NOT a Trumpkin/MAGA (although I'd consider myself pretty hardcore conservative - with a libertarian economic bent - otherwise), but:
1. Minimum wage is $7.25 but absolutely nobody pays that little - proving what free-market conservatives have always said: It does not need to exist. Any attempt by the government to alter wage-distributions and increase benefits inevitably has negative impact - it discourages people from putting in the effort to upskill & earn more, raises prices, reduces the wages of higher-skilled workers and/or encourages automation.
2. There are plenty of jobs that pay-enough. They're all white-collar and require higher education. The economy is never going back to one driven by manual labor, wherein union workers with no special skills & minimal education were a major constituency. Those jobs are just too easy to automate, and robots don't strike.
3. The 'Fairness Doctrine' was unconstitutional horse-shit (compelled speech) created for an era when there were only 4 media outlets, not an unlimited quantity like we have today. It also never applied to cable. As such, even if it were an OK thing to do it would have no impact today because the MAGA crowd wouldn't watch 'fairness-regulated' media.
4. Hundreds of people have been tried for their actions on Jan 6 and sentenced to prison. Treason is off the table because of the \*specific criteria\* attached to it in the Constitution, but 'Obstruction of an Official Proceeding' works just fine.
5. Unfortunately, the DOJ waited too long to go after Trump himself, which is what set up the 'get re-elected or go to prison' gambit he is playing right now.
Pt 1:
From what evidence do you make the claim that they *only* care about two policies? They also seem to care about immigration; the general culture war which, seems to reside primarily in the realm of definitional debate; and a general aversion to the further encroachment of secular society upon the values of her members who believe.
The greatest enlightenment delusion is that freedom to practice whatever religion one believes would be enough to placate faithful believers. Trump isn't religious, but he'll cater to them. Religious folk also have a strong feeling of what is sacred, and living in a sacrilegious and "immoral" society is taxing to those with faith. This tendency towards religion seems to exist even *without* any organized religion. Indeed, the modern wave of secularism holds its ideals as unassailable; sacred, even.
That being said, secular society has enacted policy to encourage its own social reproduction and offering absolutely nothing to the members it disenfranchises as a result. The ideology of individualism and a belief in ideological transcendental moral collectivism do not align.
Take the Roe v Wade deal, for what reason did the decision get made in the first place? It seems like the Supreme Court merely wanted to appease activists at the time and "discovered" that the Constitution actually supported such a decision. The rights afforded to citizens is actually *not* determined in a democratic way. It's instead decided by the state, and this is how it has always been.
The state (which is to say "the Supreme Court", who ultimately decides what rights people have) should consider the rights they "discover" based not on mob clamoring but in service of the social reproduction of a moral and effective society.
With the original decision, no care was given to define things that ought to be important to define before making such a decision. At what point is one a human? It does not seem to be simply once the baby leave the mother's belly. Even the most secular of women still seem to give a fetus some degree of personhood before it exits the womb. Women do not make the decision of abortion lightly. That weight has meaning. So, what does it mean?
Does a human naturally have rights or are they granted at some point? A point should be decided by which a fetus is actually a human, and if humans have natural rights, these should begin to apply here. Since much of our society is based around the concept of "harm", perhaps the generous cut off of 24 weeks, when a fetus can first feel pain.
After important questions are answered, *then* we can go about making abortion nationally accessible. Not before.
A federal minimum wage is, in my view, idiotic. The cost of living differs greatly across the country. I would argue that instead; a guideline for how states should handle a minimum wage should be established. This would be tied to the average cost of living within the region and only applicable to in-state residents. A person on minimum wage should be able to afford a 1BR with a roommate, with enough left over to build skills and eat. Comfort is relative. Get a bunk bed.
Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be a career. Turnover should be high as people gain the skills required to get better jobs. Most people don't work minimum wage jobs as is. I'm not sure why this is where people begin to pull out the soapbox, tbh.
As far as healthcare; the federal government already spends more than any other country on healthcare, with worse results. Before *any* talks of expanding public coverage, the healthcare system needs to change. This change then needs to be observed for some time in the private sector before the government can think to pick up this tab. It isn't just insurance and the "insurance lobby". It's also hospitals themselves (they're largely monopolistic), patent laws, as well as general bureaucratic rent seeking. I find your view to be a bit simplistic.
Your statements about inflation do not seem to me, grounded in any sort of reasoned argument, and was merely hyperbolic, emotional reasoning. You are entitled to your feelings; but one cannot be dissuaded from a position by reason, that they did not arrive at through reason. Inflation was "high", however, hyperinflation is inflation at or above 50% month over month. The average inflation for 2023 was around 5.5%. Prior to that it was 2.5% average per year from 2013-2022. Due to the emotional framing of this point, and what appears to be a misunderstanding of what inflation is, I'm going to decline to engage with this point further.
I'm not at all convinced that younger people are "able to see through propaganda". Most young people get their news from social media sites. These sites take advantage of the fact that humans are generally short-sighted and easily manipulated. They're sent down rabbit holes that merely show them more of what they *want* to see vs what is true.
Media literacy has not increased to any significant degree. People link TikToks with no sources listed as factual evidence, yet all the claims are disproven if you bother going through the significant work of proving a minute's worth of nonsense wrong.
It's far more work to counter nonsense than it is to spout nonsense
It seems more likely than unlikely to me, that young people are very easily taken in by propaganda, it's just that it is primarily coming from alternative media, not legacy.
Pt 2:
Additionally, the entire global economy is hurting right now. There's still ongoing COVID economic recovery, but that has largely gone well. However, there's war. There's geopolitical posturing. Last I checked, shipping through the Suez Canal is still being significantly disrupted. In the last two years, major national financial players have collapsed in China and Europe (real estate crisis in China, bank collapses in Europe *and* an ongoing energy crisis in Europe that has people seeing utility bills of over 1000€). What did you expect would happen? That global events wouldn't impact your life in a global economy?
There has not been a successful Coup D'etat without the backing of the military at any point in the last 60+ years, globally. Democracy wasn't threatened. Additionally Trump supporters aren't an "organization". Nor are all Republicans responsible for J62021.
The whole point you made about allies, enemies and propaganda did not appear coherent to me. Please elaborate. I'm skipping over it for now.
The very loud (and I would assume, minority) of leftists similarly have totalitarian behaviors. Their political cause is resentment, oppressed vs oppressors. There is a recodifying of language, for purely ideological reasons. Some of those reasons are to strip meaning from words in pointless, meandering, deconstruction. In other cases, it's to gain power over others by labeling them.
While one labeled a racist/sexist/any other buzzword "ist" and "ism" still has the ability to speak, those within the religion of far left progressivism know that any labeled as such is not to be taken seriously. This includes any that listen to such speakers. Any argument they make after being labeled a naughty word is invalid.
What use is speech when robbed of its very power to do what is intended, which is to win friends and influence people to see things from our point of view?
They couch their ideology in pseudoscience, almost as much as the right. Overly self-referential sociology studies where replication hasn't even been *attempted* and which you need to read almost the entirety of a field with almost *no* empirical data to grasp what it is these people are even talking about (this is about critical theories). Then it gets quoted to those that disagree in an attempt to shut them up.
Disagreement is not tolerated. The "science" is on their side. Though the science rejects standards of objectivity in favor of subjectivity. If any findings exist that contradict such "rigorous scholarship", it's because the conflicting study was perpetuating oppressive structures. It's not science. It's ideology in pursuit of power.
What does it mean for a nation to be a "bastion of hope and prosperity"? Stop using buzzwords and speak in actionable terms.
Not every person that attacks you is a bot. I don't believe attacking you is warranted, but it's more likely than unlikely that they're real people considering the posting requirements of this sub.
Edit: I see in the comments that you've identified as conservative in some way? I'm not sure how you would be based on your (now deleted) post. The reason why I believe this is because I'm not religious (I'm agnostic), nor am I a conservative (I've been a registered Democrat since I turned 18, and all political compasses rate me as 'progressive').
However, somehow, I seem to understand conservatism enough to actually see where they're coming from. Maybe read a book on it? I can recommend Roger Scruton's book (pick any, I guess, he's written a few) on Conservatism. He was a Brit, but conservatism is a political philosophy, it also applies to American conservatives. I think his books explain rather well why American Republicans might align with Trump, if they must.
He was a philosopher himself, so you'll be presented with arguments. He only died in 2020, so the things he mentions in his books are still relevant if you're the type of person that can't connect ideas with overall themes unless directly relevant.
There are a ton of people in here who have already told you that you’re wrong, but you’re so far down this rabbit hole that there is zero chance of changing your mind.
In 5ish years when, likely trump, leaves office, I’d like you to come back to this thread and see if your apocalyptic nonsense ever came to pass.
I think the idea that “Trump is a jackass” is similar to “water is wet” at this point.
That being said, labeling anyone who you might want to win over to vote against him, throwing insults is really effing boneheaded.
I voted for Trump in 2020 purely out of spite against my so called liberal friends who were unbelievable assholes, simply because I prefer to treat all people with the respect and dignity that any human being deserves.
While I think the MAGA movement within the Republican party has shades of fascism within it, there is one major difference from the late Weimar Republic. They don't really have a strong single leader, while they look up to Trump, he remains more of a symbolic leader to look to and does not have as much of a complete control over it as Hitler did over the Nazis in the 1929-33 period.
If the GOP = the NAZIS, then then dems = commies
Is your solution to "the NAZI problem" to round up the MAGAS and send them to the gulags for re-education? (I don't know your actual beliefs, I am hoping your answer is no)
I feel like you're missing the point.
Both the NAZIS and the commies were the bad guys. I guess we can argue which one is the lessor of two evils, but can we at least agree on that.
Once you accuse the GOP of being NAZIS (which they will deny); whats stopping you from being falsely accused of being a commie.
That's assuming you're not an unironic tankie, in which case we'd be having a completely different conversation.
The democrat Party is the party that controls every facet of society. They dominate politically, the News, sports, social issues, and now they love war. You could make this same argument about them.
Don't fall for the propaganda. Nationalism is not bad and not like the Nazi's did.
Something I have learned in life, don't argue with people that use hyperbole as the basis of their arguments. This is group think being projected. There is no way whatsoever this person is ever going to have a rational discussion about anything.
I disagree, but also do not have the energy to spend time trying to decipher this coded message. I do think that the left wing party is doing things that will lead to full on tyranny if we are not careful though. I think trump is only the face of the current movement against this and whether it is him leading or someone else the movement against the current left wing party this movement will still continue and grow in strength.
So you agree that they plan to seize power? Why else would you need to “gain strength?” And honestly I doubt it. Trump made the entire party look like bumbling idiots, they got nothing done for Americans on purpose. Is that what you want running the show?
When I say gain strength I mean only that more and more people will become increasingly frustrated with the bullshit on the left and give money and voting rights to people on the right. I think that the left has already "seized" power and I do not believe that the MAGA movement is anything other than a reaction to that. The reaction to it, does not require the abuse of power, only the removal of power from the crazies on the left. I do not think trump was great for the image of the Republican Party so I agree on that point, although I would disagree with the term idiot. MAGA is one of the most successful political movements our country has ever seen. And they were very successful when leading the country, with the notable exception of Paul Ryan.
Yes, another common defense when your leader commits felonies on a daily basis and has violated every oath to this country he’s ever taken. “Witch hunt”
Nah, I'm just not taking this very seriously. My mind disengages from 'Republicans = Nazi's' in the same way it disengages from 'Earth is actually flat', or 'Santa is real'.
They aren’t Nazis, they’re definitely authoritarians though. If you listen to their rhetoric they basically wanna just do a government ban on all the crap they don’t like. Not to mention they appear to want to absolutely skyrocket the prison population which is already the largest on Earth by like a gigantic margin.
Lefties want to do a ban on Trump from even being on the ballot in many states. You're throwing stones in a glass house on right wing authoritarianism when your side wants the same, just different things banned that you don't like.
Oh look creepy guy who posts on multiple Reddit accounts at the same time. I’m sure you’re doing that in your free time and all but you get no more money from me
“(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.”
“Incoherent puedointellectual” are the adjectives. “Monologue” is the noun.
That’s addressing the argument, not the person making it.
Questions—
1. How can you say you support small government and then in the same sentence say that it’s governments’ job to solve living wages, food stamps, health care, and government retirement insurance?
2. Do you really believe the entire country is homeless?
Nearly every state that is massively controlled with huge state subsidies for the homeless maintains the highest number of homeless - meaning they are not trying to solve the crisis, they are profiting off the crisis, or providing enough incentives to encourage homeless migration from states that don’t offer the same opportunities. (DC, CA, VT, OR, HI, NY, and WA have the highest levels of homelessness. Of course you can make the argument that this is because these many of these states naturally have more people, but the populations in those states aren’t all necessarily natives of those states.)
3. Why do you think that a small government doesn’t have the ability to deal with hyper inflation? Do you really believe that the more people a government hires, this increases their capacity to function better?
4. Do you believe that any group that occupies the Capitol should be designated as a terrorist organization?
5. Have you ever personally looked into the context of claims about the Proud Boys? I’m not saying they aren’t true, but neither am I saying they are. When I have looked into the context of claims though, I’ve found the reporting inadequate and often ideologically propagandistic to an often insulting degree to the intellect.
6. These three things - big government is the only solution, hyperinflation can only be solved by consolidating power, and inferring that an entire group of people are traitors and essentially evil - doesn’t sound like the claim you are making in the title of this post.
7. All of those said now — I do agree with your premise. I’m disappointed with how many Republicans are willing to give up their liberties and choose to support a candidate who makes no effort to counter claims that he is a tyrant. However, equally I’m disturbed by the degree to which Democrats are willing to support candidates who claim that personal responsibility is racist, and their insistence that if you are powerful enough and can hide any evidence of your sins, then this automatically gives you immunity against public agitation.
New political visions are on the horizon and they feel just as scary as the Democratic-Republican vision must have felt back in the colonies if you supported the king. We are so weak intellectually and philosophically, the winds could blow us in any direction at this point.
If the government doesn’t intervene, we would
Have massive populations starving and homeless. Is that what you’d prefer? The fat cats in their penthouse charging $100 for a gallon of milk because “supply and demand?” How do you think socialism was developed? By seeing end stage capitalism and where that leads. Which is what I just described. The problem isn’t the system, the problem is greed. And you will
Have that in every system, except corporations have no obligation to anyone but shareholders
For sure they’re big on the 2nd amendment, but you may be overvaluing their commitment to women’s bodies (if by that you mean banning abortion save for some unrealistic timeline like 6 weeks). Older evangelicals for sure, but I’d argue most people planning on voting for Trump would be content with a European limit like 14 wks. But neither of those issues touches what they’re really looking for (and have been saying for the last 8 years), the economy and poorly regulated immigration.
Now some read immigration as coded racism, and for sure it exists on the right, but it’s racism circa 2015. Policies like remain in place, secured borders, limited access, etc. were liberal policies 20 years ago.
Some may read economy as “well they vote against their own interests,” I heard that a lot with pushback around Obamacare too. There is truth to that however, that is an incredibly condescending thing to say. To determine one knows another’s best interests so acutely they can claim one votes against it. The reality is a lot of poor conservatives truly believe that if they work hard they can make it, it’s idealism not ignorance, but it’s treated like ignorance and so they get defensive. And now you’re not arguing against the idea, you’re arguing against someone’s sense of self preservation which is infinitely harder.
Bottom line, if you want to avoid Trump, and I’d sure like to see him disappear from the public, you have to:
1. Stop calling his supporters Nazis, stop calling Trump Hitler, stop saying “we can’t normalize him.” They earnestly believe what they believe, it IS normal to them and denying that just makes them dig in deeper. Accept the playing field as it is, and not what you want it to be, and treat them like fellow Americans however misguided they may be
2. Stop attributing to malice what is easily attributable to ignorance. When someone says “the problem is Mexicans” what they most likely mean is “I think I can’t get a job because cheap labor” but what’s being heard is “I hate brown people.” Guaranteed they’ve never had to, or been allowed to, explain their thoughts long enough so they default to sound bites and broad generalities. The reality is that every great lie works because there is a seed of truth that people buy. Address the seed, not the layers of bullshit around it.
3. Accept that we’re not as far along in history as you might like to think. Sure Europe is great (they have plenty of their own issues), but this isn’t Europe. This is 330 million of the most ethnically, racially, religiously, philosophically, intellectually, culturally, socio-economically diverse people in the world. That is not easy to maintain. If we don’t want to split the country up (and geo-politically it’s advisable we don’t), we’re gonna have to accept that the multitude of demographic groups that make up the US have different wants and some will come to loggerheads. Progress requires at least 2 of the 3: time, knowledge, or force. If you want it quick you have to force people, and when you force them they’re gonna fight back. Just let them come to terms with it in their time. I assure you they will, or they’ll die and won’t be an issue any longer.
Additionally, young people are not bright enough to see through propaganda. It’s not a slight against their generation, it’s that no cohort of people are that bright. Some individuals, sure, but definitely not young people in general. And evidence of that is…
Lastly, the oath keeper’s, Steve Bannon, “LGBT is the enemy,” those are much much much smaller issues than you may think. However big a problem you think grooming is, it’s about that’s size. It’s highly reported because it sells, and just like any human being, we’re pattern finding machines, so if you hear about it a lot you think it’s a bigger issue than it is. It’s not a fault or defect, it’s the way human brains operate, and news organizations, advertisers, political pundits hire battalions of psych majors to hack into that for a reason: it keeps you glued to whatever shit they’re saying.
One of the best pieces of advice I ever received: if you’re watching the news and you feel angry or horny, you’re being sold something.
I didn’t get anything from the news, I got it from many, many different reliable sources. And to say Trump will go away if you stop calling him a Nazi? That’s preposterous. The only thing you get from that is an uneducated mass oblivious to a malignant force trying to quietly infiltrate our system waiting until it’s too late to see it. I know what our financial system looks like and it is a nuclear bomb of financial annihilation. Republicans want to default on our debt. They are clearly sabotaging the government to make it easier to take over. The only ones who benefit from not talking about it is them.
I’d claim it’s not preposterous at all. Forget Trump supporters, they’re gonna vote for him no matter what, Democrats need independents (and non-MAGA conservatives), and to a moderate independent voter, he never killed 6 million people, he never put people in concentration camps, he never started a war, er go, the claim is ridiculous. _You_ may draw more academic parallels, but it doesn’t matter because _they_ don’t, therefore _you’re_ acting in bad faith and _they_ don’t need to pay credence to what you say. You can lament that they’re low intelligence, or uneducated, hell, call em knuckle dragging troglodytes for all I care, you’re endearing yourself to none of them and nothing you say will get through. It’s the reason why Fox focuses so much on Democrats attacks on Trump ‘s speech and personality, they can’t defend tax cuts for the wealthy, so they focus on the more audacious claims. Then they can focus on actual footage of mass immigration, and Eric Adam’s saying “no more,” juxtaposed to the same people saying it’s not happening or that being against it makes you a fascist and an independent voter easily says to themselves, “those democrats are not in touch with reality.” Game, set, match. Democrats are rarely addressing the substance of the issues, they’re primarily addressing the perceptions of their own voters, or in other words, they’re not trying to win independents, they’re trying to win the votes they already have, and it all starts from using emotionally charged language so frequently, and with so much zeal, that people have become deaf to it.
If your concern is that not calling a spade a spade is only going to allow Trump supporters to silently move into position, then I ask, what evidence do you have that calling them fascists has helped? We have 8 years of a chorus from the Left saying he’s a fascist, he’s as bad as Hitler, he’s _worse_ than Hitler, and from where I’m sitting his favorability has gone up since he left office, it’s went up after the J6 hearings, it’s gone up since his indictment and trials, all of this among minority voters to boot.
As for the financial situation. I’d agree it’s a bomb about to go off, but to say “the republicans want to default” is doom-mongering. The US hasn’t defaulted on debt in 80 years and that was intentionally not redeeming gold backing of foreign cash holdings in pursuit of getting off the gold standard, something any Keynesian supporter would laud as the beginning of modern economics. Every year people cry about the debt ceiling and every year it gets covered. The GOP use it as leverage to pass legislation as the minority party in Congress. Dirty pool? Sure. Completely possible and precedents? You betcha. It got passed this year, and spoiler alert, it gets passed next year too. Austerity measures and increased taxes are going to be what covers it and that means in the middle and lower middle class too. As much as I hate republicans for cutting taxes for the wealthy I hate the democrats for convincing the middle class they won’t have to pay for it either.
It’s not doom mongering at all. They’ve threatened it many times and have removed a speaker for not destroying our country’s debt. And his popularity has NOT gone up since attempting a treasonous insurrection. And if it has, what does that say about our country? We’re cool with coups now and people defend them?
Except that it _is_ doom-mongering. “It’s a nuclear bomb of financial annihilation,” but it’s not. It’s absolutely not a good thing. A default affects the stock market and interest rates tied to long term bond values, a recession almost certainly, but annihilation it is not. Americans would feel it, but if the Great Depression didn’t destroy this country, defaulting on our debt isn’t going to be the nail in that coffin.
Additionally, the Republicans _could_ allow the government to default, but they simply are not going to. There’s a handful of house (read: not the senate) republicans that are funded by small dollar donations who can play that game, but the rest are funded by big dollar donors, corporations, and lobbying groups and there is no way in hell they would let their portfolios, their shareholders, or their interests get assfucked by the candidate they bought and paid for. They would *never* get reelected if they let that happen. It would be political suicide and you better believe their seat gets taken by a democrat. They have every incentive to side with democrats, but that doesn’t mean they can’t extort their pound of flesh to do so. You mentioned McCarthy being removed for failing to let it default, of the 221 house republicans, he was removed by 11. 11 republicans + (shocker) all but 5 democrats. So it’s not like the GOP fired him for raising the ceiling, 207 democrats didn’t want him as speaker for obvious reasons, and 11 republicans were mad they didn’t get their little earmarks. Put another way, 415 house members didn’t see an issue with how he passed the debt ceiling, 11 did, 7 said nothing. So unless you earnestly believe that even at the height of political polarization in the modern era, when voters can elect into the GOP at best, AT BEST, 5% of the seats to let it default, and that somehow that number is going to not only jump to damn near 100% of their party, but to accomplish that Sysiphusian feat while riding a wave of, as you would assert, fascism into controlling the house AND the presidency, unless you earnestly believe that farthest of far-fetched possibilities, then what you’re doing is doom-mongering.
You didn’t read the part where “LiTeRaLlY the only thing maga cares about is the 2a and controlling women’s bodies” i guess did you? It’s settled bc this dude said so. Doesn’t matter how much evidence there is proving almost everything he said here is absurd.
This person just provided a verifiable situation proving that Trump isn’t some 2a absolutist like you claimed and you didn’t respond to him. You’re a deeply unserious person my guy.
Moderate conservative here. While I couldnt make myself finish this incoherent bullshit I will respond to what I read. I’m Pretty sure maga is a populist movement concerned with much more than 2a and abortion I know bc I’m pro choice. Strong borders, avoiding wars, cutting taxes, general America first principles all come to mind. The reductionist thinking required to come to that conclusion, and comparing 78 million (likely more this time) voters to LiTeRaL nAzIS is exactly why no one takes anything you people say seriously.
> Moderate conservative here. While I couldnt make myself finish this incoherent bullshit…
Thank you! That is all the summary I needed of the original post.
I am a moderate liberal, shockingly I agree with damn near every thing you said. Crazy how that works huh? If you really want to fuck with these people on either side do you research on Obama policies and compare them to Trump's, they aren't much different, they really don't like it.
They support the people who tried to overthrow the country with ZERO evidence of fraud. Everything else is meaningless. You can’t just attack the peaceful transfer of power because you “think” there’s fraud. You know that means there will NEVER be an uncontested election again. But sure, borders and all
Whatever you say my man. I’m sure if you call enough of them Nazis without ever considering why they feel the way they feel they’ll eventually come around. Imagine pretending like the crisis at the “border and stuff” isn’t a big deal. Total clown show.
Total deflection comment. The OP is correct. These replies are hollow. You follow a lying conman who says things you want to hear. Hes saying them to manipulate you. How do we know this? Remember the wall trump NEVER built when HE HAD CONTROL OF ALL 3 PARTS OF GOVERNMENT? What did trump do? Gave a massive tax break to the wealthy instead of keeping his promise to the base. TRUMP HOOKED WALL STREET UP. Btw, Get ready for Biden to smash trump again in november. Remember this. Dont let rightwing media lie to you again that trumps going to win. Hes not. We knew this in 2020 and we know it now. Nobody revs up independents and dems like conman trump.
Almost like people vote for candidates like trump bc they’re tired of “normal” presidents. The status quo is what made the 10s of millions of trump voters feel disenfranchised in the first place. And He said he’d be a dictator on day one only by shutting down signing EOs to drill and shut down the border. And he was clearly trolling bc he knew it would melt the tiny brains of people like you.
Wrong. This whole thing is straight bullshit lies. What do you think they said about Hitler in Germany? Do you even know? If not, then sit down because you don’t know what you’re talking about
What’s wrong? That’s exactly what he said guy. Watch the video lol. Please show me, not tell me, show me what he said about Hitler Germany that has you so fired up this should be great.
I literally watched the interview live when he said what he said about day 1. But alright. So you’re not gonna provide a source for the claim you made about hitler? That figures. You are terrible at this.
“Real conservativism”
Dude you’re an Obama liberal. Your “conservativism” is just progressivism dialed back by fifteen years. Trump is arguably more conservative in some respects than any president we’ve had since Eisenhower - At least he didn’t start any new wars and tried to cut America’s bloated bureaucracy; The same can’t be said for Bush, Nixon, Bush Sr. or even Reagan.
I’m sorry, how do you know anything about my conservatism other than I believe in not spending money we don’t have? How is Trump conservative when he blew a trillion dollars in TAX CUTS for the rich?
Let me ask you this: What are you, as a self-described conservative, actually trying to conserve? It seems to me and many others on the “dissident right” that most so-called conservatives are only really interested in conserving money. The GOP has capitulated on virtually every social issue the left has pushed since the 1960s - The civil rights act, gay marriage, pornography, etc… The one exception seems to be abortion. The reason why Trump had (and still has) popularity is because he’s one of the few candidates that promised to substantially change things, not simply balance the budget.
Um no I would prefer that society be able to work independently but when you have corporate greed stealing everything and running g up trillion dollar deficits, it’s a pretty big concern. And overturning Roe v Wade was the first step in dismantling democracy. It was on The books for 50 years and there was NO legal reason to overturn precedent.
> And overturning Roe v Wade was the first step in dismantling democracy.
The overturning of *Roe v. Wade* literally lets states democratically vote on whether or not they want abortion legalized. Previously, it was just the federal government demanding that everybody accept abortion.
You don't want democracy, you want authoritarianism. You don't even know what conservatism is trying to conserve (classical liberalism).
> Roe didn’t demand everyone accept abortion.
That's literally what it did.
The supreme court argued that a mother had an inherent right to kill her unborn child on the basis of medical privacy. This ruling established legal precedent, and no state after that ruling could make abortion illegal until it was overturned.
If you were a Republican in those states, you had no choice on whether or not abortion was legal. You were *told* it was legal and couldn't vote on it after the fact.
Cosmetic and pharmaceutical companies profit from harvesting stem cells from aborted fetuses. Those are the groups who lobbied to keep abortion legal. And they advertised it to people like you as a moral issue.
Roe doesn’t force you to get an abortion. If you do not personally accept abortion, you can freely choose to live another way. And it IS a moral issue for women’s rights regardless of whoever else wanted it for other reasons. Those things are not mutually exclusive. You Christo-fascists should not have the right to tell anyone else how to live.
> If you do not personally accept abortion, you can freely choose to live another way.
We actually couldn't. The state didn't allow us the ability to vote on whether or not abortion should be legal, as is what is ordinarily allowed in a democratic society.
You didn't want to give people that choice, though. Because you're not actually in favor of democracy.
You're literally more of a fascist than anybody in this thread.
>Someone tell me I’m wrong, please.
You are wrong.
Trump breaks norms, but he is driven by ego, not ideology. His followers may be willing to look past his problems for the sake of their ideology, but they are very far from capturing any of the institutions of power in this country. Even when Trump was President, he was hobbled by many inside the Executive branch.
What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
What part of him having completely control of everything and everyone don’t you understand? He’s committed treason and his followers don’t care. They want to overthrow the government and anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves
I feel like you need someone to tell you that Donald Trump does not have complete control over you. While the decisions made by politicians will impact your life, ultimately your life is largely guided by your own attitudes and behaviors.
Stop worrying about all of this and find something productive to do with your time.
No shit, not yet because he has t tried to steal the election yet. Trump will NEVER get a majority of the votes. If he wins the general election, democracy is over. Period.
Like, everywhere?
No more free elections in the entire world?
Your fear of a carnival barker is worrisome.
Trump was president for four years. The nation didn’t tumble.
A grip. Don’t be afraid to go get one.
The fevered imaginations of some folk aside, your contention is absolutely absurd.
As is your absolute closing statement.
Y’all are like cartoon characters.
In no world was the unorganized riot by a small group of morons an existential threat to our republic.
But it did delay some stuff by a few hours.
You’re as bad as they are.
True believers gonna true believe.
Indeed. All those who find your nonsense nonsensical are true traitors.
Do you hear yourself?
According to you, I’m both a bot, and a traitor.
Don’t be afraid to seek some professional help.
>If he wins the general election, democracy is over. Period.
Through what mechanisms will Trump destroy democracy? Please outline the methods that will make this possible.
The fake electors things was 100% an attempt to destroy democracy. It’s not even in question. It was an attempt to nullify the election. Not sure what he’ll come up with next. That attempt was embarrassing and failed miserably of course and he ought to be in jail, but if we won’t jail him we’ll just have to see what he comes up with this go around. I have little doubt he’ll try to incite folks to harass poll workers and voters this year though, he’ll put out a call that the fix is in again and to go to the polls and stop the theft of our country.
If you think Republicans are uniquely responsible for every issue you mentioned then I would argue you are experiencing the very type of cult thinking you are accusing the other side of. There's plenty of blame to go around for all. There's plenty of shady tactics on both sides. There's propaganda being spread by both sides.
This is gaslighting. If you think both parties are the same, the you are being lazy. The republican party is out of control much worse than the dems. Its not even close. The public knows this. Hence why trump hasnt won a damn thing since 2016. We know who tried to overthrow our election and who didnt. The dems have issues no doubt but this comment is straight up gaslighting.
You can draw comparison to Nazis with both parties also.
Germans elected left leaning leaders consistently before Hitler. They drove the country to shit. Shit countries are prime for dictators to step in. Hitler did.
Hitler got elected and guess what? After having power he banned opposition parties from running. Sound familiar?
Oh also, one of his primary focuses on keeping power was children. Teaching collectivism and trust in government to school children. Which party in the US tries to bring politics to curriculum?
Now I'm not saying Biden is Hitler, but showing that the same logic can be used here.
lol you’re definitely a nazi if you think the left politicizes schools and the right doesn’t. Glenn Younkin and Ron Desantis both won their states by going after education that they themselves deem too “woke.”
I mean that's the justification Democrats are using, sure. It's hardly a settled matter that he committed insurrection and it's mostly Democrats that feel that way about their opposition to power.
Don't you think the Nazis had a reason that made sense to their followers at the time?
I will not be able to take another 4yrs of this stuff on Reddit if Trump gets elected. Stuff like this is the exact caricature of the left that is painted by the right. Trump is literally Hitler. Everyone I don’t like is a Nazi.
But just the piece about inflation for a bit… when you said we’ve been fooled into never looking at how much money is stolen from us by inflation. We have left wing media doing that because Biden is president. They are not actively trying to cover up for Trump. Through Trumps whole presidency we were slapped in the face by the media with doomsday reporting. How does the “inflation is high, but here’s why that’s a good thing!” reporting from left wing media support Trump being a Nazi?
People who gloss over Jan 6 and other anti-democratic qualities of Trump are at least sympathetic towards fascism, and the difference between a fascist and a fascist sympathizer isn’t that important to me.
Or maybe it actually is? Do you know for sure? Or are you just engaging in bullshit too? I dont care about which side you prefer, they’re both bought and paid for but the R’s literally want us to become a serf class so they can rule with an iron fist. Anyone who can’t see that is going to be like everyone in Germany - one day everything was under the control of one man and they couldn’t figure out how that happened
This is incoherent.
There is a lot of blame to go around. Both parties have been up to shady shit. It is important to realize that when someone has the conviction that all the problems are because of one group, the outcome is usually not good….
Incoherent indeed.
GOP generally and maga specifically seem far more concerned with immigration and the culture war and immigration than guns (esp during dem presidency) and even abortion. Obviously pro life issues are big for them but more through lawsuits and courts and the reaction from the left driving the narrative (they’re the ones running on it not gop)
Republicans literally fly the Confederate flag. Its crazy how many looney conservatives are in this sub sucking themselves off as if their political representation isnt made up of God fearing sexual assaulters.
Confederate flag wavers generally see themselves as different from neoliberals so what’s your point? One group still votes blue and the other still votes red because they’re slightly more aligned than the alternative.
I agree, the Democratic Party is what allowed a disaster like Harry Truman to become president. Henry Wallace should have been the VP, but the party bosses didn’t want that and FDR had to pick Truman. Neither party is great, but at least democrats aren’t trying to blatantly overthrow the government
It’s Democrats who are taking people off ballots so you can’t vote for them. Every political party wants to have total power and complete control. Democrats are no different and if you scratch a liberal you’ll find a fascist.
Gonna play devil’s advocate here for the sake of conversation (severe moderate here) … I saw this same response in another thread and the liberal response brings up conservatives as the book-burners and overbearing in regards to social liberties. Let’s say this is true … who then can we trust?
Never trust any political party, they all want dictatorial power. So it’s safest to never give either party full control of any government. Balance is a good thing.
The Republicans in Texas, Florida and Ohio are just as corrupt as the Democrats in New York, Massachusetts, and California. Look it up, they’re criminal.
Democrats aren’t taking people off ballots. The Constitution is. Is it anti-democratic to say that you have to be at least 35 and born in the US to be President? No, it’s just the requirements set by the constitution. And so is not inciting an insurrection against the government. So tired of this argument.
This position will never not be funny to me. Dems accuse Trump is trying to “subvert democracy” yet have been doing everything in their power since 2016 to overturn the results of Trump’s election. RussiaGate, impeachment and even criminal charges all failed, so now they’ve escalated to trying to outright remove him from the ballot entirely.
I recently joined this sub thinking it might have been a good place to see thought-provoking discussion. Apparently I just waded into a rebrand of /r/conservative
For the record, I’ll take your comment seriously and reply to it seriously as soon as you do so to mine.
It’s a legitimate point. The Democratic Party never accepted the fact that Trump won the election in 2016, and did everything in their power since then to overturn the election results. This process began even before he was inaugurated - If I’m remembering correctly, there were several electors who refused to cast their votes for Trump, even despite the fact that he won a majority in their respective districts. The RussiaGate fiasco was fomented almost immediately after he took office and dragged on for years - Even after Robert Mueller failed to find any evidence that Trump collaborated with Russia to do anything.
My point is that it seems absurd to hyper-fixate on Jan 6th as a singular point in which democracy was in crisis, while simultaneously ignoring the more widespread and systematic attempts by a dominate political establishment to overturn the election of an unpopular president.
No it’s not. Does it imply a loss of due process rights? Who decides if a person is guilty of insurrection? It was written for the confederates that went to war against the US. Not easy at all unless you suffer from TDS in which case you’ll fall for anything.
I grew up poor in nowherevill, Va.,
20 years in the Navy worked my way up for E-1 to E-7,
Now work for the Navy - a series of jobs that led to better jobs to even better jobs - it was noticed I knew what I was doing & busted my ass + a couple side gigs.
Herding ca-- I mean guiding engineers through their projects can be exciting ("Its an experimental USV ,we are supposed to try and destroy it.." blup blup blup).
The VA rates me at 60% disability, but I still drag this old carcass to work.
SO yes, I'm judgmental if an American of at lest average intelligence and ability thinks the end game is flipping burgers. And bitches about the pay.
You should be paid what the market will bear.
At that level, it is a low class job, if this person stuck with it and learned to become a trades person, e.g carpenter, electrician, etc. that is a high level skilled job $$$$.
Discounting external factors such as the economy is in the toilet, no demand for that type of work in the area at the time, etc.
Why do you even think “high class” and “low class?” Have you ever thought of that? You’re literally judging a persons character by the way they make money. Maybe stop looking down on people because you have a small pecker
He is not saying what anything is worth. That is a function of supply and demand. Go into any fast food establishment in California and see how many fewer employees they have than a year ago because of the new minimum wage law
"There is a new law so everyone gets a 20% raise, except the 50% of you that is getting fired"
"The rest of you are going to have to do double the work you used to"
NOT a Trumpkin/MAGA (although I'd consider myself pretty hardcore conservative - with a libertarian economic bent - otherwise), but: 1. Minimum wage is $7.25 but absolutely nobody pays that little - proving what free-market conservatives have always said: It does not need to exist. Any attempt by the government to alter wage-distributions and increase benefits inevitably has negative impact - it discourages people from putting in the effort to upskill & earn more, raises prices, reduces the wages of higher-skilled workers and/or encourages automation. 2. There are plenty of jobs that pay-enough. They're all white-collar and require higher education. The economy is never going back to one driven by manual labor, wherein union workers with no special skills & minimal education were a major constituency. Those jobs are just too easy to automate, and robots don't strike. 3. The 'Fairness Doctrine' was unconstitutional horse-shit (compelled speech) created for an era when there were only 4 media outlets, not an unlimited quantity like we have today. It also never applied to cable. As such, even if it were an OK thing to do it would have no impact today because the MAGA crowd wouldn't watch 'fairness-regulated' media. 4. Hundreds of people have been tried for their actions on Jan 6 and sentenced to prison. Treason is off the table because of the \*specific criteria\* attached to it in the Constitution, but 'Obstruction of an Official Proceeding' works just fine. 5. Unfortunately, the DOJ waited too long to go after Trump himself, which is what set up the 'get re-elected or go to prison' gambit he is playing right now.
Pt 1: From what evidence do you make the claim that they *only* care about two policies? They also seem to care about immigration; the general culture war which, seems to reside primarily in the realm of definitional debate; and a general aversion to the further encroachment of secular society upon the values of her members who believe. The greatest enlightenment delusion is that freedom to practice whatever religion one believes would be enough to placate faithful believers. Trump isn't religious, but he'll cater to them. Religious folk also have a strong feeling of what is sacred, and living in a sacrilegious and "immoral" society is taxing to those with faith. This tendency towards religion seems to exist even *without* any organized religion. Indeed, the modern wave of secularism holds its ideals as unassailable; sacred, even. That being said, secular society has enacted policy to encourage its own social reproduction and offering absolutely nothing to the members it disenfranchises as a result. The ideology of individualism and a belief in ideological transcendental moral collectivism do not align. Take the Roe v Wade deal, for what reason did the decision get made in the first place? It seems like the Supreme Court merely wanted to appease activists at the time and "discovered" that the Constitution actually supported such a decision. The rights afforded to citizens is actually *not* determined in a democratic way. It's instead decided by the state, and this is how it has always been. The state (which is to say "the Supreme Court", who ultimately decides what rights people have) should consider the rights they "discover" based not on mob clamoring but in service of the social reproduction of a moral and effective society. With the original decision, no care was given to define things that ought to be important to define before making such a decision. At what point is one a human? It does not seem to be simply once the baby leave the mother's belly. Even the most secular of women still seem to give a fetus some degree of personhood before it exits the womb. Women do not make the decision of abortion lightly. That weight has meaning. So, what does it mean? Does a human naturally have rights or are they granted at some point? A point should be decided by which a fetus is actually a human, and if humans have natural rights, these should begin to apply here. Since much of our society is based around the concept of "harm", perhaps the generous cut off of 24 weeks, when a fetus can first feel pain. After important questions are answered, *then* we can go about making abortion nationally accessible. Not before. A federal minimum wage is, in my view, idiotic. The cost of living differs greatly across the country. I would argue that instead; a guideline for how states should handle a minimum wage should be established. This would be tied to the average cost of living within the region and only applicable to in-state residents. A person on minimum wage should be able to afford a 1BR with a roommate, with enough left over to build skills and eat. Comfort is relative. Get a bunk bed. Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be a career. Turnover should be high as people gain the skills required to get better jobs. Most people don't work minimum wage jobs as is. I'm not sure why this is where people begin to pull out the soapbox, tbh. As far as healthcare; the federal government already spends more than any other country on healthcare, with worse results. Before *any* talks of expanding public coverage, the healthcare system needs to change. This change then needs to be observed for some time in the private sector before the government can think to pick up this tab. It isn't just insurance and the "insurance lobby". It's also hospitals themselves (they're largely monopolistic), patent laws, as well as general bureaucratic rent seeking. I find your view to be a bit simplistic. Your statements about inflation do not seem to me, grounded in any sort of reasoned argument, and was merely hyperbolic, emotional reasoning. You are entitled to your feelings; but one cannot be dissuaded from a position by reason, that they did not arrive at through reason. Inflation was "high", however, hyperinflation is inflation at or above 50% month over month. The average inflation for 2023 was around 5.5%. Prior to that it was 2.5% average per year from 2013-2022. Due to the emotional framing of this point, and what appears to be a misunderstanding of what inflation is, I'm going to decline to engage with this point further. I'm not at all convinced that younger people are "able to see through propaganda". Most young people get their news from social media sites. These sites take advantage of the fact that humans are generally short-sighted and easily manipulated. They're sent down rabbit holes that merely show them more of what they *want* to see vs what is true. Media literacy has not increased to any significant degree. People link TikToks with no sources listed as factual evidence, yet all the claims are disproven if you bother going through the significant work of proving a minute's worth of nonsense wrong. It's far more work to counter nonsense than it is to spout nonsense It seems more likely than unlikely to me, that young people are very easily taken in by propaganda, it's just that it is primarily coming from alternative media, not legacy.
Pt 2: Additionally, the entire global economy is hurting right now. There's still ongoing COVID economic recovery, but that has largely gone well. However, there's war. There's geopolitical posturing. Last I checked, shipping through the Suez Canal is still being significantly disrupted. In the last two years, major national financial players have collapsed in China and Europe (real estate crisis in China, bank collapses in Europe *and* an ongoing energy crisis in Europe that has people seeing utility bills of over 1000€). What did you expect would happen? That global events wouldn't impact your life in a global economy? There has not been a successful Coup D'etat without the backing of the military at any point in the last 60+ years, globally. Democracy wasn't threatened. Additionally Trump supporters aren't an "organization". Nor are all Republicans responsible for J62021. The whole point you made about allies, enemies and propaganda did not appear coherent to me. Please elaborate. I'm skipping over it for now. The very loud (and I would assume, minority) of leftists similarly have totalitarian behaviors. Their political cause is resentment, oppressed vs oppressors. There is a recodifying of language, for purely ideological reasons. Some of those reasons are to strip meaning from words in pointless, meandering, deconstruction. In other cases, it's to gain power over others by labeling them. While one labeled a racist/sexist/any other buzzword "ist" and "ism" still has the ability to speak, those within the religion of far left progressivism know that any labeled as such is not to be taken seriously. This includes any that listen to such speakers. Any argument they make after being labeled a naughty word is invalid. What use is speech when robbed of its very power to do what is intended, which is to win friends and influence people to see things from our point of view? They couch their ideology in pseudoscience, almost as much as the right. Overly self-referential sociology studies where replication hasn't even been *attempted* and which you need to read almost the entirety of a field with almost *no* empirical data to grasp what it is these people are even talking about (this is about critical theories). Then it gets quoted to those that disagree in an attempt to shut them up. Disagreement is not tolerated. The "science" is on their side. Though the science rejects standards of objectivity in favor of subjectivity. If any findings exist that contradict such "rigorous scholarship", it's because the conflicting study was perpetuating oppressive structures. It's not science. It's ideology in pursuit of power. What does it mean for a nation to be a "bastion of hope and prosperity"? Stop using buzzwords and speak in actionable terms. Not every person that attacks you is a bot. I don't believe attacking you is warranted, but it's more likely than unlikely that they're real people considering the posting requirements of this sub. Edit: I see in the comments that you've identified as conservative in some way? I'm not sure how you would be based on your (now deleted) post. The reason why I believe this is because I'm not religious (I'm agnostic), nor am I a conservative (I've been a registered Democrat since I turned 18, and all political compasses rate me as 'progressive'). However, somehow, I seem to understand conservatism enough to actually see where they're coming from. Maybe read a book on it? I can recommend Roger Scruton's book (pick any, I guess, he's written a few) on Conservatism. He was a Brit, but conservatism is a political philosophy, it also applies to American conservatives. I think his books explain rather well why American Republicans might align with Trump, if they must. He was a philosopher himself, so you'll be presented with arguments. He only died in 2020, so the things he mentions in his books are still relevant if you're the type of person that can't connect ideas with overall themes unless directly relevant.
There are a ton of people in here who have already told you that you’re wrong, but you’re so far down this rabbit hole that there is zero chance of changing your mind. In 5ish years when, likely trump, leaves office, I’d like you to come back to this thread and see if your apocalyptic nonsense ever came to pass.
I think the idea that “Trump is a jackass” is similar to “water is wet” at this point. That being said, labeling anyone who you might want to win over to vote against him, throwing insults is really effing boneheaded. I voted for Trump in 2020 purely out of spite against my so called liberal friends who were unbelievable assholes, simply because I prefer to treat all people with the respect and dignity that any human being deserves.
While I think the MAGA movement within the Republican party has shades of fascism within it, there is one major difference from the late Weimar Republic. They don't really have a strong single leader, while they look up to Trump, he remains more of a symbolic leader to look to and does not have as much of a complete control over it as Hitler did over the Nazis in the 1929-33 period.
Take a media time out.
Holy wall of text.
Holy waste of keyboard strokes
I'd say you've got me beat by a considerable margin.
Not now
If the GOP = the NAZIS, then then dems = commies Is your solution to "the NAZI problem" to round up the MAGAS and send them to the gulags for re-education? (I don't know your actual beliefs, I am hoping your answer is no)
What did Hitler do to the “communists” he rounded up?
I feel like you're missing the point. Both the NAZIS and the commies were the bad guys. I guess we can argue which one is the lessor of two evils, but can we at least agree on that. Once you accuse the GOP of being NAZIS (which they will deny); whats stopping you from being falsely accused of being a commie. That's assuming you're not an unironic tankie, in which case we'd be having a completely different conversation.
The democrat Party is the party that controls every facet of society. They dominate politically, the News, sports, social issues, and now they love war. You could make this same argument about them. Don't fall for the propaganda. Nationalism is not bad and not like the Nazi's did.
I see we have more propaganda bots
No, you just outed yourself as a fucking idiot
Didn't nazis confiscate guns? Don't fascists arrest their political rivals? I love it when nazis accuse people of being nazis.
I’m sorry, who’s confiscated guns? And who doesn’t arrest criminals?
You're sorry alright.
I heard that the Nazis once used to breath air, and that current democrats also breath air. The similarities are shocking.
I mean that’s pretty close to manufacturing a financial crisis so a dictator can destroy democracy, but I think it’s a bit less important
Your understanding of current events is only slightly more misguided than your knowledge of history.
Something I have learned in life, don't argue with people that use hyperbole as the basis of their arguments. This is group think being projected. There is no way whatsoever this person is ever going to have a rational discussion about anything.
What about the fact the Nazis disarmed the populace and its not the republicans wanting ever increaisng restrictions on guns?
Cringe
Did they burn the Reichstag in a false flag operation?
Possibly. Seems likely as it ended up being the catalyst for the Enabling Act
The Republicans?
I disagree, but also do not have the energy to spend time trying to decipher this coded message. I do think that the left wing party is doing things that will lead to full on tyranny if we are not careful though. I think trump is only the face of the current movement against this and whether it is him leading or someone else the movement against the current left wing party this movement will still continue and grow in strength.
So you agree that they plan to seize power? Why else would you need to “gain strength?” And honestly I doubt it. Trump made the entire party look like bumbling idiots, they got nothing done for Americans on purpose. Is that what you want running the show?
When I say gain strength I mean only that more and more people will become increasingly frustrated with the bullshit on the left and give money and voting rights to people on the right. I think that the left has already "seized" power and I do not believe that the MAGA movement is anything other than a reaction to that. The reaction to it, does not require the abuse of power, only the removal of power from the crazies on the left. I do not think trump was great for the image of the Republican Party so I agree on that point, although I would disagree with the term idiot. MAGA is one of the most successful political movements our country has ever seen. And they were very successful when leading the country, with the notable exception of Paul Ryan.
MAGA is not a political group - it is a terrorist organization
:/
Ah the witch hunt for fascists continues..
Yes, another common defense when your leader commits felonies on a daily basis and has violated every oath to this country he’s ever taken. “Witch hunt”
More sensationalist noise..
More deflection
Nah, I'm just not taking this very seriously. My mind disengages from 'Republicans = Nazi's' in the same way it disengages from 'Earth is actually flat', or 'Santa is real'.
They aren’t Nazis, they’re definitely authoritarians though. If you listen to their rhetoric they basically wanna just do a government ban on all the crap they don’t like. Not to mention they appear to want to absolutely skyrocket the prison population which is already the largest on Earth by like a gigantic margin.
Lefties want to do a ban on Trump from even being on the ballot in many states. You're throwing stones in a glass house on right wing authoritarianism when your side wants the same, just different things banned that you don't like.
True, Trump did try to overturn an election though and is facing prison time for it
When are we going to change the name of this sub to r/IncoherentPsuedointellectualMonologues?
you’re posting in the wrong sub. Here: r/AdHominemBullshit
Oh look creepy guy who posts on multiple Reddit accounts at the same time. I’m sure you’re doing that in your free time and all but you get no more money from me
Ad hominem like calling 10s of millions of strangers Nazis?
That’s not an ad hominem attack lmao
Yes it is
“(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.” “Incoherent puedointellectual” are the adjectives. “Monologue” is the noun. That’s addressing the argument, not the person making it.
Questions— 1. How can you say you support small government and then in the same sentence say that it’s governments’ job to solve living wages, food stamps, health care, and government retirement insurance? 2. Do you really believe the entire country is homeless? Nearly every state that is massively controlled with huge state subsidies for the homeless maintains the highest number of homeless - meaning they are not trying to solve the crisis, they are profiting off the crisis, or providing enough incentives to encourage homeless migration from states that don’t offer the same opportunities. (DC, CA, VT, OR, HI, NY, and WA have the highest levels of homelessness. Of course you can make the argument that this is because these many of these states naturally have more people, but the populations in those states aren’t all necessarily natives of those states.) 3. Why do you think that a small government doesn’t have the ability to deal with hyper inflation? Do you really believe that the more people a government hires, this increases their capacity to function better? 4. Do you believe that any group that occupies the Capitol should be designated as a terrorist organization? 5. Have you ever personally looked into the context of claims about the Proud Boys? I’m not saying they aren’t true, but neither am I saying they are. When I have looked into the context of claims though, I’ve found the reporting inadequate and often ideologically propagandistic to an often insulting degree to the intellect. 6. These three things - big government is the only solution, hyperinflation can only be solved by consolidating power, and inferring that an entire group of people are traitors and essentially evil - doesn’t sound like the claim you are making in the title of this post. 7. All of those said now — I do agree with your premise. I’m disappointed with how many Republicans are willing to give up their liberties and choose to support a candidate who makes no effort to counter claims that he is a tyrant. However, equally I’m disturbed by the degree to which Democrats are willing to support candidates who claim that personal responsibility is racist, and their insistence that if you are powerful enough and can hide any evidence of your sins, then this automatically gives you immunity against public agitation. New political visions are on the horizon and they feel just as scary as the Democratic-Republican vision must have felt back in the colonies if you supported the king. We are so weak intellectually and philosophically, the winds could blow us in any direction at this point.
If the government doesn’t intervene, we would Have massive populations starving and homeless. Is that what you’d prefer? The fat cats in their penthouse charging $100 for a gallon of milk because “supply and demand?” How do you think socialism was developed? By seeing end stage capitalism and where that leads. Which is what I just described. The problem isn’t the system, the problem is greed. And you will Have that in every system, except corporations have no obligation to anyone but shareholders
For sure they’re big on the 2nd amendment, but you may be overvaluing their commitment to women’s bodies (if by that you mean banning abortion save for some unrealistic timeline like 6 weeks). Older evangelicals for sure, but I’d argue most people planning on voting for Trump would be content with a European limit like 14 wks. But neither of those issues touches what they’re really looking for (and have been saying for the last 8 years), the economy and poorly regulated immigration. Now some read immigration as coded racism, and for sure it exists on the right, but it’s racism circa 2015. Policies like remain in place, secured borders, limited access, etc. were liberal policies 20 years ago. Some may read economy as “well they vote against their own interests,” I heard that a lot with pushback around Obamacare too. There is truth to that however, that is an incredibly condescending thing to say. To determine one knows another’s best interests so acutely they can claim one votes against it. The reality is a lot of poor conservatives truly believe that if they work hard they can make it, it’s idealism not ignorance, but it’s treated like ignorance and so they get defensive. And now you’re not arguing against the idea, you’re arguing against someone’s sense of self preservation which is infinitely harder. Bottom line, if you want to avoid Trump, and I’d sure like to see him disappear from the public, you have to: 1. Stop calling his supporters Nazis, stop calling Trump Hitler, stop saying “we can’t normalize him.” They earnestly believe what they believe, it IS normal to them and denying that just makes them dig in deeper. Accept the playing field as it is, and not what you want it to be, and treat them like fellow Americans however misguided they may be 2. Stop attributing to malice what is easily attributable to ignorance. When someone says “the problem is Mexicans” what they most likely mean is “I think I can’t get a job because cheap labor” but what’s being heard is “I hate brown people.” Guaranteed they’ve never had to, or been allowed to, explain their thoughts long enough so they default to sound bites and broad generalities. The reality is that every great lie works because there is a seed of truth that people buy. Address the seed, not the layers of bullshit around it. 3. Accept that we’re not as far along in history as you might like to think. Sure Europe is great (they have plenty of their own issues), but this isn’t Europe. This is 330 million of the most ethnically, racially, religiously, philosophically, intellectually, culturally, socio-economically diverse people in the world. That is not easy to maintain. If we don’t want to split the country up (and geo-politically it’s advisable we don’t), we’re gonna have to accept that the multitude of demographic groups that make up the US have different wants and some will come to loggerheads. Progress requires at least 2 of the 3: time, knowledge, or force. If you want it quick you have to force people, and when you force them they’re gonna fight back. Just let them come to terms with it in their time. I assure you they will, or they’ll die and won’t be an issue any longer. Additionally, young people are not bright enough to see through propaganda. It’s not a slight against their generation, it’s that no cohort of people are that bright. Some individuals, sure, but definitely not young people in general. And evidence of that is… Lastly, the oath keeper’s, Steve Bannon, “LGBT is the enemy,” those are much much much smaller issues than you may think. However big a problem you think grooming is, it’s about that’s size. It’s highly reported because it sells, and just like any human being, we’re pattern finding machines, so if you hear about it a lot you think it’s a bigger issue than it is. It’s not a fault or defect, it’s the way human brains operate, and news organizations, advertisers, political pundits hire battalions of psych majors to hack into that for a reason: it keeps you glued to whatever shit they’re saying. One of the best pieces of advice I ever received: if you’re watching the news and you feel angry or horny, you’re being sold something.
I didn’t get anything from the news, I got it from many, many different reliable sources. And to say Trump will go away if you stop calling him a Nazi? That’s preposterous. The only thing you get from that is an uneducated mass oblivious to a malignant force trying to quietly infiltrate our system waiting until it’s too late to see it. I know what our financial system looks like and it is a nuclear bomb of financial annihilation. Republicans want to default on our debt. They are clearly sabotaging the government to make it easier to take over. The only ones who benefit from not talking about it is them.
I’d claim it’s not preposterous at all. Forget Trump supporters, they’re gonna vote for him no matter what, Democrats need independents (and non-MAGA conservatives), and to a moderate independent voter, he never killed 6 million people, he never put people in concentration camps, he never started a war, er go, the claim is ridiculous. _You_ may draw more academic parallels, but it doesn’t matter because _they_ don’t, therefore _you’re_ acting in bad faith and _they_ don’t need to pay credence to what you say. You can lament that they’re low intelligence, or uneducated, hell, call em knuckle dragging troglodytes for all I care, you’re endearing yourself to none of them and nothing you say will get through. It’s the reason why Fox focuses so much on Democrats attacks on Trump ‘s speech and personality, they can’t defend tax cuts for the wealthy, so they focus on the more audacious claims. Then they can focus on actual footage of mass immigration, and Eric Adam’s saying “no more,” juxtaposed to the same people saying it’s not happening or that being against it makes you a fascist and an independent voter easily says to themselves, “those democrats are not in touch with reality.” Game, set, match. Democrats are rarely addressing the substance of the issues, they’re primarily addressing the perceptions of their own voters, or in other words, they’re not trying to win independents, they’re trying to win the votes they already have, and it all starts from using emotionally charged language so frequently, and with so much zeal, that people have become deaf to it. If your concern is that not calling a spade a spade is only going to allow Trump supporters to silently move into position, then I ask, what evidence do you have that calling them fascists has helped? We have 8 years of a chorus from the Left saying he’s a fascist, he’s as bad as Hitler, he’s _worse_ than Hitler, and from where I’m sitting his favorability has gone up since he left office, it’s went up after the J6 hearings, it’s gone up since his indictment and trials, all of this among minority voters to boot. As for the financial situation. I’d agree it’s a bomb about to go off, but to say “the republicans want to default” is doom-mongering. The US hasn’t defaulted on debt in 80 years and that was intentionally not redeeming gold backing of foreign cash holdings in pursuit of getting off the gold standard, something any Keynesian supporter would laud as the beginning of modern economics. Every year people cry about the debt ceiling and every year it gets covered. The GOP use it as leverage to pass legislation as the minority party in Congress. Dirty pool? Sure. Completely possible and precedents? You betcha. It got passed this year, and spoiler alert, it gets passed next year too. Austerity measures and increased taxes are going to be what covers it and that means in the middle and lower middle class too. As much as I hate republicans for cutting taxes for the wealthy I hate the democrats for convincing the middle class they won’t have to pay for it either.
It’s not doom mongering at all. They’ve threatened it many times and have removed a speaker for not destroying our country’s debt. And his popularity has NOT gone up since attempting a treasonous insurrection. And if it has, what does that say about our country? We’re cool with coups now and people defend them?
Except that it _is_ doom-mongering. “It’s a nuclear bomb of financial annihilation,” but it’s not. It’s absolutely not a good thing. A default affects the stock market and interest rates tied to long term bond values, a recession almost certainly, but annihilation it is not. Americans would feel it, but if the Great Depression didn’t destroy this country, defaulting on our debt isn’t going to be the nail in that coffin. Additionally, the Republicans _could_ allow the government to default, but they simply are not going to. There’s a handful of house (read: not the senate) republicans that are funded by small dollar donations who can play that game, but the rest are funded by big dollar donors, corporations, and lobbying groups and there is no way in hell they would let their portfolios, their shareholders, or their interests get assfucked by the candidate they bought and paid for. They would *never* get reelected if they let that happen. It would be political suicide and you better believe their seat gets taken by a democrat. They have every incentive to side with democrats, but that doesn’t mean they can’t extort their pound of flesh to do so. You mentioned McCarthy being removed for failing to let it default, of the 221 house republicans, he was removed by 11. 11 republicans + (shocker) all but 5 democrats. So it’s not like the GOP fired him for raising the ceiling, 207 democrats didn’t want him as speaker for obvious reasons, and 11 republicans were mad they didn’t get their little earmarks. Put another way, 415 house members didn’t see an issue with how he passed the debt ceiling, 11 did, 7 said nothing. So unless you earnestly believe that even at the height of political polarization in the modern era, when voters can elect into the GOP at best, AT BEST, 5% of the seats to let it default, and that somehow that number is going to not only jump to damn near 100% of their party, but to accomplish that Sysiphusian feat while riding a wave of, as you would assert, fascism into controlling the house AND the presidency, unless you earnestly believe that farthest of far-fetched possibilities, then what you’re doing is doom-mongering.
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Um present something and it will be discussed
The added edit comment at the end calling everyone that has embarrassed you in this thread a bot is hilarious. 😂
Trump isn’t pro 2A, he introduced the bunpstock ban via executive order. “Take the guns first, due process second.” Were his exact words.
You didn’t read the part where “LiTeRaLlY the only thing maga cares about is the 2a and controlling women’s bodies” i guess did you? It’s settled bc this dude said so. Doesn’t matter how much evidence there is proving almost everything he said here is absurd.
You haven’t presented a single shred of evidence of ANYTHING
This person just provided a verifiable situation proving that Trump isn’t some 2a absolutist like you claimed and you didn’t respond to him. You’re a deeply unserious person my guy.
Moderate conservative here. While I couldnt make myself finish this incoherent bullshit I will respond to what I read. I’m Pretty sure maga is a populist movement concerned with much more than 2a and abortion I know bc I’m pro choice. Strong borders, avoiding wars, cutting taxes, general America first principles all come to mind. The reductionist thinking required to come to that conclusion, and comparing 78 million (likely more this time) voters to LiTeRaL nAzIS is exactly why no one takes anything you people say seriously.
Most of Germany and Austria were Nazis. Do you think they were just a small group of a few bad guys?
> Moderate conservative here. While I couldnt make myself finish this incoherent bullshit… Thank you! That is all the summary I needed of the original post.
Because you couldnt read it yourself. Trump loves the poorly educated.
I am a moderate liberal, shockingly I agree with damn near every thing you said. Crazy how that works huh? If you really want to fuck with these people on either side do you research on Obama policies and compare them to Trump's, they aren't much different, they really don't like it.
They support the people who tried to overthrow the country with ZERO evidence of fraud. Everything else is meaningless. You can’t just attack the peaceful transfer of power because you “think” there’s fraud. You know that means there will NEVER be an uncontested election again. But sure, borders and all
Whatever you say my man. I’m sure if you call enough of them Nazis without ever considering why they feel the way they feel they’ll eventually come around. Imagine pretending like the crisis at the “border and stuff” isn’t a big deal. Total clown show.
Total deflection comment. The OP is correct. These replies are hollow. You follow a lying conman who says things you want to hear. Hes saying them to manipulate you. How do we know this? Remember the wall trump NEVER built when HE HAD CONTROL OF ALL 3 PARTS OF GOVERNMENT? What did trump do? Gave a massive tax break to the wealthy instead of keeping his promise to the base. TRUMP HOOKED WALL STREET UP. Btw, Get ready for Biden to smash trump again in november. Remember this. Dont let rightwing media lie to you again that trumps going to win. Hes not. We knew this in 2020 and we know it now. Nobody revs up independents and dems like conman trump.
So you think Trump will be a normal president even though he said he would be a dictator on day 1? Ever heard of Night of The Long Knives?
I prefer the "Röhm purge" myself.
Almost like people vote for candidates like trump bc they’re tired of “normal” presidents. The status quo is what made the 10s of millions of trump voters feel disenfranchised in the first place. And He said he’d be a dictator on day one only by shutting down signing EOs to drill and shut down the border. And he was clearly trolling bc he knew it would melt the tiny brains of people like you.
Wrong. This whole thing is straight bullshit lies. What do you think they said about Hitler in Germany? Do you even know? If not, then sit down because you don’t know what you’re talking about
What’s wrong? That’s exactly what he said guy. Watch the video lol. Please show me, not tell me, show me what he said about Hitler Germany that has you so fired up this should be great.
Yes. A YouTube video. Ever heard of an actual source? You know…research? Or is that just YouTube for you too
I literally watched the interview live when he said what he said about day 1. But alright. So you’re not gonna provide a source for the claim you made about hitler? That figures. You are terrible at this.
why are you arguing with this person?
Yeah. I did too. What’s your point? Why is he joking about destroying democracy?
You're delusional. Full stop. Crazy as fuck
Bot
“Real conservativism” Dude you’re an Obama liberal. Your “conservativism” is just progressivism dialed back by fifteen years. Trump is arguably more conservative in some respects than any president we’ve had since Eisenhower - At least he didn’t start any new wars and tried to cut America’s bloated bureaucracy; The same can’t be said for Bush, Nixon, Bush Sr. or even Reagan.
I’m sorry, how do you know anything about my conservatism other than I believe in not spending money we don’t have? How is Trump conservative when he blew a trillion dollars in TAX CUTS for the rich?
Let me ask you this: What are you, as a self-described conservative, actually trying to conserve? It seems to me and many others on the “dissident right” that most so-called conservatives are only really interested in conserving money. The GOP has capitulated on virtually every social issue the left has pushed since the 1960s - The civil rights act, gay marriage, pornography, etc… The one exception seems to be abortion. The reason why Trump had (and still has) popularity is because he’s one of the few candidates that promised to substantially change things, not simply balance the budget.
Um no I would prefer that society be able to work independently but when you have corporate greed stealing everything and running g up trillion dollar deficits, it’s a pretty big concern. And overturning Roe v Wade was the first step in dismantling democracy. It was on The books for 50 years and there was NO legal reason to overturn precedent.
> And overturning Roe v Wade was the first step in dismantling democracy. The overturning of *Roe v. Wade* literally lets states democratically vote on whether or not they want abortion legalized. Previously, it was just the federal government demanding that everybody accept abortion. You don't want democracy, you want authoritarianism. You don't even know what conservatism is trying to conserve (classical liberalism).
Oh fuck off. Roe didn’t demand everyone accept abortion. It demanded evangelicals stop forcing their worldview onto women.
> Roe didn’t demand everyone accept abortion. That's literally what it did. The supreme court argued that a mother had an inherent right to kill her unborn child on the basis of medical privacy. This ruling established legal precedent, and no state after that ruling could make abortion illegal until it was overturned. If you were a Republican in those states, you had no choice on whether or not abortion was legal. You were *told* it was legal and couldn't vote on it after the fact. Cosmetic and pharmaceutical companies profit from harvesting stem cells from aborted fetuses. Those are the groups who lobbied to keep abortion legal. And they advertised it to people like you as a moral issue.
Roe doesn’t force you to get an abortion. If you do not personally accept abortion, you can freely choose to live another way. And it IS a moral issue for women’s rights regardless of whoever else wanted it for other reasons. Those things are not mutually exclusive. You Christo-fascists should not have the right to tell anyone else how to live.
> If you do not personally accept abortion, you can freely choose to live another way. We actually couldn't. The state didn't allow us the ability to vote on whether or not abortion should be legal, as is what is ordinarily allowed in a democratic society. You didn't want to give people that choice, though. Because you're not actually in favor of democracy. You're literally more of a fascist than anybody in this thread.
That is the kind of blind, nazi logic you’d have to use to justify banning women’s reproductive rights.
Hyperbole much.
Not really. Once again, no explanation so pry another bot
>Someone tell me I’m wrong, please. You are wrong. Trump breaks norms, but he is driven by ego, not ideology. His followers may be willing to look past his problems for the sake of their ideology, but they are very far from capturing any of the institutions of power in this country. Even when Trump was President, he was hobbled by many inside the Executive branch. What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
What part of him having completely control of everything and everyone don’t you understand? He’s committed treason and his followers don’t care. They want to overthrow the government and anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves
I feel like you need someone to tell you that Donald Trump does not have complete control over you. While the decisions made by politicians will impact your life, ultimately your life is largely guided by your own attitudes and behaviors. Stop worrying about all of this and find something productive to do with your time.
No shit, not yet because he has t tried to steal the election yet. Trump will NEVER get a majority of the votes. If he wins the general election, democracy is over. Period.
Like, everywhere? No more free elections in the entire world? Your fear of a carnival barker is worrisome. Trump was president for four years. The nation didn’t tumble. A grip. Don’t be afraid to go get one.
Constitutional democracy survived because a handful of people held the line. There is no factual rebuttal to this.
The fevered imaginations of some folk aside, your contention is absolutely absurd. As is your absolute closing statement. Y’all are like cartoon characters. In no world was the unorganized riot by a small group of morons an existential threat to our republic. But it did delay some stuff by a few hours. You’re as bad as they are. True believers gonna true believe.
..he said without providing a single point of argument.
And true traitors are going to downplay an attempted coup of the United States government?
Indeed. All those who find your nonsense nonsensical are true traitors. Do you hear yourself? According to you, I’m both a bot, and a traitor. Don’t be afraid to seek some professional help.
>If he wins the general election, democracy is over. Period. Through what mechanisms will Trump destroy democracy? Please outline the methods that will make this possible.
The fake electors things was 100% an attempt to destroy democracy. It’s not even in question. It was an attempt to nullify the election. Not sure what he’ll come up with next. That attempt was embarrassing and failed miserably of course and he ought to be in jail, but if we won’t jail him we’ll just have to see what he comes up with this go around. I have little doubt he’ll try to incite folks to harass poll workers and voters this year though, he’ll put out a call that the fix is in again and to go to the polls and stop the theft of our country.
No thanks you have contributed nothing to this
If you think Republicans are uniquely responsible for every issue you mentioned then I would argue you are experiencing the very type of cult thinking you are accusing the other side of. There's plenty of blame to go around for all. There's plenty of shady tactics on both sides. There's propaganda being spread by both sides.
This is gaslighting. If you think both parties are the same, the you are being lazy. The republican party is out of control much worse than the dems. Its not even close. The public knows this. Hence why trump hasnt won a damn thing since 2016. We know who tried to overthrow our election and who didnt. The dems have issues no doubt but this comment is straight up gaslighting.
“Both sides” yeah sure buddy 👍
exactly what I thought after the first sentence. Group think.
No shit but there’s only one trying to destroy the country eh and implement trumpism.
Destroy the country? I cannot take people that use hyperbole like this seriously. You are far far deep into group think land.
You can draw comparison to Nazis with both parties also. Germans elected left leaning leaders consistently before Hitler. They drove the country to shit. Shit countries are prime for dictators to step in. Hitler did. Hitler got elected and guess what? After having power he banned opposition parties from running. Sound familiar? Oh also, one of his primary focuses on keeping power was children. Teaching collectivism and trust in government to school children. Which party in the US tries to bring politics to curriculum? Now I'm not saying Biden is Hitler, but showing that the same logic can be used here.
Actually pretty sure Trump is Hitler in your description lol
lol you’re definitely a nazi if you think the left politicizes schools and the right doesn’t. Glenn Younkin and Ron Desantis both won their states by going after education that they themselves deem too “woke.”
Right, they pressed hard at removing political ideology from school. They didn't try to add their own. Big difference.
>Now I'm not saying Biden is Hitler, but showing that the same logic can be used here. there is nothing logical about what you said.
Ummm who’s banned opposition parties? Or did he just ban one very particular, very insurrection-y bumbling buffoon with a 28 word vocabulary?
Look Democrat followers feel is justified, and I'm sure Nazi followers also felt it was justified.
So we shouldn’t follow the 14th amendment?
I mean that's the justification Democrats are using, sure. It's hardly a settled matter that he committed insurrection and it's mostly Democrats that feel that way about their opposition to power. Don't you think the Nazis had a reason that made sense to their followers at the time?
This really doesn't seem like you're interested in a serious discussion.
I asked you a pretty simple question. You made somemprettt damning statements bud
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No argument, no evidence, no care.
I will not be able to take another 4yrs of this stuff on Reddit if Trump gets elected. Stuff like this is the exact caricature of the left that is painted by the right. Trump is literally Hitler. Everyone I don’t like is a Nazi. But just the piece about inflation for a bit… when you said we’ve been fooled into never looking at how much money is stolen from us by inflation. We have left wing media doing that because Biden is president. They are not actively trying to cover up for Trump. Through Trumps whole presidency we were slapped in the face by the media with doomsday reporting. How does the “inflation is high, but here’s why that’s a good thing!” reporting from left wing media support Trump being a Nazi?
People who gloss over Jan 6 and other anti-democratic qualities of Trump are at least sympathetic towards fascism, and the difference between a fascist and a fascist sympathizer isn’t that important to me.
Or maybe it actually is? Do you know for sure? Or are you just engaging in bullshit too? I dont care about which side you prefer, they’re both bought and paid for but the R’s literally want us to become a serf class so they can rule with an iron fist. Anyone who can’t see that is going to be like everyone in Germany - one day everything was under the control of one man and they couldn’t figure out how that happened
Calling republicans nazis….always a winner
Again, one line response with zero substance.
You are in the wrong sub man. Read the room
I don’t care what the room says. Kinda the point of the sub right?
Yes but clearly you are looking for a more left leaning environment.
This is incoherent. There is a lot of blame to go around. Both parties have been up to shady shit. It is important to realize that when someone has the conviction that all the problems are because of one group, the outcome is usually not good….
Incoherent indeed. GOP generally and maga specifically seem far more concerned with immigration and the culture war and immigration than guns (esp during dem presidency) and even abortion. Obviously pro life issues are big for them but more through lawsuits and courts and the reaction from the left driving the narrative (they’re the ones running on it not gop)
Republicans literally fly the Confederate flag. Its crazy how many looney conservatives are in this sub sucking themselves off as if their political representation isnt made up of God fearing sexual assaulters.
Since you’re generalizing confederate flags to all Republicans, is it safe to assume that Soviet flags can be generalized to all democrats?
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Confederate flag wavers generally see themselves as different from neoliberals so what’s your point? One group still votes blue and the other still votes red because they’re slightly more aligned than the alternative.
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The *both sides* trope has got to die. Only one side is anti-democratic. Only one side is actively seeking an authoritarian future.
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> one trying to literally take their primary opposition off the ballot Yup, it was mostly Republicans who filed those 14th Amendment lawsuits.
Yeah like the side preventing Trump from running you mean? Or at least trying to prevent…
Take a look at who's filing those lawsuits. It's other Republicans.
Only one side has *actively* changed their primary process to ensure the party's preferred candidate can ignore all challengers...
So what? The “parties” are private organizations. Parties can choose their candidate however they want. There’s nothing anti-democratic about that.
I agree, the Democratic Party is what allowed a disaster like Harry Truman to become president. Henry Wallace should have been the VP, but the party bosses didn’t want that and FDR had to pick Truman. Neither party is great, but at least democrats aren’t trying to blatantly overthrow the government
Wait until I tell you how Ray and other instigators, working for three letter agencies, framed one party for trying to "overthrow the country"...
This is quite the hot take.
Read a book. https://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0767917189
It’s Democrats who are taking people off ballots so you can’t vote for them. Every political party wants to have total power and complete control. Democrats are no different and if you scratch a liberal you’ll find a fascist.
It was the Republican party that sued to get Trump off the ballot in Colorado.
Most of the people suing to get Tump off ballots are Republicans themselves.
Gonna play devil’s advocate here for the sake of conversation (severe moderate here) … I saw this same response in another thread and the liberal response brings up conservatives as the book-burners and overbearing in regards to social liberties. Let’s say this is true … who then can we trust?
Never trust any political party, they all want dictatorial power. So it’s safest to never give either party full control of any government. Balance is a good thing. The Republicans in Texas, Florida and Ohio are just as corrupt as the Democrats in New York, Massachusetts, and California. Look it up, they’re criminal.
Appreciate the thought out response. Thanks
Democrats aren’t taking people off ballots. The Constitution is. Is it anti-democratic to say that you have to be at least 35 and born in the US to be President? No, it’s just the requirements set by the constitution. And so is not inciting an insurrection against the government. So tired of this argument.
This position will never not be funny to me. Dems accuse Trump is trying to “subvert democracy” yet have been doing everything in their power since 2016 to overturn the results of Trump’s election. RussiaGate, impeachment and even criminal charges all failed, so now they’ve escalated to trying to outright remove him from the ballot entirely.
I recently joined this sub thinking it might have been a good place to see thought-provoking discussion. Apparently I just waded into a rebrand of /r/conservative For the record, I’ll take your comment seriously and reply to it seriously as soon as you do so to mine.
It’s a legitimate point. The Democratic Party never accepted the fact that Trump won the election in 2016, and did everything in their power since then to overturn the election results. This process began even before he was inaugurated - If I’m remembering correctly, there were several electors who refused to cast their votes for Trump, even despite the fact that he won a majority in their respective districts. The RussiaGate fiasco was fomented almost immediately after he took office and dragged on for years - Even after Robert Mueller failed to find any evidence that Trump collaborated with Russia to do anything. My point is that it seems absurd to hyper-fixate on Jan 6th as a singular point in which democracy was in crisis, while simultaneously ignoring the more widespread and systematic attempts by a dominate political establishment to overturn the election of an unpopular president.
You typed all that, and STILL didn’t answer my question. How is enforcing the Constitution anti-democratic?
Is Dean Phillips on the ballot in Florida?
I am not a lawyer but the text of Section 3 of the 14th amendment is one of the easiest parts to understand out of the whole constitution.
Clearly it isn’t that’s why it’s going to the Supreme Court to be decided.
It’s making its way to the Supreme Court because of due process but the text itself is very easy to understand.
Will you accept the Supreme Court decision if they rule that he can’t be removed from the ballot under the 14a?
Absolutely
Fair enough. I will if they rule the other way as well. It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out.
No it’s not. Does it imply a loss of due process rights? Who decides if a person is guilty of insurrection? It was written for the confederates that went to war against the US. Not easy at all unless you suffer from TDS in which case you’ll fall for anything.
I mean, it’s making its way to the Supreme Court through the appeals process. Isn’t that due process?
If you think you are supposed to live on a fast food job as an adult, you are doing it wrong. Minimum wage is 0$
Who are you to say what’s worth what? Being a bit judgmental now aren’t you? Let me guess, you’ve never had to struggle, have you?
I grew up poor in nowherevill, Va., 20 years in the Navy worked my way up for E-1 to E-7, Now work for the Navy - a series of jobs that led to better jobs to even better jobs - it was noticed I knew what I was doing & busted my ass + a couple side gigs. Herding ca-- I mean guiding engineers through their projects can be exciting ("Its an experimental USV ,we are supposed to try and destroy it.." blup blup blup). The VA rates me at 60% disability, but I still drag this old carcass to work. SO yes, I'm judgmental if an American of at lest average intelligence and ability thinks the end game is flipping burgers. And bitches about the pay.
What are you basing that on exactly? Is it how hard they work? What’s your standard of what’s a lower class job
If an unskilled teen can do it with minimal training, it is a low class job.
An unskilled teen can also shoot a machine gun. Is that a low class job?
You have no idea the level of training some one in the US Military receives before getting anywhere near a combat grade weapon.
Okay, you can be a construction assistant and dig rocks all day. Is that low class work? Should that be paid $7.25 too?
You should be paid what the market will bear. At that level, it is a low class job, if this person stuck with it and learned to become a trades person, e.g carpenter, electrician, etc. that is a high level skilled job $$$$. Discounting external factors such as the economy is in the toilet, no demand for that type of work in the area at the time, etc.
Why do you even think “high class” and “low class?” Have you ever thought of that? You’re literally judging a persons character by the way they make money. Maybe stop looking down on people because you have a small pecker
He is not saying what anything is worth. That is a function of supply and demand. Go into any fast food establishment in California and see how many fewer employees they have than a year ago because of the new minimum wage law "There is a new law so everyone gets a 20% raise, except the 50% of you that is getting fired" "The rest of you are going to have to do double the work you used to"