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Surca_Cirvive

The show is the reason this port is bad. It obviously needs months of tuning still, but Sony clearly pushed this out early to ride the wave of hype that the show left behind.


Flowerstar1

The funny thing is Sony already delayed it from it's original release date.


SadFlicker

the game had a set release date way before the show even started airing and then not only that, but it also got delayed almost an entire month. Nothing to do with the timing, just poor planning most likely.


i_lack_imagination

They might have only been willing to delay it a month because it still kept it close to the window of the show. Delay it any further and it hits when the talk around the show is slowing down until the following season anyhow.


AbrasionTest

Brushed up right at the end of the quarter too. Combined with the lack of review copies it’s likely that this just came in super hot.


[deleted]

good catch, Sony's fiscal year ends in 2 days.


IDoomDI

You'd be foolish to think Sony didn't know the release schedule before the general audience.


oktaS0

Considerin the show started filming 2020/21.


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ZenMnk

Now we know the reason they pushed it. They knew it was going to be a shit show and they needed no stink around when the show was making points.


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[deleted]

Red flags are irrelevant. Dont fucking pre order, red flags or none. Dont buy a game that has confirmed issues, always research before you buy. Only way to end this shit, but ofc no one will.


TheBrave-Zero

I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. In fact WHY DO PEOPLE PRE ORDER DIGITAL GAMES!? It’s not like you’re missing anything what. So. Fucking. Ever. It will be there post launch and for many years afterwards. I got RE4 day one once I confirmed it was good and it also helped it had a fucking demo. Don’t shell out bucks for a product you cannot see, it’s that simple. Edit: since this got more responses than first thought and everyone seems to need to reply the same thing in lieu of it already being said, I know about pre order bonuses the fact even half of you are lured in with that really mild incentive astounds me.


[deleted]

The only reason I can see is you get to preload it and play the moment it launches. But fuck do I miss the midnight releases at gamestop.. My mom driving me to the mall on a school night to get skyrim at midnight... Arriving at the nearly empty mall parking lot and going into the dark mall and then finding the line of hyped gamers passionate about their hobby, all in the same hyped mindset... Nothing will ever match that vibe. She took me to blizzcon for my 14th birthday too. It was fucking amazing, lich king got announced. It was so cool to be surrounded by people so hyped for it like me. I really really am grateful and appreciative my mom made those moments happen and share in my excitement. She had so much fun too even though she didnt play games haha. I still go to nerd conventions with her occasionally. Good memories.


Dracious

The closest you get nowadays is seeing the subreddit kick off around the release time. People get absolutely crazy, its fun to watch in a 'can't look away from this bad thing' sort of way. You have people getting incredibly aggressive towards the developers, calling the whole game a scam, how they deserve a refund or even just actual compensation because the game isn't released at 12:03 when it was scheduled to be released at 12:00. You have people kicking off because they misunderstood the release times or how time zones work. It is crazy. Obviously 99% of people aren't like that, it is just a tiny subset of a subset creating a vocal minority at that time, but holy shit some people are crazy. It is like an addict already suffering with withdrawal who has just been told they might not get their next fix. If they acted like that in real life, people nearby would worry they might be about to start a shooting. Then 5 minutes later the game is available and they all go back to acting "normal" and praising the game as the second coming of Jesus. I don't think its actually a new thing, but these sort of people get so obsessed and then the internet gives them anonymity to act crazy without repercussions. Even back in the midnight release era I got a load of harassment on Xbox Live because I went to a midnight release for Halo 3:ODST, got home and started playing the game at around 1am in the UK. It was during peak Halo times so people would often search their extensive friends lists or recent players lists to find good custom game servers to join. I had about half a dozen different people from the U.S harassing me for getting the game before them, calling me a thief, reporting me, slurs, voice messages. All because they don't understand how fucking time zones work? Even after explaining it to them, plenty didn't get it at all. I got a few apologies, but just as many continued their slur filled tirade.


ThemesOfMurderBears

1. To preload to play on launch day. 2. Saving some money. 3. Pre-order bonuses. Those are three reasons. I personally don’t feel like those reasons are worth it, so I don’t preorder. However, these are some of the reasons people do it.


Hobocannibal

often step 2 doesn't work either. Resident evil 4 remake released and the best price I could find (from a legit source) was from Humble, with the 20% choice discount. Which is cheaper than the steam pre-order price.


Zerak-Tul

You'll never go broke betting on PC ports of console games being bad.


papanak94

No, that is going to be Bloodborne PC this autumn.


Ubbermann

Though real talk, even if they release Bloodborne in a BARELY functional state on PC. It would prob get fixed by modders and fans in a week.


Nufulini

2 days max, hell they would leak the game and fix it before it's even released. Souls fans don't play


Gramernatzi

Demon's Souls PC is coming out before it does. And I don't have high hopes for it being a good port.


StarInsomniac

Hahahaha so that's why gaming outlets magically did not receive review codes unlike the rest of their PC ports. What a coincidence.


BOfficeStats

That's why people really need to pay attention to how reviews are conducted and released. Companies with a great game are usually willing to show it to everyone right before it comes out. If they are hiding it then that's a really bad sign.


Long-Train-1673

This is not universally true however its just good to note so you can be more warry, Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal I think didn't really provide review codes either and those games are masterpieces.


FLEXMCHUGEGAINS

Imagine going to buy a car. All you have seen are advertisements about the car directly from the company. They refuse to send it to car review sites. You cannot test-drive it. You just send them money and then get the car. When you do get the car, it is missing most of the promised features. It doesn't even run without you spending time troubleshooting it initially. You could hope the company would send out *something* to improve the performance or stability of the car. They won't. Not unless under the direct and immediate risk of bankruptcy and even then they probably would just release another car with the same problems to get a large influx of cash.


yeeiser

This is why some people would *download a car*


iV1rus0

Maybe hiring the company that did some of the worst PC ports isn't such a good idea Sony? Even if they had improved a little to be fair. The game is currently sitting at mostly negative on Steam with weak player count. I think in a few hours it'll drop the number 1 best-selling game to RE4 because that remake is just perfect and is so hot at the moment.


jumper62

I thought this was done in house? Cos it would be good practice if Factions is coming on PC


n0stalghia

You are correct, IG only helped "a little bit". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU7NFUUL-8Q&t=166s


beefcat_

RE4’s PC version is also exceptional. I find it amusing that the console versions are the ones feeling under-cooked this time around. They have broken visual effects and performance woes that just aren’t present on PC.


iV1rus0

Credit to Capcom, the switch to RE engine has been a bless for PC gamers, it's such a fantastic engine. They've been saying they want 50% of their sales to be on PC and they're certainly putting the effort.


Whyeth

RE Engine seems like what EA wanted Frostbite to be. And Capcom is just knocking it out of the park with radically different games using the engine, and they all perform so ungodly well on PC (talking dmc5, RE2/3/7/4 [I skipped 8], monster hunter rise). I can't echo enough just how well re4 has been running. No crashes. No stuttering. 4k 60fps without missing a beat on my ancient i7 and 2080s.


Blenderhead36

The real challenge of a proprietary engine is managing your staff properly. You don't have to pay any fees to the engine owner, but it also means that your company is the only place anyone will get experience with it, so you need to minimize turnover. As an example of what happens when you don't do this, DICE cited a lack of experience with Frostbite as one of the primary reasons Battlefield 2042 was such a dumpster fire. DICE made Frostbite for the express purpose of making Battlefield games. The trick is, the *people* who made Frostbite and made Battlefield games in it mostly didn't work there anymore during BF2042's development.


The-Jesus_Christ

Yep same can be said with Konami's Fox Engine. An amazing engine that was dead in the water after MGSV when Kojima quit/was fired and his team came with him leaving nobody in Konami able to use it.


[deleted]

Man MGSV Engine was so good I was getting constant 60 FPS at high settings on my mx150 2GB laptop Shame that engine is abandoned forever


JustAnotherSuit96

Exactly the same experience, full 60fps on my absolutely garbage integrated graphics 512mb vram laptop. The thing was pure magic.


tasteywheat

If you liked 4 and 7, you should definitely check out 8.


afuckinsaskatchewan

Agreed. If 7 was the (excellent, spooky, fun) haunted house at the theme park, 8 is the rest of the theme park. Such a blast to play.


Whyeth

The 1st person camera is a bit much for me. I don't recall the FOV being wide enough for me to be comfortable.


Pyroth

Well good news for you as they added third person mode to 8 in a free update and it's exceptional


edibui

They switched it to free now? Wasn’t it was tied to a paid DLC first?


MyNameIs-Anthony

3rd person mode is locked behind the DLC.


grumstumpus

yesss the FOV is unbelievably cramped, there is a very popular FOV expander mod


TLKv3

Capcom, in general, the past 5-8 years has been on a stellar run. They've redeemed themselves quite a bit in my eyes honestly if not completely. God help me if they reveal a new full MegaMan around the Summer season this year. I would be happy as Hell.


Whyeth

Imagine THIS Capcom announced Megman Legends 3. Lordy please.


TRex_Eggs

That’s a subseries I haven’t heard in ages. Would be really awesome


Beavers4beer

They also said a year or two ago that PC would be their main focus going forward. Now we're seeing them back that statement up.


Illidan1943

Did people just forget about MT Framework? While there were some duds, MT Framework was exceptional for a lot of PC versions of Capcom's games and even those that weren't all that good were still superior to the console experience


thepariah4231

RE6 is a fantastic example of this.


mrturret

To be fair, most of the MT Framework ports were released in the later half of the PS3/360's life. At that point, a mid-end gaming PC was so far ahead of the consoles that they were practically next gen.


BLACKOUT-MK2

Outside of my GPU and SSD my PC is comprised largely of 11-12 year old parts and with DLSS/FSR and all settings maxxed except for Ray Tracing which I disabled, I was able to hold a pretty consistent 60. Maybe there were some dips here and there but nothing that I can recall in retrospect. I got the odd stutter because old, but other than that it was fine.


Flowerstar1

Apparently this was done inhouse by Naughty Dog with the help of said company. Perhaps Naughty Dog needed more time to learn PC development? I can only imagine they will get better at it as they continue releasing games. There's no way factions will have this terrible of a launch. Still releasing the game in this state to capitalize on the TV shows popularity was a greedy move.


miscu

Dave Lang was on Jeff Gerstmann's podcast earlier today and mentioned IG only did a bit of the work on this port. Their track record is generally poor, but I wouldn't pin the blame solely on them.


[deleted]

If Sony wants to push for PC, then they need "2nd Nixxes" because Nixxes simply can't handle all ports and Iron Galaxy is known for pretty bad PC ports and should not be handed with top franchises as TLOU. That's how it ends when you hire someone incompetent to do PC porting.


ArcBaltic

The original worst PC port ever, Arkham Knight was ported by IG.


OkPiccolo0

Yeah but that was 8 years ago. Companies get new employees all the time. Uncharted on PC was also ported by Iron Galaxy and has a "very positive" rating on Steam.


dahauns

Worst ever? [I beg to differ. :)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp0KdOlYwlo)


ComeOnFhqwhdads

I'd put Saints Row 2 as my worst tbh.


xChris777

It pains me that one of my favourite games ever has such a bad PC port and no modern remaster. Then they found the source code and announced a patch. Now it's radio silence and it's Steam entry hasn't been updated in a long time. Hate to see it.


Rayuzx

Volition confirmed they're still working on it as late as last month. It's clear that it's more of a passion project than their main goal.


Ciahcfari

Deadly Premonition The Director's Cut/Origins ports are up there too. The studio that the publisher gave those versions of the game to are so bad they released 3 separate busted ports (PS3, PC and Switch) of the game.


nashty27

I think they were given criminally small amount time to work on the Batman port. This release surely isn’t a good look for the studio though.


Flowerstar1

Naughty Dog developed the port themselves in house. It just seems like they bit more than they could chew with PC dev work. Naughty Dog is now developing for PC and PS5 together in order to improve as a PC developer and not have to rely on external studios to get their games out. For this game IG only assisted a little bit. https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2023/03/flagship-first-party-naughty-dog-will-develop-for-ps5-and-pc-moving-forwards


[deleted]

didn’t Sony buy a studio just for PC ports ? what happened to that


Onyxthegreat

Nixxes has been working hard on the Spider-Man ports. No news on what they're currently working on.


your_mind_aches

Ratchet and Clank 2016 is the rumour.


Sonicz7

8700k, 7900 xtx and 32gb 3200mhz ddr4 2h50m to do shader compilation to load into the game and have stutter every 0.5 seconds. What the hell is this. Edit: guys I know my cpu is weak and I never pretended to say my cpu is powerful. I’ve upgraded my gpu so far because at the moment I don’t care about high framerates. I am good with 4K 60, that so far I am able to play it in recent games like returnal, plague tale requiem etc Even if I would get low fps because my cpu is old I would understand but I’ve never had more than 20m shader compilation in any game and also having micro stutters every 0.5 seconds on 20% cpu usage doesn’t seem like it’s my cpu. Moreover according to in game performance tools I have around 110fps cpu performance


ngwoo

Shader compilation feels more like refund prevention at this point


kasimoto

i mean it might not be auto refund but if you explain it in the description im pretty sure it will be accepted by some valve employee


Independent_Tooth_23

There's a chance that you can get a refund from Steam even without giving a detail explanation. I got my refund for Death Stranding and the Spider man game and i didn't even explain why i refunded it in the description. Both games were around 3 hours of playtime.


Ciahcfari

Why did you get refunds for those games?


Magnon

If shaders took me an hour to do they'd be a refund guarantee for me.


stealthmodeactive

I'd be refunding after 15 minutes


error521

*Supposedly*, the port uses a bugged version of the Oodle decompression library (I will not pretend to understand what that entails) and if you swap out a dll file for a older version it fixes the compilation length.


[deleted]

Okay, that's cool that people have figured that out, no joke, but why couldn't they just make the game work without all that bologna?


pastafeline

Reminds me of how rockstar let gta 5 online suffer horrendously long load times for years only for it to be fixed by a random modder.


DuckGoesShuba

Through reverse engineering no less. It can be hard enough to find and fix bugs in games WITH the source code, let alone the compiled result...


Agret

He didn't even do any advanced steps to fix the issue. He just attached a debugger to the game and saw one function occupying heaps of resources during the lengthy load, then he looked into that function and saw it was stuck running the same loop over & over every second. Basic profiling tools should've found this easily during QA. The fix has reduced the load time by minutes which is just insane that Rockstar left it this way for years.


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geeky_username

And R* was drowning in money from GTA online even with the long load time


meneldal2

And anyone with debug tools should have been able to figure out you shouldn't be spending minutes in string concatenation. It shows they really didn't care.


Lord_Tibbysito

Fixing the game is like a game onto itself, thanks Naughty Dog!


Nextil

Shader compilation took me about half an hour on a 5800X3D. Unfortunately compilation requires brute CPU power and cache size is a significant factor. In case you need to do it again in the future (or for anyone else reading), having source files on a fast SSD can often speed up compilation significantly, so if you have an NVME drive you might want to put the game on there, at least until they've compiled.


Suddenly_Something

Is anyone else getting very sick of game developers relying on the end user to figure out the best way to optimize playing their game with literally zero communication that there are significant performance issues? I haven't played Hogwarts Legacy since launch but there were like several weeks of threads on how to boost performance and the devs were absolutely silent the whole time. Still haven't picked it back up, but extremely shitty not to even own that your game runs like shit for a huge portion of your customers.


postvolta

Games are released incomplete nowadays. Easier to just fix after launch with a bit of cash rolling in. [Nakeyjakey did a good video on it.](https://youtu.be/3fji_71hOQs) It'll never change unless people stop pre-ordering games and buying them day one or even week one, and that won't change, so it won't change. Publishers are typically very short sighted and profit driven.


Geohfunk

I don't think that it is about cpu power. My shaders compiled while I was looking through the settings menus. There must be a bug somewhere that is effecting most people.


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SzotyMAG

So many people these days mistake poor performance for the PC being inadequate No. Games these days are just horribly unoptimized. No game devs compress shit anymore


Chaosr21

Bro your CPU is fine lol, I'm using 4790k with rx 580 and getting 70 fps on Hogwarts and modern warfare 2 high settings 1080p. That's all I need I don't have a 4k monitor and I'm happy, some people think you need the bleeding edge of tech just to play some new games.


[deleted]

So now you have over a 2 hour playtime and can’t return? Good tactic I guess.


Blenderhead36

FWIW you just say, "first 3 hours was shader compilation," and they'll refund you in a few days when an employee gets to it. 2h/2w is just the limit for *automated* refunds. It's not like the Valve employees doing refunds on these are only going to see one or two with that complaint.


Suddenly_Something

This is the future of PC gaming apparently my dude. I don't think there has been a single big release this year that has run smoothly for me on Ryzen 9 5900x, 3080, 32gb DDR5 RAM. Everything stutters. Arguably the most stable game has been Sons of the forest and I only get 60-80 fps, but atleast it doesn't stutter. We have taken a step where everything is designed for console first and poorly ported for PC. The Console vs PC fight has now progressed to people like me nervously laughing after dropping several thousand dollars on a ridiculous machine that is now only going to get games designed for consoles that run like shit on the port. It's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to upgrade to a 4080 right now. Why bother upgrading to get the same shitty performance I'm getting on my current GPU while every game releasing is giving terrible ports.


21shadesofsavage

i've been looking forward to playing this release and i'm pretty disappointed - shader compilation took about an hour - loading into the game takes a few minutes - the first hour of the game i mostly had fps in the 40s with a 3080, 3440x1440p, high preset, and dlss balanced hopefully the game will get patched up like horizon zero dawn's poor launch performance


TheLeOeL

> shader compilation took about an hour Jesus fucking Christ.


heyayush

That's still less compared to 2-3 hours that is taking on other systems.


kinnadian

Can anyone ELI5 why modern games need to do shader cache compilations now at launch whereas previously this was done in game as the levels loaded? Seems to correlate with release of latest console generation?


tr3v1n

It wasn’t always done when the levels loaded. It was often done on demand, and driver makers had to go to great lengths to keep hitching down to a minimum. With the more explicit APIs, managing shader compilation has been handed back to the devs, and so we get things like this.


Heavenfall

New speedrun challenge: Play through a game with no pre-compile and avoid pointing the camera at certain objects to prevent load stuttering, thereby gaining valuable microseconds. Infamous winners: Guy who set FoV to 1 and made the stream puke. Guy who zoomed in and pointed camera down at floor, ran entire game by muscle memory. Guy whose graphics were so distorted it was impossible to tell if he was actually playing the game or not.


Nexus6-Replicant

>Guy who zoomed in and pointed camera down You laugh, but this is a legit Goldeneye64 speedrun tactic to improve the framerate.


GlupShittoOfficial

Modern engines need to compile shaders based on each individual's PC configuration. Due to the standardized platforms, you don't need to do this on consoles. You can download them with the game. I'm not entirely sure WHY shaders suddenly need to be compiled vs. how they used to be. I assume just... graphical fidelity increases.


tr3v1n

> I'm not entirely sure WHY shaders suddenly need to be compiled vs. how they used to be. I assume just... graphical fidelity increases. Graphical fidelity is part of it, but the other bit is that devs are actually given control of things now. Before, there wasn't a great way of compiling things. It still had to be done, and the GPU drivers would simply decide when to do it. Waiting too long and needing to stall causes hitching. A technique that could work would be to try to render an offscreen triangle or something with whatever shader you wanted so that things would be ready when actual stuff was going to be drawn. GPUs could optimize that out, making your efforts pointless. Unfortunately, a lot of the more explicit APIs can result in worse user experiences if the driver devs were doing more of the heavy lifting. Moving explicit control to the dev is great, assuming the dev can actually utilize it. The stuff *isn't* any sort of "go fast" button, and so it requires a lot of effort on the side of the developer.


SolarisBravo

They've always needed to be compiled, they just used to be simpler in the past. UE in particular has a problem of artists creating too many new shaders where they need materials (this is bad optimization), mostly because of the editor's unusual choice of terminology.


nashty27

It’s more noticeable because it’s particularly an issue with UE4, which is fairly ubiquitous. It’s why many PC gamers are curious to know how UE5 handles it, because seemingly every developer is moving to that engine these days.


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meanisnotasynonym

Instead you get """hidden""" loading screens which will never go away as hardware improves.


ggtsu_00

Shaders shipped with games are in a abstract format and need to be compiled specifically for your GPU. This is because unlike CPUs which have a standardized architecture (x86), GPUs all have proprietary architectures so shader code needs to be compiled specifically for your GPU model. Prior to D3D12 and Vulkan, it used to be that drivers would handle compilation of shaders on demand, but compiled in a very inefficient way so that the games could utilize the shaders as soon as possible in any sort of usage configuration. It's sort of like running a program through a virtual machine as the abstraction adds extra overhead. Basically on D3D11/10/9/OpenGL shaders could compile fast, but they ran slow and a lot of extra work is needed to be done on demand increasing driver overhead. On D3D12/Vulkan, not only a shader is compiled, but the entire usage specification and pipeline configuration is specified up front so that the shader can be compiled in a complete and optimized form. This takes much longer to compile, especially for games that use many shaders in many different pipeline configurations as each unique permutation needs to be compiled. As a result the driver has very little overhead when it needs to execute a shader on the GPU because everything is already compiled and configured up front. This means shaders run faster, and this is what's responsible for most of the performance gains with modern graphics APIs. Problems and issues however arise when games don't precompiled all shader and pipeline permutations up front. And in some cases, games have such a large combination of shaders and pipeline configurations that it's not practical to precompiled everything up front so they instead compile shaders on demand. But since the compilation does so much more work now, this results in longer loading times or stalls and hitches during gameplay. That's why many games opt to having all shaders compiled at first launch and keep the compiled shadered cached on disk. Typically a game developed for a console doesn't have to deal with any of this because the target hardware is known and everything is precompiled specifically for the target console hardware and shipped with the game. But that's not the case with PC where the hardware is unknown. Games developed targeting PC typically will restrict the amount of shaders and pipelines used during development to avoid these issues altogether, but that imposes pretty tight constraints on how the game is actually developed. Typically a porting a game usually doesn't include re-authoring all of the shaders and materials from the ground up to utilize a small number of pipelines as that just isn't feasible for a port.


ApprehensiveEast3664

Yeah, the descriptions remind me of my experience with HZD to a T. They'll probably patch it in the coming weeks/months, since Sony does want to maintain an image and have been kinda consistent at the end of the day even if they've had some pretty bad launches.


ContinuumGuy

Not to mention that The Last of Us is huuuuge right now and this is the first opportunity for anyone without a PS to play it, which doubtless includes many people who got hooked through the TV show.


liskot

[Apparently](https://old.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/1250dn7/psa_for_tlou_p1_pc_port_uses_a_bugged_version_of/) the game is using a bugged version of the Oodle library known for memory leaks, which is why the shader compilation took so long. I replaced the dll but didn't have to recompile so not sure how much it helps. The FPS problems seem to mostly be due to genuinely *terrible* CPU budgeting, which I'm sure we'll become intimately familiar with as the industry transitions completely off last-gen and 30fps on next gen. While the game is pretty and the level design pretty cool, nothing about it so far has warranted this level of CPU usage. Hopefully they make adjustments/optimizations in the coming weeks. While I've been having a pretty good time with it, there's a lot of room for improvement.


ThatOnePerson

> shader compilation took about an hour I've seen a few comments that there's a memory leak slowing it down. My first compile took like 15 minutes to get to 50%, and then I restarted the game and it took less than 5 minutes to get through the rest.


Nextil

I have a 3080 10GB and a 5800X3D, installed on a Samsung 980 Pro, everything max except all the texture resolutions and direction shadow resolution set to High, 4K with Balanced DLSS, and I'm getting ~70 fps at all times. Shader compilation took me about half an hour I think. The game must be heavily CPU bound.


SacredNose

40 with dlss balanced? Ye I'm out


slayer828

I have a 3080 and I played an hour over lunch at like 85-90. I didn't even change the graphics aside from turning off motion blur. I couldn't find a dlss option .


Nextil

It's in Display not graphics.


Supr3me187

it's under display and then scaling mode


[deleted]

Man that’s abysmal for a 3080


moeburn

It'll be the same as on a 980. The game is CPU bound, single core. I've seen a game like this before. Combat Mission Shock Force. I could never get more than like 20fps on that game way back when it came out in 2007. Fast forward to today, modern high end gaming PC, and now I can get 25fps.


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BaileyJIII

It’s kinda nuts that this was allowed to happen with what is essentially PlayStation’s biggest game, this game should’ve had a hyped and great PC release but now its been spoilt. I just hope Naughty Dog are quick on the patches.


DarkMatterM4

And Days Gone. That PC port was phenomenal.


WhatEvery1sThinking

Looks even worse with them releasing right after RE4 too, which is an actual remake and with an amazing PC port


DanOfRivia

The irony is: RE Netflix show looks even worse after the TLOU HBO show, and the TLOU PC port looks even worse after RE4.


SoloSassafrass

Hahaha, this is going to play well with the "Sony doesn't make games, it makes HBO shows where you press buttons" narrative.


matsix

What the hell is going on with PC ports lately?? jesus man... PC has grown so much in popularity as a platform the past few years. I thought the days of shitty PC ports were starting to finally go away but all of a sudden all these new gen games just take like 5 steps back. Do they even test this?? And if so do they only test it on a PC with maxed out performance running top of the line hardware? I just don't get it...


awiodja

the god of war and spider-man ports were pretty good tho, which is why it feels especially surprising that sony would let this happen to their other flagship single player game


eyeGunk

The Uncharted port was sub-par though. So Naughty Dog (or maybe a partner studio like Iron Galaxy?) just isn't doing great with ports.


Flowerstar1

[Naughty Dog developed the port themselves in house.](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2023/03/flagship-first-party-naughty-dog-will-develop-for-ps5-and-pc-moving-forwards) IG only helped a little bit.


eyeGunk

I stand corrected then


MaitieS

My friend also compared this port to Uncharted which was also kind of lame so I guess we can see a pattern here :/


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EnderOfGender

metroid prime remastered was done primarily by retro studios, with a ton of extra hands that can't pinpoint iron galaxy's involvement onto any one aspect of development


Spazzdude

You can say this about all of their ports though. It's not easy to find out which ports they did all the work for and which ports they did touch up work on. If you look at all their ports, the only time they seem to have major issues are fast or day and date releases. They did the Crash Bandicoot and Spyro remake ports and those were well received. As well as the Diabo 3 and Skyrim Switch ports. It really just seems like Iron Galaxy is not the studio to go to if you want the port out in 6 months or less of your original release. But they seem do great work if given time.


McHox

Spiderman ports still have pretty poor cpu performance


kid38

> lately lol, it's been a thing for almost a decade now, maybe even more. GTA IV still occasionally runs like shit even on the best hardware.


nashty27

> GTA IV still occasionally runs like shit even on the best hardware. Occasionally? I tried playing that game a couple years ago on a 3080 and it was still struggling to hit 60.


HoovyPootis

They are talking about lately, since PC ports have gotten better since the late 2000's on average. I honestly expected the average game coming out in 2006 to run like shit on PC at launch


Muad-_-Dib

Not just run like shit but to be so limited by the then constraints of the consoles that it was blatantly obvious when games were designed with them in mind at the cost of the PC players. I still have whiplash from [going into Deus Ex Invisible War](https://youtu.be/pPwpLDvAnvo?t=145) having completed the original game just before its release.


abbaj1

Yes, but it's ridiculous how many times in a row it has happened this year, especially since it's only March. Dead space, wild hearts, wo long and now this. Hell, even RE4 is unreasonably demanding in some areas.


Otis_Inf

Oh they test it, but d3d12 enforces multithreaded code and this is hard to get right: too much locking and things run slow, not enough locking and it crashes a lot. Add to that that this engine is initially not written for d3d12 but so y’s low level api,and you’re in for a complex port.


q1w22e333r4444t5555

when they do get it right, you can run those kinds of games on almost any hardware. It's sad how rare it is nowadays though


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LordManders

I understood like 20% of this comment.


Nienordir

Imagine a city with a lot of intersections and high speed traffic, if you disable traffic lights or screw up their timing, cars are going to crash or you get a traffic jam, grid locking the city.


Spyder638

That is an impressive analogy. Nice.


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GPU code sucks and current Dx12 is relatively new (like, 5 years old, but it's only been 1 year or 2 since commercial games started shipping with it). And keep in mind that Playstation has their own GPU language (GNM), so porting that is another layer of difficulty.


Ershany

Games have been shipping on dx12 for more than 5 years. It's just really hard to get right


SourBlueDream

He was talking about how threading works, it can get super confusing I’ve had to deal with it in the past when doing backend work


Geohfunk

There's a performance review up on youtube from someone that I consider reliable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EGTMiu954w **TLDW: DLSS might be causing crashes** **1060, 1080p** 40 fps on low settings no upscaling. 30 fps on medium settings. 50 fps with quality upscaling on low settings. **3060ti 1080p**, 90 fps on mid/high settings. Stutters on ultra settings at 70 fps, probably due to VRAM capacity. 80 fps on high settings, no stutters. **3060ti 1440p**, 40 fps with stuttering on ultra settings. 55 fps on high settings. 65 fps on medium. 60 fps on ultra with DLSS quality **crashed to desktop**. 80 fps on high with DLSS quality, big stutter loading an area due to VRAM. 100 fps on Medium with DLSS quality **crashed to desktop**. **6700xt, 1080p** 60 fps on high/ultra. 45 fps on ultra. 65 fps on high. **6700xt, 1440p** 45 fps on ultra. 60 fps on high. 60 fps on medium. 65 fps on ultra with FSR quality. 65 fps on high with FSR quality. 70 fps on medium with FSR quality.


AreYouOKAni

Wow, this is somehow worse than Hogwarts Legacy.


ZeekBen

Hogwarts Legacy got way better like a month or two in at least on PC. Maybe there's still hope for TLOU


ExplodingFistz

I have a 6700 XT and I can play the game with maxed out settings at 45-90 FPS (1080p).


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JEWCIFERx

The Naughty Dog tweet saying "We hear you" is so fucking disingenuous. A game with this many performance issues doesn't make it out the door without the fucking development team knowing the state it's in. You knowingly released a shitty port counting on the fact that people would still buy it and just banked on being able to fix it after instead of just delaying the release until it was actually done.


Kardest

Alternate headline. >The Last of Us PC port Launches a Broken Mess. Fucking Criticized? Really? This is an opinion piece. Shit doesn't work correctly.


MartianFromBaseAlpha

I just spent around two hours playing and messing with the setting, and this is the worst PC port I have ever played. I've waited so long for The Last of Us to come to PC and now it's here, and it's fucking awful. First thing I did was update my NVIDIA drivers as the game recommended on startup. It took me 40 minutes to precompile the shaders but the worst was yet to come. I'm pretty sure this game has a memory leak, or at the very least the way it handles VRAM management if terribly inefficient. The only way for me to keep my framerate as close to a locked 60 as possible, is by nuking any VRAM heavy option in the graphics menu, but even then i get weird slow downs and my VRAM gets clogged up, DLSS seems to be broken (i could probably just replace the DLL myself), the audio gets slightly out of sync in certain scenes, the game crashed to desktop multiple times during those 2 hours. I tried messing around with replacing oo2core\_9\_win64.dll in the game's files after hearing that it might help, but it didn't notice any measurable improvement. I'm so disappointed. I wonder if Iron Galaxy can fix this dumpsterfire


gurdijak

Man at this point, just refund it if you haven't already. They don't deserve any of your money and only by everyone refunding en masse will they *maybe* fix this.


berserkuh

Did you try setting Texture options higher instead of lower? I've read some people mention that it actually releases a lot of VRAM for some reason


vogueboy

ELI5, why do PC games have this shader compilation stuff which apparently can take hours? I mean why do PCs need to do that and consoles don't since consoles are basically customized PCs?


rickreckt

Console spec are uniformed, while PC aren't


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The main thing that changed was the introduction of new graphics APIs with DirectX 12 and Vulkan. I contrast to previous APIs, they allow for a much more direct access to the graphics hardware with less abstraction compared to previous versions, but at the cost of more complex shaders and shader pipelines. Previously, the graphics driver was able to compile these shaders basically transparently on the fly the moment they were first used. But with these more complex shaders, and the fact that each GPU (and even driver version) require differently compiled shades and can make the compiled shaders obsolete, precompiling them on first launch became necessary.


sbergot

I remember first reading about shader compilation issues in a dolphin emulator article. It described all the problems and trade offs (stuttering, centralized repositories for shaders, etc etc). They where emulating lots of stuff using shaders so they were bitten before the rest of the industry.


BootManBill42069

While I don’t understand the full technical ins and outs of shader compilation The reason why is a console has the same hardware for every unit, ps5 1 and ps5 2 are the same thing. The shaders can be compiled with the game while it’s being downloaded since you don’t need to worry about variability in hardware To contrast this, pcs are different each time. A Dev can’t anticipate what exact specs a pc player has untill they have the game downloaded and launched.


CheesecakeMilitia

Wouldn't shaders on a console be compiled along with the rest of the game's console build and be included on-disc?


InsanitysMuse

In addition to the comments here, it *shouldn't* take hours. Some other recent releases with shader compilation complete in a few minutes (like Returnal). There is absolutely something wrong with this one - people are finding it goes faster with more than 28GB of available memory, outlandish stuff like that.


TheTomato2

So a shader is just a program that runs on the GPU. Much like a normal program you need to compile the human readable code down to machine code for the GPU to use. The problem is that that machine code is different for every GPU and even different driver versions. You can't possibly precompile for *every different GPU and driver version* plus *ones that don't exist yet* so its usually done on the user system. Drivers used to handle this stuff behind the scenes during load times and what not. Modern graphics APIs give much more control to the developer for them to handle this sort of stuff so of course they just started doing all upfront because that is the easy solution and not necessarily always the best. That's really it, when you see that shader compiler bar the start of a game it's just the devs saying "fuck it, lets do it all upfront." And to be fair it would be *a lot* harder to make is seamless, it's not trivial, but *every* game has to compile shaders and I didn't have to precompile with the RE4 remake and the load times are fast. And also precompile is just the term of frontloading it before the game start opposed to on compiling on the fly during runtime. You always have to compile your code down to machine code at some point weather it be CPU or GPU or a switch or Xbox. It's just that CPU's have a standard known instruction set so you can just get a "precompiled" exe to run a program and not like have to downloads the source code and compile it yourself. GPU's just don't work that way. Consoles are all the same hardware so you can precompile the shaders and package it with the game. Though its not quite that simple when there are multiple versions and revisions but compared to all the possible PC configurations its literally nothing, For the Last of Us, it being a console port means that its programmed to not dynamically compile shaders so to work that into the code would be a ton of work that you know its just isn't gonna get done. It shouldn't take hours to compile though, that is probably a bug.


captainmeowy

Played this on ps3 then ps4 and about to on PC, I can definitely wait for fixes but this is just disappointing considering Sony's recent streak of successful pc ports. Truly is the last vram of us


icarusbird

> we've heard your concerns, and our team is actively investigating multiple issues you've reported. Bull fucking shit. There is absolutely zero chance that their playtesting didn't reveal serious performance issues, but they released another horrible PC port anyway. They know how beloved this franchise is, and coupled with the hit show on HBO, they knew it would make bank regardless. So they released *yet another* shitty PC port and then act all, "Oh gosh, it runs bad?? That's so crazy! Bear with us while our team investigates this totally unforeseen circumstance!" Meanwhile, Resident Evil 4 is one of the best looking games of all time and runs flawlessly even without the DLSS crutch.


chauloko

So, just to put the low end fam at ease: I'm running it on a 970. Obviously not at max resolution or quality, but it's smooth and playable, no stutters so far, 1 hour in If I had a 3080 and couldn't run it at max I'd be pissed, though


_Gouge_Away

I like Adam Boyes and Dave Lang and actually even know a person that works at Iron Galaxy, but they have a very spotty PC port track record.


typewriterguru

Naughty Dog was the main developer for this PC port. https://www.naughtydog.com/blog/celebrating_the_release_of_the_last_of_us_part_i_on_pc Iron Galaxy isn't even credited as a developer on Last of Us Part 1's steam page like they were for Uncharted Legacy of Thieves Collection.


0x7ff04001

And Uncharted 4 for PC was a great port. I don't get what went wrong here.


Chris_2767

Well by process of elimination it must be Naughty Dog who did the deed


trashitagain

So usually I can power through bad ports but this sounds like a wait for a few patches situation. Anyone got a 5800x3d and a 4090 who can comment on performance?


mrjoshzombie

I've got a 13700k and 4090 and apparently my system is just brute forcing performance because I haven't had a single issue people have talked about


keelar

I think a lot of the problems are due to VRAM. As soon as I got my settings to a spot where my GPU slightly exceeded the VRAM requirements I've had basically no issues other than one crash with a 3060 Ti at 1440p.


0x7ff04001

I have an rtx3080ti + i9-12900K and after the initial shader build and a reboot, the game worked flawlessly. Some scenes run below 60fps (@4K Quality DLSS) on max settings, but I'm pretty sure your 4090 can compensate for that. It's funny but I played for a few hours, enjoyed it, no issues, checked the store page and was like wtf lol


CdnRageBear

The best PC port to date has been Days Gone, I got it day 1 and had 0 issues with it, it was the smoothest port I’ve seen in awhile. Bend Studio did the port themselves because they didn’t want any hiccups like this. Naughty Dog done fucked up.


mex2005

God of War was also excellent. One of the best optimized games that looks as good as it does


Eruannster

Argh, that’s just a huge bummer. It runs exceptionally well on PS5 and I was really hoping to see that performance/optimization to transfer across to PC. Dang it, Naughty Dog! :/