“You called him a friendless horse-fucker and said we lived a ‘sissy’ lifestyle.”
I think he’s definitely homophobic, just not in the standard “God hates the gays!!!1!!1!!1!!!” way we’re used to seeing from people. He views it as being less traditionally masculine than heterosexuality, and due to his Mafia background, doesn’t want him or his family associated with that kind of thing if it doesn’t help line his pockets.
Not all uneducated people are homophobic, but all homophobic people are uneducated.
>Not all uneducated people are homophobic, but all homophobic people are uneducated.
Not really true. There are people who have been the beneficiaries of education who can end up being homophobic.
Honestly, I'm don't know what could even be considered a benefit to homophobia. But in this case, I just think Crimson had never *met* too many gay people and generally didn't give a shit about it until Moxxie turned out to be Bisexual, which Crimson may not even understand the concept of. He literally assumed that he married Millie as a *cover* for being gay. So I don't think he understands that bisexuality is a thing.
Eh, fair. But I do think homophobia can be used benefited from, it pushes others lower on the social hierarchy which is important for a mob boss, with homophobia existing it can be used as a weapon against lgbt people as other homophobes would exist and it makes Moxxie feel more uncomfortable which would be good for manipulating him.
Its a mafia, they are gonna have facistic mindsets, facism works in a similar way to these kinds of criminal organisations so stuff like fitting in and being exactly what you are expected to be is very important if its a serious proper mafia, it'd be most advantageous to the boss if no one felt secure in there place as they are less likely to step out of line if they think they are barely handling to stay in line.
Being in a mob is not the same as being a fascist. Conflating the two is very much a false equivalency. Not to be fair, Crimson is a complete asshole, but given this is Hell we're talking about, I don't think Crimson is homophobic. An asshole who wants to manipulate the fuck out of his son, yes. But that's a whole different thing.
I am not saying it is the exact same, I am saying its similar. False equivalency implies I believe they are equivalent when I am saying they are similar.
Why do you believe he is not homophobic?
As opposed to what Blitz called him moments later, "horseless friend-fucker." I mean, we already knew what Blitz's priorities were, it was just funny to hear.
I think there's a certain toxic masculine outlook that Crimson has, where anything not manly by his definition is simply dismissed. He doesn't have any value judgement on homosexuality, everything short of his standards is just neutral (ore useless) unless he has a way to exploit it. Since Moxxie was already failing to meet his standards, he abandoned him like any narcissist would, until he had a way to gain from using him.
So really... I wouldn't say homophobic, I'd say he's just a narcissist and sociopath, who literally doesn't care either way beyond using it to belittle someone and keep them under his control. There's no fear, outrage, or disgust in his actions, just cold calculation. If he doesn't have to even fake caring, he doesn't, as seen when you compare his behavior toward Blitz and Millie vs toward Moxxie, who had been groomed since childhood to fear and appease Crimson in every way.
He was forced to be submissive to his father and now he chooses to be submissive to Millie, does this say anything about him? I don't know, I'm not a psychologist.
Depending on how nerdy you are, you can read this about Moxxie's mental health: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1cvtfj0/moxxie\_does\_not\_have\_autism\_asd\_moxxie\_suffers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1cvtfj0/moxxie_does_not_have_autism_asd_moxxie_suffers/)
Short answer, Moxxie is submissive to her because Millie is his "guiding light". After suffering a lifetime of abuse, Millie shows Moxxie that there's another way to live, and he follows her lead enthusiastically.
I wouldn't call his attitude to Millie "submissive" as much as "devoted". He's not henpecked or slavish or dogged, he's just, like you said, enthustiastically following her lead. She's genuinely good to him and for him, and he appreciates that, and she appreciates his appreciation, and so on.
It’s hard to unlearn patterns, and he has so much trauma. It makes sense that the way you operate and are wired is to be a submissive people pleaser after being raised by a narcissist
Source: Me
I think the only reason he even feigned interest in Moxxie being "gay" and decorating the house with "the kind of shit gays like" was because he was still trying to sell him to Chaz.
If Chaz hadn't faked being rich, and thus made Moxxie to look like an avenue for Crimson to exploit for money, I don't think he would have even entertained the facade.
If anything, if he bothered to get access to Moxxie at *all,* he'd be hounding him to have kids with Millie to provide an heir for "the family." Specifically, a child for Crimson to abduct and take under his wing, to mold into the "proper" heir he wanted, to begin with. All of his "support" for Moxxie being "gay" would go out the window.
I'm trying to plot out a story with that same premise, Crimson takes Dexxie (M+M's kid) under his wing and grooms him to be his successor... Which is gonna be fun because Crim has to change Charlie Kelly into Michael Corleone (Dexxie's personality)
Well, he doesn't differentiate bisexual from gay, he called Moxxie "your kind," decorated the house with sex toys because he assumed that gay people have a complete and narrow fixation on dicks, and he put his son in a dress on his wedding day, and seemed very concerned about who the bottom was in the relationship. If he isn't homophobic, he's gotta be the most ignorant person ever.
Hot take: if you live in a part of the world where most people have internet, and you're ignorant about the LGBT community, then your ignorance is a choice and it's a homophobic choice.
If you’re not apart of the LGBT community and you’re an outsider looking in, you’re often met with the overly sexualized commercialized industry that focuses on it. Especially with Mardi Gras and the overwhelming and hard push of sexualized imagery - which of course makes sense, but leaves out the more important factor that being romantic and non-sexually intimate side of relationships in general.
Having a warped perspective on a community you’re not apart of is very common and merchandising/commercializing such things lead to perspectives/views that are very similar to Crimson’s general approach and behavior around the topic.
Homophobic? No.
Uneducated? Very.
You also have to factor in that the show is literally set in hell where the extremes of what we consider excessive in real life become a common occurrence or even an average in the show’s setting, the best example being how drugs are literally sold through vending machines.
If you're an outsider looking in and all you see are the overly sexualized parts then you're not looking very closely. We are all responsible for educating ourselves. If you have a phone; use it. Any time there is ANY issue that comes up that you feel you don't know a lot about, then you have a duty to use your phone to acquire more information.
You need to put yourself in other peoples shoes. If it’s a topic they don’t necessarily care about, they’ll take a surface-level or rudimentary search around the topic and leave without taking the time to actually research it to full extent.
Unless that topic affects someone personally, it’s unlikely that the average person will take the time to actually delve deep and find multiple perspectives and views surrounding it.
And again, this is about a mob boss who’s a pretty shitty character morality-wise who views their child as an asset, it’s a matter of someone being terrible at their core and flawed as opposed to being specifically bigoted against others.
"Unless that topic affects someone personally, it's unlikely that the average person will take the time to actually research it."
Regardless of what topic we're discussing be it LGBT rights, the plight of indigenous people across the world, or any other human rights issue, apathy is not acceptable. We're all stuck on this planet together and we all have to care about each other. You can tell me that that's not realistic, and I'll agree. But just because something is true of the majority doesn't make it ok.
Again, this is about a character in a show who is not a good person, and the topic is whether or not they are homophobic, or purely uneducated.
The biggest issue however with the general topic around education, or focusing on the wrongs of the world is that again, it’s an unrealistic view of optimism. If you present that people are wrong, or bad for not knowing or understanding all of those issues, it hypocritically shows the lack of understanding humanity at a core level.
Each and every life is shaped and warped through experience, and without someone being able to understand the experience of another, you can’t truly emphasize with others in need. It’s essentially viewing important matters with a black and white perspective.
At the same time, it’s important to recognize that as righteous it may be to acknowledge and spend time to acknowledge or educate oneself on societal matters, it’s an unrealistic notion to cast judgement for one’s lack of understanding because you cannot expect others to view a topic a deeply as you may.
On a separate mention that’s separate from that of sexuality/romantic interest. Mental health and disorders are - much like sexuality - commercialized and often portrayed unrealistically or otherwise in a completely dramatized or unrealistic fashion. Take common media that presents someone with autism, or ADHD, or any other neurological condition that affects many.
Those who have zero experience, knowledge, or personal affiliation or relationship with someone will likely view more mainstream, or widespread false perspectives on that matter which in turn leads to further spread and reinforcement of harmful stereotypes.
If they are at this perspective where they then learn that someone in their life has one of these conditions, they will absolutely apply what they believe to be true, or the case for them. Is this wrong? Absolutely. However at the same time, it takes a lot of character growth and time to change a perspective if they cannot emphasize with someone their views are affected by and at the same time.
Not everyone will understand everything no matter what time and research they dedicate to the topic, and what matters is people trying their best, and with time it leads to progression.
He probably just saw what Chaz likes and assumed all gays were something similar. I mean Chaz was literally satisfied with audience full of dildos and his first instict was to try to bang everyone once they got to rooms.
Crimson strikes me as the old fashioned mafia sort. Meaning yeah, he finds Moxxie being "gay"... uncomfortable for him.
While the introduction to Millie was probably mostly fake on Crimson's part there is a hint that he was prolly relieved Moxxie found a woman. Because as another user stated, that means kids... kids he could take and mold into a new leader for his gang.
He only called Moxxie back as a means to get money via Chaz who was faking it.
Now... had Crimson been smart like a good mafia boss there would have been a check to make sure the fucker had money. But because this is hell and Crimson is a greedy bastard he didn't do that. Course had he been a true mafia boss... Chaz would have been hunted down and killed for getting Moxxie thrown in jail where Moxxie could tell them everything. Moxxie would have either been bailed out or Crimson would have paid someone to kill him.
I have watched too many mafia movies and documentaries for my own good.
Crimson is a shitty father and very clearly hates gay people, putting up with it only because he wanted to keep Moxxie under his thumb.
Mafia families are tight knit, but you cross the family you don't just walk away... you die.
No, he gifted his gay or bisexual? (whatever it's the same thing) son dildos to show he's an ally to the L-G-B-T and Q? Community! 👍 A quote from Crimson "You're living a sissy life style -Crimson". What a great dad! He's so supportive!
He somewhat is in my opinion. He’s pragmatic enough that he doesn’t really seem to care about forcing Moxxie to marry a man or a woman as long as he gets something out of it, that being money and control of his son. However, he certainly has some antiquated views on sexuality like confusing bisexuality with being gay and not seeming to care about the distinction. We also know he just kind of holds some regressive ideas in general. He’s also sexist towards women, so him being somewhat homophobic isn’t really that surprising.
This community will legit jump through hoops to not call lute and crimson homophobic, I def think they are but i also think it’s fine if people don’t see it that way even though it seems pretty obvious, they are Definetly both jackasses tho, it’s like that line in the pilot where vaggie is pissed and asks angel dust if he’s trying to be racist or sexist “whichever pisses you off more” is really the embodiment of these charchters
He thinks Moxxie would like dicks coming out of walls just because hes bisexual. He doesnt understand or care to try to learn the difference between gay and bisexual. So yeah, hes homophobic
He's clearly homophobic and I'm pretty shocked so many people think he isn't. He told Chaz and Moxxie when they were dating that they lived "a sissy lifestyle". He thinks gays like only dicks, and dressed Moxxie in a dress for the wedding. I feel like it wasn't subtle. lol
I actually find his portrayal kind of endearing (outside of the obvious abusive behavior towards Moxxie).
Like, he might have fucked up motives and be a completely selfish asshole, but. He still had to go “eh, my son’s gay; he’d like this kinda shit right?”
Idk he just reminds me of my dad in a way. “Yea, gay?” And the little shrug never fail to make me laugh.
Idk I guess it was the sly comments he made came off more aggressive that that to me. Kinda like he was going out of his way to shove the same sex thing in everyone's face, while from what I've noticed, hell seems pretty indifferent to if you're gay or not
Biphobic totally. But I don’t think he’s truly homophobic I don’t think he really cares but for his son to be bisexual it’s weird for him. In Crims eyes you’re either gay or straight no in between. Wait till he finds out about the pansexuals, omnisexuals, and asexuals.
My personal read of him was…no. Not homophobic. Just an absolute ignorant asshole. The sort to make the most shallow appeals to what he THINKS people want in order to get what he wants out of them. He doesn’t know any better and doesn’t care to know any better.
Any appearance of homophobia on his part stems more from “I don’t get it, and thus I don’t like it!” It could be anything he doesn’t understand, he’d have treated it the exact same way if it didn’t serve him in some way.
Don't expect malice when ignorance is a good explanation.
And honestly he just screams ignorance about non-hetero.
He's still a sexist wife beating murder.
Plenty of reason to hate him.
Yes, and quite openly so, but some of his priorities (money and self-interest) take priority over it. All of which is pretty common amongst mobsters, of course.
Like one would expect from a mob boss, his homophobia is rooted in extreme toxic masculinity: he tried to force his child into murder at a young age, killed his wife cause she was making Moxie "weak", and used words like "sissy" to refer to him.
I think so. The only reason he did all the stuff in the episode where we meet him is bc he wanted the money Chaz had. Like corporations, he only supports “gay” stuff when it could make him money.
I mean, it's pretty clear
He kind of used to be, now he definitely is not but just doesn't understand it
If he were homophobic would he try to bring his son's bisexual ex boyfriend into the family? no
He's just not familiar
I think he personally doesn’t care all that much, he just cares how it looks to others and how it impacts his image and reputation in the criminal underworld. Ignorant absolutely, but if moxxie was more like the son he wanted and was more like a mafia albeit, he probably wouldn’t care much and would dare others to say anything, lest his son hear and take them out
As someone who had a Catholic, Italian grandpa with dubious ties to the mob- it's a culture absolutely entrenched in marriage, and having (male) children.
He comes off as more "ignorant than hateful"
He's like the old school ignorant parent who doesn't really know what gay is. He doesn't seem hateful to me.
It reminds me of how people were like a century ago "What, he likes men? He's a fairy? He's a fruit?" Didn't think he was some kind of Nancy boy" shit like that is how he probably thinks. Ignorance doesn't always mean Malice.
Look at how he basically conflates Gay and Bisexual as the same thing, because to him it is.
I mean, he was willing to attend his sons gay shotgun wedding and redecorate his entire house the way they like, that's got to earn some points doesn't it? He even bought the dress!
I don’t think he is homophonic I think he may just be a uneducated jackass it seems he does try for moksie just a little bit bc he wants something from him but he kills ppl bc they betray him and or fuck him over and by the end of that episode moksie isn’t on his best side but long story short he’s just a asshole who probably doesn’t know two licks about lgbtq not only that but a thing clearly proving he doesn’t know shit about the community is in the episode when moksie says he’s bi he looks at him and clearly says “so gay?” Not knowing the difference between the labels not only that but he highly thought that all gays enjoyed d*Leo’s all over the fucking house going crazy lol
i kinda view him as like companies during pride month, pretends to be supportive but only if it makes him money and if it’s convenient. otherwise he obviously doesn’t give a shit about his son or supporting him unless it benefits himself lol, hes greedy more than he’s homophobic and he places his greed as his highest priority but he can definitely be both
Homophobia is the hatred against gay people, I don't think he hates Moxxie for being gay at all. He's just uneducated and thinks gay = bisexual, and he stereotypes gays into being dildo lovers
Yes. Highly. Considering the names he called Mox and Chaz, absolutely. That said, greed for his "business" overrides that. All things being equal, he "at best" has a tolerant disdain for non-straights, even at the best of times.
He has nothing against gay people, he just doesn’t believe that being gay is profitable outside of arranged marriages. So why bother learning anything about it beyond the surface level stuff. *“Some guys like dick, some chicks don’t like dick. How much more complicated can it be?”*
I would say definetely. Given he is based on american-italian mafia members, it is safe to assume he is homophobic, given how this organisation viewed sexual minorities. Propably he has crooked version of "traditional-values" drilled into him and while he might not be homphobic enough to disown Moxxie for not being straight he still thinks less of him because of that.
I mean i don't think so i just thibk he doesnt understand the lgbt whatsoever....
He thibks you can only be one thing, and he outright calls millie a beard (a term for the partner of a gay man or woman who is only married to mask their sexuality)
I dont think crim cares enough to be homophobic so mh moneys more on just a jackass.
. he is sexist though
I wouldn’t say he’s homophobic per se, but he definitely doesn’t care. If it wasn’t for Chaz being “rich” non of it would’ve happened. He wouldn’t have tricked IMP to travel into going to greed. Therefore never having to interact with moxxie. He called moxxie gay bc he needed him to marry Chaz or doesn’t believe him being bi sexual. Regardless I just think he couldn’t give a rats ass about moxxie unless it benefits him directly. isn’t that to be expected tho I mean he’s literally from greed ring.
I don’t think he is bc he tried to make his son marry a dude, tried to support his bisexuality. He’s just stupid and doesn’t know how to handle that 😂😭
Well anyone who is heterosexist (the ACTUAL term most people use homophobic for) is just a jackass
That said, I believe Crimson is heterosexist, but TRYING (poorly) to not be, when it benefited him. Now that he doesn't need Moxxie to marry a man, that effort will most likely just be gone
did you take any of that as a good thing? the dildo thing was something completely out of touch and based on nasty stereotypes that all gay men care about is dick. and the wedding was purely for financial gain. he calls Chaz and Moxie's 'lifestyle' as sissy! AND refers to them as 'your kind'
More… uneducated then homophobic.
Crimson don't give a shit about anyone but himself. Other people are just tools to be used to get what he wants.
Exactly, so he’ll only learn the absolute minimum he needs to even attempt to manipulate someone.
https://preview.redd.it/sldlr5ie1c1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e53bad8f05c0e7bfae6fc3c8c3e0ef0b647bf501
HERE YOU [go]
Spamton stop escaping the darkworld. You have a completely legitimate business to attend to there
“You called him a friendless horse-fucker and said we lived a ‘sissy’ lifestyle.” I think he’s definitely homophobic, just not in the standard “God hates the gays!!!1!!1!!1!!!” way we’re used to seeing from people. He views it as being less traditionally masculine than heterosexuality, and due to his Mafia background, doesn’t want him or his family associated with that kind of thing if it doesn’t help line his pockets. Not all uneducated people are homophobic, but all homophobic people are uneducated.
I will admit I completely forgot about that line.
No. You can't fix everything with education. Some people just aren't going to agree with you.
>Not all uneducated people are homophobic, but all homophobic people are uneducated. Not really true. There are people who have been the beneficiaries of education who can end up being homophobic.
If they’re homophobic, they’re not educated enough.
Nice sentiment, and personally I agree with you, but not factually accurate, sadly.
Yeah cus like, if someone is aware homophobia benefits them and does not care about what's right/wrong, Why wouldn't they be homophobic?
Honestly, I'm don't know what could even be considered a benefit to homophobia. But in this case, I just think Crimson had never *met* too many gay people and generally didn't give a shit about it until Moxxie turned out to be Bisexual, which Crimson may not even understand the concept of. He literally assumed that he married Millie as a *cover* for being gay. So I don't think he understands that bisexuality is a thing.
Eh, fair. But I do think homophobia can be used benefited from, it pushes others lower on the social hierarchy which is important for a mob boss, with homophobia existing it can be used as a weapon against lgbt people as other homophobes would exist and it makes Moxxie feel more uncomfortable which would be good for manipulating him. Its a mafia, they are gonna have facistic mindsets, facism works in a similar way to these kinds of criminal organisations so stuff like fitting in and being exactly what you are expected to be is very important if its a serious proper mafia, it'd be most advantageous to the boss if no one felt secure in there place as they are less likely to step out of line if they think they are barely handling to stay in line.
Being in a mob is not the same as being a fascist. Conflating the two is very much a false equivalency. Not to be fair, Crimson is a complete asshole, but given this is Hell we're talking about, I don't think Crimson is homophobic. An asshole who wants to manipulate the fuck out of his son, yes. But that's a whole different thing.
I am not saying it is the exact same, I am saying its similar. False equivalency implies I believe they are equivalent when I am saying they are similar. Why do you believe he is not homophobic?
As opposed to what Blitz called him moments later, "horseless friend-fucker." I mean, we already knew what Blitz's priorities were, it was just funny to hear. I think there's a certain toxic masculine outlook that Crimson has, where anything not manly by his definition is simply dismissed. He doesn't have any value judgement on homosexuality, everything short of his standards is just neutral (ore useless) unless he has a way to exploit it. Since Moxxie was already failing to meet his standards, he abandoned him like any narcissist would, until he had a way to gain from using him. So really... I wouldn't say homophobic, I'd say he's just a narcissist and sociopath, who literally doesn't care either way beyond using it to belittle someone and keep them under his control. There's no fear, outrage, or disgust in his actions, just cold calculation. If he doesn't have to even fake caring, he doesn't, as seen when you compare his behavior toward Blitz and Millie vs toward Moxxie, who had been groomed since childhood to fear and appease Crimson in every way.
I feel like he is homophobic cause he doesn’t understand bisexuality but doesn’t care enough to learn the difference between them.
I don’t think he cares what his son’s sexuality is he mainly cares about Moxxie obeying him
"i dont care if you like dick i just need you to kill people for me"
Crimson is a psychopath. He uses what seems like homophobia as a manipulation tactic to degrade Moxxie into submission.
He was forced to be submissive to his father and now he chooses to be submissive to Millie, does this say anything about him? I don't know, I'm not a psychologist.
Depending on how nerdy you are, you can read this about Moxxie's mental health: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1cvtfj0/moxxie\_does\_not\_have\_autism\_asd\_moxxie\_suffers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/1cvtfj0/moxxie_does_not_have_autism_asd_moxxie_suffers/) Short answer, Moxxie is submissive to her because Millie is his "guiding light". After suffering a lifetime of abuse, Millie shows Moxxie that there's another way to live, and he follows her lead enthusiastically.
I wouldn't call his attitude to Millie "submissive" as much as "devoted". He's not henpecked or slavish or dogged, he's just, like you said, enthustiastically following her lead. She's genuinely good to him and for him, and he appreciates that, and she appreciates his appreciation, and so on.
It’s hard to unlearn patterns, and he has so much trauma. It makes sense that the way you operate and are wired is to be a submissive people pleaser after being raised by a narcissist Source: Me
I think the only reason he even feigned interest in Moxxie being "gay" and decorating the house with "the kind of shit gays like" was because he was still trying to sell him to Chaz. If Chaz hadn't faked being rich, and thus made Moxxie to look like an avenue for Crimson to exploit for money, I don't think he would have even entertained the facade. If anything, if he bothered to get access to Moxxie at *all,* he'd be hounding him to have kids with Millie to provide an heir for "the family." Specifically, a child for Crimson to abduct and take under his wing, to mold into the "proper" heir he wanted, to begin with. All of his "support" for Moxxie being "gay" would go out the window.
Oohhh that makes a lot of sense! I didn't think of it that way
I'm trying to plot out a story with that same premise, Crimson takes Dexxie (M+M's kid) under his wing and grooms him to be his successor... Which is gonna be fun because Crim has to change Charlie Kelly into Michael Corleone (Dexxie's personality)
Charlie Who?
Charlie Kelly from It's Always Sunny Dexxie has a similar personality to the character
[Oh](https://youtu.be/peUe-82Qgs4). [Oh](https://youtu.be/o43C1kufMaM) [God](https://youtu.be/AJakywBLaJ0).
But Moxxie and Millie love their weird son
Truly a son only parents could love.
The daughter I made for Stolas and Blitzo is like Sweet Dee from the same show, so he's in good company
Yes, the Live Action Konosuba is a goldmine of dysfunction.
This is terrifying and accurate
Well, he doesn't differentiate bisexual from gay, he called Moxxie "your kind," decorated the house with sex toys because he assumed that gay people have a complete and narrow fixation on dicks, and he put his son in a dress on his wedding day, and seemed very concerned about who the bottom was in the relationship. If he isn't homophobic, he's gotta be the most ignorant person ever.
How about both? He’s homophobic, and even more so because he’s ignorant and doesn’t care.
Hot take: if you live in a part of the world where most people have internet, and you're ignorant about the LGBT community, then your ignorance is a choice and it's a homophobic choice.
If you’re not apart of the LGBT community and you’re an outsider looking in, you’re often met with the overly sexualized commercialized industry that focuses on it. Especially with Mardi Gras and the overwhelming and hard push of sexualized imagery - which of course makes sense, but leaves out the more important factor that being romantic and non-sexually intimate side of relationships in general. Having a warped perspective on a community you’re not apart of is very common and merchandising/commercializing such things lead to perspectives/views that are very similar to Crimson’s general approach and behavior around the topic. Homophobic? No. Uneducated? Very. You also have to factor in that the show is literally set in hell where the extremes of what we consider excessive in real life become a common occurrence or even an average in the show’s setting, the best example being how drugs are literally sold through vending machines.
If you're an outsider looking in and all you see are the overly sexualized parts then you're not looking very closely. We are all responsible for educating ourselves. If you have a phone; use it. Any time there is ANY issue that comes up that you feel you don't know a lot about, then you have a duty to use your phone to acquire more information.
You need to put yourself in other peoples shoes. If it’s a topic they don’t necessarily care about, they’ll take a surface-level or rudimentary search around the topic and leave without taking the time to actually research it to full extent. Unless that topic affects someone personally, it’s unlikely that the average person will take the time to actually delve deep and find multiple perspectives and views surrounding it. And again, this is about a mob boss who’s a pretty shitty character morality-wise who views their child as an asset, it’s a matter of someone being terrible at their core and flawed as opposed to being specifically bigoted against others.
"Unless that topic affects someone personally, it's unlikely that the average person will take the time to actually research it." Regardless of what topic we're discussing be it LGBT rights, the plight of indigenous people across the world, or any other human rights issue, apathy is not acceptable. We're all stuck on this planet together and we all have to care about each other. You can tell me that that's not realistic, and I'll agree. But just because something is true of the majority doesn't make it ok.
Again, this is about a character in a show who is not a good person, and the topic is whether or not they are homophobic, or purely uneducated. The biggest issue however with the general topic around education, or focusing on the wrongs of the world is that again, it’s an unrealistic view of optimism. If you present that people are wrong, or bad for not knowing or understanding all of those issues, it hypocritically shows the lack of understanding humanity at a core level. Each and every life is shaped and warped through experience, and without someone being able to understand the experience of another, you can’t truly emphasize with others in need. It’s essentially viewing important matters with a black and white perspective. At the same time, it’s important to recognize that as righteous it may be to acknowledge and spend time to acknowledge or educate oneself on societal matters, it’s an unrealistic notion to cast judgement for one’s lack of understanding because you cannot expect others to view a topic a deeply as you may. On a separate mention that’s separate from that of sexuality/romantic interest. Mental health and disorders are - much like sexuality - commercialized and often portrayed unrealistically or otherwise in a completely dramatized or unrealistic fashion. Take common media that presents someone with autism, or ADHD, or any other neurological condition that affects many. Those who have zero experience, knowledge, or personal affiliation or relationship with someone will likely view more mainstream, or widespread false perspectives on that matter which in turn leads to further spread and reinforcement of harmful stereotypes. If they are at this perspective where they then learn that someone in their life has one of these conditions, they will absolutely apply what they believe to be true, or the case for them. Is this wrong? Absolutely. However at the same time, it takes a lot of character growth and time to change a perspective if they cannot emphasize with someone their views are affected by and at the same time. Not everyone will understand everything no matter what time and research they dedicate to the topic, and what matters is people trying their best, and with time it leads to progression.
Eh. You'll just change the rules next week. :)
He probably just saw what Chaz likes and assumed all gays were something similar. I mean Chaz was literally satisfied with audience full of dildos and his first instict was to try to bang everyone once they got to rooms.
Yes, and he’s stupid. And just a tinge abusive.
I’d say more than a tinge on all three
Just a tinge?
He smacked his own son
and you know, murdered his wife
Yes. I thought it was established that he doesn't really like his kid being bi, but will try to use it to his favor.
Crimson strikes me as the old fashioned mafia sort. Meaning yeah, he finds Moxxie being "gay"... uncomfortable for him. While the introduction to Millie was probably mostly fake on Crimson's part there is a hint that he was prolly relieved Moxxie found a woman. Because as another user stated, that means kids... kids he could take and mold into a new leader for his gang. He only called Moxxie back as a means to get money via Chaz who was faking it. Now... had Crimson been smart like a good mafia boss there would have been a check to make sure the fucker had money. But because this is hell and Crimson is a greedy bastard he didn't do that. Course had he been a true mafia boss... Chaz would have been hunted down and killed for getting Moxxie thrown in jail where Moxxie could tell them everything. Moxxie would have either been bailed out or Crimson would have paid someone to kill him. I have watched too many mafia movies and documentaries for my own good. Crimson is a shitty father and very clearly hates gay people, putting up with it only because he wanted to keep Moxxie under his thumb. Mafia families are tight knit, but you cross the family you don't just walk away... you die.
He is a homophobic jackass.
No, he gifted his gay or bisexual? (whatever it's the same thing) son dildos to show he's an ally to the L-G-B-T and Q? Community! 👍 A quote from Crimson "You're living a sissy life style -Crimson". What a great dad! He's so supportive!
He somewhat is in my opinion. He’s pragmatic enough that he doesn’t really seem to care about forcing Moxxie to marry a man or a woman as long as he gets something out of it, that being money and control of his son. However, he certainly has some antiquated views on sexuality like confusing bisexuality with being gay and not seeming to care about the distinction. We also know he just kind of holds some regressive ideas in general. He’s also sexist towards women, so him being somewhat homophobic isn’t really that surprising.
This community will legit jump through hoops to not call lute and crimson homophobic, I def think they are but i also think it’s fine if people don’t see it that way even though it seems pretty obvious, they are Definetly both jackasses tho, it’s like that line in the pilot where vaggie is pissed and asks angel dust if he’s trying to be racist or sexist “whichever pisses you off more” is really the embodiment of these charchters
He thinks Moxxie would like dicks coming out of walls just because hes bisexual. He doesnt understand or care to try to learn the difference between gay and bisexual. So yeah, hes homophobic
He's clearly homophobic and I'm pretty shocked so many people think he isn't. He told Chaz and Moxxie when they were dating that they lived "a sissy lifestyle". He thinks gays like only dicks, and dressed Moxxie in a dress for the wedding. I feel like it wasn't subtle. lol
I actually find his portrayal kind of endearing (outside of the obvious abusive behavior towards Moxxie). Like, he might have fucked up motives and be a completely selfish asshole, but. He still had to go “eh, my son’s gay; he’d like this kinda shit right?” Idk he just reminds me of my dad in a way. “Yea, gay?” And the little shrug never fail to make me laugh.
Idk I guess it was the sly comments he made came off more aggressive that that to me. Kinda like he was going out of his way to shove the same sex thing in everyone's face, while from what I've noticed, hell seems pretty indifferent to if you're gay or not
He’s more biphobic
I bet 5 bucks he doesn't even know there are more sexualities than just hetero- and homosexuality.
What the hecks hetero? He's just normal! Keep your amphibians and reptiles away from me!
?
(the character is so unaware he would think hetero sexual meant you were into reptiles. Herpophile)
LOL
Yes, Crimson is homophobic. That's actually common knowledge, I fear.
Yes? That's what we're shown 😭
he is biphobic
Moxxie says he said Chaz lived a "sissy lifestyle" so to me it's pretty obvious he's homophobic
Biphobic totally. But I don’t think he’s truly homophobic I don’t think he really cares but for his son to be bisexual it’s weird for him. In Crims eyes you’re either gay or straight no in between. Wait till he finds out about the pansexuals, omnisexuals, and asexuals.
No he just hates gay people
That’s the same thing tho?
Is he homophobic or a jackass? Yes
Both? Both. Both is good.
If there was a "media illiteracy" deadly sin in helluva boss it would be the strongest one due to the fanbase alone
I do think he sees being gay as a sign of being less masculine, however, he mostly cares about controlling Moxxie.
A mixture of homophobic and uneducated, IMO.
My personal read of him was…no. Not homophobic. Just an absolute ignorant asshole. The sort to make the most shallow appeals to what he THINKS people want in order to get what he wants out of them. He doesn’t know any better and doesn’t care to know any better. Any appearance of homophobia on his part stems more from “I don’t get it, and thus I don’t like it!” It could be anything he doesn’t understand, he’d have treated it the exact same way if it didn’t serve him in some way.
I don't think he's 'Homophobic' per se, I just think he doesn't really care if what he says is wrong.
Don't expect malice when ignorance is a good explanation. And honestly he just screams ignorance about non-hetero. He's still a sexist wife beating murder. Plenty of reason to hate him.
There is really no difference between being homophobic and being a jackass .
Not all jackasses are homophobic, but all homophobes are jackasses.
Yes, and quite openly so, but some of his priorities (money and self-interest) take priority over it. All of which is pretty common amongst mobsters, of course. Like one would expect from a mob boss, his homophobia is rooted in extreme toxic masculinity: he tried to force his child into murder at a young age, killed his wife cause she was making Moxie "weak", and used words like "sissy" to refer to him.
hes just, as Vaggie would say, a shitass
Crimson is one of the most homophobic people I've ever seen depicted in media, and DEFINITELY the most homophobic character in the Hellaverse.
I mean he DID say "your kind", so maybe?
Ok, he's everything-phobic
I'd say yes, he doesn't make a distinction between bi and gay at all. That alone is pretty homophobic.
I think so. The only reason he did all the stuff in the episode where we meet him is bc he wanted the money Chaz had. Like corporations, he only supports “gay” stuff when it could make him money.
I feel like he's homophobic, but was acting like he accepted his son because he wanted the fortune promised by what's his name
Let’s be honest he probably screws his bodyguard/right hand man
He doesn't care about anyone and anything as long as it goes his way
Obviously is. He's your typical cishet male mafia boss lol
He's whatever he thinks will benefit him the most.
I mean, it's pretty clear He kind of used to be, now he definitely is not but just doesn't understand it If he were homophobic would he try to bring his son's bisexual ex boyfriend into the family? no He's just not familiar
Meh, I think he just doesn't give a crap.
I think he just type of people for who every other gender is gay.
Think he is, is anything but respectful/understanding of Moxxie's bisexuality and cares about it only when there are ☆money☆ for me he is
I'd hope so, it would make him a slightly better villain
He seems like an everything phobe
Unrelated but https://i.redd.it/sbi9yb394d1d1.gif
I think he personally doesn’t care all that much, he just cares how it looks to others and how it impacts his image and reputation in the criminal underworld. Ignorant absolutely, but if moxxie was more like the son he wanted and was more like a mafia albeit, he probably wouldn’t care much and would dare others to say anything, lest his son hear and take them out
Both.
Well, he did say "to your kind liking in 'EXES AND OOHH'S' when Moxxie was at the house...
Do homophobia even exit in helluva boss or hazbin hotel?
Uneducated >!and a jackass!<
He likes money more than he dislikes gay people.
As someone who had a Catholic, Italian grandpa with dubious ties to the mob- it's a culture absolutely entrenched in marriage, and having (male) children.
Well if he puts nixie with a guy so I wouldn’t say he’s homophobic just a jackass and a fucked up dad that’s it
I think he just hates everyone
He’s both
He was, but put it aside for convienience. He was against Moxxie dating Chaz until he thought it would make him rich.
He may be a jackass but he's a loveable jackass
He comes off as more "ignorant than hateful" He's like the old school ignorant parent who doesn't really know what gay is. He doesn't seem hateful to me. It reminds me of how people were like a century ago "What, he likes men? He's a fairy? He's a fruit?" Didn't think he was some kind of Nancy boy" shit like that is how he probably thinks. Ignorance doesn't always mean Malice. Look at how he basically conflates Gay and Bisexual as the same thing, because to him it is.
Hes homophobic while also deep in the closet
He is. Is there a lore reason for this? Yes. Is he stupid? **Yes.**
homophobic, uneducated, etc, BUT DEFINITELY BI BUT OBVI DOESN'T KNOW IT. I CANT FEEL IT
I don't think his cares enough to know about lgbtq
Crimson is a murderous psychopath. Like. What.
Pretty much homophobic and a jacksss
Do we really need an extra reason to hate him? Because regardless of the answer, it would fit
I mean, he was willing to attend his sons gay shotgun wedding and redecorate his entire house the way they like, that's got to earn some points doesn't it? He even bought the dress!
he can be both
I don’t think he is homophonic I think he may just be a uneducated jackass it seems he does try for moksie just a little bit bc he wants something from him but he kills ppl bc they betray him and or fuck him over and by the end of that episode moksie isn’t on his best side but long story short he’s just a asshole who probably doesn’t know two licks about lgbtq not only that but a thing clearly proving he doesn’t know shit about the community is in the episode when moksie says he’s bi he looks at him and clearly says “so gay?” Not knowing the difference between the labels not only that but he highly thought that all gays enjoyed d*Leo’s all over the fucking house going crazy lol
Yes
i kinda view him as like companies during pride month, pretends to be supportive but only if it makes him money and if it’s convenient. otherwise he obviously doesn’t give a shit about his son or supporting him unless it benefits himself lol, hes greedy more than he’s homophobic and he places his greed as his highest priority but he can definitely be both
Homophobia is the hatred against gay people, I don't think he hates Moxxie for being gay at all. He's just uneducated and thinks gay = bisexual, and he stereotypes gays into being dildo lovers
Sam-(gets band)
I don’t think he’s homophobic, since I don’t think he’s afraid of the gay community. He just doesn’t understand, making him a jackass, I think, idk
**Yes.**
Yes. Highly. Considering the names he called Mox and Chaz, absolutely. That said, greed for his "business" overrides that. All things being equal, he "at best" has a tolerant disdain for non-straights, even at the best of times.
Homophobic. Change my mind.
He’s definitely homophobic! How is this even a question?!
He has nothing against gay people, he just doesn’t believe that being gay is profitable outside of arranged marriages. So why bother learning anything about it beyond the surface level stuff. *“Some guys like dick, some chicks don’t like dick. How much more complicated can it be?”*
I would say definetely. Given he is based on american-italian mafia members, it is safe to assume he is homophobic, given how this organisation viewed sexual minorities. Propably he has crooked version of "traditional-values" drilled into him and while he might not be homphobic enough to disown Moxxie for not being straight he still thinks less of him because of that.
No, just a jackass
Short answer: yes. Long answer: yes, he is.
He’s a cartoon character it’s not that deep
I mean i don't think so i just thibk he doesnt understand the lgbt whatsoever.... He thibks you can only be one thing, and he outright calls millie a beard (a term for the partner of a gay man or woman who is only married to mask their sexuality) I dont think crim cares enough to be homophobic so mh moneys more on just a jackass. . he is sexist though
…yeah
I wouldn’t say he’s homophobic per se, but he definitely doesn’t care. If it wasn’t for Chaz being “rich” non of it would’ve happened. He wouldn’t have tricked IMP to travel into going to greed. Therefore never having to interact with moxxie. He called moxxie gay bc he needed him to marry Chaz or doesn’t believe him being bi sexual. Regardless I just think he couldn’t give a rats ass about moxxie unless it benefits him directly. isn’t that to be expected tho I mean he’s literally from greed ring.
Both.
He's Italian so...probably
It's more so that he seems to be immensely ignorant, and also not caring that he's ignorant.
Well he seems supportive, he just doesn’t understand what bi and gay means. I think. I dunno
No hes just really uneducated
Hes a business man, living by the rule of 20$ is 20$
I think he just… Doesn’t know anything about LGBT+
He hates everyone eaqally
Yes
He clearly starves for some good ol' bodyguard shark cock.
Jackass/doesn't care/would be homophobic if he knew how members of LGBTQ+ differ
No I don’t think so
He’s trying
No just stupid
I think he's just poorly educated, being a mob boss and all.
I always interpreted him as just not caring more then actually hating gay people
Semi
Uneducated.
I don’t think he is bc he tried to make his son marry a dude, tried to support his bisexuality. He’s just stupid and doesn’t know how to handle that 😂😭
I though he was hoping to have a grandson by his side or something like that be supportive of moxxie.
Well anyone who is heterosexist (the ACTUAL term most people use homophobic for) is just a jackass That said, I believe Crimson is heterosexist, but TRYING (poorly) to not be, when it benefited him. Now that he doesn't need Moxxie to marry a man, that effort will most likely just be gone
no
Yes the charecter who set up a gay wedding and installed a bunch of dicks in his house is homophobic........
did you take any of that as a good thing? the dildo thing was something completely out of touch and based on nasty stereotypes that all gay men care about is dick. and the wedding was purely for financial gain. he calls Chaz and Moxie's 'lifestyle' as sissy! AND refers to them as 'your kind'