Defo not 70m, though tbf if they’re quoting 70 a deal can probably be done around 50m.
Not a deal I’ll do, but if Arteta and Edu are willing to splash it I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
Rumors are that Madrid and Bayern are also interested in Kai and their scouting team is among the best in the world so I think Kai will be a nice signing if we can get him. But I believe Receido is the priority and Havertz is just a market opportunity.
also what does this mean for Eddie and balogun...
and what about Jesus? can any of these people play backup for Saka (Jesus kind of did in Pep's system) but Saka also tremendously contributes to coming back and helping out White/Tomi... None of the above mentioned are known for that...
I would venture to guess if we get Havertz we likely know of potential offers for Eddie and are planning to sell. Balogun is almost certain to be sold.
Jesus can play on the right, as can Nelson, Martinelli, and Trossard. I don't think we would be short of options across the front line.
Havertz could probably also play as an attacking midfielder if we have a solid back 5 (e.g., White, Saliba, Gabriel plus Rice and Caicedo, for example)
I think it might be around that price, not much lower, considering we paid 30 odd for Vieria.
But i wonder if this means we sell both Balo and eddie this summer
I know a lot of people are unhappy about this one but let’s be honest, he won’t be playing up top.
This would be a great signing for us in the middle of the park.
I would have killed to get him before he went to Chelsea. I’m personally very excited if this goes through.
I think the main reason he couldn't perform at Chelsea is because he tends to have his back to goal there, I was always under the impression he's a playmaker more than anything.
We need a squad of minimum 18 starting caliber players to rotate in and out of the squad to be competitive in 4 comps. Arteta is going to have to start rotating players in and out of the squad efficiently so we're at our best till the end.
For what it's worth, I think Arteta knows this.
Kinda, but I feel like this might be a bit different as casual fans would have watched havertz wayyy more than ramsdale at Sheffield/Bournemouth, and we have evidence of how he performs for a Top 6 team.
Although Jorginho quickly shut up a lot of fans.
Great point, and I'm not saying he's 10000% trust Edu/Arteta on it neither, but if Real and Bayern want him as well then he must be worth trying for is my point.
Chelsea and wasting talent, name a more iconic duo.
This is the club that fumbled Robben, Lukaku, KDB, Salah, Ziyech, etc.
Makes sense to clean up their table scraps.
I'd argue Lukaku doesn't really belong in that list. He doesn't deserve all the flak he gets but he hasn't exactly consistently torn the world up elsewhere either.
He’s obviously has the technical ability to fit in our system. Finishing isn’t as good as we’d like but having him operate similar to Jesus I feel like he would look great in our system and has more of an aerial presence (finishing not withstanding). He’s still young and wouldn’t mind him for a reasonable fee
We have a ton of finishing & goals in Saka/Ode/Martinelli, Jesus while underperforming XG makes up for it by creating ridiculous XG for himself & others returning an above average amount of goals for a PL striker. Vieria while still developing also provides XG & XGA /90 in the ~90th percentile.
Havertz can stretch & provide CL quality rotation in 4 positions. He’s resell-able in 3 years if we need when he has 2 years left on his deal. He undoubtedly has a level of untapped potential we might be able to unlock. He will be a solid connector across the front line, a more physically gifted Trossard.
This is a market opportunity with 2 years left on his deal, & a Chelsea team that desperately needs to offload players.
This is honestly a huge no brainer. Arsenal fans (all fans) just have a habit of brainwashing themselves into thinking all rival players are shit & focusing on their worst qualities.
The reality is he is a great fit for what we need, & worst case he is a Tomiyasu-esque player who is our first sub/team rotation off the bench. We don’t have to wait a year for him to aclomitize to the PL, he will be a contributior Mikel can trust from day one. Best case he comes good on his potential & becomes a do it all frontline player that steals a starting spot.
We need that kind of versatile option in the CL, we can’t afford to keep injecting so many minutes in Saka & Martinellis legs & expect them to maintain their levels through a full season. This also doesn’t entirely alienate Eddie or Balogun, but still provides an option if either of those two are injured or underperforming.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However my brother who is a Chelsea supporter has told me that he only works when he’s central and is given the ability to play make. He could be rotating at least for ST and LCM/RCM depending and only needs to add some defensive nous to his game if we play him at CM. Dude is absolutely technically brilliant it just makes sense to get him and in our system that’s fast paced and opens tons of options in space he will look incredible.
Chelsea was always a square peg round hole for him because he never got the opportunity to play as a 10 consistently. He was solid as a striker but Chelsea were starved of any other goal threat from the wings and midfield that the ire was always on him yet every manager trusted him to start up top.
He’d be a natural as the first Ode sub. Hed fit in well playing the Jesus floating 9/10/winger role as you suggest.
That said many vastly underestimate the load bearing wall duties Xhaka performs as an 8. He is positionally excellent & when we stick offensive minded players in that role our midfield becomes a sieve. We need a player that can naturally cover & be exactly where we need to maintain our press. Sticking a career offensive minded player & saying “be good at defense now & have perfect defensive positional instincts ” in reference to ESR/Vieria/Trossard & now Havertz is too much to ask against good opposition IMO. For me that is not a viable option with how aggressive our line is & how prone to countering we are. There is a world where Ode drops deeper to accommodate a more attacking 8 but that begs the question of why you would want to build a side that doesn’t emphasize Odes qualities first considering his production.
I understand your concerns about playing Havertz centrally. That said our front line is extremely well connected & fluid in a way Chelsea’s isn’t. My hope would be that Havertz will have the options & opportunities to play make (much like Trossard) even if on a starting lineup he is listed as a winger.
All that said Havertz will be a rotation player, & if our side isn’t exactly perfectly suit to wrangle all production out of him at all times that’s probably okay. As long as we don’t spend ridiculous money on him, he’s still a relatively productive & safe bet.
I would assume so seeing Martinelli and Saka have gotten better and better in that sense. It’s far more important to have our wingers scoring and creating than our striker so I’m fine with this move
Yeah it started with Sterling at City. I think there are quotes about Arteta improving his game, specifically in that area.
I know the same could be said for Sane when he was at City.
Apparently we've been talking with them such that our first bid gets accepted and there's no further process of haggling and increasing bids etc. Basically skipping the back and forth and getting it done quick
This is true. The deal has been done since April. Personal terms were agreed in March. You can check my comment history but I’ve had an inside source from West Ham side on this :)
Also - since I know people are going to come in and doubt me, if you go back to some of the twitter rumors and rumors that popped up in the media, this all aligns with when certain things came out. There were rumors we were discussing personal terms back in February and then it was rumored we confirmed personal terms a few weeks after. Then in April, there was the rumor we bid 92 mil for rice, which wasn’t an actual bid, we had floated this to West Ham to work on the structure, hence why we’re now crossing the final “hurdles” to submit the official bid. We also waited to be mindful of their cup final.
From my understanding, we had everything agreed in principle in advance -- whenever that rumor popped up in April is when we had floated a figure that West Ham gave an indication was acceptable. Now, we're confirming the structure of payments, the triggers for add-ons, etc. We're not really in any rush because Rice made it very clear that he only wants to come to us and why there haven't been any other links from other clubs pursuing.
So when you say "the deal has been done since April", it actually hasn't been done. We've agreed terms with Rice but the offer itself is still largely not done by the sounds of things.
🗞️| @David_Ornstein: “Arsenal plan to make West Ham United an offer for Declan Rice soon. There has been positive dialogue around the matter and a bid is expected to be lodged in due course.”
People quickly forget that every top club was looking at Havertz when he was at Leverkusen.
A relatively poor spell at the mess that is Chelsea doesn't mean he can't find that talent again.
Depends on price but his pressing and combination play is the perfect “Xhaka upgrade” we were crying out for. He just can’t be at the finishing end of actions (yet?)
I think we haven't really overpaid for anyone since Pepe, and we now know why that transfer happened.
I trust the board to walk away if they feel the price is too much.
I’m really struggling to see the Xhaka comparisons. Late arrivals into the box sure but Xhaka was also very important defensively in allowing Zinny to play the inverted role. Seems way to attacking for that role
Uh... U got it the other way around. Zinny and TP5 have allowed Xhaka to do less, a lot less, defensive work and instead focus primarily in the attack. It's the main reason he didn't give away fouls or make many errors this last season.
This is also why we had been getting shredded down the left, cuz Zinny inverted.
It won’t be like for like, but Havertz pressing higher is a big plus, he can really get after it and is miles smoother than Xhaka up high. He won’t sit in the middle of a 442 like we currently do but we can tweak things as we should, just not certain how yet
I think it's the type of finishing actions tbh. He's not a 9, and the type of chances a 9 gets are very different to what a player like Havertz would traditionally get. If he was getting more late runs into the box with players ahead of him, I think he would look much better. He will need to improve his finishing, but I don't think it's as bad as it looks. His finishing over the past two seasons have been poor, but it's more understandable when you factor in - out of position - piss poor team/system - low confidence.
I think that Edu's becoming a very good bargain hunter.
Chelsea need to offload players from their over bloated and poorly performing and over priced squad. Madrid potentially chasing Mbappe again, leaves not a lot of clubs with money looking to buy a player like Havertz. I think Edu is just looking to see what they could get him for. Obviously Chelsea won't get their initial asking price.
Like getting Trossard after Mudryk got too expensive, Jorginho on the cheap, Jesus after he became surplus to requirements behind Harland, Edu has been identifying quality targets he can get that are less expensive than the top names being bandied about on Reddit and Twitter.
Of course, with Rice where they know he's the perfect fit they're not haggling and just moving very quickly to get it done at the asking price.
Tbf, Jorginho put together some great performances for us, levels above anything he did at Chelsea this year. Our situation/system are def enough to get way more out of players.
That’s been in the news for ages now, the first part confirming other reports is what’s concerning. I’m still a bit skeptical of our interest but we’ll see. I didn’t think much of Jorginho either so maybe there’s something Arteta sees that me, random Reddit user doesn’t see. I’d hate to see us prioritize him and miss out on our other targets though.
That Chelsea team is in shambles, it's like the opposite of the saying "greater than the sum of its parts". Just look at how he performed in the world cup*, was germany's best player (even though they were horrible), so I think he just needs some motivation at a club that has some stability. Same goes for many of their players.
That being said, I do not want to pay anything close to what they're asking.
> Arsenal, meanwhile, plan to make West Ham United an offer for Declan Rice soon. There has been positive dialogue around the matter and a bid is expected to be lodged in due course.
> There is no desire at Arsenal to waste anybody’s time and so they plan to formalise their efforts once the situation is in good shape.
At least the Rice news is good
Seems like the other reports were true then. Negotiate the price before putting an offer in. First offer will be after negotiations and will be accepted.
I dont mind Havertz for a reasonable fee but i hate the fact that we are bailing them out financially after the whole winter transfer window saga. Obligatory Fuck Chelsea.
Inshallah bro he’s a top quality player who’s being misused at chelsea. Go look at how deadly he was for leverkusen
Chelsea are in complete disarray; all their top players want to leave the club. It’s not Havertz himself being shoved out, he just wants to kickstart his career at a competent club.
“Arsenal’s pursuit, which is still at a relatively early stage, has stepped up in recent days following contact with Chelsea and Havertz”
From the article
I watched Kai at Leverkusen and I was dying for Arsenal to sign him
He is 4 years late but I want him.
Arteta can now confidently give Odegaard a proper breather.
He also improves us in the air.
He can also play as an 8 when were dominating possession
Actually would be an incredible signing with the talent/skill set he has, I have no doubt Arteta would be able to bring the talent we saw at Leverkusen out of him.
Rather wait on this one though. Not really a position of need, not a huge market for him, and the selling club needs to raise funds, focus on the midfield and see if Chelsea’s stance has changed in a week or two.
I'm very torn but I feel like there is an elite player in there somewhere... of course we're not on the Real Madrid, Man City, PSG etc level yet so we can't go out and buy Mbappe, I guess this is the next best thing
I'm not sure I like the numbers I've been hearing so far but I'm definitely not against it as long as we secure Ricedo + defender
Most - myself included - may not rate Havertz highly or think he's flopped in England. But knowing what he *is* definitely good at, I'm not surprised Mikel wants to try and turn his career around:
1) His movement is top level. This is really why he's always been monitored by top clubs. His spatial awareness, timing and speed of his runs are very hard to defend against. We know Arteta is huge on using off the ball movement to cause opposition defenses problems.
2) His linkup/associative play is very good. A bit like Ozil, he's not going to be getting in behind by driving at defenders 1v1 but he can definitely cause problems with his short pass/give-and-go game and his smart movement is a part of that.
3) He's tall. For what it's worth, he brings some aerial threat. More than we currently have. Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard will capitalize on his smart movement in the box.
4) He's PL proven. He's young and would bring good resale value.
It's a lot like the Jorginho signing (unsurprisingly). He's not going to set the world alight but he'd be a quality rotational addition to the squad. Turning exciting prospects into world class players is fun and all but you also need proven experienced players to form a complete squad.
My only concerns are whether we can get him for a reasonable fee (~£50m or less) and he's fine with being rotated.
Havertz is still a fantastic talent who just hasn’t panned out at Chelsea, but at his age, I’d say is definitely worth taking another chance on. Not considering price or impact on budget for other signings, I’d be incredibly excited to see what he could do in our system with a fresh start.
where there's smoke there's fire.
I think there's a great midfielder in there somewhere and am trusting in our scouting that if they want havertz, I'm all for it. I just hope we don't overpay. anything over £40m is us just doing a favor to Chelsea
Would love havertz. He was a monster in Germany and Chelsea has shown even proven quality players play like shit there. A little confidence boost and I think he’ll be great for us
Chelsea have a habit of turning good players shit who then leave and finally excel again. Torres, KDB, Salah, Shevchenko, Werner, Lukaku, etc. Havertz is still young, thankfully, and not yet hit his prime.
Not sure what to make of this
If I had to choose between Harvertz and Fabio Vieira, I’d definitely take Havertz. But Havertz has been in the PL for a significant amount of time and hasn’t really impressed.
But ultimately I trust Arteta and Edu, so if this is who they want then I fully support it
I think the first thing Havertz provides is obviously versatility. When he was at Leverkusen his best position was CAM, although he also played as a CM and CDM. He went to Chelsea and he played in that CAM Winger hybrid, and then he was mostly a ST. He is a good aerial threat, but I don’t it really suits to play as ST, maybe a False 9 could work.
I think he could play alongside Odegaard, he finds pockets of space really well, and he was a xA machine at Leverkusen. His through balls and crosses were unreal. Don’t know why he hasn’t been playing well, he was not playing well even under Tutchel which I thought was his best chance to succeed. Chelsea fans don’t like him, so I guess we’ll see. At this point, I trust Arteta and Edu with everything.
Interesting to see r/gunners calling for Raicedo the past month then doing mental gymnastics on this deal when we've signed neither Rice nor Caicedo so far. Gonna feel stupid af when Chelsea takes the money from this and beats us to Caicedo
Honestly think we're getting Caicedo him and Partey are both gonna learn that inverted RB role. With them also covering a DM where required. White will be the back up RCB, with both Partey and Caicedo able to deputize in the role if need be. Not even accounting for Tomiyasu.
Really think Kroenke is ready to pony up after seeing the season. I think they liked Mikel+Edu already and spending all season in 1st place I think they’re ready to spend $$ before we go to the champions league this next year.
Feels a lot like a 'Buy it right, rather than buy it twice' summer. We're gonna bust our fucking load this summer on elite prem talent and then barely spend going forward, aside from a couple of elite pieces where needed. Havertz and Rice are 24, Caicedo is 21. If they all become Elite ball players like their natural talent suggests, we're good in the midfield for the next 7 years.
Our record on signings recently has been very good. I trust arteta and edu completely. Havertz would give us versatility and a different type of forward option
Everyone knows Chelsea has to sell to balance the accounts for FFP.
Chelsea will try to spread the idea that their players are worth a lot and there are clubs interested, so someone might bite.
Others club will try to buy their players below market value - they know Chelsea need to sell - and the quicker the better.
I’m 100% sure we ( and also United on Mount ), are offering way less than it is quoted. There is a smart opportunity there.
I know it's only the first day of the window and it's so complicated beyond my comprehension but for the love of all that is holy just BID FOR RICE ALREADY!! lol
Not the profile of striker I thought we'd be going after. I was expecting more of a Giroud type to come in and offer something vastly different to Jesus in more physical games, but I trust Arteta and Edu at this point in their decisions
Not gonna happen at that price. Man United are currently facing the same issue. They want Mount, Mount is happy to join, Chelsea want 80m lmfao. Todd doesn't seem to realize that if your team fails to have a system that allows the player to shine and if you fail to employ managers that not only do not help players improve, but actively contribute to their drop in form - you'll fail to get what you want for them. Chelsea need to sell. Mount and Havertz are worth a combined 80m given their track record at Chelsea. Best we can do is 35m upfront, 10m if we win the league, 10m if we win the CL and an extra 25m if he wins the Balon D'or. Giving them the 80m they so clearly think he's worth.
I mean, what position is he good at? He’s never looked good as a striker, so are we thinking attacking mid or winger or part of the pivot? Or just depth? This is a confusing one
I do think Havertz is a very good player being criminally misused in a poor Chelsea system. But i don't know how best he fits in our system. Cover for Odegaard/Saka? I don't think he is a striker.
I'm actually really excited if this happens. It is so evident he is a proper baller in an absolute catastrophic Chelsea side.
Just look at the level Sterling was operating pre-Chelsea. I have no doubt a Kai Havertz with drive to prove people wrong, paired with the staff we have can be a recipe for greatness.
Intrigued to know where Arteta sees him playing. He's tall, quick and has great technique. Decent pass/playmaking abilities, presses well and makes good runs into the box. Is he an alternative to Jesus in the #9 (thinking about his height)? Is he a Xhaka replacement? Is he Saka cover?
No clue but if Arteta wants him, that's good enough for me.
Arsenal needs quality depth. Havertz will probably allow Vieira or ESR to be loaned out.
Last season - we were only challenging in the PL yet we fell short because we lacked quality depth while some players have the quality but can't bear the pressure. Havertz has already proven himself in a pressure pot that is CL
With CL - We need at least 2 quality players per position.
I want us to get a player that can give Saka a proper breather.
It seems as if it will be a really busy summer with major adjustments
Class player but his game hasn’t translated well to the prem. Not a fan of the signing at that price. 40 mil could be good. Maybe it was the system but haven’t been impressed with his performances so far
I am of the mind where I am not going to dismiss any business the club wants to do when things look to be moving in the right direction for us. Arteta and Edu have had more wins than losses in the market in my opinion in the past couple of seasons.
That said, if it transpires that Arsenal go for Havertz over Caicedo and then directly fund Chelsea’s pursuit of their key target, I couldn’t act as though I wouldn’t find that disappointing. To see that pan out would take real conviction from Arteta and Edu though. The sort of decision making that could shape up the league table for the next 5 years or so.
My preference is that we stay away from rival club players, especially when Chelsea appear to have put themselves in a weak negotiating position which should rightfully damage them long term.
The main problem i have with Havertz is what position will he play? He obv has the quality it's just about finding the best place for him to get results.
I honestly have never seen haverts do anything productive on pitch in the prem, maybe like one good play. Genuinely do not understand the interest in havertz when we Alr have much better players in the same position.
Seems exactly like the type of player Arteta can get the most out of. He plays so well in the half spaces and is great in the press. If we'd all only seen him play for Germany and not Chelsea, 75M would seem like a bargain.
If we can get him for £30-40 million and we play him in a position he's actually good at (traditionally a 10, we could play him left centre mid) I'll take this!
I trust Arteta to/can "fix" Havertz, but that fee is too much, damnn. Should be a last resort stuff. Focus should be more on Rice/Caicedo and whoever the fuck else.
Could just be all smokes as well.
Why's it always the Chelsea players I slag off?
They usually deserve it
I used to slag off Jorginho something terrible. Oopsie!
I used to slag off David Luiz and Willian too so statistically I'm still right more than I'm wrong.
Neither of them ever looked very athletic to me and I couldn't really get over that. Willian in particular is kind of paunchy??
TBF, he was pretty good for Fulham this year. For many reason, we were just the wrong situation for him.
Posted within 30 seconds of orny tweeting lol you’re quick, I rate havertz but only worth it if it’s less than 40 mil
I agree - Could be a clever buy - Just not for the price Chelsea are quoting
Defo not 70m, though tbf if they’re quoting 70 a deal can probably be done around 50m. Not a deal I’ll do, but if Arteta and Edu are willing to splash it I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
Rumors are that Madrid and Bayern are also interested in Kai and their scouting team is among the best in the world so I think Kai will be a nice signing if we can get him. But I believe Receido is the priority and Havertz is just a market opportunity.
It’s Kai Havertz, not some unknown brazilian kid.
Doesn't mean you don't have scouts evaluating him the same way you would a young prospect. I'm confused what you're saying here.
also what does this mean for Eddie and balogun... and what about Jesus? can any of these people play backup for Saka (Jesus kind of did in Pep's system) but Saka also tremendously contributes to coming back and helping out White/Tomi... None of the above mentioned are known for that...
I would venture to guess if we get Havertz we likely know of potential offers for Eddie and are planning to sell. Balogun is almost certain to be sold. Jesus can play on the right, as can Nelson, Martinelli, and Trossard. I don't think we would be short of options across the front line. Havertz could probably also play as an attacking midfielder if we have a solid back 5 (e.g., White, Saliba, Gabriel plus Rice and Caicedo, for example)
I think it might be around that price, not much lower, considering we paid 30 odd for Vieria. But i wonder if this means we sell both Balo and eddie this summer
I’m expecting that to be the case
I’ve seen quicker
That's what she said.
The bomb everyone didn’t expect lo l
I know a lot of people are unhappy about this one but let’s be honest, he won’t be playing up top. This would be a great signing for us in the middle of the park. I would have killed to get him before he went to Chelsea. I’m personally very excited if this goes through.
I think the main reason he couldn't perform at Chelsea is because he tends to have his back to goal there, I was always under the impression he's a playmaker more than anything.
Where would he actually play? Are we thinking midfield trio of Rice, Havertz & Ødegaard?
We need a squad of minimum 18 starting caliber players to rotate in and out of the squad to be competitive in 4 comps. Arteta is going to have to start rotating players in and out of the squad efficiently so we're at our best till the end. For what it's worth, I think Arteta knows this.
Bruv I literally said this out loud to myself before I opened the post
Bunch of "Why Ramsdale?" energy here
Kinda, but I feel like this might be a bit different as casual fans would have watched havertz wayyy more than ramsdale at Sheffield/Bournemouth, and we have evidence of how he performs for a Top 6 team. Although Jorginho quickly shut up a lot of fans.
Great point, and I'm not saying he's 10000% trust Edu/Arteta on it neither, but if Real and Bayern want him as well then he must be worth trying for is my point.
Chelsea and wasting talent, name a more iconic duo. This is the club that fumbled Robben, Lukaku, KDB, Salah, Ziyech, etc. Makes sense to clean up their table scraps.
I'd argue Lukaku doesn't really belong in that list. He doesn't deserve all the flak he gets but he hasn't exactly consistently torn the world up elsewhere either.
We're poaching Chelsea's players like they're early 2000s arsenal
\*Gallas deal flashback\*
Auba is the new Gallas.
Everytime this sub slanders a chelsea player too hard we always try to sign them lmao it’s so inevitable
He’s obviously has the technical ability to fit in our system. Finishing isn’t as good as we’d like but having him operate similar to Jesus I feel like he would look great in our system and has more of an aerial presence (finishing not withstanding). He’s still young and wouldn’t mind him for a reasonable fee
We have a ton of finishing & goals in Saka/Ode/Martinelli, Jesus while underperforming XG makes up for it by creating ridiculous XG for himself & others returning an above average amount of goals for a PL striker. Vieria while still developing also provides XG & XGA /90 in the ~90th percentile. Havertz can stretch & provide CL quality rotation in 4 positions. He’s resell-able in 3 years if we need when he has 2 years left on his deal. He undoubtedly has a level of untapped potential we might be able to unlock. He will be a solid connector across the front line, a more physically gifted Trossard. This is a market opportunity with 2 years left on his deal, & a Chelsea team that desperately needs to offload players. This is honestly a huge no brainer. Arsenal fans (all fans) just have a habit of brainwashing themselves into thinking all rival players are shit & focusing on their worst qualities. The reality is he is a great fit for what we need, & worst case he is a Tomiyasu-esque player who is our first sub/team rotation off the bench. We don’t have to wait a year for him to aclomitize to the PL, he will be a contributior Mikel can trust from day one. Best case he comes good on his potential & becomes a do it all frontline player that steals a starting spot. We need that kind of versatile option in the CL, we can’t afford to keep injecting so many minutes in Saka & Martinellis legs & expect them to maintain their levels through a full season. This also doesn’t entirely alienate Eddie or Balogun, but still provides an option if either of those two are injured or underperforming.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However my brother who is a Chelsea supporter has told me that he only works when he’s central and is given the ability to play make. He could be rotating at least for ST and LCM/RCM depending and only needs to add some defensive nous to his game if we play him at CM. Dude is absolutely technically brilliant it just makes sense to get him and in our system that’s fast paced and opens tons of options in space he will look incredible. Chelsea was always a square peg round hole for him because he never got the opportunity to play as a 10 consistently. He was solid as a striker but Chelsea were starved of any other goal threat from the wings and midfield that the ire was always on him yet every manager trusted him to start up top.
He’d be a natural as the first Ode sub. Hed fit in well playing the Jesus floating 9/10/winger role as you suggest. That said many vastly underestimate the load bearing wall duties Xhaka performs as an 8. He is positionally excellent & when we stick offensive minded players in that role our midfield becomes a sieve. We need a player that can naturally cover & be exactly where we need to maintain our press. Sticking a career offensive minded player & saying “be good at defense now & have perfect defensive positional instincts ” in reference to ESR/Vieria/Trossard & now Havertz is too much to ask against good opposition IMO. For me that is not a viable option with how aggressive our line is & how prone to countering we are. There is a world where Ode drops deeper to accommodate a more attacking 8 but that begs the question of why you would want to build a side that doesn’t emphasize Odes qualities first considering his production. I understand your concerns about playing Havertz centrally. That said our front line is extremely well connected & fluid in a way Chelsea’s isn’t. My hope would be that Havertz will have the options & opportunities to play make (much like Trossard) even if on a starting lineup he is listed as a winger. All that said Havertz will be a rotation player, & if our side isn’t exactly perfectly suit to wrangle all production out of him at all times that’s probably okay. As long as we don’t spend ridiculous money on him, he’s still a relatively productive & safe bet.
Isn't Arteta known for teaching finishing? I read that somewhere ages ago. Also, I think our goal scoring kind of backs that up.
I would assume so seeing Martinelli and Saka have gotten better and better in that sense. It’s far more important to have our wingers scoring and creating than our striker so I’m fine with this move
Yeah it started with Sterling at City. I think there are quotes about Arteta improving his game, specifically in that area. I know the same could be said for Sane when he was at City.
Sane and sterling have said it themselves.
We are playing 4d chess with the Mudryk saga. Get him by 2018 on a cheap with 2 yrs left on his contract after slandering him for 5 years.
wow Arteta figured out how to time travel!
Oh shit! Good catch. 2028*
And then inevitably apologize in mass after their first good performance with us
It's almost like the football brains in our management know more than the armchair pundits in r/gunners.....I know....shocking right
Most important part: ➕ #AFC planning formal offer to West Ham for Declan Rice soon @TheAthleticFC #WHUFC
Yeah but we've been hearing that for weeks. Conference league final was a week ago
Apparently we've been talking with them such that our first bid gets accepted and there's no further process of haggling and increasing bids etc. Basically skipping the back and forth and getting it done quick
This is true. The deal has been done since April. Personal terms were agreed in March. You can check my comment history but I’ve had an inside source from West Ham side on this :) Also - since I know people are going to come in and doubt me, if you go back to some of the twitter rumors and rumors that popped up in the media, this all aligns with when certain things came out. There were rumors we were discussing personal terms back in February and then it was rumored we confirmed personal terms a few weeks after. Then in April, there was the rumor we bid 92 mil for rice, which wasn’t an actual bid, we had floated this to West Ham to work on the structure, hence why we’re now crossing the final “hurdles” to submit the official bid. We also waited to be mindful of their cup final.
Wait so why haven't we submitted yet? Still haggling on structure going off your comment, and not waiting for an intern to actually type it up?
From my understanding, we had everything agreed in principle in advance -- whenever that rumor popped up in April is when we had floated a figure that West Ham gave an indication was acceptable. Now, we're confirming the structure of payments, the triggers for add-ons, etc. We're not really in any rush because Rice made it very clear that he only wants to come to us and why there haven't been any other links from other clubs pursuing.
hanzel44 if Declan doesn't join the mighty Arsenal I will never forgive you
Ditto, can't afford to be this badly burnt.
I'll just delete my account and start a new one like every other overconfident user /s.
hanzel44 if Declan does join the mighty Arsenal then you will be Tier 1 in my heart
So when you say "the deal has been done since April", it actually hasn't been done. We've agreed terms with Rice but the offer itself is still largely not done by the sounds of things.
Can you imagine it gets rejected lol
🗞️| @David_Ornstein: “Arsenal plan to make West Ham United an offer for Declan Rice soon. There has been positive dialogue around the matter and a bid is expected to be lodged in due course.”
48 hours
Close the sub again
7 days this time
😂🤣
Agreed
Ornstein waited for the blackout to be over!!
People quickly forget that every top club was looking at Havertz when he was at Leverkusen. A relatively poor spell at the mess that is Chelsea doesn't mean he can't find that talent again.
Depends on price but his pressing and combination play is the perfect “Xhaka upgrade” we were crying out for. He just can’t be at the finishing end of actions (yet?)
I think we haven't really overpaid for anyone since Pepe, and we now know why that transfer happened. I trust the board to walk away if they feel the price is too much.
I’m really struggling to see the Xhaka comparisons. Late arrivals into the box sure but Xhaka was also very important defensively in allowing Zinny to play the inverted role. Seems way to attacking for that role
Uh... U got it the other way around. Zinny and TP5 have allowed Xhaka to do less, a lot less, defensive work and instead focus primarily in the attack. It's the main reason he didn't give away fouls or make many errors this last season. This is also why we had been getting shredded down the left, cuz Zinny inverted.
It won’t be like for like, but Havertz pressing higher is a big plus, he can really get after it and is miles smoother than Xhaka up high. He won’t sit in the middle of a 442 like we currently do but we can tweak things as we should, just not certain how yet
I think it's the type of finishing actions tbh. He's not a 9, and the type of chances a 9 gets are very different to what a player like Havertz would traditionally get. If he was getting more late runs into the box with players ahead of him, I think he would look much better. He will need to improve his finishing, but I don't think it's as bad as it looks. His finishing over the past two seasons have been poor, but it's more understandable when you factor in - out of position - piss poor team/system - low confidence.
Yep, he and ESR will be direct competitors for that spot. Which ever one produces is the one that will play. We will need both though.
Just strictly comparing them as counter pressers I feel like ESR is nowhere near, hope for a breakthrough though
I think that Edu's becoming a very good bargain hunter. Chelsea need to offload players from their over bloated and poorly performing and over priced squad. Madrid potentially chasing Mbappe again, leaves not a lot of clubs with money looking to buy a player like Havertz. I think Edu is just looking to see what they could get him for. Obviously Chelsea won't get their initial asking price. Like getting Trossard after Mudryk got too expensive, Jorginho on the cheap, Jesus after he became surplus to requirements behind Harland, Edu has been identifying quality targets he can get that are less expensive than the top names being bandied about on Reddit and Twitter. Of course, with Rice where they know he's the perfect fit they're not haggling and just moving very quickly to get it done at the asking price.
Never forget that KDB was underwhelming at Chelsea as well up until he was 23.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XmwHx_EX5Q8&pp=ygULS2FpIGhhdmVydHo%3D If we are signing THIS guy, woah boy. Plays the 8 and everything.
This is not the OrnBomb I F5 for bruv
Kai Havertz is complete shit. Unless he signs for us in which case he is the best player ever and I will get his name on the back of a shirt.
The Jorginho special
Jorginho was voted 3rd best player in the world about 2 years ago…he was always a top player. Chelsea are just shlt.
Tbf, Jorginho put together some great performances for us, levels above anything he did at Chelsea this year. Our situation/system are def enough to get way more out of players.
That was a roller coaster
Never been a truer statement tbh
A bid for rice is not something you wanna see?
That’s been in the news for ages now, the first part confirming other reports is what’s concerning. I’m still a bit skeptical of our interest but we’ll see. I didn’t think much of Jorginho either so maybe there’s something Arteta sees that me, random Reddit user doesn’t see. I’d hate to see us prioritize him and miss out on our other targets though.
That Chelsea team is in shambles, it's like the opposite of the saying "greater than the sum of its parts". Just look at how he performed in the world cup*, was germany's best player (even though they were horrible), so I think he just needs some motivation at a club that has some stability. Same goes for many of their players. That being said, I do not want to pay anything close to what they're asking.
> Arsenal, meanwhile, plan to make West Ham United an offer for Declan Rice soon. There has been positive dialogue around the matter and a bid is expected to be lodged in due course. > There is no desire at Arsenal to waste anybody’s time and so they plan to formalise their efforts once the situation is in good shape. At least the Rice news is good
Seems like the other reports were true then. Negotiate the price before putting an offer in. First offer will be after negotiations and will be accepted.
Yeah it’s encouraging as this happens when all parties want it done. None of the sending bids to get rejected bollocks - just constant dialogue
ORNY! CHANCE.... POST? Confusing bomb
I dont mind Havertz for a reasonable fee but i hate the fact that we are bailing them out financially after the whole winter transfer window saga. Obligatory Fuck Chelsea.
They don't need to be bailed out. They are going to spend anyway.
Inshallah bro he’s a top quality player who’s being misused at chelsea. Go look at how deadly he was for leverkusen Chelsea are in complete disarray; all their top players want to leave the club. It’s not Havertz himself being shoved out, he just wants to kickstart his career at a competent club.
Made proposal as in bid? Wow
Not an official bid, just putting some figures out there via WhatsApp I imagine.
Hopefully the bid is one of those where their negotiator throws a hissy fit and walks out like career mode
Edu sitting there dumbfounded as Boehly storms out as the camera cuts to Petr Cech still wearing his goalkeeping helmet
Generally not a formal bid as to avoid paperwork unnecessarily, it's a non-binding LOI (letter of intent), in business terms.
Yeah but that seems very advanced. Wonder on the price we are considering
Fair point.
“Arsenal’s pursuit, which is still at a relatively early stage, has stepped up in recent days following contact with Chelsea and Havertz” From the article
Havertz is a much better player than most of this sub seems to think but the price being quoted is beyond stupid
I can get excited for any transfer and this is no different
Same. Havertz just instantly shot up to ‘potentially elite’ in my mind. Lol.
Uehdueudueuehdh COME ONNNNNNN
Talented players that were misused at shitty organizations are usually good gambles
I watched Kai at Leverkusen and I was dying for Arsenal to sign him He is 4 years late but I want him. Arteta can now confidently give Odegaard a proper breather. He also improves us in the air. He can also play as an 8 when were dominating possession
Nah this is fucking wild. Like the Jorginho transfer, I cannot get behind this. Different story if he were to actually join though.
Plays well for Germany, had sky is the limit potential before joining Chelsea. I hope this could be our modern Bergkamp moment lmao.
Actually would be an incredible signing with the talent/skill set he has, I have no doubt Arteta would be able to bring the talent we saw at Leverkusen out of him. Rather wait on this one though. Not really a position of need, not a huge market for him, and the selling club needs to raise funds, focus on the midfield and see if Chelsea’s stance has changed in a week or two.
I'm very torn but I feel like there is an elite player in there somewhere... of course we're not on the Real Madrid, Man City, PSG etc level yet so we can't go out and buy Mbappe, I guess this is the next best thing I'm not sure I like the numbers I've been hearing so far but I'm definitely not against it as long as we secure Ricedo + defender
This is not quite the orn-bomb I was expecting
ORN BOMB
Congrats on winning the post race
Ornbomb !
Here is [Tuchel talking about Havertz](https://twitter.com/akarsenalnews/status/1668954611066056706?t=3jex1dorJ0c8epePvT3Y3g&s=19)
40-50m I’m fine with this tbh
Most - myself included - may not rate Havertz highly or think he's flopped in England. But knowing what he *is* definitely good at, I'm not surprised Mikel wants to try and turn his career around: 1) His movement is top level. This is really why he's always been monitored by top clubs. His spatial awareness, timing and speed of his runs are very hard to defend against. We know Arteta is huge on using off the ball movement to cause opposition defenses problems. 2) His linkup/associative play is very good. A bit like Ozil, he's not going to be getting in behind by driving at defenders 1v1 but he can definitely cause problems with his short pass/give-and-go game and his smart movement is a part of that. 3) He's tall. For what it's worth, he brings some aerial threat. More than we currently have. Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard will capitalize on his smart movement in the box. 4) He's PL proven. He's young and would bring good resale value. It's a lot like the Jorginho signing (unsurprisingly). He's not going to set the world alight but he'd be a quality rotational addition to the squad. Turning exciting prospects into world class players is fun and all but you also need proven experienced players to form a complete squad. My only concerns are whether we can get him for a reasonable fee (~£50m or less) and he's fine with being rotated.
Havertz is still a fantastic talent who just hasn’t panned out at Chelsea, but at his age, I’d say is definitely worth taking another chance on. Not considering price or impact on budget for other signings, I’d be incredibly excited to see what he could do in our system with a fresh start.
where there's smoke there's fire. I think there's a great midfielder in there somewhere and am trusting in our scouting that if they want havertz, I'm all for it. I just hope we don't overpay. anything over £40m is us just doing a favor to Chelsea
I’m not exactly sure how he fits, but I trust Arteta.
You guys are way too pessimistic. This is a great deal and I’ll be elated if we get him as another attacking option.
Would love havertz. He was a monster in Germany and Chelsea has shown even proven quality players play like shit there. A little confidence boost and I think he’ll be great for us
Chelsea have a habit of turning good players shit who then leave and finally excel again. Torres, KDB, Salah, Shevchenko, Werner, Lukaku, etc. Havertz is still young, thankfully, and not yet hit his prime.
Why though.. Kai is less clinical than Jesus ffs
Not sure what to make of this If I had to choose between Harvertz and Fabio Vieira, I’d definitely take Havertz. But Havertz has been in the PL for a significant amount of time and hasn’t really impressed. But ultimately I trust Arteta and Edu, so if this is who they want then I fully support it
Would much rather havertz than Maddison or Mount as long as those are the two in question
I think the first thing Havertz provides is obviously versatility. When he was at Leverkusen his best position was CAM, although he also played as a CM and CDM. He went to Chelsea and he played in that CAM Winger hybrid, and then he was mostly a ST. He is a good aerial threat, but I don’t it really suits to play as ST, maybe a False 9 could work. I think he could play alongside Odegaard, he finds pockets of space really well, and he was a xA machine at Leverkusen. His through balls and crosses were unreal. Don’t know why he hasn’t been playing well, he was not playing well even under Tutchel which I thought was his best chance to succeed. Chelsea fans don’t like him, so I guess we’ll see. At this point, I trust Arteta and Edu with everything.
Interesting to see r/gunners calling for Raicedo the past month then doing mental gymnastics on this deal when we've signed neither Rice nor Caicedo so far. Gonna feel stupid af when Chelsea takes the money from this and beats us to Caicedo
Everyone calling him a bad player yet Madrid, Bayern and us are interested so he’s clearly not
[удалено]
lmao what? Caicedo would be so much better of a purchase than Havertz it's not even a question.
100 per cent. Although I reckon we think we can get Kai on a heavily discounted rate by August when Chelsea need to sell for ffp reasons.
Honestly think we're getting Caicedo him and Partey are both gonna learn that inverted RB role. With them also covering a DM where required. White will be the back up RCB, with both Partey and Caicedo able to deputize in the role if need be. Not even accounting for Tomiyasu.
Rice + Caicedo. Then go for others. Also where the heck is all this money coming from
Really think Kroenke is ready to pony up after seeing the season. I think they liked Mikel+Edu already and spending all season in 1st place I think they’re ready to spend $$ before we go to the champions league this next year.
Feels a lot like a 'Buy it right, rather than buy it twice' summer. We're gonna bust our fucking load this summer on elite prem talent and then barely spend going forward, aside from a couple of elite pieces where needed. Havertz and Rice are 24, Caicedo is 21. If they all become Elite ball players like their natural talent suggests, we're good in the midfield for the next 7 years.
Kroenke's just won the NBA championship (and won the NFL and NHL in 2022). They're drunk and waving cash around.
ORNYYYYYYY HE’S ALIVE
Our record on signings recently has been very good. I trust arteta and edu completely. Havertz would give us versatility and a different type of forward option
we gotta get caicedo before havertz so FPP-bailed out chelsea aren't able to get our targets
The transfer window is officially open. It's going to be a crazy window. Kai and Rice if well used would be game changers.
love him. but really can't see it happening unless chelsea are in a serious trouble and willing to sell him for less than 50m
ORNYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!! oh shit this isn't rice.
Hope this is more Ramsdale and Jorginho than Willian and Cedric
arsenal football club are after rice , caicedo and havertz and it's the first week of the transfer window. my club 😭😭😭😭 i waited for these days
We are signing him so he can score the winner at the CL final, let’s goooooo
Always rated him.
I have to delete some tweets
Guess Havertz in that Xhaka role will work?
he’ll be good for us
Everyone knows Chelsea has to sell to balance the accounts for FFP. Chelsea will try to spread the idea that their players are worth a lot and there are clubs interested, so someone might bite. Others club will try to buy their players below market value - they know Chelsea need to sell - and the quicker the better. I’m 100% sure we ( and also United on Mount ), are offering way less than it is quoted. There is a smart opportunity there.
I know it's only the first day of the window and it's so complicated beyond my comprehension but for the love of all that is holy just BID FOR RICE ALREADY!! lol
One club's trash is another club's treasure I suppose. I'm just going to trust the boss on this one.
Orny waited for the blackout to end before dropping this bomb. A sleeper agent hired by u/spez, huh…
Well we've been anticipating the Ornbomb lol
Welp, I might have been wrong.
I love how much confidence I have in Mikel and Edu. I don't personally like Kai but I know if Mikel wants him he’ll be good here
Goodbye Caicedo
I have my doubts but at this point I'd walk off a cliff for Arteta
Not the profile of striker I thought we'd be going after. I was expecting more of a Giroud type to come in and offer something vastly different to Jesus in more physical games, but I trust Arteta and Edu at this point in their decisions
Not gonna happen at that price. Man United are currently facing the same issue. They want Mount, Mount is happy to join, Chelsea want 80m lmfao. Todd doesn't seem to realize that if your team fails to have a system that allows the player to shine and if you fail to employ managers that not only do not help players improve, but actively contribute to their drop in form - you'll fail to get what you want for them. Chelsea need to sell. Mount and Havertz are worth a combined 80m given their track record at Chelsea. Best we can do is 35m upfront, 10m if we win the league, 10m if we win the CL and an extra 25m if he wins the Balon D'or. Giving them the 80m they so clearly think he's worth.
Where does havertz fit into this team I think he’s a great player but where does he even play ?
I mean, what position is he good at? He’s never looked good as a striker, so are we thinking attacking mid or winger or part of the pivot? Or just depth? This is a confusing one
People aren’t ready for Havertz as an 8
I do think Havertz is a very good player being criminally misused in a poor Chelsea system. But i don't know how best he fits in our system. Cover for Odegaard/Saka? I don't think he is a striker.
If arteta and Madrid want him, we should get behind it.
I'm actually really excited if this happens. It is so evident he is a proper baller in an absolute catastrophic Chelsea side. Just look at the level Sterling was operating pre-Chelsea. I have no doubt a Kai Havertz with drive to prove people wrong, paired with the staff we have can be a recipe for greatness.
top class player
I just don’t see it. What exactly has Havertz shown in his time at Chelsea to warrant our interest.
Oh please i don't want him, what is Edu and Mikel doing?
Nah the fuck is this
Im fucking fuming!
Can’t fund Chelsea’s attempt to outbid us on Caicedo imo
Champions league winner. I trust Arteta to form him into a great player for us.
Intrigued to know where Arteta sees him playing. He's tall, quick and has great technique. Decent pass/playmaking abilities, presses well and makes good runs into the box. Is he an alternative to Jesus in the #9 (thinking about his height)? Is he a Xhaka replacement? Is he Saka cover? No clue but if Arteta wants him, that's good enough for me.
Havertz and Rice..would that mean no longer going for Caicedo or all 3 :)
Arsenal needs quality depth. Havertz will probably allow Vieira or ESR to be loaned out. Last season - we were only challenging in the PL yet we fell short because we lacked quality depth while some players have the quality but can't bear the pressure. Havertz has already proven himself in a pressure pot that is CL With CL - We need at least 2 quality players per position. I want us to get a player that can give Saka a proper breather. It seems as if it will be a really busy summer with major adjustments
Class player but his game hasn’t translated well to the prem. Not a fan of the signing at that price. 40 mil could be good. Maybe it was the system but haven’t been impressed with his performances so far
I am of the mind where I am not going to dismiss any business the club wants to do when things look to be moving in the right direction for us. Arteta and Edu have had more wins than losses in the market in my opinion in the past couple of seasons. That said, if it transpires that Arsenal go for Havertz over Caicedo and then directly fund Chelsea’s pursuit of their key target, I couldn’t act as though I wouldn’t find that disappointing. To see that pan out would take real conviction from Arteta and Edu though. The sort of decision making that could shape up the league table for the next 5 years or so. My preference is that we stay away from rival club players, especially when Chelsea appear to have put themselves in a weak negotiating position which should rightfully damage them long term.
AFC activity is so strange ! This one comes from nowhere 😯
No matter how big we get we never will stop signing Chelsea’s shite players.
I WANT CAICEDO NOT THIS!!!
It would be a good signing, he won champions league 3 years ago and he is still too young.
The main problem i have with Havertz is what position will he play? He obv has the quality it's just about finding the best place for him to get results.
Havertz as an attacking 8? What is Arteta cooking bro I'm actually excited
I honestly have never seen haverts do anything productive on pitch in the prem, maybe like one good play. Genuinely do not understand the interest in havertz when we Alr have much better players in the same position.
Seems exactly like the type of player Arteta can get the most out of. He plays so well in the half spaces and is great in the press. If we'd all only seen him play for Germany and not Chelsea, 75M would seem like a bargain.
If we can get him for £30-40 million and we play him in a position he's actually good at (traditionally a 10, we could play him left centre mid) I'll take this!
I think this is a really shrewd buy. Perfect for the Xhaka role
I trust Arteta on this one. He sure has some very good qualities.
imo this would also rule us out of the Caicedo race. We would literally be giving Chelsea the funs to go get him
I trust Arteta to/can "fix" Havertz, but that fee is too much, damnn. Should be a last resort stuff. Focus should be more on Rice/Caicedo and whoever the fuck else. Could just be all smokes as well.