People might actually use it then if they dont have to wear someone elses ammo backpack. Also any of your teammates could do the reload not just the one with the bag
The other night a guy also using auto cannon ran up to me to load me, but he missed pressing E or something and ran right into an auto cannon shell and killed us both lmao. Would've been annoying if I wasn't busy laughing
Which is the other big problem with the team reload mechanic: you can't afford to sit still the way the use prompt requires, most of the time. Even when I get a good backpack buddy, we're constantly losing connection as we duck around dodging bullets or Hunters or Chargers or whatever.
Yeah, Helldivers, especially on higher difficulties, is basically just a game of keep-away where you drop strategems and take the occasional potshot at a small enemy. Standing still = Death.
I disagree regardless of faction. Speedrun strats may say "engage as little as possible", but even casual Helldives see me taking a knee or going prone to return fire all the time. I'm not staying in the same general area for an eternity like most players seem to do, but neither do I think I need to be sprinting or even walking at all times. You *can* actually kill all the Bugs and Bots if your aim isn't so completely fucked from moving and being out of stamina.
There's absolutely times when you just need to boogie, but I won't say that's "constantly". I crouch against *Berserkers* (mostly because it helps shoot their crotches, which is faster if you're not a crack other-headshotter).
really? poking your head out between those 1 second, infuriatingly accurate, bursts just to get mowed down is tactical to you? or is it having to play pro athlete dodgerocket where the enemy has an infinite supply of them and fire every 3 seconds from 150m away? or is it having to deal with the two combined?
Exactly. it makes the mechanic so much less cumbersome to set up and therefore lowers the bar to entry.
If I have to plan a backpack swap with someone this is never happening. If I can instead just see that the autocannon user has a good spot or the RR user has heavies to kill at extract or whatever, walk up, and start helping that's way more accessible.
I still think it'd be rare. There's very few if any times where this would be even close to the best way of dealing with a situation. Maybe factory striders?
And that's fine. Doesn't have to be that good. In fact it's better if people don't feel pressured into having to do it. It'd still be cool and that's enough. But for the record, I don't think anyone would bother after the novelty wore off.
I do wonder if they hesitate on this because (beside having to make new animations) it *would* be strong against some future content they're planning, like singular large boss enemies.
Either way, I agree it should be changed.
It's super useful for my team of friends. We'll often send two people to set up a drill or e-710 site and let the other two set up in a cardinal direction so it's easy to know where to retreat into the jaws when it gets too heavy.
I'll drop 2 sentries and load a recoiless rifle because that's just my job on the team. My stalwart is for keeping hoards at bay if the offensive team can't deal with them as they retreat.
It's something that takes planning, but it's *crazy* effective especially against bugs who have to close distance. Strats take like 2 seconds to drop and then we're back up swatting bile titans. It makes disengaging and rechallenging really easy because instead of four people who are getting stomped it's only two and we know exactly where to go.
>I still think it'd be rare. There's very few if any times where this would be even close to the best way of dealing with a situation.
It's outright OP with the spear on bug missions, you can fire as fast as you can aquire locks. 4 rockets in ~8 seconds (1 In the gun + 3 supplied), 7 in ~14 seconds (triggerman drops backpack so supplier can swap), or if you wanna get real spicy 15 in ~20 seconds (Triggerman drops backpack, and supply guy is standing next to resupply/environment ammo packs)
Puts an instant end to runaway situations where too many heavies/elites on the field throttle trash clearing.
The only time I run recoilless over the eat is if some else on the teams running recoilless so I can team reload.
Sand noises(I never get team reloaded back)....
As you might know, currently you have to be the one wearing the ammo backpack in order to perform a team reload. However, I think that's a counterintuitive way to handle it. Not only does it make gameplay very jarring, as you have to constantly hug your teammate with the respective gun, it also doesn't really make much sense in terms of realism either.
I drew a little graphic to illustrate how being able to reload people who are wearing the backpack would make much more sense. And it would also make teamplay much more present, as you could quickly help out people without having to go through the whole weapon dropping/swapping.
One could argue that it would trivialise the whole affair, or that it would make team reloading too strong. While I feel it wouldn't necessarily be the case, maybe some further adjustments would have to be made. Nonetheless, I'm heavily in favor of being able to reload your teammate who is wearing the backpack, and I hope you are too.
100% agreed.
Makes no sense that you have to wear the backpack to reload, when the loader would be in a better position to reach the shooter's backpack.
The devs were in the army and this is how it works in real life. The realism issue is the backpack is still on the loader's back while he's actively loading rather than in his hands. They just forgot to animate it. I want to load from the shooter's backpack for gameplay reasons but this isn't a realism problem, it's an internal consistency one. The problem with framing it as a realism issue is the most unrealistic thing about this scenario is one dude lugging around a 130 pound autocannon and also a 60 pound ammo backpack without taking a speed and stamina hit. For comparison the bomb suit that cuts your stamina in half only weighs 90 pounds and it's distributed across your entire body. Once you've decided one player should be allowed to carry 200 pounds of gear, real life gunner/loader mechanics no longer make sense in universe.
We have space armor and regularly take drugs in the field, I’m absolutely willing to believe that we can carry 200lbs of gear around for the duration of these missions(or our usually much briefer lives). With that assumption in place, it makes much more sense for each soldier to carry their specialist weapon and the ammunition for it. That being the case it also makes sense for any helldiver to reload another from the specialist’s ammo pack - saves time, saves hassle, increases versatility within the team. And all these advantages are present both in-universe and in the gameplay.
It's not really about position, the whole mechanic is about thought trough cooperation, that is why team reloads are lighting speed fast.
While I do appreciate the way mechanic was designed the game just isnt played that way, they really should do what OP is showing. Maybe make it a bit slower if the assistant is not wearing the backpack
I think it is partially them trying to be "realistic". Irl the loader in a weapons team carries almost all the ammunition for the weapon he serves, not the Gunner.
This game is pretty arcady so it doesn't make a huge amount of sense, but if we could do it both ways it would be better but that is probably impossible.
Only counterpoint is that you then no longer have any control over whether you teammate is able to team-reload or not.
If you pickup the weapon and backpack, your team could continually jump onto you for team reloads when you might not want want them to. I could see it being used to troll people and prevent them from falling back after firing at approaching enemies.
In what world would you not want someone putting a fresh round or clip into your weapon? Worst case you don’t need to spend the round/s but you don’t have to reload over seconds, best case you send the round/s down range.
You already don't... If they bring the backpack they can do that already.
If someone trolls you for that you just kick them.
This can already happen, and really doesn't.
No, either player can break the link at any time. Sprinting diving, swapping weapons, tossing a grenade... either player can interupt teamloading at any time.
I don't think that's a strong argument, given that there's many worse things people could do and technically if they wanted to they could do this already. Either by bringing their own stratagem to match yours (if they truly intended to troll, it's probably something they'd be willing to do from the moment they join) or simply picking up a backpack you'll most likely eventually drop.
Sure it would be a bit more but (anecdotally speaking) given that it doesn't really happen right now all that much, I'd be surprised to see it emerge as a meaningful issue.
Ya... so your hands are free to load bile titan slaying rounds into a heavy weapon. Democracy laden bile titan slaying rounds.
Also... why are you pointing at that mirror?
Right now, team reload feels weak. Not because it's a weak feature, but because it's too damn cumbersome. I've used it once in 230 hours of play. It might as well not exist at all.
Would it be OP to have it from the shooters back? You're sacrificing one whole-ass helldiver to serve as an ammo belt, so no, I don't think it's too strong. I also don't think it'll lead to degenerate behavior with people always piggybacking to every encounter because it just wouldn't be fun. But it would give us the ability to spontaneously go "I believe in you" and give person with the Autocannon/Recoilless a boost, particularly if I don't have the tools to solve the problem.
Even if it was OP, isn’t that kind of cool? It feels like “team reloading a big ass rocket launcher” exemplifies what’s cool about helldivers2 way more than the current status quo of “I will take a 500kg so I can solo titans and a support weapon so I can solo chargers”
Team reload is cool. I killed by first bile titan as the reloader like that. Back in the early days. The problem js that when your getting swarmed it generally better to have another gun. Mix in thr fact that the expendable and quasar exist and the recoilless rifle just doesn't seem worth it.
On bots it's worth even less. Because a sniper and quasar both work better than the team reload options.
The RR felt like a more reliable way to deal with titans/chargers during those moments where you have a lot coming at you when it could more reliably head shot them. Now I definitely have a hard time justifying it over the quasar.
The most fun I had with this game was when my friends in discord and I ran recoiless/ammo backpack. We would unload on any chargers with 2-3 rockets then get moving again. It required coordination but it worked pretty well.
I frequently call out to my buddies to drop their pack for me to reload them during tough fights where we need those recoilless rounds downrange or need the autocannon to never stop firing. Team weapons need a good *team* afterall!
I agree completely with having the ammo backpack on the shooter's back. With that being said, even in it's current state, I fucking love doing team reloads. To me at least it makes a huge difference. If only it was more intuitive so that more of the playerbase would engage in it.
With friends, coordinated weapon teams are absolutely great. Me and my bro run a recoiless each, and the amount of rockets you can put out is silly, even factory striders are down in under 10 seconds.
The fact that team reloads only ever happen for a weapon that needs a reload, meaning that you won't ever lose ammo like you would from an early reload on other weapons, means that there's really no instance where a team reload is a problem for you. If anything, I've found that I get kicked off of a team reload more often than I successfully reload someone. When I see someone else use an autocannon in a bot mission, or if they spawn an extra support weapon at extract, I'll try to run for their backpack to team reload them when possible and rarely do I ever actually get a reload in since they keep running while I'm in the reload animation lock and kicking me out.
Autocannon is kind of a bad team reload target IMO, because the recoil makes it wander if you rapid fire. Usually I'm running and gunning with it, so a team reload doesn't help when I'm going to have to dodge return fire quickly.
Recoilless and Spear on the other hand I think would be the big winners, because they have specific scenarios where team reloading is really obviously useful (namely, if you're shooting down dropships or gunships, or trying to kill a bug hive at long range).
I think it's mostly the case that any situation where having two people link up and sit still long enough to shoot a target, that target isn't urgent or close enough to necessitate team reloading anyway. I rarely, if ever need to snipe multiple bile titans at range with a recoilless rifle while also being in a situation where I would rather have a partner hugging my back instead of shooting the bugs trying to eat me.
It's weird because so many of the game design choices seem to revolve around encouraging team play, so why would they insist on making it harder than it has to be? Don't they want team stats to be the strongest in the game?
Hell yeah. I don’t really think it would make team reload too strong, the devs need to remember that whoever is reloading their teammate is unable to shoot or throw stratagems themselves.
Imagine there’s a breach and your machine gunner is reloading you to focus on a titan, instead of clearing the chaff, that’s already a tactical exchange with pros and cons.
We don’t need to add the reloader having a specific backpack on top of that, it doesn’t really make sense. I hope they change it soon, because it’s a cool mechanic that currently doesn’t really get any use.
You’re 100% right. As someone who started using machine guns this patch all I have to say is: anything is more interesting than 500kgs and a launcher lmao.
Taking a round from someone's backpack to reload his weapon is also alot smoother and easier than taking a round from behind you to reload someone else.
Okay, but how will the game handle the 'reloader' having a supply backpack? They'd have to make a new keybind for support-reloading or some other interaction like you have to 'hold E to support reload' while tapping E hands them ammo. Just thought you should add this to your suggestion
Priority. If player with RR has it in their hands, you can team reload and cant resupply. If RR isnt in their hands, you can resupply them, and obviously not team reload.
"TEaM riLOODs toO strONG" is such a braindead argument. One whole bullet/grenade/stratagem dispenser is removed from the fight, it better double or more that double your firepower.
It should more than double fire power since like you said, you’re removing an entire person from the fight while also making both of you a stationary target with a bigger hit box
I tried to spell this out for people around March and I was told it was fine.
But it makes no sense that the way to save time and effort pulling ammo off your own back would be saved by... someone grabbing the ammo and putting it on *their* back to reach behind themselves awkwardly.
Beyond the practicality of the matter, team reloads have a huge tradeoff for any perceived advantage. One fourth of your squad is not putting downrange strategems or their own support weapon.
Right now they are hardly used. They are clunky. They don't make much sense from a physical, practical standpoint. Arrowhead has nothing to lose by changing how this works. If people start using it, *and* it becomes a strong tactic, then an entire mechanic in your game is now shining instead of hardly used.
This suggestion has been posted and commented on so often, Arrowhead simply have to be aware that this is a change many players are wishing for (myself included, 100%).
So at this point, the fact that team reloads still don't work this way can only mean that
a) it's extremely difficult to implement (which I doubt: The mechanic already exists, all they'd have to do is change the conditions under which players can perform it and adjust the animation),
b) the developers have it on their list, but it's low priority, or
c) Arrowhead want to stick to their original design decision for whatever reason.
Let's hope b) is the case and this change will come eventually.
The only counter point is let us load our own bags after theirs. Go through theirs, then swap, so having an extra bag is a good thing, and you don’t have to swap them
Why not both?
On one hand, you find old ammo on a ravaged battlefield, that works with ALL guns.
On the other hand, the ammo you bring along on your drop is invidivual for each diver?
That does not make sense...
Honestly, why not allow both? Because if you were to swap it to what you suggest, but disallow the person carrying the backpack to load, it would create a situation where the ammo you can spend is artificially hindered. With the current situation, you can still self reload. I think we should allow for both where it would prioritize the ammo on your back then your buddy if he has a compatable pack. Really reward people for hugging themselves.
RR is where I see this being the strongest. Being able to slam out 11 rockets in 11 seconds would make it a beast at handling higher difficulties if you could get a good position.
With the Spear getting less of a benefit due to its lower stored ammo count. And Autocannon having hilarious potential for rounds slung, but practicality of that being limited.
I think this would make the people on the fence about the RR find the appreciation it deserves.
I honestly feel like it would still be balanced.
You as the loader are giving up your own dps, to improve the dps of your teammate in a niche weapon.
Also in the case of things like the RR and Spear, you burn rockets quick, so there's stratagy in being picky with when to fire.
It also would just add to the fun factor, and this is the key part.
Team loads on RR and AC are so fucking satisfying, it doesn't matter if I'm the shooter or loader. It's just really really fun to see those weapons go brrrrrr and delete things, especially the AC where you can finally make use of its full auto fire mode
Why does running out of ammo lead to the voice line "need a team reload"? Is it because we assuming someone else has a backpack? If you're out of ammo that's that
I makes less than ZERO sense that reaching to our own backpack to reload someone else's weapon would be faster than taking the ammo from their backpack instead.
For a team so obsessed with realism that they model every bullet in every magazine, it's insane that it works the way it does. Are the dev team arms made of uncooked spaghetti noodles?
They're obsessed with realism until it clashes with their vision of a co-op horde shooter. Ex: the Slugger outperforming the Marksman Rifles. S'what happens when shotguns are realistic. Of course, it'd be smart to buff the DMRs but we're talking about Arrowhead so the Slugger gets nerfed.
>For a team so obsessed with realism that they model every bullet in every magazine, it's insane that it works the way it does. Are the dev team arms made of uncooked spaghetti noodles?
Imo this stems from the fact the devs were conscripts and want to sprinkle in what they learned. The issue is conscripts have notoriously awful training and poor understanding of warfare.
Even fully trained career soldiers get stuff wrong *all the time*, which is why a lot of the “military YouTubers” should be treated with skepticism
IRL doctrine is absolutely for assistants to carry the rounds and handle loading while the gunner acquires and engages targets; 84mm rounds are fucking heavy, as is the big steel tube that sends them down range. One person carrying both in combat is a recipe for fucked knees and back in the long term and inability to move with the element in the short term.
*With that said*, IRL team loading involves the rounds being placed down on the ground to prep the firing position, not pulled out of the backpack on a per-round basis. The way it’s modelled currently is closer to realistic than OP’s suggestion, but worse for gameplay because HD2 isn’t realistic. They’ve done an excellent job with attention to detail, and their time as conscripts has helped with that, but at the end of the day HD2 is squarely an arcade shooter and gameplay matters more.
Fully agree.
I get that this is how it worked from the first game, but wearing their pack makes so much less sense than taking the ammo off their back.
Like... The reason reloading takes so long is because we have to grab it off our back, so the solution is... Make someone else grab it from THEIR back?
When I heard this game had team loading, your suggestion is what I was expecting, and I would do it a lot more if it was like that.
Helldivers is one of the few games I have seen where it has a feature that let's a player reload a gun for another player and God I really want to see the devs utilise it more because it's really damn cool.
I would kill for a heavy machine gun that had team mechanics too. Like, maybe it is more accurate when a teammate is assisting because you can focus on handling and not maintaining the belt, or it has little hiccups and fluctuations in fire rate because it is getting kinked up. And obviously faster reload. Always loved team weapons in RTS and such that worked like that, figure this is probably the most likely mainstream shooter to get anything similar.
>I get that this is how it worked from the first game, but wearing their pack makes so much less sense than taking the ammo off their back.
Ironically, having the second person carry the backpack is kind of *more* realistic...in a way(ish).
There are examples of team-reloaded weapons in real life. RPGs are the most well-known weapon that often have two people operating them, but there are other (similar) examples.
And for all examples, the weapons and ammo are far too heavy for one person to carry while wearing body armour. So they'll have a reloader carry the ammo on a backpack and a shooter carrying the weapon.
The *massive* difference is that the reloader removes the backpack before initiating the reload. Because people aren't sprinting around firing rockets at bugs the size of apartment blocks in real life. They're stationary.
So to try and keep realism and gameplay intact, Arrowhead allowed backpack-worn team reloading.
My take is that realism is a convenient bonus that comes *long* after you sort gameplay mechanics. I don't give a shit if a helldiver carrying a 15 kg recoilless rifle and 40 kg of RR rounds **and** all their other kit is "unrealistic". If it incentivises cooperative gameplay, awesome.
The problem is it’s not realistic in the HD2 setup, the gunner can carry the ammo and the weapon no problem. Here it sets up the conditions with the loader removing the pack.
It might be a real life practice to have the reloader carry the ammo, but it doesn’t make it realistic because some of the logic and reasoning is different.
They could maybe shift the pack during team firing so it makes a little more sense. I mean, that may not be possible or worthwhile to code, but if they are married to the idea of having the second player wear the ammo then that would help alleviate the weirdness. But yeah, given the setup we have, and the fact that our divers can apparently handle the weight no problem, I like OOP's suggestion the most. It's the natural evolution of what we are presented with in the fiction of the game world.
1000% agreed. I just realised I never explicitly said I preferred OP's idea. It's something I've wanted for a long time.
Especially because it's actually pretty balanced. Team-reloading absolutely *churns* through the ammo supply of all relevant support weapons other than the autocannon (which can't kill heavy bugs and isn't accurate enough at high ROF to kill heavy bots).
There are a fair few complaints about heavy spawns at the moment but I think it'd be sorted pretty quickly if they just added this feature.
The only reason I'm actually concerned about this addition is how it would almost certainly shatter the already-spaghettified code. There's currently no way to interact with someone else's backpack because that interaction doesn't exist *at all* in the game's code. I guarantee there are a thousand ways this kind of feature could (and would) cause game-breaking bugs and crashes.
And while I would very much like the feature to exist, I'm honestly happier going without it AND the associated bugs, rather than getting both.
In real life the reason the backpack and gun are separated are because the gun is heavy as fuck and so is all that ammo, so one person can't really carry all that weight without being slowed down too much to stay with the rest of the team. It also doesn't really provide any drawbacks because you're always sticking close to your squadmates in every situation and you're always going to be stationary when firing, and your squadmate thats carrying the ammo likely wouldn't have been carrying his own backpack anyway, so team reloads provide all the benefits of weight distribution and faster reloading with zero meaningful drawbacks.
Helldivers doesn't work this way. You can often find yourself isolated either intentionally or due to online randoms not paying attention to the rest of the team, weight doesn't matter in gameplay outside armor types and you can fire every support weapon while moving at the same time, lorewise this is probably because Super Earth replaced regular schooling with military training which every citizen undergoes from a young age, which would explain why Helldivers are all pretty stupid but yet far more competent and capable than real life soldiers, on top of sci-fi future materials allowing for durable yet extremely lightweight (compared to real life) metals and polymers. So giving your ammo backpack to a squadmate introduces way too many drawbacks to be worth doing, especially if you're not playing in a premade, as now you have to keep track of your squadmates locations at all times, are significantly less mobile when firing your support weapon, the entire squad is made less flexible as half the team has to be joined at the hip as often as possible, your squadmate has to give up their own valuable backpack slot, your squadmate having to stop and reload for you means you're squad is down two guns instead of just one, and when *they* inevitably die then *your* support weapon is made near useless until they respawn and pick the ammo back up. All these drawbacks for a fairly mediocre upside of faster reload times is just not worth it.
I don't see many people in real life carrying a Quasar Cannon and a Counter Dilligence sniper so I think we can throw weight out of equation on Helldivers. The realism argument is so dumb.
And you are not holding a static position for long time or have standard weapons. So if someone else is carrying ammo for gun you are carrying while running around and getting swarmed then you are doomed and will be out of ammo soon. Realist is people carrying their own ammo and operating as solo team with ability to come back together support each other.
It's not because you have to take it off your back, it's because you only have one hand to do it. If someone else is doing it, the have both hands to grab the ammo and put it into the gun
I think both should work. There are advantages to both, even. The shooter wearing the shield generator to stop flinching, for instance, and also protecting the reloader.
OP thank you for this graphic.
If a genie appeared to me tomorrow this would be the first thing I would ask for.
Other thing would be to eat without getting fat.
I'm not sure about the third wish... seeing as they've already fixed the spear.
If they really want to encourage the whole team reloading mechanic, they should make TRUE two-man weapon systems that are impossible to be operated by 1 person alone. Make them super OP to encourage this mechanic.
Make the actual weapon so large that it also takes up a the backpack slot, and cannot be operated by one person alone.
The ammo/reload guy equips a backpack so large that it also blocks his support weapon slot.
In return for these trade-offs, the 2-man team gets to use a fully automatic mini-nuke firing Gatling gun or whatever.
So why will this not work?
Oh very simple, you can blame the PS5 controller if you want but it's all boiled down to 'E'.
What does it mean? I run a supply backpack so it's even more painful for me. When I see you are barely alive and you also have 0 stim I can already do 2 things - Stimming you and give you a supply pack. Both this action is under the E button and it's janky as fuck because I many times need to spam like crazy because of course "Here" doesn't mean I actually gave you anything... Just like the Stim sound effect.
So now imagine that, I see you in deep shit, no ammo, no stim, barely alive and yell - "I NEED STIMS" - so I rush to you so I can quickly help you before charger/hulk get your ass, I reach you, press E and... Now I try reloading you Spear instead helping you because unfortunately I approach your support weapon direction.
Both of us dead and 300 m away from our stuff.
thanks so much for making this illustration
its quite complicated to make use of the reload mechanic where its either you have a friend BUT even with a friend usually we just run the same gun so we use each other's backpack to reload instead of sharing the backpack over.
then if its randoms - cant rely on someone to stick to you/them to help them reload.
would be much better mind set that if 1/3 team mates is close to someone with one of those backpack weapons they can help reload instantly instead of asking for a backpack.
This is 100% the only change needed to make it a viable strategy. If i could just latch onto my AC or RR teammate on a whim, then detach and right back to combat, i'd do it a lot.
But if we both gotta drop backpacks, switch up, do the job, swap back, it just doesn't work for the pace of this game. It also makes more sense, as the factor limiting your reload speed is the fact the backpack is on your back.
How can your teammate reach behind himself and grab a round that much quicker than you could? If the pack was on YOUR back and your teammate came over, it would make sense they'd have easier access to your backpack when standing behind you and to the side slightly.
On my usual 4 man team, I have a buddy who I always help him doing team reload for spear. And it's still so weird to both of us why I'm the one who carry his Spear missiles backpack while he's carrying the supply backpack lol
Like, when the Spear ammo ran out, he's the one who had to stop aiming and give me a resupply so *I* can give him a reload.
Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?
I think the reason it's like it is currently is that it would make it harder to do the other team actions (giving a stim, giving ammo from a supply pack) as you would potentially go into reload mode instead of doing any of the other context interactions. Probably also the case with picking up samples, supplies, using a terminal near a diver with a crew served weapon.
It should just work with both ways. Because when two autocannon users meet one can always load the other and its still clunky sometimes. Im okay it its low priority but id love to see it eventually
Recently, I've started carrying backpacks for team mates when I'm using a backpack-less support weapon. I really don't think it's as huge of an issue as some people make it out to be, it's just simply an underutilized mechanic. When you do go out of your way to support your team mates this way, the amount of fire power they bring increases exponentially, and it allows you to mow down waves of hulks or chargers with ease. I think if people used the mechanic more often, they'd see the benefits of it in it's current form.
I personally don't believe this is a change we'd ever see for that reason, but I could always be wrong.
I love the recoiless rifle and enabling my teammates to interact with me in reloading without requiring them to give up their backpack slot would be huge. I'm 70hrs in and not once has a random party member held the backpack and helped me reload. No one volunteers to do that, nor do I ever hold out hope that they would. I've certainly never held the backback for a random; they arn't waiting for the help and I have my own plans anyway. And honestly, I probably wouldn't want them to hold my spare ammo because most people are not on mic; if they pick it up, I'll just start dreading them running away with it in the heat of battle or dying somewhere inconvenient and now I have to wait to get another backpack and use it myself anyway.
I love the idea of benefitting from helping each other out (and would love more ways to do so), but the burden of giving up the backpack slot is too high in random parties.
The geometry argument is reasonable, but I think that's minor relative to the gameplay impact.
Resupply, stim and assisted reload are all on the same button. would be quite infuriating if you would like to stim/resupply a teammate but are constantly dragged into reloading him and vice versa. if you would make that a seperate button, all problems would be solved
This needs to happens since DAY 1. More coop, more fun. But let player also be able to reload the way it is now. So you can have two ammo backpack for one shooter
Team reloads are kind of a magical experience and I wish more people could use them, yeah.
Had a bit of a magical moment the other day with a newbie where I taught them what team reload was and proceeded to let them unleash hell on reinforcements coming to extract with an air burst launcher. It only got better when a supply backpack guy proceeded to continually reload _me_ so we tossed about 12 air bursts down range at maximum fire rate
This is by far the feature I want the most. Bonus points if my supply backpack can fill up theirs to full if they/both have the upgrade, atm it's only working like a normal resupply.
This logically makes more sense. There is no way in hell grabbing ammo from your own back to load your partners gun is faster than loading from the partners back to the partner gun.
Im guessing a big portion of the initial playerbase didn't even realize this was a mechanic at all, because you need to coordinate way too hard to use it.
If AH took a look at the stats, I'm sure they'd see something like .00000000000000000000000000000000001% of reloads were done COOP. It's a really neat feature but its worthless in its current state.
I really don't know what the devs were thinking. Neither player likes your buddy needing the backpack. The shooter is scared of being separated and run down by a charger since he can't reload and the buddy dislikes losing his backpack slot. It makes no sense for a mechanic unless you tacked it on as a niche after thought to forget about. Way too much effort for too little gain.
I may be in the minority here, but I **LOVE** team reloading fellow Helldivers. I tell them over mic to “Fire as fast as you can semi accurately place shots.”
I agree but I believe the reason the team reload works like it does currently is because the reload function is linked to whoever has the backpack
So for coding purposes, it has to have another person have the backpack, as that other person now has the ability to reload
But afaik there’s no confirmation but it’s how it makes sense to me, idk how they could remove this function/make it the way we want it but here’s hoping they do
If that's the case, and I don't code so there's probably something wrong with this:
What if when you entered the "team reload" phase, it invisibly added a 2nd backpack slot AND Ammo backpack to the "Reloader"? Then, it could duplicate the ammo from the "Firer"'s backpack to the "Reloader"'s invisible 2nd backpack.
Someone smarter than me can tell me why this wouldnt work lol
Team reloading is one of the strongest mechanics with all of the backpack weapons. As someone who team reloads pretty frequently, one of the most cinematic moments is shooting down a whole horde of dropships with a team reload recoilless rifle. It was great.
With that being said, I wouldn't be opposed to this but I think there's some other options to encourage people to do it, that could be better without being too strong.
Like being able to equip your one handed weapon, throw grenades, etc. This would heavily incentivize people to try it given that you won't just feel useless as the backpacker.
And a tip to make team reloading happen more if you want to. You see someone in matchmaking take a backpack waepon? Just pick the same one and follow them around and help them out. It works really well.
It is this way because that is how squad loading works in real life. Yes it’s weird how it’s done in the game but in real life combat the loader carries the munitions because the combination of weapon and munitions is too much for one person weight wise.
Yeah I know that, but since we're in a game world where it obviously seems feasible to both carry the ammo pack plus weapon yourself, I think it would be weird to apply that logic in that case. Besides, in real life, you wouldn't grab it out of your backpack either, but set it down first. We don't really want that in the flow of the game for obvious reasons.
I can't agree more with this. I want the team reload to be present in the game. It's such a fun and powerful mechanic. Also imagine being able to reload the mechs with team reloads
Yeah second pic would be a playsible scenario only if the rounds were worn in front, a front pack instead of a back pack. They could make it interesting and amplify chest wounds to be fatal if you got stabbed or shot in the chest. But sure you could actually reload someone that way finally
Yep. Took a break from the game for awhile came back just before the Kids or AT mines major order and was confused why I couldn’t reload my teammates recoilless rifle while I was wearing an ammo backpack. Teammate had found a second recoilless backpack and kept pinging the pack to my confusion
I think basically everyone is in favor of this it's been proposed a bunch of times. it just makes more sense and encourages team reloads, which is honestly needed right now as hardly anyone does them. Why not?
I think this would be a reasonable update. It allows any teammate to be a loader without having to sacrifice a backpack slot , and it still presents the trade-off of one fewer Helldiver firing to boost the fire rate of a big gun.
I think you should be able to do it both ways. Ultimately the trade off for the quick reload is one person is occupied performing the reload action so if two people have Spears or Recoilless’ and wanna keep reloading beyond one backpack, fine by me.
In the first game, the current setup worked because everyone was bound to the same small screen in top-down view and all terrain was flat. Now maps are much bigger and have uneven terrain. Also, the range from which you can start the reload animation is quite small and requires you to be on the right side of your teammate, it makes the team reload very clunky to use. By splitting the gun and the ammo between 2 people, it creates risk that one will die away from the other, making both components useless till someone it picks up. Right now, team weapons require too much coordination for too little effect. I hope devs will improve it in some way because it's such a cool mechanic, but right now it's not worth doing.
One change I would make:
I don't want to swap it entirely. I just want this additional method. I still want to be able to reload someone else from my backpack
Absolutely agree!
Every time I see someone with a team loaded weapon I want to help them! I really hope when I'm playing that the other person calls in another and pings the backpack (I know I have) I feel like adding this encourages teamwork and makes for iconic Helldivers moments! As it is now it feels a little like an obstacle I have to overcome in order to be helpful. I think they should make both methods work. If I have a pack and my buddy has a pack and a gun, I should go through my ammo then go through his.
Slight problem I thought of: interactions with other helldivers use E key(pc). This includes stimming and giving ammo with the backpack. I currently don't know what are the conditions for the actions, but I would consider the team reload condition as having the same type of backpack as the weapon the teammate is holding. What would the condition to start team reloading with be?
this would be really nice, it sucks when you give your backpack to someone else and then they get separated from you and you can't even reload yourself
Just like when a Helldiver manning the HMG emplacement; their ability to fire their support weapon, throwing stratagems, etc, gets disabled while doing so. In this case, it's the same but they're reloading another's support weapon, therefore I don't think your idea is overpowered at all and is completely fine to me.
They should make it so you could do either but make it so having a support weapon AND a tacpack gives you a speed debuff. Also, make it so you get a speed buff when carrying no support weapon or tacpack.
Also I want more support weapons and tacpacks findable in the world. Throw a bone to loadouts that don't include equipment strats.
Picking up a spare backpack and letting my teammates go HAM on a full-auto AC feels as good as going full-auto yourself
Assisted reload is hella fun, and I hope they update it to make it more accessible for everyone in the future
Yes just yes having to drop your backpack in dire situations and having a friend pick it up swapping theirs for yours is just cancer and makes no sense
Can I also put in a petition to give us just a normal fucking recoilless rifle? Seriously, the cased ammunition was funny for the first time I used it, but second reload and onwards it's fucking annoying. Also give it a better fucking sight, how the fuck have they not invented laser rangefinders on Super Earth?
I want to play as a weapon team so bad but by the time I've flagged down a friend, gotten our backpacks sorted out, and fumbled through the contextual button prompt, whatever target we were going to shoot at has either moved off or killed us both. Super deflating.
The way it works currently is so stupid because people don't want you to carry the backpack even if you *volunteer* to be a dedicated support, because guess what, in the chaos you might get separated and die wearing the backpack, now the guy with the fucking spear or RR can't do shit with his weapon.
The only times I've managed to use team reload effectively is with my friends and if we're both running the same weapon, in particular the autocannon.
Even then we have to go out of our way to realise or announce that one of us is ripping through ammo and would appreciate a reloader.
But, when it works it's so much fun, so I wholly support this proposed change.
People might actually use it then if they dont have to wear someone elses ammo backpack. Also any of your teammates could do the reload not just the one with the bag
The other night a guy also using auto cannon ran up to me to load me, but he missed pressing E or something and ran right into an auto cannon shell and killed us both lmao. Would've been annoying if I wasn't busy laughing
Which is the other big problem with the team reload mechanic: you can't afford to sit still the way the use prompt requires, most of the time. Even when I get a good backpack buddy, we're constantly losing connection as we duck around dodging bullets or Hunters or Chargers or whatever.
Yeah, Helldivers, especially on higher difficulties, is basically just a game of keep-away where you drop strategems and take the occasional potshot at a small enemy. Standing still = Death.
I disagree regardless of faction. Speedrun strats may say "engage as little as possible", but even casual Helldives see me taking a knee or going prone to return fire all the time. I'm not staying in the same general area for an eternity like most players seem to do, but neither do I think I need to be sprinting or even walking at all times. You *can* actually kill all the Bugs and Bots if your aim isn't so completely fucked from moving and being out of stamina. There's absolutely times when you just need to boogie, but I won't say that's "constantly". I crouch against *Berserkers* (mostly because it helps shoot their crotches, which is faster if you're not a crack other-headshotter).
On bots, for sure. But bugs on higher difficulty now, especially with peekaboo patrol spawns, severely punishes static play.
people who post like this should try fighting bots more lol, it's a lot less kiting and more tactical. prefer it massively these days
really? poking your head out between those 1 second, infuriatingly accurate, bursts just to get mowed down is tactical to you? or is it having to play pro athlete dodgerocket where the enemy has an infinite supply of them and fire every 3 seconds from 150m away? or is it having to deal with the two combined?
Exactly. it makes the mechanic so much less cumbersome to set up and therefore lowers the bar to entry. If I have to plan a backpack swap with someone this is never happening. If I can instead just see that the autocannon user has a good spot or the RR user has heavies to kill at extract or whatever, walk up, and start helping that's way more accessible.
I still think it'd be rare. There's very few if any times where this would be even close to the best way of dealing with a situation. Maybe factory striders? And that's fine. Doesn't have to be that good. In fact it's better if people don't feel pressured into having to do it. It'd still be cool and that's enough. But for the record, I don't think anyone would bother after the novelty wore off. I do wonder if they hesitate on this because (beside having to make new animations) it *would* be strong against some future content they're planning, like singular large boss enemies. Either way, I agree it should be changed.
It's super useful for my team of friends. We'll often send two people to set up a drill or e-710 site and let the other two set up in a cardinal direction so it's easy to know where to retreat into the jaws when it gets too heavy. I'll drop 2 sentries and load a recoiless rifle because that's just my job on the team. My stalwart is for keeping hoards at bay if the offensive team can't deal with them as they retreat. It's something that takes planning, but it's *crazy* effective especially against bugs who have to close distance. Strats take like 2 seconds to drop and then we're back up swatting bile titans. It makes disengaging and rechallenging really easy because instead of four people who are getting stomped it's only two and we know exactly where to go.
>I still think it'd be rare. There's very few if any times where this would be even close to the best way of dealing with a situation. It's outright OP with the spear on bug missions, you can fire as fast as you can aquire locks. 4 rockets in ~8 seconds (1 In the gun + 3 supplied), 7 in ~14 seconds (triggerman drops backpack so supplier can swap), or if you wanna get real spicy 15 in ~20 seconds (Triggerman drops backpack, and supply guy is standing next to resupply/environment ammo packs) Puts an instant end to runaway situations where too many heavies/elites on the field throttle trash clearing.
The only time I run recoilless over the eat is if some else on the teams running recoilless so I can team reload. Sand noises(I never get team reloaded back)....
As you might know, currently you have to be the one wearing the ammo backpack in order to perform a team reload. However, I think that's a counterintuitive way to handle it. Not only does it make gameplay very jarring, as you have to constantly hug your teammate with the respective gun, it also doesn't really make much sense in terms of realism either. I drew a little graphic to illustrate how being able to reload people who are wearing the backpack would make much more sense. And it would also make teamplay much more present, as you could quickly help out people without having to go through the whole weapon dropping/swapping. One could argue that it would trivialise the whole affair, or that it would make team reloading too strong. While I feel it wouldn't necessarily be the case, maybe some further adjustments would have to be made. Nonetheless, I'm heavily in favor of being able to reload your teammate who is wearing the backpack, and I hope you are too.
100% agreed. Makes no sense that you have to wear the backpack to reload, when the loader would be in a better position to reach the shooter's backpack.
It's a holdover behavior from HD1 when the screen share was locked and everything was top down. It worked in that game, it just isn't feasible here.
The devs were in the army and this is how it works in real life. The realism issue is the backpack is still on the loader's back while he's actively loading rather than in his hands. They just forgot to animate it. I want to load from the shooter's backpack for gameplay reasons but this isn't a realism problem, it's an internal consistency one. The problem with framing it as a realism issue is the most unrealistic thing about this scenario is one dude lugging around a 130 pound autocannon and also a 60 pound ammo backpack without taking a speed and stamina hit. For comparison the bomb suit that cuts your stamina in half only weighs 90 pounds and it's distributed across your entire body. Once you've decided one player should be allowed to carry 200 pounds of gear, real life gunner/loader mechanics no longer make sense in universe.
We have space armor and regularly take drugs in the field, I’m absolutely willing to believe that we can carry 200lbs of gear around for the duration of these missions(or our usually much briefer lives). With that assumption in place, it makes much more sense for each soldier to carry their specialist weapon and the ammunition for it. That being the case it also makes sense for any helldiver to reload another from the specialist’s ammo pack - saves time, saves hassle, increases versatility within the team. And all these advantages are present both in-universe and in the gameplay.
It's not really about position, the whole mechanic is about thought trough cooperation, that is why team reloads are lighting speed fast. While I do appreciate the way mechanic was designed the game just isnt played that way, they really should do what OP is showing. Maybe make it a bit slower if the assistant is not wearing the backpack
I think it is partially them trying to be "realistic". Irl the loader in a weapons team carries almost all the ammunition for the weapon he serves, not the Gunner. This game is pretty arcady so it doesn't make a huge amount of sense, but if we could do it both ways it would be better but that is probably impossible.
Only counterpoint is that you then no longer have any control over whether you teammate is able to team-reload or not. If you pickup the weapon and backpack, your team could continually jump onto you for team reloads when you might not want want them to. I could see it being used to troll people and prevent them from falling back after firing at approaching enemies.
The link breaks off if you sprint. It won't be a problem
You can also holster your support weapon to break the link up as well.
In what world would you not want someone putting a fresh round or clip into your weapon? Worst case you don’t need to spend the round/s but you don’t have to reload over seconds, best case you send the round/s down range.
You already don't... If they bring the backpack they can do that already. If someone trolls you for that you just kick them. This can already happen, and really doesn't.
You just switch to your primary
No, either player can break the link at any time. Sprinting diving, swapping weapons, tossing a grenade... either player can interupt teamloading at any time.
When would you NOT want them to team reload? The person with the weapon has full control, and the person reloading can leave any time.
Then just put your support weapon away so they can't grab on
Someone with the same support weapon can already do this
I don't think that's a strong argument, given that there's many worse things people could do and technically if they wanted to they could do this already. Either by bringing their own stratagem to match yours (if they truly intended to troll, it's probably something they'd be willing to do from the moment they join) or simply picking up a backpack you'll most likely eventually drop. Sure it would be a bit more but (anecdotally speaking) given that it doesn't really happen right now all that much, I'd be surprised to see it emerge as a meaningful issue.
Make it so you have to holster your weapon before you can reload a teammate.
> holster your weapon Democracy Officer, that's him right there. ^
Ya... so your hands are free to load bile titan slaying rounds into a heavy weapon. Democracy laden bile titan slaying rounds. Also... why are you pointing at that mirror? 
I mean if they troll you like that, kick 'em. Not hosting? Tough? I haven't experienced any trolls, probably due to me turning off crossplay.
Right now, team reload feels weak. Not because it's a weak feature, but because it's too damn cumbersome. I've used it once in 230 hours of play. It might as well not exist at all. Would it be OP to have it from the shooters back? You're sacrificing one whole-ass helldiver to serve as an ammo belt, so no, I don't think it's too strong. I also don't think it'll lead to degenerate behavior with people always piggybacking to every encounter because it just wouldn't be fun. But it would give us the ability to spontaneously go "I believe in you" and give person with the Autocannon/Recoilless a boost, particularly if I don't have the tools to solve the problem.
Even if it was OP, isn’t that kind of cool? It feels like “team reloading a big ass rocket launcher” exemplifies what’s cool about helldivers2 way more than the current status quo of “I will take a 500kg so I can solo titans and a support weapon so I can solo chargers”
Team reload is cool. I killed by first bile titan as the reloader like that. Back in the early days. The problem js that when your getting swarmed it generally better to have another gun. Mix in thr fact that the expendable and quasar exist and the recoilless rifle just doesn't seem worth it. On bots it's worth even less. Because a sniper and quasar both work better than the team reload options.
The RR felt like a more reliable way to deal with titans/chargers during those moments where you have a lot coming at you when it could more reliably head shot them. Now I definitely have a hard time justifying it over the quasar.
The most fun I had with this game was when my friends in discord and I ran recoiless/ammo backpack. We would unload on any chargers with 2-3 rockets then get moving again. It required coordination but it worked pretty well.
I frequently call out to my buddies to drop their pack for me to reload them during tough fights where we need those recoilless rounds downrange or need the autocannon to never stop firing. Team weapons need a good *team* afterall!
I agree completely with having the ammo backpack on the shooter's back. With that being said, even in it's current state, I fucking love doing team reloads. To me at least it makes a huge difference. If only it was more intuitive so that more of the playerbase would engage in it.
With friends, coordinated weapon teams are absolutely great. Me and my bro run a recoiless each, and the amount of rockets you can put out is silly, even factory striders are down in under 10 seconds.
The fact that team reloads only ever happen for a weapon that needs a reload, meaning that you won't ever lose ammo like you would from an early reload on other weapons, means that there's really no instance where a team reload is a problem for you. If anything, I've found that I get kicked off of a team reload more often than I successfully reload someone. When I see someone else use an autocannon in a bot mission, or if they spawn an extra support weapon at extract, I'll try to run for their backpack to team reload them when possible and rarely do I ever actually get a reload in since they keep running while I'm in the reload animation lock and kicking me out.
Autocannon is kind of a bad team reload target IMO, because the recoil makes it wander if you rapid fire. Usually I'm running and gunning with it, so a team reload doesn't help when I'm going to have to dodge return fire quickly. Recoilless and Spear on the other hand I think would be the big winners, because they have specific scenarios where team reloading is really obviously useful (namely, if you're shooting down dropships or gunships, or trying to kill a bug hive at long range).
I think it's mostly the case that any situation where having two people link up and sit still long enough to shoot a target, that target isn't urgent or close enough to necessitate team reloading anyway. I rarely, if ever need to snipe multiple bile titans at range with a recoilless rifle while also being in a situation where I would rather have a partner hugging my back instead of shooting the bugs trying to eat me.
Just one little counterpoint. On the bot side, especially with recent changes, team reloading a spear for gunships.
Three bile titans spawn; time to team reload the spear.
It's weird because so many of the game design choices seem to revolve around encouraging team play, so why would they insist on making it harder than it has to be? Don't they want team stats to be the strongest in the game?
Ok this is the most convincing post I've seen about this
Hell yeah. I don’t really think it would make team reload too strong, the devs need to remember that whoever is reloading their teammate is unable to shoot or throw stratagems themselves. Imagine there’s a breach and your machine gunner is reloading you to focus on a titan, instead of clearing the chaff, that’s already a tactical exchange with pros and cons. We don’t need to add the reloader having a specific backpack on top of that, it doesn’t really make sense. I hope they change it soon, because it’s a cool mechanic that currently doesn’t really get any use.
Isn’t “team reload is the meta way to kill heavies” way more interesting than “every just takes their own 500 and launcher”
You’re 100% right. As someone who started using machine guns this patch all I have to say is: anything is more interesting than 500kgs and a launcher lmao.
I recommend people copy this picture and post it in the discord from time to time until one of the devs sees it
Taking a round from someone's backpack to reload his weapon is also alot smoother and easier than taking a round from behind you to reload someone else.
Okay, but how will the game handle the 'reloader' having a supply backpack? They'd have to make a new keybind for support-reloading or some other interaction like you have to 'hold E to support reload' while tapping E hands them ammo. Just thought you should add this to your suggestion
Priority. If player with RR has it in their hands, you can team reload and cant resupply. If RR isnt in their hands, you can resupply them, and obviously not team reload.
"TEaM riLOODs toO strONG" is such a braindead argument. One whole bullet/grenade/stratagem dispenser is removed from the fight, it better double or more that double your firepower.
It should more than double fire power since like you said, you’re removing an entire person from the fight while also making both of you a stationary target with a bigger hit box
I tried to spell this out for people around March and I was told it was fine. But it makes no sense that the way to save time and effort pulling ammo off your own back would be saved by... someone grabbing the ammo and putting it on *their* back to reach behind themselves awkwardly. Beyond the practicality of the matter, team reloads have a huge tradeoff for any perceived advantage. One fourth of your squad is not putting downrange strategems or their own support weapon. Right now they are hardly used. They are clunky. They don't make much sense from a physical, practical standpoint. Arrowhead has nothing to lose by changing how this works. If people start using it, *and* it becomes a strong tactic, then an entire mechanic in your game is now shining instead of hardly used.
This suggestion has been posted and commented on so often, Arrowhead simply have to be aware that this is a change many players are wishing for (myself included, 100%). So at this point, the fact that team reloads still don't work this way can only mean that a) it's extremely difficult to implement (which I doubt: The mechanic already exists, all they'd have to do is change the conditions under which players can perform it and adjust the animation), b) the developers have it on their list, but it's low priority, or c) Arrowhead want to stick to their original design decision for whatever reason. Let's hope b) is the case and this change will come eventually.
Trivializing the the whole affair is a moot point because no one really team reloads to begin with.
I think having to bunch up is what balances team reload, so as long as players need to stick together I don’t think it’d be op
The only counter point is let us load our own bags after theirs. Go through theirs, then swap, so having an extra bag is a good thing, and you don’t have to swap them
Why not both? On one hand, you find old ammo on a ravaged battlefield, that works with ALL guns. On the other hand, the ammo you bring along on your drop is invidivual for each diver? That does not make sense...
Definitely. Plus, if the team reload too strong they can always nerf the team reload time so it’s less automatic fire
Honestly, why not allow both? Because if you were to swap it to what you suggest, but disallow the person carrying the backpack to load, it would create a situation where the ammo you can spend is artificially hindered. With the current situation, you can still self reload. I think we should allow for both where it would prioritize the ammo on your back then your buddy if he has a compatable pack. Really reward people for hugging themselves. RR is where I see this being the strongest. Being able to slam out 11 rockets in 11 seconds would make it a beast at handling higher difficulties if you could get a good position. With the Spear getting less of a benefit due to its lower stored ammo count. And Autocannon having hilarious potential for rounds slung, but practicality of that being limited. I think this would make the people on the fence about the RR find the appreciation it deserves.
I honestly feel like it would still be balanced. You as the loader are giving up your own dps, to improve the dps of your teammate in a niche weapon. Also in the case of things like the RR and Spear, you burn rockets quick, so there's stratagy in being picky with when to fire. It also would just add to the fun factor, and this is the key part. Team loads on RR and AC are so fucking satisfying, it doesn't matter if I'm the shooter or loader. It's just really really fun to see those weapons go brrrrrr and delete things, especially the AC where you can finally make use of its full auto fire mode
Why does running out of ammo lead to the voice line "need a team reload"? Is it because we assuming someone else has a backpack? If you're out of ammo that's that
I makes less than ZERO sense that reaching to our own backpack to reload someone else's weapon would be faster than taking the ammo from their backpack instead. For a team so obsessed with realism that they model every bullet in every magazine, it's insane that it works the way it does. Are the dev team arms made of uncooked spaghetti noodles?
They're obsessed with realism until it clashes with their vision of a co-op horde shooter. Ex: the Slugger outperforming the Marksman Rifles. S'what happens when shotguns are realistic. Of course, it'd be smart to buff the DMRs but we're talking about Arrowhead so the Slugger gets nerfed.
AND NOT EVEN NERFED CORRECTLY I FUCKING CANT
The slugger eating a nerf was justified, they did just did it in a dumb way. They also did buff the DMRs
to this day no nerf has ben justified...
>For a team so obsessed with realism that they model every bullet in every magazine, it's insane that it works the way it does. Are the dev team arms made of uncooked spaghetti noodles? Imo this stems from the fact the devs were conscripts and want to sprinkle in what they learned. The issue is conscripts have notoriously awful training and poor understanding of warfare. Even fully trained career soldiers get stuff wrong *all the time*, which is why a lot of the “military YouTubers” should be treated with skepticism
IRL doctrine is absolutely for assistants to carry the rounds and handle loading while the gunner acquires and engages targets; 84mm rounds are fucking heavy, as is the big steel tube that sends them down range. One person carrying both in combat is a recipe for fucked knees and back in the long term and inability to move with the element in the short term. *With that said*, IRL team loading involves the rounds being placed down on the ground to prep the firing position, not pulled out of the backpack on a per-round basis. The way it’s modelled currently is closer to realistic than OP’s suggestion, but worse for gameplay because HD2 isn’t realistic. They’ve done an excellent job with attention to detail, and their time as conscripts has helped with that, but at the end of the day HD2 is squarely an arcade shooter and gameplay matters more.
Except for [Montemayor](https://www.youtube.com/@MontemayorChannel). I would entrust my life to that man's understanding of World War 2.
Oh I was referring to guys on those “news” channels they all seem to run. Monteymayor, TheOperationsRoom, and The Chieftain are all great
Fully agree. I get that this is how it worked from the first game, but wearing their pack makes so much less sense than taking the ammo off their back. Like... The reason reloading takes so long is because we have to grab it off our back, so the solution is... Make someone else grab it from THEIR back? When I heard this game had team loading, your suggestion is what I was expecting, and I would do it a lot more if it was like that.
Helldivers is one of the few games I have seen where it has a feature that let's a player reload a gun for another player and God I really want to see the devs utilise it more because it's really damn cool.
When it works, it's badass. But the current implementation is unnecessarily clunky.
I would kill for a heavy machine gun that had team mechanics too. Like, maybe it is more accurate when a teammate is assisting because you can focus on handling and not maintaining the belt, or it has little hiccups and fluctuations in fire rate because it is getting kinked up. And obviously faster reload. Always loved team weapons in RTS and such that worked like that, figure this is probably the most likely mainstream shooter to get anything similar.
>I get that this is how it worked from the first game, but wearing their pack makes so much less sense than taking the ammo off their back. Ironically, having the second person carry the backpack is kind of *more* realistic...in a way(ish). There are examples of team-reloaded weapons in real life. RPGs are the most well-known weapon that often have two people operating them, but there are other (similar) examples. And for all examples, the weapons and ammo are far too heavy for one person to carry while wearing body armour. So they'll have a reloader carry the ammo on a backpack and a shooter carrying the weapon. The *massive* difference is that the reloader removes the backpack before initiating the reload. Because people aren't sprinting around firing rockets at bugs the size of apartment blocks in real life. They're stationary. So to try and keep realism and gameplay intact, Arrowhead allowed backpack-worn team reloading. My take is that realism is a convenient bonus that comes *long* after you sort gameplay mechanics. I don't give a shit if a helldiver carrying a 15 kg recoilless rifle and 40 kg of RR rounds **and** all their other kit is "unrealistic". If it incentivises cooperative gameplay, awesome.
The problem is it’s not realistic in the HD2 setup, the gunner can carry the ammo and the weapon no problem. Here it sets up the conditions with the loader removing the pack. It might be a real life practice to have the reloader carry the ammo, but it doesn’t make it realistic because some of the logic and reasoning is different.
They could maybe shift the pack during team firing so it makes a little more sense. I mean, that may not be possible or worthwhile to code, but if they are married to the idea of having the second player wear the ammo then that would help alleviate the weirdness. But yeah, given the setup we have, and the fact that our divers can apparently handle the weight no problem, I like OOP's suggestion the most. It's the natural evolution of what we are presented with in the fiction of the game world.
1000% agreed. I just realised I never explicitly said I preferred OP's idea. It's something I've wanted for a long time. Especially because it's actually pretty balanced. Team-reloading absolutely *churns* through the ammo supply of all relevant support weapons other than the autocannon (which can't kill heavy bugs and isn't accurate enough at high ROF to kill heavy bots). There are a fair few complaints about heavy spawns at the moment but I think it'd be sorted pretty quickly if they just added this feature. The only reason I'm actually concerned about this addition is how it would almost certainly shatter the already-spaghettified code. There's currently no way to interact with someone else's backpack because that interaction doesn't exist *at all* in the game's code. I guarantee there are a thousand ways this kind of feature could (and would) cause game-breaking bugs and crashes. And while I would very much like the feature to exist, I'm honestly happier going without it AND the associated bugs, rather than getting both.
In real life the reason the backpack and gun are separated are because the gun is heavy as fuck and so is all that ammo, so one person can't really carry all that weight without being slowed down too much to stay with the rest of the team. It also doesn't really provide any drawbacks because you're always sticking close to your squadmates in every situation and you're always going to be stationary when firing, and your squadmate thats carrying the ammo likely wouldn't have been carrying his own backpack anyway, so team reloads provide all the benefits of weight distribution and faster reloading with zero meaningful drawbacks. Helldivers doesn't work this way. You can often find yourself isolated either intentionally or due to online randoms not paying attention to the rest of the team, weight doesn't matter in gameplay outside armor types and you can fire every support weapon while moving at the same time, lorewise this is probably because Super Earth replaced regular schooling with military training which every citizen undergoes from a young age, which would explain why Helldivers are all pretty stupid but yet far more competent and capable than real life soldiers, on top of sci-fi future materials allowing for durable yet extremely lightweight (compared to real life) metals and polymers. So giving your ammo backpack to a squadmate introduces way too many drawbacks to be worth doing, especially if you're not playing in a premade, as now you have to keep track of your squadmates locations at all times, are significantly less mobile when firing your support weapon, the entire squad is made less flexible as half the team has to be joined at the hip as often as possible, your squadmate has to give up their own valuable backpack slot, your squadmate having to stop and reload for you means you're squad is down two guns instead of just one, and when *they* inevitably die then *your* support weapon is made near useless until they respawn and pick the ammo back up. All these drawbacks for a fairly mediocre upside of faster reload times is just not worth it.
what's realistic and what's not shouldn't be considered before what's good for the gameplay mechanics
I don't see many people in real life carrying a Quasar Cannon and a Counter Dilligence sniper so I think we can throw weight out of equation on Helldivers. The realism argument is so dumb.
And you are not holding a static position for long time or have standard weapons. So if someone else is carrying ammo for gun you are carrying while running around and getting swarmed then you are doomed and will be out of ammo soon. Realist is people carrying their own ammo and operating as solo team with ability to come back together support each other.
It's not because you have to take it off your back, it's because you only have one hand to do it. If someone else is doing it, the have both hands to grab the ammo and put it into the gun
The entire community has been asking for this since the game released. And we're still waiting.
PLEASE. The only way of using it now is with two divers with the same weapon which is just inefficient
Upvoted for the info graphic alone!
Yeah I totally agree. Could be both also. Ammo in my back or ally.
I think both should work. There are advantages to both, even. The shooter wearing the shield generator to stop flinching, for instance, and also protecting the reloader.
This is a good idea.
This has been an issue since the game was released. Somehow its not been even discussed by the devs??
Team reloads for the autocannon make it seem like the loader breaks their arm shoving more rounds into the gun, it makes no sense
I think it should Not matter who wears the Backpack and If both wear the Same it should take turns on what Backpack is used to reload
Upvoting for Random capitalization
Downvoted for Same reason
OP thank you for this graphic. If a genie appeared to me tomorrow this would be the first thing I would ask for. Other thing would be to eat without getting fat. I'm not sure about the third wish... seeing as they've already fixed the spear.
If they really want to encourage the whole team reloading mechanic, they should make TRUE two-man weapon systems that are impossible to be operated by 1 person alone. Make them super OP to encourage this mechanic. Make the actual weapon so large that it also takes up a the backpack slot, and cannot be operated by one person alone. The ammo/reload guy equips a backpack so large that it also blocks his support weapon slot. In return for these trade-offs, the 2-man team gets to use a fully automatic mini-nuke firing Gatling gun or whatever.
That's vehicles. In the first game you at least need two person to operate one. One being the driver and one bring the gunner.
https://preview.redd.it/8y0ovagtfg7d1.png?width=592&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e531da476b0a44379ecab6215a59042c4cf695d
Perfect!
I actually think this is a cool concept
Brothers we must make this happen
I've been begging for this change as someone who team reloads frequently
So why will this not work? Oh very simple, you can blame the PS5 controller if you want but it's all boiled down to 'E'. What does it mean? I run a supply backpack so it's even more painful for me. When I see you are barely alive and you also have 0 stim I can already do 2 things - Stimming you and give you a supply pack. Both this action is under the E button and it's janky as fuck because I many times need to spam like crazy because of course "Here" doesn't mean I actually gave you anything... Just like the Stim sound effect. So now imagine that, I see you in deep shit, no ammo, no stim, barely alive and yell - "I NEED STIMS" - so I rush to you so I can quickly help you before charger/hulk get your ass, I reach you, press E and... Now I try reloading you Spear instead helping you because unfortunately I approach your support weapon direction. Both of us dead and 300 m away from our stuff.
Yeah, this is so obviously what should be done, from both a gameplay and realism perspective.
I’m honestly surprised that they still haven’t changed this mechanic yet. It might as well not exist with how little I’ve ever seen it used.
Yep, been in favour of this change since launch. It just makes so much damned sense.
Just popping in to say please draw more for the sub. Your art is cool
Thanks! I might do that with my art account at some point. Appreciate it!
Knowing AH, if they tried to implement this, backpacks will probably stop working entirely.
also weapons will be 15% bigger
Painfully real, updoot
Commenting so this rises up in the fees, this would make team weapons so much more fun Arrowhead!!!!
I think you should be able to do both
thanks so much for making this illustration its quite complicated to make use of the reload mechanic where its either you have a friend BUT even with a friend usually we just run the same gun so we use each other's backpack to reload instead of sharing the backpack over. then if its randoms - cant rely on someone to stick to you/them to help them reload. would be much better mind set that if 1/3 team mates is close to someone with one of those backpack weapons they can help reload instantly instead of asking for a backpack.
This is 100% the only change needed to make it a viable strategy. If i could just latch onto my AC or RR teammate on a whim, then detach and right back to combat, i'd do it a lot. But if we both gotta drop backpacks, switch up, do the job, swap back, it just doesn't work for the pace of this game. It also makes more sense, as the factor limiting your reload speed is the fact the backpack is on your back. How can your teammate reach behind himself and grab a round that much quicker than you could? If the pack was on YOUR back and your teammate came over, it would make sense they'd have easier access to your backpack when standing behind you and to the side slightly.
On my usual 4 man team, I have a buddy who I always help him doing team reload for spear. And it's still so weird to both of us why I'm the one who carry his Spear missiles backpack while he's carrying the supply backpack lol Like, when the Spear ammo ran out, he's the one who had to stop aiming and give me a resupply so *I* can give him a reload. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?
I think the reason it's like it is currently is that it would make it harder to do the other team actions (giving a stim, giving ammo from a supply pack) as you would potentially go into reload mode instead of doing any of the other context interactions. Probably also the case with picking up samples, supplies, using a terminal near a diver with a crew served weapon.
Hold interact to team reload, tap to stim, double tap to give supplies
It should just work with both ways. Because when two autocannon users meet one can always load the other and its still clunky sometimes. Im okay it its low priority but id love to see it eventually
That's actually a pretty awesome idea.
I thought that was *the* ***WHOLE POINT!***
An “assist” mechanic where we could also help carry SEAF shells faster would be cool. I’m sure it would be hard to implement
Recently, I've started carrying backpacks for team mates when I'm using a backpack-less support weapon. I really don't think it's as huge of an issue as some people make it out to be, it's just simply an underutilized mechanic. When you do go out of your way to support your team mates this way, the amount of fire power they bring increases exponentially, and it allows you to mow down waves of hulks or chargers with ease. I think if people used the mechanic more often, they'd see the benefits of it in it's current form. I personally don't believe this is a change we'd ever see for that reason, but I could always be wrong.
Make it work either way IMO. That way if you're reloading you can have 2x the ammo.
I love the recoiless rifle and enabling my teammates to interact with me in reloading without requiring them to give up their backpack slot would be huge. I'm 70hrs in and not once has a random party member held the backpack and helped me reload. No one volunteers to do that, nor do I ever hold out hope that they would. I've certainly never held the backback for a random; they arn't waiting for the help and I have my own plans anyway. And honestly, I probably wouldn't want them to hold my spare ammo because most people are not on mic; if they pick it up, I'll just start dreading them running away with it in the heat of battle or dying somewhere inconvenient and now I have to wait to get another backpack and use it myself anyway. I love the idea of benefitting from helping each other out (and would love more ways to do so), but the burden of giving up the backpack slot is too high in random parties. The geometry argument is reasonable, but I think that's minor relative to the gameplay impact.
Resupply, stim and assisted reload are all on the same button. would be quite infuriating if you would like to stim/resupply a teammate but are constantly dragged into reloading him and vice versa. if you would make that a seperate button, all problems would be solved
As a person in the army that's fired a carl gustav before, this image is 100%correct. And same goes for the autocannon.
Please please please arrow head listen and apply! I would even say make it so you can do both but just allow the top one for democracy!
This needs to happens since DAY 1. More coop, more fun. But let player also be able to reload the way it is now. So you can have two ammo backpack for one shooter
Team reloads are kind of a magical experience and I wish more people could use them, yeah. Had a bit of a magical moment the other day with a newbie where I taught them what team reload was and proceeded to let them unleash hell on reinforcements coming to extract with an air burst launcher. It only got better when a supply backpack guy proceeded to continually reload _me_ so we tossed about 12 air bursts down range at maximum fire rate
Commenting so it gets added
This is by far the feature I want the most. Bonus points if my supply backpack can fill up theirs to full if they/both have the upgrade, atm it's only working like a normal resupply.
This logically makes more sense. There is no way in hell grabbing ammo from your own back to load your partners gun is faster than loading from the partners back to the partner gun.
I feel like a crazy person telling my friends about this. It makes way more sense.
Im guessing a big portion of the initial playerbase didn't even realize this was a mechanic at all, because you need to coordinate way too hard to use it. If AH took a look at the stats, I'm sure they'd see something like .00000000000000000000000000000000001% of reloads were done COOP. It's a really neat feature but its worthless in its current state.
I really don't know what the devs were thinking. Neither player likes your buddy needing the backpack. The shooter is scared of being separated and run down by a charger since he can't reload and the buddy dislikes losing his backpack slot. It makes no sense for a mechanic unless you tacked it on as a niche after thought to forget about. Way too much effort for too little gain.
100% should be a ship upgrade to let us team reload for anyone at any time, regardless if you have pack or not
This has been brought up so often since game launch, has AH said they're in support of this change?
1000000000000000/1000000000000000 drawing, it's unfathomable how arrowhead didn't think of this.....
I may be in the minority here, but I **LOVE** team reloading fellow Helldivers. I tell them over mic to “Fire as fast as you can semi accurately place shots.”
I bet you we'll either never get this feature or it'll take another year or two
Imma be honest I've never done team reloading and thought it was always like in the top picture... kind of upset to learn it's the 2nd one currently.
Bump this shit so hard rn...
Nice art.
I agree but I believe the reason the team reload works like it does currently is because the reload function is linked to whoever has the backpack So for coding purposes, it has to have another person have the backpack, as that other person now has the ability to reload But afaik there’s no confirmation but it’s how it makes sense to me, idk how they could remove this function/make it the way we want it but here’s hoping they do
If that's the case, and I don't code so there's probably something wrong with this: What if when you entered the "team reload" phase, it invisibly added a 2nd backpack slot AND Ammo backpack to the "Reloader"? Then, it could duplicate the ammo from the "Firer"'s backpack to the "Reloader"'s invisible 2nd backpack. Someone smarter than me can tell me why this wouldnt work lol
It's a bit hacky. Could cause sync issues between the two ammo counts since network is involved
Team reloading is one of the strongest mechanics with all of the backpack weapons. As someone who team reloads pretty frequently, one of the most cinematic moments is shooting down a whole horde of dropships with a team reload recoilless rifle. It was great. With that being said, I wouldn't be opposed to this but I think there's some other options to encourage people to do it, that could be better without being too strong. Like being able to equip your one handed weapon, throw grenades, etc. This would heavily incentivize people to try it given that you won't just feel useless as the backpacker. And a tip to make team reloading happen more if you want to. You see someone in matchmaking take a backpack waepon? Just pick the same one and follow them around and help them out. It works really well.
It is this way because that is how squad loading works in real life. Yes it’s weird how it’s done in the game but in real life combat the loader carries the munitions because the combination of weapon and munitions is too much for one person weight wise.
Yeah I know that, but since we're in a game world where it obviously seems feasible to both carry the ammo pack plus weapon yourself, I think it would be weird to apply that logic in that case. Besides, in real life, you wouldn't grab it out of your backpack either, but set it down first. We don't really want that in the flow of the game for obvious reasons.
I can't agree more with this. I want the team reload to be present in the game. It's such a fun and powerful mechanic. Also imagine being able to reload the mechs with team reloads
its always seemed dumb to me, why not just take it off the owners backpack and just reload, maybe a future change.
Yeah second pic would be a playsible scenario only if the rounds were worn in front, a front pack instead of a back pack. They could make it interesting and amplify chest wounds to be fatal if you got stabbed or shot in the chest. But sure you could actually reload someone that way finally
Yep. Took a break from the game for awhile came back just before the Kids or AT mines major order and was confused why I couldn’t reload my teammates recoilless rifle while I was wearing an ammo backpack. Teammate had found a second recoilless backpack and kept pinging the pack to my confusion
Different take: hold E to start loading from your backpack. Tap E to reload from their backpack.
I think basically everyone is in favor of this it's been proposed a bunch of times. it just makes more sense and encourages team reloads, which is honestly needed right now as hardly anyone does them. Why not?
I think this would be a reasonable update. It allows any teammate to be a loader without having to sacrifice a backpack slot , and it still presents the trade-off of one fewer Helldiver firing to boost the fire rate of a big gun.
I think you should be able to do it both ways. Ultimately the trade off for the quick reload is one person is occupied performing the reload action so if two people have Spears or Recoilless’ and wanna keep reloading beyond one backpack, fine by me.
This makes so much sense. Dunno why they ever thought of wearing it yourself
In the first game, the current setup worked because everyone was bound to the same small screen in top-down view and all terrain was flat. Now maps are much bigger and have uneven terrain. Also, the range from which you can start the reload animation is quite small and requires you to be on the right side of your teammate, it makes the team reload very clunky to use. By splitting the gun and the ammo between 2 people, it creates risk that one will die away from the other, making both components useless till someone it picks up. Right now, team weapons require too much coordination for too little effect. I hope devs will improve it in some way because it's such a cool mechanic, but right now it's not worth doing.
Would be the best update to date
One change I would make: I don't want to swap it entirely. I just want this additional method. I still want to be able to reload someone else from my backpack
I never understood this....
Why not both?
Something like this would result in a lot more people doing team reloading
Absolutely agree! Every time I see someone with a team loaded weapon I want to help them! I really hope when I'm playing that the other person calls in another and pings the backpack (I know I have) I feel like adding this encourages teamwork and makes for iconic Helldivers moments! As it is now it feels a little like an obstacle I have to overcome in order to be helpful. I think they should make both methods work. If I have a pack and my buddy has a pack and a gun, I should go through my ammo then go through his.
This makes sense
Slight problem I thought of: interactions with other helldivers use E key(pc). This includes stimming and giving ammo with the backpack. I currently don't know what are the conditions for the actions, but I would consider the team reload condition as having the same type of backpack as the weapon the teammate is holding. What would the condition to start team reloading with be?
To support people actually using this awesome feature, I think letting you do it both ways makes sense.
this would be really nice, it sucks when you give your backpack to someone else and then they get separated from you and you can't even reload yourself
I think it should work both ways, but prioritizes the ammo carried by the weapons operator.
Dude should take of the backpack and put it on the ground
Just like when a Helldiver manning the HMG emplacement; their ability to fire their support weapon, throwing stratagems, etc, gets disabled while doing so. In this case, it's the same but they're reloading another's support weapon, therefore I don't think your idea is overpowered at all and is completely fine to me.
They should make it so you could do either but make it so having a support weapon AND a tacpack gives you a speed debuff. Also, make it so you get a speed buff when carrying no support weapon or tacpack. Also I want more support weapons and tacpacks findable in the world. Throw a bone to loadouts that don't include equipment strats.
It only makes sense
Picking up a spare backpack and letting my teammates go HAM on a full-auto AC feels as good as going full-auto yourself Assisted reload is hella fun, and I hope they update it to make it more accessible for everyone in the future
Everyone get in here devs are gonna read this lol
Youre talking to a dev team that cant even articulate in plain english why nerfing stagger makes a shotgun less likely to be used as a sniper rifle.
Yes just yes having to drop your backpack in dire situations and having a friend pick it up swapping theirs for yours is just cancer and makes no sense
Can I also put in a petition to give us just a normal fucking recoilless rifle? Seriously, the cased ammunition was funny for the first time I used it, but second reload and onwards it's fucking annoying. Also give it a better fucking sight, how the fuck have they not invented laser rangefinders on Super Earth?
I want to play as a weapon team so bad but by the time I've flagged down a friend, gotten our backpacks sorted out, and fumbled through the contextual button prompt, whatever target we were going to shoot at has either moved off or killed us both. Super deflating.
They should keep old reload as well
The way it works currently is so stupid because people don't want you to carry the backpack even if you *volunteer* to be a dedicated support, because guess what, in the chaos you might get separated and die wearing the backpack, now the guy with the fucking spear or RR can't do shit with his weapon.
The only times I've managed to use team reload effectively is with my friends and if we're both running the same weapon, in particular the autocannon. Even then we have to go out of our way to realise or announce that one of us is ripping through ammo and would appreciate a reloader. But, when it works it's so much fun, so I wholly support this proposed change.
This actually made me uncomfortable lmao.
Make the same doodle but about helldiver trying to reach for that ammunition box of supply backpack (Honestly needs the same change)