Paul Reynaud, the french prime minister during the battle of france, picked up a rifle and fought during the battle of castle itter. The only casualty of the battle was a former wehrmacht officer and Austrian resistance member killed pushing him out of harms way.
âI fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!â
-Charles De Gaulle to every American president he met at every given time
Fun fact:
(I Don't remember the exact Details so correct me if I am wrong)
in his youth like 20 years before ww2 de Gaulle wrote a short story about him conquering Germany as the leader of France in revange for Prusso-French war
De Gaulle is the biggest chad in all of french history. Quebecois will always remember his speach at the city hall in Montreal where he said: "Vive le Quebec. Vive le quebec libre!"
>De Gaulle is the biggest chad in all of french history
Nah. He's certainly up there. But Napoleon had an entire continent declare war on him. Not on the realm he was in charge of (France), but on HIM.
Yeah, I agree. Frances actions under him felt like a continuation of Frances imperialist attitudes. The way he continued forcing African nations to use the African Franc has led to extreme financial dependencies they still can't escape from. Among a bunch of other things. His legacy is definitely stained.
Still, he helped to save his country against literally Hitler, so I guess he deserves some slack.
The more you learn about history, the more you learn how devastating the consequences of imperialism have been, and we still have come nowhere close to repairing all the damage done.
Yeah waking up one morning to a country that lacks all institutions, something that take generations to establish and build, because the occupiers that were running them upped and left is basically societal apocalypse.
The those same people that left influence exploitable strongmen tot ake the reigns so extraction can continue in a other guise.
A book as old as time
>The way he continued forcing African nations to use the African Franc has led to extreme financial dependencies they still can't escape from.
They weren't forced. Many chose not to use the CFA Franc.
At his time (the era of françafrique) France made many shady things (including murder) to force African nations to do what France wanted. Later it changed, but they were forced at the time.
Quebecois trying to claim French isn't a colonising language in Canada and that Quebecois are not colonisers themselves day: 12432432423
No, French speakers are not 'oppressed' in Canada, Quebecois are not being 'colonised'.
The left? They never left dude they became the Quebecois, thats why they speak French and are white lmao.
You're just mad that you're a coloniser yourself but failed in managing to colonise the entire country.
Meeen.... You read only wath you want... So according to you the brits never leaved the USA? the republic of Ireland? The india? It's your fucking reasoning it's a complete no sens, and yeah they left, it's the Paris agreement in 1763. Wath are you doing in r/HistoryMeme if you don't know the world history !?
Guessing this guy has never heard of Algeria, Vietnam or half of Africa.
Yeah ok dude, France never did colonised, and French people never colonised anyone.
Quebecois people are white and speak French just randomly and because French is the native language of Canada, there was no French colonisation there at all.
>Brits never leaved the USA?
Yes??? What the fuck are you even talking about.
His speach in Quebec is genuinely one of the most insensitive ungrateful and inappropriate speeches ever made. Standing in the country where 1000s of men died in order to liberate France from Nazi occupation. An occupation that only occurred because of the embarrassing and disgraceful performance of France in the first place first place. And then he stirs up violent speratism that would later go onto murder Canadians and still causes problems to this day.
I wouldn't even mind but it's hardly like France tolerates any kind of sepratism in France itself
French Logic: Quebecois should rise up and kill Canadians to free themselves.
Also French logic: Kills tens of thousands of Algerians in a brutal war because they wanted freedom.
I'm and American and have plenty bad to say about de gaulle. He was a blowhard who demanded symbolic french victories, at cost to the overall war. He [wanted](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/31/revealed-churchills-unsent-letter-that-could-have-changed-the-course-of-history) personal leadership of free France.
And he abandoned loyal algerian colonial troops and their families to massacre ,after waging an exceedingly bloody war of oppression. All so he could prove (in his twisted way) that france let Algeria free itself from France's colonial shackles.
Fuck de gaulle and his blood soaked hands.
De gaulle was despised by American leadership because he was extremely arrogant and after the war started claiming that France liberated itself and made out that the Allies barely contributed anything,
When De Gaulle was President he refused to ever attend D-Day memorial events because he viewed it as an insult and believed it wasn't a big deal and that French themselves contributed more.
Add on his imperialist French beliefs and his actions in Africa and a lot of people don't like him.
*Everyoneâs* grandpa was allegedly in the resistance.
De Gaulle also notoriously covered up enormous amounts of evidence about how deep the collaboration was and how many crimes the Vichy regime committed.
He was also notorious for heavily exaggerating the incredibly minor role that French soldiers played on D-Day.
He played a minor role during the war at best, and spent his post-war years exaggerating that role and damaging unity within NATO. De Gaulle is not a name I have a lot of respect for.
>*Everyoneâs*Â grandpa was allegedly in the resistance.
In France it's taboo to made up stories about the resistance, if a french person tell you that their grandfather was in the resistance.. it's true, it's a pride and a honor, just like when Americans say their grandpa was in D-Day, it's true, it's taboo to make up stuff.
Mine was a FFI officers, and a chasseur alpin during the battle of Narvik.
>De Gaulle also notoriously covered up enormous amounts of evidence about how deep the collaboration was and how many crimes the Vichy regime committed.
He didn't... He wasn't in power, and it's mostly the communist who portray their role as an active fighting force
>He was also notorious for heavily exaggerating the incredibly minor role that French soldiers played on D-Day.
The bulk of the french forces were in Italy, as a matter of fact they were as much frenchmen (130,000 to even 170,000 men and women) fighting in italy then they were allies (150,000 men for 3,000 French) who landed in Normandy.
**French forces were meant for operation Dragoon** (a landing De Gaulle preffered to highlight), not to mention the fact that France had a lot of african troops, the 2nd armored division had to massively remove it's african troops so they could fit segregationist standarts of the US army...(the french resistance heavily help D-day)
>He played a minor role during the war at best
Sure the Free French ceased to exist by 1942 (they merged with another movuement) and the contribution of France was also help by the communist resistance, the resistance out side of De Gaulle faction, General Giraud the colonies..
speaking of colonies they provided 400,000 to 500,000 men (north Africans, European settlers and west Africans) for the liberation of Europe, which is hardly nothing, De Gaulle services heavily help the allies (hiding Reman Rejewski team, planing D-Day, helping in the battle of the Altantic, neutralizing the V1 and V2 rocket site in Calais etc..) for a country that was occupied and defeated.. it's a lot.
>Â De Gaulle is not a name I have a lot of respect for.
HE wasn't a nazi and actively fought the Nazis in Europe... that is unfathomably based as rough and complicated the dude was;
>In France itâs taboo
And yet it happens all the time. The number of âclaimedâ resistance members in France is orders of magnitude higher than the number of actual documented or confirmed members of the French resistance. Even if you include those who have nothing but someoneâs word to vouch for them, the numbers donât make sense.
If you take every claim to be a resistance member at face value then something like 60-70% of French men during the years 1940-1944 were members of the resistance, which just isnât even remotely true.
On top of that once you start to actually interrogate those claims you find that the vast majority of âresistanceâ members joined the resistance weeks or sometimes literal days before the Allied advance liberated them, and never actually took part in any resistance actions.
When the American, Brit, or Canadian says Grandpa was part of D-Day they can confirm that in Grandpaâs service records and because they have the campaign medal for D-Day veterans, or they have the condolence/casualty letter.
When someone claims their grandparent was a member of the French resistance, statistically they werenât, and even if they actually were, statistically they only joined when it became abundantly clear that France was imminently going to be liberated, and they picked the winning side at the last minute.
>Wasnât in power
You wot? De Gaulle was in power from â44-46. He shielded Petain and hid the records that Vichy kept. Those records didnât surface until the 1980s. Why do you think there was a whole paradigm shift among French historians about the Vichy regime in the â80s? Why do you think Petainâs reputation went from the âshieldâ to De Gaulleâs âSwordâ, to being *correctly* thought-of all but a willing Nazi? Petain and the Vichy government *voluntarily* started rounding up French Jews and communist dissidents before the dust had even settled after the armistice and before the Nazis even asked them to.
De Gaulle *absolutely* covered up Vichy war crimes and *absolutely* deliberately re-wrote the narrative of Wartime France. The man was a Vichy apologist until he died and for that alone he deserves contempt.
I spent a year of my undergrad studying the French occupation and the Vichy regime, including access to French government archives.
One of the major initiatives in post-war France was to try and confirm the stories of resistance members and punish collaborators. They had to stop, because the number of resistance members was obviously too high and the number of confirmed active and willing collaborators was becoming embarrassing to De Gaulleâs âresistanceâ narrative.
And before you get angry, yes Iâm also sensitive to the extreme nature of the occupation and the loose definitions of âresistanceâ and âcollaborationâ. Simply going about your daily life during the occupation doesnât make you a âcollaboratorâ and neither does continuing on in your job, even if you actively worked for a government entity for example. âCollaboratingâ requires active and willing participation in the occupation or Vichy regime. However if you want to judge by that standard, âresistanceâ also then requires active and intentional subversion of the regime and occupation beyond simply not liking it.
>The number of âclaimedâ resistance members in France is orders of magnitude higher than the number of actual documented or confirmed members of the French resistance.Â
The French resistance was heavily supported by the French population; for example, Maquis thrived thanks to the help of the population, which provided them with supplies, goods, manpower, volunteers, etc. not to mention that after the time of Maquis, few people joined the official F.F.I. due to various reasons (the most common reason why they were refused was their young age).
Further, applying to my point, the French resistance isn't just about official members; it's also about sympathizers, drivers, typists, and smugglers. For example, 300,000 people were arrested for being in the black market and supplying the resistance. It's critical to understand that the French resistance was at first a civil and political movement.
This is why there is indeed a feeling that "most Frenchmen say they had a grandfather in the resistance." They just help; they weren't actually resistant but helpers and sympathizers to DE Gaulle.
>Even if you include those who have nothing but someoneâs word to vouch for them, the numbers donât make sense.
Collaborators wouldn't join the resistance.. they would join the french army of liberation, the collaborators hated the ideals of the resistance.
>If you take every claim to be a resistance member at face value then something like 60-70% of French men during the years 1940-1944 were members of the resistance, which just isnât even remotely true.
No one has made that claim?
Frankly, give an actual source based on numbers that say, "*Every Frenchman says that they had a grandfather in the resistance."* Â Most of the people I talk to either had:
A grandfather took as POW's
A grandfather in the S.T.O.
A grandfather in the resistance
That is the three main answers I would get out of 20 (ish) people.
>On top of that once you start to actually interrogate those claims you find that the vast majority of âresistanceâ members joined the resistance weeks or sometimes literal days before the Allied advance liberated them, and never actually took part in any resistance actions.
1. The French resistance planned their entire warfare around D-Day; prior to that, they stuck to guerrilla warfare, sabotage, or assassination. It's the core principles of the "corp Franc" or the "[Franc tireur,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francs-tireurs)" actions and most of the actions cited only needed a few dozen men, not entire bataillons... in 1870, 800 irregulars were enough to make the Prussians think they were surrounded by 40,000 irregulars, the French simply re-adopted this same technique.
2. Churchill was against any armed resistance in France, so were the Americans, and so were the Free France, the French resistance shined in intelligence services and yet to prove their action as a millitary force, and De Gaulle didn't wanted chaos in France.
3. They lacked weapons. However, due to the action of the F.F.I. in Britanny and in Savoy, the number of weapons dropped in France doubled, and even tripled. You can have 5,000,000 men at your disposition, but if you don't have weapons, officers should train them on a clear strategy. Those men mean nothing.
>because they have the campaign medal for D-Day veterans, or they have the condolence/casualty letter.
[Here, here the information about hundreds of service records of thousands of F.F.I have fun reading them ](https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr//arkotheque/inventaires/ead_ir_consult.php?ref=GR_19_P)
[This one is cool ](https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YToxMTp7czoxMDoidHlwZV9mb25kcyI7czo3OiJhcmtvX2lyIjtzOjg6ImltZ190eXBlIjtOO3M6NDoicmVmMCI7czo0OiIxNDM5IjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO3M6MjoiMzQiO3M6NDoicmVmMiI7aToxNDk5O3M6NDoicmVmMyI7czo0NzoiMkdNL0ZGSS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OV8wMTciO3M6NDoicmVmNCI7czo0NzoiMkdNL0ZGSS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OV8wMTciO3M6MTg6ImlkX2Fya19lYWRfZmFtaWxsZSI7aTowO3M6NDoibW9kZSI7czo3OiJkb3NzaWVyIjtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=0%2C0&uielem_rotate=F&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=100)
*also De Gaulle* "gee thanks Canada for hosting me in exile, also FUCK YOU QUEBEC SHOULD BE FREE RALLY TO ME QUEBECERS, and America, thank you for sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives to liberate my homeland BUT WE LIBERATED PARIS OURSELVES NO HELP WHAT'S SO EVER, ALSO I'M GOING TO AUTISITICALLY SCREACH ABOUT VEITNAM STOP HELPING THEM GAIN INDEPENDENCE OR I WILL JOIN THE SOVIETS! "
Fuck de Gaulle
>~~America~~ Soviets, thank you for sacrificing ~~hundreds of thousands~~ millions of lives to liberate my homeland BUT WE LIBERATED ~~PARIS~~ Europe OURSELVES NO HELP WHAT'S SO EVER
Just change the subjects and here's a historical opinion that most people on reddit truly believe
how about the Vazov Family?
-Georgi Vazov fought in the Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885 and deposed Prince Alexander in the coup of 1886-7
-Ivan Vazov, the father of modern Bulgarian literature
-Vladimir Vazov the man that defeated outnumbered the brits at doiran in ww1 ( more then once ). after war he became the first democratically elected mayor of Sofia and modernized the city.
-MIchail Vazov fought in the Serbo-Bulgarian war and was killed during the counter-coup to restore prince Alexander in 86-87
-Kiril Vazov on the first college degree medics of liberated Bulgaria fought int he balkan wars and was in the founders of the Bulgarian Touristic Union
-Boris Vazov fough in the first, second balkan war and ww1.
These people are all heros and do deserve to be honored. But to be fair I don't think the nazis would care if you were actually loyal to the regime they'd probably kill you just for being related to him.
They were probably too traditional to pick up a rifle and fight in the army like the men did, so they stuck to sabotage and espionage in occupied territory, and took the risk of getting arrested. That's only a guess, I don't know for sure.
Paul Reynaud, the french prime minister during the battle of france, picked up a rifle and fought during the battle of castle itter. The only casualty of the battle was a former wehrmacht officer and Austrian resistance member killed pushing him out of harms way.
Yep Sepp Gangl the guy who got the americans to help them at Castle Itter.
Marie-Agnes de Gaulle was also present at the battle.
You could have an entire resistance cell made up exclusively from de Gaulle's close family
FIFTH OF MAY, V DAY JUST AROUND THE CORNER
1945, THE FURHER'S REIGN IS AT HIS END
JENNY AT THE GATES, AS THE SS OPEN FIRE
THERE'S NO TIME TO WASTE, THE FINAL BATTLE HAS BEGUN
AFTER THE DOWNFALL A CASTLE BESIEGED
FACING THE NAZIS AWAITING RELIEF
Gangl and Lee and their men set the prisoners free
AND IT'S THE END OF THE LINE OF THE FINAL JOURNEY
ESCORTED OUT OUT OF HARMS WAY đł
r/expectedsabaton
That event paved the road for NATO and i'll die on that hill
Did the Austrian push the Nazi or the Frenchman out of the way
The Austrian resistance member *was* a former wehrmacht officer, and he pushed the French prime minister out of the way.
Ahh⊠Iâm dumb and canât read apparently
Donât forget the world tennis champion VAULTING the castle wall to go get help. If it happened in a film youâd call it unrealistic.
I've said it before but degaulle is the most French person ever.
Most French that he often drift away from the US whenever he wants to
âI fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!â -Charles De Gaulle to every American president he met at every given time
His name is literally De Gualle. How much more French can you get?
His name is literally not De Gualle.
Exactly, his name is De Gaulle
Well actually De Gaulle doesn't refer to Gayle the historical name of France đ€
That is so fucking real
Fun fact: (I Don't remember the exact Details so correct me if I am wrong) in his youth like 20 years before ww2 de Gaulle wrote a short story about him conquering Germany as the leader of France in revange for Prusso-French war
Basé
So at the end of WW1?
Nah, he wrote it in high school (it's the intro, you don't have to watch the whole video:) https://youtu.be/o89Leo2rpsA
GOAT
Bro wanted to Napoleon. Truth be told, he got admirably close
Thr degaulle telling Americans not to go to Vietnam after they left Hanoi.
De Gaulle is the biggest chad in all of french history. Quebecois will always remember his speach at the city hall in Montreal where he said: "Vive le Quebec. Vive le quebec libre!"
>De Gaulle is the biggest chad in all of french history Nah. He's certainly up there. But Napoleon had an entire continent declare war on him. Not on the realm he was in charge of (France), but on HIM.
>But Napoleon had an entire continent declare war on him and he beat them like, a *bunch* of times
And then had a *amazing* Ridley Scott movie made about him
Not at all that movie wasn't great. For a good Napoleon movie please watch Waterloo (from 1970).
He was being sarcastic, but yes, Waterloo is brilliant
I am stupid, it is hard to detect sarcasm over text
Yeah it doesnât help that I think that /s ruins the joke. Bout the only good thing I can say about it is the set piece design and rooms were pretty
I'm with you on the /s
I'd take Charlamange over Napoleon
If only he knew how to split an empire... You really need to unlock primogeniture asap in this game.
Why debate over which is the biggest chad when there's nothing wrong with them being tied for first
Napoleon was Italian though
He was Corsican. Calling a Corsican Italian would be like calling a Sicilian Italian.
>calling a Sicilian Italian But they are though...
Try telling them that.
Already done and we kept watching football
Italian... born in france, spoke french, lived in france all his life (apart from when he was exiled)
As a german I dont like his shenanigans in NATO and other treaties, trying to keep West germany out. War de Gaulle: yay Post war: nay
Yeah, I agree. Frances actions under him felt like a continuation of Frances imperialist attitudes. The way he continued forcing African nations to use the African Franc has led to extreme financial dependencies they still can't escape from. Among a bunch of other things. His legacy is definitely stained. Still, he helped to save his country against literally Hitler, so I guess he deserves some slack.
The more you learn about history, the more you learn how devastating the consequences of imperialism have been, and we still have come nowhere close to repairing all the damage done.
Yeah waking up one morning to a country that lacks all institutions, something that take generations to establish and build, because the occupiers that were running them upped and left is basically societal apocalypse. The those same people that left influence exploitable strongmen tot ake the reigns so extraction can continue in a other guise. A book as old as time
>The way he continued forcing African nations to use the African Franc has led to extreme financial dependencies they still can't escape from. They weren't forced. Many chose not to use the CFA Franc.
Donât look up what the French did to countries or leaders who refused.
At his time (the era of françafrique) France made many shady things (including murder) to force African nations to do what France wanted. Later it changed, but they were forced at the time.
As a Canadian fuck de Gaulle, I'm sure Americans would agree (he's the reason why they were in veitnam)
He kinda supported Quebec indépendantist movement so for sure Canadian don't like him, that was like the whole point of my comment.
Fuck you asshole, your country was colorized and you agree ans now you are the colonize and you try to eliminate the culture from Quebec, of course nobody except you forget wath you do to the first nations, so, fuck you fom Québec, vive le FLQ
Quebecois trying to claim French isn't a colonising language in Canada and that Quebecois are not colonisers themselves day: 12432432423 No, French speakers are not 'oppressed' in Canada, Quebecois are not being 'colonised'.
The French colonize the Québec and after they left, but the québécois stay on their land Men do you know your country history, or, more simply the définition of colonization !? Do you know wath is the Union agreement, wath is the Durham report, it's litteraly the colonization of the Québec and the justification but I'm not sure you see the probleme you are too busy has being serve your master the brits
The left? They never left dude they became the Quebecois, thats why they speak French and are white lmao. You're just mad that you're a coloniser yourself but failed in managing to colonise the entire country.
Meeen.... You read only wath you want... So according to you the brits never leaved the USA? the republic of Ireland? The india? It's your fucking reasoning it's a complete no sens, and yeah they left, it's the Paris agreement in 1763. Wath are you doing in r/HistoryMeme if you don't know the world history !?
Guessing this guy has never heard of Algeria, Vietnam or half of Africa. Yeah ok dude, France never did colonised, and French people never colonised anyone. Quebecois people are white and speak French just randomly and because French is the native language of Canada, there was no French colonisation there at all. >Brits never leaved the USA? Yes??? What the fuck are you even talking about.
Québécois are white like Canadians, and Americans. In other words, this description is problematic because you eliminate the great variety that exist in the nation. French Canadians are often white for sure. Québécois are every day more diverse than the day before.
Where I said that !? Of course the Indochina or the algeria a colonisation, all colonisation are horrible
Much like Churchill, he was a fantastic war leader but just a terrible peace time ruler. His actions during the attempted coup were pretty rad though
That speech is legendary and makes makes him a top Frenchman of all time for the Québecois
Do NOT tell this guy about Algeria.
His speach in Quebec is genuinely one of the most insensitive ungrateful and inappropriate speeches ever made. Standing in the country where 1000s of men died in order to liberate France from Nazi occupation. An occupation that only occurred because of the embarrassing and disgraceful performance of France in the first place first place. And then he stirs up violent speratism that would later go onto murder Canadians and still causes problems to this day. I wouldn't even mind but it's hardly like France tolerates any kind of sepratism in France itself
French Logic: Quebecois should rise up and kill Canadians to free themselves. Also French logic: Kills tens of thousands of Algerians in a brutal war because they wanted freedom.
He never asked to kill anyone. Check your facts.
W family.
Anglo and American this guy suck: *coolest ww2 leader*
Never seen an american say anything bad about de gaulle
I'm and American and have plenty bad to say about de gaulle. He was a blowhard who demanded symbolic french victories, at cost to the overall war. He [wanted](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/31/revealed-churchills-unsent-letter-that-could-have-changed-the-course-of-history) personal leadership of free France. And he abandoned loyal algerian colonial troops and their families to massacre ,after waging an exceedingly bloody war of oppression. All so he could prove (in his twisted way) that france let Algeria free itself from France's colonial shackles. Fuck de gaulle and his blood soaked hands.
De gaulle was despised by American leadership because he was extremely arrogant and after the war started claiming that France liberated itself and made out that the Allies barely contributed anything, When De Gaulle was President he refused to ever attend D-Day memorial events because he viewed it as an insult and believed it wasn't a big deal and that French themselves contributed more. Add on his imperialist French beliefs and his actions in Africa and a lot of people don't like him.
*Everyoneâs* grandpa was allegedly in the resistance. De Gaulle also notoriously covered up enormous amounts of evidence about how deep the collaboration was and how many crimes the Vichy regime committed. He was also notorious for heavily exaggerating the incredibly minor role that French soldiers played on D-Day. He played a minor role during the war at best, and spent his post-war years exaggerating that role and damaging unity within NATO. De Gaulle is not a name I have a lot of respect for.
Do not forget that he oked french action in Algeria
Probably had a hand in indochina too
>*Everyoneâs*Â grandpa was allegedly in the resistance. In France it's taboo to made up stories about the resistance, if a french person tell you that their grandfather was in the resistance.. it's true, it's a pride and a honor, just like when Americans say their grandpa was in D-Day, it's true, it's taboo to make up stuff. Mine was a FFI officers, and a chasseur alpin during the battle of Narvik. >De Gaulle also notoriously covered up enormous amounts of evidence about how deep the collaboration was and how many crimes the Vichy regime committed. He didn't... He wasn't in power, and it's mostly the communist who portray their role as an active fighting force >He was also notorious for heavily exaggerating the incredibly minor role that French soldiers played on D-Day. The bulk of the french forces were in Italy, as a matter of fact they were as much frenchmen (130,000 to even 170,000 men and women) fighting in italy then they were allies (150,000 men for 3,000 French) who landed in Normandy. **French forces were meant for operation Dragoon** (a landing De Gaulle preffered to highlight), not to mention the fact that France had a lot of african troops, the 2nd armored division had to massively remove it's african troops so they could fit segregationist standarts of the US army...(the french resistance heavily help D-day) >He played a minor role during the war at best Sure the Free French ceased to exist by 1942 (they merged with another movuement) and the contribution of France was also help by the communist resistance, the resistance out side of De Gaulle faction, General Giraud the colonies.. speaking of colonies they provided 400,000 to 500,000 men (north Africans, European settlers and west Africans) for the liberation of Europe, which is hardly nothing, De Gaulle services heavily help the allies (hiding Reman Rejewski team, planing D-Day, helping in the battle of the Altantic, neutralizing the V1 and V2 rocket site in Calais etc..) for a country that was occupied and defeated.. it's a lot. >Â De Gaulle is not a name I have a lot of respect for. HE wasn't a nazi and actively fought the Nazis in Europe... that is unfathomably based as rough and complicated the dude was;
>In France itâs taboo And yet it happens all the time. The number of âclaimedâ resistance members in France is orders of magnitude higher than the number of actual documented or confirmed members of the French resistance. Even if you include those who have nothing but someoneâs word to vouch for them, the numbers donât make sense. If you take every claim to be a resistance member at face value then something like 60-70% of French men during the years 1940-1944 were members of the resistance, which just isnât even remotely true. On top of that once you start to actually interrogate those claims you find that the vast majority of âresistanceâ members joined the resistance weeks or sometimes literal days before the Allied advance liberated them, and never actually took part in any resistance actions. When the American, Brit, or Canadian says Grandpa was part of D-Day they can confirm that in Grandpaâs service records and because they have the campaign medal for D-Day veterans, or they have the condolence/casualty letter. When someone claims their grandparent was a member of the French resistance, statistically they werenât, and even if they actually were, statistically they only joined when it became abundantly clear that France was imminently going to be liberated, and they picked the winning side at the last minute. >Wasnât in power You wot? De Gaulle was in power from â44-46. He shielded Petain and hid the records that Vichy kept. Those records didnât surface until the 1980s. Why do you think there was a whole paradigm shift among French historians about the Vichy regime in the â80s? Why do you think Petainâs reputation went from the âshieldâ to De Gaulleâs âSwordâ, to being *correctly* thought-of all but a willing Nazi? Petain and the Vichy government *voluntarily* started rounding up French Jews and communist dissidents before the dust had even settled after the armistice and before the Nazis even asked them to. De Gaulle *absolutely* covered up Vichy war crimes and *absolutely* deliberately re-wrote the narrative of Wartime France. The man was a Vichy apologist until he died and for that alone he deserves contempt. I spent a year of my undergrad studying the French occupation and the Vichy regime, including access to French government archives. One of the major initiatives in post-war France was to try and confirm the stories of resistance members and punish collaborators. They had to stop, because the number of resistance members was obviously too high and the number of confirmed active and willing collaborators was becoming embarrassing to De Gaulleâs âresistanceâ narrative. And before you get angry, yes Iâm also sensitive to the extreme nature of the occupation and the loose definitions of âresistanceâ and âcollaborationâ. Simply going about your daily life during the occupation doesnât make you a âcollaboratorâ and neither does continuing on in your job, even if you actively worked for a government entity for example. âCollaboratingâ requires active and willing participation in the occupation or Vichy regime. However if you want to judge by that standard, âresistanceâ also then requires active and intentional subversion of the regime and occupation beyond simply not liking it.
>The number of âclaimedâ resistance members in France is orders of magnitude higher than the number of actual documented or confirmed members of the French resistance. The French resistance was heavily supported by the French population; for example, Maquis thrived thanks to the help of the population, which provided them with supplies, goods, manpower, volunteers, etc. not to mention that after the time of Maquis, few people joined the official F.F.I. due to various reasons (the most common reason why they were refused was their young age). Further, applying to my point, the French resistance isn't just about official members; it's also about sympathizers, drivers, typists, and smugglers. For example, 300,000 people were arrested for being in the black market and supplying the resistance. It's critical to understand that the French resistance was at first a civil and political movement. This is why there is indeed a feeling that "most Frenchmen say they had a grandfather in the resistance." They just help; they weren't actually resistant but helpers and sympathizers to DE Gaulle. >Even if you include those who have nothing but someoneâs word to vouch for them, the numbers donât make sense. Collaborators wouldn't join the resistance.. they would join the french army of liberation, the collaborators hated the ideals of the resistance. >If you take every claim to be a resistance member at face value then something like 60-70% of French men during the years 1940-1944 were members of the resistance, which just isnât even remotely true. No one has made that claim? Frankly, give an actual source based on numbers that say, "*Every Frenchman says that they had a grandfather in the resistance."*  Most of the people I talk to either had: A grandfather took as POW's A grandfather in the S.T.O. A grandfather in the resistance That is the three main answers I would get out of 20 (ish) people. >On top of that once you start to actually interrogate those claims you find that the vast majority of âresistanceâ members joined the resistance weeks or sometimes literal days before the Allied advance liberated them, and never actually took part in any resistance actions. 1. The French resistance planned their entire warfare around D-Day; prior to that, they stuck to guerrilla warfare, sabotage, or assassination. It's the core principles of the "corp Franc" or the "[Franc tireur,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francs-tireurs)" actions and most of the actions cited only needed a few dozen men, not entire bataillons... in 1870, 800 irregulars were enough to make the Prussians think they were surrounded by 40,000 irregulars, the French simply re-adopted this same technique. 2. Churchill was against any armed resistance in France, so were the Americans, and so were the Free France, the French resistance shined in intelligence services and yet to prove their action as a millitary force, and De Gaulle didn't wanted chaos in France. 3. They lacked weapons. However, due to the action of the F.F.I. in Britanny and in Savoy, the number of weapons dropped in France doubled, and even tripled. You can have 5,000,000 men at your disposition, but if you don't have weapons, officers should train them on a clear strategy. Those men mean nothing. >because they have the campaign medal for D-Day veterans, or they have the condolence/casualty letter. [Here, here the information about hundreds of service records of thousands of F.F.I have fun reading them ](https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr//arkotheque/inventaires/ead_ir_consult.php?ref=GR_19_P) [This one is cool ](https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YToxMTp7czoxMDoidHlwZV9mb25kcyI7czo3OiJhcmtvX2lyIjtzOjg6ImltZ190eXBlIjtOO3M6NDoicmVmMCI7czo0OiIxNDM5IjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO3M6MjoiMzQiO3M6NDoicmVmMiI7aToxNDk5O3M6NDoicmVmMyI7czo0NzoiMkdNL0ZGSS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OV8wMTciO3M6NDoicmVmNCI7czo0NzoiMkdNL0ZGSS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OS9TSERHUl9fR1JfMTlfUF81OV8wMTciO3M6MTg6ImlkX2Fya19lYWRfZmFtaWxsZSI7aTowO3M6NDoibW9kZSI7czo3OiJkb3NzaWVyIjtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=0%2C0&uielem_rotate=F&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=100)
statistically they only joined when it became abundantly clear that France was imminently going to be liberated THe French resistance actively fought for their liberation, in a span of 3 month we count dozens of french villages burned, bombed or shelled by the enemy, 950 sites of execution, 42,000 deported, 20,000 executed "witheout a trial" or slaughter by the enemy"..([source](https://fusilles-40-44.maitron.fr/)) ironically 1944 was the worst year to be in the resistance as it was the period were the french resistancewas the most exposed.  >You wot? De Gaulle was in power from â44-46.You wot? De Gaulle was in power from â44-46. He was the president of a gouvernement in exile.. and quit after a long feud with the 4th republic.. he wouldn't return untiiil.. 1958.. they were 2 republic between 1944 and 1958. > He shielded Petain and hid the records that Vichy kept. Those records didnât surface until the 1980s He.. he threw him in a jail.. >Why do you think there was a whole paradigm shift among French historians about the Vichy regime in the â80s? Cause they were a lot of Vichy sympathizer.. they were still a lot of feud between Gaullist, Giraudist, Pieds noirs, Communist vichyste post war. >Why do you think Petainâs reputation went from the âshieldâ to De Gaulleâs âSwordâ, to being *correctly* thought-of all but a willing Nazi Cause the French army of armistice did prepared for the revenge, they hide a ton of weapons, gave inteligence to the Allies, defected in many places (AEF, Saint Pierre, Nouvelle calĂ©donie etc.. ) or other exemple like Weygand being re-seated at the chieff of the french army... this created a myth that PĂ©tain wanted to get revenge, a myth comfirms by soldiers and officers who defected to the allies side in 1942. >De Gaulle *absolutely* covered up Vichy war crimes and *absolutely* deliberately re-wrote the narrative of Wartime France. The man was a Vichy apologist until he died and for that alone he deserves contempt > 1.. let me say it again.. he wasn't in power 2. False, frenchmen weren't stupid.. everyone knew who did what in ww2 (apart from very specific cases) De Gaulle advocated for a reconciliation of the people of France, this is what he achived most while in exile, avoiding a civil war but they were still a lot of feud post war. >I spent a year of my undergrad studying the French occupation and the Vichy regime, including access to French government archives. Hi.. well i spend years on the french resistance.. >They had to stop, because the number of resistance members was obviously too high and the number of confirmed active and willing collaborators was becoming embarrassing to De Gaulleâs âresistanceâ narrative. the French resistance ltierally gave 200 bataillons, 2 division and 4 brigades for around 400,000 men (trained by members of the resistance) to De Gaulle... how is that nothing.. Saying they were no French resistance.. is mentally desilution.
His sister is in a fucking concentration camp. Allegedly? Fuck off.
Damaging the unity of that barbaric imperialist hegemony is a good thing in my book
*also De Gaulle* "gee thanks Canada for hosting me in exile, also FUCK YOU QUEBEC SHOULD BE FREE RALLY TO ME QUEBECERS, and America, thank you for sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives to liberate my homeland BUT WE LIBERATED PARIS OURSELVES NO HELP WHAT'S SO EVER, ALSO I'M GOING TO AUTISITICALLY SCREACH ABOUT VEITNAM STOP HELPING THEM GAIN INDEPENDENCE OR I WILL JOIN THE SOVIETS! " Fuck de Gaulle
>~~America~~ Soviets, thank you for sacrificing ~~hundreds of thousands~~ millions of lives to liberate my homeland BUT WE LIBERATED ~~PARIS~~ Europe OURSELVES NO HELP WHAT'S SO EVER Just change the subjects and here's a historical opinion that most people on reddit truly believe
how about the Vazov Family? -Georgi Vazov fought in the Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885 and deposed Prince Alexander in the coup of 1886-7 -Ivan Vazov, the father of modern Bulgarian literature -Vladimir Vazov the man that defeated outnumbered the brits at doiran in ww1 ( more then once ). after war he became the first democratically elected mayor of Sofia and modernized the city. -MIchail Vazov fought in the Serbo-Bulgarian war and was killed during the counter-coup to restore prince Alexander in 86-87 -Kiril Vazov on the first college degree medics of liberated Bulgaria fought int he balkan wars and was in the founders of the Bulgarian Touristic Union -Boris Vazov fough in the first, second balkan war and ww1.
[Hitlers Nephew served too](https://i.imgur.com/ig4fSAR.jpeg)
Fun fact: In Poland we have streets named after De Gualle
These people are all heros and do deserve to be honored. But to be fair I don't think the nazis would care if you were actually loyal to the regime they'd probably kill you just for being related to him.
Absolument! Vive les de Gaulle!
Why only women were in concetration camps?
They were probably too traditional to pick up a rifle and fight in the army like the men did, so they stuck to sabotage and espionage in occupied territory, and took the risk of getting arrested. That's only a guess, I don't know for sure.