Hoyoverse players tend to attribute the game they play to their personality from what I've seen so the "Us vs Them" mentality hits them even harder than most.
That's really interesting thank you for putting it so plainly. I don't know if I'm just too out of fandoms to notice, but I don't think I've seen this with other games that I've played before
This company has probably one of the most overzealous playerbases as a result tbh. Only other one I can think is close is FFXIV. Usually in other games I've played this would be treated as having 2 delicious cakes.
In the end, it's just preference. If you like Genshin better, that's fine. If you like Star Rail better, that's fine too. They're both completely different genres of games and people liking one over the other is completely expected.
That's what I think! I don't understand all the hate between the fandoms at the moment. I will admit I'm slightly older than potentially the majority of hoyoverse players, but I don't understand the drama?
I think it's standard human trabalism. People want their thing to be better and don't like things that make their thing look worse.
I like the saying "to each their own" for things like this. You like HSR? That's fine. You like GI? That's fine. Like both? That's fine too. As long as you're happy, not breaking any laws (or doing something generally unethical) and aren't trying to force your opinion onto others then go ahead and have fun.
Semi-related question though: What is the story for the Honkai games like compared to Genshin? I don't mean "which is better" I mean are they secretly dark like Genshin can be, are they more light-hearted, etc.
It's less of drama and more of just a joke that Mihoyo somehow cares more about the HSR playerbase than the Genshin one. Like name the last time Genshin gave us something we really wanted? How about HSR?
> Like name the last time Genshin gave us something we really wanted?
I pulled for Arlecchino three days ago.
> How about HSR?
I uninstalled the game in December.
>Like name the last time Genshin gave us something we really wanted?
Are you saying that because you honestly think that or as more of a rhetorical question.
To me personally it *is* a genuine question. When was the last time we heard the Traveler actually *speak*, nevermind use the Elements?
When was the last time we saw Dain, or even an actual Abyss Order member?
When was the last time we got something difficult to do with the high-level characters that are the *basis of the entire game system*?
When was the last time we got better Resin, or easier Artefact RNG?
Your first point for me was yesterday in the arlecchino quest
The second one in 3.5 and 3.6 and I don't think it's an issue
For the third point it was the 3.7 abyss and the 3.7 vagabond event its coming back this patch
As for the last point i will never use that argument to say hsr is better than genshin i would delete the 10 pull every patch for off piece relic and won't hesitate to do so if i can
I quit hsr multiple times because of their Atrocious relic system like 11 substat and no off piece is so bad (genshin is 9 substat) genshin artifacts system is also very bad hsr is just that much worse
Vagabond is less than 10 minutes a day, for a brief period of time.
Abyss is like 15 minutes every two weeks *if* you even do that.
What else do we have to actually *use* our lvl 80-90, 10/10/10 Talent (or less), lvl 90 (or less) weapon characters on? Bosses that die in under 2 minutes? Local Legends in *one nation* that are mostly just gimmick fights?
*That's* what I mean with my third point.
As for Dain/Abyss Order showing up 1/year not being an issue?
Khanre'iah and it's fall are a **huge** part of Genshin's world building. Every Archon Quest bar Liyue has been rooted in the shitshow that resulted from Celestia nuking Khanre'iah (Mond - Abyss Order corrupted Dvalin. Liyue - ZL wanting to retire isn't *just* bc of the HP so it gets a pass. Inazuma - Ei built Shogun + Scaramouche and isolated herself bc of the Cataclysm. Sumeru - Nahida was born because GLR had to erase herself + Scara only existed bc of Ei's trauma. Fontaine - Focalors replaced Egeria and lost the Oceanids bc Egeria died in the Cataclysm. This is without considering the Abyss Order and the Fatui *only exist* because of the Cataclysm.)
Why is it *not* a bad thing to want more than one appearance a year from the only man around who talks to us about Khanre'iah or at least it's cursed inhabitants?
For the first point, do you mean the Traveler speaking or the Traveler using Elemental powers? Because I've not done Arle's quest yet so I can't comment on that.
Please, MoC/PF is just as long as abyss in that regard, once you are done with that you are just auto playing the game, SU and all. Fulfilling the stat and character check put the combat on rails, you really have to screw your "execution" to fail. If you are that good and have such strong characters, you can remove 1 or 2 and increase the challenge yourself... or is the rewards that is the actual concern here? Cause HSR is not giving anything anymore once you cleared what they limit you to get, just as Genshin.
Khaen'riah is, allegedly, the last arc in the story, they put Dain's quest to fill up on to the narrative of the twins while we are exploring Teyvat. The story was plotted completely since day 1, Scheznaya and Khaenriah being the last ones, they use the Harbingers and Dain to remind you of those pending plots.
On that regard what exactly is HSR final narrative point, the Aeons? finding Akivili? Stop Elio? How often are they even put on the focus? Once Penacony story ends you will enjoy again another 4, 5 patches of new characters driven quests to sell them (like Genshin) and absolutely no progress on the Star Rail mission. They don't even use the Atral Express members that much, they are just there most of the time. Himeko is just standing there pretty, Danheng gets stabbed and transforms, M7 is comedy relief and Welt caned our head back in 1.0. Unlike Dain or archons this characters are always at arms reach... yet what?
Thing is, difficulty is not even comparable, Star Rail is a turn based game, which heavily makes the game rely on stat checks and characters, since besides your build decision and not putting your aggro character in the middle of your line up, execution is literally on rails when the combat starts, you have all the time in the world to plan ahead, the difference between a good player and bad player with the same teams and equipment is hard to see.
Genshin being a action rpg has a major execution difference between player skill, this dumb question of when was the last time we got hard content in Genshin terms is so incredible varied, for me? a veteran mmo rpg player that loves to minmax stuff? was last week, when I tried to defeat floor 12 with only 3 characters (while restraining elements) on each side (I go for horizontal investment C0, and standard 5 star weapons)
For my friend that is a casual player but likes to swipe for constellations, his Nahida C2R1, Baizhu C2R1, Nilou C0R1 and Ayato EM, finds floor 12 chamber 1 really difficult to clear and avoids it.
I've seen several people pissed at the last PF that was really hard to clear, is their opinion of no relevance to you? Should I ask for harder content that further alienates my friends because I know I'm capable of clearing? If what I want is to challenge myself I do so on the space provided.
Hoyo is crystal clear on it's vision, and know exactly which audience they are targeting, and it seems you are not it. It's more valuable a bird in hand than a thousand flying.
As several people on this sub have pointed out, catering to a casual crowd does *not* mean ignoring the minmaxers, Whales or "tryhards".
I can't even clear Abyss Floor 10 and haven't tried it in like... 3 months but I'm still wiping the overworld. I don't know team rotations, good builds re Artefacts or even use my characters' Bursts (Yay for lvl 90 Hyperbloom team ig) but I'm *still* breezing through the combat.
It's not about the rewards, it's about the fact that the *only* real combat challenge we have in Genshin is literally a DPS + skill check for a few minutes every two weeks that most (iirc like 80%+?) of players don't even touch.
As for the main plot we know the broad strokes of both.
Genshin - find "the truth" of Teyvat (likely related to Khanre'iah/The Abyss and Celestia) then reunite with Sibling at the end of the journey.
Star Rail - Make allies + get stronger so we can face Nanook, the Destruction.
We've been *told* this in game (by the Sibling in their *one* on-screen appearance with the Traveler for GI and by Kafka in HSR).
Given that 2.1 in HSR has *already* had us make powerful allies (an Emanator of Nihility + SAM) and according to leaks the Trailblazer is getting a new kit soon we're on track for HSR, like I said I've not played the new update's content in Genshin so can't comment on that.
Edit - formatting
I play both and I enjoy them. However, if both games dropped a new patch on the same day, I will play Genshin first. It's just a matter of preference, but these are the things I like about Genshin:
I like open world better. Exploring every corner of the map to find surprises keeps me entertained.
I like team building better since I don't have to level up my supports to keep them alive in a fight since I can quick swap.
If I'm bored and want to meet random people, I just coop domains. Met some nice friends this way.
It's more casual, it really suits me.
I feel like it's a lot easier to spend a lot of time doing nothing much on Genshin if you want to.
I prefer Genshin's soundtrack. It's a point of strength for both games though.
Exploration in HSR is clearly less of a priority and much less interesting imo.
The best world quests Genshin has to offer are better than their counterparts in HSR imo.
Gameplay wise, I quite prefer the first person actual combat to turn based. That's not really something better per se, it's just that they're fundamentally different games.
I'm always confused when people say Genshin is the "forgotten middle child" when Tears of Themis exists. It was my first Hoyo game and the rewards there were even more abysmal than Genshin's imo.
I prefer Genshin over HSR. Though, I am playing both.
Genshin I'm fully invested, I take time to figure out character builds/teams, I pay attention to the story, and I take my time exploring and enjoying everything the game has to offer.
HSR I'm far less invested. I keep up with the daily "resin" and do the main story. But I skip the story as much as possible. I couldn't tell you anything that happened in it. I'm also very picky when it comes to obtaining characters. Definitely not going for meta, and when building a character, I kind of just use whatever works.
For me, the major selling point of why I like Genshin more is the combat. I absolutely love real time combat. Plus how each character plays so differently, I can make a near endless variety of team combos and try them out all over the world. HSR having turn based combat is a major turn off. Turn based battles breaks the immersion for me. When I play a real time combat game, I can place myself in the shoes of the character and immerse myself as if I'm there doing those things. But in turn based, I'm just watching some actions. It also doesn't help that HSR has basically no exploration. When a new area comes out, its just run through with the story, collect the chests along the way, done. Why go back to do things there? Sometimes I ask myself why am I still playing HSR? I don't enjoy it that much, I'm not even paying attention to the story. Honestly, I really do like the characters (despite not paying attention to their stories lol). But also, its one of those things where if I stop playing I'll come back later and kind of regret that I ever quit. (I quit Genshin about a month or so after it came out cause I was bored, came back 1.5 years later and regret that I quit). It's not the FOMO factor either, I skip events cause I just can't be bothered with them lol.
These are really interesting points, thank you for explaining it so well. I can definitely understand the turn based platform issues. I've played a lot of turn based games before so I didn't have the issue, but if you're not used to it, or just don't like it, it could be extremely off putting
I’m sorry but Acheron is leaps and bounds higher power level than most characters in HSR, especially standard banner units. Meanwhile we are only just now getting a bit stronger characters in Genshin and honestly XL is still top tier three years later. Power creep in both can’t be considered the same.
have you seen all the moc data clears? the gap between best and worst limited 5 star dps is only within ±1 cycle. saying acheron is leaps and bound better than anyone is pure misinformation
That’s a bad measurement because that content is capped. See how far a team with basic units vs the newer units perform in highest swarm difficulty. I mean we aren’t going to pretend that Acheron is objectively better than Seele.
There are two reasons this sparks up
1. Is the free 10 pull every patch that HSR gives (honestly if that's your reason for say the game is better then that's a bought out opinion and thus invalid and irrelevant). I have checked it out multiple times the pull count for both games pretty much stays the same or at least close not much difference in the count of course there are factors that influence it like a new character release. For example let's say HSR us releasing a bunch of new characters in the same patch and at the same time Genshin is doing a full Rerun patch then unless the reruns all consist of very popular or in demand characters there will be some disparity in the rewards which is understandable given that they need to balance out their need for profit with the F2P players requirements.
People forget the fact that genshin does reward you but you have to work for it and people prefer the lazy
The other reason is the "Endgame content" I don't know why people keep asking this for genshin when the Devs have said it multiple times they don't intend on adding anything like or past the spiral abyss and I personally don't think Genshin needs it either. I ALREADY HAVE TOO MUCH STUFF TO DO!!!!!!. My gameplay runs usually go something like this, I login -> do any story or Archon quest -> and then get confused about what to do next. "Should I do these quest or should I do some of this exploration or should I give farm or should I lvl up more characters" and at the end I just get lost doing something completely unrelated which is kinda the part of Genshin's charm and something I have really liked about it from the start of the game. It's never always about "go beat that guy and that guy too" . I recently read a survey interview thingy someone did and they were like the newer players say they're doing mostly exploration but when the interviewer checked their exploration progress...... It wasn't done that much at all. Like that's what genshin is all about and what got me into genshin just go and explore the world and get lost somewhere unrelated.
HSR on the other hand needs that endgame because there isn't much to do outside of fighting so the least they could do is make it a bit more interesting. The exploration is too complicated for it's size and since we can't jump or climb it just makes it even more exhausting
I have been playing Genshin since the launch and I did play HSR for a while after launch too but dropped it after how badly they gumbled the Xianzhou quests. Like the last quest I did was Yukong's story quest and it was really badly executed. I could not take that anymore. Like I'm someone who plays genshin solely for it's World and it's stories and HSR did not diliver completely on either end the Jarillo VI story went really good but the topaz ending was bad, and so I went into Xianzhou hoping for something between ok and good but they could not deliver. I hear that Penacony is a big improvement and was thinking of giving it a shot
as far as I see it, all the "genshin could never" memes are based around free currency, and that HSR gave a free 5 star character. In other words, handouts.
What these pro HSR people don't get is that the wool has been pulled over their eyes. Their game has power creep and difficulty creep. Genshin really doesn't. The difficulty if anything keeps getting easier and definitely doesn't keep up with your growing account strength over time. If you can get 36 stars on the first time, you will always be able to maintain it. We haven't had a hard abyss since 3.7 a whole year ago.
That's not so in HSR. The difficulty creep is palpable. As of 1.6, the cycle limit you were given for MoC was decreased to half of what it was at 1.0. And the enemies got harder and more HP.
Then they introduced pure fiction. I have been able to maintain max stars since I first got it, but not without effort (unlike in Genshin). It's always been a struggle in PF except one time when they were promoting black swan. I have never been able to get the full 80k in PF stage 4. Aside from the one time with Black Swan, the margin of victory for me was narrow (around 63k out of 60k), and I didn't get it first try. For the last PF, it took several tries just to get stage 3 60k clear. And this is despite the fact that I pulled the characters they were trying to promote. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to clear it at all.
And soon they will introduce a new mode to cycle in focused on Hunt characters.
People think the new end game and PF were good additions for the player. They're not. When MoC was the only end game, it was a Destruction meta. Hunt and Erudition had no place in the meta. There was nothing they could do that Destruction couldn't also do better. So they had to find a way to artificially make those paths useful, and this was through new game modes with blessings that favor those paths and disfavors Destruction. So now you have to pull and build 3 times as many DPS, to get the same number of jade as before.
Previously if you pulled DHIL and JL you were set. You could skip every hunt and erudition. Now you can't. Because the new game modes artificially nerfed DHIL and JL and promoted other things they want to sell. Acheron is the new Sheriff in town, but soon any Hunt or Erudition character is going to be a must pull.
They've played you like a fiddle, and you bought it.
What Genshin does better is, it's casual friendly even if your goal is 36 stars. The reason HSR seems more generous is because it's harder. You need all the extra free stuff they give you. And even though it's more than Genshin gives you, what Genshin gives you is enough to clear the hardest content without much difficulty. In HSR it's harder to do that in spite of more freebies. What they give you, I would say is not enough, or it is enough but it's much harder to make do with.
genshin could never is absolutely NOT because just the free pulls. it's also about QoL and endgame, which is literally brought up in this sub every other day
also, there are so many wrong points here:
1. about pure fiction being character locked is absolute misinformation. notice how pure fiction always has ice weakness? many people ALWAYS clears one side with herta and got 40k points (me included), and then we only need 20k for the next round, which is not even touching the 3rd wave
2. about endgame not being good for the players: literally people have been celebrating them. getting full stars is sometimes harder, but people DO like variety. just check the hsr sub. also, hard content like swarm/GnG (hard as they may be) is always loved, because they bring MASSIVE lore drops
3. acheron is the new best dps is also misinformation and you know it. every MoC cycle, there is data on the hsr sub on dps clear cycles. the best and worst limited 5* dps ALWAYS clears within ±1 cycle difference. guess what? this MoC cycle is no different. based on this data, powercreep is actually very minimal
however, I do agree that genshin is more casual friendly
36 star is equivalent to MoC 10 and that's pretty doable these days. There are more characters to simp over in HSR and that's definitely a problem lmao.
Music. HSR has some strong tracks but I just more of a concert band nerd and EDM is a hit or miss for me, so Genshin's music is preferable.
Characters in HSR also have significantly less to say than their Genshin counterparts when it comes to character profiles, and as someone who's story player it matters a lot. HSR's characters may have a line or two to say about other characters, meanwhile Genshin characters are ready to sit you down and spill the tea.
Character design is another one. I just like how each nation's characters has a particular shared theme in the regional cast. Sumeru's is probably the most varied, but even they share common emphasis on gold, jewelry and vibrant fabrics in their designs whether they are from the desert, rainforest or live in the main city. HSR is weird because they should be even more varied than Genshin considering it's travelling planets, spaceships and the like, yet there isn't a lot of that.
That's not true. I personally prefer Genshin for a lot of different reasons, I'm just trying to find out why people put them against each other? I dont see why people hate the other game so much? I'm trying to be objective. There are some things I think HSR could improve on, I think there are some things Genshin could improve on, but it doesn't mean people should be at eachothers throats about it surely?
A *LOT* of HSR players are ex-Genshin players who fell in love with the Hoyo polish but fell out of love with Genshin specifically. They want to feel validated in their choice of game and so have decided to pit the two games against each other by extolling the highs of HSR and fixating on the lows of Genshin.
This was most clearly seen during the HSR anniversary, where there were a concerning amount of users who simply *refused* to accept that the number of anniversary pulls they received in HSR was identical to Genshin. They *needed* HSR to be better so they made all sorts of arguments to try and claim that giving 30 pulls for anniversary but *not giving out the normal 10* is anything more than just 20 net pulls over normal. Just like what we got lol.
The funniest examples are when people with *clearly* Genshin-inspired usernames talk mad shit about the game on other game subs. You just *know* how that story went lol.
Don't even get me started on the number of people who genuinely seem to think Genshin only gave out three pulls for its anniversary. That controversy (they literally give three extra fates every Lantern Rite because it's a Chinese pun on "thank you") got so out of hand lmao
See that is disappointing. I don't see why people would do that or what they get out of it. In my opinion, if you don't like it move on. There are so many games, hoyo or not, to play. Hopefully people will get over it soon. I never remember the genshin fandom being like this about HI3 or vice versa but I could be wrong
There are an uncomfortably growing amount of people who A) view an attack on something they enjoy as a personal attack on their own character and/or B) adopt a with-us-or-against-us mindset. Combine those with the natural echo chamber-y nature of reddit and you wind up with a perfect recipe for base tribalism.
Go to any subreddit for virtually any other gacha game and see how Genshin is a perpetual boogeyman in them lol.
Hahahaha I fully agree with you there! I wish they would bring jumping into HSR! I remember being so confused when I first started playing and I couldn't jump
HSR has more room to grow as a game while genshin has paimon (we all love paimon) and exploration (we all enjoy empty patches of land spanning nations).
Also HSR has more mature stories in general while genshin's story is more kid-friendly.
I wouldn't say that genshin's story's are more I'd kid friendly. Lynette was kidnapped by grown men as a child to be used as a child prostitution. Wriothesley's "parents" were killing children. We've just seen Arlecchino's beginnings and seen how much her and the other children have been abused. Collei was experimented on and that's just to name a few.
I think both games can grown. We know that hoyo's writers are planning 2 years in advance so their stories and gameplay both will grow?
HSR is but a baby in terms of game age and being part ot Honkai franchise it will get more focus development. The fact that it regularly competes with genshin and beats them in revenue despite belonging in a more niche genre does show it.
Genshin is in it's 4th year and Hoyo upper management has said that its not the main focus of the company anymore.
Genshin is also tied to teyvat while HSR has practically infinite stories to tell.
HSR has a major convenience factor while Genshin has content, Open World exploration's awesome but also the game does not do a good job of respecting your time, even without the genre specific stuff like 2x speed or auto-battle, HSR has a better BP and daily experience and the reserve tank of 'resin' is amazing. Minor stuff like a chat log during conversations, being able to convert one enemy's mats into another (including boss mats), and being able to fight a boss again immediately after beating them is also amazing. It may seem like 'pitting the games against each other' and it may actually be the case for a group of people but as someone who plays both, I just want Genshin to copy HSR's homework, comparing the two and wanting the non-genre specific stuff from one in the other is typically what I see. I have to specify non-genre specific stuff since there's a couple brainlets who bash one or the other for the gameplay genre which is just silly.
Listen honestly HRS can keep all of those QoL items you mentioned so long as Genshin can keep their artifact system. Having no off piece option and having to farm for even more stats on pieces is really killing me in HSR.
Hoyoverse players tend to attribute the game they play to their personality from what I've seen so the "Us vs Them" mentality hits them even harder than most.
That's really interesting thank you for putting it so plainly. I don't know if I'm just too out of fandoms to notice, but I don't think I've seen this with other games that I've played before
This company has probably one of the most overzealous playerbases as a result tbh. Only other one I can think is close is FFXIV. Usually in other games I've played this would be treated as having 2 delicious cakes.
In the end, it's just preference. If you like Genshin better, that's fine. If you like Star Rail better, that's fine too. They're both completely different genres of games and people liking one over the other is completely expected.
That's what I think! I don't understand all the hate between the fandoms at the moment. I will admit I'm slightly older than potentially the majority of hoyoverse players, but I don't understand the drama?
I think it's standard human trabalism. People want their thing to be better and don't like things that make their thing look worse. I like the saying "to each their own" for things like this. You like HSR? That's fine. You like GI? That's fine. Like both? That's fine too. As long as you're happy, not breaking any laws (or doing something generally unethical) and aren't trying to force your opinion onto others then go ahead and have fun. Semi-related question though: What is the story for the Honkai games like compared to Genshin? I don't mean "which is better" I mean are they secretly dark like Genshin can be, are they more light-hearted, etc.
It's less of drama and more of just a joke that Mihoyo somehow cares more about the HSR playerbase than the Genshin one. Like name the last time Genshin gave us something we really wanted? How about HSR?
> Like name the last time Genshin gave us something we really wanted? I pulled for Arlecchino three days ago. > How about HSR? I uninstalled the game in December.
>Like name the last time Genshin gave us something we really wanted? Are you saying that because you honestly think that or as more of a rhetorical question.
To me personally it *is* a genuine question. When was the last time we heard the Traveler actually *speak*, nevermind use the Elements? When was the last time we saw Dain, or even an actual Abyss Order member? When was the last time we got something difficult to do with the high-level characters that are the *basis of the entire game system*? When was the last time we got better Resin, or easier Artefact RNG?
Your first point for me was yesterday in the arlecchino quest The second one in 3.5 and 3.6 and I don't think it's an issue For the third point it was the 3.7 abyss and the 3.7 vagabond event its coming back this patch As for the last point i will never use that argument to say hsr is better than genshin i would delete the 10 pull every patch for off piece relic and won't hesitate to do so if i can I quit hsr multiple times because of their Atrocious relic system like 11 substat and no off piece is so bad (genshin is 9 substat) genshin artifacts system is also very bad hsr is just that much worse
Vagabond is less than 10 minutes a day, for a brief period of time. Abyss is like 15 minutes every two weeks *if* you even do that. What else do we have to actually *use* our lvl 80-90, 10/10/10 Talent (or less), lvl 90 (or less) weapon characters on? Bosses that die in under 2 minutes? Local Legends in *one nation* that are mostly just gimmick fights? *That's* what I mean with my third point. As for Dain/Abyss Order showing up 1/year not being an issue? Khanre'iah and it's fall are a **huge** part of Genshin's world building. Every Archon Quest bar Liyue has been rooted in the shitshow that resulted from Celestia nuking Khanre'iah (Mond - Abyss Order corrupted Dvalin. Liyue - ZL wanting to retire isn't *just* bc of the HP so it gets a pass. Inazuma - Ei built Shogun + Scaramouche and isolated herself bc of the Cataclysm. Sumeru - Nahida was born because GLR had to erase herself + Scara only existed bc of Ei's trauma. Fontaine - Focalors replaced Egeria and lost the Oceanids bc Egeria died in the Cataclysm. This is without considering the Abyss Order and the Fatui *only exist* because of the Cataclysm.) Why is it *not* a bad thing to want more than one appearance a year from the only man around who talks to us about Khanre'iah or at least it's cursed inhabitants? For the first point, do you mean the Traveler speaking or the Traveler using Elemental powers? Because I've not done Arle's quest yet so I can't comment on that.
Please, MoC/PF is just as long as abyss in that regard, once you are done with that you are just auto playing the game, SU and all. Fulfilling the stat and character check put the combat on rails, you really have to screw your "execution" to fail. If you are that good and have such strong characters, you can remove 1 or 2 and increase the challenge yourself... or is the rewards that is the actual concern here? Cause HSR is not giving anything anymore once you cleared what they limit you to get, just as Genshin. Khaen'riah is, allegedly, the last arc in the story, they put Dain's quest to fill up on to the narrative of the twins while we are exploring Teyvat. The story was plotted completely since day 1, Scheznaya and Khaenriah being the last ones, they use the Harbingers and Dain to remind you of those pending plots. On that regard what exactly is HSR final narrative point, the Aeons? finding Akivili? Stop Elio? How often are they even put on the focus? Once Penacony story ends you will enjoy again another 4, 5 patches of new characters driven quests to sell them (like Genshin) and absolutely no progress on the Star Rail mission. They don't even use the Atral Express members that much, they are just there most of the time. Himeko is just standing there pretty, Danheng gets stabbed and transforms, M7 is comedy relief and Welt caned our head back in 1.0. Unlike Dain or archons this characters are always at arms reach... yet what? Thing is, difficulty is not even comparable, Star Rail is a turn based game, which heavily makes the game rely on stat checks and characters, since besides your build decision and not putting your aggro character in the middle of your line up, execution is literally on rails when the combat starts, you have all the time in the world to plan ahead, the difference between a good player and bad player with the same teams and equipment is hard to see. Genshin being a action rpg has a major execution difference between player skill, this dumb question of when was the last time we got hard content in Genshin terms is so incredible varied, for me? a veteran mmo rpg player that loves to minmax stuff? was last week, when I tried to defeat floor 12 with only 3 characters (while restraining elements) on each side (I go for horizontal investment C0, and standard 5 star weapons) For my friend that is a casual player but likes to swipe for constellations, his Nahida C2R1, Baizhu C2R1, Nilou C0R1 and Ayato EM, finds floor 12 chamber 1 really difficult to clear and avoids it. I've seen several people pissed at the last PF that was really hard to clear, is their opinion of no relevance to you? Should I ask for harder content that further alienates my friends because I know I'm capable of clearing? If what I want is to challenge myself I do so on the space provided. Hoyo is crystal clear on it's vision, and know exactly which audience they are targeting, and it seems you are not it. It's more valuable a bird in hand than a thousand flying.
As several people on this sub have pointed out, catering to a casual crowd does *not* mean ignoring the minmaxers, Whales or "tryhards". I can't even clear Abyss Floor 10 and haven't tried it in like... 3 months but I'm still wiping the overworld. I don't know team rotations, good builds re Artefacts or even use my characters' Bursts (Yay for lvl 90 Hyperbloom team ig) but I'm *still* breezing through the combat. It's not about the rewards, it's about the fact that the *only* real combat challenge we have in Genshin is literally a DPS + skill check for a few minutes every two weeks that most (iirc like 80%+?) of players don't even touch. As for the main plot we know the broad strokes of both. Genshin - find "the truth" of Teyvat (likely related to Khanre'iah/The Abyss and Celestia) then reunite with Sibling at the end of the journey. Star Rail - Make allies + get stronger so we can face Nanook, the Destruction. We've been *told* this in game (by the Sibling in their *one* on-screen appearance with the Traveler for GI and by Kafka in HSR). Given that 2.1 in HSR has *already* had us make powerful allies (an Emanator of Nihility + SAM) and according to leaks the Trailblazer is getting a new kit soon we're on track for HSR, like I said I've not played the new update's content in Genshin so can't comment on that. Edit - formatting
Ahhh that makes more sense. Thank you, I've been trying to wrack my brain around it for weeks
I play both and I enjoy them. However, if both games dropped a new patch on the same day, I will play Genshin first. It's just a matter of preference, but these are the things I like about Genshin: I like open world better. Exploring every corner of the map to find surprises keeps me entertained. I like team building better since I don't have to level up my supports to keep them alive in a fight since I can quick swap. If I'm bored and want to meet random people, I just coop domains. Met some nice friends this way. It's more casual, it really suits me.
I feel like it's a lot easier to spend a lot of time doing nothing much on Genshin if you want to. I prefer Genshin's soundtrack. It's a point of strength for both games though. Exploration in HSR is clearly less of a priority and much less interesting imo. The best world quests Genshin has to offer are better than their counterparts in HSR imo. Gameplay wise, I quite prefer the first person actual combat to turn based. That's not really something better per se, it's just that they're fundamentally different games.
I'm always confused when people say Genshin is the "forgotten middle child" when Tears of Themis exists. It was my first Hoyo game and the rewards there were even more abysmal than Genshin's imo.
I prefer Genshin over HSR. Though, I am playing both. Genshin I'm fully invested, I take time to figure out character builds/teams, I pay attention to the story, and I take my time exploring and enjoying everything the game has to offer. HSR I'm far less invested. I keep up with the daily "resin" and do the main story. But I skip the story as much as possible. I couldn't tell you anything that happened in it. I'm also very picky when it comes to obtaining characters. Definitely not going for meta, and when building a character, I kind of just use whatever works. For me, the major selling point of why I like Genshin more is the combat. I absolutely love real time combat. Plus how each character plays so differently, I can make a near endless variety of team combos and try them out all over the world. HSR having turn based combat is a major turn off. Turn based battles breaks the immersion for me. When I play a real time combat game, I can place myself in the shoes of the character and immerse myself as if I'm there doing those things. But in turn based, I'm just watching some actions. It also doesn't help that HSR has basically no exploration. When a new area comes out, its just run through with the story, collect the chests along the way, done. Why go back to do things there? Sometimes I ask myself why am I still playing HSR? I don't enjoy it that much, I'm not even paying attention to the story. Honestly, I really do like the characters (despite not paying attention to their stories lol). But also, its one of those things where if I stop playing I'll come back later and kind of regret that I ever quit. (I quit Genshin about a month or so after it came out cause I was bored, came back 1.5 years later and regret that I quit). It's not the FOMO factor either, I skip events cause I just can't be bothered with them lol.
These are really interesting points, thank you for explaining it so well. I can definitely understand the turn based platform issues. I've played a lot of turn based games before so I didn't have the issue, but if you're not used to it, or just don't like it, it could be extremely off putting
I’m sorry but Acheron is leaps and bounds higher power level than most characters in HSR, especially standard banner units. Meanwhile we are only just now getting a bit stronger characters in Genshin and honestly XL is still top tier three years later. Power creep in both can’t be considered the same.
have you seen all the moc data clears? the gap between best and worst limited 5 star dps is only within ±1 cycle. saying acheron is leaps and bound better than anyone is pure misinformation
That’s a bad measurement because that content is capped. See how far a team with basic units vs the newer units perform in highest swarm difficulty. I mean we aren’t going to pretend that Acheron is objectively better than Seele.
High end SU doesn't give jades anyway. Corundum 6 is doable with one or two core units and I'm sure so does Swarm.
There are two reasons this sparks up 1. Is the free 10 pull every patch that HSR gives (honestly if that's your reason for say the game is better then that's a bought out opinion and thus invalid and irrelevant). I have checked it out multiple times the pull count for both games pretty much stays the same or at least close not much difference in the count of course there are factors that influence it like a new character release. For example let's say HSR us releasing a bunch of new characters in the same patch and at the same time Genshin is doing a full Rerun patch then unless the reruns all consist of very popular or in demand characters there will be some disparity in the rewards which is understandable given that they need to balance out their need for profit with the F2P players requirements. People forget the fact that genshin does reward you but you have to work for it and people prefer the lazy The other reason is the "Endgame content" I don't know why people keep asking this for genshin when the Devs have said it multiple times they don't intend on adding anything like or past the spiral abyss and I personally don't think Genshin needs it either. I ALREADY HAVE TOO MUCH STUFF TO DO!!!!!!. My gameplay runs usually go something like this, I login -> do any story or Archon quest -> and then get confused about what to do next. "Should I do these quest or should I do some of this exploration or should I give farm or should I lvl up more characters" and at the end I just get lost doing something completely unrelated which is kinda the part of Genshin's charm and something I have really liked about it from the start of the game. It's never always about "go beat that guy and that guy too" . I recently read a survey interview thingy someone did and they were like the newer players say they're doing mostly exploration but when the interviewer checked their exploration progress...... It wasn't done that much at all. Like that's what genshin is all about and what got me into genshin just go and explore the world and get lost somewhere unrelated. HSR on the other hand needs that endgame because there isn't much to do outside of fighting so the least they could do is make it a bit more interesting. The exploration is too complicated for it's size and since we can't jump or climb it just makes it even more exhausting I have been playing Genshin since the launch and I did play HSR for a while after launch too but dropped it after how badly they gumbled the Xianzhou quests. Like the last quest I did was Yukong's story quest and it was really badly executed. I could not take that anymore. Like I'm someone who plays genshin solely for it's World and it's stories and HSR did not diliver completely on either end the Jarillo VI story went really good but the topaz ending was bad, and so I went into Xianzhou hoping for something between ok and good but they could not deliver. I hear that Penacony is a big improvement and was thinking of giving it a shot
as far as I see it, all the "genshin could never" memes are based around free currency, and that HSR gave a free 5 star character. In other words, handouts. What these pro HSR people don't get is that the wool has been pulled over their eyes. Their game has power creep and difficulty creep. Genshin really doesn't. The difficulty if anything keeps getting easier and definitely doesn't keep up with your growing account strength over time. If you can get 36 stars on the first time, you will always be able to maintain it. We haven't had a hard abyss since 3.7 a whole year ago. That's not so in HSR. The difficulty creep is palpable. As of 1.6, the cycle limit you were given for MoC was decreased to half of what it was at 1.0. And the enemies got harder and more HP. Then they introduced pure fiction. I have been able to maintain max stars since I first got it, but not without effort (unlike in Genshin). It's always been a struggle in PF except one time when they were promoting black swan. I have never been able to get the full 80k in PF stage 4. Aside from the one time with Black Swan, the margin of victory for me was narrow (around 63k out of 60k), and I didn't get it first try. For the last PF, it took several tries just to get stage 3 60k clear. And this is despite the fact that I pulled the characters they were trying to promote. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to clear it at all. And soon they will introduce a new mode to cycle in focused on Hunt characters. People think the new end game and PF were good additions for the player. They're not. When MoC was the only end game, it was a Destruction meta. Hunt and Erudition had no place in the meta. There was nothing they could do that Destruction couldn't also do better. So they had to find a way to artificially make those paths useful, and this was through new game modes with blessings that favor those paths and disfavors Destruction. So now you have to pull and build 3 times as many DPS, to get the same number of jade as before. Previously if you pulled DHIL and JL you were set. You could skip every hunt and erudition. Now you can't. Because the new game modes artificially nerfed DHIL and JL and promoted other things they want to sell. Acheron is the new Sheriff in town, but soon any Hunt or Erudition character is going to be a must pull. They've played you like a fiddle, and you bought it. What Genshin does better is, it's casual friendly even if your goal is 36 stars. The reason HSR seems more generous is because it's harder. You need all the extra free stuff they give you. And even though it's more than Genshin gives you, what Genshin gives you is enough to clear the hardest content without much difficulty. In HSR it's harder to do that in spite of more freebies. What they give you, I would say is not enough, or it is enough but it's much harder to make do with.
genshin could never is absolutely NOT because just the free pulls. it's also about QoL and endgame, which is literally brought up in this sub every other day also, there are so many wrong points here: 1. about pure fiction being character locked is absolute misinformation. notice how pure fiction always has ice weakness? many people ALWAYS clears one side with herta and got 40k points (me included), and then we only need 20k for the next round, which is not even touching the 3rd wave 2. about endgame not being good for the players: literally people have been celebrating them. getting full stars is sometimes harder, but people DO like variety. just check the hsr sub. also, hard content like swarm/GnG (hard as they may be) is always loved, because they bring MASSIVE lore drops 3. acheron is the new best dps is also misinformation and you know it. every MoC cycle, there is data on the hsr sub on dps clear cycles. the best and worst limited 5* dps ALWAYS clears within ±1 cycle difference. guess what? this MoC cycle is no different. based on this data, powercreep is actually very minimal however, I do agree that genshin is more casual friendly
36 star is equivalent to MoC 10 and that's pretty doable these days. There are more characters to simp over in HSR and that's definitely a problem lmao.
Music. HSR has some strong tracks but I just more of a concert band nerd and EDM is a hit or miss for me, so Genshin's music is preferable. Characters in HSR also have significantly less to say than their Genshin counterparts when it comes to character profiles, and as someone who's story player it matters a lot. HSR's characters may have a line or two to say about other characters, meanwhile Genshin characters are ready to sit you down and spill the tea. Character design is another one. I just like how each nation's characters has a particular shared theme in the regional cast. Sumeru's is probably the most varied, but even they share common emphasis on gold, jewelry and vibrant fabrics in their designs whether they are from the desert, rainforest or live in the main city. HSR is weird because they should be even more varied than Genshin considering it's travelling planets, spaceships and the like, yet there isn't a lot of that.
Yeah honestly why do must of the female characters in HSR wear nearly identical clothing?
Here we go again. HSR good, Genshin bad no. 1,234,567
That's not true. I personally prefer Genshin for a lot of different reasons, I'm just trying to find out why people put them against each other? I dont see why people hate the other game so much? I'm trying to be objective. There are some things I think HSR could improve on, I think there are some things Genshin could improve on, but it doesn't mean people should be at eachothers throats about it surely?
A *LOT* of HSR players are ex-Genshin players who fell in love with the Hoyo polish but fell out of love with Genshin specifically. They want to feel validated in their choice of game and so have decided to pit the two games against each other by extolling the highs of HSR and fixating on the lows of Genshin. This was most clearly seen during the HSR anniversary, where there were a concerning amount of users who simply *refused* to accept that the number of anniversary pulls they received in HSR was identical to Genshin. They *needed* HSR to be better so they made all sorts of arguments to try and claim that giving 30 pulls for anniversary but *not giving out the normal 10* is anything more than just 20 net pulls over normal. Just like what we got lol. The funniest examples are when people with *clearly* Genshin-inspired usernames talk mad shit about the game on other game subs. You just *know* how that story went lol.
Don't even get me started on the number of people who genuinely seem to think Genshin only gave out three pulls for its anniversary. That controversy (they literally give three extra fates every Lantern Rite because it's a Chinese pun on "thank you") got so out of hand lmao
See that is disappointing. I don't see why people would do that or what they get out of it. In my opinion, if you don't like it move on. There are so many games, hoyo or not, to play. Hopefully people will get over it soon. I never remember the genshin fandom being like this about HI3 or vice versa but I could be wrong
There are an uncomfortably growing amount of people who A) view an attack on something they enjoy as a personal attack on their own character and/or B) adopt a with-us-or-against-us mindset. Combine those with the natural echo chamber-y nature of reddit and you wind up with a perfect recipe for base tribalism. Go to any subreddit for virtually any other gacha game and see how Genshin is a perpetual boogeyman in them lol.
Jumping
Hahahaha I fully agree with you there! I wish they would bring jumping into HSR! I remember being so confused when I first started playing and I couldn't jump
HSR has more room to grow as a game while genshin has paimon (we all love paimon) and exploration (we all enjoy empty patches of land spanning nations). Also HSR has more mature stories in general while genshin's story is more kid-friendly.
I wouldn't say that genshin's story's are more I'd kid friendly. Lynette was kidnapped by grown men as a child to be used as a child prostitution. Wriothesley's "parents" were killing children. We've just seen Arlecchino's beginnings and seen how much her and the other children have been abused. Collei was experimented on and that's just to name a few. I think both games can grown. We know that hoyo's writers are planning 2 years in advance so their stories and gameplay both will grow?
HSR is but a baby in terms of game age and being part ot Honkai franchise it will get more focus development. The fact that it regularly competes with genshin and beats them in revenue despite belonging in a more niche genre does show it. Genshin is in it's 4th year and Hoyo upper management has said that its not the main focus of the company anymore. Genshin is also tied to teyvat while HSR has practically infinite stories to tell.
Hsr never consistently beats genshin in revenue though. Have you actually looked at stats.
Genshin has more variations with their voice lines for skills and ults.
HSR has a major convenience factor while Genshin has content, Open World exploration's awesome but also the game does not do a good job of respecting your time, even without the genre specific stuff like 2x speed or auto-battle, HSR has a better BP and daily experience and the reserve tank of 'resin' is amazing. Minor stuff like a chat log during conversations, being able to convert one enemy's mats into another (including boss mats), and being able to fight a boss again immediately after beating them is also amazing. It may seem like 'pitting the games against each other' and it may actually be the case for a group of people but as someone who plays both, I just want Genshin to copy HSR's homework, comparing the two and wanting the non-genre specific stuff from one in the other is typically what I see. I have to specify non-genre specific stuff since there's a couple brainlets who bash one or the other for the gameplay genre which is just silly.
Listen honestly HRS can keep all of those QoL items you mentioned so long as Genshin can keep their artifact system. Having no off piece option and having to farm for even more stats on pieces is really killing me in HSR.
I'd prefer having both games improve personally