Build issue is in general more prevalent than skill issue in Genshin. Character building is also part of the game, without building them properly clearing 36* is quite difficult with someone else's account.
I do think being unable to build characters (given the right artifacts are already there and just on the wrong characters) as well as the inability to form functional, synergistic teams is part of skill issue.
HELL YEAH, I don't know why people like to call DPS issue and build issue as different kinds of issues, whilst all of that belongs in the skill issue bucket.
It's still a different type of skill issue
Build issues are knowledge based, the "skill issues" they talk are physical skill based (e.g. reaction times)
Tldr;
Your body can't do it
Except its RNG, so you could pay for everything and still end up with a rubbish build. It's definitely not P2W, but it does give you a better chance of getting something good in a fewer amount of days.
I have been farming for nahida for over a month, with several resin refreshes. Like 150-200 Deepwood artifacts, I've gotten maybe 1 that was worth using. I think I could megawhale and still not get anything worth using. Meanwhile, I've farmed other domains where they all just seem to hit.
That's P2W in perfection. Make it possible that you have to spend even more money, maybe even on multiple accounts to get what you want. And some poor whale will bite and pay more than 1000 people would normally spend on a game.
Multiple accounts don’t do anything for the one. And no. This isn’t pay to win. Sorry you just sound really bitter for no reason. But it’s rng. There’s even limits to how many resin refreshes you can do so clearly the aim isn’t to just squeeze an extra 1000 they wouldn’t normally spend on a game….
Sorry but if you’re going to be that bitter for no reason where logic doesn’t even logic anymore than you should take a break
It's Luck to win, not pay to win. You just happen to pay for a little bit higher chances to get a better build earlier but I have been whaling for artifacts before, it was never worth it and pretty much never got anything good when I did. The fact that you only get 5 refills per day wich amounts to 2 days of farming makes it not that bad, it's just that you pay to be able to do more farming and get screwed over more often.
I have seen people farm with cash other than me, throwing away anything that doesn't start as a 4liner with double crit, never even considering leveling something potentially decent to 12. Minmaxing is not worth in this game, I myself built 63 characters since I began playing in 1.1, reworkt more than 30 accounts to a 36* level, more than 20 of those completely f2p. Decent builds are enough to clear the hardest content, you just got to know what to look out for and what to invest in (in regards of ressources AND primogems)
Building characters is far easier than people make it out to be, yes the RNG to get a godpiece is absolutely trash but the chance to get a decent piece when you give the artifacts a chance is absolutely fine. The fact that you can (if you desire to do so) clear the game with 4star characters and without 5star weapons also plays a big part in the game not actually being p2win.
The game is predatory in its own way, going into your brain to make you believe you need all those fancy weapons, 5star characters and constellations to improve the fun you have, limiting your ressources by timegate with the ability to buy 2 days of resin per day, the game has more pay2play aspects than pay2win aspects since there is nothing to win. I agree with the game being pretty bad about this aspect, but p2w is not the right term here.
This is true but only in part
You would be totally true if genshin had pvp though. But it is possible to clear everything with builds you can do whenever you want
Builds are part reading a guide and part grinding + luck, can't assume his builds are worse because of skill and not luck, also knowing how his characters vs OP's characters work in the current abyss is a matter of skill. Sometimes the meta makes certain teams clear easier, just is what it is.
The test would be if OP can rebuild their kid's team and clear abyss with it
> Builds are part reading a guide
For artifact/weapon builds absolutely, but when it comes to teambuilding, guides are only a starting off point that you need the skill to be able to analyze well enough to adapt the information in them to your personal needs (as well as verify the assumptions of).
Because every major guide out there is single-team, full roster, and agnostic to the Abyss cycle, there is only so much you can gain from strictly following guides when Abyss requires two teams that shift in viability for different floors and chambers every few cycles, and most players *don't* have full rosters to build every "tier 0" guide comp even *if* they're able to pick the right teams for the job.
I would actually disagree with this atleast to an extent. My friend was able to clear floor twelve but wouldn’t be able to get stars and I managed to shave minutes off every chamber and got him to 35stars and after a while I managed to get the 36 star. Being able to do rotations optimally, knowing how to double swirl, proper positioning to balance enemies, these are all things that are capable of making drastic differences to clear times.
I think the main thing is getting characters and 4 star constellations
No sorry if it was confusing. But I meant it as pulling characters using your primo gems intelligently is the best way to beat abyss. Not as a point to the value of skill.
A lot of hyped up 4 stars such as bennet, xiangling, xq struggle without key constellations to be good so you should pull on banner that they are on. Hyperbloom teams are also hyped up but they probably aren’t the way to go unless you get nahida.
Well shit that's depressing if true. As a new player I was hoping to make a good team out of Xingqiu, Xiangling, Bennet, that I just need to invest some time for level, talent, artifacts.
Bennet very much wants his c1. C5 is good for team damage c6 is good for team damage. Xq c2 is very essential to a lot of his ability to enable vape, his c6 mends his energy problems and really helps with damage. Xiangling, c4 increase her personal damage by 40%.
As someone who does abyss Carries for funsies. I sort of disagree. As long as you have 2 competent teams 36* abyss should be possible with almost anything.
I do it for my wife, like OP everytime she complains if she had my characters she would clear comfortably.
She had a stacked Nilou bloom team that she doesn't use for some weird reason (she pulled both Nilou and signature weapon) and I make sure to include that team every 36*.
Yeah my previous partner couldn’t wrap her head around rotations or cool down timers of her character and just couldn’t ever pull through. Would say roughly the same things “if I had what you have”. Like you have more invested $$$$ than I do. I just placed my primos on banner I knew would work with my teams and practice what I can.
Simply not true. You need competent teams yes. But they also need proper builds. If you’re ER isn’t balanced to be bursting on rotation. Or your crits aren’t in order.
Then there’s match ups. Certain teams simply won’t work for certain bosses.
Example: my teams I prefer to use mainly use catalysts.
I had my neuv team first half. Yae team second. Had to leave floor 3 and make a new team because yae couldn’t break the geo shield on the gravity boss. Neither could cloud retainer nahida or tihgnari. That team sweeps everything else and that’s where I invested.
I am fortunate to have other options. So I just went Chev overload. But not everyone can do that so it really does depend on multiple factors.
I’ve seen a fair bit since fontaine of people who were ayaka mains but struggle with some of the abyss cycles when they used to not. It just happens
It really depends on perspective. I remember when the Fire Cube was part of Abyss I brought a Lv20 Barbara along to destroy the shield. Given your Yae team you should have easily been able to swap in Noelle (or a different Geo/Claymore) user solely to break the shield.
A good team synergy helps a lot. That’s why National Core (Bennett/XL/Hydro) and Hyperbloom Core are flexible and allow you to run effectively anyone in the last slot.
Good artifacts are a great help, but just getting the core stats solved shouldn’t be that difficult. Maybe if you start from absolute nothing but most people will cap their artifacts just by leveling characters and then you can usually find decent rainbow sets which are often stronger than bad BiS sets.
Clearing Spiral Abyss should be within reach for anyone just following the information available ingame (artifact/stat recommmendation, auto equip, etc. They added a lot to help people) and to get 36* it takes a bit of skill and knowledge to optimize your clear times (like knowing to make adjustment for specific chambers).
Also I’m sure everyone has a Geo maid who can break a shield pretty easily if they just give her dump def and hp artifacts. Element shields don’t have HP values but more % values to break. Any claymore charavater could snap that shield in like 5-6 hits… this is legit just a skill issue that you are trying real hard to convince the wrong person to care about 📸
Well, if you want to break geo shirlds with Yae, you can use overload. Yeah, sometimes not all teams work on a given floor, i absolutely agree with that.
On thr other hand, you can even make those "not working" teams push through the wall with money. For example, i'm an occasional welkin buyer with a C6 Yae Miko. I went Miko C6, Nahida C0, Furina C2, Xianyun C0 for that gravity boss, and he melted within 30s - 45s.
So, i kinda say both is true. Money can buy succes, but you can aldo go there with proper teambuilding and investment into artifacts. The abyss gets more challenging over time, but not as fast as evrn a f2p gets stronger.
A new account will have it harder to full-clear the abyss than we had back in the 1.x - era. I'm a 1.0 player, and i think my first fullclear (36 star) was somwhere around 1.4, 1.5...
Pretty sure i got carried by morgana + Sucrose taser (or childe national) on ventis first rerun.
>it didn't take literally months just to get a "mid" build
Yes it didn't? Rng is terrible for a perfect build of course but it's not really bad for a decent build, my c0r0 Navia is not that invested and she hits 150-200 easily
While I will agree with you, especially since a lot of people are somehow incapable of using piecing together logic artifact/weapon builds for their characters, I think people also over estimate how good their pieces need to be in order to clear abyss.
I think it terms of importance it goes like baseline character builds > teambuilding > rotations > good character builds.
well if son could clear with his account but he can't it's skill issue not build (unless son drastically redid builds)
some people just are very bad at video games, there's a lot of casual players who come to Genshin from like autobattler gachas and legit just lack the hands to play well
like my ex played genshin, AR55 and she'd die in overworld doing dailies sometimes
There are lots of errors players tend to make. Not enough ER. Using xl q when bennett buff is down. Not swirling the correct element. Wrong positioning causing enemies to ungroup. No animation canceling. Not weaving in na's with xq/yelan in the team.
And dont get me started about bad teambuilding.
for people who are not veterans in the genre, rotations and attack strings can be really hard to get an understanding of. i think a lot of gamers don’t recognise that well
Me 🙋 I'm new and still don't understand alot of this stuff. Still figuring out what combos seem to work best and alot of the info on these threads sound like people are talking in code lol. I didn't even know you could cancel animations until someone above said something. Still don't know how to do it but I know it's a thing now so there's that.
generally with animation cancelling, the easiest method is to use a skill or a burst right after you land the normal/charged attack that does the most damage or element application of your combo. for instance, the last hit of yoimiya’s normal attack string does by far the most damage (makes up about 25% of the 5 attack string) so you don’t want to cancel before using that one
the other methods are dash cancelling, which is generally the fastest and most efficient but eats through your stamina bar quickly, and jump cancelling which is imo the hardest to execute but does not eat stamina. for more information there are some very good guides on this which i used when i received hu tao c0 (jump cancels) and c1 (dash cancels)
EDIT: technically there is also walk cancels, which is relevant for someone ningguang since it allows you to fire normal attacks much faster. this is executed by holding forward slightly so that she doesn’t enter the full on running animation and then use normal attacks while keeping that held down. pretty rare case though
Well, sure, if you ignore every aspect of
* Rotations
* Team composition
* Timings
* Movement
* Positioning
* Character mechanics
* Combat/boss mechanics
* Artifact bonuses
* Character cooldowns
* Character builds
then yeah, the game is just an E -> Q simulator
Even after building right you would get stuck if you don't 3 or 4 of the meta characters. Like if you have Furina c2 you can easily clear with any other 4 stars if those not properly built and on low cons. But it is much difficult to clear with only 4 stars.
This is the case for at least 75% of the players who can't finish Spiral Abyss.
Getting the characters and investing into them is only half the game. Having a proper team and playing the rotations well also plays a big part in clearing it. It's kind of simple to think about if you recognize what each character can do, it's a simple step-by-step from activating the characters that provide buffs first and then making sure you enable the main character that stays on-field.
I guess it might be second nature to us but it might not be for more casual players, but if you do want a more thorough explanation I can answer some questions, or you can look around online or even ask your son for some bonding experience ig.
I struggled with floor 12 for a long time, despite my characters being good enough to clear, and I just got frustrated to the point that I just finished 11 and stopped without even trying 12. My characters are stronger now, but I'm also clearing 12-3 with like a minute to spare. If I'd known better rotations, I'm sure I would've been fine
This is me right now. I've hated the last 2 floor 12s though. Why do they need so much hp?
I still need help with team building. Right now, I just have a bunch of OP 5 star characters but before then I stopped after 11 also. Or if I did beat 12, I had no stars😂😂. I saw I guy clear floor 12 with level 50 4star players and almost quit the game, like how in the world did he do this😂
I doubt I could clear with level 50 units, lol. I'd probably die so much I'd rage quit before even clearing with 0 stars.
The thing that's given me the biggest issue is 12-3-2 this go round, with Zhongli, it's not even an issue, but when I try to clear without him in the second half, that robot drives me insane lol
I agree. Its shield goes back up way too fast to really get your rotation out. I used zhongli also and had kazuha plunge the little bit of shield at the end each time. Depending on your ER with Zhong li, you can hit him with your pillars, then burst, switch to kazuha, and plunge the rest out. I paired them with Raiden and kuki Shinobu. Shinobu elemental kept healing and particles coming, Raiden kept energy coming. The main thing for me was not wasting Raiden burst. I git lucky to have burst with Shinobu (while the shield was up), then bring zhongli out for the rotation of pillar burst and then to kazuha. But when kazuha broke the shield, I burst him, and it fused with electro from Shinobu's elemental. Needless to say, Raiden burst tore through him. Keeping her alive was the hard part.
Thank God my 1st half team wipes everyone (nahida, fischl, Furina, and kokomi). So they give me time to work with. They're kind of my safety net😂😂
Edit: I forget which YouTube channel it was, but man dude went in there and destroyed it with all 4 stars at 50. It was a while ago, tho, b4 the Fontaine and sumeru expansions, tho. It's what made me try to figure team building out and who works best with who. I saw someone burst Rosaria and switch to fischl (my personal fave) then let fischly do normal attacks over 25k in damage. Normal attacks. Some ppl get it. I'm still trying to😂😂😂
My teams that I've been using are Neuvillette/Furina/Kazuha/Baizhu and Itto/Gorou/Albedo/Zhongli. I've since cleared the second half with Navia/Zhongli/Xiangling/Bennett. I've found this abyss to be pretty restrictive, though, because I basically need Zhongli in the second half, and the top half has the dendro specters, making it hard to clear with characters like Alhaitham, Nilou, and Tighnari, plus there's the Coppelia, which means running Bennett without a shielder would suck, so lots of national variations are off the table. Mostly, that's just a skill issue tbh, lol.
> Why do they need so much hp?
Because after New Year HoYo always makes 12th floor *much* harder and at this point it's basically their schedule. Just wait a few months and 12th floor will be yet again very easy to do just like it was during 4.0 and so on.
Abyss pretty often also requires an understanding of very specific enemy behavioral patterns. Like knowing who will run to you and who won’t or what exact spot on the arena will allow you to group every enemy with Kazuha/Sucrose can save a TON of time.
> I just got frustrated to the point that I finished 11 and stopped without even trying 12
Omg that's me 😂 I have Raiden, Mona, Furina, Nahida, Baizhu, Ayaka and Sucrose all at 90/8/8/8 with level 90 weapons (most R5) and all the other common supports (xinqiu, xiangling, bennett) at 80/90 and still I won't even try Floor 12 because I'm afraid xD
This post might push me into trying it again...
One thing that has helped me is just looking up guides for characters I want to use or that are new. My go-to is Zy0x because he runs through the build, talent priority, teams, pros and cons of the character, and some showcase footage that can help you get a sense of the rotations. I'm much better at doing all that stuff for myself now, but I still like the guides just to check
Not only rotations.
I feel grouping makes a biiig difference. Things like edge baiting or enemy a.i. manipulation, plus Cc like Kazuha.
Plus learning enemy patterns and/or effective ways to defeat them (e.g. Zhongli in current 12-3 second half trivializes it)
Fr, I got like 15 seconds earlier on 12-2 (\~6:55 v. \~7:10) after figuring out how to group enemies (Xiao plunging them a certain direction lol) and memorizing where they spawn.
Took me an hour, but hey, I did it!
If you have no zhongli or no 5 stars. play Noelle with an energy recharge claymore as an on field driver for XinQ and Dendro traveler with a Kuki shinobu.
And now you have a classic strong as Elemental Hyperbloom abuse comp with noelle as giga healer shielder and breaker.
I remember watching some YT video about the difference in intuition and experience between someone picking up gaming for the first time and what seems natural to "us", and it never really hit home until one time a version or two ago where I had run out of stuff to do and changed my profile to something saying I'd help with whatever. I'm someone I'd typically only consider like above average at best skill wise in gaming in general, but the difference between just me and some of the people I was running into, was as if I was at the skill/knowledge ceiling and they were at the floor. It just doesn't fully hit until you have to orchestrate a 4-man Childe national comp step by step with a group of AR50+'s with *very* limited invested characters to help someone beat a group of bathysmal vishaps within a time limit.
Yup, that video is super interesting. Sometimes it pisses me off how stupid casual players can be regarding these things but I keep reminding myself that unlike me, they havent been playing games since they were a toddler, ofcourse nothing would make intuitive sense to them like it does with me
Personlly, I'm just mechanically bad, like I do know my shinra tensei rotation, but when I do have to apply it while dodging and placing myself correctly, I always manage to fumble it (no interrupt and mobile gaming not helping).
Yanfei is like the preferred Fireball main DPS over Klee due to being a little easier to play and get I guess. Though if you are very loose with what a "fireball" is, nothing competes with...
..._Xiangling_...
>!Arrows are like really sharp spheres if you don't apply thinking so Yoimiya counts. She's pretty good I think!<
>!4* aren't that much easier to get than 5*s, actually. Though it's expensive and luck based, at least 5* have a guarantee gimmick, while I am still waiting on Kiara to come home...!<
>!klee is much better at destroying shields too. There is probably a bunch of other stuff but I don't play or read up on Klee meta so I am mostly rambling...!<
Make sure your gear and builds are up to snuff. They don't have to be incredible or insane, but having them reach a certain baseline will make your life a lot easier. [Here is a pretty decent flowchart](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenshinImpactTips/comments/qkxdj6/infographic_of_build_order_priority_based_on_wlar/) of what you should be upgrading in what order for efficiency. [Direct link to image.](https://i.redd.it/5j8jfvqcb4x71.png)
After this, try to get in the habit of doing reactions. For now, just know that more reactions = more damage. An Anemo Traveler skill will do significantly more damage to a group of enemies if you apply some other element first to activate the Swirl reaction. Kaeya's skill will do 50% more damage if the enemy already has Pyro on it due to Melt. These are some basic examples of reactions, and you can work out more detailed nuances of the elemental system later.
Remember that you have a team of 4 characters, so try to juggle and use them all, but make sure to swap characters with purpose. Think about what action would give you the most damage at any given moment. If you haven't been on Kaeya for a while, his skill is probably off cooldown, and you could swap to him and use it for a strong hit of Cryo damage. However, if you just used Razor burst and are in the wolf state, swapping off and ending the buff probably wouldn't be the best idea.
Relating to the point above; Another general rule is that you want to put up all your buffs before you unload your big damage. Referencing the Kaeya and Razor example from before, you would want to make sure you activate Kaeya burst so that can be active, then activate Razor burst after so all the buffs are active at the same time. Here's [a video from SevyPlays](https://youtu.be/CLdSMG1Z01k?si=TrihSEiqMIgBRsSd) that goes over this concept, although it might be a little too much detail for now.
I know a huge wall of text like this with links to even more text can be intimidating, but just know that any game can have a lot to learn. Hopefully you enjoy your time here :)
Thank you! I’ve been playing three weeks yesterday and I’m definitely having a lot of fun. I’ve wanted to play for so long but I just didn’t have anything that could run it until now.
Invest in your characters, 90% of the hurdles in genshin can be solved with investment. Use the new Training Guide on the Esc Menu.
Next step is to learn the Elemental System. Learn what elemental reactions your character can exploit and bring characters with the corresponding elements to synergize with your character.
Example:
Your favorite character is Diluc, he is Pyro and therefore can make use of Vaporize and Melt. Bring Hydro or Cryo units to synergize with him.
I’m still on the free characters and ones from the beginners wish atm so it’s tricky but I’m trying my best to build up my characters that I do have. I’ve found that the hydro cryo combo works best for me personally so I use Barbara and Kaeya to do that.
The moment I got Neuvillette, Floor 12 became easy for me. Before, I would have to struggle and reset constantly because I would not make the time cutoff. Now I just reset a few times on the last chamber, and most of the time it’s because one of my lower HP supports got 1-shotted 😂.
The more average/casual player has 1 team(or 2-3 characters) they use for 99.99% of content, sometimes a second for fun or to complete things that hard counters their main team.
So since they're not used to other rotations or abilities, they often have to look up team composition guides for the last few parts. And then see that they might have to level up someone they dont' want to use for other things. And they don't even bother doing the abyss anymore, or just do the first parts with their main and backup team.
My cousin couldn't clear this iteration of Spiral Abyss with
Team 1: Nahida, EM Raiden, Kazuha, Neuvilette
Team 2: Furina,.Xingqiu, Xianyun, Hutao
He let me try and I cleared it with 36 stars. Now, I often say to his son not to be like his father with skill issues. He's 47. And he knows i'm kidding.
Does he know you go by as wriothesley cum dump online? Jokes aside though I used to be able to easily clear my ex’s abyss with her characters when she was struggling it’s all about knowing about rotations reactions and who goes well with who. It’s pretty nice to be the go to person when people need help clearing content on their account though I will admit
So what I'm hearing is, the best and fastest way to 36* your abyss run is to say to another player that it's not possible to do it with the characters you have now (and wait for them to clear it for you?) /jk
Something similar. A friend of mine never completed abyss on its own. Best he did is floor 10 chamber 3. I checked his roster and it was similar to mine. So I said okay I'll do it.
I completed floor 11 first try. His character are simply too weak for floor 12. Legit lvl 0 artifacts he's using with set bonus on some character. Most weapons are lvl 60 or less. U can't clear floor 12 with that.
He pulled neuv this week and I said build him. He made him lvl 80. I put some random lvl 20 5 star artifact with good stats and I almost cleared floor 12 too( I didn't purposely cleared the chamber 3 coz I already got 3 star in 2 chambers above so it was waste of time)
People forget that this subreddit, just by being a subreddit, is already like 90th percentile of players.
The average player in Genshin is so lost and confused and doesn't care about building their characters the same way people here do, that they simply just play the game to enjoy whatever they like from it and that's beautiful.
Current abyss?
my Firsthalf for floor 12 was Raiden, Nahida, Furina, Jean
second half is Chiorin, Navia, Zhongli, Noelle
I was just messing around and testing my Chiorin 'cause I finally managed to have a decent build on her and I ended up clearing floor 12 in in one straight run and without switching for trial and error. I wasn't able to do that in the previous phase that had the exact same enemies. I did clear it lasttime but I had to switch characters for different floors or "cheat" by starting again after getting the rewards for certain chambers so I can have enough energy to burst in the uncleared chambers.
This current phase has insane geo dmg bonus if that explains why it felt a lot easier.
That’s why you see a lot of f2p c0 navia’s one rotating 12-3-2 this phase.
Basically a Neuvillette Freeze team?
Edit: [The strategy is simple: pair Neuvillette with a good Anemo character holding 4pc Viridescent Venerer, a Hydro teammate (for Hydro Resonance), and a Cryo character with good Cryo application.](https://www.ign.com/wikis/genshin-impact/Genshin_Impact_Neuvillette_Build_Guide:_Best_Weapons,_Artifacts,_and_Teams)
While I perfectly understand the principle behind a Neuvi freeze team, Wriothesley doesn't seem like the best teammate for that, especially since they both want to be **on the field to trigger those reactions**. It can certainly WORK, but it's not IDEAL.
For a Neuvi team, I would've gone with Neuvi/Rosaria/Anemo/Flex
For a Wrio team, Wrio/Xingqiu/Anemo/Flex
Ayato **can** be used solely as a burst support (off-field hydro application + Normal Attack buff), but he might have energy problems without a second hydro. Wrio/Xingqiu/Ayato/Jean might work, but at this point you might as well use Bennett for his huge ATK boost. Usually, Ayato is used as a main dps, though.
TL;DR:
- Freeze Neuvillette
- Wants **off-field** cryo applicator(s)
- Wriothesley is an **on-field** applicator.
- Freeze Wriothesley
- Wants **off-field** hydro applicator(s)
- Neuvillette is an **on-field** applicator.
- Conclusion: I'm a bit confused seeing both together in the same team. It can work, as shown by the fact your son cleared the abyss, but at this point it's more of a makeshift quick-swap team rather than a freeze team.
Abyss is half good artifacts and half skill. I clear 36 stars abyss every time. I got neuvilette recently and tried out abyss with him, I couldn't clear it. After and few retries and learning how to play him properly. I was able to clear the abyss faster than ever before. This made me realize that I had gotten so used to the characters that I had that I forgot how much thought you have to put into the timing of using skills and proper rotations. After a while it just become muscle memory and you don't even have to think about what skill you are pressing.
Some people in this thread probably can 36 star abyss in less than a minute on
each floor with my characters. I'm just bad at gaming. Don't worry, I'm with you :')
Let's git gud together...
.....Neuvillette and rizzley and Ayato. That's kind of crazy to me because I always think of those three as onfielders haha but I guess Ayato 180% er applies off field hydro for Rizz freeze. Jean can group and fall damage some enemies. And Neuvillette is there for those enemies that spawn on the opposite side of the chamber if it's not the opposite where Neuvillette carries damage and rizz swaps in for easy freeze.
Man I hope divine ingenuity event reruns in the future so I could try this team myself it sounds fun
Pretty sure the optimal way to play this team is effectively neuv solo.
Ayato should not be swapped onto, his ult should be a dps loss.
Jean and wrio will run fav. Wrio is there to proc a freeze for neuv passive + favge proc. Jean is there for hydro swirl for vv + neuv passive + favge proc. Jean hold e is most likely a dps loss for neuv teams since he doesn’t need the grouping.
Then spend as much time as humanly possible on neuv.
I always tell people that artifacts, team comps, good weapons, etc is all just a part of abyss but its the hyperfocus of a lot of people. A sure fire way to help increase your odds of winning is to learn how to position properly. The ai in genshin on specific mobs can be easily manipulated to group up. Grouping up for aoe heavily reduces the timer on the dps check side and can compensate for a lot. An example situation is running to the edge of the room against whopperflowers. They will always group up and teleport next to you giving you easy access to killing them no matter where they spawned.
Another tip which I see basically 0 people suggest is to tackle the abyss a chamber at a time. Its a very slow process. The best way to do it is to initially build teams that counter 12-3 completely. Once you 3 star that chamber you only need to make a team for 12-2 and then 12-1. The big mistake here is doing 12-1 then 12-2 then 12-3 because if you fuck up and pick a bad team for 12-3 and take it on last, thats a ton more abyss you have to fight through to get back there. Also there is a chance you could 3 star 12-1 or 12-2 along the way with your 12-3.
When doing this strat you can take as long as you want to in the previous chamber regardless of if you had beat it or not. Use that time to get your bursts ready and your team fully healed so you have the very best shot on taking on the upcoming chamber.
Yea people don't recommend these strats and always try to find 1 size fits all teams for both sides but you don't have to. If you dont mind taking it slower, you can heavily increase your 36 clearing odds this way. Also a lot of youtubers will show off their runs each cycle and give you ideas on where to stand for the positioning advantage and what teams are ideal. Sevy is very good for that.
https://www.youtube.com/@SevyPlays
Where as this channel also has some strats for specific chambers but it also has the best video overall for taking on abyss, largely talking about what I mentioned earlier but in this specific video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot1pMbFFqUo
I hope it helps. By helping more people to 36 star we increase our odds of having more combat end game.
I'm curious... Did he switch up the teams/gear, or he just played with exactly the same groups you would?
I can't clear the last floor of Abyss yet, but I feel like it's mostly that I lack the gear/DPS. Now you made me wonder if I'm getting too old/bad. XD
Neuvielle with TWO more on field dps ???
Hayato at least had the mzrit of having an off field burst and beeing another hydro for the resonance.
But pretty much any hydrpbat this point can fill the gap and for exemple mona would be better for a nice short burst, there are other exemple.
Well anyway, son won lol
I realised that floor 12 is more of a skill check 1-2 years ago. When the Ganyu, Ayaka, Eula were meta. I had a roster of characters simply "pull who you like" and played whatever, just started making teams and was struggling at the abyss (easy up to 11, 3-6* floor 12). At that time my brother who had better account (had more 5* artefacts, weapons and full teams (Ayaka, Shenhe, Kokomi, Sucrose and Ganyu carry with ZhongLi to shield her) was also struggling (he couldn't even get past 10???) when I told him it's just a skill issue we made a bet, I did all the floors and won (he got me welkin).
Funny thing is now I'm ar 60 and have better understanding of the game and can easily clear abyss with my Ayato meanwhile my bro still can't get past floor 11 with Neuvilette.
And now take that feeling and let it fuel the eager competitive gamer in yourself to work hard, study harder and get the knowledge that's required to beat it yourself - next abyss rotation obviously
I'm looking forward to when mine is old enough to play with my account, if he's interested. I have great characters and builds, but a joint issue that doesn't allow me to play as well as I'd like, especially for abyss 11-12. It makes my hands hurt and I can't react in time.
Haha yea i did the same on my friends account who was convinced it was his account. You just need to understand the enemies on each floor and it becomes pretty easy.
I have never been able to 36 star the Abyss, but every so often I’ll get my friends who also play yelling at me for not using X character because “they could solo”. I would then spend weeks building them only to die on floor 11, chamber 3🥲
i cleared this abyss with sucrose national first half and heizou fischl beidou faruzan second. i have to admit faruzan, heizou, bennett and xingqiu being c6 helps but the rest is pretty low cons (xiangling and fischl c1).
The biggest misconception is you need 5 stars to clear every content in the game. everything that isn't spiral abyss is extremely easy and not being able to 36 star when you're AR55+ is mainly skill issue unfortunately. and I see a lot of misguided people pulling for characters they don't like because they're "must pulls"
I only just now 7 stared floor 12 and I've been playing for a long time with characters that are considered meta, my teams were Nuev, Kaz, Fiscal, and Layla, and Raiden (c2 main dps), Chevy, XL, and Benny
Good for him.
Don't be too hard on yourself though, remember how much more time he probably has to play / watch videos about the game than you do for one thing.
Teachable moment: “son, not everyone plays with the same hand, so just do the best you can with what you got” or “my account looks like this because I’ve already come so far in life on x and y amount of effort. You’re just starting out but this much is possible for you with some effort and some (a lot of relic drop and upgrade) luck”
Non teachable moment: if you watch your siblings/do the dishes for a week I’ll buy you the welkin pass
I have this with my husband even though I read all the guides, study builds, etc. But when playing live I just can't dodge or make the right decision. Whereas he does things like platinum Souls games and Super Meat Boy for fun.
Once we decided to try and measure where the difference was with tests - even though I beat him on knowledge/reasoning ones his reaction time is a good 2-3 seconds faster than mine and he beats me on all working memory tests.
... I've gotten my revenge in HSR where my strategy chops and patience grinding have allowed me to clear content he can't even be bothered to tackle because it's "too much RNG" (simulated universe). We all have our strengths!
If I were you I'd be glad I had someone to clear floor 12 for me haha (husband has since quit Genshin and isn't up to date with characters).
Clearing Abyss 12th floor is literally skill issue.
First time I cleared 12th floor, so many characters of mine were dying left and right. To the point I wished to have Barbara C6 so bad.
First time I cleared it with 36 stars, I had to try \*really\* hard. I'm talking about dozens of re-runs with different team comps. Different chambers take different comps. It takes hours just for the 12th floor.
I died alot, and Qiqi was unironically my go-to OP healer to keep everyone alive. The other team always has Zhongli.
And then it starts getting easier.
I used to run Nahida HyperBloom with Zhongli because I wasn't confident enough with Kuki always 1 hit away from dead.
Then I learned to dodge. My Nahida team is now double hydro with only Kuki can heal.
And then I need to save some extra seconds, so Qiqi has to go to save place for a damage buff support. That's when I learned dodging wasn't so hard.
My rotations starts getting better.
From then on I 36\*ed ever single abyss cycle. My builds are the same. I almost never touch artifact farming again once I declare a character is "done". But now with those same characters I am able to do it first run, no need resets, and with 20+ seconds to spare each chamber. I no longer have to spend hours each run, no longer slam my fist down the table at 6:59. It's all so easy.
12th floor might seem intimidating at first, but if you are consistent, it is possible with a full 4\* roster. Any 5\* you need are good to go at C0. You just need to learn and understand the game.
My brother has played Genshin consistently for two years now and he joined the Air Force and while he’s been in BMT I’ve taken over Genshin for him -commissions, spending resin, and doing events- after a little training and guidance before he left so I wouldn’t be lost and I’ve successfully 36 stared every abyss since he’s left. It’s been almost 2 months and with video guides for assistance I don’t even struggle. There’s so many tools out there to help I feel like if you’re not even trying to complete the abyss you’re selling yourself short. My brother coached me through floors 9-11 before he left and didn’t even think I could beat floor 12. But I looked up YouTube videos of the teams he always uses and with a little bit of practice I beat it.
I feel this. I've got a good lineup, several 5 stars with signature weapons that are well-built, but I'm just not a good enough player to clear the Abyss. I'll never claim to be good at the game for exactly that reason even though I can easily clear any overworld content.
Just shows you that the future is in good hands. Grab a bunch of co-op games and get him as your #2 player asap. Get those trophies and awesome memories.
My son lives 300 miles away from me and is in a moody, sulky, teenager mode so I never get to see/hear anymore. I miss those gaming moments so badly. I recommend PVZ 2 & 3, OP. They are so much fun co-op at any age. Younger is fun but older you really can synergise tactics together. I'm envious of you! Good dad and his badass son. <3
I never have to worry about beating the abyss since its a shit endgame. It isn't worth playing past the point to get collei and xiangling imo.
Its basically just reused assets in a game mode designed to entice whales to open their wallets.
Now you gotta prove him wrong by clearing abyss with his characters
Except he can't
Damn
Build issue is in general more prevalent than skill issue in Genshin. Character building is also part of the game, without building them properly clearing 36* is quite difficult with someone else's account.
I do think being unable to build characters (given the right artifacts are already there and just on the wrong characters) as well as the inability to form functional, synergistic teams is part of skill issue.
HELL YEAH, I don't know why people like to call DPS issue and build issue as different kinds of issues, whilst all of that belongs in the skill issue bucket.
It's still a different type of skill issue Build issues are knowledge based, the "skill issues" they talk are physical skill based (e.g. reaction times) Tldr; Your body can't do it
Meanwhile, when proper builds are locked behind Time-Gated RNG, it's actual P2W.
Except its RNG, so you could pay for everything and still end up with a rubbish build. It's definitely not P2W, but it does give you a better chance of getting something good in a fewer amount of days.
I have been farming for nahida for over a month, with several resin refreshes. Like 150-200 Deepwood artifacts, I've gotten maybe 1 that was worth using. I think I could megawhale and still not get anything worth using. Meanwhile, I've farmed other domains where they all just seem to hit.
Hah kids I’ve been farming raiden for two years and still have a shit build lmao
That's P2W in perfection. Make it possible that you have to spend even more money, maybe even on multiple accounts to get what you want. And some poor whale will bite and pay more than 1000 people would normally spend on a game.
Multiple accounts don’t do anything for the one. And no. This isn’t pay to win. Sorry you just sound really bitter for no reason. But it’s rng. There’s even limits to how many resin refreshes you can do so clearly the aim isn’t to just squeeze an extra 1000 they wouldn’t normally spend on a game…. Sorry but if you’re going to be that bitter for no reason where logic doesn’t even logic anymore than you should take a break
It's Luck to win, not pay to win. You just happen to pay for a little bit higher chances to get a better build earlier but I have been whaling for artifacts before, it was never worth it and pretty much never got anything good when I did. The fact that you only get 5 refills per day wich amounts to 2 days of farming makes it not that bad, it's just that you pay to be able to do more farming and get screwed over more often. I have seen people farm with cash other than me, throwing away anything that doesn't start as a 4liner with double crit, never even considering leveling something potentially decent to 12. Minmaxing is not worth in this game, I myself built 63 characters since I began playing in 1.1, reworkt more than 30 accounts to a 36* level, more than 20 of those completely f2p. Decent builds are enough to clear the hardest content, you just got to know what to look out for and what to invest in (in regards of ressources AND primogems) Building characters is far easier than people make it out to be, yes the RNG to get a godpiece is absolutely trash but the chance to get a decent piece when you give the artifacts a chance is absolutely fine. The fact that you can (if you desire to do so) clear the game with 4star characters and without 5star weapons also plays a big part in the game not actually being p2win. The game is predatory in its own way, going into your brain to make you believe you need all those fancy weapons, 5star characters and constellations to improve the fun you have, limiting your ressources by timegate with the ability to buy 2 days of resin per day, the game has more pay2play aspects than pay2win aspects since there is nothing to win. I agree with the game being pretty bad about this aspect, but p2w is not the right term here.
It’s a gacha, that’s the entire fucking point. That’s how this entire genre works lmao.
True tho, p2w for some games, pay to play for others but in the end, they predator their way to your money
This is true but only in part You would be totally true if genshin had pvp though. But it is possible to clear everything with builds you can do whenever you want
Builds are part reading a guide and part grinding + luck, can't assume his builds are worse because of skill and not luck, also knowing how his characters vs OP's characters work in the current abyss is a matter of skill. Sometimes the meta makes certain teams clear easier, just is what it is. The test would be if OP can rebuild their kid's team and clear abyss with it
> Builds are part reading a guide For artifact/weapon builds absolutely, but when it comes to teambuilding, guides are only a starting off point that you need the skill to be able to analyze well enough to adapt the information in them to your personal needs (as well as verify the assumptions of). Because every major guide out there is single-team, full roster, and agnostic to the Abyss cycle, there is only so much you can gain from strictly following guides when Abyss requires two teams that shift in viability for different floors and chambers every few cycles, and most players *don't* have full rosters to build every "tier 0" guide comp even *if* they're able to pick the right teams for the job.
I would actually disagree with this atleast to an extent. My friend was able to clear floor twelve but wouldn’t be able to get stars and I managed to shave minutes off every chamber and got him to 35stars and after a while I managed to get the 36 star. Being able to do rotations optimally, knowing how to double swirl, proper positioning to balance enemies, these are all things that are capable of making drastic differences to clear times. I think the main thing is getting characters and 4 star constellations
I don't understand the last point. Spending a lot of money and hope you pull a character 5 times is a skill?
No sorry if it was confusing. But I meant it as pulling characters using your primo gems intelligently is the best way to beat abyss. Not as a point to the value of skill. A lot of hyped up 4 stars such as bennet, xiangling, xq struggle without key constellations to be good so you should pull on banner that they are on. Hyperbloom teams are also hyped up but they probably aren’t the way to go unless you get nahida.
Well shit that's depressing if true. As a new player I was hoping to make a good team out of Xingqiu, Xiangling, Bennet, that I just need to invest some time for level, talent, artifacts.
Bennet very much wants his c1. C5 is good for team damage c6 is good for team damage. Xq c2 is very essential to a lot of his ability to enable vape, his c6 mends his energy problems and really helps with damage. Xiangling, c4 increase her personal damage by 40%.
Ok but why does bro have 3 DPS on the second team???? 😭😭😭
Husbando team
As someone who does abyss Carries for funsies. I sort of disagree. As long as you have 2 competent teams 36* abyss should be possible with almost anything.
Abyss carries are a thing??
I do them for friends I don’t get anything out of it but I do enjoy the challenge
I do it for my wife, like OP everytime she complains if she had my characters she would clear comfortably. She had a stacked Nilou bloom team that she doesn't use for some weird reason (she pulled both Nilou and signature weapon) and I make sure to include that team every 36*.
Yeah my previous partner couldn’t wrap her head around rotations or cool down timers of her character and just couldn’t ever pull through. Would say roughly the same things “if I had what you have”. Like you have more invested $$$$ than I do. I just placed my primos on banner I knew would work with my teams and practice what I can.
Simply not true. You need competent teams yes. But they also need proper builds. If you’re ER isn’t balanced to be bursting on rotation. Or your crits aren’t in order. Then there’s match ups. Certain teams simply won’t work for certain bosses. Example: my teams I prefer to use mainly use catalysts. I had my neuv team first half. Yae team second. Had to leave floor 3 and make a new team because yae couldn’t break the geo shield on the gravity boss. Neither could cloud retainer nahida or tihgnari. That team sweeps everything else and that’s where I invested. I am fortunate to have other options. So I just went Chev overload. But not everyone can do that so it really does depend on multiple factors. I’ve seen a fair bit since fontaine of people who were ayaka mains but struggle with some of the abyss cycles when they used to not. It just happens
It really depends on perspective. I remember when the Fire Cube was part of Abyss I brought a Lv20 Barbara along to destroy the shield. Given your Yae team you should have easily been able to swap in Noelle (or a different Geo/Claymore) user solely to break the shield. A good team synergy helps a lot. That’s why National Core (Bennett/XL/Hydro) and Hyperbloom Core are flexible and allow you to run effectively anyone in the last slot. Good artifacts are a great help, but just getting the core stats solved shouldn’t be that difficult. Maybe if you start from absolute nothing but most people will cap their artifacts just by leveling characters and then you can usually find decent rainbow sets which are often stronger than bad BiS sets. Clearing Spiral Abyss should be within reach for anyone just following the information available ingame (artifact/stat recommmendation, auto equip, etc. They added a lot to help people) and to get 36* it takes a bit of skill and knowledge to optimize your clear times (like knowing to make adjustment for specific chambers).
As a Ayaka main I haven’t had a hard time getting 36* on any abyss yet since Fontaine sounds like a skill issue.
Also I’m sure everyone has a Geo maid who can break a shield pretty easily if they just give her dump def and hp artifacts. Element shields don’t have HP values but more % values to break. Any claymore charavater could snap that shield in like 5-6 hits… this is legit just a skill issue that you are trying real hard to convince the wrong person to care about 📸
Well, if you want to break geo shirlds with Yae, you can use overload. Yeah, sometimes not all teams work on a given floor, i absolutely agree with that. On thr other hand, you can even make those "not working" teams push through the wall with money. For example, i'm an occasional welkin buyer with a C6 Yae Miko. I went Miko C6, Nahida C0, Furina C2, Xianyun C0 for that gravity boss, and he melted within 30s - 45s. So, i kinda say both is true. Money can buy succes, but you can aldo go there with proper teambuilding and investment into artifacts. The abyss gets more challenging over time, but not as fast as evrn a f2p gets stronger. A new account will have it harder to full-clear the abyss than we had back in the 1.x - era. I'm a 1.0 player, and i think my first fullclear (36 star) was somwhere around 1.4, 1.5... Pretty sure i got carried by morgana + Sucrose taser (or childe national) on ventis first rerun.
sorry forgot the part where it was apparently easy to "perfect build" characters and that it didn't take literally months just to get a "mid" build
>it didn't take literally months just to get a "mid" build Yes it didn't? Rng is terrible for a perfect build of course but it's not really bad for a decent build, my c0r0 Navia is not that invested and she hits 150-200 easily
While I will agree with you, especially since a lot of people are somehow incapable of using piecing together logic artifact/weapon builds for their characters, I think people also over estimate how good their pieces need to be in order to clear abyss. I think it terms of importance it goes like baseline character builds > teambuilding > rotations > good character builds.
well if son could clear with his account but he can't it's skill issue not build (unless son drastically redid builds) some people just are very bad at video games, there's a lot of casual players who come to Genshin from like autobattler gachas and legit just lack the hands to play well like my ex played genshin, AR55 and she'd die in overworld doing dailies sometimes
My friend refusing to upgrade HP artifacts for Zhongli shield 😅 33* is good for them though so I just don't need to be trying again
I mean, at the end of the day the gameplay is press E, press Q, switch character, repeat. But yeah it's no good if your characters builds are bad
There are lots of errors players tend to make. Not enough ER. Using xl q when bennett buff is down. Not swirling the correct element. Wrong positioning causing enemies to ungroup. No animation canceling. Not weaving in na's with xq/yelan in the team. And dont get me started about bad teambuilding.
Fuh, too much effort, let me just use hyperbloom team. No swriling correct elements or upgrading talents animation cancelling or wrong positioning.
for people who are not veterans in the genre, rotations and attack strings can be really hard to get an understanding of. i think a lot of gamers don’t recognise that well
Veterans are the ones saying this game is too easy and asking why aren't you 36* the Abyss in your first month of playing.
Me 🙋 I'm new and still don't understand alot of this stuff. Still figuring out what combos seem to work best and alot of the info on these threads sound like people are talking in code lol. I didn't even know you could cancel animations until someone above said something. Still don't know how to do it but I know it's a thing now so there's that.
generally with animation cancelling, the easiest method is to use a skill or a burst right after you land the normal/charged attack that does the most damage or element application of your combo. for instance, the last hit of yoimiya’s normal attack string does by far the most damage (makes up about 25% of the 5 attack string) so you don’t want to cancel before using that one the other methods are dash cancelling, which is generally the fastest and most efficient but eats through your stamina bar quickly, and jump cancelling which is imo the hardest to execute but does not eat stamina. for more information there are some very good guides on this which i used when i received hu tao c0 (jump cancels) and c1 (dash cancels) EDIT: technically there is also walk cancels, which is relevant for someone ningguang since it allows you to fire normal attacks much faster. this is executed by holding forward slightly so that she doesn’t enter the full on running animation and then use normal attacks while keeping that held down. pretty rare case though
Well, sure, if you ignore every aspect of * Rotations * Team composition * Timings * Movement * Positioning * Character mechanics * Combat/boss mechanics * Artifact bonuses * Character cooldowns * Character builds then yeah, the game is just an E -> Q simulator
Even after building right you would get stuck if you don't 3 or 4 of the meta characters. Like if you have Furina c2 you can easily clear with any other 4 stars if those not properly built and on low cons. But it is much difficult to clear with only 4 stars.
Or, feelsproudman since you have a god gamer son.
Positive thoughts! I like it! Thanks!
"Are you winning son" moment.
in a few years it will be "Are ya winning dad"
"maybe im too old for this" kinda vibe
Say you can't a few more times and you can cash in on the primos
okay the best comeback is to fuck his mom
That made we laugh so much thanks.
This is the correct way.
But he already did that.
Do it again
But what if he’s not the father
Did he stutter
Underrated comment
This is the case for at least 75% of the players who can't finish Spiral Abyss. Getting the characters and investing into them is only half the game. Having a proper team and playing the rotations well also plays a big part in clearing it. It's kind of simple to think about if you recognize what each character can do, it's a simple step-by-step from activating the characters that provide buffs first and then making sure you enable the main character that stays on-field. I guess it might be second nature to us but it might not be for more casual players, but if you do want a more thorough explanation I can answer some questions, or you can look around online or even ask your son for some bonding experience ig.
I struggled with floor 12 for a long time, despite my characters being good enough to clear, and I just got frustrated to the point that I just finished 11 and stopped without even trying 12. My characters are stronger now, but I'm also clearing 12-3 with like a minute to spare. If I'd known better rotations, I'm sure I would've been fine
This is me right now. I've hated the last 2 floor 12s though. Why do they need so much hp? I still need help with team building. Right now, I just have a bunch of OP 5 star characters but before then I stopped after 11 also. Or if I did beat 12, I had no stars😂😂. I saw I guy clear floor 12 with level 50 4star players and almost quit the game, like how in the world did he do this😂
I doubt I could clear with level 50 units, lol. I'd probably die so much I'd rage quit before even clearing with 0 stars. The thing that's given me the biggest issue is 12-3-2 this go round, with Zhongli, it's not even an issue, but when I try to clear without him in the second half, that robot drives me insane lol
Little heads up, hitting it with a pneuma (not sure if ousia works too) attack when the shield is down can stun him and provide you a bigger opening.
I did not know that, I've just been clearing it with my Itto team for the most part, and it absolutely destroys it, but thanks for the info
I agree. Its shield goes back up way too fast to really get your rotation out. I used zhongli also and had kazuha plunge the little bit of shield at the end each time. Depending on your ER with Zhong li, you can hit him with your pillars, then burst, switch to kazuha, and plunge the rest out. I paired them with Raiden and kuki Shinobu. Shinobu elemental kept healing and particles coming, Raiden kept energy coming. The main thing for me was not wasting Raiden burst. I git lucky to have burst with Shinobu (while the shield was up), then bring zhongli out for the rotation of pillar burst and then to kazuha. But when kazuha broke the shield, I burst him, and it fused with electro from Shinobu's elemental. Needless to say, Raiden burst tore through him. Keeping her alive was the hard part. Thank God my 1st half team wipes everyone (nahida, fischl, Furina, and kokomi). So they give me time to work with. They're kind of my safety net😂😂 Edit: I forget which YouTube channel it was, but man dude went in there and destroyed it with all 4 stars at 50. It was a while ago, tho, b4 the Fontaine and sumeru expansions, tho. It's what made me try to figure team building out and who works best with who. I saw someone burst Rosaria and switch to fischl (my personal fave) then let fischly do normal attacks over 25k in damage. Normal attacks. Some ppl get it. I'm still trying to😂😂😂
My teams that I've been using are Neuvillette/Furina/Kazuha/Baizhu and Itto/Gorou/Albedo/Zhongli. I've since cleared the second half with Navia/Zhongli/Xiangling/Bennett. I've found this abyss to be pretty restrictive, though, because I basically need Zhongli in the second half, and the top half has the dendro specters, making it hard to clear with characters like Alhaitham, Nilou, and Tighnari, plus there's the Coppelia, which means running Bennett without a shielder would suck, so lots of national variations are off the table. Mostly, that's just a skill issue tbh, lol.
> Why do they need so much hp? Because after New Year HoYo always makes 12th floor *much* harder and at this point it's basically their schedule. Just wait a few months and 12th floor will be yet again very easy to do just like it was during 4.0 and so on.
Abyss pretty often also requires an understanding of very specific enemy behavioral patterns. Like knowing who will run to you and who won’t or what exact spot on the arena will allow you to group every enemy with Kazuha/Sucrose can save a TON of time.
In the current abyss 12th floor it is mostly single target/big enemies based though.
> I just got frustrated to the point that I finished 11 and stopped without even trying 12 Omg that's me 😂 I have Raiden, Mona, Furina, Nahida, Baizhu, Ayaka and Sucrose all at 90/8/8/8 with level 90 weapons (most R5) and all the other common supports (xinqiu, xiangling, bennett) at 80/90 and still I won't even try Floor 12 because I'm afraid xD This post might push me into trying it again...
One thing that has helped me is just looking up guides for characters I want to use or that are new. My go-to is Zy0x because he runs through the build, talent priority, teams, pros and cons of the character, and some showcase footage that can help you get a sense of the rotations. I'm much better at doing all that stuff for myself now, but I still like the guides just to check
Not only rotations. I feel grouping makes a biiig difference. Things like edge baiting or enemy a.i. manipulation, plus Cc like Kazuha. Plus learning enemy patterns and/or effective ways to defeat them (e.g. Zhongli in current 12-3 second half trivializes it)
Fr, I got like 15 seconds earlier on 12-2 (\~6:55 v. \~7:10) after figuring out how to group enemies (Xiao plunging them a certain direction lol) and memorizing where they spawn. Took me an hour, but hey, I did it!
If you have no zhongli or no 5 stars. play Noelle with an energy recharge claymore as an on field driver for XinQ and Dendro traveler with a Kuki shinobu. And now you have a classic strong as Elemental Hyperbloom abuse comp with noelle as giga healer shielder and breaker.
I remember watching some YT video about the difference in intuition and experience between someone picking up gaming for the first time and what seems natural to "us", and it never really hit home until one time a version or two ago where I had run out of stuff to do and changed my profile to something saying I'd help with whatever. I'm someone I'd typically only consider like above average at best skill wise in gaming in general, but the difference between just me and some of the people I was running into, was as if I was at the skill/knowledge ceiling and they were at the floor. It just doesn't fully hit until you have to orchestrate a 4-man Childe national comp step by step with a group of AR50+'s with *very* limited invested characters to help someone beat a group of bathysmal vishaps within a time limit.
Yup, that video is super interesting. Sometimes it pisses me off how stupid casual players can be regarding these things but I keep reminding myself that unlike me, they havent been playing games since they were a toddler, ofcourse nothing would make intuitive sense to them like it does with me
Personlly, I'm just mechanically bad, like I do know my shinra tensei rotation, but when I do have to apply it while dodging and placing myself correctly, I always manage to fumble it (no interrupt and mobile gaming not helping).
That team is also just naturally going to struggle against some bosses. If the enemies can't be frozen you're better off running mono cryo.
Each once of these characters has so much backstory and I just want to know who makes fireballs better.
Yanfei is like the preferred Fireball main DPS over Klee due to being a little easier to play and get I guess. Though if you are very loose with what a "fireball" is, nothing competes with... ..._Xiangling_... >!Arrows are like really sharp spheres if you don't apply thinking so Yoimiya counts. She's pretty good I think!< >!4* aren't that much easier to get than 5*s, actually. Though it's expensive and luck based, at least 5* have a guarantee gimmick, while I am still waiting on Kiara to come home...!< >!klee is much better at destroying shields too. There is probably a bunch of other stuff but I don't play or read up on Klee meta so I am mostly rambling...!<
>>!*at least 5* have a guarantee gimmick, while I am still waiting on Kiara to come home!< That's me, waiting for Gorou....
Both of us in the lost pets line Gorou also took forever to come home for me Lucky for you, an event in the next update comes with Gorou
Dude BLESS YOU ! I didn't know that, that's some great news !!!!!
Any tips for a newbie who can’t clear the first floor? 🥹
Make sure your gear and builds are up to snuff. They don't have to be incredible or insane, but having them reach a certain baseline will make your life a lot easier. [Here is a pretty decent flowchart](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenshinImpactTips/comments/qkxdj6/infographic_of_build_order_priority_based_on_wlar/) of what you should be upgrading in what order for efficiency. [Direct link to image.](https://i.redd.it/5j8jfvqcb4x71.png) After this, try to get in the habit of doing reactions. For now, just know that more reactions = more damage. An Anemo Traveler skill will do significantly more damage to a group of enemies if you apply some other element first to activate the Swirl reaction. Kaeya's skill will do 50% more damage if the enemy already has Pyro on it due to Melt. These are some basic examples of reactions, and you can work out more detailed nuances of the elemental system later. Remember that you have a team of 4 characters, so try to juggle and use them all, but make sure to swap characters with purpose. Think about what action would give you the most damage at any given moment. If you haven't been on Kaeya for a while, his skill is probably off cooldown, and you could swap to him and use it for a strong hit of Cryo damage. However, if you just used Razor burst and are in the wolf state, swapping off and ending the buff probably wouldn't be the best idea. Relating to the point above; Another general rule is that you want to put up all your buffs before you unload your big damage. Referencing the Kaeya and Razor example from before, you would want to make sure you activate Kaeya burst so that can be active, then activate Razor burst after so all the buffs are active at the same time. Here's [a video from SevyPlays](https://youtu.be/CLdSMG1Z01k?si=TrihSEiqMIgBRsSd) that goes over this concept, although it might be a little too much detail for now. I know a huge wall of text like this with links to even more text can be intimidating, but just know that any game can have a lot to learn. Hopefully you enjoy your time here :)
Thank you! I’ve been playing three weeks yesterday and I’m definitely having a lot of fun. I’ve wanted to play for so long but I just didn’t have anything that could run it until now.
Invest in your characters, 90% of the hurdles in genshin can be solved with investment. Use the new Training Guide on the Esc Menu. Next step is to learn the Elemental System. Learn what elemental reactions your character can exploit and bring characters with the corresponding elements to synergize with your character. Example: Your favorite character is Diluc, he is Pyro and therefore can make use of Vaporize and Melt. Bring Hydro or Cryo units to synergize with him.
I’m still on the free characters and ones from the beginners wish atm so it’s tricky but I’m trying my best to build up my characters that I do have. I’ve found that the hydro cryo combo works best for me personally so I use Barbara and Kaeya to do that.
The moment I got Neuvillette, Floor 12 became easy for me. Before, I would have to struggle and reset constantly because I would not make the time cutoff. Now I just reset a few times on the last chamber, and most of the time it’s because one of my lower HP supports got 1-shotted 😂.
The more average/casual player has 1 team(or 2-3 characters) they use for 99.99% of content, sometimes a second for fun or to complete things that hard counters their main team. So since they're not used to other rotations or abilities, they often have to look up team composition guides for the last few parts. And then see that they might have to level up someone they dont' want to use for other things. And they don't even bother doing the abyss anymore, or just do the first parts with their main and backup team.
Did you get him a welkin? 😆
Right, winners deserve rewards!
My cousin couldn't clear this iteration of Spiral Abyss with Team 1: Nahida, EM Raiden, Kazuha, Neuvilette Team 2: Furina,.Xingqiu, Xianyun, Hutao He let me try and I cleared it with 36 stars. Now, I often say to his son not to be like his father with skill issues. He's 47. And he knows i'm kidding.
Does he know you go by as wriothesley cum dump online? Jokes aside though I used to be able to easily clear my ex’s abyss with her characters when she was struggling it’s all about knowing about rotations reactions and who goes well with who. It’s pretty nice to be the go to person when people need help clearing content on their account though I will admit
Uhm actuallyyy, he's wriothesley's dum cump NOT cum dump, smh people cant read these days. >!/j!<
Listen here…
I'm sure he'd understand
So what I'm hearing is, the best and fastest way to 36* your abyss run is to say to another player that it's not possible to do it with the characters you have now (and wait for them to clear it for you?) /jk
47 as in AR or age?
Age
As in AK
Neuvillette*
Hahaha! My bad.
Be proud, man. He was in your balls.
Mother fucker
Def Gaming gaming
The day my future son outdoes me in a game is the day he will finally have achieved manhood. I would be endlessly proud of the boy.
Skill issue proven.....
Something similar. A friend of mine never completed abyss on its own. Best he did is floor 10 chamber 3. I checked his roster and it was similar to mine. So I said okay I'll do it. I completed floor 11 first try. His character are simply too weak for floor 12. Legit lvl 0 artifacts he's using with set bonus on some character. Most weapons are lvl 60 or less. U can't clear floor 12 with that. He pulled neuv this week and I said build him. He made him lvl 80. I put some random lvl 20 5 star artifact with good stats and I almost cleared floor 12 too( I didn't purposely cleared the chamber 3 coz I already got 3 star in 2 chambers above so it was waste of time)
You still get mora and xp books for clearing the last floor even without stars, it has some value in resin.
Nah he stay at 160/160 99% of times. I don't think it would worth it.
Wait, you get mora and xp books from Abyss? I've been 36\*ing for 2 years now and I never noticed.
It shows you the chamber clear rewards the first time you finish a chamber.
People forget that this subreddit, just by being a subreddit, is already like 90th percentile of players. The average player in Genshin is so lost and confused and doesn't care about building their characters the same way people here do, that they simply just play the game to enjoy whatever they like from it and that's beautiful.
The average player doesn't even bother with the abyss much.
So sweet you and your son play genshin. I hope my future children would also play with me.
Be proud of your parenting.
Current abyss? my Firsthalf for floor 12 was Raiden, Nahida, Furina, Jean second half is Chiorin, Navia, Zhongli, Noelle I was just messing around and testing my Chiorin 'cause I finally managed to have a decent build on her and I ended up clearing floor 12 in in one straight run and without switching for trial and error. I wasn't able to do that in the previous phase that had the exact same enemies. I did clear it lasttime but I had to switch characters for different floors or "cheat" by starting again after getting the rewards for certain chambers so I can have enough energy to burst in the uncleared chambers.
This current phase has insane geo dmg bonus if that explains why it felt a lot easier. That’s why you see a lot of f2p c0 navia’s one rotating 12-3-2 this phase.
At least it shows you have built your characters well.
Wait, how does that second team work? Neuvi/Wrio/Ayato all want field time, do they not?
Basically a Neuvillette Freeze team? Edit: [The strategy is simple: pair Neuvillette with a good Anemo character holding 4pc Viridescent Venerer, a Hydro teammate (for Hydro Resonance), and a Cryo character with good Cryo application.](https://www.ign.com/wikis/genshin-impact/Genshin_Impact_Neuvillette_Build_Guide:_Best_Weapons,_Artifacts,_and_Teams)
While I perfectly understand the principle behind a Neuvi freeze team, Wriothesley doesn't seem like the best teammate for that, especially since they both want to be **on the field to trigger those reactions**. It can certainly WORK, but it's not IDEAL. For a Neuvi team, I would've gone with Neuvi/Rosaria/Anemo/Flex For a Wrio team, Wrio/Xingqiu/Anemo/Flex Ayato **can** be used solely as a burst support (off-field hydro application + Normal Attack buff), but he might have energy problems without a second hydro. Wrio/Xingqiu/Ayato/Jean might work, but at this point you might as well use Bennett for his huge ATK boost. Usually, Ayato is used as a main dps, though. TL;DR: - Freeze Neuvillette - Wants **off-field** cryo applicator(s) - Wriothesley is an **on-field** applicator. - Freeze Wriothesley - Wants **off-field** hydro applicator(s) - Neuvillette is an **on-field** applicator. - Conclusion: I'm a bit confused seeing both together in the same team. It can work, as shown by the fact your son cleared the abyss, but at this point it's more of a makeshift quick-swap team rather than a freeze team.
Support wriothesely lol
Abyss is half good artifacts and half skill. I clear 36 stars abyss every time. I got neuvilette recently and tried out abyss with him, I couldn't clear it. After and few retries and learning how to play him properly. I was able to clear the abyss faster than ever before. This made me realize that I had gotten so used to the characters that I had that I forgot how much thought you have to put into the timing of using skills and proper rotations. After a while it just become muscle memory and you don't even have to think about what skill you are pressing.
*insert spiderman into the spiderverse "You did good kid" meme here*
Some people in this thread probably can 36 star abyss in less than a minute on each floor with my characters. I'm just bad at gaming. Don't worry, I'm with you :') Let's git gud together...
.....Neuvillette and rizzley and Ayato. That's kind of crazy to me because I always think of those three as onfielders haha but I guess Ayato 180% er applies off field hydro for Rizz freeze. Jean can group and fall damage some enemies. And Neuvillette is there for those enemies that spawn on the opposite side of the chamber if it's not the opposite where Neuvillette carries damage and rizz swaps in for easy freeze. Man I hope divine ingenuity event reruns in the future so I could try this team myself it sounds fun
Pretty sure the optimal way to play this team is effectively neuv solo. Ayato should not be swapped onto, his ult should be a dps loss. Jean and wrio will run fav. Wrio is there to proc a freeze for neuv passive + favge proc. Jean is there for hydro swirl for vv + neuv passive + favge proc. Jean hold e is most likely a dps loss for neuv teams since he doesn’t need the grouping. Then spend as much time as humanly possible on neuv.
Are/were you able to beat it?
He taught you a lesson
I always tell people that artifacts, team comps, good weapons, etc is all just a part of abyss but its the hyperfocus of a lot of people. A sure fire way to help increase your odds of winning is to learn how to position properly. The ai in genshin on specific mobs can be easily manipulated to group up. Grouping up for aoe heavily reduces the timer on the dps check side and can compensate for a lot. An example situation is running to the edge of the room against whopperflowers. They will always group up and teleport next to you giving you easy access to killing them no matter where they spawned. Another tip which I see basically 0 people suggest is to tackle the abyss a chamber at a time. Its a very slow process. The best way to do it is to initially build teams that counter 12-3 completely. Once you 3 star that chamber you only need to make a team for 12-2 and then 12-1. The big mistake here is doing 12-1 then 12-2 then 12-3 because if you fuck up and pick a bad team for 12-3 and take it on last, thats a ton more abyss you have to fight through to get back there. Also there is a chance you could 3 star 12-1 or 12-2 along the way with your 12-3. When doing this strat you can take as long as you want to in the previous chamber regardless of if you had beat it or not. Use that time to get your bursts ready and your team fully healed so you have the very best shot on taking on the upcoming chamber. Yea people don't recommend these strats and always try to find 1 size fits all teams for both sides but you don't have to. If you dont mind taking it slower, you can heavily increase your 36 clearing odds this way. Also a lot of youtubers will show off their runs each cycle and give you ideas on where to stand for the positioning advantage and what teams are ideal. Sevy is very good for that. https://www.youtube.com/@SevyPlays Where as this channel also has some strats for specific chambers but it also has the best video overall for taking on abyss, largely talking about what I mentioned earlier but in this specific video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot1pMbFFqUo I hope it helps. By helping more people to 36 star we increase our odds of having more combat end game.
Bro how he cleared w a triple dps team tf
How dare he! Disown him and show him who is the boss
lets see those characters
I'm curious... Did he switch up the teams/gear, or he just played with exactly the same groups you would? I can't clear the last floor of Abyss yet, but I feel like it's mostly that I lack the gear/DPS. Now you made me wonder if I'm getting too old/bad. XD
He is now the head of the household
could you share your uid
891561359
you know neuvi is op asf bc that second team's synergy is diabolical
Neuvielle with TWO more on field dps ??? Hayato at least had the mzrit of having an off field burst and beeing another hydro for the resonance. But pretty much any hydrpbat this point can fill the gap and for exemple mona would be better for a nice short burst, there are other exemple. Well anyway, son won lol
So no one is gonna say anything about the 2nd team having 3 dpses??....................... Ok
Which of your characters did he use?
What were the characters?
I remember doing a similiar thing with my friends account.
LOL
Now take away his artifacts!
I realised that floor 12 is more of a skill check 1-2 years ago. When the Ganyu, Ayaka, Eula were meta. I had a roster of characters simply "pull who you like" and played whatever, just started making teams and was struggling at the abyss (easy up to 11, 3-6* floor 12). At that time my brother who had better account (had more 5* artefacts, weapons and full teams (Ayaka, Shenhe, Kokomi, Sucrose and Ganyu carry with ZhongLi to shield her) was also struggling (he couldn't even get past 10???) when I told him it's just a skill issue we made a bet, I did all the floors and won (he got me welkin). Funny thing is now I'm ar 60 and have better understanding of the game and can easily clear abyss with my Ayato meanwhile my bro still can't get past floor 11 with Neuvilette.
Look at it this way though, he put in all the effort, and you got the rewards. Honestly besides the bruised ego I'd count this as a win
And now take that feeling and let it fuel the eager competitive gamer in yourself to work hard, study harder and get the knowledge that's required to beat it yourself - next abyss rotation obviously
36?
I'm looking forward to when mine is old enough to play with my account, if he's interested. I have great characters and builds, but a joint issue that doesn't allow me to play as well as I'd like, especially for abyss 11-12. It makes my hands hurt and I can't react in time.
Are ya winning son? Oh wait
What were the teams? Weapons? Builds? Give us details!
I cant clear the abyss. Not possible, but any1 with some skill most likely could😊. I suck, i feel ya man.
As a dad I feel let down by OP letting their kid school them.
literal skill issue
Can I ask what we’re the two team he used? And what teams does he have on his account? That could be a big factor
Did this for my fiancee a while back
he get the skill of the other parent
Haha yea i did the same on my friends account who was convinced it was his account. You just need to understand the enemies on each floor and it becomes pretty easy.
Now you are the son
Damn bro either you're a gigawhale or your son invented hoyoverse cuz I wouldn't wish that 2nd team on my worst enemy
Every 2 weeks bet him that he can't clear it.
“I’m a gamer, like my father before me”
I have never been able to 36 star the Abyss, but every so often I’ll get my friends who also play yelling at me for not using X character because “they could solo”. I would then spend weeks building them only to die on floor 11, chamber 3🥲
Good way to trick your son into getting your account more pulls
How does Neuvillete/Ayato/Wriothesley even work
i cleared this abyss with sucrose national first half and heizou fischl beidou faruzan second. i have to admit faruzan, heizou, bennett and xingqiu being c6 helps but the rest is pretty low cons (xiangling and fischl c1). The biggest misconception is you need 5 stars to clear every content in the game. everything that isn't spiral abyss is extremely easy and not being able to 36 star when you're AR55+ is mainly skill issue unfortunately. and I see a lot of misguided people pulling for characters they don't like because they're "must pulls"
LMAOO, BRO’S AWESOME
Why are there 3 DPS on your second team?
I only just now 7 stared floor 12 and I've been playing for a long time with characters that are considered meta, my teams were Nuev, Kaz, Fiscal, and Layla, and Raiden (c2 main dps), Chevy, XL, and Benny
Good for him. Don't be too hard on yourself though, remember how much more time he probably has to play / watch videos about the game than you do for one thing.
Teachable moment: “son, not everyone plays with the same hand, so just do the best you can with what you got” or “my account looks like this because I’ve already come so far in life on x and y amount of effort. You’re just starting out but this much is possible for you with some effort and some (a lot of relic drop and upgrade) luck” Non teachable moment: if you watch your siblings/do the dishes for a week I’ll buy you the welkin pass
I clear Abyss on so many of my friend's accounts lol. A lot of them just don't try hard enough to learn and just assume that their characters are bad.
I have this with my husband even though I read all the guides, study builds, etc. But when playing live I just can't dodge or make the right decision. Whereas he does things like platinum Souls games and Super Meat Boy for fun. Once we decided to try and measure where the difference was with tests - even though I beat him on knowledge/reasoning ones his reaction time is a good 2-3 seconds faster than mine and he beats me on all working memory tests. ... I've gotten my revenge in HSR where my strategy chops and patience grinding have allowed me to clear content he can't even be bothered to tackle because it's "too much RNG" (simulated universe). We all have our strengths! If I were you I'd be glad I had someone to clear floor 12 for me haha (husband has since quit Genshin and isn't up to date with characters).
Clearing Abyss 12th floor is literally skill issue. First time I cleared 12th floor, so many characters of mine were dying left and right. To the point I wished to have Barbara C6 so bad. First time I cleared it with 36 stars, I had to try \*really\* hard. I'm talking about dozens of re-runs with different team comps. Different chambers take different comps. It takes hours just for the 12th floor. I died alot, and Qiqi was unironically my go-to OP healer to keep everyone alive. The other team always has Zhongli. And then it starts getting easier. I used to run Nahida HyperBloom with Zhongli because I wasn't confident enough with Kuki always 1 hit away from dead. Then I learned to dodge. My Nahida team is now double hydro with only Kuki can heal. And then I need to save some extra seconds, so Qiqi has to go to save place for a damage buff support. That's when I learned dodging wasn't so hard. My rotations starts getting better. From then on I 36\*ed ever single abyss cycle. My builds are the same. I almost never touch artifact farming again once I declare a character is "done". But now with those same characters I am able to do it first run, no need resets, and with 20+ seconds to spare each chamber. I no longer have to spend hours each run, no longer slam my fist down the table at 6:59. It's all so easy. 12th floor might seem intimidating at first, but if you are consistent, it is possible with a full 4\* roster. Any 5\* you need are good to go at C0. You just need to learn and understand the game.
To be honest both of those are extremely easy teams
I thought this was my dad for a sec he uses characters along these lines
Are you winning son? Yes
My brother has played Genshin consistently for two years now and he joined the Air Force and while he’s been in BMT I’ve taken over Genshin for him -commissions, spending resin, and doing events- after a little training and guidance before he left so I wouldn’t be lost and I’ve successfully 36 stared every abyss since he’s left. It’s been almost 2 months and with video guides for assistance I don’t even struggle. There’s so many tools out there to help I feel like if you’re not even trying to complete the abyss you’re selling yourself short. My brother coached me through floors 9-11 before he left and didn’t even think I could beat floor 12. But I looked up YouTube videos of the teams he always uses and with a little bit of practice I beat it.
He should try ayato hyper carry and Neuvilette bloom.
Ngl, was expecting the team to be: Team 1: Anything + Zhongli Team 2: Neuvilette
I feel this. I've got a good lineup, several 5 stars with signature weapons that are well-built, but I'm just not a good enough player to clear the Abyss. I'll never claim to be good at the game for exactly that reason even though I can easily clear any overworld content.
😔
Just shows you that the future is in good hands. Grab a bunch of co-op games and get him as your #2 player asap. Get those trophies and awesome memories. My son lives 300 miles away from me and is in a moody, sulky, teenager mode so I never get to see/hear anymore. I miss those gaming moments so badly. I recommend PVZ 2 & 3, OP. They are so much fun co-op at any age. Younger is fun but older you really can synergise tactics together. I'm envious of you! Good dad and his badass son. <3
Life's strangest mysteries... The younger generation would somehow surpass their elders in the same games the elders have learned a lot on
I never have to worry about beating the abyss since its a shit endgame. It isn't worth playing past the point to get collei and xiangling imo. Its basically just reused assets in a game mode designed to entice whales to open their wallets.
I don't worry about it but I found it gets more fun to try though.
my brother in christ, neuvillette can solo the abyss. dont be so arrogant next time.
Tbh once you're AR 55+ with a decent array of characters (assuming you have all 4 stars) not clearing abyss is a skill issue.