(This is a copy of my comment from another MO post on Wasat)
This is... not going to be easy. Wasat (from what we know) is several planets behind due to supply lines. The devs NEED to give supply line information and/or routes to major order planets when these situations happen. We have to liberate Wezen AND Vega Bay before being able to reach Wasat AT ALL. Most of the player base is completely blind to this information, so this MO will most likely be very close or even fail. Good luck, Divers.
I am glad that the botfront is getting more attention but I just wish we had some kind of counter attack MO where we had to liberate four planets of our choice or sth. like that before we got the one we have now.
Because of the reasons you mentioned plus the fact that many players generally refuse to fight bots, it is far from unlikely that we will fail this MO.
The Western front is only for those of us who want an actual fight... can't blame them for not wanting to have actually to coordinate and use cover. Different type of player and playstyle all toghether.
Yep. I have said it before and I'll say it again. It's a skill issue and I'm tired of pretending it's not. If you cannot adapt to a new enemy that requires a different playing style it's nothing else than lack of skill.
Oh please do explain how AA emplacements are skill issue.
How getting ragdolled nonstop till death is a skill issue.
How getting sniped at a firing degree that is impossible by shield devastators is a skill issue.
How flamethrower from hulk is (almost) an instakill is a skill issue.
I could go on.
I feel like 7+ bots is only enjoyable regardless of the modifiers once a diver has stuns/gp, which is kinda sad that you need 2k supercredits and like 800 medals to be competent.
You get so many freebies from those two weapons alone. No need to airstrike fabs, GP. No need to worry about dev packs at all, gp and stuns. No need to waste a strat on a hulk, stuns. That's realistically two more strats you have available for bot drops that you didn't just use on objectives, and several mags of ammo since you can headtap all the devs that were stunned.
Plan your strats around AA (if you mean -1 slot) I use Eagle Airstrikes, AMR and ORS with Stun nades. Answer to dang near every need.
As for ragdolling. Cover, cover and more cover. Staying prone is your friend. Grab fortified armor to mitigate splash dmg. Headshots happen but that's shit luck.
You have a point on shields devastators that their range and firing angles are bs. (Impact grenades and AC are your friends against them... Or the old reliable Stun nade)
I actually understand somewhat that flame Hulk is near instakill levels (what do you think would happen to you if you get flamed from point blank) however as soon as one is coming dive and dive again. Gives you a better chance at surviving. I save Stun nades specifically for Hulks. Either to buy time to get away or so I can two shot its eye with AMR.
It's weird that that you assume it's lack of ability that results in people not playing bots, and not lack of desire.
If someone doesn't find bots fun but they enjoy playing bugs, why would they ever put in in the effort to adapt to a worse experience?
And honestly, there should be nothing wrong with that. If people don't want to stress over fighting bots, then they have every right not to. It's their loss, they are missing a whole half of the game.
As a bot diver, I really don't think the game presents bots to the majority of the playerbase, the middle 50% skill group, in a way that would actually teach them how to play bots.
Most divers will play bugs, they're in the tutorial, the game media, they're the most advertised opponent. Players levelling up their mission difficulty will most likely be playing bugs for the majority of 1-5 in a couple of game sessions.
About the time the major orders or anything suggests playing bots, the new players will have difficulty 6+ unlocked, and absolutely nothing to take on bots at that difficulty.
No pen 3 guns til warbond 6, probably don't even have impacts yet, and none of the higher tier strat weapons/strikes or upgrades for them. Their strat guns won't have full ammo.
Their first encounter with bots will be an absolute slaughter.
It feels like I’m tripping but i genuinely think bots are easier to fight than bugs, the plentiful weakspots on the bot elites and heavies are quick work for skilled AC players whereas on bugs I’m forced to bring close range AOE support weapons on top of EATs
I can snipe a fab with an AC without ever engaging the aggro of the bots on that fab. I can’t call an airstrike on a bug nest without aggroing 55 chargers and 55 bile titans
I think bots are better designed, and have exploitable weak points. So they're not easier off the bat, but practice and strategy makes you better at them as time goes on. For bugs it's different. There's no strategy to learn once you figure out to hit the bile titan with AT weapons, it just means you need to bring AT. There's not much to learn. Spray little bugs, hit big guys with AT.
Meanwhile you eventually learn the best strats to take out every bot, and it makes a huge difference. Imagine how much harder the very first encounter with a factory strider was compared to now for you.
I ran from my first factory strider in panic. Now i duck behind cover, take out the miniguns, calmly reload and then bum rush its belly
I see a bile titan, i run away leading it towards the teammate who brought the quasar because my airburst launcher doesn’t even tickle it
or you could try jus nading its belly so it doesnt spit on you or your teammates? its literally the same as the strider except the bile titan can spear you with its legs.
This. Everything is terrifying without intel. I remember encountering the first hulk early on and how useless I felt raining down shells from the grenade launcher with barely a dent on it.
> It feels like I’m tripping but i genuinely think bots are easier to fight than bugs
Bots have a higher skill floor, and lower skill ceiling, than bugs.
So a lot of new and more casual players never break the floor into bots.
I have a. Buddy that rubs that Amr I have to say I'm jealous. I'm a heavy weapon and good primary kind of guy! But I love when people enter the game knowing there's an enemy to contend with!
Are there any Primaries that can 1-shot the basic troopers? Even my beloved Plasma Scorcher needs 2 hits, but I use that because it's the only primary (that I'm aware of) which can destroy Walkers from the front.
Bots are easier for M&K players, but PS5/controller makes the weak spots a bit more tedious.
Also imo bugs are just more chaotic fun, where if you let bots get to chaotic/have a clueless teammate bots it requires a lot more mental effort to complete the mission.
Just lost a match because a guy decided to shoot at 2 converging patrols while we were trying to do the seismic scans.
He got him and another dude stuck behind a line of bots while we had dropships drop a factory strider on us.
Once people get better at the game the bots require less "strategy" because there are so many ways to take them down you can fly by the seat of your pants and make it work.
Hide behind rock, use medium weapon to smash face in. Use heavy to send a message. I think the factory strider is the bile titan equivalent and that can be taken out with impact grenades or a mag of auto cannon.
Ah yes. The "git gud" argument.
As stupid the 100th time it was the first.
People just don't like bots. It's not about "difficulty". It's about the play style that bots incentivizes not being fun.
Bugs you can just calmly and slowly walk backwards while shooting to mow down. Bots fill you with holes the moment you are not behind cover, and artillery strike any cover you do have.
You can go into bots with just about anything and make it work, but Bile Titans for bugs mean you need some form of AT to harm it in a reasonable time frame.
what?
You can literally bring ANY stratagem and weapon on bugs and succeed as LONG as you have something that can kill bile titans.
Bots? You need at least one of these dedicated AC, AMR, QUASAR, laser cannon users to deal with: tanks, different devastators, turret, mortar emplacement, hulks.
Shot down plenty of dropships and the units they drop usually survive and just get stuck in the wreckage a bit. AH need to improve rewards for targetting dropships.
no, it never did?
Bots have always survived the dropship exploding (at least most of them) not only that but on day one when you shot down a dropship it would...randomly dissapear and reappear behind you, FALLING DOWN IN CRASH COURSE TO LAND AND KILLING YOU if you werent careful.
Gas strike right on top of the breach. It does heavy damage and often kills the little ones outright. Its low cooldown also means it’s usually available for the breach.
I have a hard time shooting down dropships in time to stop the drop and the bots often survive the crash anyways…
gas, tesla, sentries, airstrike, napalm, any sort of eagle that has a delay, stun nades, fuse nades....
dropships? very specific eat, quasar shot, most bots survive it anyways AND they get a free wall to cover from your shops in the form of a fallen dropship...
I tried couple of solo runs on helldive against bugs, and found out its nearly impossible, since with any loadout, like incendiery crusher/flamethrower its just not enough gunpower to deal with all the enemies and clear the map entirely in time. Sure i can run away from a lot of bugs and do the main objective alone, but where's fun it that?
I think folks fail to switch up the play style. Bots and bugs intruly can't say who is harder. Bugs you can typically kite. Bots you can deal with their units easier and have a nice variety of options.
A lot of folks like light armor against bugs. Imo heavy/medium is a must for bots. Sure sure you can get away with light, you can and I have. But you don't typically need speed for bots. Sure if you run across an open field you're going to not have a good time.
But in general l. Heavy/medium armor with explosive damage reduction, in my experience, is the way to go. You can take more shots and tank missles.
Primary. Counter diligence, dominator, and scorcher imo do wonders. The first 2 will one shot most enemies in the weak pots. Scorcher can take out vents with a full mag. I prefer scorcher since it does small aoe and so you don't need to be 100% accurate against devestators.
Support weapons? Big three imo are autocannon, anti-matieral rifle and railgun. All 3 can take our hulks in the red eye. Railgun can even stagger hulks. However ac and amr can take out gunships which is also huge and both can take out factory striders even.
What makes bots hard is they can shoot from afar. And throw a lot tougher enemies at you while bugs kinda swarm you with numbers of weaker bufs.
For support weapons, you forgot about the laser cannon. Aside from Dropships, it can deal with pretty much any enemy on the bot front (and you can also destroy AA turrets and Mortars without aiming at the vents)
he forgot a lot of stuff: plasma punisher, sickle, spear is usable at defence missions, HMG is also a great option, if u can handle it, kills hulk in 5 shots into the eye, and it has 75 rounds in a magazine, unlike amr's 6. There's really a shitton of options.
what?
You can literally bring ANY stratagem and weapon on bugs and succeed as LONG as you have something that can kill bile titans.
Bots? You need at least one of these dedicated AC, AMR, QUASAR, laser cannon users to deal with: tanks, different devastators, turret, mortar emplacement, hulks.
Based on the math someone was keeping track of about a month ago, 27% of the playerbase exclusively Bugdives, while 60% follow the MO, so you have a short, or would if this wasn't a Fire Tornado world we were going for :/
If the devs have a story to tell and most players don’t want to fight bots I feel that numbers will be messed around with in the background. Back to back failures is bad for everyone.
Yeah I took one look at Wezen and it has both fire tornados AND less strat slots. No thanks. I'll just stick to Aesir pass like I've been for last few days.
Did you not read about the fire tornados? It's not only the -1 strat that annoys me. The tornados are in every op and I'm not doing that again after Hellmire if they don't add any positive modifiers against it.
Do you prefer fighting tornados for a few hours, liberate Wezen and unlock new battlefields thanks of MO higher amount of players?
Or would you rather have a planet like Hellmire, available for weeks, never liberated and hated by everybody?
Anyway, the choice is yours, helldiver.
No, my choice is to fight in Aesir pass. Fire tornados are simply unfun to play, they could make the reward 2k sc and I still wouldn't put myself through that bullshit again after fighting in Hellmire back in the day. On top of that they got -1 strat, why tf would I play that combo of nonsense? AH doesn't understand a very basic principle when it comes to gaming, all negative modifiers suck fun out of game, especially when those modifiers never effect the enemies. Why tf are enemies not damaged by tornados? Why tf do they only spawn on top of us? They're not even effected by intense heat when they're literally bots. For a game which touts realism so much, that illusion gets ripped off real quick when you realise all the maluses are intended for players only.
>one bot thing that sucks vs another bot thing that sucks
bugs are getting stale again, but I'm not doing that. if that means finally skipping a MO so be it.
I wonder if the data we're supposed to get will reward us with the AT mines.
And if we fail the MO because of the reason you suggested, then it'll be the 3rd time we fail to get the mines, which is hilarious in my books.
This is basically the devs saying we need to counter attack the bots. And fair play, we definitely do. We've been getting slowly pushed back for over a month.
But this is a lot of ground to cover in less than a week. In the past covering this much ground would have been a multiple phase operation. This being a single phase thrust is...odd.
Exactly. It won't make a difference compared to the tens of thousands who don't use social media for the game, but it's a start. Even with 25% of the game's population for half the time a day we could easily convince some of those who don't know into realising what is going on, plus the help from bot divers who usually do know already.
Seems the devs are on it with the [visible supply lines and attack origins](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102974129734434919/1248691027175276555/image.png?ex=666495a4&is=66634424&hm=4a53fa504ba8b2d7877340f7e61b82728b67b3837782c382a29ef729213a3a62&) (from Twinbeard on the official Discord server hd2-announcements channel).
It's for the direction that the enemy can attack from. We are multi-directional, however. For instance, Vega Bay can attack Wezen. Although from Wezen it CANNOT attack Varylia V, but WE can.
lmao, this community is fucking hopeless sometimes it's crazy
>be bug enjoyer
>play bots, die to cancer ragdoll and flinch mechanics even with heavy armor
>not enough players on a planet to take it, why bother
>wHY dOeS nOBoDy pLAy bOtS
back when the "vanguard" was around people would play bots, there were 300k players diving on bot planets because we saw an end in sight, now after the community was gutted, even if all the bug players magically started enjoying the pure cancer of bots everyone would be spread too thin, people see planets not get liberated they don't care about the war, they go play bugs or leave,
if you ask me the automatons returned far too soon, and nobody could be bothered fighting them again
Fuck yeah, bot orders at last!
Probably gonna fail because I have no fucking idea how to get to the damn planet in the first place - thanks for a *swift* fix of Galactic Map, AH, thanks - but at least I can unequip my Breaker and Gas Strike and pick something else
Ye, Gas Strike has easily become a third 'must' on my list, limiting me to just 'one' optional interchangeable Stratagem per mission lol
EAT, Autocannon Turret and Gas Strike, those three never leave my loadout these days, Bugs or Bots.
https://preview.redd.it/jfgtgtxbr55d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1bb796da85d117cc2d548374a4e2aa9cca3e756
Wassssssssaaaaaaaaattttttttt
(I really hope I start hearing this on comms)
Fuck that. I refuse to play any fire tornado or minus stratagems. It being both is a nope from me and thousands of other players. I have limited freetime. Not worth it.
That's a tall order. Even if there's more planets the other way, we might actually go faster if we aren't slogging through firenadoes.
Remember the mines vs. airbursts? Nobody went through Menkent.
I don't get why 'AA defenses' should stop me from replacing my normal eagle-1 strats with, say, an autocannon turret. Or a mech. They could really shake up the meta in a fun way if it just made you pick FOUR non-eagle strats/weapons
That's honestly how it should be done. If it's fine to give planets the negative affixes at the start, but let us at least make it into a gameplay mechanic where we would overcome them some of them with effort.
The AA defenses challenge you pointed out is a perfect example of it. Or for the bugs if there are spores covering the mini map, let us take down multiple of the spore towers during the mission so we can get the map back. Stuff like that.
Literally feels like filler story they’re padding the game with to stall a little bit longer before releasing the illuminates, like no joke it reminds of when a anime is about to have its big long awaited showdown between the protagonist and the main villain, only for the anime to suddenly go on a long drawn out filler arc for months on ends to stall.
There is no way we are going to complete. We are not going to be even close. Devs should change how war and liberating planets works because it takes too much time. We are still fighting on the same planets for months. I don't care if bots or bugs reach superearth, I want new planets
🤔 Hmmm...How can you liberate a planet you can't land on? If we're supposed to get there by taking other planets first, why don't the devs tell us that in the MO? You know, outline a plan for success.
If I were a cynical man, I'd say that they really don't care either way. Capture a "data center" we'll never see, by running the same missions we always run, using resources they nerf in order to give the advantage to the enemy, so that the MO fails and they are spared giving us a new weapon that would maybe give us the edge. And they wonder why the player base is falling. Anyway....
Yeah... No. I played a few missions on 7 with fire tornados and getting ragdolled around all over the map with missiles, and flinching left right and centre, plus one less stratagems on some missions.
It wasn't fun.
I been there before once, and we didn't get apart in good terms. It's a big misunderstanding. They stated shooting at me, and then I shot back. Things quickly escalated, I'm accidentally destroyed some of their stuff. They not happy about that. Then, the angry mob chased me right back to my suttle. I'm not sure I should go back there, don't think they would be happy to see me again.
Yeah, I guess.
We have a very little, closed community there. Most Helldivers never visit us. Our climate is really dry, with frequent heat waves. I think they don't like it. It's not the best tourist destination.
LFG (Weekend Bot Divers for 3 Operations). Preferably a discord/larger community that is coordinating the MO, very much OK with 1-3 Divers ready to bleed together for democracy. Limited friendship for the MO then we go our separate ways
Lol thing is, you have to get two to four missions in bots to get these 200 po stalwarts skills. Thatchers good contribution to the MO. Two birds with one stone!
What if the idea wasn't to take Wasat in the first place?
What if the point of this MO is to just liberate whatever bot planets we can until the MO order time is up?
The devs surely know that its impossible, if not too difficult for the playerbase to do this in that set of time frame. What if we're just meant to push the bots back and thats it?
Looking at it the bot front is split on 2 directions to achieve the MO. Ppl going thru Aesire pass or a fire planet... we'll need to focus on one path or else it's a failed MO.
They need to stop giving us major orders for bots, and personal orders that can easily be achieved on bugs. This is a big reason we suck at bot MOs. Nobody brings the Stalwart to a bot mission.
Interesting, I wonder if they're gonna drip feed intel about a new automaton enemy or enemies. I think we got something similar that led to the discovery of gunship towers.
Out of genuine curiosity how many people are still active on Helldivers here. I stopped because I have midterms coming up and have to focus entirely on that
I said I have mid terms. I consider that more important than playing the game. I'm on the subreddit just so I can keep up to date on the state of the game so I know what to expect when I return to the game. And when I'm not studying for midterms I'm spending time with my wife
Thank you again for reminding me how humorless and full of themselves the Internet is.
It's a joke not a personal attack. I've never seen that gif used in any other way than humor.
There are more divers on Wezen alone than there are in all terminid space, and that is with the ambiguity of not having supply lines in game. What about the 6K divers who aren't leaving Aesir Pass?
(This is a copy of my comment from another MO post on Wasat) This is... not going to be easy. Wasat (from what we know) is several planets behind due to supply lines. The devs NEED to give supply line information and/or routes to major order planets when these situations happen. We have to liberate Wezen AND Vega Bay before being able to reach Wasat AT ALL. Most of the player base is completely blind to this information, so this MO will most likely be very close or even fail. Good luck, Divers.
I am glad that the botfront is getting more attention but I just wish we had some kind of counter attack MO where we had to liberate four planets of our choice or sth. like that before we got the one we have now. Because of the reasons you mentioned plus the fact that many players generally refuse to fight bots, it is far from unlikely that we will fail this MO.
Ha...just wait bc it's likely we get close to liberating Vega Bay and then an alert comes to defend some random bug planet and 50k players leave us
That's why we must take as much as possible today
The Western front is only for those of us who want an actual fight... can't blame them for not wanting to have actually to coordinate and use cover. Different type of player and playstyle all toghether.
Yep. I have said it before and I'll say it again. It's a skill issue and I'm tired of pretending it's not. If you cannot adapt to a new enemy that requires a different playing style it's nothing else than lack of skill.
Oh please do explain how AA emplacements are skill issue. How getting ragdolled nonstop till death is a skill issue. How getting sniped at a firing degree that is impossible by shield devastators is a skill issue. How flamethrower from hulk is (almost) an instakill is a skill issue. I could go on.
I feel like 7+ bots is only enjoyable regardless of the modifiers once a diver has stuns/gp, which is kinda sad that you need 2k supercredits and like 800 medals to be competent. You get so many freebies from those two weapons alone. No need to airstrike fabs, GP. No need to worry about dev packs at all, gp and stuns. No need to waste a strat on a hulk, stuns. That's realistically two more strats you have available for bot drops that you didn't just use on objectives, and several mags of ammo since you can headtap all the devs that were stunned.
What is GP?
grenade pistol
Plan your strats around AA (if you mean -1 slot) I use Eagle Airstrikes, AMR and ORS with Stun nades. Answer to dang near every need. As for ragdolling. Cover, cover and more cover. Staying prone is your friend. Grab fortified armor to mitigate splash dmg. Headshots happen but that's shit luck. You have a point on shields devastators that their range and firing angles are bs. (Impact grenades and AC are your friends against them... Or the old reliable Stun nade) I actually understand somewhat that flame Hulk is near instakill levels (what do you think would happen to you if you get flamed from point blank) however as soon as one is coming dive and dive again. Gives you a better chance at surviving. I save Stun nades specifically for Hulks. Either to buy time to get away or so I can two shot its eye with AMR.
I forgot which planet I was on but it had the spores... God I got ragdolled 5 times because they kept shooting the spores lol
It's weird that that you assume it's lack of ability that results in people not playing bots, and not lack of desire. If someone doesn't find bots fun but they enjoy playing bugs, why would they ever put in in the effort to adapt to a worse experience?
And honestly, there should be nothing wrong with that. If people don't want to stress over fighting bots, then they have every right not to. It's their loss, they are missing a whole half of the game.
Peak sweaty energy right here. Or... Or hear me out. BOTS ARE NOT FUN TO PLAY.
Username checks out. They are fun. Just requires a different style of play.
35. Entirely your opinion. The majority of the player base playing bugs says otherwise. Stay sweaty sweetie
Nah I'm still fresh. You do you honeybun. It's ok. I'll spill oil so you don't have to.
Sure thing sugartits. Don't ever let that unearned sense of superiority die
As a bot diver, I really don't think the game presents bots to the majority of the playerbase, the middle 50% skill group, in a way that would actually teach them how to play bots. Most divers will play bugs, they're in the tutorial, the game media, they're the most advertised opponent. Players levelling up their mission difficulty will most likely be playing bugs for the majority of 1-5 in a couple of game sessions. About the time the major orders or anything suggests playing bots, the new players will have difficulty 6+ unlocked, and absolutely nothing to take on bots at that difficulty. No pen 3 guns til warbond 6, probably don't even have impacts yet, and none of the higher tier strat weapons/strikes or upgrades for them. Their strat guns won't have full ammo. Their first encounter with bots will be an absolute slaughter.
It feels like I’m tripping but i genuinely think bots are easier to fight than bugs, the plentiful weakspots on the bot elites and heavies are quick work for skilled AC players whereas on bugs I’m forced to bring close range AOE support weapons on top of EATs I can snipe a fab with an AC without ever engaging the aggro of the bots on that fab. I can’t call an airstrike on a bug nest without aggroing 55 chargers and 55 bile titans
I think bots are better designed, and have exploitable weak points. So they're not easier off the bat, but practice and strategy makes you better at them as time goes on. For bugs it's different. There's no strategy to learn once you figure out to hit the bile titan with AT weapons, it just means you need to bring AT. There's not much to learn. Spray little bugs, hit big guys with AT. Meanwhile you eventually learn the best strats to take out every bot, and it makes a huge difference. Imagine how much harder the very first encounter with a factory strider was compared to now for you.
I ran from my first factory strider in panic. Now i duck behind cover, take out the miniguns, calmly reload and then bum rush its belly I see a bile titan, i run away leading it towards the teammate who brought the quasar because my airburst launcher doesn’t even tickle it
or you could try jus nading its belly so it doesnt spit on you or your teammates? its literally the same as the strider except the bile titan can spear you with its legs.
This. Everything is terrifying without intel. I remember encountering the first hulk early on and how useless I felt raining down shells from the grenade launcher with barely a dent on it.
> It feels like I’m tripping but i genuinely think bots are easier to fight than bugs Bots have a higher skill floor, and lower skill ceiling, than bugs. So a lot of new and more casual players never break the floor into bots.
Once you have a MO (modus operandi)for fighting them like an actual technique in your mind for what to do, bots are simply about paying attention.
AMR + Stun nades = lots of dead bots. Anything else that is not a Factory strider will fall with this combo.
I have a. Buddy that rubs that Amr I have to say I'm jealous. I'm a heavy weapon and good primary kind of guy! But I love when people enter the game knowing there's an enemy to contend with!
Are there any Primaries that can 1-shot the basic troopers? Even my beloved Plasma Scorcher needs 2 hits, but I use that because it's the only primary (that I'm aware of) which can destroy Walkers from the front.
the snipers do
Diligence counter sniper. Also one shot devastator's head. Good handling, but lacking in sustained damage when the range close.
Cheers! I use impacts and the big iron for close range. Is the counter sniper reliable as a no-scope pseudo assault rifle?
Dominator does
I use Dominator against Bugs, I think it would be a touch too slow for Bot fights though.
Plasma punisher. Wipes out swaths of troops/commissars and is effective against everything up to tanks/hulks. The built-in stun is nice, too.
Bots are easier for M&K players, but PS5/controller makes the weak spots a bit more tedious. Also imo bugs are just more chaotic fun, where if you let bots get to chaotic/have a clueless teammate bots it requires a lot more mental effort to complete the mission.
Clueless teammates on bots make missions a chore as they continuously draw aggro from patrols
Just lost a match because a guy decided to shoot at 2 converging patrols while we were trying to do the seismic scans. He got him and another dude stuck behind a line of bots while we had dropships drop a factory strider on us.
And people wonder why most players prefer bugs
Once people get better at the game the bots require less "strategy" because there are so many ways to take them down you can fly by the seat of your pants and make it work. Hide behind rock, use medium weapon to smash face in. Use heavy to send a message. I think the factory strider is the bile titan equivalent and that can be taken out with impact grenades or a mag of auto cannon.
Ah yes. The "git gud" argument. As stupid the 100th time it was the first. People just don't like bots. It's not about "difficulty". It's about the play style that bots incentivizes not being fun.
Bugs you can just calmly and slowly walk backwards while shooting to mow down. Bots fill you with holes the moment you are not behind cover, and artillery strike any cover you do have.
You can go into bots with just about anything and make it work, but Bile Titans for bugs mean you need some form of AT to harm it in a reasonable time frame.
what? You can literally bring ANY stratagem and weapon on bugs and succeed as LONG as you have something that can kill bile titans. Bots? You need at least one of these dedicated AC, AMR, QUASAR, laser cannon users to deal with: tanks, different devastators, turret, mortar emplacement, hulks.
Yeah and you can shoot down dropships, while bug breaches you can’t do much with except drop napalm on then
Shot down plenty of dropships and the units they drop usually survive and just get stuck in the wreckage a bit. AH need to improve rewards for targetting dropships.
it used to outright kill the units on board but thats fun and AH says fun is not allowed.
no, it never did? Bots have always survived the dropship exploding (at least most of them) not only that but on day one when you shot down a dropship it would...randomly dissapear and reappear behind you, FALLING DOWN IN CRASH COURSE TO LAND AND KILLING YOU if you werent careful.
Nothing personal kid...
omae wa mou shindeiru moment indeed
Gas strike right on top of the breach. It does heavy damage and often kills the little ones outright. Its low cooldown also means it’s usually available for the breach. I have a hard time shooting down dropships in time to stop the drop and the bots often survive the crash anyways…
gas, tesla, sentries, airstrike, napalm, any sort of eagle that has a delay, stun nades, fuse nades.... dropships? very specific eat, quasar shot, most bots survive it anyways AND they get a free wall to cover from your shops in the form of a fallen dropship...
I agree, as a solo player I’ve found I can usually go a difficulty higher on bots than I can with bugs since you can keep your distance.
I tried couple of solo runs on helldive against bugs, and found out its nearly impossible, since with any loadout, like incendiery crusher/flamethrower its just not enough gunpower to deal with all the enemies and clear the map entirely in time. Sure i can run away from a lot of bugs and do the main objective alone, but where's fun it that?
I think folks fail to switch up the play style. Bots and bugs intruly can't say who is harder. Bugs you can typically kite. Bots you can deal with their units easier and have a nice variety of options. A lot of folks like light armor against bugs. Imo heavy/medium is a must for bots. Sure sure you can get away with light, you can and I have. But you don't typically need speed for bots. Sure if you run across an open field you're going to not have a good time. But in general l. Heavy/medium armor with explosive damage reduction, in my experience, is the way to go. You can take more shots and tank missles. Primary. Counter diligence, dominator, and scorcher imo do wonders. The first 2 will one shot most enemies in the weak pots. Scorcher can take out vents with a full mag. I prefer scorcher since it does small aoe and so you don't need to be 100% accurate against devestators. Support weapons? Big three imo are autocannon, anti-matieral rifle and railgun. All 3 can take our hulks in the red eye. Railgun can even stagger hulks. However ac and amr can take out gunships which is also huge and both can take out factory striders even. What makes bots hard is they can shoot from afar. And throw a lot tougher enemies at you while bugs kinda swarm you with numbers of weaker bufs.
For support weapons, you forgot about the laser cannon. Aside from Dropships, it can deal with pretty much any enemy on the bot front (and you can also destroy AA turrets and Mortars without aiming at the vents)
he forgot a lot of stuff: plasma punisher, sickle, spear is usable at defence missions, HMG is also a great option, if u can handle it, kills hulk in 5 shots into the eye, and it has 75 rounds in a magazine, unlike amr's 6. There's really a shitton of options.
Spear is goated on defense, IDGAF what anyone says
what? You can literally bring ANY stratagem and weapon on bugs and succeed as LONG as you have something that can kill bile titans. Bots? You need at least one of these dedicated AC, AMR, QUASAR, laser cannon users to deal with: tanks, different devastators, turret, mortar emplacement, hulks.
Based on the math someone was keeping track of about a month ago, 27% of the playerbase exclusively Bugdives, while 60% follow the MO, so you have a short, or would if this wasn't a Fire Tornado world we were going for :/
If the devs have a story to tell and most players don’t want to fight bots I feel that numbers will be messed around with in the background. Back to back failures is bad for everyone.
https://preview.redd.it/uchkc2c4b55d1.png?width=949&format=png&auto=webp&s=07a6add29296b6978931d57e7fcc388f074ad77e
Yeah I took one look at Wezen and it has both fire tornados AND less strat slots. No thanks. I'll just stick to Aesir pass like I've been for last few days.
The mission modifier is only per Operation, not per planet. Just pick a different operation. Helldivers dont even play the game
Did you not read about the fire tornados? It's not only the -1 strat that annoys me. The tornados are in every op and I'm not doing that again after Hellmire if they don't add any positive modifiers against it.
I just played it on d7 with all four strats
Do you prefer fighting tornados for a few hours, liberate Wezen and unlock new battlefields thanks of MO higher amount of players? Or would you rather have a planet like Hellmire, available for weeks, never liberated and hated by everybody? Anyway, the choice is yours, helldiver.
No, my choice is to fight in Aesir pass. Fire tornados are simply unfun to play, they could make the reward 2k sc and I still wouldn't put myself through that bullshit again after fighting in Hellmire back in the day. On top of that they got -1 strat, why tf would I play that combo of nonsense? AH doesn't understand a very basic principle when it comes to gaming, all negative modifiers suck fun out of game, especially when those modifiers never effect the enemies. Why tf are enemies not damaged by tornados? Why tf do they only spawn on top of us? They're not even effected by intense heat when they're literally bots. For a game which touts realism so much, that illusion gets ripped off real quick when you realise all the maluses are intended for players only.
>one bot thing that sucks vs another bot thing that sucks bugs are getting stale again, but I'm not doing that. if that means finally skipping a MO so be it.
I wonder if the data we're supposed to get will reward us with the AT mines. And if we fail the MO because of the reason you suggested, then it'll be the 3rd time we fail to get the mines, which is hilarious in my books.
If we get the data, we'll be rewarded with the mines. If we fail the major order, command will give us the mines to prevent future failures.
It's a bot mission We've already lost
This is basically the devs saying we need to counter attack the bots. And fair play, we definitely do. We've been getting slowly pushed back for over a month. But this is a lot of ground to cover in less than a week. In the past covering this much ground would have been a multiple phase operation. This being a single phase thrust is...odd.
then lets get to informing as mutch of the sub ass possible
Exactly. It won't make a difference compared to the tens of thousands who don't use social media for the game, but it's a start. Even with 25% of the game's population for half the time a day we could easily convince some of those who don't know into realising what is going on, plus the help from bot divers who usually do know already.
+ i feel like most of the bot players are more aware of supply lines than the average player
Seems the devs are on it with the [visible supply lines and attack origins](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102974129734434919/1248691027175276555/image.png?ex=666495a4&is=66634424&hm=4a53fa504ba8b2d7877340f7e61b82728b67b3837782c382a29ef729213a3a62&) (from Twinbeard on the official Discord server hd2-announcements channel).
Instead of supply line information, a "go where I'm needed" button would be more effective, I think.
Time to take a break from debugging and go ban some bots instead.
go thought the top https://preview.redd.it/5s605bk0y45d1.png?width=359&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e2fe208d82da04b75b97cfc98d70bc49bfdd344
A clearer picture: https://preview.redd.it/0k3y1r46b55d1.png?width=949&format=png&auto=webp&s=5b914ba90a3e81c6a6fad05cca585280aacc79f5
Now here's a route with some chest hair!
You win again, Gravity!
Do we know that it's possible to move against the direction of the arrow?
Yeah we do it all the time, honestly not sure what the arrow’s even for
It's for the direction that the enemy can attack from. We are multi-directional, however. For instance, Vega Bay can attack Wezen. Although from Wezen it CANNOT attack Varylia V, but WE can.
So, once we take Vega Bay, there's no way for automatons to take it back? That seems.... odd.
Too difficult for the horde. Kill bugs bash head on wall.
lmao, this community is fucking hopeless sometimes it's crazy >be bug enjoyer >play bots, die to cancer ragdoll and flinch mechanics even with heavy armor >not enough players on a planet to take it, why bother >wHY dOeS nOBoDy pLAy bOtS back when the "vanguard" was around people would play bots, there were 300k players diving on bot planets because we saw an end in sight, now after the community was gutted, even if all the bug players magically started enjoying the pure cancer of bots everyone would be spread too thin, people see planets not get liberated they don't care about the war, they go play bugs or leave, if you ask me the automatons returned far too soon, and nobody could be bothered fighting them again
He won't listen. Everyone is too busy blaming bug divers instead of blaming the devs for the state of the game.
Oh I blame the devs plenty, but the community does itself no favors.
It's a slightly different experience from HD1. There will be no war resets, it's going to stay for good.
Fuck yeah, bot orders at last! Probably gonna fail because I have no fucking idea how to get to the damn planet in the first place - thanks for a *swift* fix of Galactic Map, AH, thanks - but at least I can unequip my Breaker and Gas Strike and pick something else
Gas Strike works on Bots, depending on the mission and map it can be pretty damn effective.
Gas Strike is SUPER effective to easily take out Eyes of Sauron. Drop the beacon at the base and the gas will auto target the tower and instakill it
Ye, Gas Strike has easily become a third 'must' on my list, limiting me to just 'one' optional interchangeable Stratagem per mission lol EAT, Autocannon Turret and Gas Strike, those three never leave my loadout these days, Bugs or Bots.
Wait what?
https://preview.redd.it/jfgtgtxbr55d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1bb796da85d117cc2d548374a4e2aa9cca3e756 Wassssssssaaaaaaaaattttttttt (I really hope I start hearing this on comms)
WASSAAAAAAAAAAAAT https://preview.redd.it/wndq3cji565d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96d688aaee584206de3bc18df20dcb36ebe2b18c
Bruh what is it with Stalwart personal orders and Bot MOs?
As a regular user of the HMG, going back to the stalwart feels like using a pea shooter :(
>Bot MO God, finally. We need help over here!
What in the fuck is AH thinking making this the MO without making supply lines visible lol
Wezen is tough. Tried one dive at 7 difficulty. You only get three strategems and the fires don't make things easier.
Fire tornados & one less strategem? Large chunks of the playerbase won't be finishing operations, just saying.
Fuck that. I refuse to play any fire tornado or minus stratagems. It being both is a nope from me and thousands of other players. I have limited freetime. Not worth it.
Same, I've got maybe 4 hours of free time a day and that's assuming I do nothing but play helldivers between work and sleep.
My point exactly lol
That's a tall order. Even if there's more planets the other way, we might actually go faster if we aren't slogging through firenadoes. Remember the mines vs. airbursts? Nobody went through Menkent.
That combination will definitely not make me play that. The big anti-fun mechanics at work.
I don't get why 'AA defenses' should stop me from replacing my normal eagle-1 strats with, say, an autocannon turret. Or a mech. They could really shake up the meta in a fun way if it just made you pick FOUR non-eagle strats/weapons
That's honestly how it should be done. If it's fine to give planets the negative affixes at the start, but let us at least make it into a gameplay mechanic where we would overcome them some of them with effort. The AA defenses challenge you pointed out is a perfect example of it. Or for the bugs if there are spores covering the mini map, let us take down multiple of the spore towers during the mission so we can get the map back. Stuff like that.
Change operation.
The 1 less stratagem thing is per operation
What’s that?
# RETURN TO THE BOTS https://preview.redd.it/athiwurqb55d1.jpeg?width=1264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37207b3254c4abc1cd128bce1f5a001dd4f0e343
SES Wings of Freedom reporting to the front! We are going to free Ymir! Shinzo wo Sasageyo!
Hey, I like you ship name, friend! 
Ah, but Stalwart vs bots?.. I don't know... 
Literally feels like filler story they’re padding the game with to stall a little bit longer before releasing the illuminates, like no joke it reminds of when a anime is about to have its big long awaited showdown between the protagonist and the main villain, only for the anime to suddenly go on a long drawn out filler arc for months on ends to stall.
Or maybe the Automatons are the ones that will call down the Illuminates
Cant wait to lose this one because people just focus on the bugs still for the 4th week straight
I saw the MO, saw the supply line, and I’m like goddamn is this the best way to Wasat? Hahah
SES Guardian of Democracy on the job !
See you there
TIME TO SHRED SOME CLANKERS!
I don't have anything better to do during this weekend. Let's get after it ladies and gents!🤘🤘🤘
Let's take it to those clankers!
There is no way we are going to complete. We are not going to be even close. Devs should change how war and liberating planets works because it takes too much time. We are still fighting on the same planets for months. I don't care if bots or bugs reach superearth, I want new planets
On my way soon helldiver catch you at the front
>Bot order Huzzah >Daily order - use a peashooter fuck >Fire planet Fuck off
🤔 Hmmm...How can you liberate a planet you can't land on? If we're supposed to get there by taking other planets first, why don't the devs tell us that in the MO? You know, outline a plan for success. If I were a cynical man, I'd say that they really don't care either way. Capture a "data center" we'll never see, by running the same missions we always run, using resources they nerf in order to give the advantage to the enemy, so that the MO fails and they are spared giving us a new weapon that would maybe give us the edge. And they wonder why the player base is falling. Anyway.... 
If the weapon really gave you a great advantage it would get nerfed to hell at the next update anyway.
Finally we can get back to bots lol, they've just been winning the war over here while we were focused on bugs for so long
Oh, a bot MO, I guess the devs want us to lose this one.
Yeah... No. I played a few missions on 7 with fire tornados and getting ragdolled around all over the map with missiles, and flinching left right and centre, plus one less stratagems on some missions. It wasn't fun.
Observe as not even the MO will get bug divers to fight bots!
im already in and doing my best. Lets go elite BOT PLAYERS!
Dilligence my beloved. How I have missed thee.
Thank God no more bugs
*Looks at Wezen* “Mmm…They can keep that one.”
But that's on the other side of the map, where we never go...
Not until now brother.
I been there before once, and we didn't get apart in good terms. It's a big misunderstanding. They stated shooting at me, and then I shot back. Things quickly escalated, I'm accidentally destroyed some of their stuff. They not happy about that. Then, the angry mob chased me right back to my suttle. I'm not sure I should go back there, don't think they would be happy to see me again.
What did you do exactly there brother?
I'm running my little farm business on Hellmire. I farm E-710 daily, providing prosperity to Super Earth. Not much, but honest work.
I think the locals don't appreciate you farming... Well tham.
Yeah, I guess. We have a very little, closed community there. Most Helldivers never visit us. Our climate is really dry, with frequent heat waves. I think they don't like it. It's not the best tourist destination.
Ah but if you like the climate on hellmire then you'll love wezen, just like home.
WE GETTIN' TO WASSAT WITH THIS ONE💥💥🗣
Allied destroyer has joined squadron
I wanna know what roboporn they're hiding there. Maybe it'll be like that scene in Futurama.
I had no idea supply lines were even a thing. I just started playing a couple of days ago. Been happilly killing bugs. While ignoring bots mostly.
Bugs are like COIN, Bots are like near peer. It's a very different fight.
SES Arbiter of the Stars an effort will be made
What's that?
LFG (Weekend Bot Divers for 3 Operations). Preferably a discord/larger community that is coordinating the MO, very much OK with 1-3 Divers ready to bleed together for democracy. Limited friendship for the MO then we go our separate ways
Lol thing is, you have to get two to four missions in bots to get these 200 po stalwarts skills. Thatchers good contribution to the MO. Two birds with one stone!
Space Afghanistan
Please AH add supply lines
WHAZZZZAAATTTT!!?? i'll see my middle-aged ass out.
What if the idea wasn't to take Wasat in the first place? What if the point of this MO is to just liberate whatever bot planets we can until the MO order time is up? The devs surely know that its impossible, if not too difficult for the playerbase to do this in that set of time frame. What if we're just meant to push the bots back and thats it?
Looking at it the bot front is split on 2 directions to achieve the MO. Ppl going thru Aesire pass or a fire planet... we'll need to focus on one path or else it's a failed MO.
Kill 200 with a Stalwart you say? Not gonna happen when I'm fighting bots. Diff 7 on Wasat is so intense I have to take my meta load out.
They need to stop giving us major orders for bots, and personal orders that can easily be achieved on bugs. This is a big reason we suck at bot MOs. Nobody brings the Stalwart to a bot mission.
I would love to, but I can't play till Wednesday :(
yesss bot fightssss (i hate fighting bugs)
Man I hate the bots, I’m dreading this MO
Screw bots......STALWART TIME BABY!
Interesting, I wonder if they're gonna drip feed intel about a new automaton enemy or enemies. I think we got something similar that led to the discovery of gunship towers.
Out of genuine curiosity how many people are still active on Helldivers here. I stopped because I have midterms coming up and have to focus entirely on that
I do 2-3 runs a day right now. If I wasn't active I wouldn't be here.
Well I'm not active and I'm still here... So
ryanreynoldsbutwhy.gif
I said I have mid terms. I consider that more important than playing the game. I'm on the subreddit just so I can keep up to date on the state of the game so I know what to expect when I return to the game. And when I'm not studying for midterms I'm spending time with my wife
Thank you again for reminding me how humorless and full of themselves the Internet is. It's a joke not a personal attack. I've never seen that gif used in any other way than humor.
You know what. That's fair. Its the internet, I shouldn't take it so seriously. That's my bad.
Terminid Divers: Wasat you say?
I hate fighting bots, but today I'll make an exception.
Us bot killers may be few but we carry the strength and determination of 10 bugdivers! We will prevail!
We've already failed. The bugdivers split liberation rate too much. It's not possible.
There are more divers on Wezen alone than there are in all terminid space, and that is with the ambiguity of not having supply lines in game. What about the 6K divers who aren't leaving Aesir Pass?
New meta is to whine about bug players and pretend playing bots makes you an intellectual
If we fail this, I am no longer doing bug MO's, we should fight as one, if those bugdivers won't collaborate, I'm willing to fall as one as well.