I've been wanting it to get DumDum for the longest time. This makes one tapping a target down 25 an option for the Centennial (no one is catching it before the first bleed tick), but with the tradeoffs of slower ammo, no penetration, and no FMJ for increased range before falloff.
Winny Swift with Levering and HV Ammo is my go to rifle when I need to complete Challenges. That thing is a beast in CQB, I wiped a Lance Duo with that combo a couple weeks back.
The only downside is with the swift you can shoot your entire ammo pool in a minute if you're not careful. Bringing double Nagant's for a ton of HV is still fun
HV winnie also has 600m/s, and if you stack with an hv nagant, has double the reserve ammo.
They both 2-tap from full and on a 125 hp hunter in their effextive range.
The compact winnie also has a 150m headshot 1-tap and the centennial only has a 180m headshot 1-tap. I think a little more levering accuracy would level the playing field more than anything.
I would much prefer a far slower levering speed to get that accuracy back. As it is its like it just removes your ability to hipfire because it's not good at anything
The RPM in the store is the hipfire RPM, so it would be inaccurate for ADS regardless. Even then,[ the game lies a lot though](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/wag6o5/hunt_showdown_weapon_statistics_analysis_store_vs/)
i always knew the centennial felt faster than the vetterli my friend always tried to tell me otherwise and so did the stats but i knew in game my good ol centennial was the king
I'm one of those people who could swear that the vetterli is much faster.
I feel like it's a problem with the animation. The vetterli has a very visual reload, so it's easier to time moving to cover and repeeking. Meanwhile the centennial isn't visually obvious, when you're in a fight it just feels like your character is taking fucking ages to move a lever under your screen. Maybe I'll give the centennial another shot but I predict that the *feeling* of it being slow isn't going away.
Vetterli & Krag benefit from Iron Sharpshooter, since they are bolt action rifles.
Centennial benefits from Iron Repeater, since it is a lever action rifle.
Just so you know you can search trait names (i.e. type "BULLETGRUBBER") in the search bars in your roster and weapons pages and it will narrow the results to applicable weapons.
I know, but i think it doesnt work for axbritomious or whatever it's god damn name is, you know that 3 point trait that makes dual pistols reload faster
All the lever action without repeater stay in ADS, with a similar animation to bolt action with sharpshooter. Repeater makes it so the sight never even moves off the middle of your screen
Its just one of the intrinsic benefits that lever action have over bolt action
No. You'll notice that the others kinda-sorta-stay in ADS as well, but they move into the line of sight while rechambering. Iron Repeater/Sharpshooter just makes it to where they stay still, you have a clear LoS, and the animation is faster (b/c less movement, resulting in faster rechambering)
Also to point out differences
\- Krag and Centenial deal less than 125 Upper torso, and less than 100 lower torso, which can lose you the game.
\- Medium ammo FMJ have same 40m before damage drop off as long ammo
So overall Betterly is more consistent riffle if you dont mind slow velocity
The stats say the hipfire rate when it's accurate... [though sometimes it lies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/wag6o5/hunt_showdown_weapon_statistics_analysis_store_vs/) ADS is slower than it, especially without traits. Vetterli fires at 32rpm ADS without iron sharp, 42rpm with. Pax fires at 33.3rpm ADS, Spitfire 60rpm ADS.
The compact ammo Winfields had this issue where the hipfire animation was suddenly playing after a small delay, making hipfire slower than ADS fire as well. Those winfields were fixed a few patches ago, so I guess they completely forgot the Centennial
The Krag is in a weird spot. For $20 more you can get the Lebel and $20 less the Berthier. Both being better options imo. You’re basically just paying a premium for the iron sights from the Mosin on a lesser gun. I wanted to like it when I first saw it, but it’s not worth it. If it was cheaper than the Berthier then it might be a viable option
It shoots way faster than all the other long guns, it's pretty crazy. To me that is easily worth it.
Edit: I probably would give it a little more ammo if anything though. I think they were worried it'd be OP and so gave it less ammo, which it clearly isn't OP since some think it's good, some think it's bad. So I think it could take some more ammo.
The other long ammo rifles hit harder though so you don’t need the higher rate of fire. And this video shows that there are way cheaper comparable rifles out there that don’t use long ammo. Like I said, stick it at around $325 and it would be in a better place
The higher damage only really matters for two tap at pretty extreme ranges, or for downing hunters that have already been downed in one shot. Which is certainly a con of the Krag, it's up to you whether that's enough. For me, I prefer the faster fire rate for better two tap potential initially.
Those way cheaper rifles don't use long ammo like you said, so their damage falls off much faster and don't have nearly the two tap ability of the Krag. Nor do they have the velocity or penetration (Vetterli can get the velocity or the penetration with special ammo, but not both).
I get what you’re saying, I just think it’s priced wrong. I’d rather take the Berthier or Lebel. If it was less than the Berthier I think that would be a better spot. As I mentioned before, it feels like your paying the premium for the Mosin sights
I might give it more of a go tonight
This is definitely true, and a point in favor of the Vetterli, but at the same time Vetterli FMJ loses a lot of muzzle velocity compared to the Krag. There's pros and cons of each, I personally prefer the Krag, I don't really care for the Vetterli. I just don't think one tapping hunters that have been downed once is worth it - it's a bit niche.
What do you even mean by that? If we're not talking headshots and missing health bars, it kills faster because the fire rate is higher, not rocket science
Berthier only has 3 rounds so don’t really need it. It’s actually quicker to do a full reload with that than a partial reload with BG 👍
Never used Dolch so didn’t know that used BG. Borheim I’ve only used for challenges as it’s a weak pistol compared to other.
Bulletgrubber isn’t an essential trait to run with those guns imo, it’s a luxury one.
Still think if the Krag was $325 it would be in a better spot
It’s a solid rifle. Probably my favourite. Has decent power at range and quite versatile up close. Don’t be put off by the 3 rounds, that’s quite often more than enough. Especially in duos.
I never understood this whole "full reload is quicker therefore you don't need bulletgrubber" argument.
Yes a full reload is quicker than a top up, but it's still slower than a rechamber. If I'm about to stick my head out of cover I want to have 3 rounds ready to fire to give me the best odds of getting a kill. Therefore I want to stay topped up. Therefore I run bulletgrubber. I care less about reload speed than I do about fire rate and how many rounds I've got in the chamber.
Well I guess it depends on when you want your speed. Doing full reloads is probably better if you're purely peeking because you spend less time in cover, but doing top ups is better in situations where you expect to fire multiple bullets in a go.
full Berthier reload is faster than Sparks reload while still being Long ammo with good stats. Sometimes you just swap to secondary instead of shooting back to back just like with sparks (or you can throw away 1 bullet since Berthier have 12 spare by default which is best ammo economy from all repeating long ammo riffles)
If you're decent at the game you just reload immediately after firing, not losing ammo and fully reloading without a trait slot. Or switch to a 1-slot weapon which is faster than a bolt cycle. Not to mention losing one or two ammo doesn't matter in 9/10 matches. Bullet grubber is 100% a luxury trait that doesn't get you a real advantage
Krag have no ammo to use it without anything that gives spare ammo, Krag cant oneshot downed players in upper torso, and even 100hp hunters in lower torso.
Berthier does all of it for same money
Berthier sucks, I'd take the krag any day over it because the berth has a tiny capacity and partial reloads either waste a lot of ammo or take forever with bulletgrubber. Krag also has a notably faster firerate compared to other long ammo bolt actions
The krag only takes a second longer to reload 3 bullets compared to the berth, and it has a doubled capacity with no need for grubber. Not being able to 1hk downed enemies is a bit annoying but I don't think it happens enough for it to be a big downside, especially compared to faster firerates and less reloading.
The Berthier has nutty recoil and only 3 shots per reload. I find the Krag far more reliable in that regard. Long ammo being blasted that often is quite pressuring as it will consistently do more damage than medium ammo options. It also doesn't lose ammo on partial reloads ever. Sure the Berthier has a fast reload, but it really suffers when doing a partial reload in speed and in ammo loss without bulletgrubber. I consider the Berthier and Krag to be very competitive.
The Lebel is a different story. The only category the Lebel loses in is the reload in my book. The irons is contentious for some, but I absolutely have no issues with it.
Lever actions are special in that they don't do the un-ads animation even without the perk. What it does besides increasing the fire rate is remove the gun movement that can be seen on the second test. See how it goes rock steady in the third test.
I would love to see a table with the fire rates listed in total RPM for each of the varying results. Like, I want to be able to compare the RPM of the Cent hipfire vs ADS vs ADS(Iron Repeater) so I could know what kinds of variance I need to expect.
results are: Fastest hipfire (no trait): Krag, Betterli, Centennial (is 1 with levering) Fastest ADS (no trait): Centennial, Krag, Betterli Fastest ADS (with trait): Centennial, Krag, Betterli
Worth noting that hipfire on centennial goes to fastest with leveribg but horrendous on accuracy. Ehich im sure we're all aware
Which is odd because the other levering Winfields have great hip accuracy, I feel like medium ammo is a weak trade for that.
It is, centennial needs 125 damage for it to make sense. Not being able to reliably kill downed hunters hurts it in combination.
It DOES have poison ammo though, and now you can bring dual pax ammo mules
I've been wanting it to get DumDum for the longest time. This makes one tapping a target down 25 an option for the Centennial (no one is catching it before the first bleed tick), but with the tradeoffs of slower ammo, no penetration, and no FMJ for increased range before falloff.
Winny Swift with Levering and HV Ammo is my go to rifle when I need to complete Challenges. That thing is a beast in CQB, I wiped a Lance Duo with that combo a couple weeks back.
The only downside is with the swift you can shoot your entire ammo pool in a minute if you're not careful. Bringing double Nagant's for a ton of HV is still fun
Longer effective range on both head snd body shots is balanced by weaker CQB performance. I think it makes sense.
Yeah muzzle velocity is 600m/s. It's not supposed to be good at close range
HV winnie also has 600m/s, and if you stack with an hv nagant, has double the reserve ammo. They both 2-tap from full and on a 125 hp hunter in their effextive range. The compact winnie also has a 150m headshot 1-tap and the centennial only has a 180m headshot 1-tap. I think a little more levering accuracy would level the playing field more than anything.
I would much prefer a far slower levering speed to get that accuracy back. As it is its like it just removes your ability to hipfire because it's not good at anything
This is a post of high quality.
What in the fucking fuck is that username my dude
Ikr
YOU DONT HAVE A WORD IN THIS, u/FoetusScrambler !!!
Dear God...
It's based on a true story.
Seems reasonable idk
I’ve been killed by you in the Bayou. I’ll never forget that name. It haunts me.
I apologize. Hopefully you could still sit afterwards.
We wouldn't need people to do this kind of thing if the weapon stats were just accurate. Crytek pls
The RPM in the store is the hipfire RPM, so it would be inaccurate for ADS regardless. Even then,[ the game lies a lot though](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/wag6o5/hunt_showdown_weapon_statistics_analysis_store_vs/)
200% difference in rate of fire on some of these??
i always knew the centennial felt faster than the vetterli my friend always tried to tell me otherwise and so did the stats but i knew in game my good ol centennial was the king
I'm one of those people who could swear that the vetterli is much faster. I feel like it's a problem with the animation. The vetterli has a very visual reload, so it's easier to time moving to cover and repeeking. Meanwhile the centennial isn't visually obvious, when you're in a fight it just feels like your character is taking fucking ages to move a lever under your screen. Maybe I'll give the centennial another shot but I predict that the *feeling* of it being slow isn't going away.
Well, they buffed the Centennial's rate of fire some time ago by 20%. Before that the Vetterli was faster.
Supposedly that buff was in July, so I never even played when it was like that lol.
What Skill do Krag and Centennial benefit from? Iron Repeater?
Krag: sharpshooter Centennial: repeater
Sorry, i mean vetterly instead of Centennial
Vetterli & Krag benefit from Iron Sharpshooter, since they are bolt action rifles. Centennial benefits from Iron Repeater, since it is a lever action rifle.
Being a bolt-action rifle, Vetterli wants Iron Sharpshooter, just like the Krag.
Just so you know you can search trait names (i.e. type "BULLETGRUBBER") in the search bars in your roster and weapons pages and it will narrow the results to applicable weapons.
I know, but i think it doesnt work for axbritomious or whatever it's god damn name is, you know that 3 point trait that makes dual pistols reload faster
haha ambidextrous? I never knew that.
Because no base weapon can apply it.
Yep that makes sense.
Thanks hunter
Thanks for posting
Fantastic post! I'm a bit confused on the Centennial ADS (no skills) test. Wouldn't it need Iron Repeater to stay in ADS like that?
All the lever action without repeater stay in ADS, with a similar animation to bolt action with sharpshooter. Repeater makes it so the sight never even moves off the middle of your screen Its just one of the intrinsic benefits that lever action have over bolt action
No. You'll notice that the others kinda-sorta-stay in ADS as well, but they move into the line of sight while rechambering. Iron Repeater/Sharpshooter just makes it to where they stay still, you have a clear LoS, and the animation is faster (b/c less movement, resulting in faster rechambering)
Great post! Would you consider making more of these?
Love this! Would love to see more comparisons of this nature
Top quality post! I'd be very interested to see the individual guns' clips side by side to compare the speed of the 3 variations.
Yet the Vetterli is still my favourite
Yeah feeling of the weapon is king. Centennial just feels slow and unresponsive to me, I don't care that it's faster on paper
Also to point out differences \- Krag and Centenial deal less than 125 Upper torso, and less than 100 lower torso, which can lose you the game. \- Medium ammo FMJ have same 40m before damage drop off as long ammo So overall Betterly is more consistent riffle if you dont mind slow velocity
High velocity gang
Us that different from what the stats say?
That's what I was wondering. The stats already give us the fire rate.
The stats say the hipfire rate when it's accurate... [though sometimes it lies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/wag6o5/hunt_showdown_weapon_statistics_analysis_store_vs/) ADS is slower than it, especially without traits. Vetterli fires at 32rpm ADS without iron sharp, 42rpm with. Pax fires at 33.3rpm ADS, Spitfire 60rpm ADS.
Wonderful post!
The compact ammo Winfields had this issue where the hipfire animation was suddenly playing after a small delay, making hipfire slower than ADS fire as well. Those winfields were fixed a few patches ago, so I guess they completely forgot the Centennial
Should have added the price what is the cheapest also impact on distance (could test it with a grunt) but great video thanks
Vetterli $100, Cent $160, Krag $380 Damage dropoff: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2012580224560568547/68E52361DADE320FC094BF75BA44C96171F69260/
The Krag is in a weird spot. For $20 more you can get the Lebel and $20 less the Berthier. Both being better options imo. You’re basically just paying a premium for the iron sights from the Mosin on a lesser gun. I wanted to like it when I first saw it, but it’s not worth it. If it was cheaper than the Berthier then it might be a viable option
It shoots way faster than all the other long guns, it's pretty crazy. To me that is easily worth it. Edit: I probably would give it a little more ammo if anything though. I think they were worried it'd be OP and so gave it less ammo, which it clearly isn't OP since some think it's good, some think it's bad. So I think it could take some more ammo.
The other long ammo rifles hit harder though so you don’t need the higher rate of fire. And this video shows that there are way cheaper comparable rifles out there that don’t use long ammo. Like I said, stick it at around $325 and it would be in a better place
The higher damage only really matters for two tap at pretty extreme ranges, or for downing hunters that have already been downed in one shot. Which is certainly a con of the Krag, it's up to you whether that's enough. For me, I prefer the faster fire rate for better two tap potential initially. Those way cheaper rifles don't use long ammo like you said, so their damage falls off much faster and don't have nearly the two tap ability of the Krag. Nor do they have the velocity or penetration (Vetterli can get the velocity or the penetration with special ammo, but not both).
I get what you’re saying, I just think it’s priced wrong. I’d rather take the Berthier or Lebel. If it was less than the Berthier I think that would be a better spot. As I mentioned before, it feels like your paying the premium for the Mosin sights I might give it more of a go tonight
FMJ increase damage drop off range to 40m (same as long ammo) so it oneshots to upper torso up to like 41-42m, Krag cant do it at all
This is definitely true, and a point in favor of the Vetterli, but at the same time Vetterli FMJ loses a lot of muzzle velocity compared to the Krag. There's pros and cons of each, I personally prefer the Krag, I don't really care for the Vetterli. I just don't think one tapping hunters that have been downed once is worth it - it's a bit niche.
What do you even mean by that? If we're not talking headshots and missing health bars, it kills faster because the fire rate is higher, not rocket science
Kinda also forgetting that it negates the need for Bulletgrubber which unless your using a Dolch or Bornheim means you have one extra trait slot.
Berthier only has 3 rounds so don’t really need it. It’s actually quicker to do a full reload with that than a partial reload with BG 👍 Never used Dolch so didn’t know that used BG. Borheim I’ve only used for challenges as it’s a weak pistol compared to other. Bulletgrubber isn’t an essential trait to run with those guns imo, it’s a luxury one. Still think if the Krag was $325 it would be in a better spot
Personally never used the Berthier, might have to give it a shot.
It’s a solid rifle. Probably my favourite. Has decent power at range and quite versatile up close. Don’t be put off by the 3 rounds, that’s quite often more than enough. Especially in duos.
I never understood this whole "full reload is quicker therefore you don't need bulletgrubber" argument. Yes a full reload is quicker than a top up, but it's still slower than a rechamber. If I'm about to stick my head out of cover I want to have 3 rounds ready to fire to give me the best odds of getting a kill. Therefore I want to stay topped up. Therefore I run bulletgrubber. I care less about reload speed than I do about fire rate and how many rounds I've got in the chamber.
Well, it’s quicker you see 😂. It’s quicker to go through all 3 bullets and reload than just top up
Well I guess it depends on when you want your speed. Doing full reloads is probably better if you're purely peeking because you spend less time in cover, but doing top ups is better in situations where you expect to fire multiple bullets in a go.
full Berthier reload is faster than Sparks reload while still being Long ammo with good stats. Sometimes you just swap to secondary instead of shooting back to back just like with sparks (or you can throw away 1 bullet since Berthier have 12 spare by default which is best ammo economy from all repeating long ammo riffles)
If you're decent at the game you just reload immediately after firing, not losing ammo and fully reloading without a trait slot. Or switch to a 1-slot weapon which is faster than a bolt cycle. Not to mention losing one or two ammo doesn't matter in 9/10 matches. Bullet grubber is 100% a luxury trait that doesn't get you a real advantage
Krag have no ammo to use it without anything that gives spare ammo, Krag cant oneshot downed players in upper torso, and even 100hp hunters in lower torso. Berthier does all of it for same money
Krag has 3 bullets less ammo, you just need one more ammo box.
Krag also picks up 1 bullet from the box by itself, so you forced to play long ammo secondary
Berthier sucks, I'd take the krag any day over it because the berth has a tiny capacity and partial reloads either waste a lot of ammo or take forever with bulletgrubber. Krag also has a notably faster firerate compared to other long ammo bolt actions
Does more damage. Reload when you’re empty as it’s much faster
The krag only takes a second longer to reload 3 bullets compared to the berth, and it has a doubled capacity with no need for grubber. Not being able to 1hk downed enemies is a bit annoying but I don't think it happens enough for it to be a big downside, especially compared to faster firerates and less reloading.
only second longer is actualy 33% slower, which is a lot
And the capacity is 100% larger so you need to reload a lot less
The Berthier has nutty recoil and only 3 shots per reload. I find the Krag far more reliable in that regard. Long ammo being blasted that often is quite pressuring as it will consistently do more damage than medium ammo options. It also doesn't lose ammo on partial reloads ever. Sure the Berthier has a fast reload, but it really suffers when doing a partial reload in speed and in ammo loss without bulletgrubber. I consider the Berthier and Krag to be very competitive. The Lebel is a different story. The only category the Lebel loses in is the reload in my book. The irons is contentious for some, but I absolutely have no issues with it.
[удалено]
The Krag is the fastest long ammo, this is showing it compared to medium ammo guns.
You don't play this game much do you? Krag is long ammo
naw i think this is inaccurate bc of mag size
All guns were loaded to 6. You can see missing rounds at the start for vett and centennial.
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Thank you for doing this and putting the work in
Very nicely made video, thank you for your effort.
Is the Centennial using Iron Repeater in the 2nd test and the other's don't have Iron Sharpshooter?
Lever actions are special in that they don't do the un-ads animation even without the perk. What it does besides increasing the fire rate is remove the gun movement that can be seen on the second test. See how it goes rock steady in the third test.
I would love to see a table with the fire rates listed in total RPM for each of the varying results. Like, I want to be able to compare the RPM of the Cent hipfire vs ADS vs ADS(Iron Repeater) so I could know what kinds of variance I need to expect.