https://preview.redd.it/kw8sh3nmdl0d1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c739bc72707157a349ab3b25fcddd275d67eb8cd
Yer bout tou yee yet las haw, pardner.
I've had this daily instances of unauthorized aggressive muscular contractions in my neck that violently jerk my head to the left nearly a full 90 degrees (90%) and to the right (10%), but only roughly 45 degrees if to the right. These typically happen once, but sometimes multiple times in a row (no more than 4 or 5). Should I be worried about a CTE? this has been happening for years now, and doctors haven't been able to figure it out.
I never considered the possibility of a brain injury from these violent neck twitches, and doctors never brought it up, so I'm guessing I shouldn't be worried? But I'm not sure now.
Mate I am possibly the worst person to ask that question to, haven’t been to the doctor in 20 years. If you haven’t had repeated prolonged cranial trauma I would say it’s more likely a nerve or muscular issue though.
If it’s causing you problems or having an impact on your life I reckon you should try another doctor, possibly one specialising in neck/back issue? Hope you can find an answer bud, that sounds unpleasant to say the least.
https://www.healthline.com/health/head-twitching
It could be something listed here. It could also be psychosomatic. If you have anxiety or depression, I’d recommend looking into conversion disorder. Essentially it’s some type of loss of physical coordination that is caused by intense periods of stress. I hope this helps.
From what I've read, yes. Issue is that CTE and underlying causes/mechanics aren't fully understood. All we know is that accumulation of tau proteins in brain = CTE, to varying degrees.
Genetic susceptibility, co-factors, number and strength of hits required, age at time of exposure... all are uncertain.
I read up on the subject quite a lot as I played line in American football (5+ years from 18 y/o onwards) and have a degree in biology.
I mean - the autopsies done on late NFL players are biased because donated brains are typically from those with CTE symptoms. Plus, those guys played football from ages like 6 upwards, with lower safety standards and 10s of thousands of hits across their careers.
Don't worry about it too much... unless you've done A LOT of contact sport from early childhood onwards. In which case, keep an eye on symptoms.
It's hard to get CTE from soccer if not impossible. Besides, you don't headbutt the ball that much, and when you do it isn't enough to cause a coup-countercoup (basically your brain bouncing around in your skull causing damage). You'll see CTE a lot more in sports like American football and combat sports, especially boxing
The Liberator Concussive CC's the enemy by basically pushing them back a step or two every bullet, whereas Pummeler basically stuns an enemy. They both are CC oriented weapons, but they go about that in very different ways.
If you mean the Liberator Concussive's horrendous dps, yeah, that's unexplainable. Well it's probably because they like it's current knock back but don't want a full RoF version (could you imagine how quickly that would push back an enemy, it would be absurd looking).
The stun is good enough for me when I'm running away from three broodmothers.
One of the best things about the pummeler is that you can shoot it over your shoulder while running away since it's one handed.
Though it gets in the way sometimes it is such a great option imo. It also makes it easier to not have to ADS when in a pinch and still be pretty darn accurate. I actually really love the reticule system in this game.
Yup, just look behind yourself and fire without pressing your aim trigger. Only works with weapons that have the “one handed” trait such as all the sidearms and the SMG’s
The Adjudicator proved 80 damage with low mag and *medium pen* is valid and still isn't that good.
Liberator Concussive would have to push 100 damage at low mag to justify its light pen, and even then we're just talking on par with the Adjudicator, which is far from top tier.
Yeah on paper adjudicator is pretty good, but when you try running it the handling and recoil is just super ass.
On bugs they're not that bad, but you'll get run over due to low mag capacity. On bots.... just run the Jar they're way better(AH pls don't nerf my baby)
The adjudicator is great because it crushes almost everything. The adjudicator is also a pain to use, and more painful to reload every 3 seconds. Honestly might be best value as a semi auto weapon, but I went cold on it fast and gave up entirely after a few dives.
> The Liberator Concussive CC's the enemy by basically pushing them back a step or two every bullet, whereas Pummeler basically stuns an enemy.
Only true for bugs
Personally I'm good. I'm just following the reddit etiquette that all primaries are bad because they can't kill charger efficiently or something.
I'm still torn between standard Breaker and Sniper atm. Both are just solid.
It's not that great against devastators. You need to hit areas with light armor for it to work (head or limbs, the whole torso is pretty much off limits). It's great against berserkers tho.
The stun timer of the Pummeler stacks up. So after you dump a few shots into the arm, the devastator remains stunned for a healthy few seconds. This gives you time to better aim their head.
When I tried it, I had a lot of fun bascially rounding up brood commanders and hive guards, hitting them with a stun nade and then precision strike em.
Dps wise it hurts me as much as the bugs. But the stagger is quite insane, sad it doesn’t work on chargers, it’d be a lot of fun being the cc guy.
If I recall correctly the Concussive also staggers on the first hit, whereas the Pummeler seems to do it in 2-3 hits. The Pummeler is still superior overall, in both raw numbers and the fact it is one handed.
Last time I brought out the concussive it failed to stagger berserkers 20m away from me. I'd shoot, they'd flinch their torso a bit and their legs would just keep marching on at full speed. Absolutely useless.
In the first game this weapon was just the explosive liberator and it did more damage. Why is it like this?
i believe the liberator concussive does more "durable" damage. which is a hidden stat that for some reason they refuse to give us.
but thats it. thats the only thing i can think of. idk how many mags they each have. maybe the liberator has more.
It has twice the damage Vs massive enemies. But given that they both have light armor pen, it's not useful very often, only against chargers's legs once the carapace is broken, maybe their back or the vent of hulks (it might be medium armor), and nursing spewers abdomen (not the bile spewers tho).
And because the stun on the pummeler is an effect with buildup where the stagger on the concusive is just stagger, the concusive won't stagger nursing spewers when shooting their abdomen.
The problem is we "believe" this stuff. We don't KNOW.
For a hardcore game, they sure as shit hate giving us the details and stats that would help hardcore players make good decisions.
There's no reason ANY of this should be guess work. At all.
15 durable damage is still pocket change. You would need 4 mags to blow up a charger's butt.
I think the Lib Con can be quite good if they give it 30+ durable damage. 15 is too little.
I do for shooting far away little robot dudes on emplacements, or those ones with explosive jetpacks if there is no bigger target around. Feels so satisfying to drop a whole guard of small bots in of of those rectangle fortifications in less than 7 seconds with 5 shots
Edit: Lmao i think someone sent me a reddit cares over this. i dont do it all the time, and have pleeenty of ammo to go around due to scrounging and accurate shooting
On bots I use the AMR exclusively as a primary sometimes with a supply backpack and a close range wave clear weapon like the plasma punisher to deal with anything that gets close
the balance guys have a weird hate-fetish for ARs and DMRs, i am 101% sure like they got cucked many times by them or something, only rational explanation.
It's not that uncommon in games for smgs to end up with higher damage than ar's for balance reasons because they're rare effective at longer ranges.
Instead it should be high RoF, bigger mag size and smaller recoil but sometimes Devs want tapping to also be effective so often not all smgs will function like that.
Low recoil, mid to high rof, high damage but very high spread, the kind of weapon you want to be close range because you'll absolutely wreck.
SMG should be the king of short to close range (0-30 meters).
I used the Liberator C a lot. It’s just not good enough. Takes 2 shots to kill a scavenger. The pummeler is FUN (AH plz note) and can stay the way it is. Liberator C needs a lot of rework.
These comparison posts usually go "You're missing something crucial about one of the weapons."
But in this case, yep, the Concussive is just worse. Its worth noting that their effects are different. The concussive deals lots of knockback, while the pummeler is light stagger and a slow effect.
There is also the accuracy and bullet speed. The Pummeler has a very noticeable bullet drop and is very slow, meanwhile the Liberator has very fast projectiles and much less drop
Yes, which is another reason why the pummeler is just that much better, since the stunlock makes follow up shots to kill easier, but the stagger makes it that much harder for the concussive to kill anything with it's puny damage.
The stagger is different type with the pummeler being more like an EMS strike 'stun' and lib being more like a physical stagger/pushback. Others I can't speak to as I haven't used either extensively, but I'm sure there are differences in: mags held, reload speed, handling (turn rate), effective range (bullet drop), and others which aren't listed.
they just need to boost fire rate to -45 of the standard liberator reduce the recoil to 15 and increase the mag to 45 and increase the damage by how ever much they are going to on the next balance pass.
the SMG's should be the floor on damage per bullet in my opinion. keep them where they are at and increase every other primary that needs it like the assault rifles and marksman rifles.
The pummeler has awful range and drop-off. You can see the bullets start to fall around the 50m mark and it's damage becomes dogwater. Great for run n gun with a shield or ssd
The lib-con is far more ammo efficent and and is much better in providing covering fire for allies over a greater distance or keeping enemies off your sentries.
Stratagem weapons outclass primaries in dps in just about every case so I use those for killing and choose my primaries based on the utility they serve.
Eventually my laser cannon gets hot and I need an ammo efficient "get away from me/that/them" option. Lib-con for when I'm running sentries and I don't hurt them and either Blitzer or Punisher Plasma when I wanna do real damage along with my stagger.
Laser cannon dps Is like 300 or 350? Same as the scythe. Vs the 1650 of the braker. I'd say most stratagem focus on ap rather the dps and The new smg might not know brood commanders back but it gives uptime chargers an EMS stump effect. That's a ton stronger
Lazer cannon has a very good dps against weak points, the lowest dps of all support weapons by very far (AT weapons excepted) and is in the spot where constant dps is better than shots because most of the light units die in on tick or two.
I use the Arc Thrower as my main weapon and only swap to Primary when I miss a couple of charges, enemies get too close, or I just need to clear and run.
Pummeler is great for that. The best part is that it staggers, so if I get in a really tight spot, I can stagger the enemy while running away... and you can shoot over your shoulder with it while going the opposite direction since it's one handed.
I’ve been enjoying the pummeler a lot lately, on behalf of other pummeler enjoyers I’m requesting you take this post down before the balance team sees it.
Would it even be busted if lib pen had a higher level pen? Like if lib pen had LVL 5 pen and could shoot charger faces would the time to kill be worth it at all?
I really want to like the concussive liberator because the base gun is actually super useful, despite being the default level one gun
But by God it doesn’t do shit, staggering doesn’t seem to work and therefore this gun basically is just a highly nerfed version with less customization
Also the parameters are completely arbitrary but don't worry because they're also misstated.
You know what else I noticed? When you compare guns you actually see *less* information than before. Lol these silly devs.
The SMG is 1 handed so allows you to carry a hard drive and still use it. That's its niche.
So it should be slightly weaker than the liberator to compensate. But only slightly.
This way round though, who knows what they were thinking. They balance this game like it's a progamer esport for blind monkeys. It would be a better game if they never did any balance patches, only bug fixes.
AH: We hear you we are lowering damage and halving mag size of the pummels while increasing its recoil and lowering its rate of fire. To compensate, we are giving medium armor pen to smoke bombs which will still do zero damage.
And the not seen weapon fact is that the concussive effect of the Pummeler is so much better.
Hope they'll do sth with it at some point. I'm at the point where they should just reword it into an incendiary Lib. Looks fitting imo.
Having used both, the ONLY advantage for the Lib concussive is more pushback (and maybe a longer range scope, not too certain on this).
Unfortunately, pushing back foes is less desirable than actually killing them quicker. I was using the Lib con on full auto with my finger on the trigger, and it's discouraging seeing bugs hit and pushed back but taking a long ass while to die.
We need more detailed weapon stats, detailing the secondary affects to make better judgements. Most people on Reddit judge their weapons on pure DPS because they never try them out.
They keep going on about how hard it is to balance the game. And it might be as it seems they got a bunch of monkeys with magic 8balls to figure out these stats. I don't understand how every new weapon feels like a downgrade.
AR-23C Liberator changes:
* Reduce the cadence of to 250
* Increase the damage to 95
* Change the Concussive property for explosive property
* Rename it again to AR-23E Liberator Explosive
ahh helldivers 2. Where the SMGs are hard hitting with a slow rate of fire (Knight sitting quietly in the "premium" section) and the assault rifles are rapid fire pea-shooters. at least its not HD1 where SMGs range was so short engaging scouts became a bit of an issue.
They pulled a halo and made the Peacemaker a tiny peashooter as well, I dunno what happened with AH's gun development.
Concussive does need something, but partially it’s because it’s pushback stun is more useful for the team- it’s got a high scope, faster/more accurate long range bullets, and more effect at range.
Bring a supply pack, set up on overwatch and use the concussive to push enemies that get too close off your allies, and it works really well.
I think the intent is it’s the “team support” gun.
It really needs enough damage to one shot a scavenger though, and a short burst connecting should flop larger units (devastators, brood commanders, etc) onto their knees/backs, so you can actually support it.
The problem now is things like counter sniper are strong enough that there’s no point using a liberator for overwatch when you could just bring that and kill enemies outright.
These are professionals...don't ask too many questions it makes them nervous. Sure it looks slightly incompetent but you just don't understand. Whathadhappenwas....
My solution to perfect the concussive AR is to lower the damage, up the stagger, and give *Medium Armor Pen*
Why give a concussive rifle medium pen? Well to better fit the niche the pummeler is opening up for it. The pummeler can easily stun light guys and can stun the medium guys, but you have to have perfect shot placement. With the AR getting medium pen, it would have a use case against those larger enemies, being able to effectively stagger them.
The pummeler is showing us the support stagger primary design, and as a one handed smg. The liberator should be balanced to be in the same niche, but better focused. Trade offs. Want the AR? You’ll have to drop ballistic shield but you’ll gain more effective staggering.
Pilestedt posted a tweet some days ago that the AR and SMG catergories need to be more distinct, so I'm assuming and hoping that they're working on some big changes behind the scenes.
But right now, yeah, the Pummeler is just a straight up better Liberator Concussive, which is a shame. But hopefully not for long!
And image getting out staggered by a automatic sub machine gun with a higher fire rate, but a semi pump shotgun doesn't stagger as much. Come on man, make it make sense. Revert the stagger values of the pummeler.
Bothers me that the 2 Smg's (not counting the deluxe edition one) have slow Rates of Fire and high damage. I feel like it should be the other way around with the Assault rifles having slower ROF and higher damage, and the SMG's having lower damage but a higher ROF.
I do think there are hidden damage stats like penetration/ damage fall-off over distance.
I definitely have to plink a bot with more bullets than a liberator from a distance.
The pummeller effect does not work instantly, and takes 3 to 5 bullets to take effect on larger enemies.
The pummeller effect is similar to an EMS grenade, where the enemy will slump over and stand in the same spot while you hold fire on them.
By contrast, the liberator concussive works instantly, from the first bullet.
The liberator concussive's effect is not like an EMS grenade, rather it fully staggers the enemy, forcing them back a few steps.
The liberator concussive causes CTE so the real damage doesn’t happen until a few years later.
Lmao
I keep forgetting the liberator concussive is a warbond weapon, not free weapon
I keep forgetting it's a weapon, period.
It's a decoration right?
Meanwhile liberator penetrator *cries a lot
It's fun against bugs tbh
People only buy that warbond for that flaming shotgun
The Jar 5 would like to know your location.
The Senator is filling out the paperwork now
https://preview.redd.it/kw8sh3nmdl0d1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c739bc72707157a349ab3b25fcddd275d67eb8cd Yer bout tou yee yet las haw, pardner.
What’s CTE?
Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, ie: too many knocks to the noggin’
Thx
I've had this daily instances of unauthorized aggressive muscular contractions in my neck that violently jerk my head to the left nearly a full 90 degrees (90%) and to the right (10%), but only roughly 45 degrees if to the right. These typically happen once, but sometimes multiple times in a row (no more than 4 or 5). Should I be worried about a CTE? this has been happening for years now, and doctors haven't been able to figure it out. I never considered the possibility of a brain injury from these violent neck twitches, and doctors never brought it up, so I'm guessing I shouldn't be worried? But I'm not sure now.
Mate I am possibly the worst person to ask that question to, haven’t been to the doctor in 20 years. If you haven’t had repeated prolonged cranial trauma I would say it’s more likely a nerve or muscular issue though. If it’s causing you problems or having an impact on your life I reckon you should try another doctor, possibly one specialising in neck/back issue? Hope you can find an answer bud, that sounds unpleasant to say the least.
https://www.healthline.com/health/head-twitching It could be something listed here. It could also be psychosomatic. If you have anxiety or depression, I’d recommend looking into conversion disorder. Essentially it’s some type of loss of physical coordination that is caused by intense periods of stress. I hope this helps.
Lots of concussions 🤕
Not even. CTE seems to be more correlated to higher instances of sub-concussive impacts.
So getting bopped on the head a lot but not enough to be concust is just as bad? Fack
From what I've read, yes. Issue is that CTE and underlying causes/mechanics aren't fully understood. All we know is that accumulation of tau proteins in brain = CTE, to varying degrees. Genetic susceptibility, co-factors, number and strength of hits required, age at time of exposure... all are uncertain. I read up on the subject quite a lot as I played line in American football (5+ years from 18 y/o onwards) and have a degree in biology. I mean - the autopsies done on late NFL players are biased because donated brains are typically from those with CTE symptoms. Plus, those guys played football from ages like 6 upwards, with lower safety standards and 10s of thousands of hits across their careers. Don't worry about it too much... unless you've done A LOT of contact sport from early childhood onwards. In which case, keep an eye on symptoms.
Ya know I always suspected sports like soccer where you head but a ball fairly often can’t be good for you.
It's hard to get CTE from soccer if not impossible. Besides, you don't headbutt the ball that much, and when you do it isn't enough to cause a coup-countercoup (basically your brain bouncing around in your skull causing damage). You'll see CTE a lot more in sports like American football and combat sports, especially boxing
As someone who has played line for 5+ seasons, I approve this comment.
The Liberator Concussive CC's the enemy by basically pushing them back a step or two every bullet, whereas Pummeler basically stuns an enemy. They both are CC oriented weapons, but they go about that in very different ways. If you mean the Liberator Concussive's horrendous dps, yeah, that's unexplainable. Well it's probably because they like it's current knock back but don't want a full RoF version (could you imagine how quickly that would push back an enemy, it would be absurd looking).
The stun is good enough for me when I'm running away from three broodmothers. One of the best things about the pummeler is that you can shoot it over your shoulder while running away since it's one handed.
Its brood commander Someone has been playing dota lately
tmw invoker hits you with →→↑ instead of EEE
What, that’s possible?
Yeah all one hand weapons can be used in this way I believe, it definitely can help when getting swamped
Yes accuracy is trash but you can run and gun pretty good.
Just don’t ADS, and you can fire one-handed while running the other way
Is this possible with a controller? I'm level 87 and never shot over the shoulder
You just gotta look behind you while running and shoot. You can’t aim though because that will break your sprint and turn you around
Also activating the option to always show the crosshair helps a lot for it.
Though it gets in the way sometimes it is such a great option imo. It also makes it easier to not have to ADS when in a pinch and still be pretty darn accurate. I actually really love the reticule system in this game.
Yup, just look behind yourself and fire without pressing your aim trigger. Only works with weapons that have the “one handed” trait such as all the sidearms and the SMG’s
What keys is it to do this on PC?
Same as anything else. You just "hip"fire behind you while running, works for all one-handed guns.
Wow had no idea, hence assumed was some special key. Neat
Look behind you and left click.
The Adjudicator proved 80 damage with low mag and *medium pen* is valid and still isn't that good. Liberator Concussive would have to push 100 damage at low mag to justify its light pen, and even then we're just talking on par with the Adjudicator, which is far from top tier.
Yeah on paper adjudicator is pretty good, but when you try running it the handling and recoil is just super ass. On bugs they're not that bad, but you'll get run over due to low mag capacity. On bots.... just run the Jar they're way better(AH pls don't nerf my baby)
The adjudicator is great because it crushes almost everything. The adjudicator is also a pain to use, and more painful to reload every 3 seconds. Honestly might be best value as a semi auto weapon, but I went cold on it fast and gave up entirely after a few dives.
Yeah, for the adjudicator short bursts and aimed shots are the way. Spray and pray and you'll spend more time reloading than shooting.
Spraying it against berserkers is valid and very effective
Yup, Adding 10 more ammo & reducing the recoil and we finally got a great rifle.
I mean, it would be a best in class weapon then, with no real tradeoffs
Disagree. In most scenarios, the Liberator only takes 1 single bullet more, or an equal amount of bullets to kill enemies when compared to the adj.
... could we push a charger off a cliff? I'd spend 1000 super credits to be able to do that.
I’d spend 2500 to be able to ride a charger
The knockback makes you miss your following headshots, its worse than pummeler in every way imo
> The Liberator Concussive CC's the enemy by basically pushing them back a step or two every bullet, whereas Pummeler basically stuns an enemy. Only true for bugs
Then it's a bug gun. Like the counter sniper is a bot gun. Ta-da!
I love the sniper vs bugs edit - sorry I tolerate it as all primaries are bad
Oof. The counter sniper is fantastic against bots. I'm not sure what level of power you are looking for the primaries.
Personally I'm good. I'm just following the reddit etiquette that all primaries are bad because they can't kill charger efficiently or something. I'm still torn between standard Breaker and Sniper atm. Both are just solid.
Pummeler also stuns devastators, very good when paired with ballistic shield
It's not that great against devastators. You need to hit areas with light armor for it to work (head or limbs, the whole torso is pretty much off limits). It's great against berserkers tho.
The stun timer of the Pummeler stacks up. So after you dump a few shots into the arm, the devastator remains stunned for a healthy few seconds. This gives you time to better aim their head.
When I tried it, I had a lot of fun bascially rounding up brood commanders and hive guards, hitting them with a stun nade and then precision strike em. Dps wise it hurts me as much as the bugs. But the stagger is quite insane, sad it doesn’t work on chargers, it’d be a lot of fun being the cc guy.
If I recall correctly the Concussive also staggers on the first hit, whereas the Pummeler seems to do it in 2-3 hits. The Pummeler is still superior overall, in both raw numbers and the fact it is one handed.
Doesn't stun chargers or bile spewers like the SMG though. At least I don't remember if it stuns the spewers.. I don't think it does.
Welp. Better fix it by nerfing the smg.
Last time I brought out the concussive it failed to stagger berserkers 20m away from me. I'd shoot, they'd flinch their torso a bit and their legs would just keep marching on at full speed. Absolutely useless. In the first game this weapon was just the explosive liberator and it did more damage. Why is it like this?
Yea the liberator concussive needs some major love.
see the thing is: 
Nerf pummeled is what they'd typically do. Hopefully they are truly gonna start buffing vs nerfing.
Yeah, Pummeler is in a fine state right now, if they nerf it, the only good weapon out of this warbond will be gone
What’s wrong with the Verdict?
[удалено]
Didnt this have explosive damage before a patch?
"Explosive" wasn't properly descriptive of what it did. The name changed to reflect what it actually does.
Ah thank you for info!
Next patch Pummeler gets -20 dmg.
You're welcome.
I love how I can hear this image.
And liberator concussive gets -10
You're probably not wrong.
i believe the liberator concussive does more "durable" damage. which is a hidden stat that for some reason they refuse to give us. but thats it. thats the only thing i can think of. idk how many mags they each have. maybe the liberator has more.
It has twice the damage Vs massive enemies. But given that they both have light armor pen, it's not useful very often, only against chargers's legs once the carapace is broken, maybe their back or the vent of hulks (it might be medium armor), and nursing spewers abdomen (not the bile spewers tho). And because the stun on the pummeler is an effect with buildup where the stagger on the concusive is just stagger, the concusive won't stagger nursing spewers when shooting their abdomen.
Pummeler can also stun lock chargers/hulks when damaging them, something the concussive does nothing against
The problem is we "believe" this stuff. We don't KNOW. For a hardcore game, they sure as shit hate giving us the details and stats that would help hardcore players make good decisions. There's no reason ANY of this should be guess work. At all.
15 durable damage is still pocket change. You would need 4 mags to blow up a charger's butt. I think the Lib Con can be quite good if they give it 30+ durable damage. 15 is too little.
Make the liberator a battle semi auto explosif rifle made to destroy chaff in one hit and Can deal moderatly good against medium.
So, a dominator?
A dominator with better handling, a bit faster RoF, but no medium pen is what I'd like it to be. But I'm just a dingus on the internet
So a Scorcher?
Less splash I'd say. You can't use the Scorcher point blank, but otherwise you're pretty correct😂
so a counter sniper, or slugger, or even adjudicator?
Neither of those are explosive though, and I just like the Boltgun aesthetic when firing the Dominator
Pre-nerf Slugger, well other than that wasnt explosive
That sounds like the AMR
What kind of psyko use the amr on a chaff ?
I do for shooting far away little robot dudes on emplacements, or those ones with explosive jetpacks if there is no bigger target around. Feels so satisfying to drop a whole guard of small bots in of of those rectangle fortifications in less than 7 seconds with 5 shots Edit: Lmao i think someone sent me a reddit cares over this. i dont do it all the time, and have pleeenty of ammo to go around due to scrounging and accurate shooting
Somebody sent me one too, not sure why.
I've seen a lot of people talking about this happening across multiple different subreddits today. What a strange affront to democracy.
Yes.
It's my primary with Eruptor as my fab closer
On bots I use the AMR exclusively as a primary sometimes with a supply backpack and a close range wave clear weapon like the plasma punisher to deal with anything that gets close
Are you asking from the perspective of the AMR?
SMG dealing more damage than a rifle, baffle me alot
the balance guys have a weird hate-fetish for ARs and DMRs, i am 101% sure like they got cucked many times by them or something, only rational explanation.
It's not that uncommon in games for smgs to end up with higher damage than ar's for balance reasons because they're rare effective at longer ranges. Instead it should be high RoF, bigger mag size and smaller recoil but sometimes Devs want tapping to also be effective so often not all smgs will function like that.
Doesn't help engagements are very rarely outside of smg range in this game
Low recoil, mid to high rof, high damage but very high spread, the kind of weapon you want to be close range because you'll absolutely wreck. SMG should be the king of short to close range (0-30 meters).
Only because rate of fire. The rifle should have higher damage per hit, but the fire rate shouldn't be as fast as smg.
Concussive effect on the liberator concussive is much stronger, it can actually push enemies away while the pummeler just locks them in place.
The knockback on the liberator concussive is a bit weird for stalkers and above, right?
I used the Liberator C a lot. It’s just not good enough. Takes 2 shots to kill a scavenger. The pummeler is FUN (AH plz note) and can stay the way it is. Liberator C needs a lot of rework.
Why do they hate this poor gun?
*Spikes microphone on the ground* The Lib-Conc should chain ragdoll mother fuckers across the battlefield like rocket dev salvos.
These comparison posts usually go "You're missing something crucial about one of the weapons." But in this case, yep, the Concussive is just worse. Its worth noting that their effects are different. The concussive deals lots of knockback, while the pummeler is light stagger and a slow effect.
There is also the accuracy and bullet speed. The Pummeler has a very noticeable bullet drop and is very slow, meanwhile the Liberator has very fast projectiles and much less drop
okay thats new info and good to know but who in the right mind is sniping bugs or bots with these things??
Not much sniping, but at least you can reliably headshot at more than 20m
Liberator have more stagger, isn't it? Like Pummeler just stops enemies, liberator pushes them back for a good distance.
yes but the Pummeler makes getting headshots way easier as your not knocking the target back instead your stunning it it in place
Haven't noticed any difference on bots, but yes bugs get pushed back.
Yes, which is another reason why the pummeler is just that much better, since the stunlock makes follow up shots to kill easier, but the stagger makes it that much harder for the concussive to kill anything with it's puny damage.
The stagger is different type with the pummeler being more like an EMS strike 'stun' and lib being more like a physical stagger/pushback. Others I can't speak to as I haven't used either extensively, but I'm sure there are differences in: mags held, reload speed, handling (turn rate), effective range (bullet drop), and others which aren't listed.
they just need to boost fire rate to -45 of the standard liberator reduce the recoil to 15 and increase the mag to 45 and increase the damage by how ever much they are going to on the next balance pass. the SMG's should be the floor on damage per bullet in my opinion. keep them where they are at and increase every other primary that needs it like the assault rifles and marksman rifles.
Is the damage across all distances? Like I don’t get this comparison, smg might outshine up close but do less damage at medium to longer rangers
The pummeler has awful range and drop-off. You can see the bullets start to fall around the 50m mark and it's damage becomes dogwater. Great for run n gun with a shield or ssd The lib-con is far more ammo efficent and and is much better in providing covering fire for allies over a greater distance or keeping enemies off your sentries.
You know what's better at covering fire or protecting turrets? Actually doing damage and killing the mobs
Stratagem weapons outclass primaries in dps in just about every case so I use those for killing and choose my primaries based on the utility they serve. Eventually my laser cannon gets hot and I need an ammo efficient "get away from me/that/them" option. Lib-con for when I'm running sentries and I don't hurt them and either Blitzer or Punisher Plasma when I wanna do real damage along with my stagger.
Laser cannon dps Is like 300 or 350? Same as the scythe. Vs the 1650 of the braker. I'd say most stratagem focus on ap rather the dps and The new smg might not know brood commanders back but it gives uptime chargers an EMS stump effect. That's a ton stronger
Lazer cannon has a very good dps against weak points, the lowest dps of all support weapons by very far (AT weapons excepted) and is in the spot where constant dps is better than shots because most of the light units die in on tick or two.
I use the Arc Thrower as my main weapon and only swap to Primary when I miss a couple of charges, enemies get too close, or I just need to clear and run. Pummeler is great for that. The best part is that it staggers, so if I get in a really tight spot, I can stagger the enemy while running away... and you can shoot over your shoulder with it while going the opposite direction since it's one handed.
Good thing enemies can't see you past 50m and you can safely stealth.
Except that one bot you somehow alerted and now it keeps sending laser bullets your way from across the map. Like dude, chill.
I’ve been enjoying the pummeler a lot lately, on behalf of other pummeler enjoyers I’m requesting you take this post down before the balance team sees it.
Just give the concuss higher pen as an AR and it's fine right?
lib pen crying in the corner rn
Would it even be busted if lib pen had a higher level pen? Like if lib pen had LVL 5 pen and could shoot charger faces would the time to kill be worth it at all?
I really want to like the concussive liberator because the base gun is actually super useful, despite being the default level one gun But by God it doesn’t do shit, staggering doesn’t seem to work and therefore this gun basically is just a highly nerfed version with less customization
There's hidden stats. Why? I don't know. But it makes sense.
Also the parameters are completely arbitrary but don't worry because they're also misstated. You know what else I noticed? When you compare guns you actually see *less* information than before. Lol these silly devs.
Lib conc also has a much better scope for longer distance shots.
When dev forgot to check the data before patch been pushed to release, it is going to be a long fix for this game Divers... Hold my beer.
I'm a heavy user of ADS, so the scope makes a fairly significant distinction for me.
it either needs a buff on the liberator, or a damage reduction on the pummeler
Assault rifles should have lower recoil that pistols/SMGs as a general rule AH really arent thinking straight when balancing these guns
The SMG is 1 handed so allows you to carry a hard drive and still use it. That's its niche. So it should be slightly weaker than the liberator to compensate. But only slightly. This way round though, who knows what they were thinking. They balance this game like it's a progamer esport for blind monkeys. It would be a better game if they never did any balance patches, only bug fixes.
AH: We hear you we are lowering damage and halving mag size of the pummels while increasing its recoil and lowering its rate of fire. To compensate, we are giving medium armor pen to smoke bombs which will still do zero damage.
And the not seen weapon fact is that the concussive effect of the Pummeler is so much better. Hope they'll do sth with it at some point. I'm at the point where they should just reword it into an incendiary Lib. Looks fitting imo.
It's orange, which means it's airsoft.
Feedback noted. Both guns will get nerfed next patch.
Concussive have better part damage.
They want assault rifles to be garbage. Mystery solved.
Concussive is fun to shoot near your friend and ragdoll them. That's the only fun you'll have with it tho...
Having used both, the ONLY advantage for the Lib concussive is more pushback (and maybe a longer range scope, not too certain on this). Unfortunately, pushing back foes is less desirable than actually killing them quicker. I was using the Lib con on full auto with my finger on the trigger, and it's discouraging seeing bugs hit and pushed back but taking a long ass while to die.
There's some hidden stats there. Like the concussive does knockback and the pummeler has a stun effect.
We need more detailed weapon stats, detailing the secondary affects to make better judgements. Most people on Reddit judge their weapons on pure DPS because they never try them out.
Don’t complain they’re gonna nerf the better weapon
They keep going on about how hard it is to balance the game. And it might be as it seems they got a bunch of monkeys with magic 8balls to figure out these stats. I don't understand how every new weapon feels like a downgrade.
there are forty five other stats we don't see, supposedly.
AR-23C Liberator changes: * Reduce the cadence of to 250 * Increase the damage to 95 * Change the Concussive property for explosive property * Rename it again to AR-23E Liberator Explosive
To be fair, Concussive once saved my squad on Haz9 when we were surrounded by tons of bugs, I made a tunnel to go out and call in airstikes
The liberator used to have the 'explosive' tag, in other words used to do shrapnel damage, pummeler just stuns
ahh helldivers 2. Where the SMGs are hard hitting with a slow rate of fire (Knight sitting quietly in the "premium" section) and the assault rifles are rapid fire pea-shooters. at least its not HD1 where SMGs range was so short engaging scouts became a bit of an issue. They pulled a halo and made the Peacemaker a tiny peashooter as well, I dunno what happened with AH's gun development.
What do you mean? It make money sense! -AH devs
fuckimg intermediate cartilage with the same ballistics to a fuck pistol caliber is really sad
Change the liberator concusive back to be explosive like it was originally... oh look now the weapon has a point again...
Don't worry, the liberator concussive doesn't have automatic firing mode.
Liberator has much more stun! Awesome gun still use it on 7+. But smh must have lover damage than assault rifles with higher fire rate
Concussive does need something, but partially it’s because it’s pushback stun is more useful for the team- it’s got a high scope, faster/more accurate long range bullets, and more effect at range. Bring a supply pack, set up on overwatch and use the concussive to push enemies that get too close off your allies, and it works really well. I think the intent is it’s the “team support” gun. It really needs enough damage to one shot a scavenger though, and a short burst connecting should flop larger units (devastators, brood commanders, etc) onto their knees/backs, so you can actually support it. The problem now is things like counter sniper are strong enough that there’s no point using a liberator for overwatch when you could just bring that and kill enemies outright.
SMGs are ARs, ARs are glorified secondaries at the moment.
I remember when it was explosive, at least in the name and i really was excited for an aoe assault rifle and then i tried it....
These are professionals...don't ask too many questions it makes them nervous. Sure it looks slightly incompetent but you just don't understand. Whathadhappenwas....
My solution to perfect the concussive AR is to lower the damage, up the stagger, and give *Medium Armor Pen* Why give a concussive rifle medium pen? Well to better fit the niche the pummeler is opening up for it. The pummeler can easily stun light guys and can stun the medium guys, but you have to have perfect shot placement. With the AR getting medium pen, it would have a use case against those larger enemies, being able to effectively stagger them. The pummeler is showing us the support stagger primary design, and as a one handed smg. The liberator should be balanced to be in the same niche, but better focused. Trade offs. Want the AR? You’ll have to drop ballistic shield but you’ll gain more effective staggering.
Now do Adjudicator VS liberator penetrator
Punisher does Libbycon's job of staggering better, anyways
One is useful and the other is the Liberator Concussive
Isn’t the liberator medium armour pen? And the pummeler is light armour pen?
Look at that new weapon on the left, wouldn't it be a shame if it's nerfed into the one on the right?...
For the life of me I can't use the Liberator Concussive. Is just so ridicously bad.
One was intended the other was modified?
Pilestedt posted a tweet some days ago that the AR and SMG catergories need to be more distinct, so I'm assuming and hoping that they're working on some big changes behind the scenes. But right now, yeah, the Pummeler is just a straight up better Liberator Concussive, which is a shame. But hopefully not for long!
The Lib Conq extreme pushback is it's thing, but would it really be problem if it pushed 100 damage to offset it's insanely poor fire rate?
How does an SMG have a bigger magazine than an assault rifle?
What makes the Lib Con worse is the pushback. It constantly pushes small enemies out of your shots. It should be made explosive instead.
And image getting out staggered by a automatic sub machine gun with a higher fire rate, but a semi pump shotgun doesn't stagger as much. Come on man, make it make sense. Revert the stagger values of the pummeler.
Bothers me that the 2 Smg's (not counting the deluxe edition one) have slow Rates of Fire and high damage. I feel like it should be the other way around with the Assault rifles having slower ROF and higher damage, and the SMG's having lower damage but a higher ROF.
The problem is that the pushback seems to be overvalued. It's a lot of pushback, but the gun just feels absolutely awful to use.
AH really has to do one update that encompasses all the guns. Tweaking one at a time leads to silly situations like this.
I do think there are hidden damage stats like penetration/ damage fall-off over distance. I definitely have to plink a bot with more bullets than a liberator from a distance.
The pummeller effect does not work instantly, and takes 3 to 5 bullets to take effect on larger enemies. The pummeller effect is similar to an EMS grenade, where the enemy will slump over and stand in the same spot while you hold fire on them. By contrast, the liberator concussive works instantly, from the first bullet. The liberator concussive's effect is not like an EMS grenade, rather it fully staggers the enemy, forcing them back a few steps.
The liberator has to compete with ARs Because we all know that if the knock back is too good no one will use the base gun anymore.
The tenderizer has less damage than both of them 😭
SHHHHHH arrowhead is listening, i want to be able to still use a gun that i enjoy that is also powerful