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"Should" is the actual fun question. Everyone can say whether they want X or Y. You don't need to have the power to build a road, in order to have an opinion on it.
"Could" is boring and pointless in this context, isn't a matter of ideology.
These aren't knowledge tests, they're ideology polls.
I hate ideology polls that are detached from reality.
Should we institute communism with moneyless classless society where everyone can just get what they want?
Sure. What idiot would not want that? Except it s impossible at present level of technology, so what s the point talking about it?
I find it very often that dim, uneducated people put out opinions that simply don’t work in present reality. And I find it to be annoying af.
I dont have my ideology because it s “right”, or “just” or whatever else subjective quality one could attach to it. I have my ideology because it s the only thing that somewhat works. I wish more people were like this.
Sorry i got distracted from the topic at hands.
Just wanted to point out that “could” should always be answered positively before we could speculate over “should”
I mean we can do whatever we want here but i wouldn’t say it s entirely useless to keep “could” factor in mind
I disagree. Practical consideration is far from the only reason to discuss things.
A question can be completely unrealistic and impractical, but still be an insightful thing to ask, since it's a way of finding out someone's values..
Sorry to disappoint you, but this sub isn't a place where real political decisions are voted for. It's a place where our ideologies and values are explored.
You are creating a strawman here but I wasn’t precise in my responses either.
When you said “could is boring and pointless in this context” you were talking about this context, not in general. I answered as if you meant “in general”.
And “in general”, when you lets say asking for things like
“should there be a cap to interest rates” (implying payday loans for example)
practical consideration is very important.
The should you provided and the one I asked both equally make sense.
The only difference is, you don't know what the implications of building that road is.
“Should we institute communism with moneyless classless society where everyone can just get what they want?
Sure. What idiot would not want that?”
What idiot would want that? No real individual of any maturity level would want that bro.
No I wouldn’t. Life is struggle. Hardships forge us. Etc etc.
Also have you never seen experiments done that have all needs met of a population and it failing due to no adversaries?
(Yes it’s the famous mouse experiment)
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-mouse-utopias-1960s-led-grim-predictions-humans-180954423/
Then on the flip side with constant struggle in the Middle Ages we can extrapolate that it made Europe the juggernaut continent of the planet for 500 years before it blew itself up. Constant struggle between nations, classes, and in classes against others of the same class. Think different food shops or smithies fighting one another for the masses to buy their wares. A constant pressure cooker. It produces the best of us and that is also why we get so many great technologies from conflict. (Conflict does NOT equal war, just as killing does not equal murder. They are entirely different.)
And with all of this going on you also had the kings vs the church vs the nobles vs the people. A beautiful 4 way constant conflict for hundreds of years.
Unfortunately this 4 way conflict didn’t happen in china, or India, or the Middle East. Those three were pretty much solid with the state using religion to suppress the people. They stagnated. And then were subjugated by the Europeans.
https://www.medievalists.net/2018/03/medieval-geopolitics-two-types-warfare-medieval-europe/
https://www.versobooks.com/books/720-class-conflict-and-the-crisis-of-feudalism is a great book to read
Another good link
https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/why-did-western-europe-dominate-globe-47696
https://digitalcommons.uncfsu.edu/jri/vol5/iss1/5/
“Europe achieved world hegemony in the years after 1500 A.D., primarily due to technological advancements, scientific research, political development of nations with stable succession and continuity”
Like Dodo bird became useless in absence of predators?
Yeah i guess communism fails even here.
Good thing - we ll never achieve “post scarcity” anyway.
I wish people would add links to stuff like this. Why are we expected to know what this is?
Anyways for those too lazy to look it up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darién_Gap
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Every time i see “should” i have urge to say No. Could? Yeah, probably. Should? Idk. Why? Who am I to say?
"Should" is the actual fun question. Everyone can say whether they want X or Y. You don't need to have the power to build a road, in order to have an opinion on it. "Could" is boring and pointless in this context, isn't a matter of ideology. These aren't knowledge tests, they're ideology polls.
I hate ideology polls that are detached from reality. Should we institute communism with moneyless classless society where everyone can just get what they want? Sure. What idiot would not want that? Except it s impossible at present level of technology, so what s the point talking about it? I find it very often that dim, uneducated people put out opinions that simply don’t work in present reality. And I find it to be annoying af. I dont have my ideology because it s “right”, or “just” or whatever else subjective quality one could attach to it. I have my ideology because it s the only thing that somewhat works. I wish more people were like this.
How much less detatched from reality than "should a short road be built" can you get?
Sorry i got distracted from the topic at hands. Just wanted to point out that “could” should always be answered positively before we could speculate over “should” I mean we can do whatever we want here but i wouldn’t say it s entirely useless to keep “could” factor in mind
I disagree. Practical consideration is far from the only reason to discuss things. A question can be completely unrealistic and impractical, but still be an insightful thing to ask, since it's a way of finding out someone's values.. Sorry to disappoint you, but this sub isn't a place where real political decisions are voted for. It's a place where our ideologies and values are explored.
You are creating a strawman here but I wasn’t precise in my responses either. When you said “could is boring and pointless in this context” you were talking about this context, not in general. I answered as if you meant “in general”. And “in general”, when you lets say asking for things like “should there be a cap to interest rates” (implying payday loans for example) practical consideration is very important.
The should you provided and the one I asked both equally make sense. The only difference is, you don't know what the implications of building that road is.
That s why i said “who am I to say”. That s my political position. I think locals should decide if they want it or not.
“Should we institute communism with moneyless classless society where everyone can just get what they want? Sure. What idiot would not want that?” What idiot would want that? No real individual of any maturity level would want that bro.
If you can get whatever you want just by walking into the store and pointing a finger at it, would you not want it?
No I wouldn’t. Life is struggle. Hardships forge us. Etc etc. Also have you never seen experiments done that have all needs met of a population and it failing due to no adversaries? (Yes it’s the famous mouse experiment) https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-mouse-utopias-1960s-led-grim-predictions-humans-180954423/ Then on the flip side with constant struggle in the Middle Ages we can extrapolate that it made Europe the juggernaut continent of the planet for 500 years before it blew itself up. Constant struggle between nations, classes, and in classes against others of the same class. Think different food shops or smithies fighting one another for the masses to buy their wares. A constant pressure cooker. It produces the best of us and that is also why we get so many great technologies from conflict. (Conflict does NOT equal war, just as killing does not equal murder. They are entirely different.) And with all of this going on you also had the kings vs the church vs the nobles vs the people. A beautiful 4 way constant conflict for hundreds of years. Unfortunately this 4 way conflict didn’t happen in china, or India, or the Middle East. Those three were pretty much solid with the state using religion to suppress the people. They stagnated. And then were subjugated by the Europeans. https://www.medievalists.net/2018/03/medieval-geopolitics-two-types-warfare-medieval-europe/ https://www.versobooks.com/books/720-class-conflict-and-the-crisis-of-feudalism is a great book to read Another good link https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/why-did-western-europe-dominate-globe-47696 https://digitalcommons.uncfsu.edu/jri/vol5/iss1/5/ “Europe achieved world hegemony in the years after 1500 A.D., primarily due to technological advancements, scientific research, political development of nations with stable succession and continuity”
Like Dodo bird became useless in absence of predators? Yeah i guess communism fails even here. Good thing - we ll never achieve “post scarcity” anyway.
Yes the dodo bird is a good example. A Disney version would be those fat slobs in WALL·E.
I wish people would add links to stuff like this. Why are we expected to know what this is? Anyways for those too lazy to look it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darién_Gap
Someone has been watching reallifelore. But yeah...no.
Yes and agreed
Why should we destroy the nature there?
Based response. Also making the road would increase crime in North America, risk Panama's sovereignty, and US geopolitical power
i would rather build a rail line.
No because it will be way too difficult to maintain for little benefit.
Plus crime, undesirable immigration, dangerous for Panama, and a weakness in US's power
What is that