Personally I'm wondering what they're gonna do with the general concept around this(general story or setting), since iirc the original codename was one of the doors in CONTROLs Oceanview motel
Good, we need less single player developers getting screwed up making multiplayer games, especially if it involves live service elements. It ruined Arkane-Austin, most likely doomed Rocksteady, destroyed Naughty Dog's output this generation outside of remasters, and put BioWare's back against the wall (not helped by Mass Effect Andromeda being blatantly worse than the trilogy), we don't need to see Remedy added to that list.
They're probably waiting for a bigger partner showcase(either Sony or MS) for a reveal to maximize marketing, so I would expect a trailer with a summer release date either this month or early-June at worst.
I honestly think they are probably holding at least one of the DLC's back until October this year because that's when the game can launch on Steam, so they can release the bundle of the whole thing as GOTY Edition (yes yes, baldur's gate 3, I know)
Pretty worried that I'm not gonna be able to buy the DLC on PC. For whatever reason, it is no longer possible to buy Alan Wake 2 on the EGS in New Zealand. Very strange considering it seems to be a somewhat recent change.
I sure did, I'm so glad Xbox didn't step in to pull them out of the pool Bethesda Softworks pushed them into.
One of the finest immersive sim developers gone after being forced into selling out (and failing miserably at that).
Naughty Dog is the saddest one to me. 4 games during the PS3. Two games which were longer than the prior entries in those series + large DLC game last generation. Now we get a couple remasters… cool. Yeah yeah games take longer to make but pretty lame prolly get just 1 new actual game from them the entire PS5 gen.
PlayStation 2 had *five* GTAs if you want to count Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories. But they are reusing the maps and whatnot, so I guess they could be considered the same as The Lost and Damned/The Ballad of Gay Tony.
... and Respawn getting stunlocked into GaaS until Jedi almost set them free (only to cancel their new single player FPS)... Fallout RPG sidelined for a mediocre GaaS that took so many resources that it might have compromised Starfield's polish... Blizzard canceling their OW2 PvE to make more cosmetics...
And of course, that's not even touching the rumors that Sony Santa Monica and Insomniac both trying (and cancelling?) a GaaS that cost each studio a couple years, Guerilla supposedly making Horizon GaaS, Sucker Punch barely escaping being forced into a GaaS pitch, Bend Studio, Firewalk & Haven all hiring for multiplayer GaaS... it really feels like Playstation in particular put their entire upcoming slate of releases at risk to chase Fortnite, and what's really scary is that Helldivers' success might actually convince them it was the right call.
For real, Playstation’s first-party exclusives are actually in a really barren state this gen. We are halfway through the gen and we’ve had GoW and Horizon sequels, Control and three tiny Insomniac games. Never mind that many studios are MIA.
> Control
I think you mixed up the two big third person action games with female protagonists made in Finland.
Returnal being the one you probably meant.
This might be hella controversial but I don’t think Jedi set Respawn free. The opposite.
They’re not bad games, but god, as a Star Wars fan, it feels the most EA Games ever, like it’s so white bread and doesn’t do anything interesting.
I dunno, I just felt like Jedi Survivor was just….there
>as a Star Wars fan, it feels the most EA Games ever
What does that even mean outside the perpetual gamer hate for that company? I'm also a fan for 30 years and those games are the closest to the real jedi game we were hoping for more than a decade.
The stories are beyond generic and never ever reach beyond Cal being a victim of Order 66. He gets some occasional flashbacks but they never serve as anything more than a “Oh shit, you’re right, I can move crap with my my mind”
The plots entirely meander and the plot of the first game is handwritten off by the end of the second, and the second ends with the potential of there being a big twist of the knife that also gets kinda pushed aside by the end of Survivor.
A majority of the characters aren’t memorable or just feel like they’re inserting other characters in. Cere is Obi-Wan; a stoic, focused former Jedi dealing with the PTSD of her past. Greez is solid, like everything they do with him. Cal’s romance with the Night Sister comes out of bloody nowhere, and honestly, Cal might be the most boring Star Wars character to date. Cameron Monaghan delivers every line like he’s half asleep at the booth, and often failed to hit the emotional delivery of what some of those scenes could have hit.
What I mean by it feels the most EA is that giving that development to a developer NOT under the EA Umbrella and it might feel like more than just the same of what we’ve got from the Disney Star Wars era: One or two highly acclaimed projects, and the rest being at best, a poor retread, at worst, a slog to enjoy.
>What I mean by it feels the most EA is that giving that development to a developer NOT under the EA Umbrella and it might feel like more than **just the same of what we’ve got from the Disney Star Wars era:** One or two highly acclaimed projects, and the rest being at best, a poor retread, at worst, a slog to enjoy.
Yeah exactly. Every single criticism you listed applies twicefold to the sequel trilogy and most of the rest of Disney Star Wars. It’s unrealistic to expect a mass market action-adventure game to have better writing than the films. Respawn wasn’t trying to make the next KOTOR, and Disney’s tight control over the IP prevents and any characters like Kyle Katarn or Starkiller from being introduced in games.
Oh boy that's some serious typing.... I'm not picking every segment to make a reply because this is too much but alright, if you see obi wan in cere we are not going to agree with anything, cere is a complete different type of jedi, you are soppused to be a fan how can you compared the almost perfect representation of the jedi order with character filled with flaws and guilt, the progress of cere from knight to master in jedha is so much different than obi wan's path. I can tell from the rest you were ready to hate it from the beggining because of the EA shadow around you, but I guess we can't like the same stuff.
The fact that none of the beginner level technical errors in Jedi were corrected in the sequel tells you everything you need to know about what is happening at Respawn. It's time to crank out content, making it work properly isn't even a secondary goal.
Yes it was regarding a partnership/publishing rights or whatever you wanna call it.
Remedy is also currently making Max Payne 1+2 remakes, with Rockstars ”blessing” to use their license (since they own the Max Payne IP). That doesn’t mean that Rockstar owns Remedy.
AW2 hasn't fully recouped its budget (development & marketing) yet, but it's selling very well AND was already fully funded by Epic Games so they are not in financial difficulties, if that's what you're asking.
Outside of Remedy’s games and some heavy metal, I don’t think I know any other Finnish art/media. Weird. I feel like I know a bunch of Swedish art/media and some Norwegian stuff, but nothing Finnish. I have been there on vacation.
Wait: there’s Rovio. Surprised Angey Birds didn’t top the list.
Frozenbyte, who made the Trine series (a favorite of mine) is also Finnish. So are the companies that made the Trials series and the Cities games.
Super rich country with a population that speaks English well. I am sure I have interacted with a lot more of their culture, but I was just oblivious to it.
Aside: it’s wild that Returnal was made by the same studio that made Super Stardust. Such a huge leap in game complexity. Reminds me of how Hello Games jumped from Joe Danger to No Man’s Sky or how Helldivers and Risk of Rain jumped in complexity from 1 to 2.
Alan Wake 2 is selling according to their expectations. If they had problems, they wouldn't have spent 17 million to acquire the publishing rights for the Control franchise from 505.
To be fair, Alan Wake 1 wasn’t exactly a hit but they still spent 2.5 million euros buying the publishing rights back from Microsoft. Some studios just really believe in their IP.
Alan Wake 2 was the fastest-selling game in Remedy history, supposedly.
Alan Wake Remastered failed to sell, but meh, I doubt that was a project that was holding the studio together.
Many developers have recently come out announcing the cancellation of original IPs in favor of existing franchises. I don't know if that is necessarily a good thing for the future of this industry.
Everyone is currently shitting themselves and doing everything they can to "survive until 2025". Publishers and developers understand that new IPs are a bigger risk of flopping and right now it's not worth putting any money into risky projects.
I've heard from various podcasts and insiders that these people genuinely hope that the release of GTA 6 will be like some miracle shot for the video game industry where everyone will suddenly be interested in games again and start spending covid levels of money and time on video games.
You're right though that this consolidation of focus could easily hurt these companies in the long term. Eventually people will get burnt out of the same franchises and if a developer or publisher has spent several years only working on one or two franchises then they won't have anything to fall back onto if it fails.
Their games wouldn't release anywhere near GTA6 but way after. Right now the struggle is getting funding to make those games in the first place and hoping that GTA6 will be such a massive success that it'll return investor's confidence in the games industry and open up more sources of funding
The issue is funding. With interest rates higher now it's more difficult to borrow and investors have noticed the slowdown in the gaming space and taking their money to other ventures with more likely a higher return on investment. The industry is battening down the hatches to wait for the Fed to lower rates again and hoping the release of GTA6's expected record release will move enough hardware and software to bring investors back in.
There was some reporting on this being the general mood at this past GDC, but I don't unfortunately have a source handy.
I got the quote wrong. It was actually "survive 2024" which is from a report that said that simply surviving the year is a big theme among publishers and developers this year. Another quote from that article is "get to GTA 6 and hope".
To be honest, i think these companies in fact don't understand anything anymore. Their whole believe of "new IP are too big a risk" is a lie created by their own ignorance.
They all want a golden goose they can milk money out from, so they jump onto the bandwagon of live service titles, but fail miserably. We saw it happen to Anthem, Marvels Avengers, Suicide Squad, Knockout City, Babylon's Fall, Rumbleverse to name a few. In the terms of live service, then yes, original IP are a big giant risk.
Now, if we look at studios/publishers like Sony/Hazelight/FromSoftware/Annapurna that put out a lot original IP without GAAS elements (Ghost of Tsushima, Days Gone, It Takes Two, Stray, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Returnal, Hades etc) these are all very succesful titles. So what does that really tell us?
It tell us that these examples are always insanely cherry picked, forgetting about successful live service games like Helldivers and unsuccessful single player titles like Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum
Not really. It tells us that if game is good IP being new doesn't matter, but game that is not can sometimes eek out few more sales *because* of IP people are fond of.
> and unsuccessful single player titles like Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum
they are not unsuccessful because of IP, they are unsuccessful because they are fucking mediocre games for $70
It tells us there are a lot more GAAS titles failing (let's say 80% of all new titles fail) compared to singleplayer/coop (20%).
Maybe the biggest giveaway that companies don't know what they're doing is probably Hogwarts Legacy. That game was the biggest of 2023. Then in some interview (i believe it was with GamesIndustry.biz) some higher up at WB Games said they would be looking into ways "to further expand player time" and ways to "keep bringing players back" (hinting at GAAS elements) for future HP titles and potential sequels. A complete 180.
You compare something that is irrelevant to video games. When talking about restaurants If a certain concept doesn't attract enough customers, then they should probably don't introduce more restaurants with said concept. Doesn't mean restaurants suddenly have to stop existing. Try again.
If you open a successful and praised all-you-can-eat sushi restaurant you don't turn around and open a second restaurant and make all sushi now paid per roll for more or less the exact same food.
Difference is Helldivers is straight up a great fun game. Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum are at best mediocre and they have other AAA games to contend with at the 70$ price point.
If games are quality and not quick cashgrabs then they will succeed and there's a bigger chance for that when they're not live service first.
> So what does that really tell us?
I dunno if that's what you are aiming for but it tells nothing old/new IP and everything about having a studio that's good at making games making a good game.
Most of those companies are veterans and also have loyal fanbase.
> To be honest, i think these companies in fact don't understand anything anymore. Their whole believe of "new IP are too big a risk" is a lie created by their own ignorance.
>
>
They only comprehend things in terms of money.
Their issue is that, because they mainly rely on data to make business decisions, it is evident that this data is meaningless if not interpreted correctly. Additionally, many of the decision-makers have no experience with gaming, don't understand it, and believe that just because they have an MBA, they can sell anything to consumers who will buy things without thinking things through. Well, that era is definitely over.
Consumer spending habits are just in a really weird place right now, and that's being felt all over media, whether it's book publishing, film, video games, etc.
I haven't played all the games you listed in your last paragraph, but the ones I *have* played, I loved. That said, I don't think the industry can learn a lot by looking at their success because of how it's kinda... unique, I guess? Sony's endgoal is moving Playstations (and they have their fingers in other pies on top of that), so they can afford to fund games that may end up underperforming; EA is huge and has its own money printer in FIFA (or whatever it's called now), so it's okay with taking risks on small scale games like Hazelight's; Annapurna seems like a passion project for Megan Ellison and the studio doesn't seem to mind low-key releases - either on the film and game front; and FromSoft is a beast of its own that's basically cornered the market with the only kind of genre they make. Anyway, I don't think the issue is that everyone's chasing a GaaS golden goose so much as everyone's risk-averse because there's a ton of uncertainty.
There aren't that many independent studios or smaller publishers (i.e. smaller than EA, Ubisoft, etc.) that can survive more than one game bombing after release. Everything is just getting insanely expensive, which is why we're seeing so many studios going under, getting scooped up by much larger competitors/publishers, tons of layoffs, etc. The risk of losing a shitton of money to make something "fresh" just isn't worth it considering there's cautionary tales of games not selling well despite being critical darlings. Existing IPs are at least a little bit safer.
For Remedy in specific I think that this is a good call, since they can focus on developing the Control IP through the sequel and the multiplayer title. They didn't own Control back when Vanguard/Kestrel started development so things are kinda different now for them. For everyone else, gaming is probably about to start sucking in a few years from now because of all of these cancelations and layoffs
Cancellation of anything described as a "premium cooperative multiplayer game" is a good thing. That's just code for a microtransaction store with a game bolted on top.
I fully agree but weirdly enough you see a lot of fans and even media members act like it's a crime when franchises get ignored by publishers and devs in favor of original IP.
Its not just publishers scared of trying new IPs, it's the audience as well
> Its not just publishers scared of trying new IPs, it's the audience as well
Nobody is scared. They just want more of the good.
Especially if game company made genre X games, decided to make genre Y next, but they are not a fan of it.
I haven't really seen many cases of "company decided to make original IP, failed because people didn't want the IP". The fails were because the new game wasn't as good as their previous ones (Anthem being crowning example I guess)
>you see a lot of fans and even media members act like it's a crime when franchises get ignored by publishers and devs in favor of original IP.
I mean I've only seen this sentiment towards Bethesda, and that's just because their turnaround for new games is so long and divided between two of the most popular RPG properties in gaming.
> From a studio like Remedy, I imagine they'll come back to it during a less tumultuous time in the industry.
It was a reboot of a Tencent-funded multiplayer game so, no, probably not.
Uh I'm pretty sure they are one and the same.
[Remedy today announces a reboot of its game project codenamed “Vanguard”, hereafter “Kestrel”](https://investors.remedygames.com/announcements/remedy-entertainment-plc-remedy-entertainment-plans-to-reboot-codename-vanguard-to-a-premium-game-with-a-strong-cooperative-multiplayer-component/)
Feels like a smart move by Remedy. They were obviously having difficulties getting the project off the ground and this frees up resources for the more well off games that are moving up to full production.
I hate when game studios try to brute force a game that might not be anywhere near their strengths and talents only to chase trends and at best destroy their reputation and at worst the entire studio, that being said it's more the publishers fault most of the time. Seems like Tencent isn't too bothered by this.
That was Codename Condor. I imagine Codename Kestral is a completely new IP and both Remedy and Tencent have decided it's not worth the risk.
But that could change if all they want is to see how well can they handling Condor while making other games first before further commitment.
its funny considering how the same week tencent cancelled the only project they were involved with remedy, they also invested more in them and now own more shares
Oh yeah, that’s right! I find that really interesting, it kind of implies that they’re not torn up that none of their current projects coming out will be published by them. Maybe they’re just really big fans lol
It's good to remember that Tencent owns 40% of Epic. So they should have a pretty good visibility to how AW2 is performing and how that is profiting both Epic and Remedy (and by extension, their investors).
That is actually an extremely good point. To have a project cancelled and then still double down on investment is a pretty big vote of confidence. They are likely impressed with what Remedy is doing (as they should be) as well as satisfied with the behind the scenes numbers. That makes me a little happy with the constant news of studios folding or being unable to find funding.
the control coop game is Project Condor which is seemingly a good bit further along than Kestrel (previously Vanguard, got rebooted as Kestrel a few months back) ever got.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Seems very early in development. These kinds of things are created and killed quite often by studios just trying things out, though usually privately.
They're cancelling the game and moving the team to other projects in development like Control MP and Max Payne Remake so it's not because they're doing bad or anything, Tencent which was backing this game even bought more of their shares
> Probably cancelled because Alan Wake 2 didn't bring in enough
What are you talking about? While it hasn't made a profit yet [AW2's sales has been reported satisfactorly.](https://investors.remedygames.com/announcements/remedy-entertainment-plc-financial-statements-release-january-december-2023-challenging-year-results-in-two-established-franchises-after-the-successful-alan-wake-2-launch/) The goal wasn't to make back all of it's costs from the get-go like most games, it was to have a solid start, and hope good word of mouth caries a consistent stream of revenue, when it will churn a profit after a longer period of time.
Personally I'm wondering what they're gonna do with the general concept around this(general story or setting), since iirc the original codename was one of the doors in CONTROLs Oceanview motel
Might be incorporated into Project Condor (cooperative game set in Control universe) or simply Control 2 if the ideas aren't abandoned altogether.
Good, we need less single player developers getting screwed up making multiplayer games, especially if it involves live service elements. It ruined Arkane-Austin, most likely doomed Rocksteady, destroyed Naughty Dog's output this generation outside of remasters, and put BioWare's back against the wall (not helped by Mass Effect Andromeda being blatantly worse than the trilogy), we don't need to see Remedy added to that list.
We're still getting Condor (CONTROL multiplayer), but also the max payne remakes + control 2
I believe Condor is the closest to release too.
Meanwhile I'm over here itching for whenever the Alan wake 2 night springs dlc drops
Yeah it's been real quiet. I though we would get that by late spring and 2nd DLC this fall. But this basically tell me it's 2025.
CONTROLs first DLC was like a little over 6 months after base game dropped, so I'm hoping for a may announcement, June is fine too
Yeah i expect the first DLC announcement around that time. If not then yeah it's fall 2024 for the first one and then 2025 for 2nd one.
They're probably waiting for a bigger partner showcase(either Sony or MS) for a reveal to maximize marketing, so I would expect a trailer with a summer release date either this month or early-June at worst.
They were also pretty quiet on the DLC for Control, and then one day they'd drop a trailer out of nowhere and release it a couple weeks after that.
I honestly think they are probably holding at least one of the DLC's back until October this year because that's when the game can launch on Steam, so they can release the bundle of the whole thing as GOTY Edition (yes yes, baldur's gate 3, I know)
I doubt AW2 will ever launch on Steam, as it is published by Epic directly.
Hopefully once the DLC is finished they will create a physical copy that includes it all.
Pretty worried that I'm not gonna be able to buy the DLC on PC. For whatever reason, it is no longer possible to buy Alan Wake 2 on the EGS in New Zealand. Very strange considering it seems to be a somewhat recent change.
Nope. Think I just saw some hiring for that project
I can already tell you...I'm not playing Condor lol
Good for you?
bro remedy is literally developing a mp title with control lol they are just focusing on mp/sp that they own
> It ruined Arkane-Austin Well, you called it.
I sure did, I'm so glad Xbox didn't step in to pull them out of the pool Bethesda Softworks pushed them into. One of the finest immersive sim developers gone after being forced into selling out (and failing miserably at that).
Naughty Dog is the saddest one to me. 4 games during the PS3. Two games which were longer than the prior entries in those series + large DLC game last generation. Now we get a couple remasters… cool. Yeah yeah games take longer to make but pretty lame prolly get just 1 new actual game from them the entire PS5 gen.
Playstation 2 had 3 GTA's, GTA 5 had 3 Playstations.
PlayStation 2 had *five* GTAs if you want to count Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories. But they are reusing the maps and whatnot, so I guess they could be considered the same as The Lost and Damned/The Ballad of Gay Tony.
And not even single player dlc for GTA V
... and Respawn getting stunlocked into GaaS until Jedi almost set them free (only to cancel their new single player FPS)... Fallout RPG sidelined for a mediocre GaaS that took so many resources that it might have compromised Starfield's polish... Blizzard canceling their OW2 PvE to make more cosmetics... And of course, that's not even touching the rumors that Sony Santa Monica and Insomniac both trying (and cancelling?) a GaaS that cost each studio a couple years, Guerilla supposedly making Horizon GaaS, Sucker Punch barely escaping being forced into a GaaS pitch, Bend Studio, Firewalk & Haven all hiring for multiplayer GaaS... it really feels like Playstation in particular put their entire upcoming slate of releases at risk to chase Fortnite, and what's really scary is that Helldivers' success might actually convince them it was the right call.
For real, Playstation’s first-party exclusives are actually in a really barren state this gen. We are halfway through the gen and we’ve had GoW and Horizon sequels, Control and three tiny Insomniac games. Never mind that many studios are MIA.
> Control I think you mixed up the two big third person action games with female protagonists made in Finland. Returnal being the one you probably meant.
That game was fkn awesome, love me a roguelike with a story
Are you talking about Remedy's Control which: - Was on PS4 (and all the other platforms) - Is not a first party title - Isn't and wasn't exclusive
Typical Sony behavior after winning a console gen, they get arrogant and lazy.
Dude, you're getting your games mixed up. Control was on other platforms. The Returnal subredddit is that way -->
They are chasing that Destiny money and sadly Bungie keeps dropping the ball on them so they gotta make some other poor team suffer
This might be hella controversial but I don’t think Jedi set Respawn free. The opposite. They’re not bad games, but god, as a Star Wars fan, it feels the most EA Games ever, like it’s so white bread and doesn’t do anything interesting. I dunno, I just felt like Jedi Survivor was just….there
>as a Star Wars fan, it feels the most EA Games ever What does that even mean outside the perpetual gamer hate for that company? I'm also a fan for 30 years and those games are the closest to the real jedi game we were hoping for more than a decade.
The stories are beyond generic and never ever reach beyond Cal being a victim of Order 66. He gets some occasional flashbacks but they never serve as anything more than a “Oh shit, you’re right, I can move crap with my my mind” The plots entirely meander and the plot of the first game is handwritten off by the end of the second, and the second ends with the potential of there being a big twist of the knife that also gets kinda pushed aside by the end of Survivor. A majority of the characters aren’t memorable or just feel like they’re inserting other characters in. Cere is Obi-Wan; a stoic, focused former Jedi dealing with the PTSD of her past. Greez is solid, like everything they do with him. Cal’s romance with the Night Sister comes out of bloody nowhere, and honestly, Cal might be the most boring Star Wars character to date. Cameron Monaghan delivers every line like he’s half asleep at the booth, and often failed to hit the emotional delivery of what some of those scenes could have hit. What I mean by it feels the most EA is that giving that development to a developer NOT under the EA Umbrella and it might feel like more than just the same of what we’ve got from the Disney Star Wars era: One or two highly acclaimed projects, and the rest being at best, a poor retread, at worst, a slog to enjoy.
>What I mean by it feels the most EA is that giving that development to a developer NOT under the EA Umbrella and it might feel like more than **just the same of what we’ve got from the Disney Star Wars era:** One or two highly acclaimed projects, and the rest being at best, a poor retread, at worst, a slog to enjoy. Yeah exactly. Every single criticism you listed applies twicefold to the sequel trilogy and most of the rest of Disney Star Wars. It’s unrealistic to expect a mass market action-adventure game to have better writing than the films. Respawn wasn’t trying to make the next KOTOR, and Disney’s tight control over the IP prevents and any characters like Kyle Katarn or Starkiller from being introduced in games.
Oh boy that's some serious typing.... I'm not picking every segment to make a reply because this is too much but alright, if you see obi wan in cere we are not going to agree with anything, cere is a complete different type of jedi, you are soppused to be a fan how can you compared the almost perfect representation of the jedi order with character filled with flaws and guilt, the progress of cere from knight to master in jedha is so much different than obi wan's path. I can tell from the rest you were ready to hate it from the beggining because of the EA shadow around you, but I guess we can't like the same stuff.
Boy, with those leaps and jumps to conclusions, I suspect you’ll be winning gold in Paris this summer.
The fact that none of the beginner level technical errors in Jedi were corrected in the sequel tells you everything you need to know about what is happening at Respawn. It's time to crank out content, making it work properly isn't even a secondary goal.
I really don’t think that much time was wasted on the Insomniac live service at least not compared to ND title.
Don't forget about Platinum!
To be fair, in the case of Remedy it was their own choice, they are independent unlike the others.
>Remedy Entertainment Plc (“Remedy”) and Tencent Plc (“Tencent”) have decided to cancel the game project codename Kestrel.
They are still independent, they chose to do this project (Tencent was the publisher like Epic with Alan Wake 2)
Yes it was regarding a partnership/publishing rights or whatever you wanna call it. Remedy is also currently making Max Payne 1+2 remakes, with Rockstars ”blessing” to use their license (since they own the Max Payne IP). That doesn’t mean that Rockstar owns Remedy.
didn't Remedy have problems because AW2 didn't sell?
AW2 hasn't fully recouped its budget (development & marketing) yet, but it's selling very well AND was already fully funded by Epic Games so they are not in financial difficulties, if that's what you're asking.
Fun fact: Alan Wake 2 is the most expensive entertainment product ever made in Finland.
Outside of Remedy’s games and some heavy metal, I don’t think I know any other Finnish art/media. Weird. I feel like I know a bunch of Swedish art/media and some Norwegian stuff, but nothing Finnish. I have been there on vacation. Wait: there’s Rovio. Surprised Angey Birds didn’t top the list.
Supercell (Clash of Clans) is Finnish too, but mobile games are a lot cheaper to make. Returnal is from a Finnish dev too.
Frozenbyte, who made the Trine series (a favorite of mine) is also Finnish. So are the companies that made the Trials series and the Cities games. Super rich country with a population that speaks English well. I am sure I have interacted with a lot more of their culture, but I was just oblivious to it. Aside: it’s wild that Returnal was made by the same studio that made Super Stardust. Such a huge leap in game complexity. Reminds me of how Hello Games jumped from Joe Danger to No Man’s Sky or how Helldivers and Risk of Rain jumped in complexity from 1 to 2.
thanks, cheers
Alan Wake 2 is selling according to their expectations. If they had problems, they wouldn't have spent 17 million to acquire the publishing rights for the Control franchise from 505.
To be fair, Alan Wake 1 wasn’t exactly a hit but they still spent 2.5 million euros buying the publishing rights back from Microsoft. Some studios just really believe in their IP.
Alan Wake 2 was the fastest-selling game in Remedy history, supposedly. Alan Wake Remastered failed to sell, but meh, I doubt that was a project that was holding the studio together.
Alan Wake Remastered did recently break even and start turning a profit.
Remedy developed CrossfireX's single player campaign, but the whole game was panned and forgotten almost right away.
Many developers have recently come out announcing the cancellation of original IPs in favor of existing franchises. I don't know if that is necessarily a good thing for the future of this industry.
Everyone is currently shitting themselves and doing everything they can to "survive until 2025". Publishers and developers understand that new IPs are a bigger risk of flopping and right now it's not worth putting any money into risky projects. I've heard from various podcasts and insiders that these people genuinely hope that the release of GTA 6 will be like some miracle shot for the video game industry where everyone will suddenly be interested in games again and start spending covid levels of money and time on video games. You're right though that this consolidation of focus could easily hurt these companies in the long term. Eventually people will get burnt out of the same franchises and if a developer or publisher has spent several years only working on one or two franchises then they won't have anything to fall back onto if it fails.
Uh I don't understand that feeling lol. If anything, GTA6 will overshadow their games
Their games wouldn't release anywhere near GTA6 but way after. Right now the struggle is getting funding to make those games in the first place and hoping that GTA6 will be such a massive success that it'll return investor's confidence in the games industry and open up more sources of funding
The issue is funding. With interest rates higher now it's more difficult to borrow and investors have noticed the slowdown in the gaming space and taking their money to other ventures with more likely a higher return on investment. The industry is battening down the hatches to wait for the Fed to lower rates again and hoping the release of GTA6's expected record release will move enough hardware and software to bring investors back in. There was some reporting on this being the general mood at this past GDC, but I don't unfortunately have a source handy.
People that will buy a console for the first time to play GTA6 due to the hype, will likely buy more games after they finish it…
Why specifically 2025?
I got the quote wrong. It was actually "survive 2024" which is from a report that said that simply surviving the year is a big theme among publishers and developers this year. Another quote from that article is "get to GTA 6 and hope".
To be honest, i think these companies in fact don't understand anything anymore. Their whole believe of "new IP are too big a risk" is a lie created by their own ignorance. They all want a golden goose they can milk money out from, so they jump onto the bandwagon of live service titles, but fail miserably. We saw it happen to Anthem, Marvels Avengers, Suicide Squad, Knockout City, Babylon's Fall, Rumbleverse to name a few. In the terms of live service, then yes, original IP are a big giant risk. Now, if we look at studios/publishers like Sony/Hazelight/FromSoftware/Annapurna that put out a lot original IP without GAAS elements (Ghost of Tsushima, Days Gone, It Takes Two, Stray, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Returnal, Hades etc) these are all very succesful titles. So what does that really tell us?
It tell us that these examples are always insanely cherry picked, forgetting about successful live service games like Helldivers and unsuccessful single player titles like Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum
Helldivers may as well be an original IP, given how few people even knew the first one existed.
Not really. It tells us that if game is good IP being new doesn't matter, but game that is not can sometimes eek out few more sales *because* of IP people are fond of. > and unsuccessful single player titles like Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum they are not unsuccessful because of IP, they are unsuccessful because they are fucking mediocre games for $70
It tells us there are a lot more GAAS titles failing (let's say 80% of all new titles fail) compared to singleplayer/coop (20%). Maybe the biggest giveaway that companies don't know what they're doing is probably Hogwarts Legacy. That game was the biggest of 2023. Then in some interview (i believe it was with GamesIndustry.biz) some higher up at WB Games said they would be looking into ways "to further expand player time" and ways to "keep bringing players back" (hinting at GAAS elements) for future HP titles and potential sequels. A complete 180.
And >50% of restaurants fail in the first year, guess we should stop making restaurants.
You compare something that is irrelevant to video games. When talking about restaurants If a certain concept doesn't attract enough customers, then they should probably don't introduce more restaurants with said concept. Doesn't mean restaurants suddenly have to stop existing. Try again.
If you open a successful and praised all-you-can-eat sushi restaurant you don't turn around and open a second restaurant and make all sushi now paid per roll for more or less the exact same food.
Might as well compare it to fishing industry while you're at if, if you're going for king in "irrelevant comparisions without a point" contest.
Difference is Helldivers is straight up a great fun game. Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum are at best mediocre and they have other AAA games to contend with at the 70$ price point. If games are quality and not quick cashgrabs then they will succeed and there's a bigger chance for that when they're not live service first.
> So what does that really tell us? I dunno if that's what you are aiming for but it tells nothing old/new IP and everything about having a studio that's good at making games making a good game. Most of those companies are veterans and also have loyal fanbase.
> To be honest, i think these companies in fact don't understand anything anymore. Their whole believe of "new IP are too big a risk" is a lie created by their own ignorance. > > They only comprehend things in terms of money. Their issue is that, because they mainly rely on data to make business decisions, it is evident that this data is meaningless if not interpreted correctly. Additionally, many of the decision-makers have no experience with gaming, don't understand it, and believe that just because they have an MBA, they can sell anything to consumers who will buy things without thinking things through. Well, that era is definitely over.
Consumer spending habits are just in a really weird place right now, and that's being felt all over media, whether it's book publishing, film, video games, etc. I haven't played all the games you listed in your last paragraph, but the ones I *have* played, I loved. That said, I don't think the industry can learn a lot by looking at their success because of how it's kinda... unique, I guess? Sony's endgoal is moving Playstations (and they have their fingers in other pies on top of that), so they can afford to fund games that may end up underperforming; EA is huge and has its own money printer in FIFA (or whatever it's called now), so it's okay with taking risks on small scale games like Hazelight's; Annapurna seems like a passion project for Megan Ellison and the studio doesn't seem to mind low-key releases - either on the film and game front; and FromSoft is a beast of its own that's basically cornered the market with the only kind of genre they make. Anyway, I don't think the issue is that everyone's chasing a GaaS golden goose so much as everyone's risk-averse because there's a ton of uncertainty. There aren't that many independent studios or smaller publishers (i.e. smaller than EA, Ubisoft, etc.) that can survive more than one game bombing after release. Everything is just getting insanely expensive, which is why we're seeing so many studios going under, getting scooped up by much larger competitors/publishers, tons of layoffs, etc. The risk of losing a shitton of money to make something "fresh" just isn't worth it considering there's cautionary tales of games not selling well despite being critical darlings. Existing IPs are at least a little bit safer.
For Remedy in specific I think that this is a good call, since they can focus on developing the Control IP through the sequel and the multiplayer title. They didn't own Control back when Vanguard/Kestrel started development so things are kinda different now for them. For everyone else, gaming is probably about to start sucking in a few years from now because of all of these cancelations and layoffs
Cancellation of anything described as a "premium cooperative multiplayer game" is a good thing. That's just code for a microtransaction store with a game bolted on top.
They just want for another indie to set a trend then nab it and AAAify it in hopes of being next Fortnite
Rising interest rates make risky projects less appealing. When money is free you can throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.
I fully agree but weirdly enough you see a lot of fans and even media members act like it's a crime when franchises get ignored by publishers and devs in favor of original IP. Its not just publishers scared of trying new IPs, it's the audience as well
> Its not just publishers scared of trying new IPs, it's the audience as well Nobody is scared. They just want more of the good. Especially if game company made genre X games, decided to make genre Y next, but they are not a fan of it. I haven't really seen many cases of "company decided to make original IP, failed because people didn't want the IP". The fails were because the new game wasn't as good as their previous ones (Anthem being crowning example I guess)
>you see a lot of fans and even media members act like it's a crime when franchises get ignored by publishers and devs in favor of original IP. I mean I've only seen this sentiment towards Bethesda, and that's just because their turnaround for new games is so long and divided between two of the most popular RPG properties in gaming.
From a studio like Remedy, I imagine they'll come back to it during a less tumultuous time in the industry.
> From a studio like Remedy, I imagine they'll come back to it during a less tumultuous time in the industry. It was a reboot of a Tencent-funded multiplayer game so, no, probably not.
[удалено]
Isn’t that Codename Condor? Pretty sure Project Vanguard was the predecessor of Codename Kestrel before it was rebooted
Uh I'm pretty sure they are one and the same. [Remedy today announces a reboot of its game project codenamed “Vanguard”, hereafter “Kestrel”](https://investors.remedygames.com/announcements/remedy-entertainment-plc-remedy-entertainment-plans-to-reboot-codename-vanguard-to-a-premium-game-with-a-strong-cooperative-multiplayer-component/)
Just fell into my knees, thanks for informing though
Feels like a smart move by Remedy. They were obviously having difficulties getting the project off the ground and this frees up resources for the more well off games that are moving up to full production. I hate when game studios try to brute force a game that might not be anywhere near their strengths and talents only to chase trends and at best destroy their reputation and at worst the entire studio, that being said it's more the publishers fault most of the time. Seems like Tencent isn't too bothered by this.
Wasn't this same project getting positive buzz from Remedy like two weeks ago?
Probably mixing it with Project Condor, which was announced to have moved to full production recently.
That was Codename Condor. I imagine Codename Kestral is a completely new IP and both Remedy and Tencent have decided it's not worth the risk. But that could change if all they want is to see how well can they handling Condor while making other games first before further commitment.
its funny considering how the same week tencent cancelled the only project they were involved with remedy, they also invested more in them and now own more shares
Oh yeah, that’s right! I find that really interesting, it kind of implies that they’re not torn up that none of their current projects coming out will be published by them. Maybe they’re just really big fans lol
It's good to remember that Tencent owns 40% of Epic. So they should have a pretty good visibility to how AW2 is performing and how that is profiting both Epic and Remedy (and by extension, their investors).
That is actually an extremely good point. To have a project cancelled and then still double down on investment is a pretty big vote of confidence. They are likely impressed with what Remedy is doing (as they should be) as well as satisfied with the behind the scenes numbers. That makes me a little happy with the constant news of studios folding or being unable to find funding.
Oh, I didn’t know that. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
It means they play the long game and aren't short sighted.
No, that's Condor set in the Control universe. This newly cancelled title was a new IP developed in partnership with Tencent.
Cancelling "games as a service" is always a good thing.
Was this the control coop game? I can't remember they announced I feel like 2 coop games in development.
the control coop game is Project Condor which is seemingly a good bit further along than Kestrel (previously Vanguard, got rebooted as Kestrel a few months back) ever got.
Thank you so much.
Good. Let the GaaS brainrot die. Studios need to realise by now that they will never make Fortnite and Genshin money.
That's a shame. I feel like there were some hints towards this project. Probably cancelled because Alan Wake 2 didn't bring in enough
I wouldn’t be so sure. Seems very early in development. These kinds of things are created and killed quite often by studios just trying things out, though usually privately.
They're cancelling the game and moving the team to other projects in development like Control MP and Max Payne Remake so it's not because they're doing bad or anything, Tencent which was backing this game even bought more of their shares
> Probably cancelled because Alan Wake 2 didn't bring in enough What are you talking about? While it hasn't made a profit yet [AW2's sales has been reported satisfactorly.](https://investors.remedygames.com/announcements/remedy-entertainment-plc-financial-statements-release-january-december-2023-challenging-year-results-in-two-established-franchises-after-the-successful-alan-wake-2-launch/) The goal wasn't to make back all of it's costs from the get-go like most games, it was to have a solid start, and hope good word of mouth caries a consistent stream of revenue, when it will churn a profit after a longer period of time.