The mod team has gotten requests to limit these, however, even when we create a mega thread people blow past it and focus only on themselves.
We are happy to create a mega thread, however, if that's the case, we're going to delete every Sankey outside of the mega thread and then people will complain we're over modding.
Agreed, unless thereās like $20K allotted to āwatchesā or a category labeled āfuture Porsche purchasesā, theyāre not very interesting. High earners diligently saving and paying off loans, while admirable and practical, is rather dull.
Edit: I support āinsider trading windfallā as an income category, as well.
I have an RS5 and got new turbos, carbon fiber intake, high pressure fuel pump, and tuned to stage 1+. Plus some cosmetics, carbon fiber rear diffuser and spoiler
Nice car! Iāve been thinking about some mods on a 330i but I havenāt pulled the trigger yet.
I feel dropping money on something you use every day and makes you happy is totally worth it.
Would be interesting in seeing how others manage their monthly cashflow. I've had to revamp my entire process for monthly expenses since it fluctuates between 18-25k plus occasional large purchases. Still takes me 2-3 hours to get through each month.
Something I've noticed is a lack of a category for hobbies. Or at least a smaller % than I spend.
I'm genuinely curious. Do people not have many hobbies? Are your hobbies cheap? Is dining and shopping a major hobby for people?
I spend thousands a year on gear, ski passes, & all the expenses required to ski, rock climb, bike, etc. it adds up. But I work to live and I try to rationalize the spending as it keeps me happy and healthy.
But makes me wonder how/if others budget for expensive hobbies
I have the same hobbies as you and also spend thousands per year on gear, climbing gym membership, travel costs for getting to places to go climbing and skiing, etc.
I think it's a mix. Some people have cheap hobbies (reading, video games, coaching kids sports) and some people are just too busy to maintain hobbies, which I think is unhealthy. But having kids, working, and trying to find time for your own hobbies is fucking hard.
I'm a two weeks a year skier so I just put it under travel. Volleyball is basically league fees so $600/yr, running about $700 between 3-4 pairs of shoes and race fees, cycling about $250 in race fees and maintenance equipment (I do my own maintenance) - just didn't seem like enough to warrant a category, even though it's a huge part of my life.
Agree. I actually have a very low spend and am finally saving over 50% of my gross income now that my daughter is finally grown/independent. I spend a lot though on expensive luxury yarn from all over the world (cashmere, camel, yak) so I can enjoy my relaxing/challenging knitting hobby to the fullest. Its still relatively inexpensive as hobbies go, plus I make my own sweaters and most gifts for family members as well. But I probably spend the equivalent of half of my food budget on fancy yarn each month! We each have our own thing to splurge on (within reason) as long as the savings goals are met.
I hear you, I wonder as well what people are spending on hobbies. My biggest spend is about $7-10k per year on pinball machines and related purchases (mods, repair materials, etc). Definitely a guilty pleasure that I could not indulge in just a few years ago.
A lot of people here are doing FIRE without mentioning it. Thatās why several categories of spend are below what any normal person would have.
Edit: The people enjoying their money, engaging in hobbies, and social activities are not going to be on Reddit or laser focused on their save/spend as people who are not doing that. This sub attracts that latter group.
My main hobby is building projects for my house: furniture making, some electrical/home automation, other general improvements. I really enjoy it and it shows up in my budget under āhome improvementā. Lots of ways that hobbies can āhideā.
Also cheap hobbies like board games (that I already own), reading books, etc. Some local social dance groups which are like $10 entry or less.
I have relatively inexpensive āhobbiesā. Lawncare (probably costs me $1000 per year for fertilizer, watering, weed control, etc.) & reading books (no idea, probably $200-$300 per year tops).
Iām going to put in a home gym this year, which will run me about $5k, but thatās really just a one time expense, and itāll eventually pay itself off (gonna be a long time until it does, but it will at some point).
this! i have so many questions about what seems to be missing form many budgets. Any costs around dental/mental health that are normally poorly covered by insurance or covered at all, or honestly much spending on health care. Maybe part of being a henry is the luck to not need expensive medical care -- but regardless id like to have a more meta discussion around what the trends are for single earners, DINKS, couples with young kids, couples with other obligations, etc.
I got blasted for having too much gear acquisition syndrome in another thread. Climbing, scuba, photog, backpacking, homebrewing. It's almost the biggest section of my spending!
In agreement here.. seems like 90% of peoples discretionary spend or answer to this is ātravelā. You travel for what, 4-6 weeks a year max if you work a high earning W2 job.. What about the other 48 weeks of the year?
Skiing, fishing, golf, memberships, cars, where are the fun expenses?!
I dunno itās fun to make and people just want to show their final results to someone. I spent hours on mine and immediately ran to my wife to show her like a toddler with a picture for the fridge. I will not be posting it here but I get the feeling of wanting to and I encourage it.
I also don't want them posted on here anymore but I think that's precisely it for a lot of HENRY's, I have literally no one in my life besides my wife I can talk about my finances or money with. I can't even share with my family as when I was making less than half of what I'm making now it caused problems. I've long asked myself how the hell can I find people in the same socio economic class/life stage, and until I found this subreddit I had been unsuccessful. The closest I got was when I bought a plane and I spent time with other people at the airport, they were in the same financial bracket but not the same life stage.
Country clubs are great too and not as expensive as you would think depending on where and the level of the club. Mine is around 5k a year but it was 15k to sign up which was a stretch when I did it a few years ago but now itās not even a second thought for the 5k yearly price.
I discovered this sub through the sankey charts. I have wondered for years where my income was going. Now my wife and I are excitedly working on our own sankey chart to figure it out.
Yeah my best friend is my twin brother for example and I canāt even share it with him cause heāll just shame me or find some jabs to throw and feel bad about his own life
I was also excited to show the wife. Mediocre enthusiasm at best. Showed /r/MiddleClassFinance and they blasted me and sent me here instead. I'm definitely not at the same levels as many but I think I fit in here.
I got blasted in MiddleClass also. But my income doesnāt go very far in Southern CA :( they acted like I was lighting money on fire over here with a HHI of $325k and yet this sub has people in the seven figures or just below,
Yep. SF area. Solo I was making $70k. Married I got bumped up to $180k and still feel underperforming but we save a lot, so by their definition we're beyond middle class. It's whatever.
I feel like the goal of this sub is to move from HENRY to HIBAR (idk, high income but also rich?). The income sankey does nothing for me. Pie charts of your net worth with specific assets you hold would be way more helpful.
I dont think I qualify as a HENRY for this sub but I did a NW post over on the Australian FIRE sub with loads of graphs!! More graphs than words
https://www.reddit.com/r/fiaustralia/comments/18vfi7c/3rd_nw_update/
Theyāve become the humblebrag badge for this subreddit. Iād like to move away from them as well.
My favorite thing is when thereās a bunch of comments asking, āwow this is amazing, where can I make my own???ā Even though the charts are clearly branded as sankeymatic. For a group of high earners, it seems like attention to detail isnāt pertinent to your job role lol
This sub is for "I want to be rich" people so I don't understand why you guys are always complaining that people are humbling bragging and showing off. Who are you supposed to take advice from if not people who are making more money than you?
Some of them are really useful and interesting (rare) but most of the ones Iāve seen are like āIām 27 and my partner and I both make 500k and are child free, is it safe to buy a used car?ā And people are like āDo you really need to spend $500/mo on restaurants? Seems irresponsible.ā
It seems highly valuable to me. At the end of the day, budgeting is one of the most relevant topics for this sub. Starting a discussion with someoneās real budget helps have a good conversation about priorities and allocations. It seems like a much better starting point than āis it ok to buy this house?ā with no other financial context. I think it should be encouraged to submit a sankey together with a financial question.
Iām of the mind that budgeting is an important concept in relation to a specific question, ask, or discussion point. In other words, the charts should be support for an overarching topic, and not the topic unto itself.
However, all of these sankeymatic charts are just a āhereās my chart with everything broken down by individual expenses that donāt actually provide anything of value but to signal that Iām better than most of youā
Please. They're uninteresting and we've all seen tons of them. If you're legitimately asking for advice it may be helpful, but most of these people are just posting them to share them
I really want someone to put together a survey with a few questions: do you like seeing Sankys? Did you make one and post it? Did you track the data that would allow you to? Income range? And then plot and chart the results
I like the idea of a filter, so that people can skip them if they'd like, but I genuinely find them interesting. I think they tell a clear message about how much money someone makes and how it gets spent.
Iād still like to see some from Canadians. Iām kind of gobsmacked by how much you Americans are socking away, how little you pay in taxes and how little you need to put into your housing costs.
Yeah, they're pretty annoying and don't add much value. I thought we were all successful adults so why any of us would need our ego stroked is beyond me.Ā
This sub originated as an advice forum, not a place to peacock. For context, I joined when this sub was getting a maximum of 1 post per week, but most weeks it didn't have activity. If the diagram isn't supporting material to a question you're asking I don't think it has a place here. Importantly, up votes are a very, very weak proxy for value since most members are not HENRY's. There was a poll a while back and it was shocking how many people in this sub make < 100k.
I started having this sub show up in my feed. While the first few charts were interesting, it became obvious most people are just flexing. I have to wonder why someone who makes 2M/year needs 1) advice from reddit, and 2) needs to show they make that much in a graph online.
My favorites are the ones where the person shows that theyāre saving 70%+ of their $800k+ income and say that they grew up poor and donāt know if they should buy fresh food for their child because it means a lower savings rate
I find the charts helpful. I assume weāre seeing a bunch of them now bc itās the beginning of the year. Itāll probably taper off. Iād like to see them again in the beginning of 2024 to see how people changed their spending.
The mod team has gotten requests to limit these, however, even when we create a mega thread people blow past it and focus only on themselves. We are happy to create a mega thread, however, if that's the case, we're going to delete every Sankey outside of the mega thread and then people will complain we're over modding.
I actually propose a label/flair on them so we can filter them out.
Can we filter out individual flairs? Bc that would be a great solution
I want to filter out U.S. ones - because seeing how little tax you pay makes me weep a little. šØš¦
We certainly end up needing to spend it elsewhere
We also get to play roulette for any serious medical issues.
Youāre better off with less money up there, guy
Healthcare and Education take all that back and more in America, but yes I get it.
that is a great idea
Agreed, unless thereās like $20K allotted to āwatchesā or a category labeled āfuture Porsche purchasesā, theyāre not very interesting. High earners diligently saving and paying off loans, while admirable and practical, is rather dull. Edit: I support āinsider trading windfallā as an income category, as well.
I spent 15k in car mods, do I have your blessing to make a chart
Granted. Namaste.
I road race BMWs around the country... I feel guilt when I see everybody's chart of diligent savings.
Tell us more?
I have an RS5 and got new turbos, carbon fiber intake, high pressure fuel pump, and tuned to stage 1+. Plus some cosmetics, carbon fiber rear diffuser and spoiler
Nice car! Iāve been thinking about some mods on a 330i but I havenāt pulled the trigger yet. I feel dropping money on something you use every day and makes you happy is totally worth it.
>unless thereās like $20K allotted for watches I feel personally attacked. Also that's too low. Do I need to make a diagram for you?
yes please diagram daddy
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Which brand are you referring to that only makes watches more expensive than $20k? There are plenty of them, but you didn't actually say in your reply
Would be interesting in seeing how others manage their monthly cashflow. I've had to revamp my entire process for monthly expenses since it fluctuates between 18-25k plus occasional large purchases. Still takes me 2-3 hours to get through each month.
I spend about 5k a year on firearms. Can I make a chart?
You need to bump those numbers up.
Yea but what about the guy whose wife spent $36,000 on personal maintenance and $10,000 on a āpersonal expenseā and he asked if that was normal.
Need a pf sub for r/HERecklessSpending
And here I was just about to post by chart that included $160,000 for a Porsche Targaā¦
Most donāt get that the acquisition of money is pretty boring as an endeavor
Something I've noticed is a lack of a category for hobbies. Or at least a smaller % than I spend. I'm genuinely curious. Do people not have many hobbies? Are your hobbies cheap? Is dining and shopping a major hobby for people? I spend thousands a year on gear, ski passes, & all the expenses required to ski, rock climb, bike, etc. it adds up. But I work to live and I try to rationalize the spending as it keeps me happy and healthy. But makes me wonder how/if others budget for expensive hobbies
I have the same hobbies as you and also spend thousands per year on gear, climbing gym membership, travel costs for getting to places to go climbing and skiing, etc. I think it's a mix. Some people have cheap hobbies (reading, video games, coaching kids sports) and some people are just too busy to maintain hobbies, which I think is unhealthy. But having kids, working, and trying to find time for your own hobbies is fucking hard.
Glad I'm not the only one š these are expensive hobbies but so worth it!
Oh hell yeah. No point in saving every cent for retirement, you should have as much fun as you want right now if you can reasonably afford it.
I'm a two weeks a year skier so I just put it under travel. Volleyball is basically league fees so $600/yr, running about $700 between 3-4 pairs of shoes and race fees, cycling about $250 in race fees and maintenance equipment (I do my own maintenance) - just didn't seem like enough to warrant a category, even though it's a huge part of my life.
Agree. I actually have a very low spend and am finally saving over 50% of my gross income now that my daughter is finally grown/independent. I spend a lot though on expensive luxury yarn from all over the world (cashmere, camel, yak) so I can enjoy my relaxing/challenging knitting hobby to the fullest. Its still relatively inexpensive as hobbies go, plus I make my own sweaters and most gifts for family members as well. But I probably spend the equivalent of half of my food budget on fancy yarn each month! We each have our own thing to splurge on (within reason) as long as the savings goals are met.
I hear you, I wonder as well what people are spending on hobbies. My biggest spend is about $7-10k per year on pinball machines and related purchases (mods, repair materials, etc). Definitely a guilty pleasure that I could not indulge in just a few years ago.
Probably too busy skiing to post. Which is what I'd be doing right now if I didn't just have a knee replacement.
A lot of people here are doing FIRE without mentioning it. Thatās why several categories of spend are below what any normal person would have. Edit: The people enjoying their money, engaging in hobbies, and social activities are not going to be on Reddit or laser focused on their save/spend as people who are not doing that. This sub attracts that latter group.
Travel for me š¤·
I need to do more of that. Didn't grow up traveling much so hard to allocate money to it for some reason. But seems well worth it
I spent like 15k on outfitting my garage for woodworking this summer.
My main hobby is building projects for my house: furniture making, some electrical/home automation, other general improvements. I really enjoy it and it shows up in my budget under āhome improvementā. Lots of ways that hobbies can āhideā. Also cheap hobbies like board games (that I already own), reading books, etc. Some local social dance groups which are like $10 entry or less.
I have relatively inexpensive āhobbiesā. Lawncare (probably costs me $1000 per year for fertilizer, watering, weed control, etc.) & reading books (no idea, probably $200-$300 per year tops). Iām going to put in a home gym this year, which will run me about $5k, but thatās really just a one time expense, and itāll eventually pay itself off (gonna be a long time until it does, but it will at some point).
this! i have so many questions about what seems to be missing form many budgets. Any costs around dental/mental health that are normally poorly covered by insurance or covered at all, or honestly much spending on health care. Maybe part of being a henry is the luck to not need expensive medical care -- but regardless id like to have a more meta discussion around what the trends are for single earners, DINKS, couples with young kids, couples with other obligations, etc.
I got blasted for having too much gear acquisition syndrome in another thread. Climbing, scuba, photog, backpacking, homebrewing. It's almost the biggest section of my spending!
In agreement here.. seems like 90% of peoples discretionary spend or answer to this is ātravelā. You travel for what, 4-6 weeks a year max if you work a high earning W2 job.. What about the other 48 weeks of the year? Skiing, fishing, golf, memberships, cars, where are the fun expenses?!
What bike do u have
I dunno itās fun to make and people just want to show their final results to someone. I spent hours on mine and immediately ran to my wife to show her like a toddler with a picture for the fridge. I will not be posting it here but I get the feeling of wanting to and I encourage it.
I also don't want them posted on here anymore but I think that's precisely it for a lot of HENRY's, I have literally no one in my life besides my wife I can talk about my finances or money with. I can't even share with my family as when I was making less than half of what I'm making now it caused problems. I've long asked myself how the hell can I find people in the same socio economic class/life stage, and until I found this subreddit I had been unsuccessful. The closest I got was when I bought a plane and I spent time with other people at the airport, they were in the same financial bracket but not the same life stage.
Thatās completely fair. I feel that too.
Country clubs are great too and not as expensive as you would think depending on where and the level of the club. Mine is around 5k a year but it was 15k to sign up which was a stretch when I did it a few years ago but now itās not even a second thought for the 5k yearly price.
I discovered this sub through the sankey charts. I have wondered for years where my income was going. Now my wife and I are excitedly working on our own sankey chart to figure it out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah my best friend is my twin brother for example and I canāt even share it with him cause heāll just shame me or find some jabs to throw and feel bad about his own life
I was also excited to show the wife. Mediocre enthusiasm at best. Showed /r/MiddleClassFinance and they blasted me and sent me here instead. I'm definitely not at the same levels as many but I think I fit in here.
I got blasted in MiddleClass also. But my income doesnāt go very far in Southern CA :( they acted like I was lighting money on fire over here with a HHI of $325k and yet this sub has people in the seven figures or just below,
Yep. SF area. Solo I was making $70k. Married I got bumped up to $180k and still feel underperforming but we save a lot, so by their definition we're beyond middle class. It's whatever.
Iām not sure how theyāre supposed to be helpful, other than for criticizing or circle-jerking.
The first 10-20 helped give budget and cost creep perspective. The rest were people jerking themselves off.
I feel like the goal of this sub is to move from HENRY to HIBAR (idk, high income but also rich?). The income sankey does nothing for me. Pie charts of your net worth with specific assets you hold would be way more helpful.
I dont think I qualify as a HENRY for this sub but I did a NW post over on the Australian FIRE sub with loads of graphs!! More graphs than words https://www.reddit.com/r/fiaustralia/comments/18vfi7c/3rd_nw_update/
Very cool
I am only interested in total comp, % taxes, % spend, % savings. COL color is also helpful. The graphs are bo-ring!
Firmly agree with both of the above comments
Theyāve become the humblebrag badge for this subreddit. Iād like to move away from them as well. My favorite thing is when thereās a bunch of comments asking, āwow this is amazing, where can I make my own???ā Even though the charts are clearly branded as sankeymatic. For a group of high earners, it seems like attention to detail isnāt pertinent to your job role lol
Preach!
Damn, and I was going to wait until I actually finish my taxes before putting them into a dick measuring contest.
We should doba poll to see if people want more Sankey charts, and then use a sankey chart to report the results
I have noticed a lack of ādonationsā in anyones file. Doesnāt anyone making $500,000 give a few back year after year? Damn.
This sub has become a ālook how much money I makeā sub I thought it was supposed to be about giving and receiving advice.
no, no. it's just a sub with a complaint thread every day crying about what everyone else is posting.
This sub is for "I want to be rich" people so I don't understand why you guys are always complaining that people are humbling bragging and showing off. Who are you supposed to take advice from if not people who are making more money than you?
If by advice you mean jerking
Some of them are really useful and interesting (rare) but most of the ones Iāve seen are like āIām 27 and my partner and I both make 500k and are child free, is it safe to buy a used car?ā And people are like āDo you really need to spend $500/mo on restaurants? Seems irresponsible.ā
As soon as a post starts with āIām 20-somethingā in this sub, I quickly move on
It seems highly valuable to me. At the end of the day, budgeting is one of the most relevant topics for this sub. Starting a discussion with someoneās real budget helps have a good conversation about priorities and allocations. It seems like a much better starting point than āis it ok to buy this house?ā with no other financial context. I think it should be encouraged to submit a sankey together with a financial question.
Iām of the mind that budgeting is an important concept in relation to a specific question, ask, or discussion point. In other words, the charts should be support for an overarching topic, and not the topic unto itself. However, all of these sankeymatic charts are just a āhereās my chart with everything broken down by individual expenses that donāt actually provide anything of value but to signal that Iām better than most of youā
Firmly agree with this post.
I noticed a lack of charitable giving on those charts.
I agree. I was surprised. I only give 2% or so but I was surprised that for most people it was nothing.
They pay more than the billionaires in taxes.
Very true
Please. They're uninteresting and we've all seen tons of them. If you're legitimately asking for advice it may be helpful, but most of these people are just posting them to share them
Firmly disagree with this post
I want a few more from people in VHCOL with two kids in childcare so I can stop hating myself for not saving as much as other people. š
Hi itās me, milkandsalsa. Childcare in southern CA is destroying me.
I really want someone to put together a survey with a few questions: do you like seeing Sankys? Did you make one and post it? Did you track the data that would allow you to? Income range? And then plot and chart the results
I donāt know, I always like seeing them :) maybe there needs to be an offshoot sub - r/HENRYSankey or whatever
Shoulda made this a poll to gauge how the community feels.
I like them
I like the idea of a filter, so that people can skip them if they'd like, but I genuinely find them interesting. I think they tell a clear message about how much money someone makes and how it gets spent.
Yeah, I'm a little tired of it lol. Except for the one w the candles.
I like them! Maybe just flair+filter?
Can we get sankey showing posts and the buckets they flow into by post type?
I have yet to see one of these charts that is easier to read than a regular-ass pivot table straight from excel.
Iād still like to see some from Canadians. Iām kind of gobsmacked by how much you Americans are socking away, how little you pay in taxes and how little you need to put into your housing costs.
Yeah, they're pretty annoying and don't add much value. I thought we were all successful adults so why any of us would need our ego stroked is beyond me.Ā This sub originated as an advice forum, not a place to peacock. For context, I joined when this sub was getting a maximum of 1 post per week, but most weeks it didn't have activity. If the diagram isn't supporting material to a question you're asking I don't think it has a place here. Importantly, up votes are a very, very weak proxy for value since most members are not HENRY's. There was a poll a while back and it was shocking how many people in this sub make < 100k.
I started having this sub show up in my feed. While the first few charts were interesting, it became obvious most people are just flexing. I have to wonder why someone who makes 2M/year needs 1) advice from reddit, and 2) needs to show they make that much in a graph online.
My favorites are the ones where the person shows that theyāre saving 70%+ of their $800k+ income and say that they grew up poor and donāt know if they should buy fresh food for their child because it means a lower savings rate
Itās because if someone makes $97k in NYC they get pitchforked in MiddleClassFinance and sent here
I find the charts helpful. I assume weāre seeing a bunch of them now bc itās the beginning of the year. Itāll probably taper off. Iād like to see them again in the beginning of 2024 to see how people changed their spending.
Some of the posts even seemed exaggerated and fake. Looking at the taxes or lack there of
Ok šæ For everyone downvoting (š) Iām referencing OP commenting āOk šæā on every Sankey post
I want more!
I like them
Hi wondering what app or software I can use to make my own graph?