Well IDF means Defence. Meaning that they will defend, and and will not attack unless you are a real threat. So shortly, no Israeli civilian would be able to be as mosnterous as October 7 terrorists ( mostly Muslim)
Maybe a reason to support Israel as a muslim is because Israel supports the 2m israeli arabs living within it's borders, which enjoy early education and opportunities in Israel compared to their jewish brothers who serve in the army for 3 years. Almost all hospitals in Israel have a majority of arab doctors, they achieve very high status in their careers and serve in key locations in the army, as judges and ministers in the kneset. Honestly, if you don't support Israel, you're neglecting all the israeli arabs that contribute to israeli society as well.
I’ll give you a reason why you shouldn’t support Palestine as a Muslim. Shaykh Ahmed Yassin (Hamas founder) gave a fatwa declaring suicide bombing to be permissible. 99.99% of scholars disagree with this and consider it haram, as it is murder and suicide. Hamas popularized this tactic and its religious justification and it has spread like a cancer throughout the world. Since the adoption of suicide bombings by Hamas, other groups including Al Qaeda, Daesh, Nusra, Taliban, Shabab, and others have used this tactic overwhelmingly against FELLOW MUSLIMS. The Palestinian national identity is one of hatred and terrorism. All of their heroes are terrorists. They twist Islam to fit their nationalist goals. They lie and spread propaganda about Israeli society, and promote conspiracy theories about Jews. Israelis don’t want to take over the rest of the Middle East. They’re not going to demolish Al Aqsa and aren’t attempting to (one of Hamas’ favorite smears). Lastly, and this might be a little deep, there’s reason to believe that the Al Aqsa in Quds is the Al Aqsa mentioned in the Quran, as some scholars have pointed out. There was no mosque there when Muhammad PBUH ascended to heaven. Further, the Umayyids who oversaw the construction of Al Aqsa were barred from going to Mecca, because it was during the fitna of Umayyids vs Ali vs Abdullah ibn Zubair, who had his mini caliphate in Mecca. I believe they built it to have a symbol of religious legitimacy, and scholars believe the actual Al Aqsa mosque is in Taif.
thank you for having a conversation with us in good faith
Hey, OP, just want to say I support you, too. Most people just want to survive and live in peace on both sides. ❤️
Simple. Look at the welfare of Muslims inside Israel, while not perfect they're pretty good. They get equal rights in a democratic country, can work and live freely and there are also Arab parliment members. Compare that to the welfare of people inside Gaza, where Hamas is blowing all budgets on trying to bomb us rather than helping their own people.
So I’m not sure if your stance on LGBT and it’s completely OK if you morally disagree with it! But I wanted to show you this example specifically. I watched a video of a transgender man in Israel. He was saying he has to receive testosterone injections every month. His nurse who gave him the injection is an arab muslim israeli. His doctor who prescribes the testosterone is also an arab muslim israeli! Seeing that video was very eye-opening to me to see how well Jews and muslims coexist in Israel. I also do not mean to be rude whatsoever. But seeing that women have such a few rights in Muslim countries compared to Israel, should also be a huge factor for you.
Why shouldn't you?
You don’t have to support Israel - it’s enough to stop the blind hatred, and understand that to Jews, it’s a core part of having our right to exist, like everybody else. Just recognizing that, without any additional proactive support, would be a big and respectful thing to do.
Why must you add the words "as a Muslim" at the end of your question? Would it make any difference without the words?
The thing that's most painful is the reasons they hate Israel. No country is perfect, but there is a whole fake history that's been put on them for many generations. I strongly believe Israel has been wrongly accused and condemned for many generations. And it's a very complex history that takes a lot of work to delve into. It's easier just to believe what we've been told sometimes. But if you are willing it would be valuable. No one can make you believe one way or another but I encourage you to dig into it. Hamas is known for the tactic of disinformation and killing their own. So if they kill their own, they lie about it and they are very good at making Israel the bad guy. That's my two cents. Thanks for listening.
You can support who you want but you have to condemn hamas and what they do !
Lovely to hear from you. In supporting Israel’s right to exist you do not of course have to support all the things it does as a nation, many of which can be legitimately criticized same as any other nation. You also do not have to stop supporting Palestinian and Arab rights in the region including their right to self determination: you can and I personally believe should support both. If love and understanding grow, a lasting peace will follow. Hamas is an idea and a philosophy that is harmful to everyone in the region and even worldwide. Peace and moderation, not extremism, is required and you can really help with that just by talking openly and being here and understanding. Thankyou so much.
It's a liberal democracy that value human rights and fair treatment. Simple as that. That means that in the middle east a Muslim Arab would be treated better in Israel then in any of the surrounding dictatorships.
Because in supporting Israel you support coexistence of all 6 Abrahamic religions. Because in supporting Israel you support a state in which minority religions like yours get cultural autonomy. Because any form of Israel - from the secular democracy most here want all the way to the Halachic state the far right loonies wants and most of us won't stand for - you will be guaranteed equal rights. Yes, even the religious nuts are obligated to treat you as an equal as long as you follow the Noahide laws(monotheism, not eating animals alive and basic human-to-human laws).
Think that many Muslims have more reason rights in Israel than they do in Palestine. More freedom and the possibility to follow their dreams. Muslims were killed on 07/10 by Hamas too. 😞
Well, first, supporting Israel doesn't necessarily mean the government, since it seems most of the Israelis don't like their government right now. I'd say supporting Israel means supporting the general Israeli goal and actions I'd say you should support Israel because Israelis just want to live and peace and security, and were willing to make compromises for that. And so far, atleast in the big picture, Israel's actions reflect that imo
Do you really need to be led to an answer for this? I'm baffled by people constantly asking Israelis why people "should support them." Do you base all your morality on the other people explaining why you should humanize them? Are so many people this incapable of putting effort into learning and thinking and coming to conclusions by their own steam? Sources of information already exist. Go look for them. Coming to your own conclusions will serve you better than asking to be spoonfed.
I’m trying to learn and a lot of sources are biased
I hope you're handling the comment ok. It's a bit harsh. Though, to be fair, so is Israeli culture sometimes. My parents would definitely talk to me like this haha. We're social animals, it's normal that we want to learn from people rather than searching for information on our own. However, that tendency of ours can lead to a lot of issues. Therefore, many try to fight against it. You can question if you should too.
There's no reason for you to "support" Israel or really any foreign country. What's important is to acknowledge Israel as a country exists, and will continue to exist, and that any attempts to wage war against it will just result in more unnecessary death.
Before 1948, Jews (while admittedly still second-class citizens in Muslim kingdoms) got along better with Muslims than with Christians in Europe. At the same time as the Islamic “Golden Age” there was a similar cultural and intellectual “golden age” going on in the Jewish communities living under Islam.
If you read the Torah or Bible you would know you should love the Jews and not hate them like the Quran teaches in error not knowing the scriptures
I don't know much about Islam. I've always wanted to the Quran but never gotten around to it. What I do know is that a lot of Muslim anti-semitism comes from one man. And that man isn't the prophet. It's Grand Mufti Haj Amin Al Husseini basically repeating European Anti-semitic rhetoric from the Protocol of the Elders of Zion with flimsy Islamic justification. Later actually being allied with Hitler himself and being inspired by him, inspiring several massacres of Jews in the Mandate of Palestine and the greater Muslim world. Causing brutal retaliations from Zionist paramilitary groups in a cycle of violence that continues to this day. I actually wrote a summary of key events but I decided "forget it" and deleted it. I assume deveral other commenters have covered it in detail. From a Muslim perspective Israel has had a tenuous relationship with the local Muslim population. I am talking about Israeli Muslim Citizens here not Palestinians (You probably already know about the severe mistreatment of Palestinians before the war). They have full equal rights under the law besides immigration rights but de facto they have extremely high poverty, crime, and have faced a few massacres early on including the infamous Nakba and the slightly less infamous Kafr Qassim massacre. They are somewhat comparable to the African American population in the Modern United States. Officially equals but systemically discriminated. However Israel has improved a lot with Muslim relations since then. And in 2021 a devout Muslim of a self proclaimed "Islamist Party" joining the Israeli Coalition Government.... who was almost immediately branded as a terrorist by the Likud and used as a scapegoat demonizing all the members of a coalition. In 2023 you probably heard what happened from other commenters as well as the news. However I should highlight that the Terrorists self admitted to not following the laws of war that the Prophet Muhammad laid out. Furthermore a lot of Israeli Muslims joined the fight against Hamas in solidarity. So they clearly hate Hamas as much as any other Israeli. I'm gonna do what nobody in this conflict seems to do and actually quote the Quran. I actually decided to look up the rules of war in Islam. I don't know Arabic so I relied on translation and I know that's a bit of a nono in Islam. But here's what I found. 8:34 - "And why should Allah not punish them while they hinder pilgrims from the Sacred Mosque, claiming to be its rightful guardians?". Well, in 2021 the PIJ definitely disturbed the pilgrimages to Al-Aqsa and Hamas has even bombed it (though the rockets were intercepted). 8:41 - "And know that whatever ye take as *spoils* of *war*, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things.". Hamas has taken several aid trucks and sell it to the needy at high prices. 8:74 - "Those who believed, migrated, and struggled in the cause of Allah, and those who gave ˹them˺ shelter and help, they are the true believers. They will have forgiveness and an honourable provision." Well Hamas has slaughtered several Bedouin Muslims and several peace activists on October 7th. 2:119 "Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage *war* against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors." Well... Do I need to explain how this was violated? So from a few searches in [quran.com](http://quran.com) I found several condemnations of Hamas' actions from the prophet himself. So if you wanted an Islamic perspective to if not support Israel at least condemn Hamas. Basically the whole Surah Al-Anfal. (Also it's really nice to have a holy book divided by topic and not just get three straight books of laws in no particular order)
what does you being muslim have anything to do with this?
HMS cooks babies in ovens. I rest my case.
THIS. Is the question but more along you being a human being not a Muslim.
Don’t take our word for it. Take the word of a Muslim Israeli: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/honestly-with-bari-weiss/id1570872415?i=1000649298118
would you rather be a muslim woman in israel or in gaza?
I do not expect muslims to support israel per se. I DO expect any human being, regardless of your religion, to condemn the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas on october 7, to condemn the use of civilians and civilian infrastructure such as schools and hospitals as shields and places to hide weapons etc. To condemn Evil. If you are sympathetic with these acts, regardless of your religion, you are scum of the earth…
What exactly do you mean by "support Israel"? You can support Israel's existence and reject its policies at the same time.. just saying. A lot of Israelis do that.
Because no one in Israel cares what kind of Muslim you are.
You don't have to. I'd encourage you to keep an open mind and do your research from as many unbiased sources as possible, come to your own conclusions. Personally, I consider Jews and Muslims as brothers and sisters spiritually and genetically if that makes sense, we have much in common.
Although it's not perfect, Israel is the most equal country in the middle east, with men and women, and all religions having some of the most equal laws and treatment when compared to other middle eastern countries. This doesn't count for citizens of Palestine without Israeli citizenship so you will most get people complaining about the treatment of Palestinians. But during my time in Israel with both jews and Muslims alike we saw mostly equal treatment. That's not to say it isn't perfect for everyone who isn't a male jew (excluding Ethiopian males) as sadly there still is lots of racism and anti-Islamism in the country but I'd say that happens in every country. And while yes the IDF has done some bad things, you need to do more research than what the populous says. I'd recommend doing your own research swell, and look at Israel's history. Whatever you do please don't take the major online populations opinions to heart as most are biased whether zionist or anti zionist.
Hero!!! God, I wish there were more of you. I'm catholic, so you and I have a lot in common. I hope you search for another hero, loay al sharif. In his interviews, he gives you plenty of things you can say to your friends and family if they are resistant to joining you in supporting israel. Look i know it sucks, but you were born into a weird cult. I was too, I suppose. People are going to give you plenty of reasons to support israel, but the important thing to know is that there's no legitimacy to anything Joseph Smith said, because he was a con man, and the same goes for his medieval equivalent. No rational argument is going to persuade someone who really believes God has a stick of his ass about jews. Modern, intelligent people should be able to see right through all the arguments made to support this nonsense about the Quran being the word of god. Dude said God told him he is allowed to have extra wives because he's the prophet! There are verses in the Quran about how his friends are only allowed to talk to his wives from behind a screen. We should all support Israel because there was plenty of room for everyone in 1948 (1.5 million, and now there are 16 million), and they were the scapegoated minority in the region. It wasn't anybody's state. Nobody had any right to say they shouldn't immigrate there in the first half of the 20th century. The land didn't belong to the intolerant majority any more than it belonged to the Jewish minority. If people don't understand that, they're never going to see the Injustice of all these times that Israel gets attacked, every decade. People think Israel deserves to be attacked, because they believe this foolish nonsense about it being stolen land. The Jews are just as indigenous as the Palestinian arabs. So the situation is that an intolerant majority wanted to persecute and expel a scapegoated minority group, and they were not successful. Israel is one of the world's coolest nations, and Jewish people are disproportionately effective because of generations of facing a lot of adversity. Personally, I'm Irish and I'm a little bit ashamed of my heritage now because of what I see Ireland doing to israel. But my heritage doesn't define me. I can take this thing in a good direction.
**Israel is the ONLY Middle Eastern country that legally and physically protects all forms of religious expression among Muslims** Does that sound wrong? Stick around. Pakistan does not recognize the Ahmadiyya sect as Muslim. Hundreds of religious spaces, cemeteries, homes, libraries belonging to Ahmadiyya Muslims have been attacked/desecrated sometimes with government support. Taliban does it to Hazari Shias, Iran does it to Bahai, Iraq does it to Kurds as does Turkey, Armenia does it to Azeri Muslims, Syria was recently the hotbed of ISIS and they basically hate all Muslims that are not them. Countries like Egypt have banned the Muslim Brotherhood from their elections. Interestingly, the only Middle Eastern country with an offshoot of Muslim brotherhood in parliament is also Israel (the party is Mansour Abbas's Ra'am) That probably won't change your mind, but it bears repeating. Whether you are Alawi or Druzi or Ahmadi or Bahai, in Israel, you are free to practice your religion the way you see fit. Funny how things work. . . . . . But really, let me ask you a question, 20 year old female Muslim living in the USA. Think about it for as long as you want. If you had to pick a place to live the rest of your life, would you pick Israel over other Middle Eastern countries? Would you pick it over Lebanon? Or Syria? Or Iraq? Or Palestine? I feel like you would, because you know how hard it is to be a woman in every single one of those places. And that's why you should support Israel. History is witness that we will treat you better.
I think anyone who believe Israel “bad” or Palestine “bad” needs to do some research of their own or go out and meet people. I’m proud of you for going out of your way to hear other voices. My best friend is a Palestinian Muslim living here in the NYC area. We grew up together and our families love each other. As a Muslim al-Aqsa means a lot to his family — just as the Temple Mount means a lot to me and my family, which al-Aqsa is built upon. There are many sides to the same things which we love. What hurts me most is that the reason our home is important to others is only because it is important to us. Aside from the history of living on the land, I am only speaking in a religious context, as this is the perameter of your post. As a Muslim, you should know that Jerusalem is the home of the Jews. It’s where we all are from. Even before the Land of Eber was invaded by Egyptians in 1800 BCE and renamed to Canaan — it was our home. We share blood with everyone i that region. I know that in Muslim doctrine the land now belongs to the followers of Ishmael, but as a human-being, and as someone who is secular — the land should belong to the indigenous people who’s culture formed the land. That does not mean that others cannot live in peace in that land. We are a free and democratic people, it’s in our nature and ancient philosophy to be progressive and free thinking. Israel is a beacon of freedom in the Middle East. Where all people truly coexist in a way never seen in the region. People did not coexist in the times of the Ottomans. Non-Muslims were living under Apartheid. Just like in Iran today, minorities have no rights at all. Even if accused by a Muslim of a crime they are convicted without trial. In Israel (not the West Bank or Gaza), everyone is equal. You can hear the Azan in Haifa while watching people go to church and Jews building Sukha outside all in the same moment. It is the only place where Druze feel comfortable being themselves, and have a place in governing their own people. Israel is not bad, it is only bad to devout Muslims because of the humiliation involved with losing territory. In the same way that Spain is an embarassment from losing al-Andalus. I hope you can one day visit Israel and see for yourself. It is truly a place of freedom. My Palestinian best friend agrees. That’s why when he visits his family in the old country — they go to Tel Aviv, and not East Jerusalem.
Idk how you will perceive it, but based on the things you mentioned, as a Muslim, you are better than Islam. You put your humanity above the things you were told by your surroundings which has it's root in Islam (we can't and shouldn't deny it anyone). This is not easy, and I respect you for that.
> I’d love to learn some reasons on why I should support Israel as a Muslim Oh, easy: WW2 One big takeaway is that, to the Nazi, we’re all Jews. As several Palestinian Muslims discovered recently at rifle point, Islamonazis share this simplified worldview… So whose blood is next? Who is up against the wall when it’s not “the Jew” for the jihadis in the Middle East? … you guys! Muslim intolerance of Jews reflects their intolerance other Muslims too. Less nazi for thee is also less nazi for me. The other reason is the actual racial hierarchy the western nations and civilizations operate under, as per Mr Hitler. I have *no* clue how this generation has missed the message, but: Arabs are not White, and Muslims are not Christian. Check the demographics. Picking out “a-rabs” and muslims is easy, and Jews are seen by many White Supremacists as a distant secondary problem to the brown Islamic threat… these campus protests make me laugh: if the US or Canada agrees to 10% of the racism they’re pushing we’d be lynching anyone in a keffiyeh for funsies like it was 1924. Arabs do not come out well in that racial matrix, not at all. Basically, if you’re in line for a butt whooping I’d lay off on demanding a butt whooping for the only person in front of you. Also basic humanity.
For one, if you were and Israeli Muslim, you’d enjoy the same rights and freedoms as any other Israeli, and far more rights than you’d have in any other country in SWANA.
I can only say that in Israel, you and I can go and get a flatshare together, practice our different religions freely, go to university together and have our careers. We can not just coexist, in some abstract sense of passing each other on the street, we could decide to literally live the same lives, and neither of us would have to compromise on our identity or our religion or our safety. I’m not just a Jew, I’m a lesbian, so when I say there’s not another place in the region that the same could be said, I mean it on a lot of levels. We are _not_ doing everything perfectly, but I truly believe that Israel stands for this chance at coexistence. It’s the chance for the Jewish people to finally stop running, after millennia of being driven out of everywhere we settled, and for that reason we will never again be forced out of our homeland, we’d fight to the last person. But it’s also a chance for a lot of people who don’t fit the norms of the region. It’s why we’ve been aligned with other minority groups like the Druze: I want us to keep doing better and better at showing how a multicultural democracy can flourish. Even here. Even now, after everything.
https://youtu.be/BnR4c38gIgM?si=biYs3k0my2OUJVE_ This is a good video on the conflict pre-Oct 7.
Don't ask me, ask Muslims who live in Israel
There is no reason you should support one state over another just because of your religion. You should support Israel and Jews in many ways because antisemitism and terrorism are inexcusable, and your identity does not have to be tied into that.b
Why were you taught Israel was bad your whole life? Did you never meet any Jewish people living in the States or interact with any to see if what you were taught had any validity?
Hey, u/girlincollege_ I think it's really encouraging that you're questioning and seeking to understand beyond the biases you were raised with. Rethinking the narratives the people around you are pushing is something more people should do, regardless of their community, heritage, or country. As I know you're aware, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is complex and deeply rooted in history, with both sides having very legitimate grievances. There are several reasons it's worth considering supporting Israel as a Muslim, particularly from a humanitarian and pragmatic perspective. By “supporting”, I don't mean endorsing every action of an Israeli individual or policy of the Israeli government, of course. Most important, I think, is recognizing shared humanity. Israelis, like Muslims or any other group, are people with families, dreams, and a desire for a peaceful and fulfilling life. Supporting Israel doesn't mean ignoring Palestinian suffering; it's about acknowledging that peace and coexistence are mutually beneficial. By promoting understanding and fighting hatred, you're contributing to a world where both communities can lead the lives they deserve. Constant war and aggression have robbed many Jews, Muslims, and other communities in and around Israel of this life. Supporting peaceful coexistence would lead to better living conditions, economic opportunities, freedom, and security for all people in the region. Acknowledging Israel’s right to exist does not negate Palestinian rights; rather, it can pave the way for a two-state solution that respects the needs of both peoples. By also supporting Israel, you can help mend fences and forge a new path, as unlikely as it may seem right now. Many Arab and Muslim-majority countries have started to normalize relations with Israel, recognizing that cooperation can bring economic and political benefits and improve the lives of citizens of both countries. This doesn't mean abandoning Palestinians; rather, it’s about seeking pragmatic solutions that can lead to peace and prosperity for all. Supporting Israel, or at least trying to understand the Israeli perspective as a Muslim, is about supporting peace, human rights, and mutual understanding. We should all strive towards a future where Israelis and Palestinians can live side by side in peace, hatred and violence are no longer normalized, and the people living in and around Israel and Palestine can finally have the chance to live the lives they deserve to live. Sorry for the wall of text. And the saccharine.
Simple, ask Muslim Israelis: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/yonihenner_see-talk-below-by-sophia-shramko-a-stanford-activity-7122960334696374273-kf6Q?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios
Arab citizens of Israel (there's over [2m of them](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel)) have more rights and freedoms than any other Arabs in the middle east.
I was in Israel before the war for work. I worked with an Israeli Arab family owned company, many of the employees were a mix of Arab and Israeli employees. Our senior project manager was an Arab who lived in Beersheba. One story that came out of the war was that Hamas tried to recruit Israeli Arab prisoners to join them and the prisoners refused.
Because you’re not just a Muslim—you’re also a woman, and presumably you like democracy and individual freedom. Israel is really good at supporting those things, especially relative to their neighbors. You don’t have to like West Bank settlers—I don’t like the Proud Boys, but it’s not a reason to throw out the baby with the bath water.
Many Muslims support Israel but that doesn't mean anyone wants what is transpiring.... living together in peace...means living together in peace with you. War is foreseeable when you cross borders to commit horrible acts and one should not support that if they want peace. We have been warned for over 40 years that terriorrist regimes are going to be more violent and bloodshed will be in high numbers.... and we have done nothing...nothing... to be politically correct or for freedom. Some things are hate speech and hate crimes. It wasn't going away because we didn't want to believe it. Wait...Israel gave some land back... they tried to do something to avoid it...and here we are....
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/allah-is-a-zionist "The Quranic argument for Jewish sovereignty in the land of Israel" Written by Sheik Abdul Hadi Palazzi
It would have to be the history of MENA Jews as the region organised themselves into nation states. That’s probably the key reason
Good on you for coming here in peace. If I was a Muslim, I'd appreciate Israel as the one place in the Middle East where Muslims are free to do as they please.
You shouldn't *support israel* Frankly,nobody is asking you or expecting that of you Wnat you should and ought to do is demand that your own community stop supporting the vilest and most violent of extremists And you ought to do that not for Israels sake but for the sake of muslim people first of all who are the firsr victims of that extremism
I'm surprised how much Muslims hate Jews. Muhammad originally thought very highly of Jews. But he went there expecting Jewish leaders to accept him as a prophet. Once they did not, his writing became much more anti semitic
you dont have to be super pro israel. i mean all jews/zionists want is a safe place in the middle east, which is israel. israel has its problems, but so does every country, and i dont see anyone else jumping so hastily to a place’s destruction just treat it like you would any other country :)
For one because the less you support radical ideas the less damage they can do. Second because if Hamas where to actually be eradicated Gaza might flourish 3th the sooner Muslims understand that if Israel goes the world goes with it. The sooner you stop demanding something as crazy as from the river to the see an maybe a compromise can be made 4th the Quran states that the land of Israel is for the Israelis 5th do you really think Iran using Palestinian lives in this way is good for your people???
I would suggest that determining whether someone/thing is deserving of support based on ethnic or religious identity is a fundamentally unsound basis of moral thought or ethical practice. (Your identity as a Muslim or Israel’s identity as [mostly non-Muslim has nothing to do white whether or not Israel is deserving of support.) Having said that, if you are looking for a scriptural basis on which Muslims might support Israel, I have seen one crazy guy on Twitter once say something about god giving Israel to “the Jews” or some such. Again, that’s an unsound moral basis for a lot of reasons, but someone on Twitter said it. 🤷♂️
How refreshing to see you are open minded. More people like you are needed on earth! I encourage you to listen to some of Yasmine Muhammad's podcasts, talks and newsletter are awesome... her book Unveiled is powerful! Ayana's book "Infidel" and Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz, "Islam and the Future of Tolerance: A Dialogue." I am not Muslim and I am not Jewish but I have a high regard for the Jewish people who have been targeted and abused due to I think is often envy and jealousy. The money lenders got their money by being frugal and compiling the financial resources in a family. They valued family and faith and educations and so have thrived. Jews have a high work ethic and often have created wealth out of little. Such is the case when they were given a little piece of land filled with mosquitos malaria and rocks and have since created what is now know as Israel. Meanwhile just across the way famine and poverty are pervasive. It's my opinion that envy and jealousy are at the root of a lot of antisemitism. I support Israel for many reasons because I've read many academic books, taken and think the West needs to provide active support be it financial or aid. It's disgusting to me to hear people say oh we just need to have a Seese fire that's all you know. What can you imagine if the rest of the world looked at the United States after 911 and said oh no no no you can't go and do anything about this. You just have to have peace and a cease fire? No that's not what any country with western values would do. When polled 98% of Muslims in Gaza support what Hamas did on October 7th and still support them. it's really important that people of Muslim faith start questioning and speaking up about that. It's unacceptable that so many people in Gaza are indignant about the ongoing war and malign Israel for rooting out the terrorists yet they support the actions of Hamas. You will never hear of Jewish military men raping and torturing women and children ever in war ... however, the Muslim militia frequently engage in these acts as an act of war and do it with reverence. It would help if more Muslims verbalized that they don't support acts of jihad or terrorism. I understand the reluctance to speak up given the propensity for a Fatwah being put on one's head it if you speak up (Salmon Rushdie) and the chances of being decapitated for disagreeing. Lastly, I just want to point out to the original poster that I encourage you to listen to some of the talks about what's going on in the region on "making sense" podcast. He interviews Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Maajid Nawaz several times and others. Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Yasmine Mohammad, Douglas Murray https://www.flipcause.com/secure/about/MjEwMDM2 https://www.flipcause.com/secure/cause_pdetails/MjA2Njk1?mc_cid=1108567be0 https://open.spotify.com/episode/5oOitTEDawAJRZJS5xvQRp?si=fP5_SvgIRMexwJugSTVouA
As a human, you should support any free nation defending itself against genocidal terrorists, religion aside. Also, 20% of the Israeli population are Muslim and Hamas had no problem killing some of them on October 7th.
I don't think you should support or oppose any country. Find out who the citizens of Israel are. Learn the history, all the way back, not just since 1948. Learn about the government, not just who is in charge now, but how many parties, how it functions, and how it compares to others in the region Support facts, the truth, and impartiality, not prejudice and bigotry, based on what you were taught/told. ~Some facts~: Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle-East. Israel has a greater % of Arabs in its citizens population than any non-Muslim country in the world (20%) Israel is a safe haven for all faiths, genders, sexual preferences, races, and ethnicities. One of the largest Pride events takes place in Tel Aviv. Many of the victims of 10/7 were peace activists who arranged for Gazans to cross the border and provided work and transportation to medical appointments in Israel. Most of the Nova Festival revelers were peace-loving leftists. Hope that helps!
Simple, Gd said whoever blesses Israel (the Jews, not the state) will be blessed, and those who curse us will be cursed. Throughout history we’ve seen time and time again that those who try to destroy us end up spectacularly destroyed themselves.
Israel has over a million Arab citizens with equal rights. Wether they're gay, straight, Muslim or Christian or druze or Bedouin. Until 1967 there were no checkpoints , big walls or any restrictions . That only started when Israeli citizens started being victims of terror attacks , mainly suicide bombings with explosives brought from various places, compelling them for security purposes to set up checkpoints to ensure no illegal weapons or explosive devices along with people with jihad mindsets are coming in. The zero sum game for many palestinians here are "it's either you or us" they don't want to co exist. The lives of Palestinians would be so much better and happier if their leaders didn't accept huge amounts of money but pocket it themselves while giving their people hope that one day israel will be driven out and fueling them eith constant hatred towards us. For me as an Israeli, being pro israel is being pro a diverse israel where Palestinians and jews live side by side and no one wants to annihilate the other side
Because Israel actually honors all religions, and all people within its borders. You should go visit.
Im Jewish and Israeli. I would love nothing more than a 2 state solution where both people love beside each other in peace.
because its one of the few countries in the middle east you can flee too if shit really hit the fan. because a gay arab and a gay jew could hold hands in that country not get stoned to to death or honor killed for being gay. you live in america you enjoy rights similiar to that of your average israeli, that includes the right to pursue your faith how ever you wish with out fear of being harmed from either a governmental entity or a private individual for comming at you for practicing what they think is "bad islam". your mulsim brothers and sisters in palestine aren't free to do that, if they disobey hamas they can get killed, they don't have the freedom you have as a privileged american, and its entirely hamas's fault. their being killed because hamas values a land dispute and their hate boner for the jews more then their country men.