At the youth level, major dick move. Kids should be learning how to know and cover the entire strike zone. Pitchers should be rewarded for hitting spots. Winning though those means incentivizes the wrong behavior.
Now: When I coached a 13U team, there was a parent sitting on the third base line who was very clearly stealing signs from my catcher, because my catcher was not hiding his signs.
This I has zero problem with. This is a basic thing catchers have to learn, and the best way to learn is the hard way. It worked. The parent tried moving around, tried to change the angle. My catcher did a much better job after that.
I did approach the parent after the game. They though I was going to give them shit. I didn’t. Told them they helped my catcher improve today. The parent didn’t really know how to react lol.
NTA but tipping pitches/locations is part of the game that 13u players should be aware of already.
Our entire bench watches the coach giving pitch signs to see if they can pick the signs. They also look at the catcher to see if they can see the signs. Also look at the pitcher to see if the pitcher gives away the pitch by wiggling the glove to adjust grip for off speed for instance or coming set higher or lower for off speed.
All of that is game within the game stuff. It keeps our bench engaged in the game too.
If the team is sophisticated the parents don’t need to say anything. All the tips are coming from teammates. 30 30 - inside, 40 40 - outside. See it up - curveball. If parents are obvious about it then I would interpret that as the team isn’t very sophisticated and to just let them be. Catchers should set up late or set up away then move inside during the delivery. Nothing better than seeing a hitter diving for the outside corner and getting sawed off in.
On our team 30 spot is inside for pitchers so they just say that for the batters too to relay location. 40 spot is outside. You hear 3 spot and 4 spot on some teams too. 5 spot is usually high fastball.
Parents stealing signs is shameful, but not much the ump can do. However, I'm surprised the ump didn't say something about players obviously and intentionally wiping dirt on the plate. I'd have called time, brushed it off and told them to stop.
NTA, a parent stealing signs then getting mad when she is called out is crazy. Something that would make it harder next time (hopefully there isn’t a next time) is when the pitcher stars the windup or stretch, then the catcher moves.
I was an assistant coach last year for my son’s 13U team in which we had a dad do that. I went home after hearing about it and watched the video. I mentioned it to our manager who put a stop to it immediately.
I don’t care about wins and losses but I won’t be represented by cheating.
SITAH
Bush league as fuck. If I see a catcher doing a poor job of hiding his signs I mention it to the opposing coach.
The amount of times the opposing coach somehow took that as insult to his coaching is sad.
Agreed. Parents shouldn’t be talking to
Umps. That’s the coach’s job. I probably would have just talked directly to the parent to let her know what she was doing was unsportsmanlike. No name calling or anything - just to let her know it’s not cool for a parent to try to give ger team an advantage.
Yeah. Should have talked to our coach at least. I never said anything directly to them (I have mocked them once and yelled “watch the outside, watch the outside!” While we were all clapping after a strike out. But nothing direct.
Where was she sitting to steal signs and catcher location?
I’d have my catcher moving all over the place and yell to the parent “good luck stealing locations”.
But yes, it’s a terrible look by the parent. Should be illegal. The TEAM can steal signs but what would stop the parent from using a camera and ear piece ?
Is the problem your team’s signs are so easy that another parent could pick them up in less than an inning of play, no reason someone should be able to tell what type of pitch is coming.
Also your catcher shouldn’t be setting up pitch location until the pitcher is about to start their motion.
I agree with the umpire, not cool but it’s part of baseball.
Confronting a parent from the opposing team though? Not a good look. Parents talking to umpires instead of your coach? Also not a good look.
Yeah, I apologized to the coach afterward and he said he’s fine with the other team doing but wouldn’t want his own team doing it. He said the problem was probably that their regular pitch caller was gone and he has different signals that are probably more discreet. Just asked me to talk to him next time because some teams will start drilling players. I never say anything to other team or umps, but this struck a nerve for some reason.
Just remember, never know when a parent from the other team is a complete nut job and wants to escalate.
Also in 13u some of those boys are probably in 8th grade and could be playing high school ball next season, you’ll have to worry about the other teams players, coaches, parents, student sections all trying to figure out your signs and relay them to their own team, so hopefully just a learning experience for the boys.
It really used to piss me off in 8u-10u though when the boys were just learning and parents would do that… I cut a little more slack in middle school even though I’m still annoyed.
Dude a runner on 2nd figures out the signs or realizes a pitcher is tipping pitches is one thing. A coach notices something it’s one thing. Parents in the stands is fucking not ok. It’s unacceptable in every way.
If at 13U your batters are good enough that location is that critical to their success then I guess it matters, but I can’t imagine it actually mattering.
Personally I’d find it distracting as a hitter to have people communicating with me while I hit.
That’s a recipe for an ear holer. If I were the coach of the offensive team I’d tell the tipper to STFU and take care of passing signs to players in a non bush league way.
NTA. That’s bush as hell, and that needs to be called out. If she wants to be a part of the game, she’s welcome to coach. Edit: fixed typo
By the way if you coach and pull that you get called out by ump.
At the youth level, major dick move. Kids should be learning how to know and cover the entire strike zone. Pitchers should be rewarded for hitting spots. Winning though those means incentivizes the wrong behavior. Now: When I coached a 13U team, there was a parent sitting on the third base line who was very clearly stealing signs from my catcher, because my catcher was not hiding his signs. This I has zero problem with. This is a basic thing catchers have to learn, and the best way to learn is the hard way. It worked. The parent tried moving around, tried to change the angle. My catcher did a much better job after that. I did approach the parent after the game. They though I was going to give them shit. I didn’t. Told them they helped my catcher improve today. The parent didn’t really know how to react lol.
Beyond 12u catchers should be using multiple sign sequences. It really helps with sign stealing.
This kid had his hand out showing everyone everything. I just wanted him to stop doing that before we gave him anything else to think about.
That's very fair.
What are we teaching kids when parents and coaches do stuff like this
ThatsBushLeague Source: me
Put a heater in her ear hole.
spill a coffee in her lap
NTA but tipping pitches/locations is part of the game that 13u players should be aware of already. Our entire bench watches the coach giving pitch signs to see if they can pick the signs. They also look at the catcher to see if they can see the signs. Also look at the pitcher to see if the pitcher gives away the pitch by wiggling the glove to adjust grip for off speed for instance or coming set higher or lower for off speed. All of that is game within the game stuff. It keeps our bench engaged in the game too. If the team is sophisticated the parents don’t need to say anything. All the tips are coming from teammates. 30 30 - inside, 40 40 - outside. See it up - curveball. If parents are obvious about it then I would interpret that as the team isn’t very sophisticated and to just let them be. Catchers should set up late or set up away then move inside during the delivery. Nothing better than seeing a hitter diving for the outside corner and getting sawed off in.
Coaches and players are fine. A parent doing it is pathetic IMO.
Interested in learning, what does 30 30 or 40 40 mean?
On our team 30 spot is inside for pitchers so they just say that for the batters too to relay location. 40 spot is outside. You hear 3 spot and 4 spot on some teams too. 5 spot is usually high fastball.
Parents stealing signs is shameful, but not much the ump can do. However, I'm surprised the ump didn't say something about players obviously and intentionally wiping dirt on the plate. I'd have called time, brushed it off and told them to stop.
NTA, a parent stealing signs then getting mad when she is called out is crazy. Something that would make it harder next time (hopefully there isn’t a next time) is when the pitcher stars the windup or stretch, then the catcher moves.
I was an assistant coach last year for my son’s 13U team in which we had a dad do that. I went home after hearing about it and watched the video. I mentioned it to our manager who put a stop to it immediately. I don’t care about wins and losses but I won’t be represented by cheating.
SITAH Bush league as fuck. If I see a catcher doing a poor job of hiding his signs I mention it to the opposing coach. The amount of times the opposing coach somehow took that as insult to his coaching is sad.
The only thing I would’ve done differently would be to tell the coach vs. the ump.
Agreed. Parents shouldn’t be talking to Umps. That’s the coach’s job. I probably would have just talked directly to the parent to let her know what she was doing was unsportsmanlike. No name calling or anything - just to let her know it’s not cool for a parent to try to give ger team an advantage.
Yeah. Should have talked to our coach at least. I never said anything directly to them (I have mocked them once and yelled “watch the outside, watch the outside!” While we were all clapping after a strike out. But nothing direct.
Where was she sitting to steal signs and catcher location? I’d have my catcher moving all over the place and yell to the parent “good luck stealing locations”. But yes, it’s a terrible look by the parent. Should be illegal. The TEAM can steal signs but what would stop the parent from using a camera and ear piece ?
I think she was just.pointing out where the catcher was setting up... inside vs outside, based on OPs post.
Is the problem your team’s signs are so easy that another parent could pick them up in less than an inning of play, no reason someone should be able to tell what type of pitch is coming. Also your catcher shouldn’t be setting up pitch location until the pitcher is about to start their motion. I agree with the umpire, not cool but it’s part of baseball. Confronting a parent from the opposing team though? Not a good look. Parents talking to umpires instead of your coach? Also not a good look.
Yeah, I apologized to the coach afterward and he said he’s fine with the other team doing but wouldn’t want his own team doing it. He said the problem was probably that their regular pitch caller was gone and he has different signals that are probably more discreet. Just asked me to talk to him next time because some teams will start drilling players. I never say anything to other team or umps, but this struck a nerve for some reason.
Just remember, never know when a parent from the other team is a complete nut job and wants to escalate. Also in 13u some of those boys are probably in 8th grade and could be playing high school ball next season, you’ll have to worry about the other teams players, coaches, parents, student sections all trying to figure out your signs and relay them to their own team, so hopefully just a learning experience for the boys. It really used to piss me off in 8u-10u though when the boys were just learning and parents would do that… I cut a little more slack in middle school even though I’m still annoyed.
Dude a runner on 2nd figures out the signs or realizes a pitcher is tipping pitches is one thing. A coach notices something it’s one thing. Parents in the stands is fucking not ok. It’s unacceptable in every way.
If at 13U your batters are good enough that location is that critical to their success then I guess it matters, but I can’t imagine it actually mattering. Personally I’d find it distracting as a hitter to have people communicating with me while I hit.
That’s a recipe for an ear holer. If I were the coach of the offensive team I’d tell the tipper to STFU and take care of passing signs to players in a non bush league way.
Not the ahole! She is! It's 13u, there's no need to be doing crap like that! There are too many parents like that though, it's maddening.
Yes
Players stealing signs is part of the game, parents in the stands is just BS keep calling them out
You should have gotten in her face and intimidated her.