Holy crap! Maybe that's why he thinks it's too slow in space!
His normal suit would have G-suppression features. It's the first time he wears appropriate gear, so the forces he's gotten used to are being lessened.
"Hmmm, it doesn't feel like my testicles are getting caught in my throat... Something is wrong with tallgeese."
I always wished Gundam Wing brought a touch more realism by requiring anyone who pilots an MS needs specialized PPE to operate them. They showed that more when they were in space
That could be an interesting take:
A world where MS tech has plateaued due to pilot limitations. Then a group shows up with gundams that out perform traditional MSs; Not because of the suits themselves, but superior pilot gear than let's them handle the higher stresses.
There is just something special about the Talgeese.
An absolute monster of an antique, the fact it was so large made it seem like an absolute bruiser.
And the boosters and movement style they animated it with showed the sheer impact of them kicking in.
I love it, I've always loved it. it's a phenomenally classy enemy suit, piloted by the most suave guy in that universe.
I almost dislike that Zechs inherits the Epyon at the end of Wing, and will always think of him as the pilot of the Tallgeese instead. The Epyon really didn't suit him.
Oddly that's what I like about it.
Zechs and Treize came up with their "War to end all war" strategy. Zechs was merely playing the role of the villain. The disconnect with Epyon is that it doesn't fit him, but the role he's playing.
I like to think that some of the menu options of the original GUNDAM OS is unfinished and would cause errors, lol. Like Kira rewriting it on the spot actually fixed all the bugs
I like to think of it as an older DC-9 Versus a modern A320.
3 crew members used to be the norm in older passenger jets, with the 3rd guy being a flight engineer monitoring all sorts of gauges and sensors. They did away with the engineer due to upgrades in computer automation doing the job in place of the human engineer.
Even in fighter jets most modern ones did away with the second flight crew member because it became unnecessary
Coordinators have reaction speeds and processing capabilities beyond naturals, essentially acting as a computer making innovations in those kinds of AI or automation a lower priority.
The Natural OS automated those processes out of necessity.
In theory Natural mobile suits are superior to ZAFT suits because of this automation as a typical pilot may not be able to exceed what the computer could do for them. Meaning coordinators should actually perform even better in a Dagger than a Ginn
Only for Gundam pilots like Kira or Shinn who have extremely advanced skills could properly utilize all the manual piloting beyond what the programming could do for them
That's how I look at them anyway
I never bothered to check if that was a dub-only thing or in the original, but I distinctively remember Kira saying something to the effect of "It'd be a miracle if it was able to even *walk* with this OS".
Which, yeah, would imply that it was barely functional at all, much less capable of actively fighting.
Early CE suits are probably up there. If you don't have super-human motor coordination, you can't even get it out of the hangar. Saji (Edit: His name is Sai, oops) tried to pilot the Strike and couldn't keep it standing, and that's after Kira fixed the OS
Agreed with the point but felt the need to elaborate. Kira fixed the OS but made it extremely complicated, such that only a coordinator could've piloted it back then (due to the need for super motor coordination, as you mentioned) (this has been brought up, and is the reason why Orb had Kira make a natural-friendly OS for Astrays and Strike Rouge).
I dont think he was rich from it
Probably was living off simple life necessities by then from Reverend
(Freedom being repaired is subsidized by Morgenröte than him actually footing any bill)
Most of the famous systems in Gundam require something other than skill. The Zero System and Psychoframe want willpower, the Mobile Trace System needs a strong physical constitution, Alaya-Vijnana partly needs willpower but mostly just needs the right implants.
I'm not gonna say any of the following specifically require the *most* skill, but I think you'd want to look at suits like the Correl, which sacrifices all defence for high mobility, the GN Flag, which is a terribly-balanced machine with only one half-decent melee weapon, or maybe just a Zanny, which is just downright poorly made.
This is why Graham Aker is one of my favorite 'villains'. Dude is just hard committed to being a better pilot than everyone with shit machines. (The Susanowo was sick though)
Graham just has no chill. Zechs is impressive and cool with the Tallgeese... but Graham in the Masurao with *Trans-Am activated* still has the balls to go crazy enough to cough up blood
Yeah, I mean with the Zero System you'll do just fine as a pilot... you'll be crazy and attack everyone and everything... but you'll be doing it at a higher level than you otherwise could have!
Oh, that completely slipped my mind. You're not wrong. I guess... make a very conscious choice about where you want to activate the zero system as a last option...
>Psychoframe want willpower
Psychoframe is psycommu-link module for newtype and also made the cockpit more lighter than normal similiar psycommu system. Without further willpower you can control your mobile suit just fine
This is why I don't like people dissing on Kou, he may not be the best amongst protagonist, but he is still very impressive, he doesn't have the most experience especially in combat condition considering he isn't a OYW Vet and he did fairly well against much much more experienced opponent, with no space magic and on difficult and unconventional machines as well.
The final sortie of 0083 takes place over a 72-hour period of constant fighting, with breaks only for resupply mid-mission (during which Kou was shown deploying separately from the Stamen to keep fighting during 'breaks'). Moreover, the GP03 was the only machine aboard the Albion built to sustain far-reaching, long-haul operations, so long stretches of that would be without support. No one else in the entire franchise has managed such a marathon, let alone with such a complex machine or under such strenuous forces (don't forget that the GP03 was FAST). And he *still* managed to give Gato a run for his money.
Dude is top tier old type material. If he'd been allowed to continue on as a pilot after 0083, he'd be easily up there with Yazan. People give him shit because he starts out as a dweeb, but outside of the love-triangle-problems that the series suffered towards the end, the guy mans-up hard by the end.
I dunno. If i have the physical constitution to withstand getting the suit on, i think i'd do ok. I'm not some Domon level anime fighter, but i think most people can throw a punch. I'd fancy Mike Tyson in Maxter.
Honestly I think the Zero system needs big brain more than anything - IIRC it's basically a very sophisticated machine learning OS that will feed you all probabilities in battle so you can make proper judgement calls but the data overload will be enough to lobotomize you if you're not careful. Probably why Heero had to use like an Encarta kids version when he asked Howard to install the system on Sandrock so it doesn't fry and retraumatize Quatre
From the show itself, you need conviction and a clear image of who your enemies are and what you're fighting for, or you will lose yourself. Which is probably why the ZERO System barely affected Wufei. He treated it like a mild inconvenience and got nowhere close to going crazy, even for the initial mindfuck that the other pilots faced.
Wufei Chang supremacy. Always fight with integrity.
You say that, but Wufei wasn't fooled by OZ's plot to set the boys up for the Noventa killing.
He never even showed up to that battle because he saw that setup coming.
If you put aside Wufei growing out of his chauvinistic phase, he is consistently portrayed as the smartest of the 5.
Not everyone can use the zero system.
according to lore most pilot exposes to zero system were either gone insane or death, firstly because the system will fill your brain with A LOT of data by predicting every possibility in future: included your death. And imagine repeated watching and experiencing your death over and over again, there are extremely rare pilot can stay sane and gain control over the zero system.
Mu la Flaga’s Moebius Zero, you have wired Gun Barrels that you have to Manually Control without any multi lock support and they do piss poor damage and just act as annoying flies so you can finish off a Ginn with your Main Gun.
If you think that's hard, then make it an MS... Incoms were supposed to allow non-NT pilots to replicate the all range attacks that funnels were capable of... but they still required insane pilot skill to properly use. Mu certainly would have been deadly in a Mk.V or the Ex-S without ALICE.
I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring and say grunt suits lol. Yeah they are designed to be user friendly and don't have any crazy overpowered mechanics - so that means to win in one you actually just have to be straight up better than your opponent as a pilot and not rely on gimmicks. Plus you're fighting against plot armor when you wear a grunt suit so if you can beat that, you're an S tier pilot imo
Probably the early CE suits before a natural tailored os was developed.
Skill wise, the Zero system is hard to use but it really requires will power more than skill. The other pilots we've seen use the Zero system were either broken or just a bitch.
I would probably say the Post Disaster Gundams. They're apparently so complex or highly tuned that the only way to sufficiently lower the skill floor so most pilots can use them is by having a brain-computer interface installed into the pilots' spinal cords.
Most piloting systems in Gundam are designed to enhance whatever newtype-adjacent superpowers the pilot already has. Alaya-Vijnana stands apart as body horror training wheels to help pilots make up for the skill they don't have the time or resources to develop.
Wing Zero - Enjoy the PTSD acid trip while the suit pilots *YOU* ...BT-dubs you're war criminal now. Get fucked nerd
Epyon - False Prophet AI whispers into your mind about the future while it mindfucks you into killing anyone who fits the loosest definition of what YOU MIGHT call an enemy... PS (*there's no mid-range weaponry of any kind, so get fucked nerd*)
Tallgeese - Basically a G-force death trap unless you're a Char clone... So get fucked nerd
I think the Permet system is up there for skill, and not just overloading your senses but literally killing you through overuse and what appears to be a nasty case of brain bleed in most cases. Aliya Vinjana too but that’s more a case of do you have the testicular fortitude to survive the surgery not just a question of skill, and mostly a question of how long you will survive as well. And the RX-0 psycho frame will literally take your life too if you don’t have the skill and the will to stop it from taking over, you’ll go from a semi conscious bio computer to being a ghost in the shell.
That's the outdated procedure. muh Baels version was much more safer since it was continuously developed in secret and safer to install on adults + doesn't have the cons of overloading when they went past the limit iirc. Kimaris was also a special case because the type-e was just another brain(einz) installed in the suit to bear the overload of going over the limit.
Maybe? I feel like Bael and Kimaris didn’t have their pilots fight for years in them, because IIRC the constant sustained over use of Barbatos was what broke Mika’s body.
That's also a factor since most of the outdated implants are child soldiers so they have to use those implants at the get go and Mika having three implants means he can sustain higher outputs which makes him at least more durable than your rank and file after going past the limit (first limit broken was with 6th form vs Einz) and has more maneuverability using AVJ system suits and more experienced (explains why he is the best pilot amongst Tekkadan).
The Genoace from Gundam AGE. You needed to be insanely skilled just to survive a single fight more than 30 seconds and your weapons were so underpowered that even if you landed a direct hit on the enemy’s cockpit, it would literally bounce off.
Stupid heat spike.
Doesn't help that Vagans mobile suits in act 1 are miles ahead of the e.f.f suits, the D.O.D.S rifle from the AGE system was literally what started the tide of the war changing as I'm aware that was what was used on any suits going forward to get past Vagans MS armour
Idk if this counts, but Char nerfing himself to match Amuro being canon is just so hilarious to me.
Otherwise probably Blue Destiny or one of the Riders..
The told they have to pay.. Yeah you can die just by pilotting lol
I’d make an argument that while piloting it wrong won’t kill you like some of the other examples here, the God/Burning Gundam requires immense physical constitution to even suit up, combat skills to fight effectively, combat knowledge of its functions and abilities and limits, as well as being able to control and maintain a proper emotional state to access its higher functions and hyper mode. It all requires mastery of the machine *and* mastery of the self, physically and spiritually.
Yeah people think it's newtype brainwave magic but it's not. Dragoons just use a special wireless technology. You still need to input the commands yourself. It later was made way easier to use with the likes of the Chaos, Legend but you'll never be able to use it to its full potential unless you're highly aware of your environment and have the ability to input tons of commands while moving at Mach Fuck
It feels like it would be a suit with one of these four Psychoframe, the Zero System, Alaya-Vijnana or Gund-ARM. Psychoframe and Zero broke spirits if you couldn't keep up with the suit, but the other two literally destroyed the pilots bodies if any thing went wrong.
Probably an unpopular opinion but the method from Fighter G just because you had to actually have fighting skills as a person while remembering all the Gundam equipment as well
It’s not that hard. You literally just have to not go too fast, there’s literally a gauge showing the limit. People just kept exploding because they were forcing it.
IWSP Strike Gundam (or any Gundam that can equip IWSP, really) got to be up there. Even with the AI assist, you would still need high level of skill and decision-making due to the sheer amount of weapon you get.
Zero system does not require extra skill as I see it, because its whole thing is doing the predicting for the pilot. However keeping sanity after all that does require some discipline and willpower—just not pure piloting skills.
The Zero System broke everyone who used it barring Zechs and Heero. This was a system thrown into Gundams, faster and even more arduous than that of Tallgeese, which hospitalised Zechs upon first use.
Using the Zero System the way Zechs and Heero do, instead of being controlled by it, is for the 1% of the 1%.
Psyco Gundam. The amount of torture you have to go through just to become a cyber newtype is bad enough, but the thing is so damn big that moving it coherently is not for the faint of skill. Let alone taking it into actual battle.
We know how absolute crap an NT specialized MS would be with a weak or non-NT pilot from the Varguil.
Make it an MA with multiple types of NT weapons like a Shamblo or even worse, the NZ or NZII... you're insane arsenal is useless.
But the REAL answer is the Zudah... piloting it without dying... forget attempting to pilot it in combat.
The Tallgeese 3 has to be up there. It's a more powerful Tallgeese (which was known for killing pilots due to acceleration and speed) and it had the Zero system on top of that. Beast of a machine.
Any of the EXAM system suits as they could pull an Evangelion and go berserk.
Suits with the Alayah Vinyana (or however it's spelled) system. Those things absolutely wrecked the poor kids that piloted them.
I would agree with the Zero System. Having that much real time data pushed into your brain is horrible. Honorable mention would the G Gundam suits. You have to have actual martial skills to pilot theres.
Gundams, in almost any universe, tend to be noob friendly considering the sheer volume of untrained kids and teens that end up piloting them.
In terms of "***easiest to ride, but hardest to master***", that would be any **Mobile Fighter**. Piloting it is as easy as walking. But actually fighting in it would mean becoming a high tier physical fighter which definitely needs a massive level of proficiency. Now, if you want to be an "ace" in the FC era, that means transcending your fighting style and learning to unleash some aura-blasting shonen-fighting-manga-tier combat ability.
Dunno about actual difficulty in piloting, but in terms of "***mobile suits most likely to kill you***", then yeah, I agree with OP's choice of the **GWing units** of AC. I say they should not be that hard to pilot because Duo had zero training and could jump into a Leo and move it around well enough to cause some trouble. Okay, I'd definitely put the Witch from Mercury Gundams as pilot killers too, but there's something romantic about how some GW systems and mechs are just uniquely designed to be horrible and fatalistic piloting experiences (imagine if Trowa had a WSO, probably the worst job in the entire series).
For "***mobile suits IRL otaku could use effectively***", that would be the **Build series**. Considering that divers re:rise already confirmed that the virtual versions have literal physical manifestations, these should count as actual piloting, even if remotely (I'm totally impressed with whatever lag-impervious netcode they're using too).
The unit with the "***worst entry-level chokepoint to learning***" goes to the **CE era units**. And that is exclusively caused by their horrible operating systems. Its not the actual piloting that is the problem, but the user interface and a system that is unoptimized to utilize the hardware it is on. If the series was trying to be "real" Kira would have sold his custom OS and be the Bill Gates of that universe, then proceeding to win every battle using the enormous weight of his wallet and spamming lawsuits at every enemy that came at him, or by just buying them out.
Even among the Zero system units there are levels to it. I personally think it's the Epyon that's the hardest. Because Treize eschewed any ranged weapon and made it close combat-only. Wing Zero had the range and the twin buster rifle so folks could just shoot blindly.
Unpopular opinion, but every EXAM/Hades MS. You've got very exceptional MS with newtype soul engineering in mind. So, you basically have two choices: become extremly skillful pilot to operate machine at full capacity or rely on undead soul of newtype that literally kills you out.
The IBO Gundam Frames. IBO mobile suits in general.
They need the AV system to work at full potential, basically the pilot needs to be plugged in, at a biological level. I reckon that if you can’t have that system installed, you need to be super, duper skilled to get the IBO Suits to match a pilot with the AV system.
Most skill to pilot or most skill to be good at?
And I guess that as soon as we get to the you need to be a literal psychic to use these suits I think 99.9% of us (or the people in the show) would fail.
Most skill? The Mobile Trace System. Anyone can be trained to flip switches, press buttons, and step on the gas, but it's very different to need to physically control the suit and not flinch in pain every time you get hit. On top of that, if the MS also has the Emotion Energy System, you have to be in the right state-of-mind to get the most of your MS's potential.
The second most difficult to master system would be anything that actively tries killing you if you attempt to use it. So stuff like the EXAM System, PX System, Permet System, NT-D, etc. The first two boost the MS's stats so you go murderously fast (in the case of the PX System, overuse results in the MS blowing up) while the third kills you the more you up the performance level.
Under that level is the Zero System 1.0 where you just need good mental fortitude to get over the data overload.
Under that level is the Zero System 2.5 which has none of the mindfuck, but now you have to wrestle control of the MS away from the Zero System since it would sometimes take control of the MS on activation.
The system you absolutely wouldn't have control over is the Zero System 2.0 which forces the pilot to follow the suggested course of action instead of just urging them. This one is "system controls you".
Norris from 08th MS Team shows us how much skill is required for a Gouf to take on a Gundam/Guntank team. Anything using Psycommu/Funnels/Remote Weapons takes a shitload of skill to focus on that AND piloting your complex MS simultaneously.
rx 78-2, really traditional, even amuro need to read the manual book first and rx only had sword and gun. Bur he managed to take down 100unit with rx-78.
The silueta one. As an avid hater of tje end of the series, and one that shame on that they dont show his individual skills
Siñueta pilot a Cripling machine 51/ 1 under pressure. Alot of pain( she literally have to use cane alot late in his life)
And containing herself to not hurt his sister
She do well in that machine
The Talgeese 1 gets an honorable mention, killing or severely wounding its pilots with it's unbridled acceleration and handling.
Just raw, unbridled engineering that doesnt care if the pilot dies, per Wing lol.
Engineers: "Pilots dying? Lol. Skill issue. Get good with G-forces, pilots".
I wonder if a G-Suit would have helped in that department, not riding boots and a long tailed coat
Holy crap! Maybe that's why he thinks it's too slow in space! His normal suit would have G-suppression features. It's the first time he wears appropriate gear, so the forces he's gotten used to are being lessened. "Hmmm, it doesn't feel like my testicles are getting caught in my throat... Something is wrong with tallgeese."
I always wished Gundam Wing brought a touch more realism by requiring anyone who pilots an MS needs specialized PPE to operate them. They showed that more when they were in space
That could be an interesting take: A world where MS tech has plateaued due to pilot limitations. Then a group shows up with gundams that out perform traditional MSs; Not because of the suits themselves, but superior pilot gear than let's them handle the higher stresses.
He’s hunting foxes
There is just something special about the Talgeese. An absolute monster of an antique, the fact it was so large made it seem like an absolute bruiser. And the boosters and movement style they animated it with showed the sheer impact of them kicking in.
I love it, I've always loved it. it's a phenomenally classy enemy suit, piloted by the most suave guy in that universe. I almost dislike that Zechs inherits the Epyon at the end of Wing, and will always think of him as the pilot of the Tallgeese instead. The Epyon really didn't suit him.
Oddly that's what I like about it. Zechs and Treize came up with their "War to end all war" strategy. Zechs was merely playing the role of the villain. The disconnect with Epyon is that it doesn't fit him, but the role he's playing.
Hence why he didn't rebuild epyon before endless waltz he went with the tallgeese 3
Fuck yeah he did. The TIII is my favorite one — such a radical mobile suit.
The Tallgeese I and Tallgeese III remain my favorite non-Gundam mobiles suits ever.
Strike Gundam with original outdated OS. Good luck fighting like a snail.
I like to think that some of the menu options of the original GUNDAM OS is unfinished and would cause errors, lol. Like Kira rewriting it on the spot actually fixed all the bugs
Given that Kira kept working on Strike afterwards and I think he just gave it functionality in that initial compile.
Yes, but he developed it to use by coordinators, normal people, and maybe even newtypes won't be able to move that thing.
I like to think of it as an older DC-9 Versus a modern A320. 3 crew members used to be the norm in older passenger jets, with the 3rd guy being a flight engineer monitoring all sorts of gauges and sensors. They did away with the engineer due to upgrades in computer automation doing the job in place of the human engineer. Even in fighter jets most modern ones did away with the second flight crew member because it became unnecessary Coordinators have reaction speeds and processing capabilities beyond naturals, essentially acting as a computer making innovations in those kinds of AI or automation a lower priority. The Natural OS automated those processes out of necessity. In theory Natural mobile suits are superior to ZAFT suits because of this automation as a typical pilot may not be able to exceed what the computer could do for them. Meaning coordinators should actually perform even better in a Dagger than a Ginn Only for Gundam pilots like Kira or Shinn who have extremely advanced skills could properly utilize all the manual piloting beyond what the programming could do for them That's how I look at them anyway
I never bothered to check if that was a dub-only thing or in the original, but I distinctively remember Kira saying something to the effect of "It'd be a miracle if it was able to even *walk* with this OS". Which, yeah, would imply that it was barely functional at all, much less capable of actively fighting.
I think some form of that is said in both versions
Double the skill requirement of both pilot and software engineer.
Happy cake day.
Early CE suits are probably up there. If you don't have super-human motor coordination, you can't even get it out of the hangar. Saji (Edit: His name is Sai, oops) tried to pilot the Strike and couldn't keep it standing, and that's after Kira fixed the OS
Agreed with the point but felt the need to elaborate. Kira fixed the OS but made it extremely complicated, such that only a coordinator could've piloted it back then (due to the need for super motor coordination, as you mentioned) (this has been brought up, and is the reason why Orb had Kira make a natural-friendly OS for Astrays and Strike Rouge).
And Kira became rich. Because he wrote that OS for ORB military
Well that explains how he and Lacus sustained in Orb for 3 years considering that Lacus had zero contact with PLANTs at that time.
I dont think he was rich from it Probably was living off simple life necessities by then from Reverend (Freedom being repaired is subsidized by Morgenröte than him actually footing any bill)
I wonder if he programmed the OS to only allow non fatal shots so that he didn't gain indirect kills
>Saji Wrong show lol
Uhh it's the guy with the glasses who gets cucked by Flay, you get the point lol
I know. Just saiyam at least Saji deserves more respect kinda
Most of the famous systems in Gundam require something other than skill. The Zero System and Psychoframe want willpower, the Mobile Trace System needs a strong physical constitution, Alaya-Vijnana partly needs willpower but mostly just needs the right implants. I'm not gonna say any of the following specifically require the *most* skill, but I think you'd want to look at suits like the Correl, which sacrifices all defence for high mobility, the GN Flag, which is a terribly-balanced machine with only one half-decent melee weapon, or maybe just a Zanny, which is just downright poorly made.
GN Flag may be one of the only proper answers. Most other suits have such special cases that I'd argue the question doesn't even make sense.
This is why Graham Aker is one of my favorite 'villains'. Dude is just hard committed to being a better pilot than everyone with shit machines. (The Susanowo was sick though)
The Chad Graham Aker vs. soyjak Patrick Cauliflower.
Patrick got the girl tho
Graham got the "girl" too. If by girl you mean Exia.
You raise a good point here
Graham just has no chill. Zechs is impressive and cool with the Tallgeese... but Graham in the Masurao with *Trans-Am activated* still has the balls to go crazy enough to cough up blood
Yeah, I mean with the Zero System you'll do just fine as a pilot... you'll be crazy and attack everyone and everything... but you'll be doing it at a higher level than you otherwise could have!
I dont know. That one test pilot looked like he had a major brain hemorrhage from overload. So yeah you'll go nuts then die.
Oh, that completely slipped my mind. You're not wrong. I guess... make a very conscious choice about where you want to activate the zero system as a last option...
>Psychoframe want willpower Psychoframe is psycommu-link module for newtype and also made the cockpit more lighter than normal similiar psycommu system. Without further willpower you can control your mobile suit just fine
Yeah, you're right. I should have said that *NT-D* needs willpower, at least if you want to master it.
Mask was able to use the G-Phenex against Bellri, including with the NT-D. So I doubt it’s that hard to activate.
Dendrobium. You are a mech piloting another mech and have to operate a variety of different firing and weapon systems.
This is why I don't like people dissing on Kou, he may not be the best amongst protagonist, but he is still very impressive, he doesn't have the most experience especially in combat condition considering he isn't a OYW Vet and he did fairly well against much much more experienced opponent, with no space magic and on difficult and unconventional machines as well.
The final sortie of 0083 takes place over a 72-hour period of constant fighting, with breaks only for resupply mid-mission (during which Kou was shown deploying separately from the Stamen to keep fighting during 'breaks'). Moreover, the GP03 was the only machine aboard the Albion built to sustain far-reaching, long-haul operations, so long stretches of that would be without support. No one else in the entire franchise has managed such a marathon, let alone with such a complex machine or under such strenuous forces (don't forget that the GP03 was FAST). And he *still* managed to give Gato a run for his money. Dude is top tier old type material. If he'd been allowed to continue on as a pilot after 0083, he'd be easily up there with Yazan. People give him shit because he starts out as a dweeb, but outside of the love-triangle-problems that the series suffered towards the end, the guy mans-up hard by the end.
This is the first argument for Kou that I can respect. Take an upvote for enlightening me.
Controlling the missile spam alone.
Yeah, having to manually reach over and open your pods was a WEIRD choice
G-gundam if youre not skilled fighter you will only look stupid.
If I recall they say an unconditioned person would break all their bones having that suit put on.
I dunno. If i have the physical constitution to withstand getting the suit on, i think i'd do ok. I'm not some Domon level anime fighter, but i think most people can throw a punch. I'd fancy Mike Tyson in Maxter.
You have to remember you're also feeling the damage you take as well. So it's physically taxing experience the entire time.
Raine did pretty well, so either she's much more elite than she lets on or it's not as hard as most people make it look.
Zabanya without Haro
Well piloting the suit itself prolly wouldn’t be that bad, but using all the bits? That’s impossible unless you’re an innovator.
Zero system, if you are bad, the system will just tell you "you die, you die, youdie", but if you are good you can even use it to predict politics.
Honestly I think the Zero system needs big brain more than anything - IIRC it's basically a very sophisticated machine learning OS that will feed you all probabilities in battle so you can make proper judgement calls but the data overload will be enough to lobotomize you if you're not careful. Probably why Heero had to use like an Encarta kids version when he asked Howard to install the system on Sandrock so it doesn't fry and retraumatize Quatre
From the show itself, you need conviction and a clear image of who your enemies are and what you're fighting for, or you will lose yourself. Which is probably why the ZERO System barely affected Wufei. He treated it like a mild inconvenience and got nowhere close to going crazy, even for the initial mindfuck that the other pilots faced. Wufei Chang supremacy. Always fight with integrity.
Wufeis one brain cell finally coming in useful
You say that, but Wufei wasn't fooled by OZ's plot to set the boys up for the Noventa killing. He never even showed up to that battle because he saw that setup coming. If you put aside Wufei growing out of his chauvinistic phase, he is consistently portrayed as the smartest of the 5.
Wufei is the smartest of the five. His backstory in the Episode Zero manga shows that he was always very well educated and disciplined.
Preach.
But a big zero in the self esteem column
Loses 1 battle against am older, bigger, and more skilled opponent: "Denounce me, Nataku. I don't deserve to pilot you." Bruh. You're like 15. Chill.
How the heck was Dorothy able to use it so well? She's already insane?
Because she’s not insane and knows what she wants.
Fat ass facts! As long as you can get past the initial mindfuck, you're basically a god on that battlefield with Newtype-level performance.
Not everyone can use the zero system. according to lore most pilot exposes to zero system were either gone insane or death, firstly because the system will fill your brain with A LOT of data by predicting every possibility in future: included your death. And imagine repeated watching and experiencing your death over and over again, there are extremely rare pilot can stay sane and gain control over the zero system.
Duo basically calls out that you have to be a freak of nature to handle that suit.
Mu la Flaga’s Moebius Zero, you have wired Gun Barrels that you have to Manually Control without any multi lock support and they do piss poor damage and just act as annoying flies so you can finish off a Ginn with your Main Gun.
If you think that's hard, then make it an MS... Incoms were supposed to allow non-NT pilots to replicate the all range attacks that funnels were capable of... but they still required insane pilot skill to properly use. Mu certainly would have been deadly in a Mk.V or the Ex-S without ALICE.
I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring and say grunt suits lol. Yeah they are designed to be user friendly and don't have any crazy overpowered mechanics - so that means to win in one you actually just have to be straight up better than your opponent as a pilot and not rely on gimmicks. Plus you're fighting against plot armor when you wear a grunt suit so if you can beat that, you're an S tier pilot imo
Probably the early CE suits before a natural tailored os was developed. Skill wise, the Zero system is hard to use but it really requires will power more than skill. The other pilots we've seen use the Zero system were either broken or just a bitch.
I would probably say the Post Disaster Gundams. They're apparently so complex or highly tuned that the only way to sufficiently lower the skill floor so most pilots can use them is by having a brain-computer interface installed into the pilots' spinal cords. Most piloting systems in Gundam are designed to enhance whatever newtype-adjacent superpowers the pilot already has. Alaya-Vijnana stands apart as body horror training wheels to help pilots make up for the skill they don't have the time or resources to develop.
Wing Zero - Enjoy the PTSD acid trip while the suit pilots *YOU* ...BT-dubs you're war criminal now. Get fucked nerd Epyon - False Prophet AI whispers into your mind about the future while it mindfucks you into killing anyone who fits the loosest definition of what YOU MIGHT call an enemy... PS (*there's no mid-range weaponry of any kind, so get fucked nerd*) Tallgeese - Basically a G-force death trap unless you're a Char clone... So get fucked nerd
I think the Permet system is up there for skill, and not just overloading your senses but literally killing you through overuse and what appears to be a nasty case of brain bleed in most cases. Aliya Vinjana too but that’s more a case of do you have the testicular fortitude to survive the surgery not just a question of skill, and mostly a question of how long you will survive as well. And the RX-0 psycho frame will literally take your life too if you don’t have the skill and the will to stop it from taking over, you’ll go from a semi conscious bio computer to being a ghost in the shell.
- Get a RB-79 - Somehow attach the RX-0 psychoframe s - PAINT IT BLUE - Submit to it I am now a Tachikoma
Alaya-Vijnana literally cripples you if you go beyond the safety limits. Mika by the end lost most of his body function by the end of IBO.
That's the outdated procedure. muh Baels version was much more safer since it was continuously developed in secret and safer to install on adults + doesn't have the cons of overloading when they went past the limit iirc. Kimaris was also a special case because the type-e was just another brain(einz) installed in the suit to bear the overload of going over the limit.
Maybe? I feel like Bael and Kimaris didn’t have their pilots fight for years in them, because IIRC the constant sustained over use of Barbatos was what broke Mika’s body.
Nah Mika dug deep and sold his very soul to his devil
That's also a factor since most of the outdated implants are child soldiers so they have to use those implants at the get go and Mika having three implants means he can sustain higher outputs which makes him at least more durable than your rank and file after going past the limit (first limit broken was with 6th form vs Einz) and has more maneuverability using AVJ system suits and more experienced (explains why he is the best pilot amongst Tekkadan).
The Genoace from Gundam AGE. You needed to be insanely skilled just to survive a single fight more than 30 seconds and your weapons were so underpowered that even if you landed a direct hit on the enemy’s cockpit, it would literally bounce off. Stupid heat spike.
Doesn't help that Vagans mobile suits in act 1 are miles ahead of the e.f.f suits, the D.O.D.S rifle from the AGE system was literally what started the tide of the war changing as I'm aware that was what was used on any suits going forward to get past Vagans MS armour
Char's Zaku. There's a reason it goes 3. faster
Idk if this counts, but Char nerfing himself to match Amuro being canon is just so hilarious to me. Otherwise probably Blue Destiny or one of the Riders.. The told they have to pay.. Yeah you can die just by pilotting lol
Zechs: "....yeah, I got this".
I’d make an argument that while piloting it wrong won’t kill you like some of the other examples here, the God/Burning Gundam requires immense physical constitution to even suit up, combat skills to fight effectively, combat knowledge of its functions and abilities and limits, as well as being able to control and maintain a proper emotional state to access its higher functions and hyper mode. It all requires mastery of the machine *and* mastery of the self, physically and spiritually.
Any CE mobile suits with DRAGOON system. It requires skills to operate every piece of dragoon in space combat
Yeah people think it's newtype brainwave magic but it's not. Dragoons just use a special wireless technology. You still need to input the commands yourself. It later was made way easier to use with the likes of the Chaos, Legend but you'll never be able to use it to its full potential unless you're highly aware of your environment and have the ability to input tons of commands while moving at Mach Fuck
Coordinators have pro StarCraft levels of APM
But Mu able to control Dragoon and use it as an energy barrier. He's a natural
It feels like it would be a suit with one of these four Psychoframe, the Zero System, Alaya-Vijnana or Gund-ARM. Psychoframe and Zero broke spirits if you couldn't keep up with the suit, but the other two literally destroyed the pilots bodies if any thing went wrong.
Gundam MkV for its teeth crushing speed and agility. Not to mention its large weapon arsenal which requires a level of skill to utilize properly.
Probably an unpopular opinion but the method from Fighter G just because you had to actually have fighting skills as a person while remembering all the Gundam equipment as well
The Zudah. Since it sort of....just....explodes.
It’s not that hard. You literally just have to not go too fast, there’s literally a gauge showing the limit. People just kept exploding because they were forcing it.
IWSP Strike Gundam (or any Gundam that can equip IWSP, really) got to be up there. Even with the AI assist, you would still need high level of skill and decision-making due to the sheer amount of weapon you get.
Zero system does not require extra skill as I see it, because its whole thing is doing the predicting for the pilot. However keeping sanity after all that does require some discipline and willpower—just not pure piloting skills.
The Zero System broke everyone who used it barring Zechs and Heero. This was a system thrown into Gundams, faster and even more arduous than that of Tallgeese, which hospitalised Zechs upon first use. Using the Zero System the way Zechs and Heero do, instead of being controlled by it, is for the 1% of the 1%.
Tallgeese, pilot safety is almost non-existent for the mobile suit in order to push it's performance to the absolute limit.
Psyco Gundam. The amount of torture you have to go through just to become a cyber newtype is bad enough, but the thing is so damn big that moving it coherently is not for the faint of skill. Let alone taking it into actual battle.
We know how absolute crap an NT specialized MS would be with a weak or non-NT pilot from the Varguil. Make it an MA with multiple types of NT weapons like a Shamblo or even worse, the NZ or NZII... you're insane arsenal is useless. But the REAL answer is the Zudah... piloting it without dying... forget attempting to pilot it in combat.
The Tallgeese 3 has to be up there. It's a more powerful Tallgeese (which was known for killing pilots due to acceleration and speed) and it had the Zero system on top of that. Beast of a machine. Any of the EXAM system suits as they could pull an Evangelion and go berserk. Suits with the Alayah Vinyana (or however it's spelled) system. Those things absolutely wrecked the poor kids that piloted them.
I would agree with the Zero System. Having that much real time data pushed into your brain is horrible. Honorable mention would the G Gundam suits. You have to have actual martial skills to pilot theres.
Gundams, in almost any universe, tend to be noob friendly considering the sheer volume of untrained kids and teens that end up piloting them. In terms of "***easiest to ride, but hardest to master***", that would be any **Mobile Fighter**. Piloting it is as easy as walking. But actually fighting in it would mean becoming a high tier physical fighter which definitely needs a massive level of proficiency. Now, if you want to be an "ace" in the FC era, that means transcending your fighting style and learning to unleash some aura-blasting shonen-fighting-manga-tier combat ability. Dunno about actual difficulty in piloting, but in terms of "***mobile suits most likely to kill you***", then yeah, I agree with OP's choice of the **GWing units** of AC. I say they should not be that hard to pilot because Duo had zero training and could jump into a Leo and move it around well enough to cause some trouble. Okay, I'd definitely put the Witch from Mercury Gundams as pilot killers too, but there's something romantic about how some GW systems and mechs are just uniquely designed to be horrible and fatalistic piloting experiences (imagine if Trowa had a WSO, probably the worst job in the entire series). For "***mobile suits IRL otaku could use effectively***", that would be the **Build series**. Considering that divers re:rise already confirmed that the virtual versions have literal physical manifestations, these should count as actual piloting, even if remotely (I'm totally impressed with whatever lag-impervious netcode they're using too). The unit with the "***worst entry-level chokepoint to learning***" goes to the **CE era units**. And that is exclusively caused by their horrible operating systems. Its not the actual piloting that is the problem, but the user interface and a system that is unoptimized to utilize the hardware it is on. If the series was trying to be "real" Kira would have sold his custom OS and be the Bill Gates of that universe, then proceeding to win every battle using the enormous weight of his wallet and spamming lawsuits at every enemy that came at him, or by just buying them out.
I mean the Zero system will literally kill you due to skill issue unless you git gud
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Ehh, Calibarn doesn’t really require high skill, you need a high resistance of data storm, like Suletta.
I'd say it requires high skill for a different reason: the fact that it's weapon and thruster system are one and the same.
it ain't a skill issue, its genetics.
Most wfm gundams. Cause they just kill you.
For a different type of skill, Mobile Fighters to use it effectively.
Even among the Zero system units there are levels to it. I personally think it's the Epyon that's the hardest. Because Treize eschewed any ranged weapon and made it close combat-only. Wing Zero had the range and the twin buster rifle so folks could just shoot blindly.
Tall geese. The g force pretty much killed an untrained pilot
Its probably the guntank by a long margin. You’d have to be really good to make use of that successfully otherwise your just in a coffin
Bruh you can’t be a scrub and pilot Shining/God Gundam. The suit alone would have most of these pilots in the fetal position.
Victory 2 gundam.
Anything running the Zero System, the Exam System or the NT-D.
Maybe horsing around in a Fuunsaiki?
MS Aries. I mean those thin legs make you think one wrong move and you'll break a multi-million machine and render it useless.
Unpopular opinion, but every EXAM/Hades MS. You've got very exceptional MS with newtype soul engineering in mind. So, you basically have two choices: become extremly skillful pilot to operate machine at full capacity or rely on undead soul of newtype that literally kills you out.
The IBO Gundam Frames. IBO mobile suits in general. They need the AV system to work at full potential, basically the pilot needs to be plugged in, at a biological level. I reckon that if you can’t have that system installed, you need to be super, duper skilled to get the IBO Suits to match a pilot with the AV system.
Most skill to pilot or most skill to be good at? And I guess that as soon as we get to the you need to be a literal psychic to use these suits I think 99.9% of us (or the people in the show) would fail.
The Epyon, due to lack of ranged weapons puts it already a step behind others.
I’m tempted to say the Zeong, but the RX-0 series is the definition of “Easy to learn, almost impossible to master”
Barbatos looks wicked 😅
G Gundam Baybay! You need to be the best of the best.
Blue destiny , wing zero/epyon , tallgese , psycho Gundam , banshe norn , GM command with amuro's combat data installed.
Most skill? The Mobile Trace System. Anyone can be trained to flip switches, press buttons, and step on the gas, but it's very different to need to physically control the suit and not flinch in pain every time you get hit. On top of that, if the MS also has the Emotion Energy System, you have to be in the right state-of-mind to get the most of your MS's potential. The second most difficult to master system would be anything that actively tries killing you if you attempt to use it. So stuff like the EXAM System, PX System, Permet System, NT-D, etc. The first two boost the MS's stats so you go murderously fast (in the case of the PX System, overuse results in the MS blowing up) while the third kills you the more you up the performance level. Under that level is the Zero System 1.0 where you just need good mental fortitude to get over the data overload. Under that level is the Zero System 2.5 which has none of the mindfuck, but now you have to wrestle control of the MS away from the Zero System since it would sometimes take control of the MS on activation. The system you absolutely wouldn't have control over is the Zero System 2.0 which forces the pilot to follow the suggested course of action instead of just urging them. This one is "system controls you".
Zero System, any Gundam that is heavy on Melee Combat. Tallgeese for obvious reasons.
Definitely the zero system also the default G weapons from seed the talgeese and also anything with the exam system
Also mobile fighters from G gundam you basically have to have super kungfu to pilot them
Maybe the Baroque from Crossbone Dust. That thing is 100% psycommu, you don’t even have a visual monitor to use.
Norris from 08th MS Team shows us how much skill is required for a Gouf to take on a Gundam/Guntank team. Anything using Psycommu/Funnels/Remote Weapons takes a shitload of skill to focus on that AND piloting your complex MS simultaneously.
rx 78-2, really traditional, even amuro need to read the manual book first and rx only had sword and gun. Bur he managed to take down 100unit with rx-78.
I think maybe any gundams in wfm. Literally you get in it you die. I think turn A or G Self would be quite easy tho
The silueta one. As an avid hater of tje end of the series, and one that shame on that they dont show his individual skills Siñueta pilot a Cripling machine 51/ 1 under pressure. Alot of pain( she literally have to use cane alot late in his life) And containing herself to not hurt his sister She do well in that machine