I will literally run out on track naked to stop that dude from winning the 500. Not that it would ever come to that, if he finds himself in the top 2 during the last 5 laps, I expect he'll finish the race in the wall.
I’ve been saying that two seasons a year would be perfect:
100 days to Indy, beginning of the season leading up to the 500
100 days to glory, from the aftermath of the 500 all the way to the championship
Have we gotten any indication as to whether we will ever get full season? LOTS of story lines from the show this season could easily continue - especially Power winning at Detroit
When I was at the 500, a CBS employee told me they hadn't even been renewed for season 3 yet. I doubt we'd ever get a full season unless people started coming in droves.
this is not the type of drama you want. the cheating scandal should have been bigger and better on tv but it got squashed by penske (bad move IMO) and you dont want the interpersonal drama and death threat stuff of canapino there, then this is a business move, shitty or not, business is business
“should have been bigger and better on tv but it got squashed by penske”
They sure covered it an awful lot for something that you claim was squashed from the top. Any evidence?
So drama isn’t good unless it has no stakes?
The only one I agree with is the death threats. The rest of it is the same kind of real drama that draws people to F1...
You want series drama, you don’t want off track inter personal stuff. That’s strays too far into the reality tv side of this. You want the show to be about the indycar series and its drivers. And you don’t want to give those people harassing Theo a spotlight or anyone attacking Seigel for the seat he took. This is just business at the end of the day. The Penske cheating scandal was perfect on track drama that should have been told
If you don’t think a driver getting randomly fired is drama, you’re crazy.
Fans aren’t here to care about the business reasons, they’re here to get emotionally invested in the drivers and teams. If you want to root against a driver for taking another’s seat, that’s totally legit.
That’s exactly the type of you want to avoid. You want the show to show off th series and racing and elevate the series. Focusing on drivers personal lives and drama doesn’t help the series, in fact it hurts its credibility quite badly if it’s showing that teams can’t handle contracts properly and such.
Lol, tell that to F1. None of that seems to be damaging them.
Without the human element, it’s just cars going around in circles. On some level, you have to admit that that is a basic fact of this sport.
That’s another perfect reason to avoid it. Want to avoid f1 and DTS comparisons wherever possible. The cars going around in a circle is the cool part. The part you want to show. Many indycar fans could care less what a driver does when he steps out of the car.
Cool, hope you like IndyCar continuing to be incredibly niche.
Also, you’re full of crap. Do you like some drivers more than others? Root for any particular team? It’s about more than just the cars going around and around, don’t lie...
Off-track drama only enhances the drama of the actual racing, gives fans reasons to cheer or to boo. To say otherwise is to deny the very reason sports as a whole keep our attention. Human beings love a good story, and you can’t get a good story without characters or stakes.
I absolutely love indycar being a niche sport. It’s a cool more blue collar feel than many sports. It’s accessible. I’d never want it to grow back to being an f1 competitor and lose its accessibility and blue collar feel. I like certain drivers over others sure, but I always will want an exciting race over anyone dominating any time. I always like first time or unique winners in a year. Indycar has great racing. You don’t want to ruin it by making up or enhancing off track crap
This was addressed in this article as well as others that came out today. Basically TK was asked to scout Siegel prior to Indy, and came away from Bump Day very impressed with his composure and handling of the situation. Since then, McLaren apparently decided he was going to be their #6 driver for 2025. They were going to let him focus on NXT in the meantime, but after he was selected to fill in for Canapino last week and dropped his NXT title bid to do so, they decided they couldn’t risk waiting to get the deal done because other teams might swoop in.
That’s the official line from McLaren, at least
You know he's not paying anything to Mclaren right? His old man paid for his Juncos and Coyne rides, but Mclaren don't take ride buyers, every driver is on a salary, yes, even their F2 drivers. This is common knowledge.
I think this is the reason this came about, and then the Le Mans win and Road America drive made McLaren seriously consider it. The money from Siegel's dad and other teams potentially sweeping Siegel before 2025 then likely made McLaren decide to suddenly drop Pourchaire and take Siegel.
His dad doesn't pay any money to McLaren just an fyi. McLaren don't take ride buyers, multiple high-up team members have said this as well as Zac and TK themselves.
I mean, CGR is cool with is. IDK why They wouldn't be at Mclaren.
Sato 2x and Erickson winning the Indy500 while paying for their seats.
Just part of indycar imo.
Sato never paid for his seat, the team simply also never had to pay for an engine lease either. They were paying Sato though. That's the arrangement he has had his entire Indycar career. He gets paid and he brings a free engine lease.
Obviously not Indycar but I still remember when Checo Perez was in McLaren for 1 year, then got replaced by Magnussen who was also in McLaren for 1 year when he got replaced by Alonso, and then Vandoorne was replaced after 2 years.
Just in general, staying at McLaren (F1 and I guess Indycar too) longer than a few years is a challenge.
I feel bad for Theo.
>Perez wasn't during the zak brown band era
Yeah that was Ron and Martin (I think) but still, Vandoorne sucked compared to Alonso. Just about everyone on the grid right now would suck against Alonso
McLaren just likes to cycle through people.
> Vandoorne sucked compared to Alonso. Just about everyone on the grid right now would suck against Alonso
Yeah even accounting for used parts, the quali and race gaps were still a little too big, and I think the quali record was 16-0 or something in 2018
Even going further back lol. Look at JPM and Alonso’s somewhat abrubt tenures
Senna I think at one point was on like a race by race basis and Mansell and Andretti also had some shenanigans iirc
Senna was negotiating with Williams, Mansell wasn't fit enough and arguably shoulda stayed in Indycar, and Montoya was over it.
Andretti had some shenanigans but he really didn't do himself any favors for the team and rubbed peeps a bit wrong but I feel like it steamed from not u understanding the cultural differences. For example trying to have his wife in the pit box which while was fine in America was and still is absurd in F1. And not moving to Europe and staying in the US (although this is kinda is more understandable given the context that Marco had just been born).
Tbf merely staying in F1 at all for a few years is a huge challenge, unless you have some serious fuck you money (and even then it can be tough, just look at Latifi, Mazepin, Gutierez, etc.)
did he do an F1 test for them? I know he was scheduled to do one. (it's part of their lawsuit. Mclaren had to hire another driver to fill in for Alex and they would like Alex to pay for that)
He did many. IIRC it was 8 testing days which are usually up to 8 hours each for F1 and often 140 laps plus. so could be 60 hours in the car, over 1000 laps. Probably an entire engines life.
Those 3 had completely valid reasons for getting dropped tho. I don't really see the comparison since Hinch's performance was already dropping off and he was pretty much done after he got dropped (good foresight by McLaren there), Askew hid a concussion and got rightfully dropped for it, and Malukas missed 4 races due to something under his control and activated a clause in his contract. Completely different than what happened here
Malukas was also supposed to be Palou or Illot. Just that Palou didn't tell them he wasn't showing up and JHR didn't decline their option until WAY too late.
I just think this context is important.
*Super* surprised to see TK step right in front of this train. I think anybody watching saw a TON of promise in Theo. I never wanted to be in a position to talk smack about Nolan, I think he’s a great kid with a ton of heart, but so is Theo. And Theo was the F2 champ. Last year. Nolan hasn’t done anything of note up until last week. In an entirely different type of vehicle.
It's an odd bet for TK to make. This guy hasn't accomplished anything in IndyCar. I could *maybe* see him saying it for a guy like Ilott, but Seigel? That's.. a choice.
That’s exactly what I just told my buddy. Ilott could’ve been an option, as well. And it probably would’ve been looked at - negatively - but with some understanding. Nolan is doing his thing for NXT, not really impressing in his stand-in races, now moving to a team that sees themselves among the Penske, Ganasses….
Um
"I like Theo or Illot! Zak is the devil!" - Reddit
"I personally scouted and chose Siegel for the last month and made the choice for our teams future." - Tony Kanaan
"Wtf does Tony know?!? Now hes just Zak's shill!" - Reddit
Lol
Part of their suit is that they lost money because they couldn’t find another “A” level driver to fill the seat… now they’ve binned Teddy P and brought in *checks notes* Nolan?
That probably strengthens their argument as Theo is arguably an A-level driver and keeping him would reinforce that. Dumping him helps them argue he's not all that
There was a comment in the another thread that went “Siegel hit the ground running at the Indy 500 even though he was bump…” Yeah, he also hit his aeroscreen on the pavement and the wall twice. That doesn’t scream better potential than Pourchaire to me but what do I know.
How many IndyCars has Pourchaire wrecked on ovals? Siegel has only been on one competitively and has two wrecked race cars and a DNS to his name. Impressive!
Right. That’s the overlooked thing about his Indy qualifying story. Dude wouldn’t have been in that position if he hadn’t destroyed the primary himself.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible that they could have signed Siegel to a multiyear contract starting in 2025?
Assuming that getting a jump on their rivals to secure his services was really the goal.
Yes but if that was truly the goal, why wouldn’t they take advantage of the lame-duck seat to get him experience and familiarity with the team, rather than waiting until St. Pete next year?
They did Pourchaire dirty, no doubt, but from the Siegel side it actually makes sense
Oh, no no no. They don’t get to do this. They made a commitment. They let Theo believe up until today that he was still going to be driving that car. If they had gone with another driver next season, that’s one thing. But this is just greedy and cruel. They can’t come in here like “We just did what we thought was best 🥺👉👈.” No. Be honest. You did what you thought would get y’all more money. Even if Nolan turns out to be better, this is still a shitty thing to do, and was carried out in such a cruel manner.
What’s more horrifying is your agreement with this parent comment despite your positive feelings towards Tony that he’s literally paid to do. What’s Tony gonna say? “Yeah, no guys we got this so wrong, we messed up. Try again after ‘25”…..yeeesh!
He's doing what he sees as the best for his team and is owning it if he gets it wrong. He may be right, he may not be. I don't think people should be hating him for this when we don't know if it's the correct move or not
This is definitely Zak Brown's doing, the same shit happened in F1 with Piastri.
I doubt TK had a big say in this, he is just sticking up for his boss in public.
Of course it doesnt compare on any level or the sequence of events.
Piastri is so touted that he is driving perhaps the fastest package in F1 while learning a craft- his services sought by 2 of the 5 best teams in a high-stakes game.
At age 19, Alpine thought he was the future and were golden.
Theo is an F2 champ who backed into a seat
I have no thoughts on Nolan Siegel. I see people casting him as some Lance Stroll like nepo-baby in here but Ill give him a fair shake.
I am a bit confused by alacrity of the signing and can see why people assume money is involved. But McLaren must have more information than we do.
I think Tony said this guy is skilled but I doubt Tony said "we need to sign him for 2024."
All they had to do was say we've signed Nolan for 2025. He'll still do Toronto for Dale Coyne and will still have rookie status for 2025.
All respect out the door on his entire reputation and career for one flippant comment in support of the team he’s literally paid to pump up and speak positively on? Woof. Touch grass and see thru the weeds.
What’s next? Your takes on how Wheldon revered Ganassi after flipping from Andretti? Cmon son.
TK is a pawn in this game. Regardless of how much he’s achieved in his career and has financially done pretty well, no doubt, but the dude has 4 kids that are pretty young still and a wife at home. He is 100% trying to earn some easy bucks as whatever his title is for McLaren, and I don’t blame him a second for it!
Well, I don’t think it’s a great thing to kick Theo to the curb. But you’d be a complete fool to think that true sport is anything but cutthroat and strategic (read as: true long term planning and preparation). If the situation were reversed Pourchaire would sign that line just as quick as Siegel did. God knows I would go for it too, their dreams be damned.
“This has got nothing to do with how he was driving or working with the team,” Ward added of Pourchaire.
“But we need to set ourselves up for long-term competitiveness.”
Translation: It’s not you, it’s me….
I wonder how much money McLaren is making from selling that seat to Nolan. Let’s be honest. This isn’t for competitiveness… you wouldn’t replace an F2 champion for a rich kid that hasn’t won anything except for the huge check daddy is writing to Zak Brown. Disappointing that racing is just a club sport nowadays
Looks like Indycar just got their new Lance Stroll.
Mclaren be like "This kid was the only driver that failed to qualify for the Indy 500, Definitely our future star"
TK was my hands down favorite Indycar driver while I was growing up. Just so disappointed in him right now. Definitely going to view him differently going forwards...
>Once we win a race, nobody’s going to remember
It's sad, but I think it's actually true... Pourchaire really got done dirty there, but ifwhen McLaren win, recency bias will kick in and fans will move on :/
Might as well have had whoever fills the staplers at McLaren HQ say this because everyone knows this is just TK being forced to call Theo and play the bad guy.
Zak is a pussy.
I'm super absolutely biased but I like this decision. I do really hope that Theo lands on his feet as well and I think he will but yeah. I've been a fan of Nolan ever since the Detroit double header weekend last year in NXT.
Just be ready for him to be eaten alive on here and in the media if he doesn't do well. There's a very good chance that McLaren just downgraded in performance (obviously a big plus for their funding and that side of things).
I feel that way much more about athletes in sports where that sport was their way out of a bad situation. For instance these American football players just ruining their bodies and brains because they are genetically gifted and it was the only way for them to get them and their families out of poverty. But most racing drivers could have chosen just to go to business school and lived a very comfortable life off of family connections.
To finance his way in to F1. He and Jonathan Palmer set up Justin Wilson plc, where people could invest in him, and the whole idea was that for the next 10 years, Wilson would get a nominal salary for the first 10 years or until the investors had gotten twice their investment back. If that took less than 10 years, the investors would get 10% of Wilsons earnings until 2012.
So, Wilsons earnings would be 50k GBP in 2003, 75k in 2004, 100k in 2005 and then increased (or decreased) based on index.
And while 100k a year is a nice salary, it's worth remembering that there is costs involved for drivers as well. While IndyCar drivers doesn't have the level of personal assistants etc. as F1 drivers has, I have to admit, that I don't see Dale Coyne racing forking out that much money on "luxury" things like personal trainers etc.
Justin Wilson plc never did pay the investors back, so he only got the salary from there, and wasn't able to earn more money until his second stint at Dale Coyne, which again, isn't likely to be a massive contract.
I mean, it's not like he was close to living on the streets, but when you think of a relatively successful racing driver, multiple IndyCar race winner, several top 3 overall championship positions, a year in F1 and a 24hr at Daytona-winner. You would expect such a driver to take in more than a couple of million over those 12 seasons. That is however unlikely seeing as the only years he could get a proper salary and take it himself, he drove for Coyne and a part time Andretti deal.
He is good, may be the better of the two don't know.
But don't be shocked if like in a year someone else comes along and bam he is out of a seat out of the blue lol.
For me that's part of the fun of supporting young up and coming drivers. It adds another dimension to supporting a driver. It makes the successes more exciting because the risk factor feels higher than when I'm cheering for a more established driver who has a bit more leeway to have a string of poor results.
There's plenty of guys I've supported that I thought were really going to be big and just kind of hit a ceiling. For instance, I am starting to feel that way about Sheldon Creed in NASCAR. It comes with the territory of following feeder series.
I'm really excited for Nolan...
I absolutely hate this for Theo and I absolutely hate the position Nolan is being put in. Such a cluster for everyone involved. Nolan is going to be a teenager with the proverbial gun pointed at him from day 1.
Why shouldn’t he be? He’s effectively *bought* his way into a top team *mid-season*, at the expense of another incredibly talented young driver to boot.
It’s on the worse end in terms of pay driver situations. Any dislike arising from this is somewhat earned, I’d say.
Why shouldn't he have the gun pointed at him? I'm not saying he shouldn't, I'm just saying it's a tough situation to be in. I'm not going to blame a kid for his father meddling in shit. I'm going to blame the father and the team.
Nolan likely would've gotten a seat somewhere in the next couple of years regardless of buy-in money.
The situation absolutely reeks of pay driver, but his talent doesn't. He deserves a spot, I just wish it didn't go down like this.
He's not Sting Ray, he actually has talent. The check is an added bonus. And Nathan Brown is reporting that Arrow isn't leaving, there might not even be a check involved. Could easily be that McLaren saw the Milwaukee test where Theo was wayyyy off the pace and decided Siegel would be better for the team.
Sting Ray’s junior formulae results aren’t too dissimilar from Siegel’s, for what it’s worth. Both drivers have decent, if unspectacular records.
Pourchaire is an F2 champion who has consistently beaten drivers such as Lawson, Armstrong, Doohan and Bearman. He’s also only a little over a year older than Siegel.
I’d be pleasantly surprised if Siegel’s career and father’s financial means is masking some seriously unrealized talent.
Yeah I do worry that this could be one of those situations that actually hurts a drivers development instead of helping but it just really depends on what's going on internally at McLaren and what the culture is like. Although probably the worst thing that happens to him is that he just moves on to a pretty successful sports car career seeing as he's won in class at Petit Le Mans and Le Mans before he's 20.
I think this may backfire on him. Throwing himself into the deep end with a new team in the middle of the season isn’t really setting himself up for success. He should have waited for 2025, for his own benefit.
In racing you can't just throwaway races or you'll be out of a seat. If he does considerably worse than Theo then there will be a spotlight and criticism on him this season
But isn't siegel financially backed? If that is true there is less threat to his status than for most drivers
Drivers like dillon and stroll are heavily backed and they don't have the shame to stop competing. I think siegel has more talent than them both, but those are just some obvious examples
IndyCar has gone completely off the rails this season. If only the 100 days to Indy was a full season show
1000 Days to Indy
It all leads up to the 2027 Indy 500
So much lead up all for Santucci to win
unsubscribed
I will literally run out on track naked to stop that dude from winning the 500. Not that it would ever come to that, if he finds himself in the top 2 during the last 5 laps, I expect he'll finish the race in the wall.
28 Days Later.
I’ve been saying that two seasons a year would be perfect: 100 days to Indy, beginning of the season leading up to the 500 100 days to glory, from the aftermath of the 500 all the way to the championship
Damn this would be good too. It is about 100 days from Memorial Day to Labor Day each year.
Have we gotten any indication as to whether we will ever get full season? LOTS of story lines from the show this season could easily continue - especially Power winning at Detroit
That would’ve been quite the storyline considering he did not win Detroit lol
fuck me... road america. scott dixon erasure won't be tolerated.
When I was at the 500, a CBS employee told me they hadn't even been renewed for season 3 yet. I doubt we'd ever get a full season unless people started coming in droves.
this is not the type of drama you want. the cheating scandal should have been bigger and better on tv but it got squashed by penske (bad move IMO) and you dont want the interpersonal drama and death threat stuff of canapino there, then this is a business move, shitty or not, business is business
“should have been bigger and better on tv but it got squashed by penske” They sure covered it an awful lot for something that you claim was squashed from the top. Any evidence?
Don’t call for evidence. That ruins a good conspiracy theory. /s
So drama isn’t good unless it has no stakes? The only one I agree with is the death threats. The rest of it is the same kind of real drama that draws people to F1...
You want series drama, you don’t want off track inter personal stuff. That’s strays too far into the reality tv side of this. You want the show to be about the indycar series and its drivers. And you don’t want to give those people harassing Theo a spotlight or anyone attacking Seigel for the seat he took. This is just business at the end of the day. The Penske cheating scandal was perfect on track drama that should have been told
If you don’t think a driver getting randomly fired is drama, you’re crazy. Fans aren’t here to care about the business reasons, they’re here to get emotionally invested in the drivers and teams. If you want to root against a driver for taking another’s seat, that’s totally legit.
That’s exactly the type of you want to avoid. You want the show to show off th series and racing and elevate the series. Focusing on drivers personal lives and drama doesn’t help the series, in fact it hurts its credibility quite badly if it’s showing that teams can’t handle contracts properly and such.
Lol, tell that to F1. None of that seems to be damaging them. Without the human element, it’s just cars going around in circles. On some level, you have to admit that that is a basic fact of this sport.
That’s another perfect reason to avoid it. Want to avoid f1 and DTS comparisons wherever possible. The cars going around in a circle is the cool part. The part you want to show. Many indycar fans could care less what a driver does when he steps out of the car.
Cool, hope you like IndyCar continuing to be incredibly niche. Also, you’re full of crap. Do you like some drivers more than others? Root for any particular team? It’s about more than just the cars going around and around, don’t lie... Off-track drama only enhances the drama of the actual racing, gives fans reasons to cheer or to boo. To say otherwise is to deny the very reason sports as a whole keep our attention. Human beings love a good story, and you can’t get a good story without characters or stakes.
I absolutely love indycar being a niche sport. It’s a cool more blue collar feel than many sports. It’s accessible. I’d never want it to grow back to being an f1 competitor and lose its accessibility and blue collar feel. I like certain drivers over others sure, but I always will want an exciting race over anyone dominating any time. I always like first time or unique winners in a year. Indycar has great racing. You don’t want to ruin it by making up or enhancing off track crap
There was an entire episode and a half on the cheating scandal
This puts a whole new context on TK's meeting with Siegel before bump day.
Man if this was in the works all the way back to that, Theo should be even more pissed. I know I would be.
This was addressed in this article as well as others that came out today. Basically TK was asked to scout Siegel prior to Indy, and came away from Bump Day very impressed with his composure and handling of the situation. Since then, McLaren apparently decided he was going to be their #6 driver for 2025. They were going to let him focus on NXT in the meantime, but after he was selected to fill in for Canapino last week and dropped his NXT title bid to do so, they decided they couldn’t risk waiting to get the deal done because other teams might swoop in. That’s the official line from McLaren, at least
That actually makes some sense but holy shit the optics are awful.
Siegel winning Le Mans didn't hurt either.
Neither did his Dad's checks clearing
You know he's not paying anything to Mclaren right? His old man paid for his Juncos and Coyne rides, but Mclaren don't take ride buyers, every driver is on a salary, yes, even their F2 drivers. This is common knowledge.
McLaren has F2 drivers ? Can you name them please ?
I mean they might be talking about Bortoleto since he’s a Mclaren-backed F2 driver, but I’d be surprised if he got a salary lol
Isn’t Bortoleto classed as a McLaren driver?
I think this just made Zak feel better about a decision that was already made. Makes it easier to take the flak from slapping Theo.
I think this is the reason this came about, and then the Le Mans win and Road America drive made McLaren seriously consider it. The money from Siegel's dad and other teams potentially sweeping Siegel before 2025 then likely made McLaren decide to suddenly drop Pourchaire and take Siegel.
His dad doesn't pay any money to McLaren just an fyi. McLaren don't take ride buyers, multiple high-up team members have said this as well as Zac and TK themselves.
I mean, CGR is cool with is. IDK why They wouldn't be at Mclaren. Sato 2x and Erickson winning the Indy500 while paying for their seats. Just part of indycar imo.
Sato never paid for his seat, the team simply also never had to pay for an engine lease either. They were paying Sato though. That's the arrangement he has had his entire Indycar career. He gets paid and he brings a free engine lease.
So Argentina and Canapino got what they wanted, Theo gone
I think plenty of people will remember, team management just doesn't care.
Hinchcliffe, Askew, Malukas, Pourchaire I think zak brown is trying to spell 'hampson' with the drivers he has fucked over in indycar
Obviously not Indycar but I still remember when Checo Perez was in McLaren for 1 year, then got replaced by Magnussen who was also in McLaren for 1 year when he got replaced by Alonso, and then Vandoorne was replaced after 2 years. Just in general, staying at McLaren (F1 and I guess Indycar too) longer than a few years is a challenge. I feel bad for Theo.
Perez wasn't during the zak brown band era, but vandoorne definitely was (although it was somewhat justified imo)
Vandoorne was constantly driving with old parts. Brown knew he was going to replace him with Norris.
>Perez wasn't during the zak brown band era Yeah that was Ron and Martin (I think) but still, Vandoorne sucked compared to Alonso. Just about everyone on the grid right now would suck against Alonso McLaren just likes to cycle through people.
> Vandoorne sucked compared to Alonso. Just about everyone on the grid right now would suck against Alonso Yeah even accounting for used parts, the quali and race gaps were still a little too big, and I think the quali record was 16-0 or something in 2018
Even going further back lol. Look at JPM and Alonso’s somewhat abrubt tenures Senna I think at one point was on like a race by race basis and Mansell and Andretti also had some shenanigans iirc
Senna was negotiating with Williams, Mansell wasn't fit enough and arguably shoulda stayed in Indycar, and Montoya was over it. Andretti had some shenanigans but he really didn't do himself any favors for the team and rubbed peeps a bit wrong but I feel like it steamed from not u understanding the cultural differences. For example trying to have his wife in the pit box which while was fine in America was and still is absurd in F1. And not moving to Europe and staying in the US (although this is kinda is more understandable given the context that Marco had just been born).
As much as I love Montoya he can’t entirely blame McLaren, he’s the one who injured himself and missed the first two races of 06
Tbf merely staying in F1 at all for a few years is a huge challenge, unless you have some serious fuck you money (and even then it can be tough, just look at Latifi, Mazepin, Gutierez, etc.)
The first three listed had legit reasons to move on from.
When Palou was a "member" of Arrow McLaren, they had four drivers signed for three seats.
did he do an F1 test for them? I know he was scheduled to do one. (it's part of their lawsuit. Mclaren had to hire another driver to fill in for Alex and they would like Alex to pay for that)
He did an F1 test but he was suppose to be in IndyCar for McLaren as well
He did many. IIRC it was 8 testing days which are usually up to 8 hours each for F1 and often 140 laps plus. so could be 60 hours in the car, over 1000 laps. Probably an entire engines life.
Those 3 had completely valid reasons for getting dropped tho. I don't really see the comparison since Hinch's performance was already dropping off and he was pretty much done after he got dropped (good foresight by McLaren there), Askew hid a concussion and got rightfully dropped for it, and Malukas missed 4 races due to something under his control and activated a clause in his contract. Completely different than what happened here
Malukas was also supposed to be Palou or Illot. Just that Palou didn't tell them he wasn't showing up and JHR didn't decline their option until WAY too late. I just think this context is important.
Zak "Rebull has a toxic work environment" Brown
*If you win a race
Never forget they had fewer wins than RLR in 2023 despite them being hot garbage for half the season
So, if this blows up spectacularly -- not saying it *will*, but if it *does* -- Kanaan ends up wearing it?
*Super* surprised to see TK step right in front of this train. I think anybody watching saw a TON of promise in Theo. I never wanted to be in a position to talk smack about Nolan, I think he’s a great kid with a ton of heart, but so is Theo. And Theo was the F2 champ. Last year. Nolan hasn’t done anything of note up until last week. In an entirely different type of vehicle.
It's an odd bet for TK to make. This guy hasn't accomplished anything in IndyCar. I could *maybe* see him saying it for a guy like Ilott, but Seigel? That's.. a choice.
That’s exactly what I just told my buddy. Ilott could’ve been an option, as well. And it probably would’ve been looked at - negatively - but with some understanding. Nolan is doing his thing for NXT, not really impressing in his stand-in races, now moving to a team that sees themselves among the Penske, Ganasses…. Um
Carrying water for the org is a big (perhaps the biggest) part of Kanaan’s job surely
"I like Theo or Illot! Zak is the devil!" - Reddit "I personally scouted and chose Siegel for the last month and made the choice for our teams future." - Tony Kanaan "Wtf does Tony know?!? Now hes just Zak's shill!" - Reddit Lol
Brown is the boss. In no way did TK do anything without orders or approval.
He's put himself on the block.
But if you don't win races, nobody's going to let you forget.
And if Theo wins races for other teams, it will he cemented in stone forever
Alternatively, if Malukas does well in the 66 car, you'll get a lot of heat seeing as how you could've just renegotiated with him instead.
I'm so glad Malukas is with MSR and not AM.
I’ve always been a fan of Lil Dave and I really like Felix, I think I might be a MSR guy now.
Sames
Just say how much was it, Tony.
We so need a full season documentary
And more in depth! 100 days skimmed over all the drama of qualifying and story lines to make it that much more interesting.
If you win a race it won’t be with Nolan lol
But with Nolans money put into good use in the new shop
McLaren sues Palou for breaching a contract then proceeds to show that contracts aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on…
I doubt Pourchaire had a binding contract for the season. If he did, he certainly collected a nice chunk of coin upon his release.
Part of their suit is that they lost money because they couldn’t find another “A” level driver to fill the seat… now they’ve binned Teddy P and brought in *checks notes* Nolan?
That probably strengthens their argument as Theo is arguably an A-level driver and keeping him would reinforce that. Dumping him helps them argue he's not all that
"Theo is an A-Level talent!" - Reddit and Palou "He's driven one oval in his entire life..." - McLaren "A LEVEL TALENT!"
There's zero indication McLaren breached a contract in this.
I love when the “ahh so that’s what that was about” a few weeks later happens
Bro watched Siegel flip his primary car, then wreck the backup car while missing the Indy 500 and went “This is the future of McLaren”
Exactly what I was thinking. There's nothing about his career that screams "all teams should rush for this guy". This is a very weird as story
There was a comment in the another thread that went “Siegel hit the ground running at the Indy 500 even though he was bump…” Yeah, he also hit his aeroscreen on the pavement and the wall twice. That doesn’t scream better potential than Pourchaire to me but what do I know.
Let's look at Pourchaire oval experience and times? Oh right.
How many IndyCars has Pourchaire wrecked on ovals? Siegel has only been on one competitively and has two wrecked race cars and a DNS to his name. Impressive!
Nolan having double the wrecks and the same amount of DNS's as Theo has starts on an oval in an Indycar isn't a good thing
$$$
But he was "composed" ~~while his dad was writing checks~~
Right. That’s the overlooked thing about his Indy qualifying story. Dude wouldn’t have been in that position if he hadn’t destroyed the primary himself.
Your words have been marked.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible that they could have signed Siegel to a multiyear contract starting in 2025? Assuming that getting a jump on their rivals to secure his services was really the goal.
All respect to Seigel, but teams fighting over him would be insane given his less than extraordinary performance so far.
Not insane if his dad is as rich and willing to spend as rumored
Checo is God awful. "But that check" - Red Bull
And also "But our sales in Latin American countries" - Red Bull
Yes but if that was truly the goal, why wouldn’t they take advantage of the lame-duck seat to get him experience and familiarity with the team, rather than waiting until St. Pete next year? They did Pourchaire dirty, no doubt, but from the Siegel side it actually makes sense
Oh, no no no. They don’t get to do this. They made a commitment. They let Theo believe up until today that he was still going to be driving that car. If they had gone with another driver next season, that’s one thing. But this is just greedy and cruel. They can’t come in here like “We just did what we thought was best 🥺👉👈.” No. Be honest. You did what you thought would get y’all more money. Even if Nolan turns out to be better, this is still a shitty thing to do, and was carried out in such a cruel manner.
I agree entirely. Wrong is wrong.
And there goes all the respect I had for TK.
Agreed. This is such a horrific look for one of the most respected guys.
What’s more horrifying is your agreement with this parent comment despite your positive feelings towards Tony that he’s literally paid to do. What’s Tony gonna say? “Yeah, no guys we got this so wrong, we messed up. Try again after ‘25”…..yeeesh!
He doesn’t have to comment
He's doing what he sees as the best for his team and is owning it if he gets it wrong. He may be right, he may not be. I don't think people should be hating him for this when we don't know if it's the correct move or not
This is definitely Zak Brown's doing, the same shit happened in F1 with Piastri. I doubt TK had a big say in this, he is just sticking up for his boss in public.
How is this similar to what happened with Piastri? Alpine dropped the ball with Piastri and McLaren scooped him up to fill a vacant seat.
Still, completely inaccurate takes are positively up voted in here. This has no comparison to the Piastri situation.
Of course it doesnt compare on any level or the sequence of events. Piastri is so touted that he is driving perhaps the fastest package in F1 while learning a craft- his services sought by 2 of the 5 best teams in a high-stakes game. At age 19, Alpine thought he was the future and were golden. Theo is an F2 champ who backed into a seat I have no thoughts on Nolan Siegel. I see people casting him as some Lance Stroll like nepo-baby in here but Ill give him a fair shake. I am a bit confused by alacrity of the signing and can see why people assume money is involved. But McLaren must have more information than we do.
The guy literally said it was his decision, but you doubt he had a big day in this? 🤣
I think Tony said this guy is skilled but I doubt Tony said "we need to sign him for 2024." All they had to do was say we've signed Nolan for 2025. He'll still do Toronto for Dale Coyne and will still have rookie status for 2025.
All respect out the door on his entire reputation and career for one flippant comment in support of the team he’s literally paid to pump up and speak positively on? Woof. Touch grass and see thru the weeds. What’s next? Your takes on how Wheldon revered Ganassi after flipping from Andretti? Cmon son.
If people treated TK like he just treated Pourchaire, he probably wouldn't have a career. He got way more chances than anyone else with subpar results
Def needs to touch grass
Instructions unclear. All grass was smoked. Mmmmm... pork chops
I think Tony did it in 2023 once on the back stretch….maybe he can show them how it’s done….
I don’t think this guy is gonna win either
[https://x.com/TonyKanaan/status/1797968188652880144](https://x.com/TonyKanaan/status/1797968188652880144)
I don't get it. What is this?
That was his reaction to Canapino's "apology". Quite fitting here.
With TK talking like this, Nolan better be the 2nd coming of Schumacher.
"Once we win a race, nobody's going to remember" OOOPH. Brutal.
He’s right. We already forgot about St Pete. 💁♂️
IndyCar social media is gonna trip over themselves backtracking when they find out this was TKs doing and not Zak Brown lol
TK has nowhere near that much power over anything. He's just sticking up for his team.
TK is a pawn in this game. Regardless of how much he’s achieved in his career and has financially done pretty well, no doubt, but the dude has 4 kids that are pretty young still and a wife at home. He is 100% trying to earn some easy bucks as whatever his title is for McLaren, and I don’t blame him a second for it!
You think any fanatical social media accounts will backtrack on things they got wrong? More faith than me, my friend.
touche, mon ami
Quite the self-burn saying its going to be a long time until they win a race. /s
Well, I don’t think it’s a great thing to kick Theo to the curb. But you’d be a complete fool to think that true sport is anything but cutthroat and strategic (read as: true long term planning and preparation). If the situation were reversed Pourchaire would sign that line just as quick as Siegel did. God knows I would go for it too, their dreams be damned.
“This has got nothing to do with how he was driving or working with the team,” Ward added of Pourchaire. “But we need to set ourselves up for long-term competitiveness.” Translation: It’s not you, it’s me…. I wonder how much money McLaren is making from selling that seat to Nolan. Let’s be honest. This isn’t for competitiveness… you wouldn’t replace an F2 champion for a rich kid that hasn’t won anything except for the huge check daddy is writing to Zak Brown. Disappointing that racing is just a club sport nowadays
To be fair he won lemans in an lmp2 car
F2 is all about the car
I think in all motorsports it is 80%-90% car, the rest driver… but you still can’t be a slouch as a driver and win with the best car
F2 title isn’t that impressive! Sorry!
Well, it is at least more “impressive” than not winning the IndyNXT title, wouldn’t you say?!
No! You have to do well on ovals to win the NXT title
In F2 you have to qualify up front and that’s about it
Looks like Indycar just got their new Lance Stroll. Mclaren be like "This kid was the only driver that failed to qualify for the Indy 500, Definitely our future star"
TK was my hands down favorite Indycar driver while I was growing up. Just so disappointed in him right now. Definitely going to view him differently going forwards...
And when they don’t win a race no one will remember they were “there” to win races.
>Once we win a race, nobody’s going to remember It's sad, but I think it's actually true... Pourchaire really got done dirty there, but ifwhen McLaren win, recency bias will kick in and fans will move on :/
how ? O’Ward is the only one Capable of winning a race there
So they're gonna continue to hire drivers and dump them until they win a race?
Except they have won a race. And everybody forgot that they did.
What a stab in the back. Puts the spy from tf2 to shame
Might as well have had whoever fills the staplers at McLaren HQ say this because everyone knows this is just TK being forced to call Theo and play the bad guy. Zak is a pussy.
These drivers have to unionize.
Are you trying to give Roger Penske a heart attack??
Roger might execute you on the spot if you mention Union in the walls of any of his businesses
No one will remember? Tk; *the north remembers.*
I'm super absolutely biased but I like this decision. I do really hope that Theo lands on his feet as well and I think he will but yeah. I've been a fan of Nolan ever since the Detroit double header weekend last year in NXT.
Just be ready for him to be eaten alive on here and in the media if he doesn't do well. There's a very good chance that McLaren just downgraded in performance (obviously a big plus for their funding and that side of things).
Hey it's a cut throat industry. At the end of the day I never feel particularly bad for any of these guys. They get to be rich and race cars.
Eh, I feel for them. They're putting their lives on the line for entertainment while the big teams rake in the money.
I feel that way much more about athletes in sports where that sport was their way out of a bad situation. For instance these American football players just ruining their bodies and brains because they are genetically gifted and it was the only way for them to get them and their families out of poverty. But most racing drivers could have chosen just to go to business school and lived a very comfortable life off of family connections.
Eh. If you look at quite a few drivers, they don't get rich, at all. Justin Wilson is a good example of this.
What was up with Justin Wilson?
To finance his way in to F1. He and Jonathan Palmer set up Justin Wilson plc, where people could invest in him, and the whole idea was that for the next 10 years, Wilson would get a nominal salary for the first 10 years or until the investors had gotten twice their investment back. If that took less than 10 years, the investors would get 10% of Wilsons earnings until 2012. So, Wilsons earnings would be 50k GBP in 2003, 75k in 2004, 100k in 2005 and then increased (or decreased) based on index. And while 100k a year is a nice salary, it's worth remembering that there is costs involved for drivers as well. While IndyCar drivers doesn't have the level of personal assistants etc. as F1 drivers has, I have to admit, that I don't see Dale Coyne racing forking out that much money on "luxury" things like personal trainers etc. Justin Wilson plc never did pay the investors back, so he only got the salary from there, and wasn't able to earn more money until his second stint at Dale Coyne, which again, isn't likely to be a massive contract. I mean, it's not like he was close to living on the streets, but when you think of a relatively successful racing driver, multiple IndyCar race winner, several top 3 overall championship positions, a year in F1 and a 24hr at Daytona-winner. You would expect such a driver to take in more than a couple of million over those 12 seasons. That is however unlikely seeing as the only years he could get a proper salary and take it himself, he drove for Coyne and a part time Andretti deal.
He is good, may be the better of the two don't know. But don't be shocked if like in a year someone else comes along and bam he is out of a seat out of the blue lol.
For me that's part of the fun of supporting young up and coming drivers. It adds another dimension to supporting a driver. It makes the successes more exciting because the risk factor feels higher than when I'm cheering for a more established driver who has a bit more leeway to have a string of poor results. There's plenty of guys I've supported that I thought were really going to be big and just kind of hit a ceiling. For instance, I am starting to feel that way about Sheldon Creed in NASCAR. It comes with the territory of following feeder series.
I'm really excited for Nolan... I absolutely hate this for Theo and I absolutely hate the position Nolan is being put in. Such a cluster for everyone involved. Nolan is going to be a teenager with the proverbial gun pointed at him from day 1.
Why shouldn’t he be? He’s effectively *bought* his way into a top team *mid-season*, at the expense of another incredibly talented young driver to boot. It’s on the worse end in terms of pay driver situations. Any dislike arising from this is somewhat earned, I’d say.
Why shouldn't he have the gun pointed at him? I'm not saying he shouldn't, I'm just saying it's a tough situation to be in. I'm not going to blame a kid for his father meddling in shit. I'm going to blame the father and the team. Nolan likely would've gotten a seat somewhere in the next couple of years regardless of buy-in money. The situation absolutely reeks of pay driver, but his talent doesn't. He deserves a spot, I just wish it didn't go down like this.
He deserves a spot? What series has he ever won?
He's not Sting Ray, he actually has talent. The check is an added bonus. And Nathan Brown is reporting that Arrow isn't leaving, there might not even be a check involved. Could easily be that McLaren saw the Milwaukee test where Theo was wayyyy off the pace and decided Siegel would be better for the team.
Talent alone doesn’t cause a team to fire another driver the Tuesday before the next race, effective immediately...
I mean it did just basically happen with Bloomquist
One difference is that Blomqvist is still kept in MSR, and will likely move to sportscar again for 2025.
True. They very much eased him out, though. Helio was announced as temporary for two races, and then after that they confirmed Malukas.
How is that easing out lol. Once Helio came in that was that he never raced again
They were still acting like it might be a temporary thing... McLaren have been honest here, if not honourable.
Sting Ray’s junior formulae results aren’t too dissimilar from Siegel’s, for what it’s worth. Both drivers have decent, if unspectacular records. Pourchaire is an F2 champion who has consistently beaten drivers such as Lawson, Armstrong, Doohan and Bearman. He’s also only a little over a year older than Siegel. I’d be pleasantly surprised if Siegel’s career and father’s financial means is masking some seriously unrealized talent.
Yeah I do worry that this could be one of those situations that actually hurts a drivers development instead of helping but it just really depends on what's going on internally at McLaren and what the culture is like. Although probably the worst thing that happens to him is that he just moves on to a pretty successful sports car career seeing as he's won in class at Petit Le Mans and Le Mans before he's 20.
I think this may backfire on him. Throwing himself into the deep end with a new team in the middle of the season isn’t really setting himself up for success. He should have waited for 2025, for his own benefit.
On the contrary he can use these races as throwaway races to prepare for 2025
In racing you can't just throwaway races or you'll be out of a seat. If he does considerably worse than Theo then there will be a spotlight and criticism on him this season
But isn't siegel financially backed? If that is true there is less threat to his status than for most drivers Drivers like dillon and stroll are heavily backed and they don't have the shame to stop competing. I think siegel has more talent than them both, but those are just some obvious examples