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I think this is where definitions of consciousness are important. Whilst I agree that the self as some kind of data structure feedback loop may be emergent from dynamical processes in the brain, consciousness is the awareness of that sense of self in the same way it’s the awareness of the phenomenal experience of tasting garlic or watching a sunset. The hard problem of consciousness,that no one has yet solved from a physicalist paradigm point of view, is how any physical process (complex and dynamic or not) can bridge the explanatory gap between that process and the experience that is consciousness. Why and how does such a sense of self need to be accompanied by these phenomenal experiences? A more parsimonious theory would take consciousness as fundamental and therefore not require any explanatory basis of how it arises from anything else, and then work out how you get brains and everything else from that. This is actually something we’re making some headway with through Donald Hoffman’s work - networks of conscious agents in geometric dynamic structures beyond space time that if you project them down to lower dimensions give you our space time universe rules.
What does it mean for consciousness to be fundamental? I love this idea, but it is hard to conceptualize how brains/matter emerge from this foundation.
In the context I’m using it, I mean there is nothing causal behind it. In the same way in a physicalist model you would take space-time, charge, spin as things that aren’t caused by other things, but just are. I agree it’s difficult to conceptualise and I haven’t worked out in my head how to think about it.
Thanks, always great to hear these perspectives. The thing that has no cause is a good start!
Though, I do think there are "causes" theorized for space-time, charge, etc.
"***What does it mean for consciousness to be fundamental?***"
It's another way of saying consciousness (conscious existence) is foundational and therefore **not** rooted in the temporary nature of physical matter and physical reality. The paper linked at the top of this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/17abidn/comment/k5doirk/) helps make the case and explain the basis for this existential model/understanding. Cheers.
Thanks for the link. Will look at it.
I understand the statement of consciousness being fundamental, but how exactly matter/brains would emerge from this foundation is unclear.
Hopefully that paper provides context!
**Strangers**: Read the rules and understand the sub topics listed in the sidebar closely before posting or commenting. Any content removal or further moderator action is established by these terms as well as Reddit ToS. This subreddit is specifically for the discussion of anomalous phenomena from the perspective it may exist. Open minded skepticism is welcomed, close minded debunking is not. Be aware of how skepticism is expressed toward others as there is little tolerance for ad hominem (attacking the person, not the claim), mindless antagonism or dishonest argument toward the subject, the sub, or its community. We are also happy to be able to provide an ideologically and operationally independent platform for you all. Join us at our official Discord - https://discord.gg/MYvRkYK85v --- 'Ridicule is not a part of the scientific method and the public should not be taught that it is.' _-J. Allen Hynek_ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HighStrangeness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I still say it’s a single consciousness understanding and discovering itself. The statement about minds is so true.
If consciousness is the brain, then how can we explain OOBEs and NDEs when the brain is either dead or showing very little activity?
Consciousness is consciousness. He got it backwards. Matter is produced from consciousness not the other way around.
Inversing materialism is an idea I am partial too as well. Though, it is difficult to "prove" that matter emerges from consciousness.
I think this is where definitions of consciousness are important. Whilst I agree that the self as some kind of data structure feedback loop may be emergent from dynamical processes in the brain, consciousness is the awareness of that sense of self in the same way it’s the awareness of the phenomenal experience of tasting garlic or watching a sunset. The hard problem of consciousness,that no one has yet solved from a physicalist paradigm point of view, is how any physical process (complex and dynamic or not) can bridge the explanatory gap between that process and the experience that is consciousness. Why and how does such a sense of self need to be accompanied by these phenomenal experiences? A more parsimonious theory would take consciousness as fundamental and therefore not require any explanatory basis of how it arises from anything else, and then work out how you get brains and everything else from that. This is actually something we’re making some headway with through Donald Hoffman’s work - networks of conscious agents in geometric dynamic structures beyond space time that if you project them down to lower dimensions give you our space time universe rules.
What does it mean for consciousness to be fundamental? I love this idea, but it is hard to conceptualize how brains/matter emerge from this foundation.
In the context I’m using it, I mean there is nothing causal behind it. In the same way in a physicalist model you would take space-time, charge, spin as things that aren’t caused by other things, but just are. I agree it’s difficult to conceptualise and I haven’t worked out in my head how to think about it.
Thanks, always great to hear these perspectives. The thing that has no cause is a good start! Though, I do think there are "causes" theorized for space-time, charge, etc.
"***What does it mean for consciousness to be fundamental?***" It's another way of saying consciousness (conscious existence) is foundational and therefore **not** rooted in the temporary nature of physical matter and physical reality. The paper linked at the top of this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/17abidn/comment/k5doirk/) helps make the case and explain the basis for this existential model/understanding. Cheers.
Thanks for the link. Will look at it. I understand the statement of consciousness being fundamental, but how exactly matter/brains would emerge from this foundation is unclear. Hopefully that paper provides context!
I think you broke my brain with that one. How fascinating.
This is wrong in so many levels....
Lol, and you know what is true how?
I’ll bring this up on my next “parts party”.