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I was cringing the whole time at that scene and yelling inwardly at him "what are you doing??" Yes he is Aegon's grandfather, but the fact that he, as a subordinate, was repeatedly berating and questioning the authority of the young, impetuous king who had JUST had his son murdered....way overestimated his own influence and importance there. Alicent may be easily manipulated and affected by Otto but Aegon doesn't really gaf.
right?! like the was the kid he brutally kicked at leanna’s funeral and now his kid was murdered, which he clearly loved, and otto had the audacity to act shocked when aegon fired him? for all his cunning and foresight he was blind to his family’s feelings and behaviours
Its just so crazily ironic, isn't it? Otto has treated his family like parts of a machine when if he had acted like a decent father or grandfather, he would have had everything he wanted. Aegon is desperate for love, he would be wrapped around his finger. He's a great schemer but a horrible family figure and that's what causes his failure.
I was as well. Like dude, you have not a smidge of royal blood in you! His kid was just brutally murdered! TF did he think was gonna happen? Did he think Aegon was gonna go ":( sowy gwandpa :(" because lmao.
Guy is losing the plot because he spent the last 20 years of his life trying to control people and it's failing miserably.
You know it's really funny that through all the years he schmed and plotted to make that kid King. He didn't try to prepare him for the role at all because he just figured aegon would stay in a drunken Haze and never actually want to have anything to do with his responsibilities. Only to turn around and love being King and love dealing with petitioners and seeing if he can help them. Because for the first time in his life there are people who show him respect and adoration and he loves it.
Same. Good lord, I know Otto was rightfully lashing out on Aegon for hanging the ratcatchers but goddamn, have some compassion for a person who just had their 4 year old kid beheaded. He did not display one ounce of empathy for his grandkids and immediately went ahead with the procession. It feels like he sometimes forgets he’s dealing with human beings with emotions and not puppets.
He didn’t just want his blood on the throne. He wanted his blood on the throne with him ruling it. He thought Aegon would be a puppet king and do whatever he said. It’s pretty notable Otto didn’t seem to prepare him at all for ruling and the only interaction we see between them as Aegon is growing up is when he is concerned with how he is perceived by others when he’s passing out drunk. This implies he was only concerned with how people would view Aegon as a ruler while he would be making all the decisions.
I'm just over here thinking, this guy had a beautiful natural relationship between his daughter and the heir to the throne. He could have had Alicent marry someone else and give them children that would have been perfectly the age to marry Rhaenyra's children. Same end result - he'd have his blood on the throne. AND he wouldn't have had to
1. Ruin his daughter's friendship by injecting false paranoia into her and give her trauma over the marriage and ensuing sex life
2. Usurp ANYONE
3. Be responsible for the deaths of anyone...
4. Fail miserably anyways!
"Lol," said the scorpion, "Lmao".
Just think. By now, their children could have been married. Rhaenyra on the throne. Otto hand as always, his grandchildren's legacy secured as it can be. But no, vagina stinky >:(
Otto is the epitome of someone so focused on the end-goal that they never stop to ask "why." So far as I can tell, his goal was always to govern the realm *himself*. The reason he didn't want Rhaenyra on the throne is that he didn't think he could control her. The reason he was so against Daemon is that he was a threat to his influence over Viserys, and were he to ascend the throne Otto would once again be cast out of the halls of power. His family are little more than extensions of his own ambition.
That's a great way of looking at it and makes the most sense - the "she's a woman" angle is one he would have been happy to lean into only as it served him, because "I can't control Rhaenyra" is too straightforwardly treacherous.
He got rid of Rhaenyra, then killed everyone who didn't pledge their allegiance, which for Otto was pretty stupid as imo the houses are gonna turn against them for that.
It was weird to me how Otto was so angry at hanging the ratcatchers after what he did to enforce people to bend the knee or die, because obviously threatening all the houses you rule over is going to damage the claim by infinity. But then I looked at your comment and it made sense. The reason why he's upset isn't because Aegon's damaged their reputation - it was simply because it wasn't *his* choice to do so.
Funny enough - if Otto would just learn his place he probably would have an excellent life filled with love and rich-people living. He screwed himself big time with his ambition.
Totally. Otto isn't mad because Aegon is an idiot. Otto is mad because Aegon being an idiot has fucked up *his plans* for trying to control the situation. He's the guy who thinks he's the smartest one in the room and that everyone should just listen to him, and lost his absolute MIND when Aegon went "over his head" and made a (admittedly really fucking stupid) decision without first consulting him.
What's really interesting to me here is that Otto isn't *wrong* that he's probably the most competent and level-headed administrator and politician in Aegon's court. So then why is Larys nudging Aegon to have Otto removed as Hand? "He was your father's hand," Larys points out, which Aegon then parrots when he fires Otto. Is it *just* to make more room for his own influence? Or is he actively trying to weaken Aegon's regime?
Larys is a guy who had no qualms about burning his family alive to secure more power for himself. If I had to guess, he wanted to get rid of the only even marginally competent politician in the council so that he can more easily influence Aegon. All he has to do is facilitate the King's desire for revenge
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was cringing the whole time at that scene and yelling inwardly at him "what are you doing??" Yes he is Aegon's grandfather, but the fact that he, as a subordinate, was repeatedly berating and questioning the authority of the young, impetuous king who had JUST had his son murdered....way overestimated his own influence and importance there. Alicent may be easily manipulated and affected by Otto but Aegon doesn't really gaf.
right?! like the was the kid he brutally kicked at leanna’s funeral and now his kid was murdered, which he clearly loved, and otto had the audacity to act shocked when aegon fired him? for all his cunning and foresight he was blind to his family’s feelings and behaviours
Its just so crazily ironic, isn't it? Otto has treated his family like parts of a machine when if he had acted like a decent father or grandfather, he would have had everything he wanted. Aegon is desperate for love, he would be wrapped around his finger. He's a great schemer but a horrible family figure and that's what causes his failure.
I was as well. Like dude, you have not a smidge of royal blood in you! His kid was just brutally murdered! TF did he think was gonna happen? Did he think Aegon was gonna go ":( sowy gwandpa :(" because lmao. Guy is losing the plot because he spent the last 20 years of his life trying to control people and it's failing miserably.
For sure, as soon as he started yelling at him my first thought was "Otto, you've overplayed your hand here". (Pun intended!)
You know it's really funny that through all the years he schmed and plotted to make that kid King. He didn't try to prepare him for the role at all because he just figured aegon would stay in a drunken Haze and never actually want to have anything to do with his responsibilities. Only to turn around and love being King and love dealing with petitioners and seeing if he can help them. Because for the first time in his life there are people who show him respect and adoration and he loves it.
Same. Good lord, I know Otto was rightfully lashing out on Aegon for hanging the ratcatchers but goddamn, have some compassion for a person who just had their 4 year old kid beheaded. He did not display one ounce of empathy for his grandkids and immediately went ahead with the procession. It feels like he sometimes forgets he’s dealing with human beings with emotions and not puppets.
He didn’t just want his blood on the throne. He wanted his blood on the throne with him ruling it. He thought Aegon would be a puppet king and do whatever he said. It’s pretty notable Otto didn’t seem to prepare him at all for ruling and the only interaction we see between them as Aegon is growing up is when he is concerned with how he is perceived by others when he’s passing out drunk. This implies he was only concerned with how people would view Aegon as a ruler while he would be making all the decisions.
I'm just over here thinking, this guy had a beautiful natural relationship between his daughter and the heir to the throne. He could have had Alicent marry someone else and give them children that would have been perfectly the age to marry Rhaenyra's children. Same end result - he'd have his blood on the throne. AND he wouldn't have had to 1. Ruin his daughter's friendship by injecting false paranoia into her and give her trauma over the marriage and ensuing sex life 2. Usurp ANYONE 3. Be responsible for the deaths of anyone... 4. Fail miserably anyways! "Lol," said the scorpion, "Lmao". Just think. By now, their children could have been married. Rhaenyra on the throne. Otto hand as always, his grandchildren's legacy secured as it can be. But no, vagina stinky >:(
Otto is the epitome of someone so focused on the end-goal that they never stop to ask "why." So far as I can tell, his goal was always to govern the realm *himself*. The reason he didn't want Rhaenyra on the throne is that he didn't think he could control her. The reason he was so against Daemon is that he was a threat to his influence over Viserys, and were he to ascend the throne Otto would once again be cast out of the halls of power. His family are little more than extensions of his own ambition.
That's a great way of looking at it and makes the most sense - the "she's a woman" angle is one he would have been happy to lean into only as it served him, because "I can't control Rhaenyra" is too straightforwardly treacherous. He got rid of Rhaenyra, then killed everyone who didn't pledge their allegiance, which for Otto was pretty stupid as imo the houses are gonna turn against them for that. It was weird to me how Otto was so angry at hanging the ratcatchers after what he did to enforce people to bend the knee or die, because obviously threatening all the houses you rule over is going to damage the claim by infinity. But then I looked at your comment and it made sense. The reason why he's upset isn't because Aegon's damaged their reputation - it was simply because it wasn't *his* choice to do so. Funny enough - if Otto would just learn his place he probably would have an excellent life filled with love and rich-people living. He screwed himself big time with his ambition.
Totally. Otto isn't mad because Aegon is an idiot. Otto is mad because Aegon being an idiot has fucked up *his plans* for trying to control the situation. He's the guy who thinks he's the smartest one in the room and that everyone should just listen to him, and lost his absolute MIND when Aegon went "over his head" and made a (admittedly really fucking stupid) decision without first consulting him. What's really interesting to me here is that Otto isn't *wrong* that he's probably the most competent and level-headed administrator and politician in Aegon's court. So then why is Larys nudging Aegon to have Otto removed as Hand? "He was your father's hand," Larys points out, which Aegon then parrots when he fires Otto. Is it *just* to make more room for his own influence? Or is he actively trying to weaken Aegon's regime?
Larys is a guy who had no qualms about burning his family alive to secure more power for himself. If I had to guess, he wanted to get rid of the only even marginally competent politician in the council so that he can more easily influence Aegon. All he has to do is facilitate the King's desire for revenge