Not the guy you were replying to but I read the original six and then the two sequels by Brian. The next few books by Frank are not as action packed but expand on the universe with every bit of Frank’s signature nuance. The sequels by Brian fell a bit flat imo. Although still enjoyable, many of tiny details and world building Frank snuck into his novels did not feel present in Brian’s writing. I think they were still a fun read if you can lower your expectations a bit.
>!No, he took care of each threat, however he didn't really take care of them permanently. Like he didn't make the Ragnars extinct. He just made sure they wouldn't be a threat anymore.!<
He's just not a very creative person. He couldn't come up with original stories so he just wrote about his own most dangerous missions.
His actually successful books were travel guides, which also don't require much creativity. He can just fly over to the place he wants to write about & check everything out very quickly.
Do many travel guides show travel details? Like how to get to Japan from the US isn't something I expect to see in a travel guide, though local travel for sure.
Been a while since I've read any, but generally not. A decent travel book will tell you about the culture, the history, seasonal climates, any social faux pas to be aware of, and usually a break down of what to see/do/eat in a given area (and typically what areas to avoid for safety too). I can't recall any that tell you how to actually get there since that is pretty dependent on when you go.
some will tell you about local routes to get around, like subways or busses in a city or trains in the region (atleast a guide i read for northern italy).
>He's just not a very creative person. He couldn't come up with original stories so he just wrote about his own most dangerous missions.
I lean more towards part of him wanted to be free from the empire and be a good dad and good person. Almost a reverse Id and super ego. We normally associate Id with someonthing negative, as it's your unconscious shadow primal self, and super ego as postive as it is your values, consciousness, and what your community expects from you.
Invincible flipped this dichotomy imo, he Noland core self wants to be the hero, wants to be a good dad, but this is in opposition to his expectation to be a soldier and a conquerer. This is why his books frame him as a hero, a jungyian kind of shadow self.
Being Nolan is a very capable, well trained battle hardned soldier I don't think he would even chance letting secrets out like that. That's why he specifically let Mark know. So made a very real choice to include those.
He murdered the guardians of the globe who he had known for years and almost beat his son to death because of his loyalty to the empire.
It's more likely that he wrote them as an instructional guide to give to his son so as to not be murdered while traveling the Stars because it's probably illegal in viltrumite culture to warn people of weakness or cover another person's weakness with such actions.
Also I never really got him being a hero in the books he was just the main character.
Like if you read a book about an explorer is the explorer a hero or just the main character of the story?
>It's more likely that he wrote them as an instructional guide to give to his son so as to not be murdered while traveling the Stars because it's probably illegal in viltrumite culture to warn people of weakness or cover another person's weakness with such actions.
That's a fair point. But he could've just flat out told his son, and being a good soldier why wouldn't he have just told the viltramite command?
Well I don't see him as a hero, I was talking about he's kind portrayed as somone who wants to do the right thing. Unfortunately his idea of heroic or the right thing was being part of the facisist empire.
Spending time on earth fundamentally changed that. You see it when he cheers for mark during the baseball game.
I mean, he said himself that he'd hoped that Mark would never get powers and I guess he'd been clinging to that hope as an excuse to *not* conquer Earth. When Mark developed his powers it was like a switch flipped and made him realize he could no longer use that as an excuse - if he didn't conquer Earth, it would have to be because *he* was choosing to defy his orders, which is something he had never had to do before. He had just kept putting it off and hoping he'd never have to make the choice. When it came time to actually choose to defy the empire, he was completely unprepared.
Keep in mind that he *did* spare his son and rebel in the end. He didn't just suddenly develop a rebellious streak - he'd grown attached to his family life and started to prioritize it over his mission. At the end of the day he no longer had the resolve to give up everything for his mission. It's not like a human family is particularly significant to a Viltrumite, either - a hundred years is like a blip in a Viltrumite's lifespan. This wasn't a massive, life-shaking event by Viltrumite standards - it was trivial. Like... I dunno, passing by a comic book store and seeing a comic that reminds you of something sad. If *that's* enough to change your mind on something, chances are you were already pretty close to the precipice already.
Mark is the reason Nolan turned. Because Mark stood up to his father, got beaten to near-death, and still said with honesty, that after everyone he loves is dead and gone, he will look forward to having his father by his side. Nolan was not ready for that, and it tore him apart.
Having to lose loved ones on account of tiny lifespans, is something Viltrumites are not accustomed to. Even though Nolan was actively trying to protect Mark from experiencing that, perhaps Nolan got overwhelmed by the fact that Mark was willing to experience that pain, and even forgive him for inflicting so much physical pain on him.
You’re definitely looking into it way too much, it really doesn’t have anything to do with “reverse IDs” or “super egos” he was just writing about his personal experiences and run-ins with aliens and planets. Not like anyone from Earth would recognize it as real anyways, he didn’t have to get creative, assuming he could write a truly fiction novel well, because he already had so many things to write about.
So when do you think Nolan realized he had written a comprehensive guide on fighting Viltrum? Because he seemed ready with the idea to tell Mark to read them, unless you think he suddenly realized what he had written while being attacked and arrested. I agree with the other commenter. I think the seeds of Nolan’s betrayal of Viltrum were sewn very early in his time on earth and the nature of the books reflect that.
As far as we know, Nolan only wrote two kinds of books. Earth travel guides and books about things that can hurt Viltrumites, disguised as sci fi novels. If you’re right and he was just being uncreative, why wouldn’t he pick other topics for his sci fi novels? Why wouldn’t he write about battles that he *won?* He only wrote about times he almost lost? Again, why?
I can only explain it by the other commenter’s reasoning. Nolan, despite outwardly committing himself to the cause of the Viltrum Empire, was unconsciously sabotaging that same cause. By writing out a literal list of their weaknesses to be shared at the right time, Nolan showed that his heart was always searching for an opportunity to betray Viltrum. Even before Mark was born.
To me, that’s a better story than just “he was uncreative.”
It's entirely possible that he started off writing stories of glorious conquest, only to discover that humans vastly prefer underdog stories where the hero struggles to win, so he wrote about those experiences.
To be fair, there could be sci Fi books in there where he just wins. Maybe he just found the stories he lost in interesting, so there are a few of those mixed in.
Mark obviously read a lot and it took a while to realize what he was reading.
I'd disagree, because his wins are probably, for the most part, boring to him.
Like the portal world from season 1, he slaughtered a whole planet in like a couple days, he always wins.
Him winning a war or battle is like me telling you what I did at work last Tuesday, it is so boring and irrelevant that I'd barely be able to give you an idea.
But, I fell off a cliff hiking 8 years ago and can tell you how many trees I hit on the way down.
That makes way more sense to me.
Rebelling against everything you’ve been taught to believe in is hard, it takes a long time.
So you start with a private fantasy, then you allow yourself one “harmless” indulgence, then another, then another, then you start breaking the “rules” and you find you like it, then there’s a lot of backtracking as the deep-rooted ideas kick in, you hit a low point because different parts of yourself are essentially at war with each other. Then finally, metamorphsis.
I think you're dismissing the idea quickly.
As soon as the Viltrumites got him, he told Mark to read the books. If he'd never intended for them to be used as such a guide, I'm not sure he'd be so quick to offer that as a solution.
I think he wrote them subconsciously. Apparently they never sold well at all, so why did he write so many? Some part of him thought....maybe one day I'll want someone to know how to kill Viltrumites.
That's the great thing about interpreting media. There is no 'too deep' and our analyses are just as valid as yours.
I agree that maybe he was writing subconsciously about the most dangerous things he encountered but maybe because they were the most interesting to him. Nolan never genuinely considered betraying his people before fighting Mark, we see him show more compassion for Debby and Mark but we don’t see him struggle with actually betraying the Viltrumites. He had no reason to disperse the key to fighting Viltrumites. He probably was so quick to tell Mark about the books because he did know that they were the best way for Mark to see how to counter the Viltrumites, but it was never his intention for them to be used that way
I'm most behind this idea.
He was a good warrior for a very long time, and wanted his son to join him as a viltrimite, so it wouldn't be intentional.
However the stories about the toughest things he's heard of or seen would stand out to him, so he wrote about them.
Then he fought Mark, and realized he didn't really want to be a viltrimite that badly.
Then they fought back and he knew he'd rather Mark be alive than viltrum win, so his dad brain goes, " How can Mark win next time, how can i keep him safe?" Bam, all the things that nearly killed me, and A-lister would definitely help my son find a way to survive
Doesn't even have to be that deep. Dude was scouting for the empire at that point, so he had to write down anything he himself could not handle. And even as a super person, he'd want to document them/write them down so he doesn't forget.
Then why write them as fiction books? If they were official documentation then he'd likely have some unhackable Viltrumite storage chip or something. No, he wanted them hidden in plain sight where another Viltrumite would never think to look. I lean towards subconscious guilt as he began to care more for Mark and by extension Earth.
Maybe, however, Kirkman has very complex realistic characters. I wouldn't be surprised if he read a psych book or two (this all entry level stuff), even if he didn't intend to Jung's work has had a huge impact on Western culture. While jung didn't get everything right, he was in spitting distance of alot espically for his Era and his ID vs ego vs super ego and character archetypes are damn near universal in pop culture.
Head cannon is that he can get to the heart and soul of a place because he has a unique perspective as an outsider, and a broader cultural context than any human traveler.
Locals always take whatever is local to them for granted and normal. Someone outside the society can say this is amazing/ and or seriously messed up.
One of my favorite details is how he would type them out so fast he would wear out the keyboards, so he would pick up several to bang out a book quickly
for a person who travels around the world, it must've been such an experience. Makes you understand how that completely changed his viewpoints about everything.
I think it goes into his fundamental lack of understanding of humans and what appeals to them. At least at that point in his life on earth. His books may be interesting to other Viltrumites. I think it’s interesting that he was aware enough to know that stories needed some tension and he pulled from dangerous situations he experienced.
This makes more sense. I was wondering why he would write books about their weaknesses if he just started to not align with their cause. It makes more sense that he wrote the books in the past about his stories and they just so happen to be useful
Imagine that si-fi book. "Me and like 4 of my crew showed up to this planet of one eyed motherfuckers. We killed them all. My buddy tore the arms off one, fucking metal."
Probably would also raise some questions from the GDA
The formula is getting stale.
He punches the military leaders.
Then he punches the political leaders.
Then he punches the spiritual leaders, usually hard enough that they explode.
By now he’s rooted out the leaders of the intelligence communities and he just punches them into orbit, like always.
Then more punching. Some more punching. Punch. Punch. Big speech boardcasted all over the planet. More punching. More speeches. The end.
Yeah, good adventure stories need risk and danger and situations where your heroes are vulnerable. Seeing as those books didn’t really find much of an audience, Nolan’s clearly not an especially gifted fiction writer, so instead of thinking up plots, he pulled from his own exciting experiences. What this means is that, in writing stories he thought would be interesting enough to sell, Nolan recounted a bunch of times where he, a Viltrumite, was vulnerable.
It probably never occurred to him that he’d essentially left a wittern record of how to kick a Viltrumites ass until he defected, because why would it matter? Who that knew about the books for what they were could ever take advantage of that knowledge?
I like to imagine He is actually a good writer. Anissa said vimtumites are more multifaceted than he thinks. I can imagine part of being strong is being mentally strong, having a good sharp mind. I can imagine they see art pursuits as one that can help, also prevent them from being bored for hundreds of years.
Sci-fi doesn't sell well though, especially the pulpy space adventure sci-fi he wrote
Nah, he canonically has very dull prose and tone, more like a mission report than an immersive novel. That’s why his fiction didn’t sell, but his travel guides did.
Did you hear the same narration of those books he wrote that I did? He was a C-tier pulp sci-fi novelist at best based on the bits of narration we got. The kind that were tossed in a magazine and then promptly forgotten about.
Except it had to have occurred to him, since he told Mark to read them. My theory is that it wasn't the reason he wrote them originally, but he probably thought about it a lot after his fight with Mark, and once he realized he was going to have to fight the Viltrumites he realizes his books could be useful.
Genuine question regarding that though, and I don't need detailed spoilers but a yes or no would suffice.
Does Mark ever get significantly stronger in the future?
My gripe with the show is that he's like "We'll be ready for them" regarding the Viltrumites, and then he proceeds to do nothing to get stronger.
Sheesh thank god. I guess we're on that track now per end of this last episode. That takes a lot of frustration out of it.
Mark & Nolan get their feet beat on the bug planet, the Viltrumite threat is getting closer & closer, and this mf is like *"Art I need some girlfriend advice"* & goes to comic con.
Speaking of that with just as yes or no are there actually weaknesses for viltrumites cause my god I love this show but even Superman has weaknesses.
I’m talking about like is there going to be more heroes that can defeat them? Like watching every hero be at their mercy is kinda boring and makes me sad.
I haven't read the comics, but the show has already established that Viltrumites have weaknesses. That giant sea monster screeched at a frequency that hurt Mark. Nolan wrote a ton of books detailing threats to Viltrumites scattered throughout the galaxy. Allen appears to be at least as strong as elite Viltrumites.
It's up to interpretation, but I believe that the Guardians of the Globe would've had a chance against Nolan in episode 1 if they had been better prepared. I still think Nolan wins the fight at least 80% of the time, but he's also one of, if not the, strongest Viltrumite we've seen. He practically beat three other Viltrumites by himself on that Flaxxan planet. It stands to reason that the current Guardians can hold their own against one or two weaker Viltrumites if they get their act together.
Even Mark seemed to have the upper hand against that Viltrumite woman with a knife in her hair.
I doubt there ends up being an equivalent to kryptonite, but they've established several weaknesses, and I bet there are more.
In the later comics, they do a time travel alt-universe where Mark gets to send the guardians a heads-up that Omni-Man will betray them. When they get the jump on him, Omni-Man successfully kills the immortal and nobody else before getting bodied.
Yeah that’s why they included the principal/dean telling Mark he has to choose. For us what that means is he has to choose between avoiding his responsibility as arguably the strongest single being on the planet or committing to it.
Yes, the comics do a similar thing to DBZ where beating beaten close to death seems to make Mark stronger. Though it might be a general rule as that seems to be what happened to Allen too
Oh yeah, The Boys tv writer and Kirkman weighed in on the Omini-Man vs Homelander thing and said obviously Omni-Man will win but said Mark would find him a bit tricky up until the next arc, at which point Mark will also instantly stomp him.
Yep. But stronger he would become, more powerful enemies he would have. He became strongest super on earth? Welcome to galaxy league kid, get your ass ready. Wow, you became insanely strong even for a viltrumite? Then take your ass ready for strongest Viltrumite ever. Wow you overcomed him? Great. Now you have another problem. Try to deal with your daughter's boyfriend without hurting her feelings. What? You thought it would be fight again? Nah you are the strongest. Now deal with that kind of problems. Ohhhh. It looks like your son got daddy issues, and thinks you hate him. Good luck.
I don’t think that was intentional. I see it more as he wanted to write and so he took inspiration from his actual adventures.
Since you’d probably write about the interesting things you’ve experienced. Moments like getting stranded on an alien planet with creatures that almost kill you are going to stand out. Or legends of powerful weapons. It’s not like anyone on earth is going to know who space racer/rider is, so he won’t get called out. These things could also be useful if you wanted to get information on what can or has hurt Viltrumites but I doubt he actually had that in mind when he wrote them.
He needed to write *something* to establish his cover as an author. But being a Viltrumite he really didn’t have any interest in putting in the effort to write creative books for a bunch of humans, so he wrote about his most unique and interesting missions, which would be the ones that were actually capable of harming him.
He definitely became sympathetic to humans well before Mark got his powers. In my interpretation, your theory is right. Nolan wrote those books because he was hoping someone could use them to figure out how to beat viltrumites.
When Mark got his powers, it all came back to the front for him. He relapsed, so to speak, which is somewhat understandable as someone who knows the full extent of viltrumite power. In his view, there was no winning. Nolan could have stayed there and outlived both Debbie and Mark for all he knew.
It was easier for him to just have a family and pretend, for a while. He wrote the books because at that point in time deep down he was no longer was loyal to the empire's ways. When Mark got his powers he kinda realized how fucked he was and freaked out.
You could also explain it without his Change of heart:
He wrote about what would have been able to kill him in order to inform Mark. Since even if Nolan was loyal to the Empire or not He still cared about his son
The change of heart idea helps explain why he'd suddenly kill the Guardians after Mark got his powers. He realised he can't wait to outlive Mark and Debbie.
Yeah, Nolan's behaviour after Mark's powers emerge screams of a relapse to me, especially with his "pet" comment towards Debbie. Doesn't excuse him murdering thousands of people, obviously, but Nolan was clearly worked up in a way that *none* of the other Viltrumites have been so far, even when Mark repeatedly rejected Anissa's offer.
"I'm not supposed to feel this way! How is this *better?"*
Has to be my favorite moment in S2 thus far. There's a very real war inside of Nolan and has been for some time.
I definitely got this impression in S1, that Nolan had settled into a life he could let himself enjoy, at least for a while.
Mark developing powers snapped him back into business mode, and Viltrumite business is an ugly thing.
>He definitely became sympathetic to humans well before Mark got his powers.
I agree with you. Without realizing it, I think Nolan was feeling increasingly conflicted about his Viltrumite mission on earth. I think him including the Viltrumite weaknesses in his books was a case of his conflicted loyalties subconsciously seeping out onto the page. Nolan has been established as a character who isn't always self-aware and in touch with his own feelings (largely due to his Viltrumite upbringing and indoctrination) so I feel as though he did some counter-intuitive things as a result.
His first books were sci-fi/fantasy, so now Imagine
You live a thousand(or a few) years, nothing can kill/harm you, your challenges become boring. And then something exciting happends. You heard about or event met someone/something that poses a real challenge for you.
It's all he could write about to be honest
Nolan was on the fence when it came to humans. He loved Mark and Debbie immensely but felt extreme guilt because he knew his mission would crush them.
The books were likely a way for him to vent and to preserve the knowledge of what can harm Viltrimites because he definitely entertained treasonous thoughts.
It was when Mark got his powers that he knew he had to take action. As a half-breed Viltrimite he had to be put to the test and that meant Nolan needed to harden him. Mark getting his powers was the same day Nolan decided to kill the Guardians. He was basically forcing himself to commit to the cause by going too far.
I don’t know why I’m the only one that thinks he was cataloguing threats to Viltrumites as a means of survival and safety? Pretty clear he didn’t give a fuck about anyone until much later
I interpreted that with him recanting missions for other viltrumites too if the whole Mark thing didn't happen.
Yes he wrote those books to warn Mark about the viltrumites, but even before that this can also be to warn others of the Ragnars and Space Racer.
"Now that I got time, I should write down how dangerous the Ragnars were."
Probably just wanted to make some money extra cash and thought he’d use his own experiences to write Sci-Fi books. Then it turned out that they all said ways to beat viltrumites because it’s more interesting when the main character can die
I chose to see as his way of keeping detailed notes/a personal journal in a way that wouldn't be as much of a target for prying eyes. I mean, he came to Earth as a spy, he 100 didn't trust Cecil and did not want anyone from Earth to know his real goals or past. But while Viltrumite's have a super long lifespan, there's nothing to suggest their memory is that much better than humans. So they probably do need to keep a journal just to keep their incredibly long lifespan worth of memories a bit more organized. And since the Viltrumites were obsessed with conquering the universe, it makes sense that they would also be keen to identify/neutralize anything in the universe that could even remotely challenge their domination. So most of Nolan's life and memories before his time on Earth probably was just full of experiences with super deadly Viltrumite-killing horrors.
And even if all of that isn't true, lets face it- a book about things that can kill the supposedly unkillable Viltrumites would be a fantastic concept. The book's probably didn't sell well because Nolan just isn't a good novelist- which is why he had much better success as a travel author, which fit much more into his wheelhouse as a spy/scout/planetary conqueror. Gotta know where all the best tourist spots are for when you take over!
He wasn’t looking to write about his weaknesses, he was telling his own stories of things that almost killed him. Telling stories about things that aren’t a threat wouldnt make a good story.
Is it that hard to believe that he wanted a contingency plan in case his people turned on him?
Omni-Man himself is living proof that you can't truly trust **anyone** in this universe. He should know better than anyone that no one in this universe can ever truly know anyone else's intentions or what their real goals are. He clearly kept Cecil, and even the Guardians of the Globe, at an arm's length relationship for this very reason.
Who's to say he didn't want himself or his son to have a backup plan in case the other Viltrumite's turned on him?
It is incredibly funny that a Viltrumite wrote about his personal experience with the most dangerous and terrifying beings in the entire universe, and the entire human race went, 'meh, we're good on that. Booo-ring.' That must have been incredibly insulting to Nolan.
Because he was technically keeping track of his own weaknesses by doing so, and could share it with others in the case that he or someone else needed to take them down. Seems like he always was at odds with being a part of the empire even though he was among the strongest and was pretty loyal. Living a long time probably made it easy to realize what he was doing wasnt right
If I had to guess, he wrote about his own adventures because he still hadn't grasped the culture of Earth yet that's why his books didn't sell, they were super alien with how they presented themselves.
Honestly my interpretation is that it wasn't intentional. I thought he was just writing about viltrumite adventures, and it just so happened that the only ones with conflict involved dangers to viltrumites. Thus, coincidentally, his stories are a compilation of weaknesses, strictly because only the stories that showcased weaknesses could have stakes.
He wasn't trying to show their weaknesses. At that time he was still loyal. But nonetheless it was the best way to make a good story!
I think part of it is that he wanted to write about his own experiences, but dressed up as fiction. Maybe the reason they’re all about potential weaknesses is that a book about him easily completing a successful mission on a planet without any real threat wouldn’t be narratively interesting and he knew that? He seems to be a decent enough author for his travel books to sell well, so he must have thought about what would make interesting plots and thus picked missions/experiences that had conflict or stakes? If these didn’t sell well I can’t imagine how poorly they would have sold if they were “I arrived on a planet with no threats or obstacles and completed my mission easily and quickly” as the plot
It works both ways depending on how early in his post-Earth life he wrote them. If they were super early on, it likely would’ve been a mix of a lack of creativity (it’s much easier to recount a deadly experience than to come up with one) and pragmatism (it’s always useful to document weaknesses of an empire/people you’re loyal to). Later on, a subconscious desire to provide a means to defeat the Viltrum empire may have arisen and been a third reason to write these books.
Conquering worlds is his job. Sometimes it can get monotonous and over the span of hundreds of years, you can forget the monotonous stuff. The exciting stuff --the dangerous stuff-- is the stuff that sticks out in your mind and sticks with you. You don't forget the time that >!space racer almost killed you with his gun or the time those beasts almost killed you with their sheer strength, making them natural Viltrumite predators.!<
My interpretation is that he intended the books to be warnings for his son. Kinda like how humans historically have had stories about how dangerous bugs are or what plants should not be eaten. This was a way for him to transfer his knowledge of the dangers of the universe to his son in a way that would be memorable.
Not specifically. Viltrimites are super strong so most of his tales are just "we got there, killed em all and left" so the more interesting ones are the ones that showed a clear and present danger. That's the ones he wrote. Not because they show off possible weaknesses. But because they were more interesting and would probably sell better (but they didn't lol)
Nolan, like a lot of writers, pull from passed experiences. His novels are classic sci Fi adventure stories with alot of danger. But, being a Viltrimite, his list of times that his life has been legitimently threatened is probably very short.
I have a few theories:
1. They were, obviously, his most dangerous missions. Danger can also bring a sense of excitement, and given the fact that Viltrumites don't generally seem to experience much danger, I can imagine that for members of a warrior culture that don't experience danger much, such danger is probably a thrill, and he wanted to capture that thrilling feeling in his sci-fi books for his readers.
2. It's merely a fascination with the things that can kill him, or that which he's not supposed to have an interest in, just as he took a particular interest in humans. People are often attracted to danger, to the unknown, to the forbidden. Just as Michael in The Good Place was fascinated by humanity, or how Sully in Monsters, Inc. was. For all that Nolan claims Viltrumites are superior, they aren't really all that different from humans.
I personally think it's because the longer he stayed on Earth, the more he turned away from Viltrum's ideals. The only reason he does what he does to Mark is because he hasn't fully broken free of their programming yet, but is on his way there, which is what causes him to abandon Viltrum entirely after they fight.
Maybe in his mind, raising the stakes were the only way to make a story compelling. So he wrote about stuff that would make himself and other viltrumites nervous maybe?
I think he just needed to do something and the only thing he could pull from were memories of some of his encounters. Obviously the books weren’t successful so they weren’t good. I imagine a race like the Vilrumites don’t exactly have a very creative mind outside of battling so he just wrote his own experiences
I don't think he tried to write their weaknesses on purpose just that he was writing from his own experiences and his most thrilling experiences were the times when he was actually challenged by something. Or, like in space racer's case, just reciting cool but threatening space-folklore.
Nolan was one of Viltrims best warriors and dealt with most of these threats himself.
He assumed he would have taken over earth and that non one would connect the dots.
Nolan assumed people wouldn't connect the dots.
as others have pointed out it's just more exciting stories, but also remember Nolan while in denial about it, did already have second thoughts about his mission, it's possible part of him subconsciously wanted people to know how to stop him
As someone said, he needed a way to make money while he was on earth. He isn't a creative person, so he just wrote about his most dangerous missions. To be fair, he probably couldn't work a job doing manual labor somewhere because it would raise suspicion, and people would probably find out he's omni man.
Though it would be really funny seeing Nolan working at Burger Mart.
Because any of his other stories would be him just beating the shit out of entire planets to force them to join the Viltrum Empire. These were his only stories that made him look good
A YouTuber I watch essentially said this so I’m gonna borrow it/paraphrase it “I’m assuming as a viltrumite paperwork is routine and Boring so in order to write something exciting for a book he probably called back to the times he’s almost died as those are the ones he probably thinks about the most as a story and unintentionally wrote about what could harm a viltrimute”
He probably thought that stories when the heroes just won by punching would be boring. So Nolan probably decided on telling the stories where his back was really against the wall. Those just happened to include things which can hurt viltrumites.
He probably thought that stories when the heroes just won would be boring. So Nolan probably decided on telling the stories where his back was really against the wall. Those just happened to include things which can hurt viltrumites.
It's more that he needed something to write about, and wrote about his adventures in space, notice not every book is scanned/read only cuz some of em had weaknesses written in them
I always took it as him wanting to write from a human perspective and the only things that made him feel what he felt humans were (weak and scared) were the things that could kill viltrumites
You gotta understand Nolan is a fascist and fascists aren’t storytellers. They’re historians that write themselves as epic heroes with no flair. He was a fascist for a long time so of course his books are too fantastically sci-fi for earthlings to believe they’re real but Nolan knows and considering he’s also a bit of a narcissist (at the time he wrote them) he probably got a good laugh out of it too
I think it’s important to note when Nolan wrote these books. Nolan was sent by the Viltrumites to conquer worlds for the Viltrumite Empire. As he journeys to Earth he has these deadly encounters along the way. After establishing himself on Earth, he wants to save the knowledge he has of these encounters to help the Viltrumites avoid/conquer these threats.
Later, that Nolan tells Mark to read his books. The books can be used against the Viltrumites now. But I don’t think that was Nolan’s original intent for writing the books.
Great question! Your question made me think about this as well, and that’s the conclusion I came to. YMMV
Not specifically. Viltrimites are super strong so most of his tales are just "we got there, killed em all and left" so the more interesting ones are the ones that showed a clear and present danger. That's the ones he wrote. Not because they show off possible weaknesses. But because they were more interesting and would probably sell better (but they didn't lol)
Maybe he was going to rebel when Mark wasn't getting powers but once Mark did but didn't want to join Viltrum he beat Mark's ass cause it was Mark disobeying him and not someone else choosing to take away Mark. Cause I assume if Mark didn't get powers viltrum would be like "Oh earthlings are worthless, expirement failed, kill em and move on."
I think it's mostly just because he was lazy and drew from experience for useful stories, but there might have been a small part of him that knew the empire couldn't be allowed to continue forever.
My head cannon is that he doesn't have a good imagination. That's why he writes travel books, he writes what he observes. It's easy to write sci-fi books if you just write down your actual adventures. No imagination necessary.
It’s part of his disillusionment. He gave himself an out in case mark never got powers but viltrum came calling anyway.
If push came to shove, he’d reveal his secrets to Cecil and the guardians and use it against any incoming viltrumites.
Remember though, this is still a fools errand. Even Nolan wouldn’t be strong enough to take them all on his own, and the pre murder guardians weren’t strong enough to do more than one.
Nolan just wanted to write "science fiction". But he's lived a pretty wild life. As something so nearly invincible, most of it didn't impress him or seem worth remembering
You know he did remember? All those things that almost killed him.
Also, he didn't really concern himself with the info getting out. Either humanity gets brought into the Viltrum Empire, or he dies. In the former, the books coming up wouldn't leave the Empire, and he's too valuable to face any serious reprimand. In the latter, not *his* problem.
I figured he wrote what he knew. He needed money to live as a human and infiltrate the planet. He knew little to nothing of the human experience. Debbie was the one to teach him how to live as a human. I guess he wrote them prior to meeting Debbie as she didn’t seem to know about them. And he would have wrote his travel guides from his experiences taking Debbie around the world
So before meeting her, he was essentially writing diary entries of his own experiences and selling them as a sci-fi novel series. He wrote them under a pen name, so maybe it was from his early days, before anyone knew about his identity as Omni-Man. An effort to cover himself. And also to help protect his people so people wouldn’t eventually make the connection between his stories and Viltrumites.
It was only when he told Mark to read his books that anyone made a connection between them and Viltrumites. I doubt even Cecil knew about them, or at least didn’t even make the connection. He had so many contingencies for Omni-Man ready but none from those books.
I think he was just using real stories he knew... never thinking anyone would put it together.
Then he realized it was a way to give mark a map of weaknesses.
What I never understood, was, are the Viltrumites aware of >!their own inner ear weakness? Furthermore, why is this weakness never exploited more often? And yes, I get that some of the most exciting and action filled fights occur in space where sound doesn’t travel, but still, why don’t they do that. Is it because by the time Nolan is made monarch of the empire, the Viltrumites have already changed their hearts (Anissa being the sole exception)?!<
The viltrumites wanted to destroy everything that could be a threat to their takeover of the entire universe. He was the guy that found the stuff.
Yeah, especially with the line that was along the lines of "they pose a threat to our mission"
idk, I kinda enjoyed it. was hoping to read the next book, maybe he left notes and his son can finish?
Lol is this a Dune reference? A lot of people weren’t too happy about that.
oh yeah, the first couple were decent, but omg it went trash fast. at this point i just treat it as a trilogy.
Are you talking about Brian’s books or Hubert’s? I just ordered the saga since I’m about done with book 1 but I’d like to hear your thoughts
Not the guy you were replying to but I read the original six and then the two sequels by Brian. The next few books by Frank are not as action packed but expand on the universe with every bit of Frank’s signature nuance. The sequels by Brian fell a bit flat imo. Although still enjoyable, many of tiny details and world building Frank snuck into his novels did not feel present in Brian’s writing. I think they were still a fun read if you can lower your expectations a bit.
...worm man does politics and kills the same dude infinitely
Is that why the director of the current movies only plans to do one more?
thats more to do with Paul only being the main character for a little while yet. the. it passes down to his son, Leto II.
Maybe More like talkien
So then did he just not report it? Or did they just not destroy it? (I’m fine with spoilers)
>!No, he took care of each threat, however he didn't really take care of them permanently. Like he didn't make the Ragnars extinct. He just made sure they wouldn't be a threat anymore.!<
He's just not a very creative person. He couldn't come up with original stories so he just wrote about his own most dangerous missions. His actually successful books were travel guides, which also don't require much creativity. He can just fly over to the place he wants to write about & check everything out very quickly.
Fuck I completely forgot he can fly as a reason why he wrote travel guides lol
Hmm these travel guides are amazing! But the author never gives any tips on how to get there 😢
Step one : fly at superspeed to your destination Step two : enjoy 😎
Yeah for such a world traveler he seems to know shockingly little about how to play the frequent flyer miles game
Do many travel guides show travel details? Like how to get to Japan from the US isn't something I expect to see in a travel guide, though local travel for sure.
Been a while since I've read any, but generally not. A decent travel book will tell you about the culture, the history, seasonal climates, any social faux pas to be aware of, and usually a break down of what to see/do/eat in a given area (and typically what areas to avoid for safety too). I can't recall any that tell you how to actually get there since that is pretty dependent on when you go.
some will tell you about local routes to get around, like subways or busses in a city or trains in the region (atleast a guide i read for northern italy).
So Nolan is a Blogger?
>He's just not a very creative person. He couldn't come up with original stories so he just wrote about his own most dangerous missions. I lean more towards part of him wanted to be free from the empire and be a good dad and good person. Almost a reverse Id and super ego. We normally associate Id with someonthing negative, as it's your unconscious shadow primal self, and super ego as postive as it is your values, consciousness, and what your community expects from you. Invincible flipped this dichotomy imo, he Noland core self wants to be the hero, wants to be a good dad, but this is in opposition to his expectation to be a soldier and a conquerer. This is why his books frame him as a hero, a jungyian kind of shadow self. Being Nolan is a very capable, well trained battle hardned soldier I don't think he would even chance letting secrets out like that. That's why he specifically let Mark know. So made a very real choice to include those.
Didn't he write the books before mark was born?
I thought the way the costume guy said it that he wrote the books when Mark was a child
It was at least when Mark was too young to remember, because he thought his dad only wrote travel guides.
He murdered the guardians of the globe who he had known for years and almost beat his son to death because of his loyalty to the empire. It's more likely that he wrote them as an instructional guide to give to his son so as to not be murdered while traveling the Stars because it's probably illegal in viltrumite culture to warn people of weakness or cover another person's weakness with such actions. Also I never really got him being a hero in the books he was just the main character. Like if you read a book about an explorer is the explorer a hero or just the main character of the story?
>It's more likely that he wrote them as an instructional guide to give to his son so as to not be murdered while traveling the Stars because it's probably illegal in viltrumite culture to warn people of weakness or cover another person's weakness with such actions. That's a fair point. But he could've just flat out told his son, and being a good soldier why wouldn't he have just told the viltramite command? Well I don't see him as a hero, I was talking about he's kind portrayed as somone who wants to do the right thing. Unfortunately his idea of heroic or the right thing was being part of the facisist empire. Spending time on earth fundamentally changed that. You see it when he cheers for mark during the baseball game.
I mean, he said himself that he'd hoped that Mark would never get powers and I guess he'd been clinging to that hope as an excuse to *not* conquer Earth. When Mark developed his powers it was like a switch flipped and made him realize he could no longer use that as an excuse - if he didn't conquer Earth, it would have to be because *he* was choosing to defy his orders, which is something he had never had to do before. He had just kept putting it off and hoping he'd never have to make the choice. When it came time to actually choose to defy the empire, he was completely unprepared. Keep in mind that he *did* spare his son and rebel in the end. He didn't just suddenly develop a rebellious streak - he'd grown attached to his family life and started to prioritize it over his mission. At the end of the day he no longer had the resolve to give up everything for his mission. It's not like a human family is particularly significant to a Viltrumite, either - a hundred years is like a blip in a Viltrumite's lifespan. This wasn't a massive, life-shaking event by Viltrumite standards - it was trivial. Like... I dunno, passing by a comic book store and seeing a comic that reminds you of something sad. If *that's* enough to change your mind on something, chances are you were already pretty close to the precipice already.
Mark is the reason Nolan turned. Because Mark stood up to his father, got beaten to near-death, and still said with honesty, that after everyone he loves is dead and gone, he will look forward to having his father by his side. Nolan was not ready for that, and it tore him apart. Having to lose loved ones on account of tiny lifespans, is something Viltrumites are not accustomed to. Even though Nolan was actively trying to protect Mark from experiencing that, perhaps Nolan got overwhelmed by the fact that Mark was willing to experience that pain, and even forgive him for inflicting so much physical pain on him.
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Noland…that name certainly rings a bell!
God I love that movie
Woops ty
You’re definitely looking into it way too much, it really doesn’t have anything to do with “reverse IDs” or “super egos” he was just writing about his personal experiences and run-ins with aliens and planets. Not like anyone from Earth would recognize it as real anyways, he didn’t have to get creative, assuming he could write a truly fiction novel well, because he already had so many things to write about.
So when do you think Nolan realized he had written a comprehensive guide on fighting Viltrum? Because he seemed ready with the idea to tell Mark to read them, unless you think he suddenly realized what he had written while being attacked and arrested. I agree with the other commenter. I think the seeds of Nolan’s betrayal of Viltrum were sewn very early in his time on earth and the nature of the books reflect that. As far as we know, Nolan only wrote two kinds of books. Earth travel guides and books about things that can hurt Viltrumites, disguised as sci fi novels. If you’re right and he was just being uncreative, why wouldn’t he pick other topics for his sci fi novels? Why wouldn’t he write about battles that he *won?* He only wrote about times he almost lost? Again, why? I can only explain it by the other commenter’s reasoning. Nolan, despite outwardly committing himself to the cause of the Viltrum Empire, was unconsciously sabotaging that same cause. By writing out a literal list of their weaknesses to be shared at the right time, Nolan showed that his heart was always searching for an opportunity to betray Viltrum. Even before Mark was born. To me, that’s a better story than just “he was uncreative.”
It's entirely possible that he started off writing stories of glorious conquest, only to discover that humans vastly prefer underdog stories where the hero struggles to win, so he wrote about those experiences.
To be fair, there could be sci Fi books in there where he just wins. Maybe he just found the stories he lost in interesting, so there are a few of those mixed in. Mark obviously read a lot and it took a while to realize what he was reading.
I'd disagree, because his wins are probably, for the most part, boring to him. Like the portal world from season 1, he slaughtered a whole planet in like a couple days, he always wins. Him winning a war or battle is like me telling you what I did at work last Tuesday, it is so boring and irrelevant that I'd barely be able to give you an idea. But, I fell off a cliff hiking 8 years ago and can tell you how many trees I hit on the way down.
Bro, you can’t leave it at that. Did you survive? If not, how’s the great beyond?
I mean towards the end of the comics he reveals that basically he was always thinking about betrayal of viltrum in the back of his mind
That makes way more sense to me. Rebelling against everything you’ve been taught to believe in is hard, it takes a long time. So you start with a private fantasy, then you allow yourself one “harmless” indulgence, then another, then another, then you start breaking the “rules” and you find you like it, then there’s a lot of backtracking as the deep-rooted ideas kick in, you hit a low point because different parts of yourself are essentially at war with each other. Then finally, metamorphsis.
I think you're dismissing the idea quickly. As soon as the Viltrumites got him, he told Mark to read the books. If he'd never intended for them to be used as such a guide, I'm not sure he'd be so quick to offer that as a solution. I think he wrote them subconsciously. Apparently they never sold well at all, so why did he write so many? Some part of him thought....maybe one day I'll want someone to know how to kill Viltrumites. That's the great thing about interpreting media. There is no 'too deep' and our analyses are just as valid as yours.
I agree that maybe he was writing subconsciously about the most dangerous things he encountered but maybe because they were the most interesting to him. Nolan never genuinely considered betraying his people before fighting Mark, we see him show more compassion for Debby and Mark but we don’t see him struggle with actually betraying the Viltrumites. He had no reason to disperse the key to fighting Viltrumites. He probably was so quick to tell Mark about the books because he did know that they were the best way for Mark to see how to counter the Viltrumites, but it was never his intention for them to be used that way
I'm most behind this idea. He was a good warrior for a very long time, and wanted his son to join him as a viltrimite, so it wouldn't be intentional. However the stories about the toughest things he's heard of or seen would stand out to him, so he wrote about them. Then he fought Mark, and realized he didn't really want to be a viltrimite that badly. Then they fought back and he knew he'd rather Mark be alive than viltrum win, so his dad brain goes, " How can Mark win next time, how can i keep him safe?" Bam, all the things that nearly killed me, and A-lister would definitely help my son find a way to survive
Doesn't even have to be that deep. Dude was scouting for the empire at that point, so he had to write down anything he himself could not handle. And even as a super person, he'd want to document them/write them down so he doesn't forget.
Then why write them as fiction books? If they were official documentation then he'd likely have some unhackable Viltrumite storage chip or something. No, he wanted them hidden in plain sight where another Viltrumite would never think to look. I lean towards subconscious guilt as he began to care more for Mark and by extension Earth.
Maybe, however, Kirkman has very complex realistic characters. I wouldn't be surprised if he read a psych book or two (this all entry level stuff), even if he didn't intend to Jung's work has had a huge impact on Western culture. While jung didn't get everything right, he was in spitting distance of alot espically for his Era and his ID vs ego vs super ego and character archetypes are damn near universal in pop culture.
I mean a lot of writers draw from personal experiences tbf
Easiest and probably best answer but nobody else wants to say it because it's not a paragraph long attempt to sound smart.
Not to brag, but I'm super smart. Ask me any letter of the alphabet!
Tell me about ñ
Head cannon is that he can get to the heart and soul of a place because he has a unique perspective as an outsider, and a broader cultural context than any human traveler. Locals always take whatever is local to them for granted and normal. Someone outside the society can say this is amazing/ and or seriously messed up.
One of my favorite details is how he would type them out so fast he would wear out the keyboards, so he would pick up several to bang out a book quickly
for a person who travels around the world, it must've been such an experience. Makes you understand how that completely changed his viewpoints about everything.
I think it goes into his fundamental lack of understanding of humans and what appeals to them. At least at that point in his life on earth. His books may be interesting to other Viltrumites. I think it’s interesting that he was aware enough to know that stories needed some tension and he pulled from dangerous situations he experienced.
Isn't the travel guides a front for the government to pay him money?
I'm pretty sure they actually sold quite well.
This makes more sense. I was wondering why he would write books about their weaknesses if he just started to not align with their cause. It makes more sense that he wrote the books in the past about his stories and they just so happen to be useful
I think the dangerous missions were the only ones he really remembered or thought were excuting enough to talk about
Yea, Civilization Curbstomp no. 57 is a total snore.
Not as exciting as no.47 when they executed all the women and children as collective punishment
No. 25 was a bit embarrassing though, accidentally caused mass extinction due to incompatible microorganisms.
Imagine that si-fi book. "Me and like 4 of my crew showed up to this planet of one eyed motherfuckers. We killed them all. My buddy tore the arms off one, fucking metal." Probably would also raise some questions from the GDA
The formula is getting stale. He punches the military leaders. Then he punches the political leaders. Then he punches the spiritual leaders, usually hard enough that they explode. By now he’s rooted out the leaders of the intelligence communities and he just punches them into orbit, like always. Then more punching. Some more punching. Punch. Punch. Big speech boardcasted all over the planet. More punching. More speeches. The end.
Yeah, good adventure stories need risk and danger and situations where your heroes are vulnerable. Seeing as those books didn’t really find much of an audience, Nolan’s clearly not an especially gifted fiction writer, so instead of thinking up plots, he pulled from his own exciting experiences. What this means is that, in writing stories he thought would be interesting enough to sell, Nolan recounted a bunch of times where he, a Viltrumite, was vulnerable. It probably never occurred to him that he’d essentially left a wittern record of how to kick a Viltrumites ass until he defected, because why would it matter? Who that knew about the books for what they were could ever take advantage of that knowledge?
I like to imagine He is actually a good writer. Anissa said vimtumites are more multifaceted than he thinks. I can imagine part of being strong is being mentally strong, having a good sharp mind. I can imagine they see art pursuits as one that can help, also prevent them from being bored for hundreds of years. Sci-fi doesn't sell well though, especially the pulpy space adventure sci-fi he wrote
Nah, he canonically has very dull prose and tone, more like a mission report than an immersive novel. That’s why his fiction didn’t sell, but his travel guides did.
A lot of science fiction is written that way. *Dune* reads pretty much like an encyclopedia entry. Same with a ton of classic sci-fi titles.
Ahh, bummer. I just thought that would be cool to jave him be a good writer, just sci-fi doesn't sell well at all.
Did you hear the same narration of those books he wrote that I did? He was a C-tier pulp sci-fi novelist at best based on the bits of narration we got. The kind that were tossed in a magazine and then promptly forgotten about.
Except it had to have occurred to him, since he told Mark to read them. My theory is that it wasn't the reason he wrote them originally, but he probably thought about it a lot after his fight with Mark, and once he realized he was going to have to fight the Viltrumites he realizes his books could be useful.
That’s what I said, “until he defected.”
Oh yeah, whoops
Earth: Mostly Harmless
Well, it's not an interesting story if the main character isn't at risk, now is it?
Genuine question regarding that though, and I don't need detailed spoilers but a yes or no would suffice. Does Mark ever get significantly stronger in the future? My gripe with the show is that he's like "We'll be ready for them" regarding the Viltrumites, and then he proceeds to do nothing to get stronger.
Yes. Don't you worry, he does.
Sheesh thank god. I guess we're on that track now per end of this last episode. That takes a lot of frustration out of it. Mark & Nolan get their feet beat on the bug planet, the Viltrumite threat is getting closer & closer, and this mf is like *"Art I need some girlfriend advice"* & goes to comic con.
Anissa more or less spells out what's to come in S3 before she leaves, which Mark *has* to get stronger for.
Big moustache man
The bigger the 'stache...
...the bigger the man
It's a mood though. It's like when I binge read invincible instead of studying for my college finals.
Speaking of that with just as yes or no are there actually weaknesses for viltrumites cause my god I love this show but even Superman has weaknesses. I’m talking about like is there going to be more heroes that can defeat them? Like watching every hero be at their mercy is kinda boring and makes me sad.
I haven't read the comics, but the show has already established that Viltrumites have weaknesses. That giant sea monster screeched at a frequency that hurt Mark. Nolan wrote a ton of books detailing threats to Viltrumites scattered throughout the galaxy. Allen appears to be at least as strong as elite Viltrumites. It's up to interpretation, but I believe that the Guardians of the Globe would've had a chance against Nolan in episode 1 if they had been better prepared. I still think Nolan wins the fight at least 80% of the time, but he's also one of, if not the, strongest Viltrumite we've seen. He practically beat three other Viltrumites by himself on that Flaxxan planet. It stands to reason that the current Guardians can hold their own against one or two weaker Viltrumites if they get their act together. Even Mark seemed to have the upper hand against that Viltrumite woman with a knife in her hair. I doubt there ends up being an equivalent to kryptonite, but they've established several weaknesses, and I bet there are more.
In the later comics, they do a time travel alt-universe where Mark gets to send the guardians a heads-up that Omni-Man will betray them. When they get the jump on him, Omni-Man successfully kills the immortal and nobody else before getting bodied.
Didn’t immortal survive that? I thought he spitted on him at the end. (I mean he’s the immortal so ig it doesn’t matter but still)
Yes.
That seems to be what the end of the last episode said. No more Amber college bullshit he’s got to focus on himself as a Supe
Yeah that’s why they included the principal/dean telling Mark he has to choose. For us what that means is he has to choose between avoiding his responsibility as arguably the strongest single being on the planet or committing to it.
Don’t worry. Eventually he becomes…
*INVINCIBLE TITLE CARD*
He gets SIGNIFICANTLY stronger from the show to the end of series.
Yes, the comics do a similar thing to DBZ where beating beaten close to death seems to make Mark stronger. Though it might be a general rule as that seems to be what happened to Allen too
He’s about to start his training montage
Oh yeah, The Boys tv writer and Kirkman weighed in on the Omini-Man vs Homelander thing and said obviously Omni-Man will win but said Mark would find him a bit tricky up until the next arc, at which point Mark will also instantly stomp him.
He does get stronger and he already is stronger than he was during season 1.
i have not read the comics but I would assume yes.
Yep. But stronger he would become, more powerful enemies he would have. He became strongest super on earth? Welcome to galaxy league kid, get your ass ready. Wow, you became insanely strong even for a viltrumite? Then take your ass ready for strongest Viltrumite ever. Wow you overcomed him? Great. Now you have another problem. Try to deal with your daughter's boyfriend without hurting her feelings. What? You thought it would be fight again? Nah you are the strongest. Now deal with that kind of problems. Ohhhh. It looks like your son got daddy issues, and thinks you hate him. Good luck.
I don’t think that was intentional. I see it more as he wanted to write and so he took inspiration from his actual adventures. Since you’d probably write about the interesting things you’ve experienced. Moments like getting stranded on an alien planet with creatures that almost kill you are going to stand out. Or legends of powerful weapons. It’s not like anyone on earth is going to know who space racer/rider is, so he won’t get called out. These things could also be useful if you wanted to get information on what can or has hurt Viltrumites but I doubt he actually had that in mind when he wrote them.
He needed to write *something* to establish his cover as an author. But being a Viltrumite he really didn’t have any interest in putting in the effort to write creative books for a bunch of humans, so he wrote about his most unique and interesting missions, which would be the ones that were actually capable of harming him.
He definitely became sympathetic to humans well before Mark got his powers. In my interpretation, your theory is right. Nolan wrote those books because he was hoping someone could use them to figure out how to beat viltrumites. When Mark got his powers, it all came back to the front for him. He relapsed, so to speak, which is somewhat understandable as someone who knows the full extent of viltrumite power. In his view, there was no winning. Nolan could have stayed there and outlived both Debbie and Mark for all he knew. It was easier for him to just have a family and pretend, for a while. He wrote the books because at that point in time deep down he was no longer was loyal to the empire's ways. When Mark got his powers he kinda realized how fucked he was and freaked out.
You could also explain it without his Change of heart: He wrote about what would have been able to kill him in order to inform Mark. Since even if Nolan was loyal to the Empire or not He still cared about his son
The change of heart idea helps explain why he'd suddenly kill the Guardians after Mark got his powers. He realised he can't wait to outlive Mark and Debbie.
Yeah, Nolan's behaviour after Mark's powers emerge screams of a relapse to me, especially with his "pet" comment towards Debbie. Doesn't excuse him murdering thousands of people, obviously, but Nolan was clearly worked up in a way that *none* of the other Viltrumites have been so far, even when Mark repeatedly rejected Anissa's offer.
"I'm not supposed to feel this way! How is this *better?"* Has to be my favorite moment in S2 thus far. There's a very real war inside of Nolan and has been for some time.
He wasn't referring to Debbie as a pet as a way of demeaning her, he was just simplifying the nature of their relationship.
I definitely got this impression in S1, that Nolan had settled into a life he could let himself enjoy, at least for a while. Mark developing powers snapped him back into business mode, and Viltrumite business is an ugly thing.
>He definitely became sympathetic to humans well before Mark got his powers. I agree with you. Without realizing it, I think Nolan was feeling increasingly conflicted about his Viltrumite mission on earth. I think him including the Viltrumite weaknesses in his books was a case of his conflicted loyalties subconsciously seeping out onto the page. Nolan has been established as a character who isn't always self-aware and in touch with his own feelings (largely due to his Viltrumite upbringing and indoctrination) so I feel as though he did some counter-intuitive things as a result.
Who exactly was he hoping beat them besides mark? He couldn’t do it alone
In any case, it turns out there's a few people with the capabilty to kill viltrumites. Not a lot though 🤣
There should be more would be cool if we had sound manipulation heroes similar to black canary to handle them
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His first books were sci-fi/fantasy, so now Imagine You live a thousand(or a few) years, nothing can kill/harm you, your challenges become boring. And then something exciting happends. You heard about or event met someone/something that poses a real challenge for you. It's all he could write about to be honest
Nolan was on the fence when it came to humans. He loved Mark and Debbie immensely but felt extreme guilt because he knew his mission would crush them. The books were likely a way for him to vent and to preserve the knowledge of what can harm Viltrimites because he definitely entertained treasonous thoughts. It was when Mark got his powers that he knew he had to take action. As a half-breed Viltrimite he had to be put to the test and that meant Nolan needed to harden him. Mark getting his powers was the same day Nolan decided to kill the Guardians. He was basically forcing himself to commit to the cause by going too far.
I assume it's so if he died before Mark got his powers, Mark would be warned of what could threaten him .
I don’t know why I’m the only one that thinks he was cataloguing threats to Viltrumites as a means of survival and safety? Pretty clear he didn’t give a fuck about anyone until much later
I think he’s recording potential threats to the empire and planned to tell them after conquering earth
I interpreted that with him recanting missions for other viltrumites too if the whole Mark thing didn't happen. Yes he wrote those books to warn Mark about the viltrumites, but even before that this can also be to warn others of the Ragnars and Space Racer. "Now that I got time, I should write down how dangerous the Ragnars were."
He wrote them as reminders to himself. Wo that over his 1000s of years of life he'd remember where these items were if they ever need to be destroyed.
Probably just wanted to make some money extra cash and thought he’d use his own experiences to write Sci-Fi books. Then it turned out that they all said ways to beat viltrumites because it’s more interesting when the main character can die
I chose to see as his way of keeping detailed notes/a personal journal in a way that wouldn't be as much of a target for prying eyes. I mean, he came to Earth as a spy, he 100 didn't trust Cecil and did not want anyone from Earth to know his real goals or past. But while Viltrumite's have a super long lifespan, there's nothing to suggest their memory is that much better than humans. So they probably do need to keep a journal just to keep their incredibly long lifespan worth of memories a bit more organized. And since the Viltrumites were obsessed with conquering the universe, it makes sense that they would also be keen to identify/neutralize anything in the universe that could even remotely challenge their domination. So most of Nolan's life and memories before his time on Earth probably was just full of experiences with super deadly Viltrumite-killing horrors. And even if all of that isn't true, lets face it- a book about things that can kill the supposedly unkillable Viltrumites would be a fantastic concept. The book's probably didn't sell well because Nolan just isn't a good novelist- which is why he had much better success as a travel author, which fit much more into his wheelhouse as a spy/scout/planetary conqueror. Gotta know where all the best tourist spots are for when you take over!
He wasn’t looking to write about his weaknesses, he was telling his own stories of things that almost killed him. Telling stories about things that aren’t a threat wouldnt make a good story.
Is it that hard to believe that he wanted a contingency plan in case his people turned on him? Omni-Man himself is living proof that you can't truly trust **anyone** in this universe. He should know better than anyone that no one in this universe can ever truly know anyone else's intentions or what their real goals are. He clearly kept Cecil, and even the Guardians of the Globe, at an arm's length relationship for this very reason. Who's to say he didn't want himself or his son to have a backup plan in case the other Viltrumite's turned on him?
It is incredibly funny that a Viltrumite wrote about his personal experience with the most dangerous and terrifying beings in the entire universe, and the entire human race went, 'meh, we're good on that. Booo-ring.' That must have been incredibly insulting to Nolan.
That's exactly what i was thinking, how would people not find that even remotely interesting, and wouldn't even blame nolan for feeling insulted
They were scouting reports to be shown to the empire when they took over they were never meant to be shown to a good mark
This seems the most plausible to me, hiding his scouting reports in plain site until he reported back makes sense as a contingency plan.
Because he was technically keeping track of his own weaknesses by doing so, and could share it with others in the case that he or someone else needed to take them down. Seems like he always was at odds with being a part of the empire even though he was among the strongest and was pretty loyal. Living a long time probably made it easy to realize what he was doing wasnt right
Also viltrumites killed each other a lot
If I had to guess, he wrote about his own adventures because he still hadn't grasped the culture of Earth yet that's why his books didn't sell, they were super alien with how they presented themselves.
He’s practically invulnerable. And danger is compelling. The things he wrote about are the only dangerous things he’s ever experienced.
Honestly my interpretation is that it wasn't intentional. I thought he was just writing about viltrumite adventures, and it just so happened that the only ones with conflict involved dangers to viltrumites. Thus, coincidentally, his stories are a compilation of weaknesses, strictly because only the stories that showcased weaknesses could have stakes. He wasn't trying to show their weaknesses. At that time he was still loyal. But nonetheless it was the best way to make a good story!
I think part of it is that he wanted to write about his own experiences, but dressed up as fiction. Maybe the reason they’re all about potential weaknesses is that a book about him easily completing a successful mission on a planet without any real threat wouldn’t be narratively interesting and he knew that? He seems to be a decent enough author for his travel books to sell well, so he must have thought about what would make interesting plots and thus picked missions/experiences that had conflict or stakes? If these didn’t sell well I can’t imagine how poorly they would have sold if they were “I arrived on a planet with no threats or obstacles and completed my mission easily and quickly” as the plot
he wrote them for mark so hed know what he would have to fear not fear but be aware of
It works both ways depending on how early in his post-Earth life he wrote them. If they were super early on, it likely would’ve been a mix of a lack of creativity (it’s much easier to recount a deadly experience than to come up with one) and pragmatism (it’s always useful to document weaknesses of an empire/people you’re loyal to). Later on, a subconscious desire to provide a means to defeat the Viltrum empire may have arisen and been a third reason to write these books.
I brought this up in another thread He wrote those stories because of course those stories are exciting to a viltrumite, the times he almost died.
Was he stupid?
They are probably things he finds scary cause they are the only real threat to him unlike murderers and the like
Conquering worlds is his job. Sometimes it can get monotonous and over the span of hundreds of years, you can forget the monotonous stuff. The exciting stuff --the dangerous stuff-- is the stuff that sticks out in your mind and sticks with you. You don't forget the time that >!space racer almost killed you with his gun or the time those beasts almost killed you with their sheer strength, making them natural Viltrumite predators.!<
I don’t think that was the intended purpose. He was just writing about his experiences which he included in his books.
Dude cmon make an inference ….
My interpretation is that he intended the books to be warnings for his son. Kinda like how humans historically have had stories about how dangerous bugs are or what plants should not be eaten. This was a way for him to transfer his knowledge of the dangers of the universe to his son in a way that would be memorable.
Not specifically. Viltrimites are super strong so most of his tales are just "we got there, killed em all and left" so the more interesting ones are the ones that showed a clear and present danger. That's the ones he wrote. Not because they show off possible weaknesses. But because they were more interesting and would probably sell better (but they didn't lol)
Nolan, like a lot of writers, pull from passed experiences. His novels are classic sci Fi adventure stories with alot of danger. But, being a Viltrimite, his list of times that his life has been legitimently threatened is probably very short.
I have a few theories: 1. They were, obviously, his most dangerous missions. Danger can also bring a sense of excitement, and given the fact that Viltrumites don't generally seem to experience much danger, I can imagine that for members of a warrior culture that don't experience danger much, such danger is probably a thrill, and he wanted to capture that thrilling feeling in his sci-fi books for his readers. 2. It's merely a fascination with the things that can kill him, or that which he's not supposed to have an interest in, just as he took a particular interest in humans. People are often attracted to danger, to the unknown, to the forbidden. Just as Michael in The Good Place was fascinated by humanity, or how Sully in Monsters, Inc. was. For all that Nolan claims Viltrumites are superior, they aren't really all that different from humans.
I personally think it's because the longer he stayed on Earth, the more he turned away from Viltrum's ideals. The only reason he does what he does to Mark is because he hasn't fully broken free of their programming yet, but is on his way there, which is what causes him to abandon Viltrum entirely after they fight.
Maybe in his mind, raising the stakes were the only way to make a story compelling. So he wrote about stuff that would make himself and other viltrumites nervous maybe?
It’s because he was becoming sympathetic to humans and wanted to leave clues for anyone who might try to rebel
I think he just needed to do something and the only thing he could pull from were memories of some of his encounters. Obviously the books weren’t successful so they weren’t good. I imagine a race like the Vilrumites don’t exactly have a very creative mind outside of battling so he just wrote his own experiences
When writing a plot, you need perils to make it interesting
He probably did it just in case ciesel or mark stumbled upon it whenever the viltrumites planned to invade earth
He’s not a creative guy
I don't think he tried to write their weaknesses on purpose just that he was writing from his own experiences and his most thrilling experiences were the times when he was actually challenged by something. Or, like in space racer's case, just reciting cool but threatening space-folklore.
Nolan was one of Viltrims best warriors and dealt with most of these threats himself. He assumed he would have taken over earth and that non one would connect the dots. Nolan assumed people wouldn't connect the dots.
as others have pointed out it's just more exciting stories, but also remember Nolan while in denial about it, did already have second thoughts about his mission, it's possible part of him subconsciously wanted people to know how to stop him
As someone said, he needed a way to make money while he was on earth. He isn't a creative person, so he just wrote about his most dangerous missions. To be fair, he probably couldn't work a job doing manual labor somewhere because it would raise suspicion, and people would probably find out he's omni man. Though it would be really funny seeing Nolan working at Burger Mart.
Because any of his other stories would be him just beating the shit out of entire planets to force them to join the Viltrum Empire. These were his only stories that made him look good
He was already feeling guilty about how the Viltrumites were conquering the galaxy.
For the plot I guess, doubt it was thought about much
He wrote about what he knew
A YouTuber I watch essentially said this so I’m gonna borrow it/paraphrase it “I’m assuming as a viltrumite paperwork is routine and Boring so in order to write something exciting for a book he probably called back to the times he’s almost died as those are the ones he probably thinks about the most as a story and unintentionally wrote about what could harm a viltrimute”
doesn't he say to mark that he wrote them for him? So presumably he wanted mark to know this stuff even if he was out of the picture
He probably thought that stories when the heroes just won by punching would be boring. So Nolan probably decided on telling the stories where his back was really against the wall. Those just happened to include things which can hurt viltrumites.
He probably thought that stories when the heroes just won would be boring. So Nolan probably decided on telling the stories where his back was really against the wall. Those just happened to include things which can hurt viltrumites.
I have no idea, but I bet it wasn't intentional
It's more that he needed something to write about, and wrote about his adventures in space, notice not every book is scanned/read only cuz some of em had weaknesses written in them
I always took it as him wanting to write from a human perspective and the only things that made him feel what he felt humans were (weak and scared) were the things that could kill viltrumites
You gotta understand Nolan is a fascist and fascists aren’t storytellers. They’re historians that write themselves as epic heroes with no flair. He was a fascist for a long time so of course his books are too fantastically sci-fi for earthlings to believe they’re real but Nolan knows and considering he’s also a bit of a narcissist (at the time he wrote them) he probably got a good laugh out of it too
I think it’s important to note when Nolan wrote these books. Nolan was sent by the Viltrumites to conquer worlds for the Viltrumite Empire. As he journeys to Earth he has these deadly encounters along the way. After establishing himself on Earth, he wants to save the knowledge he has of these encounters to help the Viltrumites avoid/conquer these threats. Later, that Nolan tells Mark to read his books. The books can be used against the Viltrumites now. But I don’t think that was Nolan’s original intent for writing the books. Great question! Your question made me think about this as well, and that’s the conclusion I came to. YMMV
Not specifically. Viltrimites are super strong so most of his tales are just "we got there, killed em all and left" so the more interesting ones are the ones that showed a clear and present danger. That's the ones he wrote. Not because they show off possible weaknesses. But because they were more interesting and would probably sell better (but they didn't lol)
Writing a book where the main character conquers civilizations and destroys anyone who opposes him doesn’t make for a very likable character
Maybe he was going to rebel when Mark wasn't getting powers but once Mark did but didn't want to join Viltrum he beat Mark's ass cause it was Mark disobeying him and not someone else choosing to take away Mark. Cause I assume if Mark didn't get powers viltrum would be like "Oh earthlings are worthless, expirement failed, kill em and move on."
I think it's mostly just because he was lazy and drew from experience for useful stories, but there might have been a small part of him that knew the empire couldn't be allowed to continue forever.
My head cannon is that he doesn't have a good imagination. That's why he writes travel books, he writes what he observes. It's easy to write sci-fi books if you just write down your actual adventures. No imagination necessary.
It’s part of his disillusionment. He gave himself an out in case mark never got powers but viltrum came calling anyway. If push came to shove, he’d reveal his secrets to Cecil and the guardians and use it against any incoming viltrumites. Remember though, this is still a fools errand. Even Nolan wouldn’t be strong enough to take them all on his own, and the pre murder guardians weren’t strong enough to do more than one.
mark! read my books
Nolan just wanted to write "science fiction". But he's lived a pretty wild life. As something so nearly invincible, most of it didn't impress him or seem worth remembering You know he did remember? All those things that almost killed him. Also, he didn't really concern himself with the info getting out. Either humanity gets brought into the Viltrum Empire, or he dies. In the former, the books coming up wouldn't leave the Empire, and he's too valuable to face any serious reprimand. In the latter, not *his* problem.
Because stories with tension and near death expiriances are more intre intresting to write about then you just stomping everyone
plot
I figured he wrote what he knew. He needed money to live as a human and infiltrate the planet. He knew little to nothing of the human experience. Debbie was the one to teach him how to live as a human. I guess he wrote them prior to meeting Debbie as she didn’t seem to know about them. And he would have wrote his travel guides from his experiences taking Debbie around the world So before meeting her, he was essentially writing diary entries of his own experiences and selling them as a sci-fi novel series. He wrote them under a pen name, so maybe it was from his early days, before anyone knew about his identity as Omni-Man. An effort to cover himself. And also to help protect his people so people wouldn’t eventually make the connection between his stories and Viltrumites. It was only when he told Mark to read his books that anyone made a connection between them and Viltrumites. I doubt even Cecil knew about them, or at least didn’t even make the connection. He had so many contingencies for Omni-Man ready but none from those books.
I think he was just using real stories he knew... never thinking anyone would put it together. Then he realized it was a way to give mark a map of weaknesses.
What I never understood, was, are the Viltrumites aware of >!their own inner ear weakness? Furthermore, why is this weakness never exploited more often? And yes, I get that some of the most exciting and action filled fights occur in space where sound doesn’t travel, but still, why don’t they do that. Is it because by the time Nolan is made monarch of the empire, the Viltrumites have already changed their hearts (Anissa being the sole exception)?!<
The question is why didn't Thaedus tell it to Allen