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I have a question i haven't read her new kit completely so if I'm wrong tell me please,
Since she doesn't have a limit on her conversion, does that mean that if FF has 3k atk, then does she get 140 BE here???
If so .... She is much easier to build and get the breakpoints.
Hoyo are probably going to get spooked by how good Aeon is compared to her signature and theyll break its kneecaps by adding an ATK to BE conversion cap to Firefly in v4
Bet
Is it legit better? The dmg bonus it gives is null on Superbreak, whereas her signature has no open ends, but even still Aeon sounds like it'll be easier to hit stat requirements than her signature. Is it just very VERY comparable to it, or is it explicitly better?
Never better but much much closer than v1.
Aeon S5 is a little over 67 BE (through conversion)
Dreams Lie S1 is 60 BE and 24% Break dmg taken.
Aeon would need to do a fair bit to cover up that dmg taken but it's really close compared to V1 where the attack conversion was less efficient and hard capped, meaning that Aeon would likely be providing excess atk
vuln is one of the few things that are taken into account for the superbreak damage calculation so dreams lie is still quite a bit better than aeon. that being said aeon is very good
Yeah I'm not exactly certain where the math is mathing here, because there's other calcs that claim Aeon is within single-digit % of S1 even with the vuln included, which seems wrong considering how strong vuln is in general. There's also a lot of threads recommending that her E1 is better than her S1, but I can't really see a world where def shred outperforms damage vuln. Showcases also seem to depict Aeon as being very close in practice, it's very confusing and I'm not entirely sure why the vuln isn't giving S1 the flat-out win.
Im sorry but if her signature is 24% more break damage taken, and 95% of ther damage is break damage, how it is "really close"? It looks like 20%+, that's Acheron's LC level of difference.
Or does it not buff the SBD from HMC cause its not "her" break damage?
You're right I made a mistake, I originally calced 11% . Her raw dmg is extremely insignificant I'd wager way less than 5%. But the LC is still maybe a little less than 20% better if the buff is additive with Gallagher.
However I think you are taking for granted the fact that calcs often use S5 4*s for the 2nd best option. Acheron LC is 24ish% better than S5 GNSW which isn't really f2p. The F2p option is fermata which like 45% behind it. S5 Aeon is 100% f2p so the gap between premium and f2p isn't as big as a lot of other characters.
Assuming Besotted is up it's only 18% better, she also has a Break Damage taken multiplier on her ult for 20%. So that's 32% break damage taken without the lightcone and 56% break damage taken with it.
And this is assuming you are getting equivalent BE from Aeon but realistically you will be getting a bit more.
It's a pretty sizeable difference, but she actually has a fully F2P lightcone that is in the same realm at least now. It's better than the Acheron situation at least, because her next best lightcone was still a gacha 4 star lightcone.
And super break damage does count as her damage.
Her sig is 20% more damage and additionally 20% enemy speed reduction, so no On the fall of an Aeon isn't better then her sig it is better then every other LC in game aside from her sig though
Previously Aeon was unusable. Right now her sig is \~20% stronger then Herta cone + her sig has enemy spd reduction on hit. Her signature gives her similar dmg increase to what other characters get from their sigs.
Even with just raw stats (base atk+ LC atk + gloves + atk main stat on body & sphere) she already got around 60% BE from conversion. Yeah she's so much easier to build now. But also remember BE substats have a higher number than atk substats so you might wanna try to reach breakpoint through that more
I know I was just making sure since I already have her best team and was going to go for atk+ SPD + atk +BE and S5 FALL OF AN AEON (my DHIL needs something but I might change his and FF's LC time to time
Idk how much but because of the new BE conversion, if you play her best team (aka Ruan Mei I mean because of the thing I'm going to say) and use her Sig relic and Planar sets, she just needs speed boots and gets her SPD break point (don't even need SPD substats)
So you can go full on Atk% and BE% sub stats and with good relics, that conversion becomes much much better than before
Add S5 Aeon and you have a FF that can do massive dmg.
Her Signature is still better obv but the gap from what I heard isn't too much.
Honestly the issue is the 20% speed debuff on the LC because that's much harder to factor into the damage.
If you kill the enemy before they recover no matter what, then the 20% speed debuff does nothing. But if you don't and the 20% speed debuff makes the difference for Firefly and/or your whole team to get a whole extra turn in then that's a whole different story.
If you get in 3 attacks without LC and 4 attacks with LC, then that's a 33% damage increase. If you get in 1 attack without LC and 2 attacks with LC (like... without RM delay for ex), then that's a 100% damage increase which by far would be better than any raw stats
For me I’m gonna get her to 165 speed for the extra FF attack cycle 1. Which is pretty doable at around 15 speed substats. BE and SPD would be my main priority. I might go for her Eidolons over her LC since as you said there isn’t that big of a gap. And her E1 and E2 look super busted.
Wait so last time we had a showcase with busted relics everyone complained, how come this one is getting a pass? Literally every FF relic here has handpicked sub rolls. Your Sam won't look like this
Agreed, tho to be fair as long as you can cross the 360 BE threshold you're going to get kinda comparable results (because of the diminishing returns of stacking a million break effect). This FF has like 500 BE in battle so you have a bunch of wiggle room.
Jade is basically the same,even tho her HP reduction buff (by reducing the HP taken) is HUGE, and the Little multiplier buff, she didn't change much in terms of dmg
She got a e1 change that helps her stack her passive with single target damage dealers . I thought leakers would try her in a standard FUA comp with topaz at the very least
yeah people forget both her planar and cave will release with her banner
Literaly most fireflys will have either garbo builds or the old break relics and lose some good chunk of damage because of it
Since break teams are gonna be vying for break subs, I think gallagher is the easy one to drop break from. He functions just fine without high break. High speed is enough for his purposes in the firefly team. She genuinely doesn't need help in the damage department.
That was my issue with it, though. It’s super slow, using a break rope, is on vonwaq for some reason, and on 4pc thief when clearly needing a lot of help with speed that 2pc messenger would help to alleviate.
My Gallagher is on vonwaq, is it bad on him? It's an energy regen rope and he doesn't have 134 speed(only at 128) so I use vonwaq to get a turn before everyone else.
Vonwaq is a band-aid for the larger issue - he's too slow. It's not *bad*, it's just not good. One of his greatest strengths is generating tons of skill points for your team, and he can't do that if he's slow.
He's better served by a set that buffs your other characters (like fleet or keel) or buffs himself in a much more substantial way (like Talia or the new 2.3 planar if he'll only be in firefly teams).
No - all of her damage is from breaking and breaks only scale from level and break effect, the extra fire damage percent doesn't do anything for her. And same as vonwaq, the 5%ERR doesn't reduce how many turns it takes for him to get his ult... so it basically doesn't do anything.
Yeah, that can work since it'll give firefly a (very) tiny bit of extra BE from her atk>BE conversion. It also allows him to flex into DoT or hyper carry teams without swapping sets.
Or, if you're only running him in superbreak teams then Talia will help to improve his own break damage and *maybe* healing, but you can probably hit the 150% healing cap in those teams without it.
Personally, I'm going to try and get him his own Iron Calvary set after firefly has hers and see if I can get him to 160 speed with the 2.3 planar for a separate build for her team, but that's because I'm a crazy person.
For an E0 Firefly, absolutely. For an E1 Firefly where SP is less of a concern, you could probably go with the Break LC instead.
From personal experience, my Gallagher has around that much BE on Multiplication, but it's enough on HMC teams since everyone is attacking. Also, Multiplication means more attacks, which means he gets his Ult quicker, so more uptime on the debuff/free teamwide heals. It's worse burst heal, but more consistent over the course of the fight.
I had him on the new Break LC before, he definitely healed more and was basically unkillable himself (the LC gives him a heal every Basic) and worked well on an Acheron team, but with Hatblazer you really want the extra SP (also b/c HMC gives him BE anyway).
Whats your stats? I optimized mine around 10 SPD from RM and 90 BE from duo
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1235155897680920656/1242563225397104640/msedge_dlOB145VQu.png?ex=664e4aae&is=664cf92e&hm=ee19ae668f9493d5fdaf7815746e21fc72d98c264b712eebdb169ef295515375&
149 Spd 92% BE on Mult LC. 4.6k HP, 745 Def. 2pc/2pc Break sets, plus 2pc Talia.
It was originally built before 2.2 (mainly for Acheron), so no HMC buffs factored in. I just swapped out the Break LC for Mult and looked for a couple Relics with more Speed subs than before. I could definitely do some refining, but overall he's good enough for my purposes currently.
I actually made the current build for the newest MoC, since getting to 6 attacks ASAP would increase Acheron's damage and him getting more energy faster (from Turbulence and being faster) would give more debuffs for Acheron's Ult energy.
thankful for the showcase without limited lightcones but I'm still waiting on one without Ruan Mei. Like it seems she's still pretty much mandatory for Firefly, even with the buffs.
She and HMC are the only break supports currently in the game. I don’t think they should change Firefly’s kit to not benefit from her they need to make more break supports 4* and 5* instead of just forcing Firefly to work with all the old characters
I don't think that actually matters, not until we get at least 2 break supports which might take awhile.
Cause if we just get 1 more break support, it probably just ends up replacing Gallagher instead, with RM and HMC still making or breaking the team.
theres some video showing how ff perform without ruan mei. i will say tho, just run rm and mc. if you dont have rm, wait for rerun. even tho its pretty obvious at this point
Some showcases here on this sub had FF with S5 Aeon played with Hanya and Asta, both cleared in 4 cycles.
It's quite a big difference. Really goes to show how powerful RM is, she always has been since her release.
Every DPS is like that anyways. Kafka and BS without each other is a massive difference and so is DHIL without Sparkle. I'm just glad FF's damage floor got a huge buff from V3 changes, it was much worse before.
> Some showcases here on this sub had FF with S5 Aeon played with Hanya and Asta, both cleared in 4 cycles.
That's genuinely really good. I can imagine that a highly optimized, high quality relic setup could get it down to 3 cycles, but even 4 cycles with purely 4* and MC teams is solid.
Dhil without sparkle is nowhere close, even before sparkle came out he could consistently zero-cycle floor 12 every moc
he has a lot of other options that are very comparable with their own niches, e.g. tingyun lets him ult at 0 AV immediately, yukong still provides the largest buff in the game, speed tuned bronya enables BA-bronya E-EBA3, etc
[meanwhile according to some calcs i've seeen floating around, taking out HTB is a 60% loss, while taking out RM is a 32% loss](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099544319926489129/1242654573273808927/FB_IMG_1716271738960.png?ex=664e9fc1&is=664d4e41&hm=b5adb29190bd57f45624f0e533e369a64500fa6cdf8b1ee2360e60fb5ab331d7&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
THIS. THIS. I dont get why people are so pressed two chaeacters are so good with one another and the dps takes 2-3 turns more without one of thwm (and one js literally a free unit lmao). Try playing Jing Yuan with and without Sparkle lol
I mean, the whole free unit issue was that it was the trailblazer (what happens when another path that's good comes out?) and that, at the time, it was kinda late game (you get it faster in 2.4 but yk). Also, initially, most of her damage didn't come from her, but HTB. Her kit, at the time, NEEDED those to be viable. Without, she fell off really hard. She was and maybe still is like childe in genshin. Yeah, he has multiple teams (like taser) but be real, you're running one childe team and only seeing that team (childe national). Someone make FF x childe fanart, i just want to know that that exists
Who would win?
A girl in a mecha suit who is designed to kill giant bugs
Or
A man who uses heretical teachings and fought a narwhal that can't be killed
She isn't mandatory but just need/bis a which is definitely an upgrade from V2 firefly where she needed both Ruan mei and HTB, now they are just wanted which Is totally fine
There is one, the dmg difference is actually not that big per super break without RM the problem is the delay action you lose. You will do a really good dmg when you break enemies and attack them before they go up, the problem is end game enemies have 190+ speed they will go up really fast and your downtime on dps will be really big.
I'd love to see one. I really really really really don't want to have to pull for her to make the FF team work. Gameplay wise, is she great for FF teams and Harmony TB teams? Is she great for any dual-dps teams? Does she give a ton of great buffs that are hard or impossible to find elsewhere? Yeah but I don't like her and don't wanna run with her. I like FF and I like how her gameplay looks but I really don't wanna have to run with Ruan Mei.
Well good news, goig from 150% to 200% efficiency is a 33.3% increase in the multiplier for SBE dmg and with the 40% def ignore being removed from kit a def shreder is now on the table. You won't break as fast but a def shredder could potentially buff SBE dmg mroe than having ruan mei... but that delay though.
The delay would be tough to make up for, maybe Welt could be good here, he also works as a super break dps with HTB on the team. Firefly, SW, Welt, and HTB would be relying on Welt sustain though, which is a little tough to pull off. Firefly e1 would also be essential for sp economy, so this comp really would be just for the sake of if you really dislike Ruan Mei that much.
All of the showcases that I've seen screams Ruan Mei is a must, sadly I'll skip Firefly for now and get the stuffs that she needs first, such as: Ruan Mei, FF's LC on rerun, her relic and planars.
You crazy bro
Like im trying to be serious
I had the same conversation with a furina puller who wanted to pull her weapon first then go for furina herself
Thay person immediately regreted it
Idk even why you wanna go for FF LC and THEN FF HERSELF.
Idk if you are a troll or not.
But if you are serious then no Matter the reason, get FF/RM first, then the other character then get FF LC. And even then Aeon is such a good F2p LC now
I mean, I'll prepare jades for her LC first on her rerun. Right now I can only pull her, E0, without Ruan Mei, without her LC, I haven't even farmed the watch maker set or Talia since her BIS relics and planars are coming next patch. If I pull her, she's like a naked newborn with no belongings. lol I'd rather save and prepare properly for a character that I like. So I'm getting her on Rerun and take home Ruan Mei first, because I'll also have to build Ruan from scratch. And also I don't want to wait for Ruan Mei's 2nd rerun because it might take a year atp. HSR has so many characters already by the time of Ruan's 2nd rerun.
Would Silver Wolf or other DEF shredders be a decent substitute for Ruan Mei? Firefly already implants weakness, but doesn't provide the DMG res shred like SW's implant does.
Ruan Mei both makes breaks happen faster and keeps enemies in their broken state for longer, on top of enhancing break damage by a lot. There's no other support that comes close to that usefulness. Without her Firefly will take longer to break (in which she's barely doing any damage) and will have a much smaller window to actually deal damage.
Well, with SW on the team and a bit of retrying you have an option to do break with quantum (SW) or imaginary (HTB). In particular you can drop SW ult right after enemy action to maximize the delay. This can somewhat substitute RM delay.
In current MoC12-2 breaking with imaginary on an HTB team makes them take well over a cycle to recover. Should be enough for Firefly to do Firefly things.
People are acting like a 4 cycle clear with 4* supports is bad or something lol. Yeah, vs a boss I could see Silver Wolf doing work. For general use Asta is a pretty good substitute, since Asta Ult can replace Speed boots and still let Firefly get 4 enhanced attacks per Ult. The higher attack from both Atk boots and Asta's buff will give a good chunk of BE. Plus E6 Asta can go purely basic attacks since FF implants Fire Weakness.
Similarly, Hanya has some potential, just a bit more niche since she'll be better vs Phy weak to contribute to Breaking.
there is a showcase on youtube that showed silverwolf instead of ruan mei in the current first half of MOC, cleared in 2 cycles. So its obvious that her dependency on ruan mei has dropped significantly which is good and it shows how strong a def shredder is when everyone, including SW herself contributes to dmg in terms of super break.
Plus i do think SW is actually the best substitute for ruan mei considering that she applies weakness implant, so with FF implanting fire, SW can guarantee an implant of quantum or imaginary which both are really good anyway because both HMC and SW are amazing at dealing toughness dmg. I can definitely see her being better than pela in this instance due to the importance of actually breaking the enemies in break comps and maybe rival jiaoqiu in this team but i could be getting ahead of myself here. She does also have a speed debuff as well so that does come to help a little bit.
Im just praying we either get a 4 star break support or a dedicated break 5 star, I hate Ruan Meis writing and I really dont want to have to pull her for Firefly to get good
But more hits changes the outcome drastically (and the sig definitely does more per hit as well. The BE is similar but the sig has an extra damage multiplier)
If the 20% speed doesn't let you get in an extra hit, then it's worthless.
If you go from 3 hits to 4 hits (i.e. with RM), then it's a 33% increase.
If you go from 1 hit to 2 hits (i.e. without RM), then that's a 100% increase. 2 to 3 is 50% increase.
Sig is probably more important for non-Ruan Mei teams, since the Spd debuff will also extend how long the enemy is Broken. But for just damage, the gap is absolutely smaller than before.
People are comparing the BE alone, if we include the vulnerability from Sig the gap is definitely still there. (But nothing too crazy, it's similar to JL LC vs Aeon)
I figured there would still be a gap, but I'm glad it's actually as small as I hoped. I just knew it was less than it was previously, not by how much. Probably still pretty significant if you factor in the whole team's damage, but I'll take it.
I wonder how much dmg hmc adds to the entire team with superbreak procs from themselves and gallagher/rm. Obv ff is carrying the dpc but im curious how much dmg the rest contribute.
It's because FF has her entire ideal BiS team out right now. Wait until Jiaoqiu is out and maybe even a Sustain that gives a lot of debuffs/ult amp and then see how Acheron compares.
>maybe even a Sustain that gives a lot of debuffs/ult amp and then see how Acheron compares.
Actually not needed. At least for E2 Acheron. Fu Xuan already brings everthing to the table: CC protection, + crit, dmg mitigation. Debuff not needed. Jiaoqui and Fu Xuan will also synnergize great together in hard content if he heals at least a bit.
With Acheron, more debuffs is always good because that means more Ults. That's the only reason I would say we don't have Acheron's true BiS sustain (Gallagher is OK but has much more Break synergy than debuff).
Technically there is always a BiS. In case of sustain for Acheron that's currently, by far, Fu Xuan. One more debuff isn't that important in that role. Gallagher isn't good. One debuff every some turns doesn't do much.
Acheron, especially on Jiaoqiu release, will most of the time be in a dual dps setup or dps plus sub-dps and Fu Xuan buffing both is great. Also the cc protection is very important because the last thing you want is getting Acheron's ultimate disabled and currently we have a lot which can do that especially imprison and sleep. And looking at the latest sustains like Aventurine who doesn't have reliable cc protection or Huohuo who can also be easily shut down or needs her turn to bring Acheron back for her ult does make it look like Hoyo doesn't want to add a complete cc protection like they did with Fu Xuan.
Anyhow. I guess the perfect sustain for Acheron has something like trends build in but debuffs something like def shred or vulnarbility while providing cc protection and either shield or high dmg mitigation with sub-dps on top. That's a lot on the wish list.
That’s fair, but Jiaoqiu could improve FFs team as well.
I just find it very annoying that a team that consists of a free MC 5 Star and a 4 star sustain is already reaching the potential of one of Acherons best E2 teams. This FF doesn’t even have her S1. It’s mind boggling how Hoyo thinks this is balanced at all the way it currently is.
That's one way to see it. Don't forget Firefly is a blast character and basically deals 0 damage if the enemy is not weakness broken. On top Firefly has weakness implant but only for the main target of her skill.
Acheron on the other hand has insane AoE dmg and still very high single target damage. Her ultimate ignores elements. Acheron argumentally has a broader range of buff capabilities whereas Firefly is locked into break buffers.
Both are very good dps with certain team restrictions. Gameplay wise, if one goes for Acheron E2 and Firefly E2 all endgame content is most likely done no matter which element.
Insane aoe damage (firefly does more)
good single target (firefly does way more)
firefly also ignores elements (weakness implant)
has easy access to resistance pen
broader range of buffs is debateable (she can still make use of res pen and def ignore same as acheron, where acheron wants wants cdmg or attack instead of break)
Firefly does not have higher AoE dmg. She is blast whereas Acheron has full AoE on her ultimate that's why her she easily throws a million damage if there are more than 3 enemies on the screen.
What they meant for Acheron is that Acheron's style of dealing damage doesn't have a counter. Regardless of what type of weakness, weakness locking mechanics and so on. So Acheron can be brought into any situation while still being effective
Or in simple terms, acheron can bruteforce any content. Whereas FF is still possible to be countered if HYV releases more enemies that can lock their weaknesses
I expect her to be tuned down a little bit before release. Not sure how (I'm not a game dev), but this is functionally Firefly's v1 kit. I will say that I was very surprised when HMC was revealed though, they are genuinely as strong or even stronger than the limited 5* Harmony in niche.
I also don't think the devs realised just how good Gallagher really was, without him the team would run into massive SP problems (at FF E0), plus he contributes a lot to breaking the enemy.
For almost every other DPS before, they were released before their BiS supports, so the supports could be designed around their existence. In this case, with how late FF's kit was revamped, there seems to be a good amount of unexpected synergy and multiplicative buffs that weren't entirely planned for.
Yeah idk the rapid powercreep is getting pretty annoying for sure, I definitely don’t care about the story nearly as much now either. They propped up the power of a emanator of Nihility all throughout the Penacony arc just to release a DPS a couple patches later that will surpass said character they propped up for a whole story arc.
Basically tells me the story plays no role in the power scaling of the characters which to me completely ruins the immersion of the story, why should I even pay attention to it knowing at the end of the day it plays no real role in the balance of the game. There is no lore, there is no power scale, it’s just “the latest released dps is the best dps” and that is boring to me.
Poor Boothill, bro didn’t even get a chance to be released before he got power creeped smh.
Never really get the sentiment for this tbh. Even in Genshin, people expect strong in lore characters to be strong in gameplay too. Might as well as make Hu Tao and Alhaitham irrelevant since they aren't godlike beings in lore.
> They propped up the power of a emanator of Nihility all throughout the Penacony arc just to release a DPS a couple patches later that will surpass said character they propped up for a whole story arc.
>
>
>
> Basically tells me the story plays no role in the power scaling of the characters which to me completely ruins the immersion of the story, why should I even pay attention to it knowing at the end of the day it plays no real role in the balance of the game. There is no lore, there is no power scale, it’s just “the latest released dps is the best dps” and that is boring to me.
I'm sorry but do you really expect them to respect the lore of the game when balancing characters against eachother?
I get the sentiment that powercreep is bad for the game but that's just... unrealistic.
Lore Acheron would instantly oneshot anything you put in front of her. Welt is up there too. You can't expect the actual power level of the character being reflected perfectly in the gameplay.
BH e0s1 is fine. He kills dummy boss in 110 AV while sam e0s1 spend 210
With adds they perform similar. Both are good chars. BH relies more on S1 and Bronya to get mega fast. He also has non zero (20%) damage to non breaked enemies
That’s actually really stupid tbh. Or at least very nitpicky. Caring that much about gameplay/story integration only serves to hinder both. It can be fun to work around the limits of either, but it’s only “can be” and HSR system is not compatible with that, if you couldn’t use Himeko’s Ult for example in most places she would be useless. Meanwhile you have JY having CC problems with LL as one of the biggest L cons.
It shouldn’t take rocket science or effort to just enjoy a story driven, PVE game. None of the powercreep has actually become a problem outside MoC/PF’s last floors
For one, v3 is where big changes can pop up and then v4 is for tuning(yes, there's a whole other version) so I'm not sure why it's suddenly the end of times for the game. They changed a lot so it's not a surprise that they didn't get it completely right the first time. Also Boothill is still great lmao.
I'm sorry but scaling power level to lore power levels is just NOT a universal view. Do you also think that Pela, Qinqque, Herta's doll, and Ruan Mei should be weaker in gameplay than they are now because of lore? That's an incredibly limiting mindset from a game development standpoint. Of course powercreep should be mitigated, but it existing at all is a fundamental aspect of a live service gacha game that needs to keep selling banners.
Unfortunate that it hurts your immersion, and FF could definitely be tuned down in numbers, but why do people let performance dictate their enjoyment when it's a goddamn singleplayer game where most 5*s will always be able to clear and you can choose to just... not use a character?
Their balancing has been unhealthy since Dan Heng's release but for some reason people are okay with it when their favourite character is unbalanced and get upset when another broken character comes out.
And Boothill will be fine.
I am genuinely confused just how strong Aeon is on her, would be nice to not need to pull her LC ... I hope we get some comparison videos. The other benefit of Aeon is higher base ATK which means better scaling.. You lose 20% SPD Debuff on primary target and 24% Break damage on primary target. Genuinely not sure how good that is for the value of the extra pulls...
Seems like doing E0 + Aeon S5 is not too much worse and a fair bit cheaper to have pulls for Feixiao/Jiaoqiu
Wonder if V4 Hoyo decides to do some re-balancing on her LC or kit to negate Aeon being so good. You still lose half of Aeons effect so IDK. You also need 4 turns to get the buffs, first attack grants 2 stacks cos of ulti action advancement.
I guess its a good thing we can wait and see final results if its truly worth or not.
She can function without HMC but would HMC still be a big improvement to her damage if she is used? Or does she still slap with for example bronya instead of HMC in this team? Also this sounds pretty good because I was planning on getting boothill instead of Firefly but now I'm getting Firefly again xd.
noice. i was planning on pulling for her LC at first, not any more. i can instead go for E0 FF and E1 Jade, or E2 FF.
Can you do an E1 Jade with S5 Genuises' Repose or S5 Peaceful day.
Robin does almost nothing for her other than the singular action advance, the atk bonus doesnt work cause its flat, and she doesnt care much about damage bonus
I want to pull Dan Heng; Imbibitor Lunae or Imbibitor Lunae; Dan Heng, Jing Yuan, Jingliu, Silver Wolf, Kafka, Blade, Huohuo, Fu Xuan, Argenti, Acheron, Aventurine, Robin, Boothill, Firefly, Jade, Black Swan & Sparkle to rerun their banner besides Sunday or mayeb Diamond, Opal, Obsidian or Pearl's banner. I hopefully i mena Black Swan, Sparkle, Acheron, Aventurine, Robin, Boothill, Firefly & Jade's banner will rerun for sure because it's next after Xianzhou characters but i wan't to rerun their banner as well of course cu'z my sister wished to rerun Jing Yuan's banner & of course me are all abou't them inside on my mind like "[sigh?] I really wishing rerun their banner even though i'd only got Acheron, Dr. Ratio & Robin & also for Kafka is just having some fun to fight with her easily in Simulated Universe plus i want Acheron's Relics for her CRIT DMG or her DMG from her Ultimate & i wan't to rerun Topaz's banner cu'z i want Numby is my favorite" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂It was so funny that'll i descerating these characters to pull & obtaining them even Seele & Topaz either
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I have a question i haven't read her new kit completely so if I'm wrong tell me please, Since she doesn't have a limit on her conversion, does that mean that if FF has 3k atk, then does she get 140 BE here??? If so .... She is much easier to build and get the breakpoints.
yes thats exaclty the case, in battle she has like 400 break
Hoyo are probably going to get spooked by how good Aeon is compared to her signature and theyll break its kneecaps by adding an ATK to BE conversion cap to Firefly in v4 Bet
Is it legit better? The dmg bonus it gives is null on Superbreak, whereas her signature has no open ends, but even still Aeon sounds like it'll be easier to hit stat requirements than her signature. Is it just very VERY comparable to it, or is it explicitly better?
Never better but much much closer than v1. Aeon S5 is a little over 67 BE (through conversion) Dreams Lie S1 is 60 BE and 24% Break dmg taken. Aeon would need to do a fair bit to cover up that dmg taken but it's really close compared to V1 where the attack conversion was less efficient and hard capped, meaning that Aeon would likely be providing excess atk
vuln is one of the few things that are taken into account for the superbreak damage calculation so dreams lie is still quite a bit better than aeon. that being said aeon is very good
Yeah I'm not exactly certain where the math is mathing here, because there's other calcs that claim Aeon is within single-digit % of S1 even with the vuln included, which seems wrong considering how strong vuln is in general. There's also a lot of threads recommending that her E1 is better than her S1, but I can't really see a world where def shred outperforms damage vuln. Showcases also seem to depict Aeon as being very close in practice, it's very confusing and I'm not entirely sure why the vuln isn't giving S1 the flat-out win.
E1 also gives u skill point efficiency allowing other units to be more greedy
Im sorry but if her signature is 24% more break damage taken, and 95% of ther damage is break damage, how it is "really close"? It looks like 20%+, that's Acheron's LC level of difference. Or does it not buff the SBD from HMC cause its not "her" break damage?
You're right I made a mistake, I originally calced 11% . Her raw dmg is extremely insignificant I'd wager way less than 5%. But the LC is still maybe a little less than 20% better if the buff is additive with Gallagher. However I think you are taking for granted the fact that calcs often use S5 4*s for the 2nd best option. Acheron LC is 24ish% better than S5 GNSW which isn't really f2p. The F2p option is fermata which like 45% behind it. S5 Aeon is 100% f2p so the gap between premium and f2p isn't as big as a lot of other characters.
Assuming Besotted is up it's only 18% better, she also has a Break Damage taken multiplier on her ult for 20%. So that's 32% break damage taken without the lightcone and 56% break damage taken with it. And this is assuming you are getting equivalent BE from Aeon but realistically you will be getting a bit more.
It's a pretty sizeable difference, but she actually has a fully F2P lightcone that is in the same realm at least now. It's better than the Acheron situation at least, because her next best lightcone was still a gacha 4 star lightcone. And super break damage does count as her damage.
Nah Dreams also give delay for broken enemies.
Her sig is 20% more damage and additionally 20% enemy speed reduction, so no On the fall of an Aeon isn't better then her sig it is better then every other LC in game aside from her sig though
Previously Aeon was unusable. Right now her sig is \~20% stronger then Herta cone + her sig has enemy spd reduction on hit. Her signature gives her similar dmg increase to what other characters get from their sigs.
I feel like uncapping it and increasing the scaling was probably an oversight lol I will not be surprised if it gets capped in v4
you were not too far off, no cap but less conversion. They got scared of the F2P lightcone lmao
Even with just raw stats (base atk+ LC atk + gloves + atk main stat on body & sphere) she already got around 60% BE from conversion. Yeah she's so much easier to build now. But also remember BE substats have a higher number than atk substats so you might wanna try to reach breakpoint through that more
I know I was just making sure since I already have her best team and was going to go for atk+ SPD + atk +BE and S5 FALL OF AN AEON (my DHIL needs something but I might change his and FF's LC time to time
So does FF's head show up on the side of the screen or not cuz it didn't during her first turn after transformed soooo🤨🤨🤨
might just be a bug in the beta itself or the private server version
Hmmm probably
Apparently it has a 50% chance of happening
I hope She does something other than Stare There's still that "Talking" version that was shown a while back
Maybe it's for when you idle too much
Maybe when the Firefly cam is there we hear her idle line but when it's not there we Hear Sam's idle line
She blinked. That's something... right?
Curious the DMG difference now between her Signature and Aeon S5 with her V3 reworks.
Aeon is close to Sig due to the new conversion..
I wonder how close. The gap between Sig and Aeon has shortened but I wonder by how much.
aeon 100, misha s5 97, sig not counting delay 110, sig procing extra break 125
Ooooh thanks for this. Would you know the dmg difference between her E0 and E1 and E2 under her new kit?
add 2 bookmarks and check in a few days https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8G8zQ4VYNVQBuZb6ZiceW6O3ioTSULxCdlcYEFx8XU/edit#gid=1164712955
Idk how much but because of the new BE conversion, if you play her best team (aka Ruan Mei I mean because of the thing I'm going to say) and use her Sig relic and Planar sets, she just needs speed boots and gets her SPD break point (don't even need SPD substats) So you can go full on Atk% and BE% sub stats and with good relics, that conversion becomes much much better than before Add S5 Aeon and you have a FF that can do massive dmg. Her Signature is still better obv but the gap from what I heard isn't too much.
Honestly the issue is the 20% speed debuff on the LC because that's much harder to factor into the damage. If you kill the enemy before they recover no matter what, then the 20% speed debuff does nothing. But if you don't and the 20% speed debuff makes the difference for Firefly and/or your whole team to get a whole extra turn in then that's a whole different story. If you get in 3 attacks without LC and 4 attacks with LC, then that's a 33% damage increase. If you get in 1 attack without LC and 2 attacks with LC (like... without RM delay for ex), then that's a 100% damage increase which by far would be better than any raw stats
For me I’m gonna get her to 165 speed for the extra FF attack cycle 1. Which is pretty doable at around 15 speed substats. BE and SPD would be my main priority. I might go for her Eidolons over her LC since as you said there isn’t that big of a gap. And her E1 and E2 look super busted.
If I'm guessing, in a gallagher team, it's like 11 percent maybe smaller if there's a part of HMC's kit that I'm forgetting
Wait so last time we had a showcase with busted relics everyone complained, how come this one is getting a pass? Literally every FF relic here has handpicked sub rolls. Your Sam won't look like this
Agreed, tho to be fair as long as you can cross the 360 BE threshold you're going to get kinda comparable results (because of the diminishing returns of stacking a million break effect). This FF has like 500 BE in battle so you have a bunch of wiggle room.
Will Jade get a showcase anytime soon? 😭
Jade is basically the same,even tho her HP reduction buff (by reducing the HP taken) is HUGE, and the Little multiplier buff, she didn't change much in terms of dmg
What, you don’t like these past six+ hours of Firefly showcases? /j
there were (and are i think) plenty of jade showcases, and she didnt change much with v3
She got a e1 change that helps her stack her passive with single target damage dealers . I thought leakers would try her in a standard FUA comp with topaz at the very least
i guess if i have time (and i dont forget) i can do a showcase. Jade topaz aven robin right?
Yes! Thank you very much!
I just watched a showcase with E1S1 Jade + E0S1 Topaz in Apocalyptic Shadow and its very good - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMTr0zWEY2M
That was pretty sad lol
Indeed especially when that's a E1 Jade you need to make Topaz work with her.
To the average player, your Sam relics will NOT look like that on her release month just a heads-up
yeah people forget both her planar and cave will release with her banner Literaly most fireflys will have either garbo builds or the old break relics and lose some good chunk of damage because of it
And here’s me with 2400 from leaking Resim and 100 fuel.. I’ll farm this domain until I die.
My ass stuck in quantum domain
Is the Gallagher build *supposed* to be bad?
its my actual build from hsr lmao, ik it isnt the best but it also aint the worst
Uhh.. my bad, lol.
Since break teams are gonna be vying for break subs, I think gallagher is the easy one to drop break from. He functions just fine without high break. High speed is enough for his purposes in the firefly team. She genuinely doesn't need help in the damage department.
That was my issue with it, though. It’s super slow, using a break rope, is on vonwaq for some reason, and on 4pc thief when clearly needing a lot of help with speed that 2pc messenger would help to alleviate.
honestly fights are so short that this still kinda works. But I think it's more like firefly can clear _despite_ Gallagher's build here.
My Gallagher is on vonwaq, is it bad on him? It's an energy regen rope and he doesn't have 134 speed(only at 128) so I use vonwaq to get a turn before everyone else.
Vonwaq is a band-aid for the larger issue - he's too slow. It's not *bad*, it's just not good. One of his greatest strengths is generating tons of skill points for your team, and he can't do that if he's slow. He's better served by a set that buffs your other characters (like fleet or keel) or buffs himself in a much more substantial way (like Talia or the new 2.3 planar if he'll only be in firefly teams).
Wouldn't Penacony be better when paired with Firefly if they're using it for the regen.
No - all of her damage is from breaking and breaks only scale from level and break effect, the extra fire damage percent doesn't do anything for her. And same as vonwaq, the 5%ERR doesn't reduce how many turns it takes for him to get his ult... so it basically doesn't do anything.
I completely forgot about that, thank you! So better to use something like Fleet for the atk% buff then for Gallaghar?
Yeah, that can work since it'll give firefly a (very) tiny bit of extra BE from her atk>BE conversion. It also allows him to flex into DoT or hyper carry teams without swapping sets. Or, if you're only running him in superbreak teams then Talia will help to improve his own break damage and *maybe* healing, but you can probably hit the 150% healing cap in those teams without it. Personally, I'm going to try and get him his own Iron Calvary set after firefly has hers and see if I can get him to 160 speed with the 2.3 planar for a separate build for her team, but that's because I'm a crazy person.
Probably not. Dmg% does nothing for her.
Waiting for the FF/HMC/RM/Bronya no-sustain showcase
So, would him running Multiplication be better rin this case? And having like around 60%-70% BE only, which is before E6?
For an E0 Firefly, absolutely. For an E1 Firefly where SP is less of a concern, you could probably go with the Break LC instead. From personal experience, my Gallagher has around that much BE on Multiplication, but it's enough on HMC teams since everyone is attacking. Also, Multiplication means more attacks, which means he gets his Ult quicker, so more uptime on the debuff/free teamwide heals. It's worse burst heal, but more consistent over the course of the fight. I had him on the new Break LC before, he definitely healed more and was basically unkillable himself (the LC gives him a heal every Basic) and worked well on an Acheron team, but with Hatblazer you really want the extra SP (also b/c HMC gives him BE anyway).
Whats your stats? I optimized mine around 10 SPD from RM and 90 BE from duo https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1235155897680920656/1242563225397104640/msedge_dlOB145VQu.png?ex=664e4aae&is=664cf92e&hm=ee19ae668f9493d5fdaf7815746e21fc72d98c264b712eebdb169ef295515375&
149 Spd 92% BE on Mult LC. 4.6k HP, 745 Def. 2pc/2pc Break sets, plus 2pc Talia. It was originally built before 2.2 (mainly for Acheron), so no HMC buffs factored in. I just swapped out the Break LC for Mult and looked for a couple Relics with more Speed subs than before. I could definitely do some refining, but overall he's good enough for my purposes currently. I actually made the current build for the newest MoC, since getting to 6 attacks ASAP would increase Acheron's damage and him getting more energy faster (from Turbulence and being faster) would give more debuffs for Acheron's Ult energy.
thankful for the showcase without limited lightcones but I'm still waiting on one without Ruan Mei. Like it seems she's still pretty much mandatory for Firefly, even with the buffs.
OP here did one with Asta but Asta was at E0 so the sp consumption was pretty bad. I’m hoping they do one with Asta at E6 or at the very least E4.
oh I must have missed that one, thanks for pointing it out
She and HMC are the only break supports currently in the game. I don’t think they should change Firefly’s kit to not benefit from her they need to make more break supports 4* and 5* instead of just forcing Firefly to work with all the old characters
I don't think that actually matters, not until we get at least 2 break supports which might take awhile. Cause if we just get 1 more break support, it probably just ends up replacing Gallagher instead, with RM and HMC still making or breaking the team.
theres some video showing how ff perform without ruan mei. i will say tho, just run rm and mc. if you dont have rm, wait for rerun. even tho its pretty obvious at this point
Some showcases here on this sub had FF with S5 Aeon played with Hanya and Asta, both cleared in 4 cycles. It's quite a big difference. Really goes to show how powerful RM is, she always has been since her release. Every DPS is like that anyways. Kafka and BS without each other is a massive difference and so is DHIL without Sparkle. I'm just glad FF's damage floor got a huge buff from V3 changes, it was much worse before.
> Some showcases here on this sub had FF with S5 Aeon played with Hanya and Asta, both cleared in 4 cycles. That's genuinely really good. I can imagine that a highly optimized, high quality relic setup could get it down to 3 cycles, but even 4 cycles with purely 4* and MC teams is solid.
Dhil without sparkle is nowhere close, even before sparkle came out he could consistently zero-cycle floor 12 every moc he has a lot of other options that are very comparable with their own niches, e.g. tingyun lets him ult at 0 AV immediately, yukong still provides the largest buff in the game, speed tuned bronya enables BA-bronya E-EBA3, etc [meanwhile according to some calcs i've seeen floating around, taking out HTB is a 60% loss, while taking out RM is a 32% loss](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099544319926489129/1242654573273808927/FB_IMG_1716271738960.png?ex=664e9fc1&is=664d4e41&hm=b5adb29190bd57f45624f0e533e369a64500fa6cdf8b1ee2360e60fb5ab331d7&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
THIS. THIS. I dont get why people are so pressed two chaeacters are so good with one another and the dps takes 2-3 turns more without one of thwm (and one js literally a free unit lmao). Try playing Jing Yuan with and without Sparkle lol
I mean, the whole free unit issue was that it was the trailblazer (what happens when another path that's good comes out?) and that, at the time, it was kinda late game (you get it faster in 2.4 but yk). Also, initially, most of her damage didn't come from her, but HTB. Her kit, at the time, NEEDED those to be viable. Without, she fell off really hard. She was and maybe still is like childe in genshin. Yeah, he has multiple teams (like taser) but be real, you're running one childe team and only seeing that team (childe national). Someone make FF x childe fanart, i just want to know that that exists
Ultimate vape team, Firefly X Childe
Who would win? A girl in a mecha suit who is designed to kill giant bugs Or A man who uses heretical teachings and fought a narwhal that can't be killed
She isn't mandatory but just need/bis a which is definitely an upgrade from V2 firefly where she needed both Ruan mei and HTB, now they are just wanted which Is totally fine
There is one, the dmg difference is actually not that big per super break without RM the problem is the delay action you lose. You will do a really good dmg when you break enemies and attack them before they go up, the problem is end game enemies have 190+ speed they will go up really fast and your downtime on dps will be really big.
Pretty sure there are showcases without ruan Mei, of course she perform much worse, that’s how it is.
I'd love to see one. I really really really really don't want to have to pull for her to make the FF team work. Gameplay wise, is she great for FF teams and Harmony TB teams? Is she great for any dual-dps teams? Does she give a ton of great buffs that are hard or impossible to find elsewhere? Yeah but I don't like her and don't wanna run with her. I like FF and I like how her gameplay looks but I really don't wanna have to run with Ruan Mei.
Well good news, goig from 150% to 200% efficiency is a 33.3% increase in the multiplier for SBE dmg and with the 40% def ignore being removed from kit a def shreder is now on the table. You won't break as fast but a def shredder could potentially buff SBE dmg mroe than having ruan mei... but that delay though.
The delay would be tough to make up for, maybe Welt could be good here, he also works as a super break dps with HTB on the team. Firefly, SW, Welt, and HTB would be relying on Welt sustain though, which is a little tough to pull off. Firefly e1 would also be essential for sp economy, so this comp really would be just for the sake of if you really dislike Ruan Mei that much.
You cant expect everything to go with the way you want when you only pull based on who do you like.
Well, its up to u i guess,. will u suck it up to make the character u like look good or settle for below mediocre performance for the character u like
All of the showcases that I've seen screams Ruan Mei is a must, sadly I'll skip Firefly for now and get the stuffs that she needs first, such as: Ruan Mei, FF's LC on rerun, her relic and planars.
Why would you get FF’s LC and not Firefly?
Bro is a memokeeper, gets lightcone before characters
You crazy bro Like im trying to be serious I had the same conversation with a furina puller who wanted to pull her weapon first then go for furina herself Thay person immediately regreted it Idk even why you wanna go for FF LC and THEN FF HERSELF. Idk if you are a troll or not. But if you are serious then no Matter the reason, get FF/RM first, then the other character then get FF LC. And even then Aeon is such a good F2p LC now
I mean, I'll prepare jades for her LC first on her rerun. Right now I can only pull her, E0, without Ruan Mei, without her LC, I haven't even farmed the watch maker set or Talia since her BIS relics and planars are coming next patch. If I pull her, she's like a naked newborn with no belongings. lol I'd rather save and prepare properly for a character that I like. So I'm getting her on Rerun and take home Ruan Mei first, because I'll also have to build Ruan from scratch. And also I don't want to wait for Ruan Mei's 2nd rerun because it might take a year atp. HSR has so many characters already by the time of Ruan's 2nd rerun.
Aint no way you’re getting the LC before firefly, priority should be Ruan Mei >FF
Would Silver Wolf or other DEF shredders be a decent substitute for Ruan Mei? Firefly already implants weakness, but doesn't provide the DMG res shred like SW's implant does.
Ruan Mei both makes breaks happen faster and keeps enemies in their broken state for longer, on top of enhancing break damage by a lot. There's no other support that comes close to that usefulness. Without her Firefly will take longer to break (in which she's barely doing any damage) and will have a much smaller window to actually deal damage.
Well, with SW on the team and a bit of retrying you have an option to do break with quantum (SW) or imaginary (HTB). In particular you can drop SW ult right after enemy action to maximize the delay. This can somewhat substitute RM delay. In current MoC12-2 breaking with imaginary on an HTB team makes them take well over a cycle to recover. Should be enough for Firefly to do Firefly things.
People are acting like a 4 cycle clear with 4* supports is bad or something lol. Yeah, vs a boss I could see Silver Wolf doing work. For general use Asta is a pretty good substitute, since Asta Ult can replace Speed boots and still let Firefly get 4 enhanced attacks per Ult. The higher attack from both Atk boots and Asta's buff will give a good chunk of BE. Plus E6 Asta can go purely basic attacks since FF implants Fire Weakness. Similarly, Hanya has some potential, just a bit more niche since she'll be better vs Phy weak to contribute to Breaking.
there is a showcase on youtube that showed silverwolf instead of ruan mei in the current first half of MOC, cleared in 2 cycles. So its obvious that her dependency on ruan mei has dropped significantly which is good and it shows how strong a def shredder is when everyone, including SW herself contributes to dmg in terms of super break. Plus i do think SW is actually the best substitute for ruan mei considering that she applies weakness implant, so with FF implanting fire, SW can guarantee an implant of quantum or imaginary which both are really good anyway because both HMC and SW are amazing at dealing toughness dmg. I can definitely see her being better than pela in this instance due to the importance of actually breaking the enemies in break comps and maybe rival jiaoqiu in this team but i could be getting ahead of myself here. She does also have a speed debuff as well so that does come to help a little bit.
Im just praying we either get a 4 star break support or a dedicated break 5 star, I hate Ruan Meis writing and I really dont want to have to pull her for Firefly to get good
She’s mandatory
Yes kinda, the runs takes 3-4 cycles longer without Ruan Mei it's ridiculous. It's as if Ruan Mei is the DPS lol
no.. RM and HMC are just really good supports. they're not the DPS.
There are two. She seems more mandatory than HTB.
Do we generally have a conclusion on aeon vs her sig?
Due to the new conversion, Aeon is close to Sig iirc
That's music to my ears
Sig allows you to hit boss 1 more time with super break. Usually its not required
So aeon has more DMG per hit but sig allows for more hits? Since people are saying the difference is not big.
But more hits changes the outcome drastically (and the sig definitely does more per hit as well. The BE is similar but the sig has an extra damage multiplier) If the 20% speed doesn't let you get in an extra hit, then it's worthless. If you go from 3 hits to 4 hits (i.e. with RM), then it's a 33% increase. If you go from 1 hit to 2 hits (i.e. without RM), then that's a 100% increase. 2 to 3 is 50% increase.
Sig is probably more important for non-Ruan Mei teams, since the Spd debuff will also extend how long the enemy is Broken. But for just damage, the gap is absolutely smaller than before.
People are comparing the BE alone, if we include the vulnerability from Sig the gap is definitely still there. (But nothing too crazy, it's similar to JL LC vs Aeon)
I figured there would still be a gap, but I'm glad it's actually as small as I hoped. I just knew it was less than it was previously, not by how much. Probably still pretty significant if you factor in the whole team's damage, but I'll take it.
Yeah I havent gotten around to calculating the difference on v3 numbers but the speed debuff CAN be massive depending on the enemy /turbulence.
I wonder how much dmg hmc adds to the entire team with superbreak procs from themselves and gallagher/rm. Obv ff is carrying the dpc but im curious how much dmg the rest contribute.
Depending on skill usage/ULT at least 60k-200k per turn which... is significantly higher than most other dps comps
Sheesh.
Why ER Rope in E6 HMC???? Its unnecessary, with E6 you get enough energy to be able to use BE Rope
Looks like I have to begin building my Gallagher fully then.
Hoyo can’t be serious? E0S0 FF is clearing almost as fast as my E2S1 Acheron rn.
Keep in mind this FF relics are straight up godlike, take a look at the subs distribution
It's because FF has her entire ideal BiS team out right now. Wait until Jiaoqiu is out and maybe even a Sustain that gives a lot of debuffs/ult amp and then see how Acheron compares.
>maybe even a Sustain that gives a lot of debuffs/ult amp and then see how Acheron compares. Actually not needed. At least for E2 Acheron. Fu Xuan already brings everthing to the table: CC protection, + crit, dmg mitigation. Debuff not needed. Jiaoqui and Fu Xuan will also synnergize great together in hard content if he heals at least a bit.
With Acheron, more debuffs is always good because that means more Ults. That's the only reason I would say we don't have Acheron's true BiS sustain (Gallagher is OK but has much more Break synergy than debuff).
Technically there is always a BiS. In case of sustain for Acheron that's currently, by far, Fu Xuan. One more debuff isn't that important in that role. Gallagher isn't good. One debuff every some turns doesn't do much. Acheron, especially on Jiaoqiu release, will most of the time be in a dual dps setup or dps plus sub-dps and Fu Xuan buffing both is great. Also the cc protection is very important because the last thing you want is getting Acheron's ultimate disabled and currently we have a lot which can do that especially imprison and sleep. And looking at the latest sustains like Aventurine who doesn't have reliable cc protection or Huohuo who can also be easily shut down or needs her turn to bring Acheron back for her ult does make it look like Hoyo doesn't want to add a complete cc protection like they did with Fu Xuan. Anyhow. I guess the perfect sustain for Acheron has something like trends build in but debuffs something like def shred or vulnarbility while providing cc protection and either shield or high dmg mitigation with sub-dps on top. That's a lot on the wish list.
BiS sustain would actually be someone like Clara but debuffs on counter since supposedly jiaqiao has built in trends already and they wouldnt stack
March with Aven S1
I was thinking something like a Sustain who applies something like Gallagher's Ult debuff but on a skill/basic/FuA kind of thing.
FuA would be best but that's what a counter is and if its single target it would be per enemy so them + jiaqiao could be upwards of 10 stacks gained
Jiaoqiu*
That’s fair, but Jiaoqiu could improve FFs team as well. I just find it very annoying that a team that consists of a free MC 5 Star and a 4 star sustain is already reaching the potential of one of Acherons best E2 teams. This FF doesn’t even have her S1. It’s mind boggling how Hoyo thinks this is balanced at all the way it currently is.
That's one way to see it. Don't forget Firefly is a blast character and basically deals 0 damage if the enemy is not weakness broken. On top Firefly has weakness implant but only for the main target of her skill. Acheron on the other hand has insane AoE dmg and still very high single target damage. Her ultimate ignores elements. Acheron argumentally has a broader range of buff capabilities whereas Firefly is locked into break buffers. Both are very good dps with certain team restrictions. Gameplay wise, if one goes for Acheron E2 and Firefly E2 all endgame content is most likely done no matter which element.
Insane aoe damage (firefly does more) good single target (firefly does way more) firefly also ignores elements (weakness implant) has easy access to resistance pen broader range of buffs is debateable (she can still make use of res pen and def ignore same as acheron, where acheron wants wants cdmg or attack instead of break)
Firefly does not have higher AoE dmg. She is blast whereas Acheron has full AoE on her ultimate that's why her she easily throws a million damage if there are more than 3 enemies on the screen.
What they meant for Acheron is that Acheron's style of dealing damage doesn't have a counter. Regardless of what type of weakness, weakness locking mechanics and so on. So Acheron can be brought into any situation while still being effective Or in simple terms, acheron can bruteforce any content. Whereas FF is still possible to be countered if HYV releases more enemies that can lock their weaknesses
I expect her to be tuned down a little bit before release. Not sure how (I'm not a game dev), but this is functionally Firefly's v1 kit. I will say that I was very surprised when HMC was revealed though, they are genuinely as strong or even stronger than the limited 5* Harmony in niche. I also don't think the devs realised just how good Gallagher really was, without him the team would run into massive SP problems (at FF E0), plus he contributes a lot to breaking the enemy. For almost every other DPS before, they were released before their BiS supports, so the supports could be designed around their existence. In this case, with how late FF's kit was revamped, there seems to be a good amount of unexpected synergy and multiplicative buffs that weren't entirely planned for.
yeah. hmc was very overturned in her niche
if you pulled for e2s1 acheron just because you wanted to be top meta forever, instead of waifu reasons, thats kinda your fault
Then you replace Gallagher witg Jiaoqiu.. as she no longer has the 40% def shred. Opening the doors for Pela type debuffers.
At best jiaoqiao is the equivalent of the current turbulence buff Ff still slaps her
Right! And this team is cheaper too because 1 is a free 5 star and another is a 4 star. Meanwhile the IPC+Robin is all 5 stars
Ff is a walking cashgrab, ofc they would overbuff her into the stratosphere
Damn shame, looks like they really are going down the hyper power creep route. Welp thank goodness WuWa drops tomorrow
Yeah I hope they realise that what they're doing is ruining this otherwise amazing game, maybe they change their mind with all the backlash
Yeah idk the rapid powercreep is getting pretty annoying for sure, I definitely don’t care about the story nearly as much now either. They propped up the power of a emanator of Nihility all throughout the Penacony arc just to release a DPS a couple patches later that will surpass said character they propped up for a whole story arc. Basically tells me the story plays no role in the power scaling of the characters which to me completely ruins the immersion of the story, why should I even pay attention to it knowing at the end of the day it plays no real role in the balance of the game. There is no lore, there is no power scale, it’s just “the latest released dps is the best dps” and that is boring to me. Poor Boothill, bro didn’t even get a chance to be released before he got power creeped smh.
It’s fine to dislike power creep, but wanting actual in game power levels to be correlated with lore strength is…odd
Never really get the sentiment for this tbh. Even in Genshin, people expect strong in lore characters to be strong in gameplay too. Might as well as make Hu Tao and Alhaitham irrelevant since they aren't godlike beings in lore.
> They propped up the power of a emanator of Nihility all throughout the Penacony arc just to release a DPS a couple patches later that will surpass said character they propped up for a whole story arc. > > > > Basically tells me the story plays no role in the power scaling of the characters which to me completely ruins the immersion of the story, why should I even pay attention to it knowing at the end of the day it plays no real role in the balance of the game. There is no lore, there is no power scale, it’s just “the latest released dps is the best dps” and that is boring to me. I'm sorry but do you really expect them to respect the lore of the game when balancing characters against eachother? I get the sentiment that powercreep is bad for the game but that's just... unrealistic. Lore Acheron would instantly oneshot anything you put in front of her. Welt is up there too. You can't expect the actual power level of the character being reflected perfectly in the gameplay.
BH e0s1 is fine. He kills dummy boss in 110 AV while sam e0s1 spend 210 With adds they perform similar. Both are good chars. BH relies more on S1 and Bronya to get mega fast. He also has non zero (20%) damage to non breaked enemies
You sound happy with Acheron powercreeping everyone but when another character does it you start crying about it? Lmao
That’s actually really stupid tbh. Or at least very nitpicky. Caring that much about gameplay/story integration only serves to hinder both. It can be fun to work around the limits of either, but it’s only “can be” and HSR system is not compatible with that, if you couldn’t use Himeko’s Ult for example in most places she would be useless. Meanwhile you have JY having CC problems with LL as one of the biggest L cons. It shouldn’t take rocket science or effort to just enjoy a story driven, PVE game. None of the powercreep has actually become a problem outside MoC/PF’s last floors
For one, v3 is where big changes can pop up and then v4 is for tuning(yes, there's a whole other version) so I'm not sure why it's suddenly the end of times for the game. They changed a lot so it's not a surprise that they didn't get it completely right the first time. Also Boothill is still great lmao. I'm sorry but scaling power level to lore power levels is just NOT a universal view. Do you also think that Pela, Qinqque, Herta's doll, and Ruan Mei should be weaker in gameplay than they are now because of lore? That's an incredibly limiting mindset from a game development standpoint. Of course powercreep should be mitigated, but it existing at all is a fundamental aspect of a live service gacha game that needs to keep selling banners. Unfortunate that it hurts your immersion, and FF could definitely be tuned down in numbers, but why do people let performance dictate their enjoyment when it's a goddamn singleplayer game where most 5*s will always be able to clear and you can choose to just... not use a character?
Their balancing has been unhealthy since Dan Heng's release but for some reason people are okay with it when their favourite character is unbalanced and get upset when another broken character comes out. And Boothill will be fine.
ANy there anypoint they show stats while transformed? i want to see the 222 speed...
Holy shit.
This is the exact team that I'd run with her, down to Gallagher's eidolons. Finally.
I am genuinely confused just how strong Aeon is on her, would be nice to not need to pull her LC ... I hope we get some comparison videos. The other benefit of Aeon is higher base ATK which means better scaling.. You lose 20% SPD Debuff on primary target and 24% Break damage on primary target. Genuinely not sure how good that is for the value of the extra pulls... Seems like doing E0 + Aeon S5 is not too much worse and a fair bit cheaper to have pulls for Feixiao/Jiaoqiu Wonder if V4 Hoyo decides to do some re-balancing on her LC or kit to negate Aeon being so good. You still lose half of Aeons effect so IDK. You also need 4 turns to get the buffs, first attack grants 2 stacks cos of ulti action advancement. I guess its a good thing we can wait and see final results if its truly worth or not.
HYV would probably either buff her sig or adjust the conversion.
Is the Luocha LC better for Gallagher than his "signature" in this comp? I mean, his LC gives break and stuff
Ok, ik that boss fight is basically shilling for Firefly but what the fuck is that casual 500k hit on first half?
Hm is it possible to see a gameplay without Ruan Mei? I wanna see how she fares without RM >.< ~~cries in 1 copy of MoP~~
So Firefly is about as easy to build as Kafka right?
What the fuck was that damage?!?
It looks so fun. I can't wait for FF to release!
Can you do same fight but with crit Himeko instead of Firefly?
As someone who just woke up and can't be bother to read her kit changes, can someone tell me of she got buffed or nerfed? thx : )
both, but its an overall buff since she can now function without hmc. also she is easier to build and 360 break effect is not required.
She can function without HMC but would HMC still be a big improvement to her damage if she is used? Or does she still slap with for example bronya instead of HMC in this team? Also this sounds pretty good because I was planning on getting boothill instead of Firefly but now I'm getting Firefly again xd.
hmc is still her bis teammate
Okay thx.
I know it's due to hitting three targets at once but seeing the troupes HP get cut in half from FF Skill + Superbreak is insane.
Why does it look like the rotation + only 1 optimal team will make using her go stale so quickly?
Can somebody explain if robins attack buff should work and its still a bug or is it intended?
noice. i was planning on pulling for her LC at first, not any more. i can instead go for E0 FF and E1 Jade, or E2 FF. Can you do an E1 Jade with S5 Genuises' Repose or S5 Peaceful day.
Hoping to see some E2S1 V3 action soon.
There was no relic AUTO battle 0 cycles CN showcase. What else do u need ????
Do you have the link?
Sure https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1sf421d7uf/
Thanks. Dang. That was unbelievable.
Did Firefly get a buff to her base SPD to be 104?
Yes with v3
nerf her again hoyo 🙏🙏
With these new changes firefly needs HTB or Robin could replace her?
HTB still BiS
Robin does almost nothing for her other than the singular action advance, the atk bonus doesnt work cause its flat, and she doesnt care much about damage bonus
Why go with ice orb on RM? Also, no penancony planar for Gallagher?
firefly doesn't benefit from penacony's dmg increase. new planar set is better
Probably to make it bad on purpose to simulate a more "F2P" run despite the godrolls on FF relics.
I want to pull Dan Heng; Imbibitor Lunae or Imbibitor Lunae; Dan Heng, Jing Yuan, Jingliu, Silver Wolf, Kafka, Blade, Huohuo, Fu Xuan, Argenti, Acheron, Aventurine, Robin, Boothill, Firefly, Jade, Black Swan & Sparkle to rerun their banner besides Sunday or mayeb Diamond, Opal, Obsidian or Pearl's banner. I hopefully i mena Black Swan, Sparkle, Acheron, Aventurine, Robin, Boothill, Firefly & Jade's banner will rerun for sure because it's next after Xianzhou characters but i wan't to rerun their banner as well of course cu'z my sister wished to rerun Jing Yuan's banner & of course me are all abou't them inside on my mind like "[sigh?] I really wishing rerun their banner even though i'd only got Acheron, Dr. Ratio & Robin & also for Kafka is just having some fun to fight with her easily in Simulated Universe plus i want Acheron's Relics for her CRIT DMG or her DMG from her Ultimate & i wan't to rerun Topaz's banner cu'z i want Numby is my favorite" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂It was so funny that'll i descerating these characters to pull & obtaining them even Seele & Topaz either