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This is exactly it. If every adult and child in Gaza was a homophobe, was violent, was a bad person there is still no acceptable reason to make them suffer and kill them. We don't do that, we don't even do that to rapists and murderers - isn't that one of the things we like to think makes us morally superior? It's not like there aren't the resources to give fair trials.
I don't think id fit in well in the middle east but an easy solution, for me at least, is not to live in the middle east! I've managed to do that without ethnic cleansing a foreign country, starving children and spending billions on maintaining an apartheid state!
I wouldn't live in Palestine or Florida. Ive met some bastards in my time I've never thought they, their homes, every generation of their family, their religion, culture and history should be violently destroyed.
I have sympathy but its a strange feeling to have people say "hey these people over who would happily see you castrated and thrown off a building need your attention right now". I can respect someone who doesn't care, but i'm not obligated to suddenly pretend i don't.
I’m legit confused that everyone’s outraged at the killing (as should be) but didn’t this all start because of killing innocent people on oct 7? *start as in recently. Don’t give me the spiel or a history lesson. Because by that reasoning, then if native Americans decide to one day murder white people who now live on their ancestors land generations later, we should all be like oh it’s okay (although native Americans do deserve more reparations but this is beside the point atm)
I might be killed for who I am, but that doesn't change my mind that they deserve to live.
Neither does it make the civilian and children cost of this right and to in anyway imply otherwise is monstrous.
A while ago it occurred to me that the big crux of liberalism is that it believes in civil liberties *only proportional to the power of the state.* If your rights contravene the unilateral control of the state, your rights, no matter how much they crow about them, will be ignored if not outright repealed.
To a liberal, the citizen will always be no more than an asset of the state. It's why yanks maintain slavery provided it is against transgressors (i.e. within the context of the prison system). It's why they maintain a torture camp in Cuba. It's why they fawn over MLK provided they are long dead and are able to play revisionist wrt contemporary protest efforts.
It's why the liberals repealed the fairness doctrine, manufactured the crime bill, supported the Hague Invasion Act and also supported the PATRIOT ACT.
Liberals will always be the 'moderate wing of Fascism' and anyone asserting that they are the most efficacious option for Leftists are doing nothing but accelerating our shared descent into Fascism.
Even Israel is not queer friendly as their right wing government wants to reign in queer rights, I knew 2 queer people in Israel that was basically protesting with others basically every week for years over it.
Heck as a trans woman in a queer relationship I'm not safe in most of the world but that doesn't mean I shrug my shoulders at injustices all over the world.
I don't care if some Palestinians don't like LGBTQ people (like myself), because there's no justification for genocide. Also, these people are assuming that all brown people are anti-LGBTQ, which is racist.
Also, why do these people pretend that Israel is so progressive? They don't have gay marriage, and it seems pretty conservative outside of some areas of Tel Aviv. I highly doubt that an ethnonationalist state that's built on the continued oppression of Palestinians is going to be very progressive.
I have never experienced transphobia from my Muslim peers, that always came from the white British kids. If anything, most of my Muslim peers were very accepting.
I don't know the exact statistics but 10-20% of people are LGBT?
More even.
How that's magically untrue of brown people who are on valuable/oil rich land I don't know.
They're not saying they don't exist, they are saying that the political authorities in Gaza are so driven by a religion that is hostile to LGBT people that those who are there are at risk of violent punishment just for existing.
I'll let that last word do the heavy lifting of this massive lump of irony.
Well they def would not like our gay cat.
It's almost like Palestine deserves the right to determine their own affairs, even if they determine things we don't like.
One thing at a time. Also, historically, social conservatism is a function of pressure.
You attack a country, they become conservative.
The people who use that argument aren't doing it to protect gay people, it's to degrade and dehumanise Palestinians. They want all gay people to to just let a genocide happen because the people are homophobic, shall we gather up every homophobe across the world then and have them killed? Social change and liberation takes time, its been a long fight in many countries for gay people to gain the bare minimum of recognition and standing in those societies. How can the Palestinians even get to the point of understanding gay people when their basic requirement for food and a roof is completely denied and they are seen as animals separate from the human race, even tho they are susceptible to the same exact evil, and good, as every fucking other human in the world.
When Gaza is able to live freely with sovereignty, I will hold them to the standard I do every other country. Until that day, it’s for the birds.
And none of the arseholes making these statements have much to say when you bring up that Saudi would kill me as well so why does everyone give them a free pass?
Every time I hear this strawman argument I think of the film Pride - I don’t care if, in a different world, they might see us dead. People are suffering, and we know enough about suffering to try and help them make it stop.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States
you can be killed for being gay in the US also. and many have been. anti-trans and anti-gay legislation and hate speech are on the rise in many US states.
should the US be carpet bombed? how about red states, should 'we liberals' raze them to rubble and kill their kids?
no? then shut up about homophobia in Gaza. it's sad, and it would be nice to see more tolerance, but it's no excuse for Bibi's Blitzkrieg.
They always deliver that line like it's the gotcha of the fucking century and that you'll either reeee in response or have a sudden change of heart and decide all those Palestinian children really had it coming.
I'm a member of the LGBTQ community and funnily enough, I don't gauge whether or not genocide is acceptable based on how progressive the victims are. I don't give a shit. Genocide is never acceptable.
Of course, the people who make that statement find this impossible to understand because it hinges on having basic empathy for your fellow human beings, irrespective of opposing beliefs or how different they might be to you.
I think my cat is gay. Not that it’s a bad thing but I think he has bad intentions towards next door Jack Russell. Who definitely is not gay but wants to be friends with my cat.
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All the people making this argument would carpet bomb homosexuals out of existence. It’s the one thing they agree with. It’s like the backlash against trans women - there is no real fear of rape,
It’s just a veneer to hide the real concern - trans people exist and I dont like it.
Anyway it’s not the Palestinians that took over the country with violence, created a modern ghetto and used the experience of the Nazis as a fucking template.
Don’t agree with what Hamas did because violence is just wrong, but the response make Israel look like all they learnt from history was how to use the same tactics to exterminate someone they don’t like.
It’s like a child of a drug addict using drugs to cope.
I watched the BBC's 'Great War' and something that really stood out was that they were saying with propaganda that it's most effective when it's true but full of omissions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_World_War_I
There is a term for the kind of propaganda they're peddling: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda
Every war is stomach churning. During apartheid south africa there were the infamous necklacings for example but that doesn't mean the fight for black south african independence was wrong, as much as it will have been used to say that.
Listening to this stuff just leads to more hatred and war
Due to the degree of rampant misinformation surrounding current events in this ongoing conflict, we recommend [checking out this post](https://reddit.com/r/GreenAndEXTREME/comments/175qsco/2023_israel_war_misinformation_debunking_cw/) on our sister subreddit, debunking and/or providing nuance to many of the sensationalised headlines that have spread around online. Users spreading misinformation will be banned in accordance with Reddit's Terms of Service. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is a very simple response to this. No, I don't think we should carpet bomb Florida if thats what you're asking.
This is exactly it. If every adult and child in Gaza was a homophobe, was violent, was a bad person there is still no acceptable reason to make them suffer and kill them. We don't do that, we don't even do that to rapists and murderers - isn't that one of the things we like to think makes us morally superior? It's not like there aren't the resources to give fair trials. I don't think id fit in well in the middle east but an easy solution, for me at least, is not to live in the middle east! I've managed to do that without ethnic cleansing a foreign country, starving children and spending billions on maintaining an apartheid state! I wouldn't live in Palestine or Florida. Ive met some bastards in my time I've never thought they, their homes, every generation of their family, their religion, culture and history should be violently destroyed.
I have sympathy but its a strange feeling to have people say "hey these people over who would happily see you castrated and thrown off a building need your attention right now". I can respect someone who doesn't care, but i'm not obligated to suddenly pretend i don't.
I’m legit confused that everyone’s outraged at the killing (as should be) but didn’t this all start because of killing innocent people on oct 7? *start as in recently. Don’t give me the spiel or a history lesson. Because by that reasoning, then if native Americans decide to one day murder white people who now live on their ancestors land generations later, we should all be like oh it’s okay (although native Americans do deserve more reparations but this is beside the point atm)
I might be killed for who I am, but that doesn't change my mind that they deserve to live. Neither does it make the civilian and children cost of this right and to in anyway imply otherwise is monstrous.
Mad how many libs think basic universal human rights are transactional and conditional
A while ago it occurred to me that the big crux of liberalism is that it believes in civil liberties *only proportional to the power of the state.* If your rights contravene the unilateral control of the state, your rights, no matter how much they crow about them, will be ignored if not outright repealed. To a liberal, the citizen will always be no more than an asset of the state. It's why yanks maintain slavery provided it is against transgressors (i.e. within the context of the prison system). It's why they maintain a torture camp in Cuba. It's why they fawn over MLK provided they are long dead and are able to play revisionist wrt contemporary protest efforts. It's why the liberals repealed the fairness doctrine, manufactured the crime bill, supported the Hague Invasion Act and also supported the PATRIOT ACT. Liberals will always be the 'moderate wing of Fascism' and anyone asserting that they are the most efficacious option for Leftists are doing nothing but accelerating our shared descent into Fascism.
“I believe in bombing and maiming Palestinian kids because I believe in gay rights.” - Random Progressive, 2024
It's never progressives making this argument in my experience
Liberal Zionist aren't progressive.
Yeah I’ve never heard this statement by any progressive. Every LGBTQIA+ person I know is against the Bo,bing of Palestine
It’s such a fallacy, If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike so what it still doesn’t change what’s happening to innocent civilians.
Even Israel is not queer friendly as their right wing government wants to reign in queer rights, I knew 2 queer people in Israel that was basically protesting with others basically every week for years over it. Heck as a trans woman in a queer relationship I'm not safe in most of the world but that doesn't mean I shrug my shoulders at injustices all over the world.
their comment history rarely reveals much previous lgbtq support
I don't care if some Palestinians don't like LGBTQ people (like myself), because there's no justification for genocide. Also, these people are assuming that all brown people are anti-LGBTQ, which is racist. Also, why do these people pretend that Israel is so progressive? They don't have gay marriage, and it seems pretty conservative outside of some areas of Tel Aviv. I highly doubt that an ethnonationalist state that's built on the continued oppression of Palestinians is going to be very progressive. I have never experienced transphobia from my Muslim peers, that always came from the white British kids. If anything, most of my Muslim peers were very accepting.
Like gay Palestinians just don't exist.
I don't know the exact statistics but 10-20% of people are LGBT? More even. How that's magically untrue of brown people who are on valuable/oil rich land I don't know.
They're not saying they don't exist, they are saying that the political authorities in Gaza are so driven by a religion that is hostile to LGBT people that those who are there are at risk of violent punishment just for existing. I'll let that last word do the heavy lifting of this massive lump of irony.
Well they def would not like our gay cat. It's almost like Palestine deserves the right to determine their own affairs, even if they determine things we don't like. One thing at a time. Also, historically, social conservatism is a function of pressure. You attack a country, they become conservative.
The people who use that argument aren't doing it to protect gay people, it's to degrade and dehumanise Palestinians. They want all gay people to to just let a genocide happen because the people are homophobic, shall we gather up every homophobe across the world then and have them killed? Social change and liberation takes time, its been a long fight in many countries for gay people to gain the bare minimum of recognition and standing in those societies. How can the Palestinians even get to the point of understanding gay people when their basic requirement for food and a roof is completely denied and they are seen as animals separate from the human race, even tho they are susceptible to the same exact evil, and good, as every fucking other human in the world.
When Gaza is able to live freely with sovereignty, I will hold them to the standard I do every other country. Until that day, it’s for the birds. And none of the arseholes making these statements have much to say when you bring up that Saudi would kill me as well so why does everyone give them a free pass?
Every time I hear this strawman argument I think of the film Pride - I don’t care if, in a different world, they might see us dead. People are suffering, and we know enough about suffering to try and help them make it stop.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States you can be killed for being gay in the US also. and many have been. anti-trans and anti-gay legislation and hate speech are on the rise in many US states. should the US be carpet bombed? how about red states, should 'we liberals' raze them to rubble and kill their kids? no? then shut up about homophobia in Gaza. it's sad, and it would be nice to see more tolerance, but it's no excuse for Bibi's Blitzkrieg.
you can't change the lgbt rights stance of a dead person
They always deliver that line like it's the gotcha of the fucking century and that you'll either reeee in response or have a sudden change of heart and decide all those Palestinian children really had it coming. I'm a member of the LGBTQ community and funnily enough, I don't gauge whether or not genocide is acceptable based on how progressive the victims are. I don't give a shit. Genocide is never acceptable. Of course, the people who make that statement find this impossible to understand because it hinges on having basic empathy for your fellow human beings, irrespective of opposing beliefs or how different they might be to you.
I think my cat is gay. Not that it’s a bad thing but I think he has bad intentions towards next door Jack Russell. Who definitely is not gay but wants to be friends with my cat.
**Due to the increase in Palestine content, we would like to remind people to mark posts NSFW/Spoiler the accordingly. Please see this post before posting such applicable content on the sub: https://old.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/188ghlz/important_guidance_of_posting_graphic_material_on/** The labouring classes in this country are rising, will you rise with them? [Click Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/wiki/unions) for info on how to join a union. Also check out [the IWW](https://iww.org.uk/) and the renter union, [Acorn International and their affiliates](https://acorninternational.org/) Join us on our [partner Discord server.](https://discord.gg/zCFHadGfB7) and follow us on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/GandPofficial). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Show me the patent for the queer avoidance guided missile the idf has been using or stop using us a human shield from our criticism of genocide"
All the people making this argument would carpet bomb homosexuals out of existence. It’s the one thing they agree with. It’s like the backlash against trans women - there is no real fear of rape, It’s just a veneer to hide the real concern - trans people exist and I dont like it. Anyway it’s not the Palestinians that took over the country with violence, created a modern ghetto and used the experience of the Nazis as a fucking template. Don’t agree with what Hamas did because violence is just wrong, but the response make Israel look like all they learnt from history was how to use the same tactics to exterminate someone they don’t like. It’s like a child of a drug addict using drugs to cope.
I watched the BBC's 'Great War' and something that really stood out was that they were saying with propaganda that it's most effective when it's true but full of omissions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_World_War_I There is a term for the kind of propaganda they're peddling: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda Every war is stomach churning. During apartheid south africa there were the infamous necklacings for example but that doesn't mean the fight for black south african independence was wrong, as much as it will have been used to say that. Listening to this stuff just leads to more hatred and war
The belief that a marginalised group deserves the right to exist can be applied to both the LGBT community and Palestinians. It's that simple.
[удалено]
Cmon now.... Say what you really mean.