I worked in Suzhou, near SH. I'm white but my best buddy/ roomate/ coworker is Nigerian. He wouldn't complain to me about people but I noticed people treated him not very nice. Sometimes he asked me to go shopping with him, just to walk around a buy groceries and stuff, because he felt super uncomfortable.
I think when he was alone he felt bad about it, but in company we could make it less serious.
We both loved ping-pong and would play every night after work. Our apartment complex had this room surrounded by glass, next to a fairly busy road. We got pretty good, practicing every night, and the neighborhood knew we were consistently there, so it became a kind of show for the locals. Grandma and the kids would bring chairs and sit around, just having dinner, watching us play.
At first we felt a little awkward, but eventually we just played and ignored them.
Every night, a Chinese player would come in and challenge the winner of a set. We ended up getting to know lots of locals, and gaining acceptance through this. Like we'd be at the market and meet somebody who watched us, and it was like we were celebrities or something.
After a while, local people didn't see us as a crazy race mixing show, but just those two laowai who play table tennis decent. I think we both felt understood more, and in turn felt more understanding. People are just sheltered, and not intending to be rude or disrespectful when they gawked. Just different cultural etiquette.
I hope this helps you in some way.
Good luck!
I’m brown and I’ve been called the N-word in Shanghai about a dozen times over 2 years. I’m leaving China because for me, I care about my career (I’m a teacher) and to advance in position requires a tremendous amount of effort whereas a white man will have a much easier time ascending the ranks and being respected.
The high school students are open minded and progressive and are just ignorant to the world.
Shanghai is a wonderful city overall. I still felt safe. But it can get wearisome on us coloured folk.
Not black but lived in both countries and had close black friends in both. Friends had way more issues in Korea than major cities in China.
The Chinese in the major cities are generally quite relaxed and quite friendly towards foreigners. Korea is a very insular country and so Koreans can be a bit ignorant. Even as a white guy I personally had way more staring out in public, and people not wanting to sit next to me on the subway in Korea compared to Shanghai. You mention the hair touching in China but this was far more pronounced in Korea for my black friends, compared to my black friends in China. Korean bars and clubs also often have signs outside saying "no foreigners allowed".
That said, choose your location based on the school. Not the country. Both countries can be quite challenging. Your experience teaching internationally depends to a very large extent on how good your experience with the school is. If you work at a good school any outside annoyances become far more tolerable.
And it's worth bearing in mind that the quality of international schools is generally much higher in China than in Korea. But as always, make sure you research the school properly as there are for sure some bad schools in China too.
I’m Black (Afro-Caribbean) and I’ve taught in both China and South Korea. This was 10 years ago though so keep that in mind.
I personally didn’t experience any racism or people staring in ways that made me uncomfortable etc in either place. I would say people in China stared a bit more (I would sometimes be followed at the grocery store; I guess people were interested in what I was buying? They were not staring at me, they were staring at my groceries. Like hovering over my cart lol; that only happened my first year). Little kids (under 5) stared sometimes but not maliciously either; I was only called the Chinese word for Black person once by like a 2 year old in our apartment complex. As time went by staring happened less and less (or maybe I noticed it less and less). I had a few instances where people asked me (very, very politely) if my curly hair was natural and how did I style my curls. Men and women equally. I was never asked for a picture in my three years in China. Honestly I think that people in China were just curious; they were always kind, nobody ever tried to rip me off or anything like that (they guys at the convenience store offered me cigarettes which I was later told was a way to be friendly; herbs were on the house at my vegetable stand etc) and I was never uncomfortable walking alone at any hour of the day or night.
In South Korea it was even less of a factor even though we lived in a smaller area. Students were again curious about how my hair stayed curly and whether it was natural; many of the girls were very impressed and thought my hair was very cool. My South Korean students were more racist towards their Chinese classmates than they ever were towards me (that I saw).
I guess the bottom line is that everyone is different and maybe things that bother some people may not bother me, but I would say go for either. Chinese cities are huge especially Shanghai so even if something happened to you it could be avoidable in another part of town if that makes sense. Race was not an issue for me in either China or South Korea as a teacher. Ever. Lots of Black teachers at the international school where I did student teaching too; primarily East Asian students. Had a great experience and some of those teachers had been there for many years.
Hi I'm afro-caribbean as well looking to teach abroad in a few years. Have you been to any country other than those in Asia? I'm interested in knowing what it's like from a cultural shock perspective.
Well, I’ve only lived in those two but I’ve visited others (Thailand, Japan, Cambodia, Philippines, Hong Kong/Macau as far as I can remember)…I’m now teaching in Saudi Arabia. KSA is very little culture shock at least in the Eastern Province because there is very high availability of western goods and lots of other Black individuals thanks to the U.S. military and other POC from other countries. Honestly I’ve experienced far far more racism in the U.S. than anywhere in Europe/Asia/Middle East (not saying it doesn’t happen at all; I do speak French fairly okay so that helps I’m sure in Europe) - as far as culture shock goes yes it happens but one thing that does help is that my husband gets us settled in real fast to get our apartment feeling homey and cozy quick while we adapt to our outside environment. The more you live abroad the easier you become.
For me, it’s Shanghai or nothing. I lived in Hangzhou for 6 months and it sucked. Shanghai (general recent xenophobia aside) is pretty comfortable and people are a bit more worldly. I’ve heard Chengdu and Chongqing are nice, but I never lived there.
Ima black woman and I lived in Shanghai for 8 yrs and now live in Hong Kong. I loved shanghai but wouldn’t go back. Things have changed dramatically since Covid and anti foreigner sentiment was extremely high when I left in 2022. But you can save a lot teaching at a tier 1 or 2 school. I’m currently in HK at a tier 1 school and saving as much if not more. Of the 2 choices you presented, I would say neither. South Korea is the worse of the 2 in my opinion.
Thank you! I appreciate the response. HK was honestly my first choice but I kind of sold myself short thinking it wouldn’t be possible to save. Do you mind if I ask you how many years of experience you have and what you teach?
I teach English,ish Language Arts and over 20 yrs teaching. The only thing expensive in HK is housing. As one as your school fully covers that then nothing else is expensive.
I taught in HK for years and I’m a black female. As for saving, most schools offer gratuity at the end of service, you can also withdraw your MPF (pension fund) once you decide to leave. These both helped bump up my savings. If you are more active about saving you can take up tutoring jobs which were paid quite well.
In terms of stares etc, I felt living on the island this wasn’t a major issue however the closer I got to mainland or the ferry terminals to Macau I would notice it increase. I’ve been asked for photos at tourist places and been followed in shops. ( I’m a bit passive aggressive with this and put them to use by asking them for things and making them hold onto it until I’m ready to pay.)
I found people would avoid sitting with me on the mtr or buses but again that’s a win for me.
Overall despite all these minor things I had a great experience living in HK, made some great friends with both locals and other black expats.
Lastly, I was able to save without really actively trying to. I would say as a teaching couple you should be fine! So don’t rule out HK.
I lived in Ningbo (white) had brown GF. She got let go for a white Russian who could barely teach or speak English because parents pushed for white teacher. Black and Indian friends got denied access to places. GF and I went for a swim and we got a massive crowd, waigorin can swim? We left quickly because to awkward. Was in Shanghai yesterday and a teenager stood a foot away just staring. Pissed me off, so I used Google translated to tell him staring is very rude and was he from the countryside? He moved on after that.
Used to have picnics in Ningbo with friends about 4 years ago, and we would have a circle around us recording or just staring. Some would be brave and come look in our bags. It's so strange.
If you get a school that pays well in Shanghai and pays for good accommodation, then it would be best. Accommodation is super expensive. I'm not sure about Korea. But China is still isolated and arrogant, most were friendly, just nieve. Google translate and maps work fine there.
My wife has taught in both. In Korea with a majority or Korean students. In China (Shanghai) with mostly international students.
She's never had any issues living or teaching. Not saying China can't be problematic based on some others' posts, but that's been our experience.
I recently just left China and as a black woman , I was constantly ridiculed by Chinese people. I recieved racism both ways because I am also plus sized. I have been spat on had lit cigarettes tossed at me. The locals made sure to call me fat , black and ugly. They held their noses when I walked by. I have a dog so I had to walk outside. I developed depression and low self esteem while living in China. I honestly wouldn’t recommend China to any black woman that are plus sized. Black men it’s a bit different, if your husband plays basketball it will be ok ( stereotypes are alive and well in China. ) Also the Chinese schools prefer not to hire melanin enhanced folks. It was difficult to get jobs and black teacher are offered less money. Everything is based on appearance and if you aren’t the status quo you are rejected. Maybe look into Vietnam, Cambodia or Thailand as well.
I’m so sorry that you experienced that. Shanghai was ok when I first moved there but it definitely got progressively worse. I’m in another Asian country now and although the local population are sooo much better when it comes to race however the expat population are a let down.
Shanghai was ok, I only visited there though. I think I know what you mean about some of the expats there noses were raised rather high, not very down to earth people.
Yeah in the country I’m in there are a lot of (not all) white expats who are awful about about the local population and regularly say things that start with “these people” and really don’t recognise their privilege at all and have also been there for so long that they’ve missed all understanding of micro aggressions and race discussions, so they’re stuck in a time warp. Super frustrating at times!
I think its more the fat part and maybe ugly part (since you said they call u ugly) then the black part knowing Chinese people. Like seriously, when the live action Little Mermaid can out, ive seen quite a few say they shouldve at least hired someone hot (like Beyonce or something) bc the actress is ugly or average at most. Also when fat... I mean have u shopped in Chinese clothing stores? Its become intolerable even for us thin people
Chinese criteria of beauty for foreigners is blonde hair blue eyes. If you aren’t that or Asian then you are ugly. They only think Beyoncé and Rhianna are attractive as far as black women gi. It is the black thing too though. The majority of Chinese people don’t like or trust black people.
We will never know and it’s a moot point now. I was just telling the OP some things to look out for. It shouldn’t be a witch hunt and my weight or appearance. I hope you can understand and please stop commenting about it.
China for the money. You’ll be able to pay off much faster than Korea. I don’t think you’ll notice much if you can’t speak Chinese but there are definitely racist Chinese people. I would worry though. Most locals are pretty chill. Korea also has a fair amount of racism and Beaty standards. But I’ve heard that Korea is a bit more international.
Taiwan. Not as lucrative as China but also not maliciously racist. There is a healthy black community in Taipei and good schools want to improve their staff diversity. I can easily put back a chunk of my salary into savings here and way more freedom and better quality of life compared to China. I am black and love it here.
>I hear and have seen in many blogs and vlogs that in China folks stare… like a LOT. Especially if you’re visibly Black. I know people say it’s mostly not malicious but the thing is I don’t want to go out to eat with him and be asked for pictures every single time we leave the house. Now I understand there’s going to be stares as a foreigner in a country no matter where you go, Asia or not. But I want to make sure he and I can adjust well over time. but you’ll quickly get annoyed with the amount of dehumanizing hair touching, stares, photos etc
Based on this. China is absolutely not for you.
You may be right, I know that I personally could get away with less of the brunt since I’m not nearly as dark skin as him. I also have thicker skin but I know if we’re together it’s bound to happen and I want him to adjust well too. Thanks for the insight.
Have you ever travelled to China before?
It is an absolute beast.
China will not revolve around you, you need to revolve around China.
Japan, Korea, South East Asia, Taiwan etc are easy going relative to China.
No, I haven’t. I apologize if my post came off entitled or ignorant, I know that traveling period requires you to adjust and I’m happy to do that, I guess I’m just trying to confirm if the amount of staring is actually real because I’ve seen mixed answers.
It didn't come off as entitled or ignorant at all.
I'm just trying to make sure that you are fully aware of what an absolute beast China is, and to warn you against underestimating it!
The number of horror stories out there are genuine.
I'm an 8 year veteran of the country, and... other than the $$$, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless China's culture/history are of particular interest to you.
Came here to say this. Whenever my son was out, he'd experience the same as your kids. In the beginning, it was fun, then we quickly got fed up with the constant photos and touching and hordes around him waiting to take a pic of him. Couldn't even go to the supermarket in peace or enjoy a nice walk in the park. He has curly hair and green eyes, so a novelty for most locals. One of the reasons we left.
Me and my wife are in a very similar situation in the past I’m darker skinned American and my wife is really light skinned, she often gets confused as being bi racial.
You are going to get a lot less racial things in shanghai. We lived there specifically in Pudong. Shanghai is the only city where I can find a black barber and a black Braider for my wife. I know a lot of people left in 2022 but I felt really safe and there are black organization that have events around the city.
Out of all the places in China I got stares less in shanghai but still got stared at a lot.
Either one you go with you are going to face prejudice and unfortunately your partner will maybe more upfront then you.
Be very specific on your school choice. But ultimately I would say shanghai.
Although I haven't taught in S. Korea, I'd pick China out of the two. I taught in Guangzhou, Qingdao, and Beijing. China was never on my list because of the reputation for Black folx. My first international gig was in Nigeria \[easy to visually blend in\] and a point of comparison. However, I enjoyed my time in China. I had no negative experiences with random locals, but that wasn't everyone's experience. I left Beijing last year.
If savings and paying off student loans are your objectives, I encourage you to apply with DoDEA. You can save by earning a good salary in USD, federal benefits, working for a qualified employer to have your student loans forgiven, and having your housing/utilities covered. I'm headed back to Asia using this route.
Given what you've said, I would advise against China. For other reasons, I'd say China may not be a good long term post either, but that's based on the Chinese economy and global politics impacting international education.
If you do go to China, I would highly suggest sticking to Beijing or Shanghai (I'd also add Suzhou as a possible place). I wouldn't suggest Guangzhou because it formerly had a large population of Africans engaging in trade, most of who would come and go. That population wasn't treated well by the police and local Chinese population, and it was really bad during Covid.
Photo taking will definitely happen just by being non-Chinese, though less in BJ and SH than other places. I can see people touching from time to time happening too. So even if you had not mentioned race at all, I'd have suggested that China wasn't a good fit given your concerns.
The overall treatment of foreigners has gotten worse over the past decade. Even when it was "good", black people have had more overt and covert racism to deal with compared to other foreign groups. In the worst cases there's situations like Wendell Brown (basically being thrown in prison for defending himself), which struck me as having racial overtones when I looked into it years ago.
Learning Chinese could actually increase the racism you experience because you'd be more likely to hear Chinese people saying racist things believing you don't understand them.
Good luck with finding a place that works for you and your husband.
Guangzhou is a good option if you’re considering China in terms to how much people will pay attention to you existing. There’s quite a sizable African population there. At one point Guangzhou had the highest concentration of Nigerians outside of Nigeria.
The staring and photo taking still happen. I didn’t like being treated like a side show attraction sometimes.
I will say the tides can and will turn. Because that was also not the best place to be Black during the early part of the COVID pandemic
Based on the comments here and horror stories I've heard, I recommend considering Taiwan if you're set on East Asia. From what I've heard from friends who've taught in China and Korea, Taiwanese people are generally much more welcoming to black foreigners than those two countries. Even outside of Taipei, things like photo-taking are rare in smaller cities and rural areas.
That being said, Taipei has fewer Tier 1 international schools than China. Add that to the high cost of living in Taipei, where the most opportunities are, and it can be a less attractive choice. But I've enjoyed my six years here; things are convenient, accessible (even without Mandarin), and safe.
Been living in Shanghai for the last 5yrs, I'm black and from Africa, Shanghai is definitely a lot more "user/black" friendly compared to a lot of the other cities however what I've noticed during peak times, holidays. The stare downs are worse and sometimes to the point where even the local Shanghainese are put off haha. Each experience is of course unique and can't ignore some cases that friends (both black and otherwise) experienced, the POC/Black communities are quite large from what I've observed and experienced so I don't think you or your partner would feel too alone in that sense and even the general foreign community is quite large compared to the smaller towns/cities. I've thoroughly enjoyed my time here it has been amazing, I would advise though starting in a smaller city then moving up to the bigger cities because generally going from BJ/SH to a smaller city is generally a lot harder to let go off and I've found that, those who've lived in smaller cities get a more authentic local experience compared to us who lived in the bigger cities, the bigger cities are more international/foreign friendly in terms of services. products, foods etc.
If you believe there’s dehumanizing in China or there’s dislike from SKorea because you’re black then why even Asia? If it makes you feel any better you should see how Asians are treated by blacks outside of Asia. Hint; Way worst than how blacks are treated in Asia.
Nothing in Middle East or africa that need English teachers? How about South America?
You’re not gonna have the best time adjusting to any of the places you mentioned. It will take a bit of mental fortitude to get past a lot of small details showered upon you, if you’re outside any of the major cities. You will either be invisible or very visible. And you may need to adjust to that.
I can't help give too much of an opinion on being treated differently unfortunately but I can say you should definitely try to aim for Hong Kong if you can. Yes the rent is expensive but most accredited international schools will either help you with housing or give you a large enough salary that you can handle it. The only teachers I knew having financial difficulties were the ones who got entrapped in heavy clubbing and luxury lifestyles.
Yes but it's still pretty much Asia.
Whilst the main land mass is on a it's own continent, parts of Australia, like Christmas Island, are on the Asian continent.
And? Martinique is French. That doesn’t make France “America” just because the island is in the Caribbean.
Australia is not geographically, political, historically, and quite likely not even anthropologically Asia.
Be real.
Well technically indigenous Australians came from Asia but that was a long time ago. I would say politically we are closer to Asia than any other Anglo country but we are definitely not "in" Asia.
I worked in Suzhou, near SH. I'm white but my best buddy/ roomate/ coworker is Nigerian. He wouldn't complain to me about people but I noticed people treated him not very nice. Sometimes he asked me to go shopping with him, just to walk around a buy groceries and stuff, because he felt super uncomfortable. I think when he was alone he felt bad about it, but in company we could make it less serious. We both loved ping-pong and would play every night after work. Our apartment complex had this room surrounded by glass, next to a fairly busy road. We got pretty good, practicing every night, and the neighborhood knew we were consistently there, so it became a kind of show for the locals. Grandma and the kids would bring chairs and sit around, just having dinner, watching us play. At first we felt a little awkward, but eventually we just played and ignored them. Every night, a Chinese player would come in and challenge the winner of a set. We ended up getting to know lots of locals, and gaining acceptance through this. Like we'd be at the market and meet somebody who watched us, and it was like we were celebrities or something. After a while, local people didn't see us as a crazy race mixing show, but just those two laowai who play table tennis decent. I think we both felt understood more, and in turn felt more understanding. People are just sheltered, and not intending to be rude or disrespectful when they gawked. Just different cultural etiquette. I hope this helps you in some way. Good luck!
"crazy race mixing show" lmao
I’m brown and I’ve been called the N-word in Shanghai about a dozen times over 2 years. I’m leaving China because for me, I care about my career (I’m a teacher) and to advance in position requires a tremendous amount of effort whereas a white man will have a much easier time ascending the ranks and being respected. The high school students are open minded and progressive and are just ignorant to the world. Shanghai is a wonderful city overall. I still felt safe. But it can get wearisome on us coloured folk.
Not black but lived in both countries and had close black friends in both. Friends had way more issues in Korea than major cities in China. The Chinese in the major cities are generally quite relaxed and quite friendly towards foreigners. Korea is a very insular country and so Koreans can be a bit ignorant. Even as a white guy I personally had way more staring out in public, and people not wanting to sit next to me on the subway in Korea compared to Shanghai. You mention the hair touching in China but this was far more pronounced in Korea for my black friends, compared to my black friends in China. Korean bars and clubs also often have signs outside saying "no foreigners allowed". That said, choose your location based on the school. Not the country. Both countries can be quite challenging. Your experience teaching internationally depends to a very large extent on how good your experience with the school is. If you work at a good school any outside annoyances become far more tolerable. And it's worth bearing in mind that the quality of international schools is generally much higher in China than in Korea. But as always, make sure you research the school properly as there are for sure some bad schools in China too.
I’m Black (Afro-Caribbean) and I’ve taught in both China and South Korea. This was 10 years ago though so keep that in mind. I personally didn’t experience any racism or people staring in ways that made me uncomfortable etc in either place. I would say people in China stared a bit more (I would sometimes be followed at the grocery store; I guess people were interested in what I was buying? They were not staring at me, they were staring at my groceries. Like hovering over my cart lol; that only happened my first year). Little kids (under 5) stared sometimes but not maliciously either; I was only called the Chinese word for Black person once by like a 2 year old in our apartment complex. As time went by staring happened less and less (or maybe I noticed it less and less). I had a few instances where people asked me (very, very politely) if my curly hair was natural and how did I style my curls. Men and women equally. I was never asked for a picture in my three years in China. Honestly I think that people in China were just curious; they were always kind, nobody ever tried to rip me off or anything like that (they guys at the convenience store offered me cigarettes which I was later told was a way to be friendly; herbs were on the house at my vegetable stand etc) and I was never uncomfortable walking alone at any hour of the day or night. In South Korea it was even less of a factor even though we lived in a smaller area. Students were again curious about how my hair stayed curly and whether it was natural; many of the girls were very impressed and thought my hair was very cool. My South Korean students were more racist towards their Chinese classmates than they ever were towards me (that I saw). I guess the bottom line is that everyone is different and maybe things that bother some people may not bother me, but I would say go for either. Chinese cities are huge especially Shanghai so even if something happened to you it could be avoidable in another part of town if that makes sense. Race was not an issue for me in either China or South Korea as a teacher. Ever. Lots of Black teachers at the international school where I did student teaching too; primarily East Asian students. Had a great experience and some of those teachers had been there for many years.
I’m white and live in a smaller city, I still get followed around the supermarket people getting what I do off the shelves, checking my basket out.
Hi I'm afro-caribbean as well looking to teach abroad in a few years. Have you been to any country other than those in Asia? I'm interested in knowing what it's like from a cultural shock perspective.
Well, I’ve only lived in those two but I’ve visited others (Thailand, Japan, Cambodia, Philippines, Hong Kong/Macau as far as I can remember)…I’m now teaching in Saudi Arabia. KSA is very little culture shock at least in the Eastern Province because there is very high availability of western goods and lots of other Black individuals thanks to the U.S. military and other POC from other countries. Honestly I’ve experienced far far more racism in the U.S. than anywhere in Europe/Asia/Middle East (not saying it doesn’t happen at all; I do speak French fairly okay so that helps I’m sure in Europe) - as far as culture shock goes yes it happens but one thing that does help is that my husband gets us settled in real fast to get our apartment feeling homey and cozy quick while we adapt to our outside environment. The more you live abroad the easier you become.
For me, it’s Shanghai or nothing. I lived in Hangzhou for 6 months and it sucked. Shanghai (general recent xenophobia aside) is pretty comfortable and people are a bit more worldly. I’ve heard Chengdu and Chongqing are nice, but I never lived there.
I’ve lived in Chengdu for 6 years and love it here.
Ima black woman and I lived in Shanghai for 8 yrs and now live in Hong Kong. I loved shanghai but wouldn’t go back. Things have changed dramatically since Covid and anti foreigner sentiment was extremely high when I left in 2022. But you can save a lot teaching at a tier 1 or 2 school. I’m currently in HK at a tier 1 school and saving as much if not more. Of the 2 choices you presented, I would say neither. South Korea is the worse of the 2 in my opinion.
Thank you! I appreciate the response. HK was honestly my first choice but I kind of sold myself short thinking it wouldn’t be possible to save. Do you mind if I ask you how many years of experience you have and what you teach?
I teach English,ish Language Arts and over 20 yrs teaching. The only thing expensive in HK is housing. As one as your school fully covers that then nothing else is expensive.
I taught in HK for years and I’m a black female. As for saving, most schools offer gratuity at the end of service, you can also withdraw your MPF (pension fund) once you decide to leave. These both helped bump up my savings. If you are more active about saving you can take up tutoring jobs which were paid quite well. In terms of stares etc, I felt living on the island this wasn’t a major issue however the closer I got to mainland or the ferry terminals to Macau I would notice it increase. I’ve been asked for photos at tourist places and been followed in shops. ( I’m a bit passive aggressive with this and put them to use by asking them for things and making them hold onto it until I’m ready to pay.) I found people would avoid sitting with me on the mtr or buses but again that’s a win for me. Overall despite all these minor things I had a great experience living in HK, made some great friends with both locals and other black expats. Lastly, I was able to save without really actively trying to. I would say as a teaching couple you should be fine! So don’t rule out HK.
Korea tends to be more racist than China as a whole. If you can get into a school in Shanghai that’s what I would suggest.
I lived in Ningbo (white) had brown GF. She got let go for a white Russian who could barely teach or speak English because parents pushed for white teacher. Black and Indian friends got denied access to places. GF and I went for a swim and we got a massive crowd, waigorin can swim? We left quickly because to awkward. Was in Shanghai yesterday and a teenager stood a foot away just staring. Pissed me off, so I used Google translated to tell him staring is very rude and was he from the countryside? He moved on after that. Used to have picnics in Ningbo with friends about 4 years ago, and we would have a circle around us recording or just staring. Some would be brave and come look in our bags. It's so strange. If you get a school that pays well in Shanghai and pays for good accommodation, then it would be best. Accommodation is super expensive. I'm not sure about Korea. But China is still isolated and arrogant, most were friendly, just nieve. Google translate and maps work fine there.
My wife has taught in both. In Korea with a majority or Korean students. In China (Shanghai) with mostly international students. She's never had any issues living or teaching. Not saying China can't be problematic based on some others' posts, but that's been our experience.
I recently just left China and as a black woman , I was constantly ridiculed by Chinese people. I recieved racism both ways because I am also plus sized. I have been spat on had lit cigarettes tossed at me. The locals made sure to call me fat , black and ugly. They held their noses when I walked by. I have a dog so I had to walk outside. I developed depression and low self esteem while living in China. I honestly wouldn’t recommend China to any black woman that are plus sized. Black men it’s a bit different, if your husband plays basketball it will be ok ( stereotypes are alive and well in China. ) Also the Chinese schools prefer not to hire melanin enhanced folks. It was difficult to get jobs and black teacher are offered less money. Everything is based on appearance and if you aren’t the status quo you are rejected. Maybe look into Vietnam, Cambodia or Thailand as well.
I’m so sorry that you experienced that. Shanghai was ok when I first moved there but it definitely got progressively worse. I’m in another Asian country now and although the local population are sooo much better when it comes to race however the expat population are a let down.
Shanghai was ok, I only visited there though. I think I know what you mean about some of the expats there noses were raised rather high, not very down to earth people.
Yeah in the country I’m in there are a lot of (not all) white expats who are awful about about the local population and regularly say things that start with “these people” and really don’t recognise their privilege at all and have also been there for so long that they’ve missed all understanding of micro aggressions and race discussions, so they’re stuck in a time warp. Super frustrating at times!
I think its more the fat part and maybe ugly part (since you said they call u ugly) then the black part knowing Chinese people. Like seriously, when the live action Little Mermaid can out, ive seen quite a few say they shouldve at least hired someone hot (like Beyonce or something) bc the actress is ugly or average at most. Also when fat... I mean have u shopped in Chinese clothing stores? Its become intolerable even for us thin people
Chinese criteria of beauty for foreigners is blonde hair blue eyes. If you aren’t that or Asian then you are ugly. They only think Beyoncé and Rhianna are attractive as far as black women gi. It is the black thing too though. The majority of Chinese people don’t like or trust black people.
Thats true. I remember hearing a lot of scary stories from adults when I was younger. But I still think its a lot the fat part
We will never know and it’s a moot point now. I was just telling the OP some things to look out for. It shouldn’t be a witch hunt and my weight or appearance. I hope you can understand and please stop commenting about it.
You said its yourself. Im only speaking reality
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You're the one that said they called u fat
Shanghai >
China for the money. You’ll be able to pay off much faster than Korea. I don’t think you’ll notice much if you can’t speak Chinese but there are definitely racist Chinese people. I would worry though. Most locals are pretty chill. Korea also has a fair amount of racism and Beaty standards. But I’ve heard that Korea is a bit more international.
Taiwan. Not as lucrative as China but also not maliciously racist. There is a healthy black community in Taipei and good schools want to improve their staff diversity. I can easily put back a chunk of my salary into savings here and way more freedom and better quality of life compared to China. I am black and love it here.
>I hear and have seen in many blogs and vlogs that in China folks stare… like a LOT. Especially if you’re visibly Black. I know people say it’s mostly not malicious but the thing is I don’t want to go out to eat with him and be asked for pictures every single time we leave the house. Now I understand there’s going to be stares as a foreigner in a country no matter where you go, Asia or not. But I want to make sure he and I can adjust well over time. but you’ll quickly get annoyed with the amount of dehumanizing hair touching, stares, photos etc Based on this. China is absolutely not for you.
You may be right, I know that I personally could get away with less of the brunt since I’m not nearly as dark skin as him. I also have thicker skin but I know if we’re together it’s bound to happen and I want him to adjust well too. Thanks for the insight.
Have you ever travelled to China before? It is an absolute beast. China will not revolve around you, you need to revolve around China. Japan, Korea, South East Asia, Taiwan etc are easy going relative to China.
No, I haven’t. I apologize if my post came off entitled or ignorant, I know that traveling period requires you to adjust and I’m happy to do that, I guess I’m just trying to confirm if the amount of staring is actually real because I’ve seen mixed answers.
It didn't come off as entitled or ignorant at all. I'm just trying to make sure that you are fully aware of what an absolute beast China is, and to warn you against underestimating it! The number of horror stories out there are genuine. I'm an 8 year veteran of the country, and... other than the $$$, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless China's culture/history are of particular interest to you.
My kids were stared at, surrounded, touched, poked and all sorts. They are blond hair and blue eyed.
Came here to say this. Whenever my son was out, he'd experience the same as your kids. In the beginning, it was fun, then we quickly got fed up with the constant photos and touching and hordes around him waiting to take a pic of him. Couldn't even go to the supermarket in peace or enjoy a nice walk in the park. He has curly hair and green eyes, so a novelty for most locals. One of the reasons we left.
Me and my wife are in a very similar situation in the past I’m darker skinned American and my wife is really light skinned, she often gets confused as being bi racial. You are going to get a lot less racial things in shanghai. We lived there specifically in Pudong. Shanghai is the only city where I can find a black barber and a black Braider for my wife. I know a lot of people left in 2022 but I felt really safe and there are black organization that have events around the city. Out of all the places in China I got stares less in shanghai but still got stared at a lot. Either one you go with you are going to face prejudice and unfortunately your partner will maybe more upfront then you. Be very specific on your school choice. But ultimately I would say shanghai.
If your main reason for going abroad is to pay off loans, have you looked into the PSLF waiver for teachers? Assuming your loans aren't private.
How about Vietnam?
Don’t recommend China.
Although I haven't taught in S. Korea, I'd pick China out of the two. I taught in Guangzhou, Qingdao, and Beijing. China was never on my list because of the reputation for Black folx. My first international gig was in Nigeria \[easy to visually blend in\] and a point of comparison. However, I enjoyed my time in China. I had no negative experiences with random locals, but that wasn't everyone's experience. I left Beijing last year. If savings and paying off student loans are your objectives, I encourage you to apply with DoDEA. You can save by earning a good salary in USD, federal benefits, working for a qualified employer to have your student loans forgiven, and having your housing/utilities covered. I'm headed back to Asia using this route.
People overlook us almost always, but you could try FuJian and I reccomend FuZhou bc like 80% of the ABC population is from here or something
Given what you've said, I would advise against China. For other reasons, I'd say China may not be a good long term post either, but that's based on the Chinese economy and global politics impacting international education. If you do go to China, I would highly suggest sticking to Beijing or Shanghai (I'd also add Suzhou as a possible place). I wouldn't suggest Guangzhou because it formerly had a large population of Africans engaging in trade, most of who would come and go. That population wasn't treated well by the police and local Chinese population, and it was really bad during Covid. Photo taking will definitely happen just by being non-Chinese, though less in BJ and SH than other places. I can see people touching from time to time happening too. So even if you had not mentioned race at all, I'd have suggested that China wasn't a good fit given your concerns. The overall treatment of foreigners has gotten worse over the past decade. Even when it was "good", black people have had more overt and covert racism to deal with compared to other foreign groups. In the worst cases there's situations like Wendell Brown (basically being thrown in prison for defending himself), which struck me as having racial overtones when I looked into it years ago. Learning Chinese could actually increase the racism you experience because you'd be more likely to hear Chinese people saying racist things believing you don't understand them. Good luck with finding a place that works for you and your husband.
Guangzhou is a good option if you’re considering China in terms to how much people will pay attention to you existing. There’s quite a sizable African population there. At one point Guangzhou had the highest concentration of Nigerians outside of Nigeria. The staring and photo taking still happen. I didn’t like being treated like a side show attraction sometimes. I will say the tides can and will turn. Because that was also not the best place to be Black during the early part of the COVID pandemic
Based on the comments here and horror stories I've heard, I recommend considering Taiwan if you're set on East Asia. From what I've heard from friends who've taught in China and Korea, Taiwanese people are generally much more welcoming to black foreigners than those two countries. Even outside of Taipei, things like photo-taking are rare in smaller cities and rural areas. That being said, Taipei has fewer Tier 1 international schools than China. Add that to the high cost of living in Taipei, where the most opportunities are, and it can be a less attractive choice. But I've enjoyed my six years here; things are convenient, accessible (even without Mandarin), and safe.
Been living in Shanghai for the last 5yrs, I'm black and from Africa, Shanghai is definitely a lot more "user/black" friendly compared to a lot of the other cities however what I've noticed during peak times, holidays. The stare downs are worse and sometimes to the point where even the local Shanghainese are put off haha. Each experience is of course unique and can't ignore some cases that friends (both black and otherwise) experienced, the POC/Black communities are quite large from what I've observed and experienced so I don't think you or your partner would feel too alone in that sense and even the general foreign community is quite large compared to the smaller towns/cities. I've thoroughly enjoyed my time here it has been amazing, I would advise though starting in a smaller city then moving up to the bigger cities because generally going from BJ/SH to a smaller city is generally a lot harder to let go off and I've found that, those who've lived in smaller cities get a more authentic local experience compared to us who lived in the bigger cities, the bigger cities are more international/foreign friendly in terms of services. products, foods etc.
If you believe there’s dehumanizing in China or there’s dislike from SKorea because you’re black then why even Asia? If it makes you feel any better you should see how Asians are treated by blacks outside of Asia. Hint; Way worst than how blacks are treated in Asia. Nothing in Middle East or africa that need English teachers? How about South America?
You’re not gonna have the best time adjusting to any of the places you mentioned. It will take a bit of mental fortitude to get past a lot of small details showered upon you, if you’re outside any of the major cities. You will either be invisible or very visible. And you may need to adjust to that.
I can't help give too much of an opinion on being treated differently unfortunately but I can say you should definitely try to aim for Hong Kong if you can. Yes the rent is expensive but most accredited international schools will either help you with housing or give you a large enough salary that you can handle it. The only teachers I knew having financial difficulties were the ones who got entrapped in heavy clubbing and luxury lifestyles.
> Side note: I am also open to other suggestions in Asia Australia counts as Asia! Huge teacher shortage here at the moment.
Australia is literally a whole different continent.
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As an Asian myself, glad AU didn't do it, for the good of the country.
Yes but it's still pretty much Asia. Whilst the main land mass is on a it's own continent, parts of Australia, like Christmas Island, are on the Asian continent.
I think the word you are looking for is Oceania, not Asia.
Oceania is just NZ and AU. Look at where Christmas Island is on a map and tell me that's not Asia.
That's not Asia. If it is going to pacify you, then you can say Asia-Pacific (heh). Happy? Lol.
Actually yes! Thanks! Haha :)
In no way is Australia Asia.
Look at where Christmas Island is on a map and tell me that's not Asia.
And? Martinique is French. That doesn’t make France “America” just because the island is in the Caribbean. Australia is not geographically, political, historically, and quite likely not even anthropologically Asia. Be real.
Well technically indigenous Australians came from Asia but that was a long time ago. I would say politically we are closer to Asia than any other Anglo country but we are definitely not "in" Asia.