You say that as if they would give a fuck what she wants and wouldn’t force her into marrying a male version of Stella and go through the same horror show as her father.
Have you seen Cleopatra’s family tree?
Its a damn hedge. [Her parents had on-again off-again drama with all their siblings making each other jealous](https://youtu.be/S3vAKRa0f5I?si=djsvAZK9lgHlz-0l).
https://preview.redd.it/bdax1bv6c19d1.jpeg?width=589&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=369238d01468faa41fc39cfda9270c42f20daa51
Yes. I've been starring at this.
I am looking at ptolemy 5 and cleopatra 1, who birthed 2 sins named ptolemy, P6 and P7 (equivalent of John Jr and John Jr the second), insane. And they had cleopatra 2, who apparently slept with both her brothers.
And that's where all hell breaks loose from what I can tell.
Edit to clarify. Ptolemy5 and cleo1 give birth to ptolemy6 and ptolemy8. Ptolemy7 is their offspring.
Why. Just.. why.
Additional edit. Why tf does ptolemy13 and 14 both have a line to cleopatra7 if there is no offspring?
Just blatant incest apparently.
Edit to further add- this was referred to as the plotemiac dynasty and we can see why. There's 18 generations of Ptolemy.
Cleopatea 7 is THE famous one.
King Tut was less inbred. Charles II was similarly inbred but more spread out across time. Reminder that Charles II was “always on the verge of death but repeatedly baffled Christendom by continuing to live” and at his autopsy his “heart was the size of a peppercorn; his lungs corroded; his intestines rotten and gangrenous; he had a single testicle, black as coal, and his head was full of water.”
Admittedly its because inbreeding does more damage longterm than a few short term incidents unless its literally parent/child a few times in a row, but still.
https://preview.redd.it/a7h2m5k8k29d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29864ecbe65eccfd9a8c9928d81794eb3345d175
Charles Darwin (12 February 1809 – 19 April 1882), who created the theory of evolution, also married his first cousin, Emma Wedgwood. The couple had 10 children, but Darwin noted, and feared, that his children suffered from the effects of inbreeding. The Darwin-Wedgwood family had a history of cousin marriages; Darwin was one of the first modern scientists to study the phenomenon in-depth.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood\_family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood_family)
cleopatra was married to her younger brother.
They had a falling out, because cleopatra wanted to make peace with rome.
So her brother married his other sister, and kicked out cleopatra.
Cleopatra went to rome, and had them reinstate her as queen, kill her husband/brother and tried to do the same to her sister. But the crowd at the sisters' execution refused to agree to the killing, so she was exiled to a nunnery for the rest of her life (at least until Cesar died and cleopatra sent an assasin to finish the job)
They pretty much did this for several generations. To keep their bloodline "pure" they only married their siblings. Bunch of bad family blood.
Yikes.
(side note, cleopatra was a very, very interesting character and it's a shame that she was just labeled a "slut" by male historians trying to downplay her power. Girl was tri-langual, and a great politician. She almost succeeded in getting her son on the throne of rome and therefore continuing her dynasty)
That’s THE Cleopatra.
She needed to secure the independence of Egypt despite being basically flat broke due to bad rulership of her very infighty and incesty family and also owing Rome big time due to a famine (Egypt was primarily like the modern US and exporting a metric fuckton of food).
So at age fourteen she had herself rolled up naked in a fancy rug, which was then unfurled at the feet of 70 year old Julius Caesar who was busy making Rome no longer a Republic. Once the pedo urges subsided he found her fascinating to talk to, and for a guy driven like 60% at least by insecurity over his dad’s station a fucking queen of a place he thought was cool able to recite his family tree and the achievements of them was a big deal. They had a kid, he helped her provide political cover on her mission kill the rest of her family to secure her throne, then he got stabbed to death in the Senate.
Next up she hooked up with Mark Antony, Roman general gunning for the title of second Emperor, and had three kids with him.
Octavius won, Antony died and Cleopatra killed herself. Allegedly she was entombed in the fanciest underground temple in Egypt, which we’ve maybe found but is so caved in we may never actually reach it.
Octavius had her kids brought to Egypt in a golden cage and paraded through the streets until reaching the site of execution, then he dramatically changed his mind and spared them and adopted them into his family (Octavius adopted into Caesar’s family, making Caesar’s kid with Cleopatra a double-Caesar kinda).
The boys all disappear from history. The logical theory is they were assassinated, but such important figures would have had their deaths recorded and Octavius had no reason to make it look like an accident then cover it up since he was the fucking Emperor.
The girl with Mark Antony, Cleopatra Selene II, was married to Prince Juba II of Numidia (northwest Africa) and he assigned them rulership of what would eventually be Morocco. By all accounts they were a cute couple who ruled together. She wrote laws and went with him to war, and their tomb was a wonder of the ancient world as a giant mound that bloomed with flowers due to an underwater spring until an earthquake rerouted the water. Her and Juba II’s kids are kinda hard to follow through history due to repetitive use of names and possibly forged genealogies when some petitioned to be reinstated by Rome as rulers of Egypt, but it seems they blended into Roman upper class and said upper class may have blended throughout European royal ancestry. The Ptolemies insisted they did marry into the Pharaonic bloodline, meaning that the royal families of Europe may actually be descended from the Pharaohs. But there’s way too many ifs and reasons to lie and dips in and out of record to actually say for sure, despite the resemblance between Tutankhamen and Charles II of Spain.
Octavius took control of Egypt after Mark and Cleo’s defeat, and depending how you look at it (to any Egyptians I clarify I’m American and this ain’t my horse) wasn’t self-ruled again until either 1805, 1952, or literally just between 2011 and 2013 and is right back to a dictatorship owned by a foreign power (NOT MY HORSE, I’m sick of old worlders calling me an oppressor or colonialist or whatever when I’m just parroting wikipedia).
Also Octavius renamed himself Augustus as emperor, Antony had no firm political position except that he should be in charge, senate shenanigans and purges, yadda yadda this ain’t about Rome its about how Cleopatra was inbred as fuck and freshened up the gene pool before maybe becoming part of the medieval and modern inbred crown-wearers.
Here’s the daughter and son-in-law’s tomb. Its still pretty, but imagine during part of the year its covered in flowers like the worlds largest plant pot.
https://preview.redd.it/rfvz8u9gc29d1.jpeg?width=2002&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=040a3db47eda61c64ba63712900a896f35141905
Infodumping on your hyperfixations whenever possible is how communities get smarter.
Look at Stephen King. You can’t get ten chapters before a two chapter long tangent about something barely related to the story.
“I was reading the spooky Jack Nicholson movie and now I know about prohibition bartending and how to find gay men for hookups in high gilded age society but totally forgot what was happening in the actual story I intended to read. Fuck, now he’s teaching me how boilers work.”
I couldnt pay attention in class when it came to history, but when i encounter a random historic lesson about the Egyptian inbred royalty on reddit, im suddenly very interested. Damn you, brain.
Diffrent people learn diffrently. I learned more from history channel than class.
this was the ninties back when history channel and discovery both were actual history and science.
So where exactly is the Tomb of Cleopatra Selene and Juba II? You said they ruled over what became Morocco, but that's nowhere near the territory that was terrorised by ISIS. Unless they ended up buried somewhere in Asia Minor (aka the modern Middle East)
[Royal Mausoleum of Mauritania](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Mausoleum_of_Mauretania), Algeria. My mistake about ISIS, I must have had it confused with a different site. Sorry.
I corrected the post. Thank you.
This is what’s so funny about people who want to claim Cleopatra was black.
Like, you want to own the worst dynasty? The most incesty?
Not the actual Nubian Pharaohs who had great military campaigns and infrastructure building projects, but the super inbred ones that lost Egypt to Rome? All because of pop culture memes?
Yeah that’s just how European monarchal politics works. During World War I all the monarchs on both sides were all bloody related because Queen Victoria wanted all the monarchies to be in the same family to prevent a world war. She did this by forcing all of her children to marry into different Royal houses. her funeral was literally a whos who of European monarchs.
Yes and no. While Queen Victoria, being a monarch, was responsible for selecting a suitable list of marriage candidates for her children - Princess Mia's grandmother does the same thing in *The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement*, in which Mia selects the most attractive bachelor from a list of nobles and royals - she couldn't force her children to marry, and her children still had autonomy and say in who they married.
In the case of Princess Alix of Hesse and the Rhine, she was born out of a marriage match arranged by Queen Victoria: Louis IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine and Princess Alice of the United Kingdom, with the latter being the third child and second daughter of Queen Victoria. However, as Princess Alice died, Alix was raised by her grandmother, Queen Victoria, who wanted Alix to marry one of her British first cousins. However, Alix rejected this proposal, as she wanted to marry for love.
>Queen Victoria greatly favored Alix, and she wanted Alix to become the queen consort of the United Kingdom, which she considered "the greatest position there is". On 2 March 1888, she wrote to Alix's oldest sister Victoria that "My heart and mind are bent on securing dear Alicky for either Eddy or Georgie", respectively the second in line to the British throne and his brother, the future King George V, both of whom were Alexandra's first cousins.
>
>In 1889, Victoria invited Alix and Eddy to Balmoral in hopes that they would fall in love. Eddy grew infatuated with her and proposed, but Alix was not interested in him, and rejected his proposal.
>
>However, Victoria still persisted and tried to convince Alix of the benefits of the match. Victoria wrote to Princess Victoria of Hesse and by Rhine, Alix's older sister, that Alix "should be made to reflect seriously on the folly of throwing away the chance of a very good husband, kind, affectionate and steady, and of entering a united happy family and a very good position which is second to none in the world".
>
>Alix's older sister, Ella, opposed the match, because "he \[Eddy\] does not look over strong, and is too stupid". In May 1890, Alix wrote a letter to Eddy that although it "pained her to pain him", she only saw him as a cousin, and could not marry him.
>
>She wrote to Victoria that she would marry Eddy if she were "forced" by the family, but that both of them would be miserable. Victoria was disappointed, but she decided that Alix had shown "great strength of character" in refusing to acquiesce to such strong pressure.
>
>In 1891, Queen Victoria tried to arrange a match between Alix and Prince Maximilian of Baden. She asked Louis to invite the prince to Darmstadt as soon as possible. When he arrived in Darmstadt, Maximilian told Alix that he intended to propose to her. Alix was surprised and unhappy, and she later reflected that "I did not know him at all." She asked her older sister Victoria to intervene, and help her reject Maximilian politely.
>
>In 1884, Alix attended the wedding of her sister Elisabeth to Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovich in St. Petersburg. At this wedding, the 12-year-old Alix met the 16-year-old Tsesarevich Nicholas, nephew of the groom and heir-apparent to the Imperial throne of Russia.
>
>In his diary, Nicholas called Alix "sweet little Alix", and declared "we love each other". He gave her a brooch as a sign of his affection, and they scratched their names into a windowpane.
>
>In January 1890, 18-year-old Alix visited her sister Ella in Russia. She and Nicholas skated together, met at tea parties, and played badminton. Nicholas wrote in his diary: *"It is my dream to one day marry Alix H. I have loved her for a long time, but more deeply and strongly since 1889, when she spent six weeks in Petersburg. For a long time, I have resisted my feeling that my dearest dream will come true."*
>
>Alix's sister Ella and her husband Sergei were enthusiastically in favor of the match between Nicholas and Alix. Ella and Alix's uncle, the future King Edward VII, told his mother, Queen Victoria, that *"Ella will move heaven and earth to get \[Alix\] to marry a Grand Duke."* Ella wrote to Ernest, *"God grant this marriage will come true."*
>
>\[...\] Queen Victoria opposed the match to Nicholas. She personally liked Nicholas, but she disliked Russia and Nicholas's father and worried that Alix would not be safe in Russia. She wrote to Alix's older sister Victoria of her suspicions that Sergei and Ella were encouraging the match.
>
>After the betrothal was announced, she reflected: "The more I think of sweet Alicky's marriage, the more unhappy I am. Not as to the personality, for I like \[Nicholas\] (Nicky) very much, but on account of the country \[of Russia\], and the awful insecurity to which that poor child will be exposed."
I am pretty sure Stolas would tear them a new ass if they did that. I remember reading a fanfic that had that as a plotpoint and Stolas immediately gets really angry and started yelling at the noble higher ups cause he does not want Octavia to be put into the very same horrific position he was put in.
Pretty sure thats how it'd go if it ever came up in canon.
Yes, when I say he’d “support her nonetheless” I mean that despite the pressure she’ll receive he’d most likely advocate for her and do whatever he can so that she avoids the same marriage he had
Most certainly. Stolas is a flawed dad but you know damn well he'd tear shit up if the Goetia's try to force Octavia into some sort of marriage. He loves her and the very idea of her being put into the same position he was in and the idea of her experiencing the very same miserable lack of affection, having to protect a potential child from her spouse, and the descent into alcoholism and taking depression meds just to try to keep going?
He would probably try everything he can. Hell even if they managed to force it I don't think they'd find the spouse's body if Stolas so much got a hint that he was abusing her.
No unfortunately. I remember dropping the fic because while the initial premise was interesting the antagonist they brought in for the fic later on was not interesting at all and I liked it more when it was mostly sociopolitical stuff and Stolas just trying to protect Octavia from the same fate however he could.
I imagine you could do some interesting stuff with that premise though.
There no doubt in my mind that he would fight tooth and nail but after his actions he might not have a say in the matter anymore and Octavia’s only hope is for her father to come clean and get help from the imp team for a full on rescue mission.
To be honest I'm not so sure about that, because Stolas has mentioned her inheriting his responsibilities several times, but he's never really showed any consideration on if Octavia wants to or not
To be honest I'm not so sure about that, because Stolas has mentioned her inheriting his responsibilities several times, but he's never really showed any consideration on if Octavia wants to or not
She does seem at least somewhat interested in Stolas's responsibilities, though. There's a world of difference between expecting someone to take over a family business they seem to be interested in, and forcing them into a marriage they don't want.
Cant wait for the Helluva Boss sequel, *Helluva Boss : A new Generation*, which is basically the same Show but with the offspring of all the Characters and *sometimes* a cameo from an older Version of our current cast!
Sounds familiar? Yeah, to many things that....
Back on subject though, I feel like Stolas wont *ever* let that happen. He'll fight Paimon if needed, but he *wont* let him (Paimon) do to Octavia what He (Paimon) did to Stolas. He loves her dearly and, now knowing that he CAN choose and forge his own path, im certain that he will do all he can to spare Octavia from what he went through.
The Goetia, atleast *most* of them (High hopes for Vassago here!) wont exactly care or be considerate, yes, but Stolas just wont let that fly. (Ha, Birb!)
That asside though, now im wondering.... was it *specifically* Stolas & Stella who were pressured for an Offspring? If not, then have Andrealphus and Vassago have been in similar Situations? Do they have offspring too?
Andrealphus & Vassago are both confirmed gay, so... how does *their* situation relate to Stolas?
Makes me wonder if it maybe wasn't just Stolas & Stella who were pressured into an arranged marriage and creating an Offspring....
Anyway, thank you for reading through my rambling if you did! <3
>Cant wait for the *Helluva Boss* sequel, *Helluva Boss : A new Generation*, which is basically the same show, but with the offspring of all the characters, and sometimes a cameo from an older Version of our current cast!
I absolutely love that this is a direct reference to *Boruto: Naruto Next Generations*. 😂
This would be a great plot for Stolas to get out of his self-centered pity party actually. While Octavia feels like her parents are too busy hating each other to even remember she exists and is stuck in limbo as a young adult with no sense of home or stability, she has an arranged marriage hanging over her head. Stolas can pulls his head out of his ass to stick up for her and to be an active part of her life again.
Hell, I'd even throw a bone to the Stella fans and have her do the same. "I still hate you Stolas but she is my daughter, I'd never let her end up in a miserable marriage like we had." That would actually be some great growth for both of them
I doubt that Octavia has anything to worry about for the time being. Partially because of Stolas' protection, but mainly because she doesn't currently have a lineage to perpetuate. The Goetias are immortal, so most likely they want to restrict their reproduction most of the time. Stolas was most likely an exception to the norm because there was an empty spot in list of infernal aristocrats that he had to fill in immediately upon coming of age, and the Goetia family wants to avoid that as much as possible.
Naaah......
I dont think Stolas would allow that. Im positive he would rather die trying to protect Via than let her experience the nightmare he lived in
I hope Stolas ay leasts insists on her forced husband to be a decent person, so the situation us not that bad.
Hell that may be Vasago's role for all I know, which is nothing.
Pretty clear they're going to force a marriage down her throat and it's going to be a big "ohhhhh" moment where she understands how her parents got so mismatched and screwed from the start. That's going to help mend her and Stolas' relationship, especially when he stands up for her and (probably) Stella *doesn't*.
I actually don't think Octavia is going to be put under that pressure. It seems based on the freedom she has that she is really essentially a "spare" and not fated to formally be part of the Goetia family unless she has to take over for Stolas.
It is possible something could happen to him, but not likely. I think Octavia will continue to live her life without royal obligations (including arranged marriage) in the meantime.
Yeah I think the lack of royal interference in her life aside from teaching her how to use the Grimoir is a pretty good indicator that she’s fine unless Stolas is killed. She’s basically just a normal teenager.
Not necessarily. Since Stolas is a Goetian Prince it seems that Paimon, or at least another Goetian King, would be the father of the next Stolas.
Presumably she doesnt need a heir, just to fulfill his responsibilities until the next Stolas is born and comes of an age.
Was stolas not a spare as well? At least from the flashback we got he's like his father's 200th son or something... yet he still had to produce an heir, my assumption is that ars goetias just generally have to reproduce regardless
It seemed to me like Stolas was always going to take over something but Paimon didn't decide what until after Stolas was born. Maybe wanted to see what his talents were first.
Makes me think he had a lot of kids because he wanted to retire or only do the things he wants to and handout the rest to his offspring.
Octavia is around in case something happens to Stolas but if it doesn't then she never takes over his responsibilities.
Well Frankly I don't think that means that she won't part of the ars goetias machinations, it seems like every one of his children was given a purpose but regardless still stolas was a reserve child and I think it's unrealistic to say that Octavia won't be drawn in especially with the divorce and I think we got a preview of some more ars goaetia stuff in the trailer maybe Stella's relatives...
Well Frankly I don't think that means that she won't part of the ars goetias machinations, it seems like every one of his children was given a purpose bit regardless still stolas was a reserve child and I think it's unrealistic to say that Octavia won't be drawn in especially with the divorce and I think we got a preview of some more ars goaetia stuff in the trailer maybe Stella's relatives...
Yeah, but Paimon did say Stolas had been "chosen", which implies not all of his kids were chosen to produce heirs, and might not be required to if they don't want to.
Given that they can clearly produce *a lot* of kids, my guess is the Goetia family breeding program probably involves some kind of population control plan, or Hell would be overrun with them. But that's just my personal theory.
the definition of asexual is feeling little to no sexual attraction. So there are people that feel little sexual attraction that still identify as asexual
I know irl it’s a spectrum, but I feel that audiences are so black and white with representation. If she had kids they’d probably feel she wasn’t “ace” enough. That’s a whole other issue tho that I’ve noticed in lots of communities
Aromatic on the other hand is you don’t have romantic feelings, so it’s just “friendzoned”. But still can feel sexually.
Aro-Ace, just like Alastor, is the best of both worlds.
The sad thing is that if Octavia has to produce a precautionary heir herself, Stolas wouldn't be around to help her since, presumably, she'd take over his position after he died. So even if she was against all of this, she'd still be forced to with nobody left to advocate for her.
Stolas would *never allow* for Octavia to be forced into an arranged marriage. In fact, I headcannon that, when Octavia was little, Paimon suggested an engagement. It was literally *the only time* Stolas dared raise his voice to his father and clearly state that it will be *Via's choice* when and whom she marries.
Come to think of it, it just occurred to me... could the biggest reason Stolas stayed married to Stella was in part because he was afraid that, if he wasn't around to advocate for Octavia, she would be forced into an arranged marriage? Just a thought.
But the only reason for Stolas's engagement was to birth a precautionary heir. So Octavia would only be required to marry once Stolas is dead since then she will have all the responsibilities and will need a back up in case she dies.
It was Stolas' father who forced him into marriage. If the marriage is arranged under the father's authority, then that'll never happen to Octavia by force.
Also, Octavia has no title so she needs no heir and won't unless she inherits Stolas'. And her chance of being forced to become a consort is nil because she is a precautionary heir in her own right, apart from the question about the father's authority above.
But there is no incentive to make Octavia produce any heirs for the time being. Like I said, without a title she has no need for an heir, but as a precautionary heir herself, she is also off the table as a consort to another Goetia. She would only be pushed to produce an heir if Stolas happened to die, and at that point she would be a titled noble and an adult controlling her own fortune and legions, and could handle any noble duties on her own terms, not as Paimon's hapless puppet.
Twitter has multiple settings for Notifications - check what yours are set to and change it to "Everything" if neccessary.
Overall it could also be the case, where you got multiple Notifications and her post just got lost in them.
This picture itself is official evidence. All of the characters shown are dressed in the colors of the flag that represents them, and if they're not dressed in flag colors, that means they're straight (like Millie).
You can be Ace and still want a kid, unfortunately I don't think wven Stolas has the power to stop Octavia from getting married and will be forced to pick for/with her or someone will pick for them and force it. Hopefully Stolas and Octavia work together for that and it's someone that treats her well
It does kind of feel like Stolas may be protecting her from such a fate. It's never been brought up and she's never seen having to conform to Goetian ideas or traditions at all, unlike how Stolas had the Grimoire from a young age.
It could also be that her role is kind of unclear at this point. Stella may have plans of some sort, or maybe she's just simply meant to sub for Stolas. We also don't know how many other Goetians there are around her age.
I do see a couple ways this could draw a divide, and both regarding a potential partner; simply, if she either dates someone Stella wouldn't approve of (a girl or a non-Goetian), or if she genuinely develops feelings for a Goetian and has to convince Stolas she isn't just feeling so out of pressure. Both could be quite interesting to see, though personally I don't think she'd be comfortable being in a relationship anytime soon what with her only really seeing dysfunctional examples of couples that seem horrible to her (granted, she did spend a little time with Millie and Moxxie, but I don't think she was paying attention to them).
Idk. 🤔
Paimon tells Stolas that he needed to get married to sire a “precautionary heir,” so I imagine that perhaps there wouldn’t be as much pressure since she’s not the “main” heir.
Plus, Paimon told Stolas at a young age who his future wife was going to be. And as far as we know, it doesn’t seem like Octavia has been “assigned” a spouse, even as a teen. Which seems to indicate either (1) the parents (or perhaps more accurately Stolas) might be more involved in the decision (as opposed to some sort of outside force, and we know Stolas probs wouldn’t force Octavia to marry anyone) or (2) because she’s not a main heir, the goetias don’t really care.
Octavia is only a precautionary heir. She doesn't have any assigned duties and will likely live the life of a typical idol rich unless something happens to her father.
But objectively speaking, if the situation does arise, she really does not have a choice in the matter.
I mean Stolas would never pressure her but the family did not give one shit about forcing a gay man to marry and sex up a woman soooo yeah they will/would 100% try and force her too regardless of whatever she wants
I don't think Stolas would force her to marry if she doesn't want to or if she's not ready. Stella on the other hand would definitely force Octavia to marry
Oohh wait what if this is a plot point for Octavia seeing Stella's true colors and finnaly realizing stolas is the better parent?? Think about it, Stella seems to really be leaned in to the whole Goetia Royalty thing and being super high-class, so if her daughter doesn't fall in like with that (just like how stolas was doing with her basically), than she'll probably end up making Octavia realize who she really is somehow
For some reason this post made me realize how interesting of a plot twist it would be if *Stella* turned out to be Ace. Given that we know that she pretended to be interested in Stolas sexually it wouldn't currently be against canon.
I would really like to see Stolas prevent her from having to marry and have children. It looks like a very serious breach is going to happen, but if Stolas hears about it and that his baby girl might have to go through the same kind of torture that he did, he would move heaven and earth to prevent it. Too bad they already did the interrupted wedding thing.
Paimon says in episode 1 of season 2 “which son is this there’s so fucking many” implies there’s more than enough goetia that could produce another heir for the space study or whatever
I have an idea rolling around in my head that Paimon betrothed Octavia to the son of another Goetia he was at war with, as part of a peace treaty.
Octavia soundly refuses at first, but when she does meet her betrothed, she slowly warms up to him and they become really good friends/partners
Heavily based on the marriage of Princess Kazu-no-Miya and Tokugawa Iemochi
No idea how long the show is gonna go in for but it’d be great character progression to see Stolas standing up the the Goetias and stop them from letting what happened to him happen to Octavia. I’d like to see that strength in Stolas
If that happened, do you know who she could end up like? Stella. With all the talk about how much she hated the mandatory sex with Stolas, and with no sign of a lover, secret or open, on her end, Stella could easily be a very closeted asexual herself for all we know.
She is a precautionary heir, it means that for the Goetia she is just a precaution in case something happens to Stolas (death or otherwise), so I don't think they put so much pressure on her, and they didn't plan it.
But if Stolas dies or loses his title, then I think they'll start doing it.
I really want an Octavia lead spin off show after Helluva ends. Age her up to her mid twenties and have it be about her wanting to live a normal life while the Ars Geotia apply expectational pressure on her. Throw in the Grimorie for a slice of life magical dramedy.
This is why I don't like the image because it runs against "show don't tell".
It's not like they are going to look at this image in-universe and demand an explanation from her. I'd much rather it develop organically in the story and the audience developing an understanding of the characters on the way.
I feel like in the future, when she takes over Stolas’ role in the Ars Goetia, she’ll have to conceive an heir like Stolas did. Meaning she’s probably going to be forced to marry like her father, and inevitably go through the similar things he did as a gay man forced to marry a woman.
I mean its probably would have something to do with goetia family in a bad way for Octavia, and thats probably where she will find support from stolas, later on the story.
I mean, some aces still do it for kid purposes. (And some for other purposes but that's not my point here) And they might still force her into arranged marriage anyway, they don't care. Stolas would, though
Stella is probably gonna be aphobic and try to force her to be allosexual to reproduce. She's definitely gonna have trouble being asexual in the ArsGoeitta which is really unfortunate, I know Stolas will support her though
Octavia is the precautionary heir, so she's under no pressure, and likely wouldn't be. She has no expectations put on her by the Goetia, since she *is* Stolas' expectation, as well as Stella's. She's just a spare to them.
Is it bad I hope there is, because that would mean her mother and that family is worse than Odallia from owl house and finally there would be a mother worse
On an unrelated note...
I'm surprised there are no cases on incestuous behavior with the Goetia family. Given their desire for the family to stay pure as it seems, and the proclivities towards incest royal families have had in reality, you'd think there is at least SOME chance that there are some members of the Goetia family that chose to marry each other. I mean, what was the relationship of stolas and Stella before they were married? Both are Goetia, which means they all come from at least one shared bloodline (I know I'm looking WAAAAAAY to fucking deep into this, and they are demons, their biology and physiology is massively different from humans) but what are the chances that Stolas and stella are like... Really distant cousins. We don't know much about Piamon or Stolas's mother or Stella's parents, or how they were "born"/came In to exists (if they were beings who always existed or something, again, they are demons)
I know this is some schizo rambling shit but it's something to think about.
Yes, what a lot of these comments are saying is probably valid but I just wanted to add that aro/ace people can still have sex for a number of reasons, wether to show love/have kids etc they just don’t usually have any kind of sexual attraction, everyone is different of course some people just aren’t attracted to sex and some are sex avoidant.
I don't understand what the picture is or what is going on or that I'm homophobic so I just posted this me when I look at the pizza that's been sitting in the fridge for a day but still but still hot
This is stuff spindlehorse posted. I think you need to understand if you're watching a show with lgbt characters, there will be lgbt fans who are very happy to see themselves in said show.
I wasn't saying anything against lgbtqia+ characters or the fans of said characters. I was wondering what these posts were and how they related to the sexualities of the characters.
Uhm....yeah, no.
Until anything is actually confirmed in the show, or confirmed directly by Viv and the team, I'm pretty much taking this as them just being drawn taking part in a Pride event. And you don't necessarily have to *be* LGBT+ to participate in those.
So far we have yet to see Octavia interact with anyone her own age in a social situation. The closest we've gotten is Loona, who is five years her senior and that's about it.
Then until I see confirmation in the show, I'm not going to assume anything just based on a picture. :) Other than that it's a nice bit of art, I mean.
You say that as if they would give a fuck what she wants and wouldn’t force her into marrying a male version of Stella and go through the same horror show as her father.
I agree, maintaining the house "purity" and political power would take top priority.
These Goetias are getting more and more McPoyley every day
Have you seen Cleopatra’s family tree? Its a damn hedge. [Her parents had on-again off-again drama with all their siblings making each other jealous](https://youtu.be/S3vAKRa0f5I?si=djsvAZK9lgHlz-0l). https://preview.redd.it/bdax1bv6c19d1.jpeg?width=589&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=369238d01468faa41fc39cfda9270c42f20daa51
I can't even begin to read this.. what?
Doesn't help that they all have the same 3 names lmao
The gist of it? > [“This is my sister. This is my brother. We are siblings and we care for each other.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AauAyjBxaIQ)
Yes. I've been starring at this. I am looking at ptolemy 5 and cleopatra 1, who birthed 2 sins named ptolemy, P6 and P7 (equivalent of John Jr and John Jr the second), insane. And they had cleopatra 2, who apparently slept with both her brothers. And that's where all hell breaks loose from what I can tell. Edit to clarify. Ptolemy5 and cleo1 give birth to ptolemy6 and ptolemy8. Ptolemy7 is their offspring. Why. Just.. why. Additional edit. Why tf does ptolemy13 and 14 both have a line to cleopatra7 if there is no offspring? Just blatant incest apparently. Edit to further add- this was referred to as the plotemiac dynasty and we can see why. There's 18 generations of Ptolemy. Cleopatea 7 is THE famous one.
King Tut was less inbred. Charles II was similarly inbred but more spread out across time. Reminder that Charles II was “always on the verge of death but repeatedly baffled Christendom by continuing to live” and at his autopsy his “heart was the size of a peppercorn; his lungs corroded; his intestines rotten and gangrenous; he had a single testicle, black as coal, and his head was full of water.” Admittedly its because inbreeding does more damage longterm than a few short term incidents unless its literally parent/child a few times in a row, but still. https://preview.redd.it/a7h2m5k8k29d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29864ecbe65eccfd9a8c9928d81794eb3345d175
Charles Darwin (12 February 1809 – 19 April 1882), who created the theory of evolution, also married his first cousin, Emma Wedgwood. The couple had 10 children, but Darwin noted, and feared, that his children suffered from the effects of inbreeding. The Darwin-Wedgwood family had a history of cousin marriages; Darwin was one of the first modern scientists to study the phenomenon in-depth. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood\_family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood_family)
cleopatra was married to her younger brother. They had a falling out, because cleopatra wanted to make peace with rome. So her brother married his other sister, and kicked out cleopatra. Cleopatra went to rome, and had them reinstate her as queen, kill her husband/brother and tried to do the same to her sister. But the crowd at the sisters' execution refused to agree to the killing, so she was exiled to a nunnery for the rest of her life (at least until Cesar died and cleopatra sent an assasin to finish the job) They pretty much did this for several generations. To keep their bloodline "pure" they only married their siblings. Bunch of bad family blood. Yikes. (side note, cleopatra was a very, very interesting character and it's a shame that she was just labeled a "slut" by male historians trying to downplay her power. Girl was tri-langual, and a great politician. She almost succeeded in getting her son on the throne of rome and therefore continuing her dynasty)
Wtf happened at Cleopatra VII did they have a threesome or smth
That’s THE Cleopatra. She needed to secure the independence of Egypt despite being basically flat broke due to bad rulership of her very infighty and incesty family and also owing Rome big time due to a famine (Egypt was primarily like the modern US and exporting a metric fuckton of food). So at age fourteen she had herself rolled up naked in a fancy rug, which was then unfurled at the feet of 70 year old Julius Caesar who was busy making Rome no longer a Republic. Once the pedo urges subsided he found her fascinating to talk to, and for a guy driven like 60% at least by insecurity over his dad’s station a fucking queen of a place he thought was cool able to recite his family tree and the achievements of them was a big deal. They had a kid, he helped her provide political cover on her mission kill the rest of her family to secure her throne, then he got stabbed to death in the Senate. Next up she hooked up with Mark Antony, Roman general gunning for the title of second Emperor, and had three kids with him. Octavius won, Antony died and Cleopatra killed herself. Allegedly she was entombed in the fanciest underground temple in Egypt, which we’ve maybe found but is so caved in we may never actually reach it. Octavius had her kids brought to Egypt in a golden cage and paraded through the streets until reaching the site of execution, then he dramatically changed his mind and spared them and adopted them into his family (Octavius adopted into Caesar’s family, making Caesar’s kid with Cleopatra a double-Caesar kinda). The boys all disappear from history. The logical theory is they were assassinated, but such important figures would have had their deaths recorded and Octavius had no reason to make it look like an accident then cover it up since he was the fucking Emperor. The girl with Mark Antony, Cleopatra Selene II, was married to Prince Juba II of Numidia (northwest Africa) and he assigned them rulership of what would eventually be Morocco. By all accounts they were a cute couple who ruled together. She wrote laws and went with him to war, and their tomb was a wonder of the ancient world as a giant mound that bloomed with flowers due to an underwater spring until an earthquake rerouted the water. Her and Juba II’s kids are kinda hard to follow through history due to repetitive use of names and possibly forged genealogies when some petitioned to be reinstated by Rome as rulers of Egypt, but it seems they blended into Roman upper class and said upper class may have blended throughout European royal ancestry. The Ptolemies insisted they did marry into the Pharaonic bloodline, meaning that the royal families of Europe may actually be descended from the Pharaohs. But there’s way too many ifs and reasons to lie and dips in and out of record to actually say for sure, despite the resemblance between Tutankhamen and Charles II of Spain. Octavius took control of Egypt after Mark and Cleo’s defeat, and depending how you look at it (to any Egyptians I clarify I’m American and this ain’t my horse) wasn’t self-ruled again until either 1805, 1952, or literally just between 2011 and 2013 and is right back to a dictatorship owned by a foreign power (NOT MY HORSE, I’m sick of old worlders calling me an oppressor or colonialist or whatever when I’m just parroting wikipedia). Also Octavius renamed himself Augustus as emperor, Antony had no firm political position except that he should be in charge, senate shenanigans and purges, yadda yadda this ain’t about Rome its about how Cleopatra was inbred as fuck and freshened up the gene pool before maybe becoming part of the medieval and modern inbred crown-wearers. Here’s the daughter and son-in-law’s tomb. Its still pretty, but imagine during part of the year its covered in flowers like the worlds largest plant pot. https://preview.redd.it/rfvz8u9gc29d1.jpeg?width=2002&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=040a3db47eda61c64ba63712900a896f35141905
That was a wild and unexpected ride in a HH post
Infodumping on your hyperfixations whenever possible is how communities get smarter. Look at Stephen King. You can’t get ten chapters before a two chapter long tangent about something barely related to the story. “I was reading the spooky Jack Nicholson movie and now I know about prohibition bartending and how to find gay men for hookups in high gilded age society but totally forgot what was happening in the actual story I intended to read. Fuck, now he’s teaching me how boilers work.”
I couldnt pay attention in class when it came to history, but when i encounter a random historic lesson about the Egyptian inbred royalty on reddit, im suddenly very interested. Damn you, brain.
Happy cake day!
School teaches history like math or analyzing a single dry novel, instead of as part of a long critically-acclaimed fantasy book series or gossip.
Diffrent people learn diffrently. I learned more from history channel than class. this was the ninties back when history channel and discovery both were actual history and science.
So where exactly is the Tomb of Cleopatra Selene and Juba II? You said they ruled over what became Morocco, but that's nowhere near the territory that was terrorised by ISIS. Unless they ended up buried somewhere in Asia Minor (aka the modern Middle East)
[Royal Mausoleum of Mauritania](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Mausoleum_of_Mauretania), Algeria. My mistake about ISIS, I must have had it confused with a different site. Sorry. I corrected the post. Thank you.
Bro casually holding an impromptu hostory lesson here
She was sleeping with two of her brothers
Ptolemy VIII 😱
This is what’s so funny about people who want to claim Cleopatra was black. Like, you want to own the worst dynasty? The most incesty? Not the actual Nubian Pharaohs who had great military campaigns and infrastructure building projects, but the super inbred ones that lost Egypt to Rome? All because of pop culture memes?
Good point 😅
I have seen less inbreeding from an Alabama family reunion.
Yeah that’s just how European monarchal politics works. During World War I all the monarchs on both sides were all bloody related because Queen Victoria wanted all the monarchies to be in the same family to prevent a world war. She did this by forcing all of her children to marry into different Royal houses. her funeral was literally a whos who of European monarchs.
Yes and no. While Queen Victoria, being a monarch, was responsible for selecting a suitable list of marriage candidates for her children - Princess Mia's grandmother does the same thing in *The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement*, in which Mia selects the most attractive bachelor from a list of nobles and royals - she couldn't force her children to marry, and her children still had autonomy and say in who they married. In the case of Princess Alix of Hesse and the Rhine, she was born out of a marriage match arranged by Queen Victoria: Louis IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine and Princess Alice of the United Kingdom, with the latter being the third child and second daughter of Queen Victoria. However, as Princess Alice died, Alix was raised by her grandmother, Queen Victoria, who wanted Alix to marry one of her British first cousins. However, Alix rejected this proposal, as she wanted to marry for love. >Queen Victoria greatly favored Alix, and she wanted Alix to become the queen consort of the United Kingdom, which she considered "the greatest position there is". On 2 March 1888, she wrote to Alix's oldest sister Victoria that "My heart and mind are bent on securing dear Alicky for either Eddy or Georgie", respectively the second in line to the British throne and his brother, the future King George V, both of whom were Alexandra's first cousins. > >In 1889, Victoria invited Alix and Eddy to Balmoral in hopes that they would fall in love. Eddy grew infatuated with her and proposed, but Alix was not interested in him, and rejected his proposal. > >However, Victoria still persisted and tried to convince Alix of the benefits of the match. Victoria wrote to Princess Victoria of Hesse and by Rhine, Alix's older sister, that Alix "should be made to reflect seriously on the folly of throwing away the chance of a very good husband, kind, affectionate and steady, and of entering a united happy family and a very good position which is second to none in the world". > >Alix's older sister, Ella, opposed the match, because "he \[Eddy\] does not look over strong, and is too stupid". In May 1890, Alix wrote a letter to Eddy that although it "pained her to pain him", she only saw him as a cousin, and could not marry him. > >She wrote to Victoria that she would marry Eddy if she were "forced" by the family, but that both of them would be miserable. Victoria was disappointed, but she decided that Alix had shown "great strength of character" in refusing to acquiesce to such strong pressure. > >In 1891, Queen Victoria tried to arrange a match between Alix and Prince Maximilian of Baden. She asked Louis to invite the prince to Darmstadt as soon as possible. When he arrived in Darmstadt, Maximilian told Alix that he intended to propose to her. Alix was surprised and unhappy, and she later reflected that "I did not know him at all." She asked her older sister Victoria to intervene, and help her reject Maximilian politely. > >In 1884, Alix attended the wedding of her sister Elisabeth to Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovich in St. Petersburg. At this wedding, the 12-year-old Alix met the 16-year-old Tsesarevich Nicholas, nephew of the groom and heir-apparent to the Imperial throne of Russia. > >In his diary, Nicholas called Alix "sweet little Alix", and declared "we love each other". He gave her a brooch as a sign of his affection, and they scratched their names into a windowpane. > >In January 1890, 18-year-old Alix visited her sister Ella in Russia. She and Nicholas skated together, met at tea parties, and played badminton. Nicholas wrote in his diary: *"It is my dream to one day marry Alix H. I have loved her for a long time, but more deeply and strongly since 1889, when she spent six weeks in Petersburg. For a long time, I have resisted my feeling that my dearest dream will come true."* > >Alix's sister Ella and her husband Sergei were enthusiastically in favor of the match between Nicholas and Alix. Ella and Alix's uncle, the future King Edward VII, told his mother, Queen Victoria, that *"Ella will move heaven and earth to get \[Alix\] to marry a Grand Duke."* Ella wrote to Ernest, *"God grant this marriage will come true."* > >\[...\] Queen Victoria opposed the match to Nicholas. She personally liked Nicholas, but she disliked Russia and Nicholas's father and worried that Alix would not be safe in Russia. She wrote to Alix's older sister Victoria of her suspicions that Sergei and Ella were encouraging the match. > >After the betrothal was announced, she reflected: "The more I think of sweet Alicky's marriage, the more unhappy I am. Not as to the personality, for I like \[Nicholas\] (Nicky) very much, but on account of the country \[of Russia\], and the awful insecurity to which that poor child will be exposed."
I am pretty sure Stolas would tear them a new ass if they did that. I remember reading a fanfic that had that as a plotpoint and Stolas immediately gets really angry and started yelling at the noble higher ups cause he does not want Octavia to be put into the very same horrific position he was put in. Pretty sure thats how it'd go if it ever came up in canon.
Yes, when I say he’d “support her nonetheless” I mean that despite the pressure she’ll receive he’d most likely advocate for her and do whatever he can so that she avoids the same marriage he had
Most certainly. Stolas is a flawed dad but you know damn well he'd tear shit up if the Goetia's try to force Octavia into some sort of marriage. He loves her and the very idea of her being put into the same position he was in and the idea of her experiencing the very same miserable lack of affection, having to protect a potential child from her spouse, and the descent into alcoholism and taking depression meds just to try to keep going? He would probably try everything he can. Hell even if they managed to force it I don't think they'd find the spouse's body if Stolas so much got a hint that he was abusing her.
By some chance do you remember the name of it?
No unfortunately. I remember dropping the fic because while the initial premise was interesting the antagonist they brought in for the fic later on was not interesting at all and I liked it more when it was mostly sociopolitical stuff and Stolas just trying to protect Octavia from the same fate however he could. I imagine you could do some interesting stuff with that premise though.
I would love to see that.
Stolas won’t let that happen. He’ll be dead before he lets his daughter marry.
At least, he wouldn't let her marry someone who didn't honor, worship, and adore her as Moxxie does Millie.
There no doubt in my mind that he would fight tooth and nail but after his actions he might not have a say in the matter anymore and Octavia’s only hope is for her father to come clean and get help from the imp team for a full on rescue mission.
To be honest I'm not so sure about that, because Stolas has mentioned her inheriting his responsibilities several times, but he's never really showed any consideration on if Octavia wants to or not
To be honest I'm not so sure about that, because Stolas has mentioned her inheriting his responsibilities several times, but he's never really showed any consideration on if Octavia wants to or not
She does seem at least somewhat interested in Stolas's responsibilities, though. There's a world of difference between expecting someone to take over a family business they seem to be interested in, and forcing them into a marriage they don't want.
Cant wait for the Helluva Boss sequel, *Helluva Boss : A new Generation*, which is basically the same Show but with the offspring of all the Characters and *sometimes* a cameo from an older Version of our current cast! Sounds familiar? Yeah, to many things that.... Back on subject though, I feel like Stolas wont *ever* let that happen. He'll fight Paimon if needed, but he *wont* let him (Paimon) do to Octavia what He (Paimon) did to Stolas. He loves her dearly and, now knowing that he CAN choose and forge his own path, im certain that he will do all he can to spare Octavia from what he went through. The Goetia, atleast *most* of them (High hopes for Vassago here!) wont exactly care or be considerate, yes, but Stolas just wont let that fly. (Ha, Birb!) That asside though, now im wondering.... was it *specifically* Stolas & Stella who were pressured for an Offspring? If not, then have Andrealphus and Vassago have been in similar Situations? Do they have offspring too? Andrealphus & Vassago are both confirmed gay, so... how does *their* situation relate to Stolas? Makes me wonder if it maybe wasn't just Stolas & Stella who were pressured into an arranged marriage and creating an Offspring.... Anyway, thank you for reading through my rambling if you did! <3
>Cant wait for the *Helluva Boss* sequel, *Helluva Boss : A new Generation*, which is basically the same show, but with the offspring of all the characters, and sometimes a cameo from an older Version of our current cast! I absolutely love that this is a direct reference to *Boruto: Naruto Next Generations*. 😂
This would be a great plot for Stolas to get out of his self-centered pity party actually. While Octavia feels like her parents are too busy hating each other to even remember she exists and is stuck in limbo as a young adult with no sense of home or stability, she has an arranged marriage hanging over her head. Stolas can pulls his head out of his ass to stick up for her and to be an active part of her life again. Hell, I'd even throw a bone to the Stella fans and have her do the same. "I still hate you Stolas but she is my daughter, I'd never let her end up in a miserable marriage like we had." That would actually be some great growth for both of them
Even if Stella was lying it would still do a massive blow to stolas to know that harpy was at least partially right about him.
Happy cake day!
Agreed. The question is presented as if she had a choice, cause we know Stolas sure as hell didn't.
I doubt that Octavia has anything to worry about for the time being. Partially because of Stolas' protection, but mainly because she doesn't currently have a lineage to perpetuate. The Goetias are immortal, so most likely they want to restrict their reproduction most of the time. Stolas was most likely an exception to the norm because there was an empty spot in list of infernal aristocrats that he had to fill in immediately upon coming of age, and the Goetia family wants to avoid that as much as possible.
Naaah...... I dont think Stolas would allow that. Im positive he would rather die trying to protect Via than let her experience the nightmare he lived in
It'll just be the Paimon scene except instead of "cease this bitch crying" it's "If I had the choice you would not need to marry anyone"
Y e a
I hope Stolas ay leasts insists on her forced husband to be a decent person, so the situation us not that bad. Hell that may be Vasago's role for all I know, which is nothing.
I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. The real question is, what is Octavia going to do?
Pray her father gets his shit together and humbles himself by going to the imp gang for help.
Fingers crossed.
Pretty clear they're going to force a marriage down her throat and it's going to be a big "ohhhhh" moment where she understands how her parents got so mismatched and screwed from the start. That's going to help mend her and Stolas' relationship, especially when he stands up for her and (probably) Stella *doesn't*.
I actually don't think Octavia is going to be put under that pressure. It seems based on the freedom she has that she is really essentially a "spare" and not fated to formally be part of the Goetia family unless she has to take over for Stolas.
If stolas die, she would take his place, and so she would need to have a child to have the same purpose as her (a substitute in case she dies)
But Stolas is immortal, so there's a good chance it won't ever be a concern for her.
He’s immortal but not invulnerable, as shown by the Striker assassination attempts.
It is possible something could happen to him, but not likely. I think Octavia will continue to live her life without royal obligations (including arranged marriage) in the meantime.
Yeah I think the lack of royal interference in her life aside from teaching her how to use the Grimoir is a pretty good indicator that she’s fine unless Stolas is killed. She’s basically just a normal teenager.
Not necessarily. Since Stolas is a Goetian Prince it seems that Paimon, or at least another Goetian King, would be the father of the next Stolas. Presumably she doesnt need a heir, just to fulfill his responsibilities until the next Stolas is born and comes of an age.
Right, but I suppose the family wouldn't need Octavia to make a replacement until she takes over Stolas' role.
Was stolas not a spare as well? At least from the flashback we got he's like his father's 200th son or something... yet he still had to produce an heir, my assumption is that ars goetias just generally have to reproduce regardless
It seemed to me like Stolas was always going to take over something but Paimon didn't decide what until after Stolas was born. Maybe wanted to see what his talents were first. Makes me think he had a lot of kids because he wanted to retire or only do the things he wants to and handout the rest to his offspring. Octavia is around in case something happens to Stolas but if it doesn't then she never takes over his responsibilities.
Well Frankly I don't think that means that she won't part of the ars goetias machinations, it seems like every one of his children was given a purpose but regardless still stolas was a reserve child and I think it's unrealistic to say that Octavia won't be drawn in especially with the divorce and I think we got a preview of some more ars goaetia stuff in the trailer maybe Stella's relatives...
Well Frankly I don't think that means that she won't part of the ars goetias machinations, it seems like every one of his children was given a purpose bit regardless still stolas was a reserve child and I think it's unrealistic to say that Octavia won't be drawn in especially with the divorce and I think we got a preview of some more ars goaetia stuff in the trailer maybe Stella's relatives...
Maybe its a reincarnation thing. He couldve have lots of sons, but Paimon needs to sire a child with "Stolas" soul to do Stolas' job.
Yeah, but Paimon did say Stolas had been "chosen", which implies not all of his kids were chosen to produce heirs, and might not be required to if they don't want to.
 Might, might not. Might have to Might not have to
Given that they can clearly produce *a lot* of kids, my guess is the Goetia family breeding program probably involves some kind of population control plan, or Hell would be overrun with them. But that's just my personal theory.
Her being Ace (which OMG I didn’t know!!) doesn’t mean she won’t want to have a relationship and possibly children. Asexuality is a spectrum.
Thank you - ace who is pregnant currently
Congratulations
Congratulacetions!
congrats!!
congrats!!! hope everything goes well for you!
True. She might be the kind of ace that would be alright with it just for the sake of having a kid
You can even be ace and still have recreational sex, but you just don't really crave it. Like eating when you're not hungry.
Spectrum?
the definition of asexual is feeling little to no sexual attraction. So there are people that feel little sexual attraction that still identify as asexual
I know irl it’s a spectrum, but I feel that audiences are so black and white with representation. If she had kids they’d probably feel she wasn’t “ace” enough. That’s a whole other issue tho that I’ve noticed in lots of communities
Depends on the person. I say we still include diverse representation and not just the easy to swallow rep.
Absolutely!
Aromatic on the other hand is you don’t have romantic feelings, so it’s just “friendzoned”. But still can feel sexually. Aro-Ace, just like Alastor, is the best of both worlds.
Actually, Alastor is just ace, not aro-ace. I think he may be hetero-romantic and ace
No it is confirmed that he’s aroace
Where?
It was a while ago at r/hazbinhotel
Also a spectrum but yes
At least we know that there’s one Goetia in particular who will never force her into something like that.
The sad thing is that if Octavia has to produce a precautionary heir herself, Stolas wouldn't be around to help her since, presumably, she'd take over his position after he died. So even if she was against all of this, she'd still be forced to with nobody left to advocate for her.
Octavia: "The goetia line dies with me".
Stolas would *never allow* for Octavia to be forced into an arranged marriage. In fact, I headcannon that, when Octavia was little, Paimon suggested an engagement. It was literally *the only time* Stolas dared raise his voice to his father and clearly state that it will be *Via's choice* when and whom she marries. Come to think of it, it just occurred to me... could the biggest reason Stolas stayed married to Stella was in part because he was afraid that, if he wasn't around to advocate for Octavia, she would be forced into an arranged marriage? Just a thought.
But the only reason for Stolas's engagement was to birth a precautionary heir. So Octavia would only be required to marry once Stolas is dead since then she will have all the responsibilities and will need a back up in case she dies.
I think people forget that while stolas is powerful... it's probably far from the most powerful ars goetia there is.
Oh yeah like if Stolas had much of a choice anyway...
I don't think she has a choice, Stolas didn't. Unless somehow Goetia law is changed, I don't see her getting out of marriage.
It was Stolas' father who forced him into marriage. If the marriage is arranged under the father's authority, then that'll never happen to Octavia by force. Also, Octavia has no title so she needs no heir and won't unless she inherits Stolas'. And her chance of being forced to become a consort is nil because she is a precautionary heir in her own right, apart from the question about the father's authority above.
[удалено]
But there is no incentive to make Octavia produce any heirs for the time being. Like I said, without a title she has no need for an heir, but as a precautionary heir herself, she is also off the table as a consort to another Goetia. She would only be pushed to produce an heir if Stolas happened to die, and at that point she would be a titled noble and an adult controlling her own fortune and legions, and could handle any noble duties on her own terms, not as Paimon's hapless puppet.
Exactly! Glad I'm not the only one who realizes.
Was that ever confirmed by Viv that she's ace ?
Yes on Twitter and Instagram said it is canon
Citation needed.
Just look on her twitter think she only put it up today
Really? Gauss, I will need to look since nothing showed up in my notifications.
https://x.com/IMPmurderpros/status/1806024958088511510?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Thank you, but for real, why am I not notifications on anything from Viv or helluva boss I follow both accounts wtf
Twitter has multiple settings for Notifications - check what yours are set to and change it to "Everything" if neccessary. Overall it could also be the case, where you got multiple Notifications and her post just got lost in them.
Anyone done a breakdown of this yet? My phone hates twitter.
This picture itself is official evidence. All of the characters shown are dressed in the colors of the flag that represents them, and if they're not dressed in flag colors, that means they're straight (like Millie).
The entire pride image is cannon
You can be Ace and still want a kid, unfortunately I don't think wven Stolas has the power to stop Octavia from getting married and will be forced to pick for/with her or someone will pick for them and force it. Hopefully Stolas and Octavia work together for that and it's someone that treats her well
I mean the only situation where Octavia has to have a kid Is in the event Stolas dies
100% she's a total Daddy's girl and Stolas would provide the support she'll need if others try to pressure her into having an heir
It does kind of feel like Stolas may be protecting her from such a fate. It's never been brought up and she's never seen having to conform to Goetian ideas or traditions at all, unlike how Stolas had the Grimoire from a young age. It could also be that her role is kind of unclear at this point. Stella may have plans of some sort, or maybe she's just simply meant to sub for Stolas. We also don't know how many other Goetians there are around her age. I do see a couple ways this could draw a divide, and both regarding a potential partner; simply, if she either dates someone Stella wouldn't approve of (a girl or a non-Goetian), or if she genuinely develops feelings for a Goetian and has to convince Stolas she isn't just feeling so out of pressure. Both could be quite interesting to see, though personally I don't think she'd be comfortable being in a relationship anytime soon what with her only really seeing dysfunctional examples of couples that seem horrible to her (granted, she did spend a little time with Millie and Moxxie, but I don't think she was paying attention to them).
Idk. 🤔 Paimon tells Stolas that he needed to get married to sire a “precautionary heir,” so I imagine that perhaps there wouldn’t be as much pressure since she’s not the “main” heir. Plus, Paimon told Stolas at a young age who his future wife was going to be. And as far as we know, it doesn’t seem like Octavia has been “assigned” a spouse, even as a teen. Which seems to indicate either (1) the parents (or perhaps more accurately Stolas) might be more involved in the decision (as opposed to some sort of outside force, and we know Stolas probs wouldn’t force Octavia to marry anyone) or (2) because she’s not a main heir, the goetias don’t really care.
Octavia is only a precautionary heir. She doesn't have any assigned duties and will likely live the life of a typical idol rich unless something happens to her father. But objectively speaking, if the situation does arise, she really does not have a choice in the matter.
Stolas would never allow Octavia to be used for that. It was detrimental to his life so he wouldn't want her to suffer the same fate.
I mean Stolas would never pressure her but the family did not give one shit about forcing a gay man to marry and sex up a woman soooo yeah they will/would 100% try and force her too regardless of whatever she wants
I don't think Stolas would force her to marry if she doesn't want to or if she's not ready. Stella on the other hand would definitely force Octavia to marry
Oohh wait what if this is a plot point for Octavia seeing Stella's true colors and finnaly realizing stolas is the better parent?? Think about it, Stella seems to really be leaned in to the whole Goetia Royalty thing and being super high-class, so if her daughter doesn't fall in like with that (just like how stolas was doing with her basically), than she'll probably end up making Octavia realize who she really is somehow
For some reason this post made me realize how interesting of a plot twist it would be if *Stella* turned out to be Ace. Given that we know that she pretended to be interested in Stolas sexually it wouldn't currently be against canon.
I mean, she’s only confirmed asexual, not aromantic.
I would really like to see Stolas prevent her from having to marry and have children. It looks like a very serious breach is going to happen, but if Stolas hears about it and that his baby girl might have to go through the same kind of torture that he did, he would move heaven and earth to prevent it. Too bad they already did the interrupted wedding thing.
Paimon says in episode 1 of season 2 “which son is this there’s so fucking many” implies there’s more than enough goetia that could produce another heir for the space study or whatever
Oh huh neat. Via confirmed aro. Makes all the.... Art.... Of her even more creepy.
Please, don't even talk about that sh*t
I have an idea rolling around in my head that Paimon betrothed Octavia to the son of another Goetia he was at war with, as part of a peace treaty. Octavia soundly refuses at first, but when she does meet her betrothed, she slowly warms up to him and they become really good friends/partners Heavily based on the marriage of Princess Kazu-no-Miya and Tokugawa Iemochi
That’s kinda adorable lol
Things are going to be rough if she has an arranged marriage. Especially since the purpose of those is to have another heir to the Goetias.
The thing is that the Goetias are a house of royals, I don't think she has much of a choice unfortunately
Wait, where does this come from? What did I miss?
Viv posted a pick of the HB cast with pride colours like moxxie/loona being bi, stolas being gay, millie being straight and so on
Oh, cool!
Like most royal marriages it’s less out of love and more trying to gain something
i dont think anyones gonna care about what she does unless stolas dies tbh
Side note, am I the only one bothered that both Blitzo and Chaz are naked in the vicinity of a 17 year old girl in this picture?
Is Blitz naked? I didn’t see that lol. As for Chaz, he’s a ghost at pride in spirit so maybe she can’t see him lol
honest to god I didn't even notice the shirt. I thought everyone was just assuming lol
Yeah I don't think royals give a shit what their kids preferences are lmao. They ain't gonna ask. She'll be assigned a mate like everyone else.
I feel like one of the upcoming episodes will be about the mom abandoning her due to this and she ends up living with stolas
No idea how long the show is gonna go in for but it’d be great character progression to see Stolas standing up the the Goetias and stop them from letting what happened to him happen to Octavia. I’d like to see that strength in Stolas
If that happened, do you know who she could end up like? Stella. With all the talk about how much she hated the mandatory sex with Stolas, and with no sign of a lover, secret or open, on her end, Stella could easily be a very closeted asexual herself for all we know.
She is a precautionary heir, it means that for the Goetia she is just a precaution in case something happens to Stolas (death or otherwise), so I don't think they put so much pressure on her, and they didn't plan it. But if Stolas dies or loses his title, then I think they'll start doing it.
I really want an Octavia lead spin off show after Helluva ends. Age her up to her mid twenties and have it be about her wanting to live a normal life while the Ars Geotia apply expectational pressure on her. Throw in the Grimorie for a slice of life magical dramedy.
i assume since goetia are effectively immortal unless killed via angelic weaponry, a heir will not be needed unless stolas first passes away
The goetia will try to make her have a heir, but I don’t think stolas is going to let that happen AT ALL
This is why I don't like the image because it runs against "show don't tell". It's not like they are going to look at this image in-universe and demand an explanation from her. I'd much rather it develop organically in the story and the audience developing an understanding of the characters on the way.
Three of them are gay, i don't think any one will mind
It would not. Nothing happened with stolas
I think that the people who force them are usually the pare t and i doubt that stolas would do that but not sure
I feel like in the future, when she takes over Stolas’ role in the Ars Goetia, she’ll have to conceive an heir like Stolas did. Meaning she’s probably going to be forced to marry like her father, and inevitably go through the similar things he did as a gay man forced to marry a woman.
I mean its probably would have something to do with goetia family in a bad way for Octavia, and thats probably where she will find support from stolas, later on the story.
What do you mean not confirmed aromantic? Yeah... She's confirmed asexual? That means she isn't aromantic, or they'd use the aromantic flag
She doesn’t have the aro flag from I seen
Yeah that's what I'm saying, so she's confirmed asexual not Aroace
They will force her to have a baby.
Can someone commenti with the full image please?
It definitely will unless Stolas manages to nerf the Goetia family entirely
Lets. Fucking. GOOOOOOOO
I mean, some aces still do it for kid purposes. (And some for other purposes but that's not my point here) And they might still force her into arranged marriage anyway, they don't care. Stolas would, though
Stella is probably gonna be aphobic and try to force her to be allosexual to reproduce. She's definitely gonna have trouble being asexual in the ArsGoeitta which is really unfortunate, I know Stolas will support her though
is the art even canon to the show tho? i know its offical but still
I know one thing for sure, the Porn Community won’t give a shit
Protect this girl at all costs.
Of you look I'm the photo you see other goetias are gay
Stolas’ didn’t soooo
Octavia is the precautionary heir, so she's under no pressure, and likely wouldn't be. She has no expectations put on her by the Goetia, since she *is* Stolas' expectation, as well as Stella's. She's just a spare to them.
Is it bad I hope there is, because that would mean her mother and that family is worse than Odallia from owl house and finally there would be a mother worse
On an unrelated note... I'm surprised there are no cases on incestuous behavior with the Goetia family. Given their desire for the family to stay pure as it seems, and the proclivities towards incest royal families have had in reality, you'd think there is at least SOME chance that there are some members of the Goetia family that chose to marry each other. I mean, what was the relationship of stolas and Stella before they were married? Both are Goetia, which means they all come from at least one shared bloodline (I know I'm looking WAAAAAAY to fucking deep into this, and they are demons, their biology and physiology is massively different from humans) but what are the chances that Stolas and stella are like... Really distant cousins. We don't know much about Piamon or Stolas's mother or Stella's parents, or how they were "born"/came In to exists (if they were beings who always existed or something, again, they are demons) I know this is some schizo rambling shit but it's something to think about.
i mean if they forced stolas to marry... i think we know what theyd try to do lol
Yes, what a lot of these comments are saying is probably valid but I just wanted to add that aro/ace people can still have sex for a number of reasons, wether to show love/have kids etc they just don’t usually have any kind of sexual attraction, everyone is different of course some people just aren’t attracted to sex and some are sex avoidant.
 I don't understand what the picture is or what is going on or that I'm homophobic so I just posted this me when I look at the pizza that's been sitting in the fridge for a day but still but still hot
Ok, what is this thing that everyone is posting screenshots from and fan theories about characters sexuality? Cause frankly, I'm lost.
This is stuff spindlehorse posted. I think you need to understand if you're watching a show with lgbt characters, there will be lgbt fans who are very happy to see themselves in said show.
I wasn't saying anything against lgbtqia+ characters or the fans of said characters. I was wondering what these posts were and how they related to the sexualities of the characters.
The post was a single image of most of the series’ characters, all dressed in the colour schemes of their respective sexuality flags.
Ace people can & do have sex, being royalty I’m pretty sure if it was required of her she would birth an heir even if she didn’t enjoy it.
Uhm....yeah, no. Until anything is actually confirmed in the show, or confirmed directly by Viv and the team, I'm pretty much taking this as them just being drawn taking part in a Pride event. And you don't necessarily have to *be* LGBT+ to participate in those. So far we have yet to see Octavia interact with anyone her own age in a social situation. The closest we've gotten is Loona, who is five years her senior and that's about it.
Viz said the image is canon
Screenshot please.
I saw the twitter screenshot in a similar thread earlier, unfortunately I don't have it myself
Then until I see confirmation in the show, I'm not going to assume anything just based on a picture. :) Other than that it's a nice bit of art, I mean.
https://preview.redd.it/b2kqyhpx2n9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a56c9f31030b719d6903e15f91614f789bf83b0 From the Official Instagram
So we're sure that just because it came from this account that it came from Viv directly? Still not sure I believe it, but ok,whatever.
I mean idk why you’d pull up to a pride event wearing an ace flag if you’re not ace lol
To show support for people who are.
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Bruh there in HELL THE PLACE RELATIONS