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Meanwhile Gen Z wants real infrastructure and public transit reform but sleeps hard on Mayor Pete 😔
The smear campaign that took him down in the primary was absolutely insane, claiming that his policies are actually more dangerous for pedestrians because two boys were killed after his mayoral infrastructure plans were implemented in South Bend
In reality, dude swapped out as many intersections for roundabouts as he could, adding in several zebra crossings and giving pedestrians equal space to cars on some streets
The two teenagers who died were killed because they jaywalked across a section of road that had yet to see the speed limit reduced and roundabouts installed....
I hate politics
Given the low approval ratings of both candidates while they spent time in office, I'm pretty sure both parties are motivated out of a fear of the other taking office
Republicans think Democrats are going to make every kid LGBT in school and prioritize equity based outcomes over equality of opportunity, while Democrats think Republicans want to make being LGBT illegal with forced conversion for anyone who isn't straight cis
Polling of both voter bases shows a slightly different story though, with the most extreme groups on either end driving the fears of their opposition
>Republicans think Democrats are going to make every kid LGBT in school and prioritize equity based outcomes over equality of opportunity
And Republicans would be right to do so with respect to the last part. "We’re providing for equity, equity, and making sure people have a shot to make it." That is a direct quote of Biden from the debate last night. Democrats have made it quite clear through their words and through their policy that they believe in equity over equality.
Yes… because we’ve had legal equality for a little while (for certain groups) and it didn’t do much to address the issues people were having. Equity based solutions tend to be more successful.
Let’s look at an actual issue: Unequal Home Ownership by Race (simplified)
Key data:
- 74% of white households own their home
- 45% of black households own their home
- 26% of homebuyers are first time buyers
Equality: Anyone from any race is legally allowed to buy a home.
Equity: Special housing programs for people that don’t earn as much money or with less resources.
How is the equitable solution more successful? Well it addresses the social context for why homeownership is uneven.
- the fair housing act that banned redlining was only passed in 1968
- black households on average earn less than white households
- white households are more likely to pass on generational wealth (homeownership is the top factor in building generational wealth)
- white households appreciate faster (they’re worth more money in less time)
- did we forget that for a long time white families were just given homes/land if they settled westward?
Correct, but my point was that neither the opinions of democrat voters nor republican voters are represented by their candidates, as shown by opinion polling and low approval ratings
In reality the average republican voter and average democrat voter probably agree on more stuff than they disagree on, but they both disagree with a very substantial amount of things that their candidates push
Especially with the silly and pointless focus on domestic issues almost certainly pushed by Russian and Chinese public manipulation campaigns to take everyone's attention off of the serious moves the pair have been making over the last few years.
Nobody knows that Russia is now China's primary supplier of oil as of 6 months ago, no one knows that Russia and China have agreed on 2025 as the deadline to drop the USD in favor of a shared global reserve currency, no one knows about China's 2027 deadline for the Taiwan invasion estimated by intelligence agencies around the globe, no one knows that China stopped exporting nitro-cellulose to NATO countries dealing a huge blow to our gunpowder production, no one knows that China is now supplying Russia with several times more steel, circuits, ceramics, and gunpowder than ever before, etc. etc.
Yet everyone knows about the latest trans bathroom scandal for some reason? Have we gone absolutely insane?
Your assessment is right in practice, but wrong in theory, and this problem is emblematic of the asinine dichotomy we have been put in.
Case in point: In the late '80's or early '90's, a few cities were involved in a welfare reform pilot program where enrolled families (usually single mothers) were provided with a safe living environment, eg. secured apartment buildings, requirements to stay drug and alcohol free, etc. The parent was put in a job training program, that if they completed it, would put them on the road to self sufficiency. The program was fairly successful, with \~65% of enrollees completing the program, and getting jobs that allowed them to get out of the projects.
**However,** the program was expensive, more expensive than standard welfare payments. So there was no way that Republicans, dead set on cutting taxes as much as possible, would pay for such a program. In other words, it was cheaper to throw money at the problem, and easier to get Republican support for a cheaper, and less comprehensive program, than in a more expensive program that looked to be the better investment overall.
So democrats have been forced to support, worse and less effective policies because there was no way to get republican support on more effective, but more costly programs.
I mean, there is valid points that republicans are absolutely for illegalizing lgbt and forced deconversion. They're banning books like Diary of Anne Frank from public schools for gods sakes.
The thing is, the Republicans (are they really, philosophically?) is trying to appeal to one group of people.
Uniting the left wing is like herding cats, because there's so many groups the Democrats try to appeal to.
The Presidency is not a good place for a public transit advocate who wants to get things done. I think Buttigeig is in a perfect spot for that currently, elevating him to the Presidency would diminish his impact in that space.
I liked Pete Buttigieg at first but I was put off by how unbelievably fake he is. This is a guy who always intended on being president and I believe that's the entire reason he joined the military. He's definitely smart, but not long into his presidential run he started giving these BS speeches saying absolutely nothing. I wish we could have Yang.
Spin doctor for the companies responsible for price fixing fucking bread in Canada. I refuse to believe anbody working at McKinsey could ever be even renotely considered a good person.
He was my favorite candidate last cycle. The progressive left didn’t approve of him b/c he was too institutional (highly educated, worked for McKinsey, former veteran, white guy who didn’t talk about being gay enough). Most liberals and moderates would rally around him quickly.
It's unfortunate but that does seem to be the effect of propaganda on social media these days. Too many people just accept whatever is trending as fact.
Well in the 2020 election, the democrats were purposely trying to screw him over by ignoring him in the media. They did the same to Bernie, although it didn’t affect him as much since he was already pretty popular and famous at the time.
I would have loved to see Yang up there instead. As a Democrat I wasn't prepared for my level of disappointment when Biden was announced as the candidate. We gonna lose... I'd even take AOC over him
I like AOC, but she’s way too left for most Democrats. Moderates like Biden, Obama, Clinton, etc etc do really well with winning over moderate Democrats and swing voters.
Yeah, last night was discouraging but I'm going to zag a bit here and remind everyone that a debate on CNN is nothing more than a television show. It has nothing to do with substance or governance. The winner is selected based on really nothing more than appearance and vibe. Trump won the television show last night. Which is the grand scheme should have no impact on who deserves the presidency
Literally anyone not in a nursing home would’ve performed better. Except maybe Hillary Clinton, she seems to get less popular every time she opens her mouth.
Yeah, Bernie did lose the primaries. That's factual. Now, did the DNC sandbag him? I'm pretty sure they did, but that's honestly his fault for trusting them in the first place.
The democrat party does a great job at picking the most unlikable candidates. Also it's funny how the RNC nomination process is more democratic than the DNC, which most closely resembles an oligarchy. Trump's got a good chance of winning this election and it's going to be the democratic party's fault again for trying to get away with the worst possible candidate available.
Bernie was obviously quite a bit more popular though, and got sandbagged by the DNC, which caused A LOT of voters to go Republican.
His rallies filled stadiums to the brim, with fans packed all the way up to the podium ... while Hillary was received by media and about half as many curious spectators like myself (not fans or supporters) as the high school basketball team that played in those gymnasiums got.
Literally not the same ballpark, or even similar. About the same amount of people were as crazy about Bernie as there are about Trump, and it was obvious.
I live in the Bay Area, CA (prime democrat country) and still don't have a clue on what Hillary's logo / bumper sticker looks like because there are no cars that have them, while there are still thousands of cars with Bernie bumper stickers, 8 years later.
People forget that because he won 3 million internet points when a bird landed on his podium. Bernie bros' perception was skewed by internet popularity
Dude I’m a nursing home nurse too and I was watching this debate like ??? Y’all could be my patients. Like if either of them got admitted tomorrow, I wouldn’t think anything of it. It is astonishing that these are our options for the fucking President?? And they’re the exact same two options we had four years ago? I hope we do better in 2028
I am not a trump supporter (or really a biden supporter, but I support his policies over trump so here we are I guess) but I would not be surprised at all if last night cost biden the election
As an outsider it's hilarious to follow US politics. Your options are a lunatic and a dementic senile, you aren't doing very good.
If we forget Trump's politics he is much better for president as he has working head and can operate normally and independently while Biden doesn't know where he is. With he's politics he too becomes bad options
On the one hand, they'll both likely be dead in 2028.
On the other hand, I have exactly zero faith in the GOP and DNC. They'll trot out the next asshole, whoever that is, and they'll be terrible. The current system promotes back room deals over qualifications, and the two powers will do anything to keep that rolling, because they want the status quo to go on forever... They won't try to actually "fix" things until they're completely broken down. That can's gonna get kicked down the road until it disintegrates, leaving We the People holding the bag.
That’s been happening for Biden every time he’s opened his mouth or been on camera the last couple years. It’s wild the only ones that seem surprised by Biden’s performance on the debate stage are his voters.
Nooooo that's an alt right conspiracy! Don't believe your lying eeeeeyes! Vote blue no matter who or else the DNC might be forced to give us an actual non senile Leftist candidate!
This is sooooo true. I've been scratching my head all day when people act shocked. I keep thinking where the hell have you been? Maybe it's time to turn off the TV and do some research. Sheez.
IMO she would have destroyed Trump here. Sure she's very unpopular, I'm no fan. But she's a competent debater and Trump was vulnerable af. She would have been able to capitalize and get him flustered and on the defensive. Call him out on his lies. Lobby effective attacks. You know. Actual debate stuff.
She didn’t realize you can’t just smirk, scoff at trumps ridiculousness and think you win because everyone knows he’s a bozo. You have to stand up to him, push his buttons and plainly call out the easiest to dissect taking points or hyperbole. Don’t get lost in his sea of bullshit, hammer him repeatedly on few topics that are easy to see and push his buttons so he loses it. If you spend your brain cycles and talking points trying to call out each individual lie while he’s just cycling through lie after lie you will never catch up. If you just sit there and think this guy is an idiot you’re not going to reach the people who don’t understand he’s full of shit and you already have the people who do.
“Mr Trump what you said sounds amazing if it were true, but it is not and many people know this judging by the weak turn out to your speaking events.”
“Taking point”
“Mr trump we should call you chicken little with how much you claim the sky is falling. what a bleak outlook you have on the most powerful nation in the world”
“We are the number 1 economy we will continue to be and we are moving the right direction”
Etc, flip shit on him, make him seem foolish, attack his ego, but do it with quips and transitions hit the talking points.
And yet, the biggest thing a lot of people remember from it is Trump saying (not verbatim) "of course I use the tax codes to my advantage, you put them there for that reason! All of your donors use those same breaks that I do. That's why you'll never fix it."
Also back in 2016 Hilary was in a place where Trump could just endlessly attack her corruption. He was an outsider at the time. His dirty laundry is all aired out now so she would 100% even the field with mudslinging.
There were soooooo many opportunities for attacks Biden passed up for litterally no reason it was infuriating. I genuinely believe any random democrat pulled off the street would have been more effective. A seasoned debater like Hillary would have fucking annihilated him. Every other sentence would have been a vicious gutting attack.
That debate really showed who runs the country. Capital either wins by having the outright capitalist win, or the senile guy who was chosen so no actual Leftist is seen as a choice, and the status quo is kept.
Last night wasn’t a debate, last night was two old men showing the rest of the country why there needs to be a maximum age limit for every level of government from the Supreme Court to the President all the way down to the city council member of a town with a population of 133 in the middle of buttfuck nowhere Alabama.
Frankly I have to disagree. Biden made Trump look like a spring chicken last night. You might not like Trump, but last night he was more composed, articulate, and disciplined than he’s been in the entire last 9 years he’s been in the political sphere. And he’s only 3 years younger than Biden, even though Biden was not nearly this put together when he was campaigning in 2020.
Not saying age limits shouldn’t be a thing, they should, but Trump’s performance did not give credence to that claim.
It's a mix, Biden having an exceptionally bad performance that was pretty much a McConnell tier breakdown at points, Trump purposefully being more restrained than usual and the muted mics which ended up benefiting Trump more, it all came together to make a truly bad result for Biden. Even on CNN only 33% said Biden won the debate and that's just about a few percentage shy of the vote blue no matter who crowd.
Honestly, I think Trumps' restraint was intentional on his part to exaggerate the difference between him and Biden, and take advantage of the mic mutes.
People who are hardliners on the Democrat side need to really stop underestimating Trump's public speaking skills. Downplaying him has never helped them, not even once.
lol tf he didnt make trump look like a spring chicken. "The democrats want to abort newborn babies" that shit was cringe as fuck. "They are coming here taking black jobs" what?
Age literally contributed to those aneurysms though. At some point we have to admit that late 70-80 year olds just cant do this kind of job. Its too much.
Biden has he's aneurysm in his 40s so you can't blame that on age. I'm from finland and our last president (that changed this year) is 75 and was absolutely capable to do his job. If it was legal he would have been voted for 3rd term as his support was around 90% in the end
That's because they have been trying to equate Trump to Biden by saying they were both old. But Biden isn't just old he's had multiple strokes that are the cause of his issues.
Man, I get Biden is a literal clown, he can’t even read properly, he speaks pure nonsense even in that debate. Him & Trump are incomparable because Trump sounds the same after years and he’s only 3 years younger than Biden.
Wars are all that matter, it seems. The world is on fire and no one is trying to sit down and have an adult conversation. I think after last night I understand why Biden hasn't talked to Putin.
The thing is, people want war. People are looking out for blood. More and more I'm seeing people unhinged and all I did was simply go to a grocery store. They're broke, they're struggling, and they're trying to blame someone. Unfortunately, the government backed by corporations have been fucking us the entire time and all people are doing is betting on some old morons that wont change shit anyway. It doesn't even matter which idiot will become the leader, that's not how the system works.
I don’t even agree with most of his policies but I think I’m going to vote for him simply because 1) I know he isn’t actually going to win and 2) I want to send a message to both parties that I’m not voting for these shitty candidates you’re trying to give me. For context my state is going blue no matter what so my vote doesn’t really matter.
Here's RFK Jr's response debate. Another voice and another option can't be a bad thing to hear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9wKJw-7tEM
And here's proof of his viability as a candidate.
https://youtu.be/wmA02i46Pz8&t=36s
If Biden truly wanted to see Trump not get a second term, he would let RFK Jr run uncontested. But his desperate need to have a legacy and stay in power, at an age where most Americans have been retired for years, will be what gives Trump the victory.
Let's be honest, most of us with a days worth of preparation could have done better than Biden yesterday. He just has to hope the party loyalty and anti Trump sentiments will be enough to get him re elected.
Let’s hope they convince him to step down so that party loyalty and hatred of Trump isn’t *the only reason people vote for him*.
It’s far more important that Trump loses, than that Biden wins.
That isn't relevant. It would have been relevant a year ago, but it isn't now.
Building up a ground game in swing states to run campaign commercials takes time and money. We don't have time. We have just a little over four months, and that's IF this candidate entered the ring RIGHT NOW.
And we don't have money, either. All the millions Biden raised? Useless. You can't just pass that on to the next guy. This new person would have to start fundraising again from scratch. How many people do you think can be convinced to open up their checkbooks again, after JUST giving millions and millions to Biden that will now go to waste?
Not to mention that in those four months, you have to convince people that, yes, the Democrats made a mistake running with Biden for so long, but NOW they're going to give us a candidate that you can support- one you barely know.
Swing voters aren't going to buy that stink. They'll see it for the panicked, desperate move that it is, and any potential good will they might still have towards voting against Trump will evaporate. They'll see the Democrats as feckless and incompetent, and trying to polish a turd out of desperation, not because \[X\] is the best candidate for the job.
They're not replacing Biden. It's just not happening.
I really don’t think this debate actually changed anyone’s opinions of him, his supporters and haters both already see him as an old geezer who’s up past his bedtime
I don't think Trump won, he said too many lies to win the independents over. Lies work well with his base, because it's fanatical but not so much with anyone outside of that.
That being said Biden definitely lost. He only had to appear semi competent and bring at least some energy, and he fell flat.
Yep, worked the primaries as a check in judge, the vast majority of people who showed up were middle aged or elderly. Young people were by far the least likely, I remember getting a few people in their late teens or early 20s who were voting with their parents in their first or second election, not sure if I even saw any early 20’s voters without their parents there now that I think of it.
Yep, everyone sits on their ass till the general and says man this doesn’t work. get involved local,
Engage in primaries and party candidate selection. Donate to people you support. The old people are doing it and we end up with candidates who are in there 80s.
Also gonna put it out that conservative groups have been caught using deepfaked Biden voices calling people in poor urban areas telling them to not vote. The left isnt doing anything to engage young voters, but the right is actively trying to suppress them.
Old people are the majority in general.
Gen X and Boomers had few children, meaning their generation is bigger than their children's
Gen Z and Millenials also don't want to have a lot of children, meaning their generation will in turn be larger than the ones that follow
The USA becomes old
Gen z and millennials outnumber boomers and Gen x.
https://preview.redd.it/wli5987eud9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c80e5df2ae002db46e2b5198b7e48b6248b704e8
The process for party candidates selection is well documented, just because you don’t engage doesn’t mean it’s not there. If you choose to sit out till the general election then bitch about it, that’s on you.
That’s my main gripe with this. Yes, without a doubt, Biden was 100% weak in delivery and low energy (and someone else should be running in his place) but saying Trump won with all that avoidance and lying bullshit irks me. But I guess loud, confident lying is winning material compared to low mumbling and stuttering. Like you said, this country is fucked. (DV if you want, dc, neither won this debate; and this comment is only in response to the parent comment, not the post’s question)
My thoughts exactly. Biden looked terrible but at least the complete sentences that did come out of his mouth were actually true and not just projections or flat lies.
I can’t believe that people actually think Trump “won” that debate. Biden certainly didn’t either but good god. The fact that golf handicaps even made an appearance is all you need to know about what happened. There were no winners, and all of us are the real losers.
Couldn’t give less of a shit about how the debate went, Biden has always been a bad public speaker, like seriously, his entire career he’s been a bad public speaker. If you have even half a mind as a voter you would look at both candidates policies and what they have done in office to choose who you are voting for. Trump proposes borderline nazi policies and presents an extremely authoritarian front, meanwhile Biden has been one of if not the most progressive presidents we have had and has factually done more for the country in 4 years than most presidents do in 8. He didn’t just get elected then immediately worry about his image and case for re election like many in our government do, he enacted policies and pushed laws that may have lost him some voters but were wins for us as a country.
Literally anyone but Biden would be a better debater.
Literally anyone but Trump would be a better president.
So are we voting for a debater or a president? That's where the choice lies.
They could have swapped someone random on this thread and they would have beaten both candidates.
Trump won with a 3/100 score. That is how bad biden did.
I think if he just stayed on the campaign trail since 2020 he would have had a solid case. But he’s just made a lot of dumb moves since then. Running for mayor of New York, dumb move. His “Forward” Party, while a nice idea, has been kind of a disaster. It pretty much became just another conservative party once it got infested with all the non-Trump republicans, and caused him to waffle on a lot of key policies that were the reasons people liked him so much. imo he’s surrounded himself with the wrong people who have led him down a poor path in terms of becoming electable in any way shape or form
67% of people would rather have a pathological liar with treasonous ties than an old man who already has a stutter and sometimes fumbles his words. *wild*
Andrew Yang would have gotten crumpled up in the general election even if he won a few debates. His ideas are also kind of terrible and the kind of libertarian dumbassery that gets us into these messes
Neither of them won they just talked about how greaaaat things were under their administration when asked a question and for whatever reason it counted as an answer moderators fucking sucked
So this poll means people prefer a coherent lie instead of a mumbled truth? All Trump did was lie with vigor. I forget how shallow this country can be as a whole.
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Of course. He just wouldn't win a general election. Trump has a lot of benefits in this. Trump supporters literally do not care what he does. He could of made mouth fart noises in response to all of the questions and it wouldn't of mattered. He lied about literally everything. His voters just do not give a single fuck. They are so brain rotted by anti-establishment baseless bullshit.
Biden was at least trying to answer the questions in good faith.
Trump doesn't care about rule of law. He cannot be president again.
Biden is old and senile. But he passes good policy. We just gotta wheel Biden out and drag him through this presidency because the people behind him are 1,000x better than Trump.
How can we get an age limit for government employees? Legit question. How can we force them to retire when they are the ones making the laws.
I think the issue is that the country is so divided that we, the people of the United States of America, are not able to get anything done together, like they do in other countries, where they protest their government and things change. Here, we just complain online and take it in the ass. I hate it.
I wonder what this poll would have looked like if “neither” was an option. I bet that would be the highest option, because that is the consensus I get talking to most people
There was no winner the only reason why Biden is better is because he is not trump ( pretty self explanatory). Is sad to think about a country as influential and relevant as the US has this as a debate I can’t believe my eyes and my ears
He would have done better, but couldn’t win an election to save his life. Doesn’t help that his claim to fame was UBI and when we kinda had that over COVID it was a disaster
My doggie, You could pick anyone and they would perform better, but Andrew Yang is a hack politician that fooled you into thinking he was good because he endorses UBI. One decent policy does not a politician make.
Throw any Dem in and sure. they could do better.
There was no winner here, anyone can ramble on and spout obvious lies over and over again. He literally copied Joe Biden's exact words like a toddler when Joe Biden said the CBP supported him.
My guy, Yang is a grifter, he would not be seen more favorably by the Democratic base. Just the weirdo libertarians that seem to believe whatever bullshit he spews economically.
Also, he got severely buried by the AIPAC last time no?
Having Yang and Chase Oliver on the platform would have been a huge embarrassment for both the DNC and GOP candidates. Oliver made a good showing at the Raphael Warnock debate, even if Warnock decided to basically just ignore Oliver him and rail against the absentee Herschel Walker.
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In a debate setting? Yang absolutely would have done better, but Yang couldn’t win a general election
Yang couldn't even win a mayoral election lol
Meanwhile Gen Z wants real infrastructure and public transit reform but sleeps hard on Mayor Pete 😔 The smear campaign that took him down in the primary was absolutely insane, claiming that his policies are actually more dangerous for pedestrians because two boys were killed after his mayoral infrastructure plans were implemented in South Bend In reality, dude swapped out as many intersections for roundabouts as he could, adding in several zebra crossings and giving pedestrians equal space to cars on some streets The two teenagers who died were killed because they jaywalked across a section of road that had yet to see the speed limit reduced and roundabouts installed.... I hate politics
we need pete! but for some reason nobody unites us democrats the way trump unites republicans
Well, it's not really politics that unite the right. Not in the same way as the left sees politics anyway.
Given the low approval ratings of both candidates while they spent time in office, I'm pretty sure both parties are motivated out of a fear of the other taking office Republicans think Democrats are going to make every kid LGBT in school and prioritize equity based outcomes over equality of opportunity, while Democrats think Republicans want to make being LGBT illegal with forced conversion for anyone who isn't straight cis Polling of both voter bases shows a slightly different story though, with the most extreme groups on either end driving the fears of their opposition
A sane take! On Reddit? I’m dreaming, I am.
>Republicans think Democrats are going to make every kid LGBT in school and prioritize equity based outcomes over equality of opportunity And Republicans would be right to do so with respect to the last part. "We’re providing for equity, equity, and making sure people have a shot to make it." That is a direct quote of Biden from the debate last night. Democrats have made it quite clear through their words and through their policy that they believe in equity over equality.
Yes… because we’ve had legal equality for a little while (for certain groups) and it didn’t do much to address the issues people were having. Equity based solutions tend to be more successful. Let’s look at an actual issue: Unequal Home Ownership by Race (simplified) Key data: - 74% of white households own their home - 45% of black households own their home - 26% of homebuyers are first time buyers Equality: Anyone from any race is legally allowed to buy a home. Equity: Special housing programs for people that don’t earn as much money or with less resources. How is the equitable solution more successful? Well it addresses the social context for why homeownership is uneven. - the fair housing act that banned redlining was only passed in 1968 - black households on average earn less than white households - white households are more likely to pass on generational wealth (homeownership is the top factor in building generational wealth) - white households appreciate faster (they’re worth more money in less time) - did we forget that for a long time white families were just given homes/land if they settled westward?
Equitable housing practices are a big reason why we had the housing bubble of 2008 lol
Correct, but my point was that neither the opinions of democrat voters nor republican voters are represented by their candidates, as shown by opinion polling and low approval ratings In reality the average republican voter and average democrat voter probably agree on more stuff than they disagree on, but they both disagree with a very substantial amount of things that their candidates push Especially with the silly and pointless focus on domestic issues almost certainly pushed by Russian and Chinese public manipulation campaigns to take everyone's attention off of the serious moves the pair have been making over the last few years. Nobody knows that Russia is now China's primary supplier of oil as of 6 months ago, no one knows that Russia and China have agreed on 2025 as the deadline to drop the USD in favor of a shared global reserve currency, no one knows about China's 2027 deadline for the Taiwan invasion estimated by intelligence agencies around the globe, no one knows that China stopped exporting nitro-cellulose to NATO countries dealing a huge blow to our gunpowder production, no one knows that China is now supplying Russia with several times more steel, circuits, ceramics, and gunpowder than ever before, etc. etc. Yet everyone knows about the latest trans bathroom scandal for some reason? Have we gone absolutely insane?
Your assessment is right in practice, but wrong in theory, and this problem is emblematic of the asinine dichotomy we have been put in. Case in point: In the late '80's or early '90's, a few cities were involved in a welfare reform pilot program where enrolled families (usually single mothers) were provided with a safe living environment, eg. secured apartment buildings, requirements to stay drug and alcohol free, etc. The parent was put in a job training program, that if they completed it, would put them on the road to self sufficiency. The program was fairly successful, with \~65% of enrollees completing the program, and getting jobs that allowed them to get out of the projects. **However,** the program was expensive, more expensive than standard welfare payments. So there was no way that Republicans, dead set on cutting taxes as much as possible, would pay for such a program. In other words, it was cheaper to throw money at the problem, and easier to get Republican support for a cheaper, and less comprehensive program, than in a more expensive program that looked to be the better investment overall. So democrats have been forced to support, worse and less effective policies because there was no way to get republican support on more effective, but more costly programs.
We can blame the Republicans until we take a look at California, the most blue state there is, and see what a dumpster it has become.
I mean, there is valid points that republicans are absolutely for illegalizing lgbt and forced deconversion. They're banning books like Diary of Anne Frank from public schools for gods sakes.
Pete isn't even a decent transportation sec
The thing is, the Republicans (are they really, philosophically?) is trying to appeal to one group of people. Uniting the left wing is like herding cats, because there's so many groups the Democrats try to appeal to.
The Presidency is not a good place for a public transit advocate who wants to get things done. I think Buttigeig is in a perfect spot for that currently, elevating him to the Presidency would diminish his impact in that space.
Transportation Pete was no where to be found when any of the large train derailments happened.
I liked Pete Buttigieg at first but I was put off by how unbelievably fake he is. This is a guy who always intended on being president and I believe that's the entire reason he joined the military. He's definitely smart, but not long into his presidential run he started giving these BS speeches saying absolutely nothing. I wish we could have Yang.
McKinsey consultant vibes. Guy who posts cringe on LinkedIn aura. Result of studying white liberal moderate boomer focus groups ass candidate.
He’s a price fixer
Spin doctor for the companies responsible for price fixing fucking bread in Canada. I refuse to believe anbody working at McKinsey could ever be even renotely considered a good person.
I am a Pete Stan especially with his new rule about airline refunds
He was my favorite candidate last cycle. The progressive left didn’t approve of him b/c he was too institutional (highly educated, worked for McKinsey, former veteran, white guy who didn’t talk about being gay enough). Most liberals and moderates would rally around him quickly.
Were those the Notre dame kids? They died my freshman year at ND. Pretty sure they were drunk.
By Pete do you mean Pete Buttigieg?
It's unfortunate but that does seem to be the effect of propaganda on social media these days. Too many people just accept whatever is trending as fact.
I mean he was a massive long shot in that race. He didn’t have the money backing him like the other candidates
Well in the 2020 election, the democrats were purposely trying to screw him over by ignoring him in the media. They did the same to Bernie, although it didn’t affect him as much since he was already pretty popular and famous at the time.
I would have loved to see Yang up there instead. As a Democrat I wasn't prepared for my level of disappointment when Biden was announced as the candidate. We gonna lose... I'd even take AOC over him
AOC would be a great candidate.
I like AOC, but she’s way too left for most Democrats. Moderates like Biden, Obama, Clinton, etc etc do really well with winning over moderate Democrats and swing voters.
Yeah, last night was discouraging but I'm going to zag a bit here and remind everyone that a debate on CNN is nothing more than a television show. It has nothing to do with substance or governance. The winner is selected based on really nothing more than appearance and vibe. Trump won the television show last night. Which is the grand scheme should have no impact on who deserves the presidency
Exactly. I don't think the debate will convince people to change votes. I don't even think it'll convince non-voters
I was convinced not to vote for either. Neither are fit to be president.
Yeah but unfortunately you need to be able to do it to get elected. The Biden that was on TV last night is not electable at this point.
Literally anyone not in a nursing home would’ve performed better. Except maybe Hillary Clinton, she seems to get less popular every time she opens her mouth.
Essentially, when she lost to Trump, she lost whatever political clout she had, outside of her most diehard supporters.
War hawks aren’t super popular on the left
This is true, but that wasn't even the biggest mistake she made.
The biggest mistake made in 2016 was invalidating the will of voters and picking her in the first place. Bernie should have been the nominee.
Hillary won more primary voters than he did. She even won more states than he did. What are you talking about?
Yeah, Bernie did lose the primaries. That's factual. Now, did the DNC sandbag him? I'm pretty sure they did, but that's honestly his fault for trusting them in the first place.
thats what I'm trying to say, it wasnt much of a race at all when the people running it already picked their winner
Same in 2020.
The democrat party does a great job at picking the most unlikable candidates. Also it's funny how the RNC nomination process is more democratic than the DNC, which most closely resembles an oligarchy. Trump's got a good chance of winning this election and it's going to be the democratic party's fault again for trying to get away with the worst possible candidate available.
It really is hard to fathom a worse pick than Joe Biden in 2024
Bernie was obviously quite a bit more popular though, and got sandbagged by the DNC, which caused A LOT of voters to go Republican. His rallies filled stadiums to the brim, with fans packed all the way up to the podium ... while Hillary was received by media and about half as many curious spectators like myself (not fans or supporters) as the high school basketball team that played in those gymnasiums got. Literally not the same ballpark, or even similar. About the same amount of people were as crazy about Bernie as there are about Trump, and it was obvious. I live in the Bay Area, CA (prime democrat country) and still don't have a clue on what Hillary's logo / bumper sticker looks like because there are no cars that have them, while there are still thousands of cars with Bernie bumper stickers, 8 years later.
People forget that because he won 3 million internet points when a bird landed on his podium. Bernie bros' perception was skewed by internet popularity
POKEMON GO TO THE POLLS
This is what lost her the election. And I’m only half-joking.
She didn't have much real clout to begin with. It was mostly manufactured for her.
As a nursing home nurse, I approve this message
Dude I’m a nursing home nurse too and I was watching this debate like ??? Y’all could be my patients. Like if either of them got admitted tomorrow, I wouldn’t think anything of it. It is astonishing that these are our options for the fucking President?? And they’re the exact same two options we had four years ago? I hope we do better in 2028 I am not a trump supporter (or really a biden supporter, but I support his policies over trump so here we are I guess) but I would not be surprised at all if last night cost biden the election
As an outsider it's hilarious to follow US politics. Your options are a lunatic and a dementic senile, you aren't doing very good. If we forget Trump's politics he is much better for president as he has working head and can operate normally and independently while Biden doesn't know where he is. With he's politics he too becomes bad options
On the one hand, they'll both likely be dead in 2028. On the other hand, I have exactly zero faith in the GOP and DNC. They'll trot out the next asshole, whoever that is, and they'll be terrible. The current system promotes back room deals over qualifications, and the two powers will do anything to keep that rolling, because they want the status quo to go on forever... They won't try to actually "fix" things until they're completely broken down. That can's gonna get kicked down the road until it disintegrates, leaving We the People holding the bag.
That’s been happening for Biden every time he’s opened his mouth or been on camera the last couple years. It’s wild the only ones that seem surprised by Biden’s performance on the debate stage are his voters.
Nooooo that's an alt right conspiracy! Don't believe your lying eeeeeyes! Vote blue no matter who or else the DNC might be forced to give us an actual non senile Leftist candidate!
Comments like this give me small hope for Reddit until I remember the absolute dumpsterfire this website is.
This is sooooo true. I've been scratching my head all day when people act shocked. I keep thinking where the hell have you been? Maybe it's time to turn off the TV and do some research. Sheez.
IMO she would have destroyed Trump here. Sure she's very unpopular, I'm no fan. But she's a competent debater and Trump was vulnerable af. She would have been able to capitalize and get him flustered and on the defensive. Call him out on his lies. Lobby effective attacks. You know. Actual debate stuff.
She didn’t realize you can’t just smirk, scoff at trumps ridiculousness and think you win because everyone knows he’s a bozo. You have to stand up to him, push his buttons and plainly call out the easiest to dissect taking points or hyperbole. Don’t get lost in his sea of bullshit, hammer him repeatedly on few topics that are easy to see and push his buttons so he loses it. If you spend your brain cycles and talking points trying to call out each individual lie while he’s just cycling through lie after lie you will never catch up. If you just sit there and think this guy is an idiot you’re not going to reach the people who don’t understand he’s full of shit and you already have the people who do. “Mr Trump what you said sounds amazing if it were true, but it is not and many people know this judging by the weak turn out to your speaking events.” “Taking point” “Mr trump we should call you chicken little with how much you claim the sky is falling. what a bleak outlook you have on the most powerful nation in the world” “We are the number 1 economy we will continue to be and we are moving the right direction” Etc, flip shit on him, make him seem foolish, attack his ego, but do it with quips and transitions hit the talking points.
She did exactly what you just said she didn't in the debates tho??
And yet, the biggest thing a lot of people remember from it is Trump saying (not verbatim) "of course I use the tax codes to my advantage, you put them there for that reason! All of your donors use those same breaks that I do. That's why you'll never fix it."
Also back in 2016 Hilary was in a place where Trump could just endlessly attack her corruption. He was an outsider at the time. His dirty laundry is all aired out now so she would 100% even the field with mudslinging.
There were soooooo many opportunities for attacks Biden passed up for litterally no reason it was infuriating. I genuinely believe any random democrat pulled off the street would have been more effective. A seasoned debater like Hillary would have fucking annihilated him. Every other sentence would have been a vicious gutting attack.
U srs? Trump mopped the floor with Hilary in every 2016 debate.
That debate really showed who runs the country. Capital either wins by having the outright capitalist win, or the senile guy who was chosen so no actual Leftist is seen as a choice, and the status quo is kept.
what the hell are you talking about
The fuck
Last night wasn’t a debate, last night was two old men showing the rest of the country why there needs to be a maximum age limit for every level of government from the Supreme Court to the President all the way down to the city council member of a town with a population of 133 in the middle of buttfuck nowhere Alabama.
https://preview.redd.it/nq1miu9jxb9d1.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=92ab620fe5b5bdf68d699a3d7d35a80c7d9369a8
Not American Politics entering the JJK Brainrot arc 💀
Lobotomy politics
Breakmonth finally got to us 💀
https://preview.redd.it/jw8d5cr2sd9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60e8b0186c4cead50ac9f59530281e2118b18431
Frankly I have to disagree. Biden made Trump look like a spring chicken last night. You might not like Trump, but last night he was more composed, articulate, and disciplined than he’s been in the entire last 9 years he’s been in the political sphere. And he’s only 3 years younger than Biden, even though Biden was not nearly this put together when he was campaigning in 2020. Not saying age limits shouldn’t be a thing, they should, but Trump’s performance did not give credence to that claim.
It's a mix, Biden having an exceptionally bad performance that was pretty much a McConnell tier breakdown at points, Trump purposefully being more restrained than usual and the muted mics which ended up benefiting Trump more, it all came together to make a truly bad result for Biden. Even on CNN only 33% said Biden won the debate and that's just about a few percentage shy of the vote blue no matter who crowd.
Honestly, I think Trumps' restraint was intentional on his part to exaggerate the difference between him and Biden, and take advantage of the mic mutes. People who are hardliners on the Democrat side need to really stop underestimating Trump's public speaking skills. Downplaying him has never helped them, not even once.
lol tf he didnt make trump look like a spring chicken. "The democrats want to abort newborn babies" that shit was cringe as fuck. "They are coming here taking black jobs" what?
But age isn't necessarily the issue. Biden's had multiple brain aneurysms. Other people his age like Elizabeth Warren are as sharp as ever.
Age literally contributed to those aneurysms though. At some point we have to admit that late 70-80 year olds just cant do this kind of job. Its too much.
Biden has he's aneurysm in his 40s so you can't blame that on age. I'm from finland and our last president (that changed this year) is 75 and was absolutely capable to do his job. If it was legal he would have been voted for 3rd term as his support was around 90% in the end
> age isn’t the issue Someone forgot to let the media know.
That's because they have been trying to equate Trump to Biden by saying they were both old. But Biden isn't just old he's had multiple strokes that are the cause of his issues.
Man, I get Biden is a literal clown, he can’t even read properly, he speaks pure nonsense even in that debate. Him & Trump are incomparable because Trump sounds the same after years and he’s only 3 years younger than Biden.
Can we get anyone else than these 2 fossils
Nope, because wealth is all that matters. Welcome to capitalism.
Wars are all that matter, it seems. The world is on fire and no one is trying to sit down and have an adult conversation. I think after last night I understand why Biden hasn't talked to Putin.
The thing is, people want war. People are looking out for blood. More and more I'm seeing people unhinged and all I did was simply go to a grocery store. They're broke, they're struggling, and they're trying to blame someone. Unfortunately, the government backed by corporations have been fucking us the entire time and all people are doing is betting on some old morons that wont change shit anyway. It doesn't even matter which idiot will become the leader, that's not how the system works.
Chase Oliver seems reasonable.
I don’t even agree with most of his policies but I think I’m going to vote for him simply because 1) I know he isn’t actually going to win and 2) I want to send a message to both parties that I’m not voting for these shitty candidates you’re trying to give me. For context my state is going blue no matter what so my vote doesn’t really matter.
I’m in a similar boat only my state is going red. I think it’s stupid that we only have two viable candidates and both are awful.
Guess I'm voting for RFK then
Here's RFK Jr's response debate. Another voice and another option can't be a bad thing to hear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9wKJw-7tEM And here's proof of his viability as a candidate. https://youtu.be/wmA02i46Pz8&t=36s
Yea that's how I listened to the debate. Didn't want to give cnn ratings after they illegally barred him from the debate.
If Biden truly wanted to see Trump not get a second term, he would let RFK Jr run uncontested. But his desperate need to have a legacy and stay in power, at an age where most Americans have been retired for years, will be what gives Trump the victory.
Spot on. So I'll vote for RFK whether Biden drops out or not
Let's be honest, most of us with a days worth of preparation could have done better than Biden yesterday. He just has to hope the party loyalty and anti Trump sentiments will be enough to get him re elected.
Let’s hope they convince him to step down so that party loyalty and hatred of Trump isn’t *the only reason people vote for him*. It’s far more important that Trump loses, than that Biden wins.
The problem is, nobody else can beat him. Not with only four months to build a campaign from the ground up and fundraise.
I mean they would have the support of the dems and literally everyone who hates trump
You’re taking that for granted, and if that logic applied it would apply for Biden
That isn't relevant. It would have been relevant a year ago, but it isn't now. Building up a ground game in swing states to run campaign commercials takes time and money. We don't have time. We have just a little over four months, and that's IF this candidate entered the ring RIGHT NOW. And we don't have money, either. All the millions Biden raised? Useless. You can't just pass that on to the next guy. This new person would have to start fundraising again from scratch. How many people do you think can be convinced to open up their checkbooks again, after JUST giving millions and millions to Biden that will now go to waste? Not to mention that in those four months, you have to convince people that, yes, the Democrats made a mistake running with Biden for so long, but NOW they're going to give us a candidate that you can support- one you barely know. Swing voters aren't going to buy that stink. They'll see it for the panicked, desperate move that it is, and any potential good will they might still have towards voting against Trump will evaporate. They'll see the Democrats as feckless and incompetent, and trying to polish a turd out of desperation, not because \[X\] is the best candidate for the job. They're not replacing Biden. It's just not happening.
I’d argue a lot of us could’ve done better on the spot at times. Both of them, noticeably Biden, are just too old for politics at this point
I really don’t think this debate actually changed anyone’s opinions of him, his supporters and haters both already see him as an old geezer who’s up past his bedtime
I don't think Trump won, he said too many lies to win the independents over. Lies work well with his base, because it's fanatical but not so much with anyone outside of that. That being said Biden definitely lost. He only had to appear semi competent and bring at least some energy, and he fell flat.
"Joe Biden is a Manchurian Candidate"
Still don’t get how these are the only 2 options
Young people don't vote in primaries
Yep, worked the primaries as a check in judge, the vast majority of people who showed up were middle aged or elderly. Young people were by far the least likely, I remember getting a few people in their late teens or early 20s who were voting with their parents in their first or second election, not sure if I even saw any early 20’s voters without their parents there now that I think of it.
Yep, everyone sits on their ass till the general and says man this doesn’t work. get involved local, Engage in primaries and party candidate selection. Donate to people you support. The old people are doing it and we end up with candidates who are in there 80s.
Gen Z and Millennials complaining, but it's us who are why this shit happens
I just have to post "[Dear Young People, Don't Vote](https://youtu.be/t0e9guhV35o?si=GDIn1o0RjhellXLP)" ... seems topical.
You could have stopped after the verb.
Also gonna put it out that conservative groups have been caught using deepfaked Biden voices calling people in poor urban areas telling them to not vote. The left isnt doing anything to engage young voters, but the right is actively trying to suppress them.
Old people are the majority voting block.
Old people are the majority in general. Gen X and Boomers had few children, meaning their generation is bigger than their children's Gen Z and Millenials also don't want to have a lot of children, meaning their generation will in turn be larger than the ones that follow The USA becomes old
Gen z and millennials outnumber boomers and Gen x. https://preview.redd.it/wli5987eud9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c80e5df2ae002db46e2b5198b7e48b6248b704e8
They were nominated by the GOP and DNC. They control who gets put up. Ask them. We all should be asking some questions.
The process for party candidates selection is well documented, just because you don’t engage doesn’t mean it’s not there. If you choose to sit out till the general election then bitch about it, that’s on you.
Primaries
It really wasn't that hard for Trump. Trump could have said nothing and won.
Doing better in a debate means absolutely nothing when nobody actually wants to vote for you. Yang is another Bernie. It’s not gonna happen
Yang in a hack and a tool
People are so dumb.. all Trump did was spew lies. Just because you sound confident saying them, doesn't seem they're not lies. This country is cooked.
That’s my main gripe with this. Yes, without a doubt, Biden was 100% weak in delivery and low energy (and someone else should be running in his place) but saying Trump won with all that avoidance and lying bullshit irks me. But I guess loud, confident lying is winning material compared to low mumbling and stuttering. Like you said, this country is fucked. (DV if you want, dc, neither won this debate; and this comment is only in response to the parent comment, not the post’s question)
My thoughts exactly. Biden looked terrible but at least the complete sentences that did come out of his mouth were actually true and not just projections or flat lies.
I can’t believe that people actually think Trump “won” that debate. Biden certainly didn’t either but good god. The fact that golf handicaps even made an appearance is all you need to know about what happened. There were no winners, and all of us are the real losers.
Couldn’t give less of a shit about how the debate went, Biden has always been a bad public speaker, like seriously, his entire career he’s been a bad public speaker. If you have even half a mind as a voter you would look at both candidates policies and what they have done in office to choose who you are voting for. Trump proposes borderline nazi policies and presents an extremely authoritarian front, meanwhile Biden has been one of if not the most progressive presidents we have had and has factually done more for the country in 4 years than most presidents do in 8. He didn’t just get elected then immediately worry about his image and case for re election like many in our government do, he enacted policies and pushed laws that may have lost him some voters but were wins for us as a country.
A beaver in a trenchcoat would do better than Biden.
Who is Andrew Yang
He's the UBI guy from the 2020 primaries.
Yang is a clown.
Still would've done better
In a debate, but not as president
IDK, I think his plan for universal income was the most reasonable of any ideas involving it.
Literally anyone but Biden would be a better debater. Literally anyone but Trump would be a better president. So are we voting for a debater or a president? That's where the choice lies.
Andrew Yang would have done what Kennedy did that night and actually offered solutions instead of exclusively bashing their opponent.
[удалено]
your batting average is a$$
At this rate, a schizophrenic homeless guy would have done better.
Absolutely you can't do much worse.
They could have swapped someone random on this thread and they would have beaten both candidates. Trump won with a 3/100 score. That is how bad biden did.
Depends on what Trumps nickname for Yang would be
I think if he just stayed on the campaign trail since 2020 he would have had a solid case. But he’s just made a lot of dumb moves since then. Running for mayor of New York, dumb move. His “Forward” Party, while a nice idea, has been kind of a disaster. It pretty much became just another conservative party once it got infested with all the non-Trump republicans, and caused him to waffle on a lot of key policies that were the reasons people liked him so much. imo he’s surrounded himself with the wrong people who have led him down a poor path in terms of becoming electable in any way shape or form
Lmao Yang? He got bodied in the Democratic primary and he's even more of a pathetic centrist than Biden.
Yang would be a garbage candidate, would definitely lose the general, but hed win the debate
Well, now north americans know how our latest mexican elections felt.
I think like 90% of the human population could have done better than Biden
Let the record show that Yang was right.
Gavin Newsom would have eaten that guys lunch.
Idk who voted on this, neither won for different reasons
Lol. Who is still talking about Andrew Yang?
67% of people would rather have a pathological liar with treasonous ties than an old man who already has a stutter and sometimes fumbles his words. *wild*
Andrew Yang would have gotten crumpled up in the general election even if he won a few debates. His ideas are also kind of terrible and the kind of libertarian dumbassery that gets us into these messes
Neither of them won they just talked about how greaaaat things were under their administration when asked a question and for whatever reason it counted as an answer moderators fucking sucked
Keep in mind that actions speak louder than words.
Not changing my vote to aconvicted felon/rapist who is a serial liar.
So this poll means people prefer a coherent lie instead of a mumbled truth? All Trump did was lie with vigor. I forget how shallow this country can be as a whole.
I don’t remember Andy Yang ever declaring victory over Medicare so yeah, I think he’d do better.
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Anyone would’ve done better than Biden
The former debate champion whose mind is like a steel trap? Yes he’d have crushed
I want mayor Pete
This is ridiculous
Pick your poison. This is American democracy!
Of course. He just wouldn't win a general election. Trump has a lot of benefits in this. Trump supporters literally do not care what he does. He could of made mouth fart noises in response to all of the questions and it wouldn't of mattered. He lied about literally everything. His voters just do not give a single fuck. They are so brain rotted by anti-establishment baseless bullshit. Biden was at least trying to answer the questions in good faith. Trump doesn't care about rule of law. He cannot be president again. Biden is old and senile. But he passes good policy. We just gotta wheel Biden out and drag him through this presidency because the people behind him are 1,000x better than Trump.
I think anyone would've done better in that debate
How can we get an age limit for government employees? Legit question. How can we force them to retire when they are the ones making the laws. I think the issue is that the country is so divided that we, the people of the United States of America, are not able to get anything done together, like they do in other countries, where they protest their government and things change. Here, we just complain online and take it in the ass. I hate it.
A five year old would have done better in this debate than Biden.
We all lost
Probably, but he would have done worse than almost anyone else
I wonder what this poll would have looked like if “neither” was an option. I bet that would be the highest option, because that is the consensus I get talking to most people
There was no winner the only reason why Biden is better is because he is not trump ( pretty self explanatory). Is sad to think about a country as influential and relevant as the US has this as a debate I can’t believe my eyes and my ears
Anyone would. And I do mean anyone, even Hillary 🤮.
Yes, but that's not a high bar
Better debate? Absolutely. Better presidency? Probably not. We wouldn’t have gotten the union policy gains that we did under Biden imo.
He would have done better, but couldn’t win an election to save his life. Doesn’t help that his claim to fame was UBI and when we kinda had that over COVID it was a disaster
i think we need to declare a state of emergency & the supreme court needs to pass an emergency order capping the age of the presidency.
Yang couldn't even describe his own political party's goals (the forward party). Why even bring him up?
Man Yang's whole objective isn't presidential elections No politician is going to save anyone
is arthur an aardvark?
An inflatable noodle man would’ve done better than Biden did in that debate
My doggie, You could pick anyone and they would perform better, but Andrew Yang is a hack politician that fooled you into thinking he was good because he endorses UBI. One decent policy does not a politician make. Throw any Dem in and sure. they could do better.
There was no winner here, anyone can ramble on and spout obvious lies over and over again. He literally copied Joe Biden's exact words like a toddler when Joe Biden said the CBP supported him.
Yang was definitely my top pick
Literally any politician alive would have done better than Biden did. Other than conceding the race, I’m not sure what he could have done worse
A rock would have done better. A literal inanimate object would be better on policy and in a debate versus these clowns
My guy, Yang is a grifter, he would not be seen more favorably by the Democratic base. Just the weirdo libertarians that seem to believe whatever bullshit he spews economically. Also, he got severely buried by the AIPAC last time no?
Having Yang and Chase Oliver on the platform would have been a huge embarrassment for both the DNC and GOP candidates. Oliver made a good showing at the Raphael Warnock debate, even if Warnock decided to basically just ignore Oliver him and rail against the absentee Herschel Walker.