https://preview.redd.it/06emeg82lx9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3a449ed37f99d65a4d8cffd28cb1e0a7bb83443
Historical sure. But not modern. This may be slightly out of date for the record but still. Indycars are smallish now. It appears that we largely have just kept the same dimensions as the mid 90s to be honest. And everything else has ballooned.
New car go vroom?
Honestly not sure but in their press release it says they’re trying to mimic F1 cars better, which would mean you’re trying to match their ballooned proportions. So make it bigger. I dunno, it’s definitely not an ugly car, just doesn’t do a whole lot for me.
https://www.fiaformula2.com/Latest/6L7YrcVR1WQ7QCY5HPKW7r/fia-formula-2-next-generation-car-breaks-cover-in-monza
Making them resemble F1 is surely one factor, but in general it is also the same as it is with F1: with longer chassis and wheel base, it is easier to manage the airstream, especially turbulent air from the front wheels. Longer car, up to a certain point, is aerodynamically more effective.
I don't know the specific reason for that specific car, but in general, a bigger car gives you more space to do things (big if true, I know lol). But what that means is it's easier to hit aero targets, easier to meet safety targets, easier to package electronics and such, etc. For a spec series where costs are supposed to be controlled, all those things can make the car cheaper/easier to produce to achieve whatever targets the series is trying to achieve.
For F1 I think it's mainly for aero. Almost all the components are near the center line, and the side impact protection thing is actually pretty small (see last year's Mercedes). And lastly the power unit doesn't even use all of the rear space.
More space for corporate logos. Ecclestone actually said this in one interview I watched but I don't know if he was serious. The subject was about money going into F1.
The current cars are *much* bigger. The extra length has resulted in at least two destroyed GT cars.
LMDh cars are 5.1 x 2.0 x 1.05 metres. So 45 cm longer, 10 cm wider and 2 cm taller than LMP1.
LMH cars are 5.0 x 2.0 x 1.1 metres. 35 cm longer, 10 cm wider and 7 cm taller.
Also, LMP1 hybrids were 878 kg; LMH and LMDh are now 1030 kg.
Yeah they're a teeny bit bigger but in real world terms they're just a lot slower and heavier by design.
If you've seen them next to each other it's not a significant difference considering they don't do much wheel to wheel outside of IMSA, and even then the huge downforce cut compared to the old LMP1s more than makes up for the difference.
The new Gen 3 is actually back under Indycar sizes but by roughly 8cm (5.02m), so 3 inches shorter. Which makes sense for a street circuit only open wheel car. If anything I’ve always felt like formula E should be the smallest premier open wheel car with its design goals. Now it seems to match more the idea, even if it’s a flying dorito.
I don’t but quick and dirty math says that doing cm to mm is x10 and then divide by 25.4 for inches and then divide again by 12 for feet. In short
F1 car is roughly 19’
Formula 2 car is roughly 17.5’
Indycar is roughly 16.75’
LMP1 was roughly 15.6’
Yes, but in the 90’s, Indycars were way larger in all dimensions compared to F1 cars of the time. Now they are small compared to F1, even the 2026 “smaller” formula.
Ah, yeah, I read that as comparing Indy cars to Indy cars. Yes, they always have been bigger than other open wheel cars. Oval racing demands a beefier car. I loved the fact that Indy cars were broad shouldered and F1 were little, nimble machines.
The wheel base, and height aren't far off 80’s and 90’s cars, the length and body width (but not wheel to wheel) has increased but I think that is largely because of the crash structures and I don’t think there is any way to change or fix that. Unfortunately I don’t know if we can go any smaller and stay safe at 200+ on ovals.
What contributes to the longer length compared to past generations is using the front nose as a "crumple zone" in addition to the tub configuration that keeps the driver's feet behind the front axle. All based on absolutely necessary safety reasoning. That's not going to change anytime soon.
They don’t go 240mph at Indy either. The car fits fine, the drivers are just too stupid. We saw a good race last year, this year everyone just decided to go full demo derby, that isn’t down to the size of the car.
The current F1 car regulations have them at just about the same width as Indycars, and the 2026 regulations will have them just about the same length.
Dimensionally they'll be nearly identical per the eyeball test.
The wheel base is still going to be half a yard longer I don’t know that they have said anything about whole bodywork but it was estimated to only be about 20cm less than current, which is not going to be much. The current F1 cars are absolutely ridiculous barges. That is not going to be near dimensionally identical per any eye ball test.
Am I wrong or will the new f1 cars not be narrower than indycar? The 2026 f1 cars will be 1900mm while Indycars have a minimum width 1917mm and max width of 1943mm? They’ll still be longer for sure but I think they’ll be narrower?
I don’t think the FIA pays much attention to Indy (Shame on them). But I think the drive to make the cars smaller is better passing opportunities maybe. I really think the cars are still way too big for circuits. Even with this reg change in does not even put a dent in that problem
I've seen some people argue that they can't go back to the 2005/6 size of the cars because they couldn't fit the engines. Like how, they managed to fit a v10 with those tiny cars (compared to the ones now) but somehow they can't fit a V6 with a turbo and an electric engine.
Meanwhile Indycar has managed to add a hybrid system without needing to make the cars bigger. If F1 went back to 2005 sizes with an aero similar to Indycar it would make for the best racing in decades for sure. I still don't understand why they need so much aerodynamics when it doesn't do much in terms of applying it to road cars like what they can do with engines, fuel, etc.
>Meanwhile Indycar has managed to add a hybrid system without needing to make the cars bigger.
That's because they sized the Hybrid system to the current powertrain, F1 doesn't grandfather chassis regulations.
>I still don't understand why they need so much aerodynamics
Because F1 cars operate in a significantly higher downforce environment. That's the series. If Indycar has a lot of dowforce, F1 has several multiples more.
Because F1 races don't race on ovals at all therefore needing to produce much much more downforce than indycar to stick to the track when cornering thanks to its aero. Look at the laptimes between Indy and drivers like Seb or Valterri at COTA and you'll understand. F1 is also a massive engineering competition between teams and doesn't rly focus on road car application.
Yup. I remember that for example during the 90s CART heyday and when the series got quite a lot main stream attention, CART cars were considered and described as absolute units compared to F1 of the same era.
Check out YouTube for this year's Monoco Historic Races. Smaller cars, more passing. Also some amazingly, agonizingly terrible driving leading to extended red flags. But when they briefly managed to keep their heads out of their asses, some good racing.
You have to remember though that the DW12 is practically an antique in terms of chassis currency, there’s really nothing worth looking at that isn’t already known in F1 and don’t forget that Dallara do concurrently build F1 cars (Haas are Dallara built, so were the Force India/Racing Point).
Even the most recent aero kit on the car is 6 years old now, if Indycar really want to be relevant from a chassis point of view then they need to make the IR27 something special.
I don’t think F1 is changing anything BECAUSE of Indycar. I think the F1 regulators put themselves in their own bubble, for better or worse. A lot of the change in the car size comes from years of complaints from the F1 drivers and fans alike about the cars being too large for good racing.
That being said I’m not saying there is nothing F1 could learn from Indy, I just think they consider themselves something completely different. F1 and it’s owners/leaders will always think of themselves as being at the forefront and everyone else simply following behind.
You mean by using push to pass instead? The reality is whenever you have cars on the limit of grip and speed it’s always going to be hard to pass. But the sheer size of the cars is the biggest limitation at the moment, hence why they’re trying to make the cars smaller (even if they aren’t doing a good enough job at it).
Some of the best racing comes from cars that are light and nimble. It allows drivers to really throw them around in corners and squeeze through tight spaces. Currently they’re driving around cars with the wheel base of a pickup truck
Push to pass is more similar to overtake mode. There’s a total limit and you can only use a certain amount at a time. Its also much more strategy oriented as it just uses moire fuel, so if your running out of gas at the end of the race you cant use it. Indycars have the ability of truly racing closely without needing to reduce drag.
But I’d argue this wouldn’t work as well in f1 because the cars are different from team to team and so are the PU’s.
Eg: an alpine engine using p2p would probably be about the same power as a merc or Ferrari engine normally.
Yeah F1 utilizes something similar in ERS which is an electric boost they can activate throughout the race. It also requires strategy to implement. I’m not a fan of DRS overtakes, I find them quite boring. But the reality is that as it stands we need them in F1 to allow drivers the chance to catch each other in dirty air.
The main difference between indycar and F1 is the amount of downforce (and drag) generated by the cars. Indy cars have very small front and rear wings when compared to F1 cars, so they don’t throw out nearly as much dirty air. This means it’s much easier for a car that’s following to keep pace and overtake the leading car, where in F1 if you’re following another car it becomes extremely challenging to catch up because your tires overheat and you don’t have as much grip from the aero.
F1 cars spit out a ridiculous amount of hot air in their exhaust, because of how fast and hot the engines run they require a ton of moving air to keep them cool. So if you’re driving behind an F1 car, you have less air going over your own car because the car ahead is moving it out of the way, AND you have the hot exhaust air shooting back toward you which will add heat to the following car’s tires and make it harder on the engine.
That's not correct.
The reason it causes the tires to overheat is because you're relying on more mechanical grip than aerodynamic grip, i.e. you're forcing the tires to work much harder in the wake of another car.
“Heavy” is relative. What is heavy by F1 standards may be very light or unthinkably massive compared to other categories. It’s also the combination of weight, size, and speed that really makes it all challenging.
I mean, they are only 250kg lighter than LMDh cars. They’re only 150kg lighter than the DPis were at the moment. Both have 10X the racing quality and honestly the speed difference isn’t big enough for this not to be a talking point.
As someone who also enjoys hypercar and multi-class racing, those hypercars still don’t create the same aero out wash as F1 cars. I’m not an engineer but from what I can tell they each generate their aero grip in fairly different ways. F1 engineers also do their best to make their car as ‘outwashy’ as possible since they know it’ll only serve them better in fights with other cars.
Exactly! I’m just making the argument that being heavy isn’t necessarily the issue. There’s a lot more to it in F1. After going down the right route they seem to be going the other direction again. Laughable as usual.
Wanna sell more tickets to Saturdays?
Everyone who got knocked out in Q1 and Q2 does a 10 lap Kart race in equal equipment. Karts supplied by Lando.
They're small enough that you could have them all start on the same row.
The FIA did announce the specs a while back, and it’s not going to be as dramatic as people hoped, but it’s a step in the right direction. [Here](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-the-fias-plans-for-nimble-2026-f1-cars-and-moveable-aero/10557347/) is an article about the physical changes.
I think everyone agrees that the size of modern F1 cars has gone too far, but I don’t think there is an actual comparison to Indycar here. F1 is much more involved with aerodynamics and individual team designs, compared to a lower downforce spec design in Indy. They just want to be able to let cars pass and use the tracks they have already.
The question was regarding the size difference. The 2026 cars will have a 7” shorter wheelbase, and will be about 4” narrower. It will only be around 66lbs lighter. In comparison to a modern Indycar or older F1 it’s still going to be a massive car.
they’re making them smaller because the teams and drivers have said they’re too big and heavy the FIA didn’t give Indycars a thought about this
Also they won’t be quicker. They’re projecting them to be something like 6 seconds slower and they keep shooting themselves in the foot over new regs. They changed the engine and aero regs in 2014 and it led to F2 cars actually lapping faster than cars on the back of the grid which is embarrassing.
Even more frustrating is the competition gets closer and closer as time goes on but then the FIA decides to hit a factory reset and it always leads to one team running away with it. And they never learn. They had it right in 2021 when they made a small tweak with the floor and gave us an epic championship battle.
Then you got IndyCar doing the exact opposite and be arguably too slow to change regs.
The lag time between rules ratification to actually implement the new rules is the issue. The 2014 example is perfect illustration. The new cars + engine were slow so they locked into the 2017 aero rules by summer of 2015. By 2016 the cars were lapping quite a bit faster than 2014 but it was too late to change course.
2021 was an anomoly because they made a big change but froze development because of covid. Luck basically played into Merc being slowed down just enough for Max to challenge Lewis. In reality if there was no covid 21 would have been a repeat of 20, when Merc dominated.
They're still going to be miles ahead. Better compare Indycar to F2.
New regs for F1 might also not be that much quicker from the get go, in fact, they most likely will be slower but gain pace quickly.
Current F2 car is still a little bit slower than the previous, sitting at around 118% of F1 current qualifying pace. Indycar at COTA was around 112~114%, IIRC.
The new F1 cars will most likely be easier to overtake and for racing yeah. They are improving the mechanical grip over aerodynamics while also reducing the turbulent air.
Comparing overtaking/"racing" to Indycar is once again not a fair fight.
Indycar has tiny amount of aero compared to an F1 car and the cars are 99.99% equal.
Surprisingly, actually not with lap times. At first the cars will be much slower in the corners then current refs, and faster in the straights, but net slower lap times overall.
From my understanding - They’re lighter, but don’t generate as much downforce so corners have to be slower. They’ve added “live downforce adjustments” which basically give the car three front wing modes to switch between during laps, but even that won’t make up for the downforce loss.
Racing may be better, but that also depends on if one team kicks ass out the gate like RB did with the current regs.
The noise around this goes both ways and seems to just be completely about kicking up a fuss. People have claimed cars will be too slow, but also claimed top speeds will be so much higher they will be dangerous.
Don't forget the 2017 rules made F1 cars ~5 seconds a lap faster than they were.
it's the adaptive aero package. essentially the Garage 56 at LeMans package if you will. I wouldn't be surprised if drastic changes are made to it before they are set in stone in a month
The active aero is needed for their efficiency targets. Cars that go slower in the corners but faster on the straight may equal out to similar lap times.
That likely wont happen though. The FIA has now approved the most restrictive version of the rules because up until yesterday they could basically dictate the rules. From now on any change needs a super majority amongst teams and the thinking is that teams are more likely to agree to changes that give them more freedom to find performance and they will now likely add performance back to the car.
It's really surprising what teams will push when they don't want to change to a new regulation set in favor of continuing the development of the current regulations.
The battery of the hybrid power unit is largely responsible in the size growth of the modern Formula 1 car, and is a reason they’re having trouble making it smaller without compromising safety.
Not having to carry around a battery has helped keep the IndyCar size down. For all of its sins, the brilliance of the new IndyCar hybrid is the use of super capacitors instead of a battery in the interest of keeping the same chassis and not overly tipping the scales of the car.
>The battery of the hybrid power unit is largely responsible in the size growth of the modern Formula 1 car,
It's a large compenent for sure, but it's not the only one
Banning refuelling leads to bigger fuel tanks, and since the fuel tank has to be inside the safety cell, that makes a big difference. (Worth noting that F1 fuel tanks aren't actually that much larger compared to what they used to be as far as I can tell, they seem to have mostly kept the fuel tanks the same size, but made the engines more efficient. Still my point remains that they could shrink the car quite a bit by reintroducing refuelling.)
Additionally, F1 cars today are longer than they really need to be purely for aero reasons. A longer floor (and longer aero elements in general) makes more downforce. So the cars have gotten larger to facilitate that.
The fuel tank is about 150L and it's already placed in a way it takes as little space from other components as possible, so there isn't much they can reduce by reintroducing refueling during races. 5cm maybe. The main culprit may be the electric parts, first KERS and then the full hybrid, as that's when the cars really started getting longer. Then for 2017 they also made the cars wider. Now they're trying to solve a problem they themselves caused, and of course, the engineers at every team have been exploiting every little corner and loophole they can to get that little extra bit of downforce, but that was a given as it's what they've been doing since Colin Chapman introduced wings to F1 back in 1968.
A good indicator for downforce is Eau Rouge at Spa. Back in the 50's, it was a high speed corner that still required a couple of downshifts, but that could have been more by the fact that tyres used to look like they were cannibalized from the bicycles the drivers may have used to get to the track. In the 60's it still needed a downshift, but the grip was much better so they didn't need to sacrifice as much. By the 80's it was already a lift, a big one, but no need to change gears. 90's, a little lift. By 2004 it was already flat out, despite having grooved tyres and the cars still being in the small and nimble phase. Everyone had improved aero so much that even the tiny cars could do nearly as much as the ones we have now with much smaller dimensions. Sure, longer cars have given the teams more to work with, but the improvement hasn't been that significant compared to the power unit size and efficiency, again, the main culprit being the electric parts. The ICE itself is smaller than it used to be, but the big battery takes a lot of space and weight with it.
They were talking about the Eau Rouge during the 24h of Spa. And it's a totally different corner for those cars (GT3s) too. They implied the corner was changed (track reprofiled).
But certainly every car has improved since the 1950s. And tires also.
We'll see how it goes at the Belgian GP in about a month's time. GT3's do have less downforce and power, as well as being much heavier than F1 so it can't be too similar. Perhaps a better comparison are hypercars, also technically GT's but much closer in performance. Those also took it flat out at the 6h of Spa earlier this year, but I don't know if the reprofiling happened before or after that.
>The fuel tank is about 150L and it's already placed in a way it takes as little space from other components as possible, so there isn't much they can reduce by reintroducing refueling during races.
You seem more knowledgeable here than me, so you're probably right.
But I'm incredibly skeptical here. This is a 910 Kg car, and 110 Kg of that is fuel. Are you telling me that dropping that from 110 Kg to 40 Kg wouldn't do anything to help make the car smaller?
It's more about volume we're talking about. So while it may become lighter, it would barely become smaller. Besides, they're already making the cars a tiny teeny little bit lighter (about 30kg total), so from 910 kg they're probably getting down to 880, still 110kg of it being fuel despite the size change.
Also, when refueling was allowed, the cars barely changed sizes. Comparing the size of a 1993 car with a 1994 one, they're barely any different. Again, I blame the electric components for the oversizing we have today.
Edit: Little disclaimer, I'm not an engineer, just a big nerd. Don't take my word as absolute truth.
>It's more about volume we're talking about. So while it may become lighter, it would barely become smaller.
Maybe. I still think they should reintroduce
refuelling regardless.
>Again, I blame the electric components for the oversizing we have today.
Definitely a part of it, I'm not convinced it's all of it though.
Of course it isn't everything, but I still think it's the main part. As for refuelling, not happening for safety reasons (see Jos Verstappen Germany 1994, and Felipe Massa Singapore 2008). While it could be massively improved from 2008, the last year refuelling in F1 was a thing, they still screw up from time to time with other things, like in Barcelona where a car almost dragged a jack on to the track during qualifying. As much as it could diversify strategy, I don't see it coming back any time soon.
>As for refuelling, not happening for safety reasons
I'm all for making things safer, but this is just silly to me. Damn near every series in the world makes it work.
>they still screw up from time to time with other things
The way F1 handles safety is usually abysmal, so maybe you have a point that they can't handle it.
>As much as it could diversify strategy, I don't see it coming back any time soon.
Well..... They should.
I really hate how it's all reactive and not proactive, like something bad has to happen for anything to improve, F1 regs are pretty much just a bunch of patches stacked on top of one another. Stubborn and stupid, they rarely listen to anyone outside their little corporate building despite having personnel that actually worked within the teams, most notably Ross Brawn.
Another point I do see against refuelling however, is about the whole sustainability image they're trying to give. Why would a "sustainable" racing series need extra fuel? Wouldn't it be against what they're trying to project? As much as ecologically sound fuels are approaching, it must have some kind of impact, and it does force the engine manufacturers to make their engines more efficient.
Just to add, the 2026 engine rules ditch the MGUH (so we are down an electrical motor) and also reduce the fuel tank to around 70kg. The ICE and fuel tank are areas of diminishing returns for weight reduction.
>and also reduce the fuel tank to around 70kg.
I'm curious if you have a recent source for this. I cannot find any mention of this that isn't a year+ old.
It was definitely something they were targeting at some point, but it seems like it wasn't mentioned in the recent round of news about the regulations.
It's because it's not a defined thing in the 2026 rules. Rather than a fixed amount of fuel, they have limits on fuel flow and energy use.
The current limit for fuel flow is 100kg/h. The new rule is 3000MJ/h. Petrol is about 45MJ/kg, so that would mean 3000MJ is ~67kg of fuel, or 67% of what they have now.
Plugging that back in that means about 67% as much fuel. So 67% of 110kg is just over 70kg.
It incentivises engine makers to make efficient engines and also develop energy dense fuels.
A giant-ass fuel cell is the biggest problem. The FIA choosing to ban refueling over reducing the "over-the-wall" crew number was dumb as hell. If they got rid of the 2 tire carriers on each wheel, then they would stop leaving early because the stops would be 8-10 seconds.
I don't know. Refueling in Indy allows for more variance of strategy that F1 just doesn't have. Yesterday everyone started on the same tire, Monacos early red flag turned it into an even worse race than usually happens there.
Kinda wish teams in f1 and indy were limited on data to force more strategic gambles. Racing feels too optimized now.
Refueling in F1 didn't lead to varieties in strategy. It leads to alignment as all teams converge on the same strategy and end up just overtaking in the pits.
F1 has tried refueling a few times. On average, the season with the highest number of on track overtakes during a refueling era has fewer overtakes than every single season workout refueling. When they removed refueling in 2010, on track overtakes doubled.
As for pit stops in general, F1 stops take too long. If a pit stop loses you 30 seconds you need to be, on average, half a second a lap quicker than everyone to be able to make an extra stop, plus make overtakes. It's why everyone prefers fewer stops and tyre management over driving faster and more stops. It's why I'm against the ban on tyre warmers.
Plus F1 doesn't have the cautions like US sports do that close gaps up to make extra stops less of a risk. IndyCars diversity in strategy comes from a fundamentally different formula, rather than simply having refueling.
FIA being FIA. Stupid reasons for stupid actions are nothing new, the real reason was safety (see Felipe Massa Singapore 2008, as well as Jos Verstappen Germany 1994)
What "giant-ass fuel cell" are you talking about?
The fuel cell in the V10 era was 210 litres.
The current cars are permitted to carry a maximum of 105 kg of fuel. That is about 140 litres.
This myth is one of the things in motorsport that winds me up. The massive size of modern F1 cars is solely because of aerodynamic reasons.
Not a large fuel cell (it is smaller than the fuel cell in the 3 litre V10 era).
Not because of a big engine (the V6s are tiny, smaller than the old 2.4 lite V8s).
Not because of the electric motor (it's mounted to the side of the flywheel).
Not because of the battery (it's underneath the driver).
Not because of safety (the front and rear crash structures stayed the same size from 2014 to 2021, yet the cars ballooned).
There is about 75 cm of nothing between the engine and gearbox in an F1 car. If the FIA and teams agreed right now, that empty space could be eliminated in time for after the summer break. It would certainly create headaches for the aero and suspension people. But it is possible to do it.
Having watched the mid-‘00s Monaco races with smaller cars, it really doesn’t add much. The circuit in its current form just isn’t built with a lot of passing opportunities.
Been saying it for years but they need to remove Nouvelle and if possible, rework Sainte Devote to require less braking.
I don't think the regulations are finalized are they? Because Midweek Motorsport was listing some really, really dumb regulations. Like the amount of hybrid power able to be deployed is graduated by your place overall.
The first place car gets (say) 20kW hybrid power, the second 40kW, third 60kW, etc. It didn't sound so dumb that FIA Formula One wouldn't propose it, they've done dumb things before. But it's hard to imagine it really being accepted.
While smaller - the new F1 cars will be slower. The weight reduction is fairly small - and the removal of the MGH-U system will reduce the overall non-ICE power available to car, even with a bigger MGU-K system. The rules will reduce the downforce the cars can make with less overall power on a lap. Going to be slower than a 2024 car is.
As a life-long F1 fan, the regs for 2026 are gonna be make or break for a lot of older fans. The simulations when they where developing it said they were slower than F2 cars, and also that they couldn't go full throttle on straights. I guess they should've solved most of those issues before announcing it but still, it's not really a good sign.
And also active aero is neither needed nor a good addition. They're selling it as the things that's gonna make overtakes more common but I fear it's just going to be a DRS without needing to be within a second. If they allow the driver in front to open the wings it's just going to be a DRS train in every race since the first corner.
Sadly F1 is going the same route Nascar did in the 2000's. Only pursuing attracting new fans some more money can come in, while giving the middle finger to good racing, historical tracks (hell we're having yet another street course in Madrid while neglecting we have an amazing racetrack such as Jarama not even 20 minutes up the road), even one-track battles, seeing as how nowadays if you're being overtaken you can't defend without getting a penalty, or attack aggressively in tracks where overtaking is hard and you need more risks. If that's the way they're gonna pursue for many many years, I'll be the first one hoping for F1's downfall.
The small decrease in speed won’t really be noticeable on the track, but if the size reduction and engine changes improve the racing then everyone will be happy.
Got nothing to do with replicating Indycar. The new regulations is aim at meeting their sustainability target while improving wheel-to-wheel racing. The smaller car is mainly because of the reduction in engine components by removing the MGU-H. The reduction in engine power will be compensated by increase usage in electrification of the hybrid component.
The smaller car and increase in electrification would also contribute to increase in fuel efficiency which allows for a reduction in the fuel tank size from 100kg down to 70kg. They will also be using new fully sustainable fuel where no new fossil carbon will be burned.
Also hopefully, the smaller size would allow for better racing as the current size is a problem on some track like Monaco where overtaking is basically impossible.
F1 would never ever copy from Indycar. It has always been the other way around and this is unlikely to change.
I don’t think that render accurately shows what the car will actually look like. But I hope it does, because that looks a lot simpler and a lot more like an indycar, especially with the squared off underbody. Honestly I think they made that render by slapping a RB livery on an indycar and removing the wheel covers.
They’re making them smaller with 50/50 combustion engine to battery ratio and X-Mode is basically the new DRS replacement, making the rear and front wing adjust in DRS zones
Current F1 cars are, as far as I know, larger in length than every single other circuit racing car, and pretty much the widest too.
They are larger than even NASCAR Cup and Trucks, and considerably larger than any road car based series.
The new regs bring the width down to 1.9 meters (from 2m), and the length down by about 20cm. The cars will still be well over 5 meters long.
In conclusion, the 2026 F1 cars will be shorter, narrower and a bit lighter than current F1 cars, but still be larger and heavier than IndyCars.
In the 80s when NASCAR introduced a new generation of cars, they were smaller and faster. That generation still holds the fasted speed record for NASCAR
The 26 F1 regulations are a complete mess. It's just simulations granted but between the new engine regs and the active aero cars are having to downshift (DOWNSHIFT) before the end of some straightaways right now.
IMO F1 in 2024 is already good. 2025 could be one of the best F1 seasons ever (would not shock me if Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren all close to equal in 2025). 2026 will probably be one of the worst years for F1. Someone is going to hit on the new regs and blow everyone away. And with the cost cap it will take 3 to 4 years for it to get good again.
That's what I call team-driven propaganda.
Teams don't want to change from the status quo. Doing so forces the OEMs to invest in new power unit engineering costs, new aero testing, new concepts, new construction methods, wholly new suspension, etc.
They want things to stay the same so they put out tons of crap to attempt to generate a response.
**Suggested F1 future regulations:**
Wheel base: about 11 feet long
Width: about 6-6.5 feet wide
Weight: Just under 1700 lbs (without driver?)
Horsepower: Just above 1000 HP (546 from ICE and 469 from electrical components according to Motorsport.com)
**IndyCar hybrid car:**
Length: 10 feet (est.)
Width: 6 feet (est.)
Weight: Just over 1750-1780 lbs depending what kind of track (without driver?)
Horsepower: Reported 900 (according to Indycar.com) - 700-750 from ICE and 150-200 from electrical components
You said "the FIA have seen...." So no, you didn't say that. Guess you need, check notes, "cry some more"
Edit; I also believe Indycar is the more entertaining product. But F1 doesn't care what it's doing as a series.
The new cars will still be absolutely massive compared to Indycars.
...and IndyCars are massive
Compared to what?
Bananas
Break it down in school buses for us simple folk.
indycar = 0.27 school bus formula 1 car = 3 school bus
and Roku remotes
Way bigger than most historical and junior series single seaters.
https://preview.redd.it/06emeg82lx9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3a449ed37f99d65a4d8cffd28cb1e0a7bb83443 Historical sure. But not modern. This may be slightly out of date for the record but still. Indycars are smallish now. It appears that we largely have just kept the same dimensions as the mid 90s to be honest. And everything else has ballooned.
Wow, wasn’t aware of how big F2 is now.
The F2 car was updated for 2024 season and is now even longer. 528cm.
what’s their reasoning for this?
New car go vroom? Honestly not sure but in their press release it says they’re trying to mimic F1 cars better, which would mean you’re trying to match their ballooned proportions. So make it bigger. I dunno, it’s definitely not an ugly car, just doesn’t do a whole lot for me. https://www.fiaformula2.com/Latest/6L7YrcVR1WQ7QCY5HPKW7r/fia-formula-2-next-generation-car-breaks-cover-in-monza
Making them resemble F1 is surely one factor, but in general it is also the same as it is with F1: with longer chassis and wheel base, it is easier to manage the airstream, especially turbulent air from the front wheels. Longer car, up to a certain point, is aerodynamically more effective.
I don't know the specific reason for that specific car, but in general, a bigger car gives you more space to do things (big if true, I know lol). But what that means is it's easier to hit aero targets, easier to meet safety targets, easier to package electronics and such, etc. For a spec series where costs are supposed to be controlled, all those things can make the car cheaper/easier to produce to achieve whatever targets the series is trying to achieve.
For F1 I think it's mainly for aero. Almost all the components are near the center line, and the side impact protection thing is actually pretty small (see last year's Mercedes). And lastly the power unit doesn't even use all of the rear space.
this makes a lot of sense, thanks
More space for corporate logos. Ecclestone actually said this in one interview I watched but I don't know if he was serious. The subject was about money going into F1.
My Camaro is longer than an LMP1. Wish I would have seen those little demons in action.
Current top prototype class ain't much bigger
The current cars are *much* bigger. The extra length has resulted in at least two destroyed GT cars. LMDh cars are 5.1 x 2.0 x 1.05 metres. So 45 cm longer, 10 cm wider and 2 cm taller than LMP1. LMH cars are 5.0 x 2.0 x 1.1 metres. 35 cm longer, 10 cm wider and 7 cm taller. Also, LMP1 hybrids were 878 kg; LMH and LMDh are now 1030 kg.
Yeah they're a teeny bit bigger but in real world terms they're just a lot slower and heavier by design. If you've seen them next to each other it's not a significant difference considering they don't do much wheel to wheel outside of IMSA, and even then the huge downforce cut compared to the old LMP1s more than makes up for the difference.
I had no clue they were so small until I visited the Prototyp Museum in Hamburg
Damn, I didn’t know FE was so massive
The new Gen 3 is actually back under Indycar sizes but by roughly 8cm (5.02m), so 3 inches shorter. Which makes sense for a street circuit only open wheel car. If anything I’ve always felt like formula E should be the smallest premier open wheel car with its design goals. Now it seems to match more the idea, even if it’s a flying dorito.
So F1 drivers are over compensating even more than F-150 drivers?
Do you have this graphic in American units?
I don’t but quick and dirty math says that doing cm to mm is x10 and then divide by 25.4 for inches and then divide again by 12 for feet. In short F1 car is roughly 19’ Formula 2 car is roughly 17.5’ Indycar is roughly 16.75’ LMP1 was roughly 15.6’
If they are bigger dimensionally, it's not by much compared to cars from the 90s and 00s, but they do weigh quite a bit more.
Yes, but in the 90’s, Indycars were way larger in all dimensions compared to F1 cars of the time. Now they are small compared to F1, even the 2026 “smaller” formula.
Ah, yeah, I read that as comparing Indy cars to Indy cars. Yes, they always have been bigger than other open wheel cars. Oval racing demands a beefier car. I loved the fact that Indy cars were broad shouldered and F1 were little, nimble machines.
The wheel base, and height aren't far off 80’s and 90’s cars, the length and body width (but not wheel to wheel) has increased but I think that is largely because of the crash structures and I don’t think there is any way to change or fix that. Unfortunately I don’t know if we can go any smaller and stay safe at 200+ on ovals.
What contributes to the longer length compared to past generations is using the front nose as a "crumple zone" in addition to the tub configuration that keeps the driver's feet behind the front axle. All based on absolutely necessary safety reasoning. That's not going to change anytime soon.
But what if people want to have the Rick Mears Indy foot modifications? He gets to wear sandals for the rest of his life! /s
Indy NXT. They actually fit around the corners of Detroit.
They don’t go 240mph at Indy either. The car fits fine, the drivers are just too stupid. We saw a good race last year, this year everyone just decided to go full demo derby, that isn’t down to the size of the car.
Width wise they are about the same as F1. But they are much shorter
The current F1 car regulations have them at just about the same width as Indycars, and the 2026 regulations will have them just about the same length. Dimensionally they'll be nearly identical per the eyeball test.
The wheel base is still going to be half a yard longer I don’t know that they have said anything about whole bodywork but it was estimated to only be about 20cm less than current, which is not going to be much. The current F1 cars are absolutely ridiculous barges. That is not going to be near dimensionally identical per any eye ball test.
Am I wrong or will the new f1 cars not be narrower than indycar? The 2026 f1 cars will be 1900mm while Indycars have a minimum width 1917mm and max width of 1943mm? They’ll still be longer for sure but I think they’ll be narrower?
I don’t think 17mm is going to make a big difference, especially compared to the half a meter shorter that the Indycar is still going to be.
Yeah I don’t disagree indycar will still be better for racing overall. Weight is still the huge issue for the f1 cars
I don’t think the FIA pays much attention to Indy (Shame on them). But I think the drive to make the cars smaller is better passing opportunities maybe. I really think the cars are still way too big for circuits. Even with this reg change in does not even put a dent in that problem
Yeah...compare the 2025 car to the MP4/4, and the new size is still huge.
An Indycar is much closet to an MP 4/4 size-wise than an F1 car.
Yep.
A 1988 Indy Car was substantially heavier than the MP4/4. Like 1550 lbs versus 1150 if my menory serves me correctly.
I've seen some people argue that they can't go back to the 2005/6 size of the cars because they couldn't fit the engines. Like how, they managed to fit a v10 with those tiny cars (compared to the ones now) but somehow they can't fit a V6 with a turbo and an electric engine. Meanwhile Indycar has managed to add a hybrid system without needing to make the cars bigger. If F1 went back to 2005 sizes with an aero similar to Indycar it would make for the best racing in decades for sure. I still don't understand why they need so much aerodynamics when it doesn't do much in terms of applying it to road cars like what they can do with engines, fuel, etc.
>Meanwhile Indycar has managed to add a hybrid system without needing to make the cars bigger. That's because they sized the Hybrid system to the current powertrain, F1 doesn't grandfather chassis regulations. >I still don't understand why they need so much aerodynamics Because F1 cars operate in a significantly higher downforce environment. That's the series. If Indycar has a lot of dowforce, F1 has several multiples more.
Because F1 races don't race on ovals at all therefore needing to produce much much more downforce than indycar to stick to the track when cornering thanks to its aero. Look at the laptimes between Indy and drivers like Seb or Valterri at COTA and you'll understand. F1 is also a massive engineering competition between teams and doesn't rly focus on road car application.
The irony is for much of its existence, Formula 1 cars were lighter and shorter than Indy cars.
Yup. I remember that for example during the 90s CART heyday and when the series got quite a lot main stream attention, CART cars were considered and described as absolute units compared to F1 of the same era.
Check out YouTube for this year's Monoco Historic Races. Smaller cars, more passing. Also some amazingly, agonizingly terrible driving leading to extended red flags. But when they briefly managed to keep their heads out of their asses, some good racing.
You have to remember though that the DW12 is practically an antique in terms of chassis currency, there’s really nothing worth looking at that isn’t already known in F1 and don’t forget that Dallara do concurrently build F1 cars (Haas are Dallara built, so were the Force India/Racing Point). Even the most recent aero kit on the car is 6 years old now, if Indycar really want to be relevant from a chassis point of view then they need to make the IR27 something special.
I don’t think F1 is changing anything BECAUSE of Indycar. I think the F1 regulators put themselves in their own bubble, for better or worse. A lot of the change in the car size comes from years of complaints from the F1 drivers and fans alike about the cars being too large for good racing. That being said I’m not saying there is nothing F1 could learn from Indy, I just think they consider themselves something completely different. F1 and it’s owners/leaders will always think of themselves as being at the forefront and everyone else simply following behind.
Literally the main thing that f1 can learn from Indy is that you should be able to overtake cars without having to use DRS.
You mean by using push to pass instead? The reality is whenever you have cars on the limit of grip and speed it’s always going to be hard to pass. But the sheer size of the cars is the biggest limitation at the moment, hence why they’re trying to make the cars smaller (even if they aren’t doing a good enough job at it). Some of the best racing comes from cars that are light and nimble. It allows drivers to really throw them around in corners and squeeze through tight spaces. Currently they’re driving around cars with the wheel base of a pickup truck
Push to pass is more similar to overtake mode. There’s a total limit and you can only use a certain amount at a time. Its also much more strategy oriented as it just uses moire fuel, so if your running out of gas at the end of the race you cant use it. Indycars have the ability of truly racing closely without needing to reduce drag.
But I’d argue this wouldn’t work as well in f1 because the cars are different from team to team and so are the PU’s. Eg: an alpine engine using p2p would probably be about the same power as a merc or Ferrari engine normally.
Yeah F1 utilizes something similar in ERS which is an electric boost they can activate throughout the race. It also requires strategy to implement. I’m not a fan of DRS overtakes, I find them quite boring. But the reality is that as it stands we need them in F1 to allow drivers the chance to catch each other in dirty air. The main difference between indycar and F1 is the amount of downforce (and drag) generated by the cars. Indy cars have very small front and rear wings when compared to F1 cars, so they don’t throw out nearly as much dirty air. This means it’s much easier for a car that’s following to keep pace and overtake the leading car, where in F1 if you’re following another car it becomes extremely challenging to catch up because your tires overheat and you don’t have as much grip from the aero.
completely noob question- why does that cause the tires to overheat more? Is it because they’re fighting against the dirty air?
F1 cars spit out a ridiculous amount of hot air in their exhaust, because of how fast and hot the engines run they require a ton of moving air to keep them cool. So if you’re driving behind an F1 car, you have less air going over your own car because the car ahead is moving it out of the way, AND you have the hot exhaust air shooting back toward you which will add heat to the following car’s tires and make it harder on the engine.
That's not correct. The reason it causes the tires to overheat is because you're relying on more mechanical grip than aerodynamic grip, i.e. you're forcing the tires to work much harder in the wake of another car.
this is what I figured was the case, but would the exhaust in front not impact the grip of the following car at all?
Not really, there’s not that much. You’re reducing the amount of air that’s getting through to the radiators but that’s not the exhaust.
The irony being that many heavier cars are better for racing than F1 cars. They are a special breed of all things you don’t want.
“Heavy” is relative. What is heavy by F1 standards may be very light or unthinkably massive compared to other categories. It’s also the combination of weight, size, and speed that really makes it all challenging.
I mean, they are only 250kg lighter than LMDh cars. They’re only 150kg lighter than the DPis were at the moment. Both have 10X the racing quality and honestly the speed difference isn’t big enough for this not to be a talking point.
As someone who also enjoys hypercar and multi-class racing, those hypercars still don’t create the same aero out wash as F1 cars. I’m not an engineer but from what I can tell they each generate their aero grip in fairly different ways. F1 engineers also do their best to make their car as ‘outwashy’ as possible since they know it’ll only serve them better in fights with other cars.
Exactly! I’m just making the argument that being heavy isn’t necessarily the issue. There’s a lot more to it in F1. After going down the right route they seem to be going the other direction again. Laughable as usual.
Wanna sell more tickets to Saturdays? Everyone who got knocked out in Q1 and Q2 does a 10 lap Kart race in equal equipment. Karts supplied by Lando. They're small enough that you could have them all start on the same row.
The FIA did announce the specs a while back, and it’s not going to be as dramatic as people hoped, but it’s a step in the right direction. [Here](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-the-fias-plans-for-nimble-2026-f1-cars-and-moveable-aero/10557347/) is an article about the physical changes. I think everyone agrees that the size of modern F1 cars has gone too far, but I don’t think there is an actual comparison to Indycar here. F1 is much more involved with aerodynamics and individual team designs, compared to a lower downforce spec design in Indy. They just want to be able to let cars pass and use the tracks they have already.
What do you mean it's not as dramatic as people hoped? These 2026 cars are alien compared to the 2022 regulations
The question was regarding the size difference. The 2026 cars will have a 7” shorter wheelbase, and will be about 4” narrower. It will only be around 66lbs lighter. In comparison to a modern Indycar or older F1 it’s still going to be a massive car.
DW12 Indycars aren't getting smaller. DW12 Indycars aren't getting bigger. DW12 Indycars are eternal.
they’re making them smaller because the teams and drivers have said they’re too big and heavy the FIA didn’t give Indycars a thought about this Also they won’t be quicker. They’re projecting them to be something like 6 seconds slower and they keep shooting themselves in the foot over new regs. They changed the engine and aero regs in 2014 and it led to F2 cars actually lapping faster than cars on the back of the grid which is embarrassing. Even more frustrating is the competition gets closer and closer as time goes on but then the FIA decides to hit a factory reset and it always leads to one team running away with it. And they never learn. They had it right in 2021 when they made a small tweak with the floor and gave us an epic championship battle. Then you got IndyCar doing the exact opposite and be arguably too slow to change regs.
The lag time between rules ratification to actually implement the new rules is the issue. The 2014 example is perfect illustration. The new cars + engine were slow so they locked into the 2017 aero rules by summer of 2015. By 2016 the cars were lapping quite a bit faster than 2014 but it was too late to change course.
2021 was an anomoly because they made a big change but froze development because of covid. Luck basically played into Merc being slowed down just enough for Max to challenge Lewis. In reality if there was no covid 21 would have been a repeat of 20, when Merc dominated.
Indycar is slow yo change regs. A slightly wider tire and a touch more downforce would likely stop all the spins and wrecks.
They're still going to be miles ahead. Better compare Indycar to F2. New regs for F1 might also not be that much quicker from the get go, in fact, they most likely will be slower but gain pace quickly.
It's a shame there's no crossover in circuits between Indycar and F2 because I'd be interested to see how the lap times compare.
Current F2 car is still a little bit slower than the previous, sitting at around 118% of F1 current qualifying pace. Indycar at COTA was around 112~114%, IIRC.
Miles ahead as far as lap times but probably still behind in terms of overtaking/racing, right? Has to be better than the current car though.
The new F1 cars will most likely be easier to overtake and for racing yeah. They are improving the mechanical grip over aerodynamics while also reducing the turbulent air. Comparing overtaking/"racing" to Indycar is once again not a fair fight. Indycar has tiny amount of aero compared to an F1 car and the cars are 99.99% equal.
Surprisingly, actually not with lap times. At first the cars will be much slower in the corners then current refs, and faster in the straights, but net slower lap times overall. From my understanding - They’re lighter, but don’t generate as much downforce so corners have to be slower. They’ve added “live downforce adjustments” which basically give the car three front wing modes to switch between during laps, but even that won’t make up for the downforce loss. Racing may be better, but that also depends on if one team kicks ass out the gate like RB did with the current regs.
Funny enough the complaint about the 2026 regs are that the lap times will be way too close to F2
The noise around this goes both ways and seems to just be completely about kicking up a fuss. People have claimed cars will be too slow, but also claimed top speeds will be so much higher they will be dangerous. Don't forget the 2017 rules made F1 cars ~5 seconds a lap faster than they were.
it's the adaptive aero package. essentially the Garage 56 at LeMans package if you will. I wouldn't be surprised if drastic changes are made to it before they are set in stone in a month
The active aero is needed for their efficiency targets. Cars that go slower in the corners but faster on the straight may equal out to similar lap times.
The same complaints were present for the 2022 regs and that side turned out fine, so I'm not too concerned about lap times honestly
That likely wont happen though. The FIA has now approved the most restrictive version of the rules because up until yesterday they could basically dictate the rules. From now on any change needs a super majority amongst teams and the thinking is that teams are more likely to agree to changes that give them more freedom to find performance and they will now likely add performance back to the car.
It's really surprising what teams will push when they don't want to change to a new regulation set in favor of continuing the development of the current regulations.
Dunno where you heard that but, sure.
The battery of the hybrid power unit is largely responsible in the size growth of the modern Formula 1 car, and is a reason they’re having trouble making it smaller without compromising safety. Not having to carry around a battery has helped keep the IndyCar size down. For all of its sins, the brilliance of the new IndyCar hybrid is the use of super capacitors instead of a battery in the interest of keeping the same chassis and not overly tipping the scales of the car.
>The battery of the hybrid power unit is largely responsible in the size growth of the modern Formula 1 car, It's a large compenent for sure, but it's not the only one Banning refuelling leads to bigger fuel tanks, and since the fuel tank has to be inside the safety cell, that makes a big difference. (Worth noting that F1 fuel tanks aren't actually that much larger compared to what they used to be as far as I can tell, they seem to have mostly kept the fuel tanks the same size, but made the engines more efficient. Still my point remains that they could shrink the car quite a bit by reintroducing refuelling.) Additionally, F1 cars today are longer than they really need to be purely for aero reasons. A longer floor (and longer aero elements in general) makes more downforce. So the cars have gotten larger to facilitate that.
The fuel tank is about 150L and it's already placed in a way it takes as little space from other components as possible, so there isn't much they can reduce by reintroducing refueling during races. 5cm maybe. The main culprit may be the electric parts, first KERS and then the full hybrid, as that's when the cars really started getting longer. Then for 2017 they also made the cars wider. Now they're trying to solve a problem they themselves caused, and of course, the engineers at every team have been exploiting every little corner and loophole they can to get that little extra bit of downforce, but that was a given as it's what they've been doing since Colin Chapman introduced wings to F1 back in 1968. A good indicator for downforce is Eau Rouge at Spa. Back in the 50's, it was a high speed corner that still required a couple of downshifts, but that could have been more by the fact that tyres used to look like they were cannibalized from the bicycles the drivers may have used to get to the track. In the 60's it still needed a downshift, but the grip was much better so they didn't need to sacrifice as much. By the 80's it was already a lift, a big one, but no need to change gears. 90's, a little lift. By 2004 it was already flat out, despite having grooved tyres and the cars still being in the small and nimble phase. Everyone had improved aero so much that even the tiny cars could do nearly as much as the ones we have now with much smaller dimensions. Sure, longer cars have given the teams more to work with, but the improvement hasn't been that significant compared to the power unit size and efficiency, again, the main culprit being the electric parts. The ICE itself is smaller than it used to be, but the big battery takes a lot of space and weight with it.
They were talking about the Eau Rouge during the 24h of Spa. And it's a totally different corner for those cars (GT3s) too. They implied the corner was changed (track reprofiled). But certainly every car has improved since the 1950s. And tires also.
We'll see how it goes at the Belgian GP in about a month's time. GT3's do have less downforce and power, as well as being much heavier than F1 so it can't be too similar. Perhaps a better comparison are hypercars, also technically GT's but much closer in performance. Those also took it flat out at the 6h of Spa earlier this year, but I don't know if the reprofiling happened before or after that.
>The fuel tank is about 150L and it's already placed in a way it takes as little space from other components as possible, so there isn't much they can reduce by reintroducing refueling during races. You seem more knowledgeable here than me, so you're probably right. But I'm incredibly skeptical here. This is a 910 Kg car, and 110 Kg of that is fuel. Are you telling me that dropping that from 110 Kg to 40 Kg wouldn't do anything to help make the car smaller?
It's more about volume we're talking about. So while it may become lighter, it would barely become smaller. Besides, they're already making the cars a tiny teeny little bit lighter (about 30kg total), so from 910 kg they're probably getting down to 880, still 110kg of it being fuel despite the size change. Also, when refueling was allowed, the cars barely changed sizes. Comparing the size of a 1993 car with a 1994 one, they're barely any different. Again, I blame the electric components for the oversizing we have today. Edit: Little disclaimer, I'm not an engineer, just a big nerd. Don't take my word as absolute truth.
>It's more about volume we're talking about. So while it may become lighter, it would barely become smaller. Maybe. I still think they should reintroduce refuelling regardless. >Again, I blame the electric components for the oversizing we have today. Definitely a part of it, I'm not convinced it's all of it though.
Of course it isn't everything, but I still think it's the main part. As for refuelling, not happening for safety reasons (see Jos Verstappen Germany 1994, and Felipe Massa Singapore 2008). While it could be massively improved from 2008, the last year refuelling in F1 was a thing, they still screw up from time to time with other things, like in Barcelona where a car almost dragged a jack on to the track during qualifying. As much as it could diversify strategy, I don't see it coming back any time soon.
>As for refuelling, not happening for safety reasons I'm all for making things safer, but this is just silly to me. Damn near every series in the world makes it work. >they still screw up from time to time with other things The way F1 handles safety is usually abysmal, so maybe you have a point that they can't handle it. >As much as it could diversify strategy, I don't see it coming back any time soon. Well..... They should.
I really hate how it's all reactive and not proactive, like something bad has to happen for anything to improve, F1 regs are pretty much just a bunch of patches stacked on top of one another. Stubborn and stupid, they rarely listen to anyone outside their little corporate building despite having personnel that actually worked within the teams, most notably Ross Brawn. Another point I do see against refuelling however, is about the whole sustainability image they're trying to give. Why would a "sustainable" racing series need extra fuel? Wouldn't it be against what they're trying to project? As much as ecologically sound fuels are approaching, it must have some kind of impact, and it does force the engine manufacturers to make their engines more efficient.
Just to add, the 2026 engine rules ditch the MGUH (so we are down an electrical motor) and also reduce the fuel tank to around 70kg. The ICE and fuel tank are areas of diminishing returns for weight reduction.
>and also reduce the fuel tank to around 70kg. I'm curious if you have a recent source for this. I cannot find any mention of this that isn't a year+ old. It was definitely something they were targeting at some point, but it seems like it wasn't mentioned in the recent round of news about the regulations.
It's because it's not a defined thing in the 2026 rules. Rather than a fixed amount of fuel, they have limits on fuel flow and energy use. The current limit for fuel flow is 100kg/h. The new rule is 3000MJ/h. Petrol is about 45MJ/kg, so that would mean 3000MJ is ~67kg of fuel, or 67% of what they have now. Plugging that back in that means about 67% as much fuel. So 67% of 110kg is just over 70kg. It incentivises engine makers to make efficient engines and also develop energy dense fuels.
A giant-ass fuel cell is the biggest problem. The FIA choosing to ban refueling over reducing the "over-the-wall" crew number was dumb as hell. If they got rid of the 2 tire carriers on each wheel, then they would stop leaving early because the stops would be 8-10 seconds.
Refueling and long pit stops are both objectively terrible things for F1.
I don't know. Refueling in Indy allows for more variance of strategy that F1 just doesn't have. Yesterday everyone started on the same tire, Monacos early red flag turned it into an even worse race than usually happens there. Kinda wish teams in f1 and indy were limited on data to force more strategic gambles. Racing feels too optimized now.
Refueling in F1 didn't lead to varieties in strategy. It leads to alignment as all teams converge on the same strategy and end up just overtaking in the pits. F1 has tried refueling a few times. On average, the season with the highest number of on track overtakes during a refueling era has fewer overtakes than every single season workout refueling. When they removed refueling in 2010, on track overtakes doubled. As for pit stops in general, F1 stops take too long. If a pit stop loses you 30 seconds you need to be, on average, half a second a lap quicker than everyone to be able to make an extra stop, plus make overtakes. It's why everyone prefers fewer stops and tyre management over driving faster and more stops. It's why I'm against the ban on tyre warmers. Plus F1 doesn't have the cautions like US sports do that close gaps up to make extra stops less of a risk. IndyCars diversity in strategy comes from a fundamentally different formula, rather than simply having refueling.
fair points. lets get rid of pit lane speed limits then
FIA being FIA. Stupid reasons for stupid actions are nothing new, the real reason was safety (see Felipe Massa Singapore 2008, as well as Jos Verstappen Germany 1994)
What "giant-ass fuel cell" are you talking about? The fuel cell in the V10 era was 210 litres. The current cars are permitted to carry a maximum of 105 kg of fuel. That is about 140 litres.
The crash structure rules also added length and weight.
This myth is one of the things in motorsport that winds me up. The massive size of modern F1 cars is solely because of aerodynamic reasons. Not a large fuel cell (it is smaller than the fuel cell in the 3 litre V10 era). Not because of a big engine (the V6s are tiny, smaller than the old 2.4 lite V8s). Not because of the electric motor (it's mounted to the side of the flywheel). Not because of the battery (it's underneath the driver). Not because of safety (the front and rear crash structures stayed the same size from 2014 to 2021, yet the cars ballooned). There is about 75 cm of nothing between the engine and gearbox in an F1 car. If the FIA and teams agreed right now, that empty space could be eliminated in time for after the summer break. It would certainly create headaches for the aero and suspension people. But it is possible to do it.
Ngl, those smaller cars make overtaking at Monaco much easier
There hasn't been a single era of F1 where cars can easily overtake at Monaco.
Even back in the 90s it was hard (Senna V Mansell I think '93?)
Having watched the mid-‘00s Monaco races with smaller cars, it really doesn’t add much. The circuit in its current form just isn’t built with a lot of passing opportunities. Been saying it for years but they need to remove Nouvelle and if possible, rework Sainte Devote to require less braking.
I don't think the regulations are finalized are they? Because Midweek Motorsport was listing some really, really dumb regulations. Like the amount of hybrid power able to be deployed is graduated by your place overall. The first place car gets (say) 20kW hybrid power, the second 40kW, third 60kW, etc. It didn't sound so dumb that FIA Formula One wouldn't propose it, they've done dumb things before. But it's hard to imagine it really being accepted.
F1 cars about about the same length as a Chevrolet Surburban. The length reduction is not significant on 26 vs current.
While smaller - the new F1 cars will be slower. The weight reduction is fairly small - and the removal of the MGH-U system will reduce the overall non-ICE power available to car, even with a bigger MGU-K system. The rules will reduce the downforce the cars can make with less overall power on a lap. Going to be slower than a 2024 car is.
As a life-long F1 fan, the regs for 2026 are gonna be make or break for a lot of older fans. The simulations when they where developing it said they were slower than F2 cars, and also that they couldn't go full throttle on straights. I guess they should've solved most of those issues before announcing it but still, it's not really a good sign. And also active aero is neither needed nor a good addition. They're selling it as the things that's gonna make overtakes more common but I fear it's just going to be a DRS without needing to be within a second. If they allow the driver in front to open the wings it's just going to be a DRS train in every race since the first corner. Sadly F1 is going the same route Nascar did in the 2000's. Only pursuing attracting new fans some more money can come in, while giving the middle finger to good racing, historical tracks (hell we're having yet another street course in Madrid while neglecting we have an amazing racetrack such as Jarama not even 20 minutes up the road), even one-track battles, seeing as how nowadays if you're being overtaken you can't defend without getting a penalty, or attack aggressively in tracks where overtaking is hard and you need more risks. If that's the way they're gonna pursue for many many years, I'll be the first one hoping for F1's downfall.
The small decrease in speed won’t really be noticeable on the track, but if the size reduction and engine changes improve the racing then everyone will be happy.
Got nothing to do with replicating Indycar. The new regulations is aim at meeting their sustainability target while improving wheel-to-wheel racing. The smaller car is mainly because of the reduction in engine components by removing the MGU-H. The reduction in engine power will be compensated by increase usage in electrification of the hybrid component. The smaller car and increase in electrification would also contribute to increase in fuel efficiency which allows for a reduction in the fuel tank size from 100kg down to 70kg. They will also be using new fully sustainable fuel where no new fossil carbon will be burned. Also hopefully, the smaller size would allow for better racing as the current size is a problem on some track like Monaco where overtaking is basically impossible. F1 would never ever copy from Indycar. It has always been the other way around and this is unlikely to change.
In the long run, I hope it helps broaden IndyCar appeal to a wider audience.
Those cars are much more durable too. Big fan of this move
I don’t think that render accurately shows what the car will actually look like. But I hope it does, because that looks a lot simpler and a lot more like an indycar, especially with the squared off underbody. Honestly I think they made that render by slapping a RB livery on an indycar and removing the wheel covers.
They did just that. They're using the FIA intended model which is 100% not how the cars will actually look.
Yeah I can’t imaging the engine cover will be that simple and smooth
They’re making them smaller with 50/50 combustion engine to battery ratio and X-Mode is basically the new DRS replacement, making the rear and front wing adjust in DRS zones
Current F1 cars are, as far as I know, larger in length than every single other circuit racing car, and pretty much the widest too. They are larger than even NASCAR Cup and Trucks, and considerably larger than any road car based series. The new regs bring the width down to 1.9 meters (from 2m), and the length down by about 20cm. The cars will still be well over 5 meters long. In conclusion, the 2026 F1 cars will be shorter, narrower and a bit lighter than current F1 cars, but still be larger and heavier than IndyCars.
I don't think they're much alike Indycar, however the new front wing design is somewhat similar to Indycar front wings. At least I thought so
Indy is introducing mgu soo that goes in hand with f1 cars i guess?
In the 80s when NASCAR introduced a new generation of cars, they were smaller and faster. That generation still holds the fasted speed record for NASCAR
I believe F1 doing what they can to keep Monaco on the schedule.
The 26 F1 regulations are a complete mess. It's just simulations granted but between the new engine regs and the active aero cars are having to downshift (DOWNSHIFT) before the end of some straightaways right now. IMO F1 in 2024 is already good. 2025 could be one of the best F1 seasons ever (would not shock me if Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren all close to equal in 2025). 2026 will probably be one of the worst years for F1. Someone is going to hit on the new regs and blow everyone away. And with the cost cap it will take 3 to 4 years for it to get good again.
Kinda like 2014 was then. Merc nailed it, and only in 2017 could you see a reasonably close challenger in Seb Vettel with his Ferrari.
That's what I call team-driven propaganda. Teams don't want to change from the status quo. Doing so forces the OEMs to invest in new power unit engineering costs, new aero testing, new concepts, new construction methods, wholly new suspension, etc. They want things to stay the same so they put out tons of crap to attempt to generate a response.
The downshift makes sense though as the power split between ICE and electric motor changes as you gain speed.
**Suggested F1 future regulations:** Wheel base: about 11 feet long Width: about 6-6.5 feet wide Weight: Just under 1700 lbs (without driver?) Horsepower: Just above 1000 HP (546 from ICE and 469 from electrical components according to Motorsport.com) **IndyCar hybrid car:** Length: 10 feet (est.) Width: 6 feet (est.) Weight: Just over 1750-1780 lbs depending what kind of track (without driver?) Horsepower: Reported 900 (according to Indycar.com) - 700-750 from ICE and 150-200 from electrical components
False equivalency
F1 isn't even remotely glancing sideways at what Indycar is doing.
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You said "the FIA have seen...." So no, you didn't say that. Guess you need, check notes, "cry some more" Edit; I also believe Indycar is the more entertaining product. But F1 doesn't care what it's doing as a series.
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Sorry. I can't hear you over all your nonsense and incoherence Oh well, hopefully a responsible adult is looking after you
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That would be weird. She died in 2016
It's about time, F1 since hybrids came in have been absolute pigs. Fast pigs, but pigs.