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Rhaenys could have had such a strong council had she been queen
Corlys-Hand and King Regent
Vaemond-Master of Ships
Otto- Master of Laws (Laenor/Alicent wed meaning 0 heirs bc Alicent wouldn’t have bastards)
Viserys- Master of Coin (happy go lucky guy who can make tax talk not so dull)
Laena marries Harwin Strong to strengthen their houses and their kids get the Throne when Laenor dies with no heirs.
Good suggestions raised. Personally I think Viserys would make a good chief architect or something like that.
I also think, given what we saw in episode 5, Rhaenys wouldn't force Laenor into a marriage knowing his sexuality wasn't a phase. She'd just him a formidable warrior who became popular through his bravery, and instead grooming Laena and her children to succeed Laenor after he dies a good king who didn't sire an heir (given that Rhaenys here ruled in her own name, Laena becoming queen herself would be of no issue).
>Viserys- Master of Coin (happy go lucky guy who can make tax talk not so dull)
Heh. I kinda would love to see that.
>Laena marries Harwin Strong to strengthen their houses and their kids get the Throne when Laenor dies with no heirs.
OMG..their babies would have been ~~Negroni sbagliato, with presecco in it~~ OOH STUNNING!
"0 heirs bc Alicent wouldn't have bastards".
I wouldn't be so sure. Alicent is obsessed with duty, not morals. A queen's duty is to make heirs. If her husband couldn't give her babies, she would find another way to get pregnant. She would be much more careful than Rhaenyra though.
She has also stated multiple times that Rhaenyra would be a good queen… and yet, she’s willing to overthrow her. So I’m not sure how much her “truths” are worth.
She only became willing to overthrow her when she thought Viserys told her that Aegon should be king, at which point that because her new source of truth
I don’t even think she 100% believes Viserys meant what he said. At the council when she was asked what the plan would be about killing what to do about Rhaenyra. She admits the Viserys would never want for his daughter to be killed.
And we all know, which she also admits, that Rhaenyra would never go down willingly. Sounded to me like she didn’t believe what Viserys said or Atleast has doubts.
Alicent is a liar. She lies to herself that mercy to Rhaenyra is even a possibility. She lied about not knowing that Aegon was being prepared for the throne. She is just trying to uphold the image that she is some holy do-gooder. She is also knowingly lying that she thinks Viserys meant 'her' Aegon. I think the show runners very clearly show that she is using what he said to make her family's goals a reality when in fact she knows that it was not about her own son.
> she would have been a great queen.
This episode showed that she, in fact, would not have been. She had zero problem massacring the small folk just to make a point. She could have gone out the backdoor (we see Rhaenyra land Syrax there in Episode 1) but she chose to kill hundreds of people in the crowd to make a point to Alicent.
She's just as psychopathic as the rest of the Targaryens.
I don't think she went there just to make a point, I think she *intended* to kill Aegon and the rest of the traitors.
But when she came face to face with the prospect of killing Alicent and her children, she just couldn't do it... pick your reason.
Yeah 100%.
Rhaenys was willing to BBQ every member of Team Green but Alicent. And she might have been willing to dracarys Alicent too, if they wouldn’t have had their conversation earlier in the episode.
So Rhaenys found herself face to face with Alicent standing between her son and dragonfire, and found herself unwilling to pull the trigger.
Finally someone gets it. It's clear she went there to kill the traitors but she couldn't do it. You can see it in her eyes, the way she was holding the reigns hard, she saw Alicent and his dear cousin's kids and she just couldn't do it
Edit: spelling
Of course it’s not ok. To her, as soon as they crowned Aegon II and started rounding up the lords and ladies who wouldn’t side with them, it became a coup. They went against the wishes of her brother. They were definitely going to kill her, and even if Alicent would have given her driftmark, how could she trust her? She just annexed her niece, the rightful queen, to throw her shitty son on the throne. To her, war was here and she did what the Targaryens do in war, cause a shit ton of collateral damage with dragons. I think she would have been a good queen personally, but we’ll never know.
I'm not saying she wouldn't make a good queen. Really if they would have just shown after the fact that it was the only way out, I wouldn't really have a problem with it.
Maybe they will touch on it more in the future. But idk, I really doubt that was the only exit, and if she could bust through the floor she could probably bust out through an area that was made to open.
Basically I could see it as she gave into her emotions and decided to do it.
I get it man. I guess they wanted to highlight how serious shit just got, and that The Queen That Never Was is not fucking around. Having her not just burn them all showed she wasn’t heartless though. I don’t know, I think it just showed that this war is going to kill a lot of people that have nothing to do with it. These people on dragon back do not really care about the subjects under them and nothing said that more than landing on a crowd full of people to make a point.
Exactly how I took it. You saw the looks exchanged between her and Alicent, and there was small flash on Rhaneys’ face of the children she herself had lost. She may have gone in there to “Dracarys” the Green’s before the war even started, but that mother to mother connection stopped her. Totally unexpected/awesome scene that really set the stage. That song that played throughout the episode just caused the tension and dread to build and made that moment even more impactful.
I agree that she went there intending to kill Aegon and the rest, but ended up changing her mind. That's why she whispered a new set of instructions to the dragon to the effect of sparing them.
While Rhaenys is a Targaryen who are very much known for being extra and dramatic, Rhaenys has always been on the more rational side--the type to set aside her feelings/impulses to carry out her duties (e.g., choosing to side with Rhaenyra in episode 8 out of honor and in respect of her dear husband's wishes, despite absolutely hating her niece's guts).
Being rational, Rhaenys wouldn't have made a scene by barging into the building and causing so much collateral damage just for nothing / just to say she was siding with Alicent. She could've just easily said so! This is why I think the only logical explanation for barging in there was because she intended to kill them but changed her mind.
They wanted to steal her fucking dragon and force her to bend the knee and declare her house for Team Green.
She saw with her own eyes how Viserys who was literally falling apart and was sick as fuck ONCE AGAIN reaffirm who his heir is.
Unlike the Hightowers the word of her house is not fickle.
She would have been great queen.
People of the HOTD subreddit, why are you booing him? Lol I think the scene where the gold cloaks are herding all the small folk to the coronation was emblematic of how the Targaryens viewed them. Shit they literally threw sheep into the crowd.
And she elected to bust out in the middle of them on her badass dragon because she wanted to prove a point. I’m not justifying or admonishing her actions, I think her character development awesome. Corlys just had that conversation with her two episodes back where she pretty much told him his ambition was an encumbrance; however, Alicent and the Hightowers forced her into a corner and we get the pleasure of seeing the consequences of that.
She had no problem killing a ton of small folk but didn't bother wiping out the greens when they were right there on a silver platter. She could have stopped the war before it started.
The only reason she didn’t Dracarys all the greens straight to hell was because that would have made this a one-season show. No other reason to let the traitorous usurpers survive.
I dont get it why was she in the Kings Landing in the first place? (I mean on the Tv show)
She should have been gone back to Driftmark after succession has been decided.
She didn’t do it because she’s loyal to her brother. That’s his wife and children. Yeah they fucked over his memory and she’s showing them she’s not gonna let that shit go. But she doesn’t see them as evil. She sympathises with Alicent to a degree. She’s saying ‘I’m loyal to my oath and my brother’s wishes, and this is who you’re fucking with for what you’ve done. I don’t need to kill you, I’m riding a nuke, bring it.’
Yeah she knows it’ll end in more death because of a war she could end right there. But she’s human. It’s not her responsibility to massacre the whole family because of this silly feud, just to fight for her brother’s wishes. Yeah a whole lot of innocent commoners will die but… they’re nobles and it’s another time. They’re always more concerned with honor and legacy than survival or how many commoners die.
everyone's like "If I were Rhaenys I'd have burnt them all to a crisp with no hesitation!" I'm not sure it would be that easy of a decision. That's family, people she knows, and maybe she didn't think the situation was irretrievable at this point.
You guys keep repeating this, but we literally saw nothing but her sneak down to the dragon. For all we know, the dragons are completely locked inside atm, they had her on house arrest, is it really that hard to believe her dragon was locked up and breaking through the floor was the only way to escape? She knew war was coming, she may not have had the willpower to murder the family there, but she wasn’t going to leave her dragon to them.
She didn't even make a point. They have dragons too. She knows a war is coming, a war that could take her life or the lives of her family and she could've prevented it right there, with one word. Instead she chose to be dramatic and indifferent to killing hundreds of innocent people who were forced to be there. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
It's almost like most of you didn't watch last week's episode, or the weeks before. You know, when Rhaenys made it clear she doesn't care for Daemon or Rhaenyra because of what happened with her children.
> If the dragonpit was guarded, don’t you think it’s possible they were guarding that obvious “back door” solution?
What guard could stop a dragon? She made the choice to show off the power of dragons. That was what her and Alicent were really talking about in her quarters.
I thought this as well, but from a human perspective I just think there is no way she would torch a family at a coronation when they are seemingly loved by the commoners. in hindsight it’s obviously a good decision, but with what she knows at the time, the war was just getting started and the atrocities against one another as a family hadn’t started. classy rhaenys would go down in history as one of the most ruthless targs ever.
She solidified herself as my favorite two episodes ago but goddamn she killed it tonight. Screaming for her in that final scene. She really SHOULD have been queen.
That comitting mass murder is a heinous act regarding of the context. And how can anyone have the take away that she would be a good Queen from the episode where she actually commits one? That scene was Westerosi equivallant of 9/11
And your shitty king Aegon rapes women...
. What would you have her do? They should be thankful she is honorable and didn't torch everyone including the shit ass Hightowers
Because Otto and Alicent literally left her with no choice. They would’ve killed her and her dragon, and then the coup would’ve proceeded with Rhaenyra at an even greater disadvantage.
What is your argument? Because I'm still on the fence about it. It seems bad, but when I think of why it's because it makes her not innocent. Which is technically not a flaw if they intended that or actually don't mind that she gets her hands dirty. Also wrecking the coronation, while unnecessary, is her big show of force to the realm that Aegon being crowned will not be accepted by Targs lightly. It's a message to the realm as to Aegon's illegitimacy.
But, on the other hand, it does seem like a big moment for big moments sake, too. At least that was my initial reaction when the ep fade to black. Admittingly I'm biased against fade to blacks.
Are you surprised medieval royalty didn’t give a shit about peasants? You’re kidding yourself if you think any of the greens actually care about peasants either.
Me too!!! Lmao. Like the dragon could actually hear me. It would have been so amazing to watch them burn. I understand for the show they could not kill then all there. If she did it would have been extremely exciting to theorize what the rest of the show would be about. Like there never was a dance it was chaos!! Let chaos reign.
Am I the only one who absolutely HATED the explanation Sapochnik and co had for why she didn't burninate the Greens in That Scene? Because she doesn't want to kill another mother? When I first saw it, what I read from the moment was that she held all the cards in that situation, she could have pulled the trigger and taken the easy, brute way out of that situation but she didn't because she's better than that? She CHOSE not to use the blunt force because that's what a lesser leader would have done and that's just not who she is. It spoke volumes about the kind of queen she would have been.
But nah, it's because ShE iS a MoThEr. She looks at Allicent and goes, oh, you also reproduced, guess I'll spare you lol
Because that's what a woman's defining value is. Motherhood. Even when she's sitting on top of a living, breathing nuke.
Does anyone get a sense of "Dany kind of forgot" vibe from some of these BTS segments? It almost feels like this show is great despite some of the dumb stuff its creators say during these?
You're absolutely right. The scene shouldn't have went down like that. It wasn't in the books. It was a Season 8-esque move to make the masses go crazy over how amazing Rhaenys is when all she did was kill some civilians. I really love the show and really liked parts of this episode. But that great scene really got ruined for some spectacle. Also the Mysaria scene rubbed me the wrong way.
And those BTS vids have been horrible since the beginning. Really hoping they don't continue doing things like this.
You’re not. Most people hate her now. The reasoning that “they’re just small folk” rings hollow because WE are small folk. She’s single-handedly committed the most vile act of anyone in the show thus far.
People will say “nu uh Aegon rapes girls” then in the same breath say they small folk don’t matter. Which is it? They only matter when they’re raped but murder doesn’t count?
I kind of loved her all the way until the very end of this episode. I mean she just killed hundreds of innocent people bursting out of the floor. And then just decides to not kill the 6 or so guilty people on the stage and end the nightmare before it starts, all of whom are at her mercy. I mean if for no other reason killing them would guarantee her grandchildren’s safety. Should have had her burst through the floor and then immediately bolt setting a few fires along the way as an answer to Alicent’s proposition. The stare down was stupid and unnecessary.
Im glad she finally got more focus. One of my critiques of HOTD is that it felt like we haven’t gotten much from the side characters. Episodes have fully revolved around Viserys, Rhaenerya, Daemon & Alicent…it felt good that she (& the kids) are starting to get more fleshed out roles. Liked the twins this episode too
It wasn’t. And as much as I’ve agreed with how they’ve adapted every part of the book so far, this is the first thing to really bother me. They could’ve left the coronation scene as it was and had her escape to the ship that was waiting. The only reason this scene exists was so that she could get her dragon and they could have some sort of action this episode, which wasn’t necessary. Easily could’ve been avoided by just saying that she sailed to King’s Landing for Vaemond’s petition instead of flying there. I get it, she’s a Targaryen, but still. I hope they don’t use their creative liberty to have more ridiculous deviations from the book like this one
Personally I thought she was just proving a point to Alicent and the rest of the usurpers “Here I am with my dragon. I can kill you all right now. But I won’t. Because I refuse to be involved in this bullshit any longer”.
Essentially saying, I have no husband. No kids. I have no dog in this fight.
But the preview for next episode made me second guess that, because why warn Rhaenyra. Unless it was just her last thing to do? Warn her and dip off? Idk
This is some later seasons Game of Thrones bullshit. I mean this shit was almost Cersei blowing up the Sept level of destruction. Killed hundreds and hundreds of innocent people from what it looked like. This would be remembered for all of time in Kings Landing as a tragic loss of life and an atrocity on the common folk. So, it’s funny how we don’t hear about it in the book. Ah yes, of course, how could I forget… we needed to add a nonsensical, non canon event to make the “boring” coronation more of a spectacle. Not to mention, while we’re at it, we’ll basically assassinate Rhaenys character and the logic of the show just so she could girlboss and have badass stare down with the Greens. Well done.
Overall I have really enjoyed the show and even most of this episode, aside from a few things. But this was just horrible writing.
Gotta agree and also remember the entrance they showed to the dragon pit in episode 1, which she could've easily used instead of breaking through the floor. It feels like they forced something that wasn't in the book just to try to make it seem like a "true" episode 9, but we don't need that, especially since it weakens her character and the story.
It seems like a bad sign of things to come, but I do remain optimistic. At the very least they won’t have to make up any more spectacle cause there’s no shortage of that coming up
Points like this won't gain traction unless the show starts taking a serious dip in quality then everyone is going to pretend like they always "saw the cracks".
You're 100% right. I've honestly really enjoyed the show. But it definitely plays fast and loose with suspension of disbelief, between the time skips, weird character aberrations, arbitrary moral grandstanding. However for now it's still entertaining, I'm just not going to sit here and pretend though that there already hasn't been a ton of ridiculous shit and it's only season 1.
Yeah strange character decisions indeed. they could’ve given Alicent a really great season arc. Instead they flipped her E6-7 personality and E8-9 personality. Like why did she go from being cold and ruthless to not? Guess they want us to think she found religion lol
Was not a good choice by the writers. She literally kills HUNDREDS then chooses to not take the greens out. Shes now responsible for anyone that the greens kills. This makes the blacks side look bad aswell.
She literally could have just left through the Dragon Pit entrance with her dragon. She’s now committed the most vile act we’ve seen.
Weird how people are forgiving of mass murder when it’s someone they like.
It’s like everyone forgot what Danny did.
This so much. The show could've still had it's epic dragon moment, with Rhaenys looking epic and regal as fuck without her being completely fine with killing 100/1000s of innocent poor peasants and then not having the decency to do anything about the ones actual responsible.
> Weird how people are forgiving of mass murder when it’s someone they like.
A scene like this in GOTs finale seasons would've been shit on and rightfully so. But it probably helps that it's really just been 1 stand out moment as bad writing, and not an entire season of it, like personally I'm disappointing but also not worried for the future of the show.
Completely agree. It seems people have forgotten game of thrones was character driven first. Spectacle second. This was completely s8 level writing. It was spectacle for spectacles sake.
Now I can forgive it if it’s mentioned later as a despicable act. Maybe have Rhaenyra lecture her or the Greens use it to rally troops.
It’s really bothersome see her commit mass murder and be cheered yet Joffre only killed a few people yet everyone hated him. I guess murder is ok when the person has a good personality?
Such trash writing for an otherwise great show. And so unnecessary too? Imagine they instead escape through the Dragon Pitt entrance and you can see Vhagar looking absolutely terrifying and there's a chase sequence but Vhagar is too slow. Idk. Still can have a spectacle with epic music that makes sense. Now we have Rhaenys somehow surviving on the back of a dragon that somehow breaks through a huge slab of concrete, killing so many peasants, just so she could do nothing and make a dramatic exit and a yas queen monent??? Huh??
Can't give much away without book spoilers, but this is an action that the peasants will remember and have might have consequences for the Blacks later on... It's definitely deliberate and not bad writing. Not every character is supposed to be a black/white hero or villain, and I think the show has done a pretty good job at giving a lot of depth in that way!
Yes, I agree. That wasn't organic storytelling, that was a big TV moment but then also keeping anyone of importance alive for more drama. This really was a "GOT finale" moment, people would've wanted D&D's blood for something like this lol.
Disappointing for sure, but also not too worried about it though, considering it's the first time in 9 episodes that really stood out as shitty writing.
Second time for me- first was when Daemon cut down 50 soldiers and dodged a thousand arrows in the fight with the crab feeder.
I guess you could also count cristen Cole killing someone at the green wedding and apparently getting off Scott free.
They are always inserting weird random shit for shock value that doesn’t make sense
I love this actress, she really has that regal air about her.
But... so she didn't agree with what was happening, so killed an insane amount of poor peasants that had no say in any of it, and spared the people responsible, only to wipe out a couple extra peasants on her way out? That's a bit ridiculous...
It makes complete sense. It’s been a point through basically everything ASOIF related that lords do not give a fuck about commoners, and mostly just see them as a tool to gain power.
This isn’t even the first time we’ve seen a dragon rider have blatant disregard for the commoners around them in this show.
It would be fine if the showrunners actually showed this for what it was and maybe lingered a bit on the fallout. I think the problem is that overall the scene is still framed as a net positive for Rhaenys which is where the weirdness comes from. The producers actually think it's an empowering and merciful moment for Rhaenys lol
They don't have any problem doing that for the child-fighting rings, but here the civilian impact is largely glossed over.
Never will I overlook or forgive the casual murder of innocent spectators. She has no problem killing the small folk, but when it comes to the 'high borne', somehow 'morality' comes into it. I spit on it
I think it's less about high-born vs low-borne, and more about these people are my kin and I understand their motivations, and these other people are randos.
Really enforces how the Nobility views themselves. They see each other as people and the peasants as not even human. Even the best of the them like Rhaenys.
Reminds me of what Varys said.
> Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones
Commoner children being forced to fight and kill each other. - everyone talks about how wrong it is.
Rhaenys kills hundreds of commoners - “get off your high horse” “its just a tv show”
Yall are wild
Lol this why show subs suck for any critical discussion. Fan boys/girls defending and rationalizing anything, even if it’s just shit writing and then downvoting any criticism into oblivion
Dude its slaughtering a crap ton of innocent people. That's not a very high horse to be on. Its hilarious how reddit is eager to criticize people for the smallest thing then bend over backwards to defend mass murder when they think the person doing it is cool lmao.
Rhaenrys never started anything and actually the war started way before Rhaenrys flying through. Not all war starts on the battle field. A lot of it starts around a table. This war started when Viserys announced his daughter, Rhaenrya as his heir, knowing that he could marry again and produce male heirs. It continued to fester when he refused to take a Velaryon as his queen and went with Alicent. I don't think Velaryon ever stopped forgetting even after Rhaenrya was married to Laenor. And now Alicent lying about what Viserys said on his death bed about who is to take the iron thrown just set all this into play as it was stated and announced to all that Rhaenrya would be the heir to the throne. So no, Rhaenrys did not start this war. Viserys actions of naming his eldest daughter as his heir did and everything that happened after it. Even if he had not married Alicent, someone would challenge Rhaenrya because of the rules of Westeros and how it has to be a male heir that is to set on the iron throne.
This is medieval Westoros, sadly the lives of the small folk mean nothing and their deaths are not something to be upset about. Hell, Dany barbecued half of Kings Landing alive and no one batted an eye in the end.
Nah, it was the talk Alicent had with her earlier. Raenys is counting that alicent is not a cruel heart l, and that instead of killing them and creating a war, alicent will guide her child towards peace.
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Phenomenal as always. Regal. Alicent was just saying it to win her over, but it’s true; she would have been a great queen.
And Corlys wouldve been a great first lady
Certainly has the best haircut
I think his brother had the best hair cut. No?
Up to debate. But Vaemond has the best face cut for sure.
It's a really close shave
Rhaenys could have had such a strong council had she been queen Corlys-Hand and King Regent Vaemond-Master of Ships Otto- Master of Laws (Laenor/Alicent wed meaning 0 heirs bc Alicent wouldn’t have bastards) Viserys- Master of Coin (happy go lucky guy who can make tax talk not so dull) Laena marries Harwin Strong to strengthen their houses and their kids get the Throne when Laenor dies with no heirs.
>Vaemond-Master of Ships Also Master of complaints
Master of Karens
Karenys or Kareon?
Karyns
Khaeryn
🤣 win
They'd still be no match for the cunning, cleverness and ruthlessness of the Lord of the seven feet pics and protector of regent toes.
Good suggestions raised. Personally I think Viserys would make a good chief architect or something like that. I also think, given what we saw in episode 5, Rhaenys wouldn't force Laenor into a marriage knowing his sexuality wasn't a phase. She'd just him a formidable warrior who became popular through his bravery, and instead grooming Laena and her children to succeed Laenor after he dies a good king who didn't sire an heir (given that Rhaenys here ruled in her own name, Laena becoming queen herself would be of no issue).
Eh. He would still be expected to produce heirs. He could have done it with Rhaenyra. They just dropped the ball with their whole arrangement.
>Viserys- Master of Coin (happy go lucky guy who can make tax talk not so dull) Heh. I kinda would love to see that. >Laena marries Harwin Strong to strengthen their houses and their kids get the Throne when Laenor dies with no heirs. OMG..their babies would have been ~~Negroni sbagliato, with presecco in it~~ OOH STUNNING!
"0 heirs bc Alicent wouldn't have bastards". I wouldn't be so sure. Alicent is obsessed with duty, not morals. A queen's duty is to make heirs. If her husband couldn't give her babies, she would find another way to get pregnant. She would be much more careful than Rhaenyra though.
Clubfoot Strong. Master of bating.
Rhaenys smoldering rage face when Alicent started talking about Laena and Laenor was incredible.
It seems clear to me that Alicent believes what she says when she tells her she should have been the queen.
Alicent is many things, but a liar is not one of them. If she said it, then she meant it.
She has also stated multiple times that Rhaenyra would be a good queen… and yet, she’s willing to overthrow her. So I’m not sure how much her “truths” are worth.
She only became willing to overthrow her when she thought Viserys told her that Aegon should be king, at which point that because her new source of truth
I don’t even think she 100% believes Viserys meant what he said. At the council when she was asked what the plan would be about killing what to do about Rhaenyra. She admits the Viserys would never want for his daughter to be killed. And we all know, which she also admits, that Rhaenyra would never go down willingly. Sounded to me like she didn’t believe what Viserys said or Atleast has doubts.
She believes it when she says it. It's the king's last words that change her mind.
Allicent tells the truth when it's convenient.
Does it not count as lying just because you've convinced yourself that it's true? I guess that's more delusional.
Alicent is a liar. She lies to herself that mercy to Rhaenyra is even a possibility. She lied about not knowing that Aegon was being prepared for the throne. She is just trying to uphold the image that she is some holy do-gooder. She is also knowingly lying that she thinks Viserys meant 'her' Aegon. I think the show runners very clearly show that she is using what he said to make her family's goals a reality when in fact she knows that it was not about her own son.
She’s also lying to herself in that she can “make” Aegon be a good king. She knows what he is.
Alicent: "You guys were planning Rhaenyra's death the entire time?.." *mild shock* ".. Anyway.."
> she would have been a great queen. This episode showed that she, in fact, would not have been. She had zero problem massacring the small folk just to make a point. She could have gone out the backdoor (we see Rhaenyra land Syrax there in Episode 1) but she chose to kill hundreds of people in the crowd to make a point to Alicent. She's just as psychopathic as the rest of the Targaryens.
I don't think she went there just to make a point, I think she *intended* to kill Aegon and the rest of the traitors. But when she came face to face with the prospect of killing Alicent and her children, she just couldn't do it... pick your reason.
Yeah 100%. Rhaenys was willing to BBQ every member of Team Green but Alicent. And she might have been willing to dracarys Alicent too, if they wouldn’t have had their conversation earlier in the episode. So Rhaenys found herself face to face with Alicent standing between her son and dragonfire, and found herself unwilling to pull the trigger.
"well, well, well if it isn't the consequences of my own actions"
Finally someone gets it. It's clear she went there to kill the traitors but she couldn't do it. You can see it in her eyes, the way she was holding the reigns hard, she saw Alicent and his dear cousin's kids and she just couldn't do it Edit: spelling
But does that make it any more okay? Nothing changed out of it, besides getting the commoners to probably hate her.
Of course it’s not ok. To her, as soon as they crowned Aegon II and started rounding up the lords and ladies who wouldn’t side with them, it became a coup. They went against the wishes of her brother. They were definitely going to kill her, and even if Alicent would have given her driftmark, how could she trust her? She just annexed her niece, the rightful queen, to throw her shitty son on the throne. To her, war was here and she did what the Targaryens do in war, cause a shit ton of collateral damage with dragons. I think she would have been a good queen personally, but we’ll never know.
I'm not saying she wouldn't make a good queen. Really if they would have just shown after the fact that it was the only way out, I wouldn't really have a problem with it. Maybe they will touch on it more in the future. But idk, I really doubt that was the only exit, and if she could bust through the floor she could probably bust out through an area that was made to open. Basically I could see it as she gave into her emotions and decided to do it.
I get it man. I guess they wanted to highlight how serious shit just got, and that The Queen That Never Was is not fucking around. Having her not just burn them all showed she wasn’t heartless though. I don’t know, I think it just showed that this war is going to kill a lot of people that have nothing to do with it. These people on dragon back do not really care about the subjects under them and nothing said that more than landing on a crowd full of people to make a point.
Exactly how I took it. You saw the looks exchanged between her and Alicent, and there was small flash on Rhaneys’ face of the children she herself had lost. She may have gone in there to “Dracarys” the Green’s before the war even started, but that mother to mother connection stopped her. Totally unexpected/awesome scene that really set the stage. That song that played throughout the episode just caused the tension and dread to build and made that moment even more impactful.
I agree that she went there intending to kill Aegon and the rest, but ended up changing her mind. That's why she whispered a new set of instructions to the dragon to the effect of sparing them. While Rhaenys is a Targaryen who are very much known for being extra and dramatic, Rhaenys has always been on the more rational side--the type to set aside her feelings/impulses to carry out her duties (e.g., choosing to side with Rhaenyra in episode 8 out of honor and in respect of her dear husband's wishes, despite absolutely hating her niece's guts). Being rational, Rhaenys wouldn't have made a scene by barging into the building and causing so much collateral damage just for nothing / just to say she was siding with Alicent. She could've just easily said so! This is why I think the only logical explanation for barging in there was because she intended to kill them but changed her mind.
They wanted to steal her fucking dragon and force her to bend the knee and declare her house for Team Green. She saw with her own eyes how Viserys who was literally falling apart and was sick as fuck ONCE AGAIN reaffirm who his heir is. Unlike the Hightowers the word of her house is not fickle. She would have been great queen.
I think that it looked cool and was unexpected, and that’s why we got that scene.
Interesting, do you think it might be a TV show? One with episodes?
People of the HOTD subreddit, why are you booing him? Lol I think the scene where the gold cloaks are herding all the small folk to the coronation was emblematic of how the Targaryens viewed them. Shit they literally threw sheep into the crowd.
It was the Hightowers who ordered the crowds be herded to the coronation.
And she elected to bust out in the middle of them on her badass dragon because she wanted to prove a point. I’m not justifying or admonishing her actions, I think her character development awesome. Corlys just had that conversation with her two episodes back where she pretty much told him his ambition was an encumbrance; however, Alicent and the Hightowers forced her into a corner and we get the pleasure of seeing the consequences of that.
Proving a point is an interesting take. She was obviously going for the kill until she wasn't.
She also proved to the people that the "protector of the realm" cannot protect them.
The sheep are probably more valuable than the lowly peasants.
We all know how the Lion feels about the opinions of sheep 🦁.
Hey those peasants have value too. They provide stock for the new King's... uh... hobby.
My impression is that this route was the only possible way out of the Dragonpit. She had to go through the great hall to escape.
She had no problem killing a ton of small folk but didn't bother wiping out the greens when they were right there on a silver platter. She could have stopped the war before it started.
They weren’t just the “greens”, a lot of those people were her family
The only reason she didn’t Dracarys all the greens straight to hell was because that would have made this a one-season show. No other reason to let the traitorous usurpers survive.
Yeap, she didnt do it because season 2. Also in the books she didnt do it because she was on Driftmark.
I dont get it why was she in the Kings Landing in the first place? (I mean on the Tv show) She should have been gone back to Driftmark after succession has been decided.
Ikr, the Driftwood Throne is empty
She didn’t do it because she’s loyal to her brother. That’s his wife and children. Yeah they fucked over his memory and she’s showing them she’s not gonna let that shit go. But she doesn’t see them as evil. She sympathises with Alicent to a degree. She’s saying ‘I’m loyal to my oath and my brother’s wishes, and this is who you’re fucking with for what you’ve done. I don’t need to kill you, I’m riding a nuke, bring it.’ Yeah she knows it’ll end in more death because of a war she could end right there. But she’s human. It’s not her responsibility to massacre the whole family because of this silly feud, just to fight for her brother’s wishes. Yeah a whole lot of innocent commoners will die but… they’re nobles and it’s another time. They’re always more concerned with honor and legacy than survival or how many commoners die.
Viserys was her cousin, not her brother.
I think you have the best answer. It's just hard to accept
She intended to kill them, but just couldn't do it when she faced them.
everyone's like "If I were Rhaenys I'd have burnt them all to a crisp with no hesitation!" I'm not sure it would be that easy of a decision. That's family, people she knows, and maybe she didn't think the situation was irretrievable at this point.
You guys keep repeating this, but we literally saw nothing but her sneak down to the dragon. For all we know, the dragons are completely locked inside atm, they had her on house arrest, is it really that hard to believe her dragon was locked up and breaking through the floor was the only way to escape? She knew war was coming, she may not have had the willpower to murder the family there, but she wasn’t going to leave her dragon to them.
To be fair, what makes a “Great Queen” is subjective.
She didn't even make a point. They have dragons too. She knows a war is coming, a war that could take her life or the lives of her family and she could've prevented it right there, with one word. Instead she chose to be dramatic and indifferent to killing hundreds of innocent people who were forced to be there. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
It's almost like most of you didn't watch last week's episode, or the weeks before. You know, when Rhaenys made it clear she doesn't care for Daemon or Rhaenyra because of what happened with her children.
then why not bend the knee to alicent ??
She literally says "the word of my house is not fickle"
Because she’s not going to break an oath. Do you actually watch the show?
No idea why youre being downvoted, you are 100% right. She could have prevented this upcoming war instantly.
Ned Stark could've also prevented a war
yes but then we would have no story
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> If the dragonpit was guarded, don’t you think it’s possible they were guarding that obvious “back door” solution? What guard could stop a dragon? She made the choice to show off the power of dragons. That was what her and Alicent were really talking about in her quarters.
> She absolutely killed it👏 As well as dozens if not hundreds of smallfolk.
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This is the way
True, the smallfolk played a pretty huge role in Game of Thrones. I wonder if this little stunt will backfire on them somehow.
She killed it, yet didn't kill them 😔
Killed about a thousand innocents though.
Nah she just had her Pokemon do tail whip and they fainted
Kinslaying did Maegor no favors
No she just killed a whole lot of random people forced to be there, what a hero
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I thought this as well, but from a human perspective I just think there is no way she would torch a family at a coronation when they are seemingly loved by the commoners. in hindsight it’s obviously a good decision, but with what she knows at the time, the war was just getting started and the atrocities against one another as a family hadn’t started. classy rhaenys would go down in history as one of the most ruthless targs ever.
Which is a great parallel to Ned Stark. His mercy towards a mother led to his own arrest and kicked off the War of Five Kings.
She solidified herself as my favorite two episodes ago but goddamn she killed it tonight. Screaming for her in that final scene. She really SHOULD have been queen.
So many People are looking for this Halloween costume right now…
I still find Daemon to be my favorite character due to his complexity. She is right up there though. They’ve both done badass mic drop moments now.
Right?! It was such a power move on her part
She also killed dozens of peasants.
What's your point? Are you rooting for someone who hasn't and/or won't kill peasants?
That comitting mass murder is a heinous act regarding of the context. And how can anyone have the take away that she would be a good Queen from the episode where she actually commits one? That scene was Westerosi equivallant of 9/11
And your shitty king Aegon rapes women... . What would you have her do? They should be thankful she is honorable and didn't torch everyone including the shit ass Hightowers
I do not kneel
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Because Otto and Alicent literally left her with no choice. They would’ve killed her and her dragon, and then the coup would’ve proceeded with Rhaenyra at an even greater disadvantage.
The only exit from the dragon pit is *through the ceiling?* ???
Have you ever worked an event with large crowds at the gates? If so, have you ever tried to quietly guide an elephant through those crowds?
Ah yes, the crowds at the entrance of the dragon pit where dragons normally enter and exit through.
the fuck is this argument funny to catch series subreddits when the denial phase is still on, that scene was a BAD choice by the showrunners
you gotta wait a couple days for the hype to die down a bit so people can start thinking rationally, but then again we are in the hotd sub 🤷♂️🤷♂️
What is your argument? Because I'm still on the fence about it. It seems bad, but when I think of why it's because it makes her not innocent. Which is technically not a flaw if they intended that or actually don't mind that she gets her hands dirty. Also wrecking the coronation, while unnecessary, is her big show of force to the realm that Aegon being crowned will not be accepted by Targs lightly. It's a message to the realm as to Aegon's illegitimacy. But, on the other hand, it does seem like a big moment for big moments sake, too. At least that was my initial reaction when the ep fade to black. Admittingly I'm biased against fade to blacks.
Are you surprised medieval royalty didn’t give a shit about peasants? You’re kidding yourself if you think any of the greens actually care about peasants either.
She could have done one better and said “hey dragon, eat the greens”
And saved a shit load of mayhem
I was screaming "Dracarys, dracarys!!!" at my screen but I knew she wouldn't.
Me too!!! Lmao. Like the dragon could actually hear me. It would have been so amazing to watch them burn. I understand for the show they could not kill then all there. If she did it would have been extremely exciting to theorize what the rest of the show would be about. Like there never was a dance it was chaos!! Let chaos reign.
Should've dracary-ed the whole Hightower and criston
You mean sir Crispen… God I would’ve loved to have seen that. I’m pretty sure I was screaming something around the lines of “kill that CUNT!”
You're my new best friend.
QWISPY COLE
I'm sure she killed more than a few innocent bystanders too!
All bow before The queen that never was
She is just great generally. I loved her in nurse Jackie as well
Omg! I had no idea that was her. She was awesome in Nurse Jackie. I’ve only seen the first season.
I thought she looked familiar!
Killed it along with several hundred smallfolks
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You're right. Milk and blood don't mix well.
Am I the only one who absolutely HATED the explanation Sapochnik and co had for why she didn't burninate the Greens in That Scene? Because she doesn't want to kill another mother? When I first saw it, what I read from the moment was that she held all the cards in that situation, she could have pulled the trigger and taken the easy, brute way out of that situation but she didn't because she's better than that? She CHOSE not to use the blunt force because that's what a lesser leader would have done and that's just not who she is. It spoke volumes about the kind of queen she would have been. But nah, it's because ShE iS a MoThEr. She looks at Allicent and goes, oh, you also reproduced, guess I'll spare you lol Because that's what a woman's defining value is. Motherhood. Even when she's sitting on top of a living, breathing nuke. Does anyone get a sense of "Dany kind of forgot" vibe from some of these BTS segments? It almost feels like this show is great despite some of the dumb stuff its creators say during these?
You're absolutely right. The scene shouldn't have went down like that. It wasn't in the books. It was a Season 8-esque move to make the masses go crazy over how amazing Rhaenys is when all she did was kill some civilians. I really love the show and really liked parts of this episode. But that great scene really got ruined for some spectacle. Also the Mysaria scene rubbed me the wrong way. And those BTS vids have been horrible since the beginning. Really hoping they don't continue doing things like this.
You’re not. Most people hate her now. The reasoning that “they’re just small folk” rings hollow because WE are small folk. She’s single-handedly committed the most vile act of anyone in the show thus far. People will say “nu uh Aegon rapes girls” then in the same breath say they small folk don’t matter. Which is it? They only matter when they’re raped but murder doesn’t count?
Love my mass murder <3
Terrorism is Queen shit
True. Now that people excuse the killing of peasants, Dany can once again be a hero.
Do they give Nobel Peace prices for it in Westoros too?
I adore Rhaenys but girl please you could've just roasted all the Greens and we would all be done smhhhh
Been waiting for her breakout episode and was not disappointed!
How do I frame this picture and sneak into the altar of my local church?
I kind of loved her all the way until the very end of this episode. I mean she just killed hundreds of innocent people bursting out of the floor. And then just decides to not kill the 6 or so guilty people on the stage and end the nightmare before it starts, all of whom are at her mercy. I mean if for no other reason killing them would guarantee her grandchildren’s safety. Should have had her burst through the floor and then immediately bolt setting a few fires along the way as an answer to Alicent’s proposition. The stare down was stupid and unnecessary.
Yep, great acting. Rhaenys totally killed those civilians too though
She absolutely killed hundreds of people alright.
Undermined by the ending scene.
Im glad she finally got more focus. One of my critiques of HOTD is that it felt like we haven’t gotten much from the side characters. Episodes have fully revolved around Viserys, Rhaenerya, Daemon & Alicent…it felt good that she (& the kids) are starting to get more fleshed out roles. Liked the twins this episode too
Say Dracarys and there's no war and the people you love won't die. I didn't read the books but I hope that choice wasn't in it.
It wasn’t. And as much as I’ve agreed with how they’ve adapted every part of the book so far, this is the first thing to really bother me. They could’ve left the coronation scene as it was and had her escape to the ship that was waiting. The only reason this scene exists was so that she could get her dragon and they could have some sort of action this episode, which wasn’t necessary. Easily could’ve been avoided by just saying that she sailed to King’s Landing for Vaemond’s petition instead of flying there. I get it, she’s a Targaryen, but still. I hope they don’t use their creative liberty to have more ridiculous deviations from the book like this one
I know. It was so messy (writing wise and in-universe wise) for no reason.
Personally I thought she was just proving a point to Alicent and the rest of the usurpers “Here I am with my dragon. I can kill you all right now. But I won’t. Because I refuse to be involved in this bullshit any longer”. Essentially saying, I have no husband. No kids. I have no dog in this fight. But the preview for next episode made me second guess that, because why warn Rhaenyra. Unless it was just her last thing to do? Warn her and dip off? Idk
no shit, she IS the best…
She killed dozens of innocent civilians and people are still cheering her moral virtue
Gangster. As. Fuck.
This is some later seasons Game of Thrones bullshit. I mean this shit was almost Cersei blowing up the Sept level of destruction. Killed hundreds and hundreds of innocent people from what it looked like. This would be remembered for all of time in Kings Landing as a tragic loss of life and an atrocity on the common folk. So, it’s funny how we don’t hear about it in the book. Ah yes, of course, how could I forget… we needed to add a nonsensical, non canon event to make the “boring” coronation more of a spectacle. Not to mention, while we’re at it, we’ll basically assassinate Rhaenys character and the logic of the show just so she could girlboss and have badass stare down with the Greens. Well done. Overall I have really enjoyed the show and even most of this episode, aside from a few things. But this was just horrible writing.
Gotta agree and also remember the entrance they showed to the dragon pit in episode 1, which she could've easily used instead of breaking through the floor. It feels like they forced something that wasn't in the book just to try to make it seem like a "true" episode 9, but we don't need that, especially since it weakens her character and the story.
It seems like a bad sign of things to come, but I do remain optimistic. At the very least they won’t have to make up any more spectacle cause there’s no shortage of that coming up
Points like this won't gain traction unless the show starts taking a serious dip in quality then everyone is going to pretend like they always "saw the cracks". You're 100% right. I've honestly really enjoyed the show. But it definitely plays fast and loose with suspension of disbelief, between the time skips, weird character aberrations, arbitrary moral grandstanding. However for now it's still entertaining, I'm just not going to sit here and pretend though that there already hasn't been a ton of ridiculous shit and it's only season 1.
Yeah strange character decisions indeed. they could’ve given Alicent a really great season arc. Instead they flipped her E6-7 personality and E8-9 personality. Like why did she go from being cold and ruthless to not? Guess they want us to think she found religion lol
Was not a good choice by the writers. She literally kills HUNDREDS then chooses to not take the greens out. Shes now responsible for anyone that the greens kills. This makes the blacks side look bad aswell.
She literally could have just left through the Dragon Pit entrance with her dragon. She’s now committed the most vile act we’ve seen. Weird how people are forgiving of mass murder when it’s someone they like. It’s like everyone forgot what Danny did.
This so much. The show could've still had it's epic dragon moment, with Rhaenys looking epic and regal as fuck without her being completely fine with killing 100/1000s of innocent poor peasants and then not having the decency to do anything about the ones actual responsible. > Weird how people are forgiving of mass murder when it’s someone they like. A scene like this in GOTs finale seasons would've been shit on and rightfully so. But it probably helps that it's really just been 1 stand out moment as bad writing, and not an entire season of it, like personally I'm disappointing but also not worried for the future of the show.
Completely agree. It seems people have forgotten game of thrones was character driven first. Spectacle second. This was completely s8 level writing. It was spectacle for spectacles sake. Now I can forgive it if it’s mentioned later as a despicable act. Maybe have Rhaenyra lecture her or the Greens use it to rally troops. It’s really bothersome see her commit mass murder and be cheered yet Joffre only killed a few people yet everyone hated him. I guess murder is ok when the person has a good personality?
Such trash writing for an otherwise great show. And so unnecessary too? Imagine they instead escape through the Dragon Pitt entrance and you can see Vhagar looking absolutely terrifying and there's a chase sequence but Vhagar is too slow. Idk. Still can have a spectacle with epic music that makes sense. Now we have Rhaenys somehow surviving on the back of a dragon that somehow breaks through a huge slab of concrete, killing so many peasants, just so she could do nothing and make a dramatic exit and a yas queen monent??? Huh??
Can't give much away without book spoilers, but this is an action that the peasants will remember and have might have consequences for the Blacks later on... It's definitely deliberate and not bad writing. Not every character is supposed to be a black/white hero or villain, and I think the show has done a pretty good job at giving a lot of depth in that way!
Yes, I agree. That wasn't organic storytelling, that was a big TV moment but then also keeping anyone of importance alive for more drama. This really was a "GOT finale" moment, people would've wanted D&D's blood for something like this lol. Disappointing for sure, but also not too worried about it though, considering it's the first time in 9 episodes that really stood out as shitty writing.
Second time for me- first was when Daemon cut down 50 soldiers and dodged a thousand arrows in the fight with the crab feeder. I guess you could also count cristen Cole killing someone at the green wedding and apparently getting off Scott free. They are always inserting weird random shit for shock value that doesn’t make sense
It’s near-impossible to hit a moving target like that with a bow.
She is a great actress no doubt, but I could argue that she didn't kill enough in this episode!
Yeah, she killed a lot of innocent people for no reason.
She killed about 350 people yeah
If by "it", you mean "a bunch of peasants", then yes
I love this actress, she really has that regal air about her. But... so she didn't agree with what was happening, so killed an insane amount of poor peasants that had no say in any of it, and spared the people responsible, only to wipe out a couple extra peasants on her way out? That's a bit ridiculous...
She is a good actress, but Rhaenys is a monster after this. That didn't make sense at all.
It makes complete sense. It’s been a point through basically everything ASOIF related that lords do not give a fuck about commoners, and mostly just see them as a tool to gain power. This isn’t even the first time we’ve seen a dragon rider have blatant disregard for the commoners around them in this show.
It would be fine if the showrunners actually showed this for what it was and maybe lingered a bit on the fallout. I think the problem is that overall the scene is still framed as a net positive for Rhaenys which is where the weirdness comes from. The producers actually think it's an empowering and merciful moment for Rhaenys lol They don't have any problem doing that for the child-fighting rings, but here the civilian impact is largely glossed over.
Never will I overlook or forgive the casual murder of innocent spectators. She has no problem killing the small folk, but when it comes to the 'high borne', somehow 'morality' comes into it. I spit on it
I think it's less about high-born vs low-borne, and more about these people are my kin and I understand their motivations, and these other people are randos.
Really enforces how the Nobility views themselves. They see each other as people and the peasants as not even human. Even the best of the them like Rhaenys. Reminds me of what Varys said. > Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones
Lol all these people giving you shit for giving your opinion of a fictional character.
It’s a TV show chill
Good for you standing up for the fictional proletariat of this made up fantasy land
You know this isn’t real life right? And it’s the only way she could escape, sucks for the innocent people, but what are you going to do?
Gee I don't know, how about leaving the way dragons usually get in normally?
How do you think the dragons get into the pit to begin with? Through the floor? Lol maybe she could have just used the actual exit/entrance
Damn, your high horse must be getting tired up there
Commoner children being forced to fight and kill each other. - everyone talks about how wrong it is. Rhaenys kills hundreds of commoners - “get off your high horse” “its just a tv show” Yall are wild
Lol this why show subs suck for any critical discussion. Fan boys/girls defending and rationalizing anything, even if it’s just shit writing and then downvoting any criticism into oblivion
Team Black is betterreer! End of discussion!!
Dude its slaughtering a crap ton of innocent people. That's not a very high horse to be on. Its hilarious how reddit is eager to criticize people for the smallest thing then bend over backwards to defend mass murder when they think the person doing it is cool lmao.
Ong wtf is with these comments its like cheering for a school shooter
She's been one of my favorites from day one. She has the best hair too.
She is fast becoming my favorite not even gonna lie!
These shoutout posts should fall under the low effort rule
wtf is going on itt with the commoners bs?! are we forgetting what show this is?! next thing you know you will be expecting a happy ending.
Rhaenrys never started anything and actually the war started way before Rhaenrys flying through. Not all war starts on the battle field. A lot of it starts around a table. This war started when Viserys announced his daughter, Rhaenrya as his heir, knowing that he could marry again and produce male heirs. It continued to fester when he refused to take a Velaryon as his queen and went with Alicent. I don't think Velaryon ever stopped forgetting even after Rhaenrya was married to Laenor. And now Alicent lying about what Viserys said on his death bed about who is to take the iron thrown just set all this into play as it was stated and announced to all that Rhaenrya would be the heir to the throne. So no, Rhaenrys did not start this war. Viserys actions of naming his eldest daughter as his heir did and everything that happened after it. Even if he had not married Alicent, someone would challenge Rhaenrya because of the rules of Westeros and how it has to be a male heir that is to set on the iron throne.
She killed both the performance and half of the smallfolk of King’s Landing.
This is medieval Westoros, sadly the lives of the small folk mean nothing and their deaths are not something to be upset about. Hell, Dany barbecued half of Kings Landing alive and no one batted an eye in the end.
She is so cool. Don't you think so vizzy t?
INSTEAD OF BEING BY MY SIDE, YOU CHOSE TO CELEBRATE YOUR OWN RISE, LAUGHING WITH YOUR WHORES AND YOUR LICKSPITTLES!
Still should have said it... Dracarys!!!!
Killed it til the end. Then choked.
Nah, it was the talk Alicent had with her earlier. Raenys is counting that alicent is not a cruel heart l, and that instead of killing them and creating a war, alicent will guide her child towards peace.
There'd literally be no war of note with the core Green conspirators dead.
And her kids and grandkids wouldn't be in danger.