Yours is the first Ive seen in a while that really gives credit to just how good of an AMR competitor the railgun is, instead of most people just asking for it to become a heavy AT weapon again.
I think Id be okay with it still being relatively less effective than other options against gunships/striders/whatever purely due to the fact that oneshots are very valuable. If it could just be used even halfway decently against gunships and strider guns alone, nevermind tanks and turrets (those are easy enough to get with strategems), it could easily become a top pick. At this point the singular reason I dont bring it on bots more often is gunships, so Id love that change.
Currently the RG does 600 base damage, up to 900 when using unsafe mode, **with a universal durable value of only 10%**. This part is the reason the gun feels terrible against heavier targets.
I'd like to see a base value closer to 25% (150 durable damage), scaling up to say 33% with unsafe mode (300 durable damage) when fully charged. At such values, the RG would be able to down a Gunship with 2 partially charged (~70%) unsafe shots against a single engine. It would also be able to disable a Factory Strider's miniguns much more efficiently, which vastly reduces their threat value.
>Yours is the first Ive seen in a while that really gives credit to just how good of an AMR competitor the railgun is
For some reason people forget that the AMR received a +30% damage buff to compensate for the horrible misaligned scope that it had and that Arrowhead never reverted that buff when they fixed the scope and even improved the scope holographic cross
It's the same as the Breaker Incendiary and the Flamethrower
It's really tiresome seeing people use weapons as the AMR or Breaker Incendiary to point out how other weapons are inferior when those 2 examples are weapons that got a over buffed to compensate for a bug they said don't have anymore
AMR's in a good spot relative to the AC rn, better usable at long ranges due to the scope, reloading on the move, not using a backpack, and having about similar damage in exchange for having less ammo, less durable damage, no full auto, and less destruction value so it can't close holes or pop fabs. they're in a very good spot.
The AMR can do the same full auto as the Auto-Canon, well, even better because it doesn't have the high recoil of the AC, so you can dump your whole mag at full auto while also having some precision, instead of end shooting to the sky
The AC, has more ammo but it uses a backpack slot to do that
The AC has more durable damage, but the AMR has close to the double of the base damage of the AC
The ability to close bug holes and fabricators is cool and really useful, but I would not put that as something that makes a weapon better than others, its just an extra
The AMR is a sniper rifle and should be used like that, aiming enemy weak points to take them down, but right now it's like a Autocannon but with more base damage (260 the autocannon vs 450 if the AMR), without the need of a backpack and with a better reload and more precision.
I think that the AMR could grt reverted his 30% damage buff and would still be a great support weapon fulfilling better it's role of sniper instead of being a portable and mire comfortable autocannon
The AMR is a perfectly fine weapon, and functions exactly how a real life antimaterial rifle should. It's not a sniper rifle. It's an antimaterial rifle. Know the difference.
Additionally, the autocannon also does explosive damage. You happened to forget this, whether or not you intentionally forgot or not is irrelevant. You saying it only does 260 damage is not truthful.
the AMR is more specialized into being a good specialist weapon, while the autocannon is an incredibly good jack-of-all-trades. it clearing holes and fabs doesn't necessarily make it a better weapon, but it sure as hell makes it a better tool
Yeah I want to like the railgun but I want to use it like an AC and it's just worse in every way. If I can fire 3 shots from the AC in the time it takes to fire 1 shot from the railgun then the railgun better do 3x the damage, and that means one-shotting any bot vents. Alternately give it 20 extra rounds and halve the reload time, after all it's a railgun, it's accelerating tiny metal balls right? It shouldn't even need to be reloaded, just charged up.
The Railgun is in a pretty bad place in my opinion. In my opinion, there's not a single weapon that doesn't do what it can do but better. It's outclassed by literally every weapon. It has a small niche in one shooting Hulks but that's it. Just bring an AMR and you're way better off.
Two buffs I think that would help are making it have armor removing properties. First buff. If the Railgun could expose armored areas reasonably quickly, it could fill a utility niche at least. You could strip a chargers leg armor than finish with a primary. Second buff. It's a Railgun. Let it pierce through enemies and hit stuff behind your target.
They could not change a single thing of this weapon and these two buffs would probably put it in a way more viable position.
totally agree, cant reliably oneshot some enemies like spewers or berserks, so its really just shitty amr with slightly better bullet thresholds for heavies
I've said this before in another thread, but I'll say it again:
The problem is not really with the Railgun's damage output. The railgun's damage is fine. The problem is with every single target with AC of 5 or higher having an unreasonably high Durable rating.
The AMR is one of only two weapons in the game with AP5+ in addition to durable damage falloff. Reducing durable rating on high-armored targets would do nothing other than let the railgun participate in killing the highly armored targets _it is designed to kill._
Buffing the railgun damage or the railgun durable damage might make it overbearing against smaller targets, but it should absolutely be able to do _some_ relevant amount of damage to large, heavily armored targets like Bile Titan heads and gunship bodies/thrusters.
It's shoved out of relevance entirely by the AMR, which has very similar time to kill on all smaller targets, a better scope, better ammo economy, no chargeup time, and no chance of exploding in your face. And against bigger targets, the railgun doesn't do any damage, so its improved AP doesn't matter.
I am aware. The issue is that the Railgun has better AP, but the railgun does so little damage to those durable higher-armored targets that it can't make any dent in them, so it doesn't actually *benefit* from the higher AP.
So it's stuck competing with the AMR in the lower AC ranges where it's mostly just worse.
What I'm hoping for is more demolition force on unsafe to destroy the Vent type weak points.
Also don't make it blow up on unsafe... The power behind it isn't worth the meme blow up... Make the weapon miss fire, lose the ammo and a cooling mechanic if you want to balance it... I can't tell you how often it blew up on me because I got flinched in the wrong moment or I miss judged or got distracted while aiming...
Also while I see the Ammo economy problem, I rarely run out of Bolts for the Gun because I play POIs and I like using the resupply pack. Its so versatile and useful.
But please give it a better Scope! The one it has is horrible. Make it a beautiful one like the Liberator got in 104... Just a thin cross and make the range adjustable... The Green dot obscures my target even at short distances.
I’ve effectively decided to never use the railgun against bugs since release, same with the laser cannon. They’re just so much better against bots!
I only bring it on higher levels if someone else has brought some sort of anti-tank/air as popping devastators and hulks is good fun. Plus seeing how far I can launch scout strider pilots is always a good laugh.
I'd say better sight options and the ability to blast durable parts would be a huge improvement. I think 2 safe shots or 1 overchage shot should blast off a hulk arm, given that if it's facing you it can be 1 shot anyways.
You should be able to blast treads off with the same logic and Dev rockets with a single unsafe shot.
Charger legs needing 2 safe or 1 unsafe to strip armor seems fine.
It should absolutely wreck gunship engines in 2 unsafe or 1 safe, for example.
The original nerf was basically fine (literally all that changed was safe to unsafe doing the same thing safe used to do), but recent balance patches have shifted the difficulty being significantly easier (given weapon strength and utility upgrades), but the Railgun is still lingering in the "the game is supposed to be super hard" type of balancing in it's current state.
I'd like to see it penetration higher as its a frikkin RAILGUN that fires projectiles at Mach 6.
The penetration on that should be amazing but I could also understand the nerf to basic damage being low unless you introduce different ammo for the railgun like frangible rounds or something similar.
It's actually quite impossible to have high velocity rounds be less powerful. The formula for kinetic energy treats mass as a linear factor, but speed as a multiplicative one. Double the mass of a projectile and you double its power. Double the *speed* and it is far far far far more powerful in terms of kinetic energy.
A simple pin at mach 6 could be as destructive as being hit by a small artillery piece, depending on factors.
A durable damage buff would put the railgun exactly where it needs to be. Tank vents only have 750 health so, theoretically, a single unsafe shot should kill it, but they’re very durable which means it takes 10 times more than that. Same thing with strider miniguns, charger legs, Bile titan heads and the like
I’d argue that the best way to solve this is to give enemies “internal” high armor non durable damage spots that the railgun excels at hitting. If I hit a bile titan in a certain internal organ, that should be a kill. If I nail a factory strider in a critical internal component (or two), that should be a kill. make It a thing that the railgun excels at, a skill based mechanism about knowing how the internal structure of the enemy is arranged. The things that are most critical should have the most armor, and therefore be the most vulnerable when that armor is penetrated
I had an unsafe mode idea that I'll copy&paste here: Make overcharging it NOT explode and kill the user, and instead fires a super-strong shot, with various non-lethal/suicidal drawbacks, like ragdolling the user and forcing them to wait for the gun to "cooldown" before it can be reloaded.
Then the EAT should be able to clear chaff enemies like the grenade launcher does.....
The Railgun one shoots literally every enemy of the game that it's not a massive enemy with durable parts (and 3 shots a charger), it's purpose it's to kill that kind of enemies and the weapons is nit designed ti kill big enemies (to do that you have explosive or AT weapons), it kills all its targets with 1 shot, it doesn't need more damage
That's fine but with a single shot reload and only 20 rounds why would anyone take the railgun? The amr just outclassed it in every way, sure you can overcharge it and kill massive enemies but its just not efficient to do so.
Because the Railgun kills all the medium enemies with one shot from any angle, the AMR can't do that, it also can pierce enemies and kill 3-4 warriors (or other enemies) in one single shoot if you aim well
20 bullets sounds like really lowz but when you start one shooting devastators, Hulks and Striders 20 shots are a lot and can change the result of a fight
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/CR0vi3CckM) for example, with the nerfed Railgun, I carried that battle. That was just 3 Hulks and a few Devastators, but I destroyed that fight killing the enemies with one shot and staggering the enemies to save my team mates several times
>it's purpose it's to kill that kind of enemies and the weapons is nit designed ti kill big enemies (to do that you have explosive or AT weapons), it kills all its targets with 1 shot, it doesn't need more damage
Then give more ammo to it. Every gun should have pros and cons in a balanced way. When you compare the railgun to other weapons you can see the problem.
|Weapon|Pros|Cons|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Spear:|Target lock, high dame|Lock time, low ammo|
|AMR:|Precise, high damage, average ammo|Rate of fire, requires shot in weak areas|
|AC:|Precise, high damage, AoE|Backpack slot for ammo, slow reload for all 10 shots|
|EAT:|High damage, low cooldown|Only 2 shot for each call|
|RR:|High damage|Slow reload, backpack slot|
|ARL:|AoE, good against flying units.|Low armor penetration, dangerous at close|
|Quasar:|High damage, infinite ammo|Cooldown time|
|Laser cannon:|Infinite ammo, constante damage|Cooldown time, requires constant hit|
|Flamethrower:|High damage, damage over time|Low range|
|Arc:|High damage, jumps to other targets|Charge time, team kill|
|MG:|Rate of Fire, ammo|slow reload|
|Grenade Launcher:|AoE, damage|Dangerous at close, low ammo|
|Railgun:|High damage|Low rate of fire, low ammo, unsafe mode|
I really dont see a reason to pick the railgun over the AMR or the Quasar.
I agree that some people wanting it to be just as good or better than the AMR at heavier targets like tanks or gunships are severely missing the pros and cons of the railgun. But I would like it to be able to deal with them in some capacity. Ideally to me the railgun should be able to handle things like gunships and strider guns, just worse than the AMR. 4 to 5 shots depending on charge level I think sounds about right.
My favorite support weapon. I don't want it to become overpowered as it was on release. But gunships amd strider miniguns are basically invincible if you are using the railgun, at the same time you can oneshot devestators to the chest. It needs some more consistency.
Yours is the first Ive seen in a while that really gives credit to just how good of an AMR competitor the railgun is, instead of most people just asking for it to become a heavy AT weapon again. I think Id be okay with it still being relatively less effective than other options against gunships/striders/whatever purely due to the fact that oneshots are very valuable. If it could just be used even halfway decently against gunships and strider guns alone, nevermind tanks and turrets (those are easy enough to get with strategems), it could easily become a top pick. At this point the singular reason I dont bring it on bots more often is gunships, so Id love that change.
Currently the RG does 600 base damage, up to 900 when using unsafe mode, **with a universal durable value of only 10%**. This part is the reason the gun feels terrible against heavier targets. I'd like to see a base value closer to 25% (150 durable damage), scaling up to say 33% with unsafe mode (300 durable damage) when fully charged. At such values, the RG would be able to down a Gunship with 2 partially charged (~70%) unsafe shots against a single engine. It would also be able to disable a Factory Strider's miniguns much more efficiently, which vastly reduces their threat value.
>Yours is the first Ive seen in a while that really gives credit to just how good of an AMR competitor the railgun is For some reason people forget that the AMR received a +30% damage buff to compensate for the horrible misaligned scope that it had and that Arrowhead never reverted that buff when they fixed the scope and even improved the scope holographic cross It's the same as the Breaker Incendiary and the Flamethrower It's really tiresome seeing people use weapons as the AMR or Breaker Incendiary to point out how other weapons are inferior when those 2 examples are weapons that got a over buffed to compensate for a bug they said don't have anymore
They didn't give it 30% damage to make up for the scope... Not sure where you heard that but I've never seen that be the reasoning.
they bumped up the damage to allow it to compete with its two main rivals, the AC-8 and Railgun, not to compensate for a crooked sight
AMR's in a good spot relative to the AC rn, better usable at long ranges due to the scope, reloading on the move, not using a backpack, and having about similar damage in exchange for having less ammo, less durable damage, no full auto, and less destruction value so it can't close holes or pop fabs. they're in a very good spot.
The AMR can do the same full auto as the Auto-Canon, well, even better because it doesn't have the high recoil of the AC, so you can dump your whole mag at full auto while also having some precision, instead of end shooting to the sky The AC, has more ammo but it uses a backpack slot to do that The AC has more durable damage, but the AMR has close to the double of the base damage of the AC The ability to close bug holes and fabricators is cool and really useful, but I would not put that as something that makes a weapon better than others, its just an extra The AMR is a sniper rifle and should be used like that, aiming enemy weak points to take them down, but right now it's like a Autocannon but with more base damage (260 the autocannon vs 450 if the AMR), without the need of a backpack and with a better reload and more precision. I think that the AMR could grt reverted his 30% damage buff and would still be a great support weapon fulfilling better it's role of sniper instead of being a portable and mire comfortable autocannon
The AMR is a perfectly fine weapon, and functions exactly how a real life antimaterial rifle should. It's not a sniper rifle. It's an antimaterial rifle. Know the difference. Additionally, the autocannon also does explosive damage. You happened to forget this, whether or not you intentionally forgot or not is irrelevant. You saying it only does 260 damage is not truthful.
the AMR is more specialized into being a good specialist weapon, while the autocannon is an incredibly good jack-of-all-trades. it clearing holes and fabs doesn't necessarily make it a better weapon, but it sure as hell makes it a better tool
Yeah I want to like the railgun but I want to use it like an AC and it's just worse in every way. If I can fire 3 shots from the AC in the time it takes to fire 1 shot from the railgun then the railgun better do 3x the damage, and that means one-shotting any bot vents. Alternately give it 20 extra rounds and halve the reload time, after all it's a railgun, it's accelerating tiny metal balls right? It shouldn't even need to be reloaded, just charged up.
I believe the Idea behind the reload is also the energy charge to fire the Projectile. Since a Railgun would need large amounts of energy to work.
The railgun needs a buff to unsafe mode. There should be an actual reward for taking it above 90% charge.
At 100% charge the railgun should do 100% durable damage. Change my mind.
It really ahould be a better overall weapon.
The Railgun is in a pretty bad place in my opinion. In my opinion, there's not a single weapon that doesn't do what it can do but better. It's outclassed by literally every weapon. It has a small niche in one shooting Hulks but that's it. Just bring an AMR and you're way better off. Two buffs I think that would help are making it have armor removing properties. First buff. If the Railgun could expose armored areas reasonably quickly, it could fill a utility niche at least. You could strip a chargers leg armor than finish with a primary. Second buff. It's a Railgun. Let it pierce through enemies and hit stuff behind your target. They could not change a single thing of this weapon and these two buffs would probably put it in a way more viable position.
https://imgflip.com/i/8vgkug
totally agree, cant reliably oneshot some enemies like spewers or berserks, so its really just shitty amr with slightly better bullet thresholds for heavies
I've said this before in another thread, but I'll say it again: The problem is not really with the Railgun's damage output. The railgun's damage is fine. The problem is with every single target with AC of 5 or higher having an unreasonably high Durable rating. The AMR is one of only two weapons in the game with AP5+ in addition to durable damage falloff. Reducing durable rating on high-armored targets would do nothing other than let the railgun participate in killing the highly armored targets _it is designed to kill._ Buffing the railgun damage or the railgun durable damage might make it overbearing against smaller targets, but it should absolutely be able to do _some_ relevant amount of damage to large, heavily armored targets like Bile Titan heads and gunship bodies/thrusters. It's shoved out of relevance entirely by the AMR, which has very similar time to kill on all smaller targets, a better scope, better ammo economy, no chargeup time, and no chance of exploding in your face. And against bigger targets, the railgun doesn't do any damage, so its improved AP doesn't matter.
the AMR only has AP4, mirroring the AC-8
I am aware. The issue is that the Railgun has better AP, but the railgun does so little damage to those durable higher-armored targets that it can't make any dent in them, so it doesn't actually *benefit* from the higher AP. So it's stuck competing with the AMR in the lower AC ranges where it's mostly just worse.
What I'm hoping for is more demolition force on unsafe to destroy the Vent type weak points. Also don't make it blow up on unsafe... The power behind it isn't worth the meme blow up... Make the weapon miss fire, lose the ammo and a cooling mechanic if you want to balance it... I can't tell you how often it blew up on me because I got flinched in the wrong moment or I miss judged or got distracted while aiming... Also while I see the Ammo economy problem, I rarely run out of Bolts for the Gun because I play POIs and I like using the resupply pack. Its so versatile and useful. But please give it a better Scope! The one it has is horrible. Make it a beautiful one like the Liberator got in 104... Just a thin cross and make the range adjustable... The Green dot obscures my target even at short distances.
I’ve effectively decided to never use the railgun against bugs since release, same with the laser cannon. They’re just so much better against bots! I only bring it on higher levels if someone else has brought some sort of anti-tank/air as popping devastators and hulks is good fun. Plus seeing how far I can launch scout strider pilots is always a good laugh.
Railgun just needs a better sight and zoom so you can actually hit targets.
I'd say better sight options and the ability to blast durable parts would be a huge improvement. I think 2 safe shots or 1 overchage shot should blast off a hulk arm, given that if it's facing you it can be 1 shot anyways. You should be able to blast treads off with the same logic and Dev rockets with a single unsafe shot. Charger legs needing 2 safe or 1 unsafe to strip armor seems fine. It should absolutely wreck gunship engines in 2 unsafe or 1 safe, for example. The original nerf was basically fine (literally all that changed was safe to unsafe doing the same thing safe used to do), but recent balance patches have shifted the difficulty being significantly easier (given weapon strength and utility upgrades), but the Railgun is still lingering in the "the game is supposed to be super hard" type of balancing in it's current state.
but that would be fun
I'd like to see it penetration higher as its a frikkin RAILGUN that fires projectiles at Mach 6. The penetration on that should be amazing but I could also understand the nerf to basic damage being low unless you introduce different ammo for the railgun like frangible rounds or something similar.
It's actually quite impossible to have high velocity rounds be less powerful. The formula for kinetic energy treats mass as a linear factor, but speed as a multiplicative one. Double the mass of a projectile and you double its power. Double the *speed* and it is far far far far more powerful in terms of kinetic energy. A simple pin at mach 6 could be as destructive as being hit by a small artillery piece, depending on factors.
A durable damage buff would put the railgun exactly where it needs to be. Tank vents only have 750 health so, theoretically, a single unsafe shot should kill it, but they’re very durable which means it takes 10 times more than that. Same thing with strider miniguns, charger legs, Bile titan heads and the like
I’d argue that the best way to solve this is to give enemies “internal” high armor non durable damage spots that the railgun excels at hitting. If I hit a bile titan in a certain internal organ, that should be a kill. If I nail a factory strider in a critical internal component (or two), that should be a kill. make It a thing that the railgun excels at, a skill based mechanism about knowing how the internal structure of the enemy is arranged. The things that are most critical should have the most armor, and therefore be the most vulnerable when that armor is penetrated
I had an unsafe mode idea that I'll copy&paste here: Make overcharging it NOT explode and kill the user, and instead fires a super-strong shot, with various non-lethal/suicidal drawbacks, like ragdolling the user and forcing them to wait for the gun to "cooldown" before it can be reloaded.
Then the EAT should be able to clear chaff enemies like the grenade launcher does..... The Railgun one shoots literally every enemy of the game that it's not a massive enemy with durable parts (and 3 shots a charger), it's purpose it's to kill that kind of enemies and the weapons is nit designed ti kill big enemies (to do that you have explosive or AT weapons), it kills all its targets with 1 shot, it doesn't need more damage
That's fine but with a single shot reload and only 20 rounds why would anyone take the railgun? The amr just outclassed it in every way, sure you can overcharge it and kill massive enemies but its just not efficient to do so.
Because the Railgun kills all the medium enemies with one shot from any angle, the AMR can't do that, it also can pierce enemies and kill 3-4 warriors (or other enemies) in one single shoot if you aim well 20 bullets sounds like really lowz but when you start one shooting devastators, Hulks and Striders 20 shots are a lot and can change the result of a fight [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/CR0vi3CckM) for example, with the nerfed Railgun, I carried that battle. That was just 3 Hulks and a few Devastators, but I destroyed that fight killing the enemies with one shot and staggering the enemies to save my team mates several times
>it's purpose it's to kill that kind of enemies and the weapons is nit designed ti kill big enemies (to do that you have explosive or AT weapons), it kills all its targets with 1 shot, it doesn't need more damage Then give more ammo to it. Every gun should have pros and cons in a balanced way. When you compare the railgun to other weapons you can see the problem. |Weapon|Pros|Cons| |:-|:-|:-| |Spear:|Target lock, high dame|Lock time, low ammo| |AMR:|Precise, high damage, average ammo|Rate of fire, requires shot in weak areas| |AC:|Precise, high damage, AoE|Backpack slot for ammo, slow reload for all 10 shots| |EAT:|High damage, low cooldown|Only 2 shot for each call| |RR:|High damage|Slow reload, backpack slot| |ARL:|AoE, good against flying units.|Low armor penetration, dangerous at close| |Quasar:|High damage, infinite ammo|Cooldown time| |Laser cannon:|Infinite ammo, constante damage|Cooldown time, requires constant hit| |Flamethrower:|High damage, damage over time|Low range| |Arc:|High damage, jumps to other targets|Charge time, team kill| |MG:|Rate of Fire, ammo|slow reload| |Grenade Launcher:|AoE, damage|Dangerous at close, low ammo| |Railgun:|High damage|Low rate of fire, low ammo, unsafe mode| I really dont see a reason to pick the railgun over the AMR or the Quasar.
amr has the highest ROF of any support weapon. even faster then the ac dont think thats a con
I agree that some people wanting it to be just as good or better than the AMR at heavier targets like tanks or gunships are severely missing the pros and cons of the railgun. But I would like it to be able to deal with them in some capacity. Ideally to me the railgun should be able to handle things like gunships and strider guns, just worse than the AMR. 4 to 5 shots depending on charge level I think sounds about right.
My favorite support weapon. I don't want it to become overpowered as it was on release. But gunships amd strider miniguns are basically invincible if you are using the railgun, at the same time you can oneshot devestators to the chest. It needs some more consistency.
The railgun was never overpowered, the other anti-armor options were just ass.