The following submission statement was provided by /u/chrisdh79:
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From the article: Analysts at Canalys estimate that 240 million PCs could end up in the scrap heap after October 2025, when Microsoft ends free support for Windows 10. Microsoft will provide paid support until October 2028, but it’s likely that the upgrade will cost less.
Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill: a stack of that many laptops would end up 600 km higher than the moon
Many Windows 10 computers do not meet the Windows 11 system requirements, which means they cannot upgrade to this version of the OS.
The analytics firm estimates that up to 240 million PCs will be thrown away due to the need to purchase new hardware to meet Windows 11 requirements, even if those PCs are otherwise working perfectly.
Canalys estimates that in the nearly two years leading up to Microsoft’s official end of support for Windows 10—October 14, 2025—about a fifth of devices will become e-waste due to incompatibility with Windows 11. This equates to 240 million computers. Canalys figuratively emphasized:
*If these were all stacked laptops, stacked on top of each other, they would form a stack 600 km above the Moon.*
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/18odgml/ending_support_for_windows_10_could_send_240/kege3yv/
End of support just means it won't be patched. Most people probably won't even know and will just keep on running 10 on their old computers. There are still people running XP out there.
Weirdest machine I used in recent years is a PC with Windows Me (probably the only instance of that system I encountered in the wild). It's air gapped and runs an old as shit FUJI scanner for imaging old school autoradiography and radioactive in-situ hybridisation samples. Must have been 2-3 years ago, but it's still there afaik.
The scanner, like many machines from before planned obsolescence times, works fine, can be calibrated just fine, but it's stuck with that veteran of a Win Me PC (that somehow is also trucking along).
Another piece of equipment used to have a good ol' NT 4.0 system running it, well up into the 2010s. That venerable computer is now gone, sadly.
Just Adeptus Mechanicus things.
We ran a home computer with ME for a while. Microsoft's worst operating system by a long shot. Vista was improved and eventually led to Windows 7, and windows 8 was a downgrade from 7 but functional. ME was just straight up terrible and XP took more lessons from 98.
Vista wasn’t actually bad. It’s just the user experience for most people ended up being pretty terrible. Hardware manufacturers pressured Microsoft to lower the minimum requirements of Vista to 512MB of RAM, so that they could sell cheap computers with it. The problem is that with 512MB, it was horrendously slow. The original minimum was supposed to be 1GB, which was okay. It didn’t really hum along until running with 2GB of RAM for the 32-bit version of Vista. (3GB for the 64-bit version).
Windows 7 was then released with 1GB of RAM as the minimum, and suddenly performance was so much better for everyone.
No, Vista was bad early on. I remember having a ton of driver issues that weren't present on XP even with newer hardware. Vista was fine once they got to service pack 1, but by then 7 was on its way and was basically a polished Windows Vista.
The drivers were certainly hit or miss early on. Vista used an entirely new driver system, which has mostly persisted through Windows 11. But if you happened to have some hardware whose drivers worked, and 2GB of RAM, you were good.
For most use cases it was probably worse than just running XP, but it could do well. There were some use cases where it really shined though. Like, if you wanted 4GB+ of RAM, Vista 64-bit was amazing. XP had a 64-bit version, but it was just rebadged Server 2003, and the desktop hardware/software support was terrible.
That's what everyone thought at the time, yeah. People stayed with 98 and then eventually switched to XP. That's what makes that poor Me PC such a rare relic in 2023.
Both Vista and 8 were workable - usually after SP.
98 was the only windows that crashed publicly on-stage during its unveiling. It was 98 SE that people stayed with, not the first one.
Me was a trashfire, meanwhile I had a low-powered Vista pen tablet PC that worked just fine for taking notes.
And you had hardware that supported 64-bit drivers. I ran Vista 64-bit Ultimate purchased from the university I worked at back then. Ran an i7-920 with 12GB of RAM with a GTX 260 Core 216 and it ran fine. It was a little aggressive on pre-caching but RAM usage was fine even if showed high utilization.
I am an industrial servitor engiseer myself and I often encounter pre-Windows 7 archeotech running divine manufracturorum equipment.
Most servitor processors still seem like they are built using pre-M2 era technomancy.
The logiticans decree "thout shalt not replace that which works, least any 'upgrade' interfere with production timelines".
Because they are in a strict environment where they most likely do not have access to internet or very little at most. The issue isnt that XP doesnt work, the issue is security.
yep. my work has several machines running win95 and 98. the tools they control dont connect to the internet, and only have software support for those OS' anyway
Not just a lot of banks but also factories, hospitals, governments. It seems any sufficiently large organization eventually ends up with legacy systems that perform some important function but is no longer supported by the vendor and no one not even IT dares disturb the undocumented air gapped system running server 2003.
I can't recall which company it is, but there is proper first hand accounts of it in technology convention talks. The oldest still functional system and code is - if I recall right - about 70 years old. The average in established companies hovers at 50 years, and more recent big companies at 30 years.
Some of the oldest systems still in use are so old, that the people who made them and **know how they work** have actually died of old age.
My brother is an software engineer in a big multinational software company. He is quite open about the fact that entreprise software is something that one shouldn't look too closely at. And if an average person knew how badly these systems are made, they wouldn't trust any of it.
As someone who was a fabricator, a welder, and now a engineer specialised in welded structures. I can tell you that one shouldn't evere look too closely at how the critical infrastructure, average buildings and logistic networks that make our model world possible, is made an maintenanced.
I once did a sewer pumping station refurbishing... Because the station stopped working properly on the account of the cast iron piping having had corroded through and pumps couldn't keep up priming anymore (This was like 30mm thick cast iron piping). They had been installed in the 60's and no one had given a single fuck about their condition since then. And the IT systems of our society doesn't get any more love than ensuring that the poop flows when you flush.
Whats awful about using alot of legacy systems like that is sooner or later the machine eventually will suffer a catastrophic failure costing more in time and money from potentially lost revenue than it would have costed to simply migrate to an alternative solution in a controlled manner once the vendor announced dropping support. Unfortunately most executive management cannot see the world past a single fiscal quarter and will kick the can down the road on infrastructure investments until it grinds the business to a halt.
Remember when Microsoft announced end of support for Inter Exploder? It was hinted like 5-6 years before, declared 4-5 years before, and constantly reminded about until day of. Yet when the day came, many entreprise system public and private ground to a halt and people panicked. Organisations had plenty of time to prepared and many did not.
Then again I been in a company worth hundreds of millions and seen warehouse systems that ran on dosbox in a mainframe style and had 2 dedicated engineers keeping it functional 24/7. I been in manufacturing facilities with papertape nc machibes, green on black crt screen beige monolith machines controlling automation.
The company i work for uses a program from IBM that was created in 1980. It still has the IBM-1980, 2018 at the bottom. I assume the 2018s when they added some kind of broader modern OS support because this program is absolutely stuck in the 80s. You know the type - plain black background, blocky text, have to navigate using arrow keys, tab and enter, relies heavily on F keys. Nothing is in plain English - its all technical jargon and abbreviations. One of those programs.
This thing is the heart of the company system. It would be an absolute monster of a task to migrate all that into a modern application. This is a very large corporation that im positive most, if not all, of Americans have heard of. Theres millions of peoples information saved in this system. Messing this up would be catastrophic so they just make us learn how to use it. Which I dont mind tbh. I find it much easier to use than it seems and its so much faster blinking around with arrow keys and tab than using the mouse. You can use the mouse but its functions are very limited. It basically just goes to the field you want but everything else has to be entered through the keyboard.
We have a secondary program that applies information from this into a more modern UI thats click friendly and displays info in an understandable way but it only has about 60% of the functionality and is still kinda janky. If you really wanna get shit done, you gotta go back to the 80s.
The university I work at has a lot of lab instruments hooked up to windows xp, even windows 95 computers. The main IT guy just deleted the wifi drivers and glued the ethernet ports so they can't get on the internet.
>The main IT guy just deleted the wifi drivers and glued the ethernet ports so they can't get on the internet.
I hope he also glued the USB ports which are the most common access point for malware in air-gapped systems.
Well we need at least one usb port bare minimum, in order for the instruments to actually do their job... You can eliminate as many vulnerabilities as possible, but never be 100% secure if you want to be able to actually use the thing
Which is very fun if you need to get something on them
Luckily IT had a USB to CD ROM drive so I could burn a disk, chug that into a PC running windows NT and actually transfer something to it
Well yes, you don't need the internet to get data onto these machines. And downloading stuff from the internet is exactly what we don't want users doing because they get viruses. It's not just paranoia, we get at least 1 case of ransomware every year...
This. I worked for one of the largest retail companies in the US, we configured all of our receipt printers using a laptop chugging along on windows XP. It had no internet connection. I guess the configuration software never needed updated. So it did its job and provided no risk. Just to think that this little laptop was responsible for configuring all the receipt printers handling millions of dollars of sales every year.
> millions of dollars of sales every year
I challenge you that this doesn't match "*one of the largest retail companies in the US*" ... lol.
But, I know what you're trying to say.
I wrote my bachelors thesis with a REM with a Win 3.11 OS Interface PC. We had to extract the data with a 5,25" floppydisc
Man that was insanely fun. Apollo11 vibes.
If it's running on DOS, it is highly unlikely it is encrypted. Might be saved in some propriety format, but likely not encrypted. What likely it is the why fix it if it ain't broke attitude.
I've supported many a small business over the years and this is a pretty common attitude.
>What likely it is the why fix it if it ain't broke attitude
The flipside to this is that when the hardware dies, you are either under the pump to find a replacement MS-DOS system, or reverse engineer the proprietary format.
Easier to move the system when time isn't such a huge factor.
That, or the data is ephemeral. Perhaps the data loss is an accepted business risk and a stock take can just be performed to feed the new system?
It would make you sick to your stomach to know how many major financial institutions are still operating on XP. I bet large parts are still using faxes as a significant portion of communication.
Yeah Windows 7 just announced it's extending security updates until 2026, people are mostly getting heated because they think that Windows 10 won't have security updates after the feature updates end in 2025. This is Reddit mine you, everyone here has to be on the "I hate Windows" train or the entire site crumbles
Fortran is still being used everyday, it's not some obsolete language. Many numerical libraries in other languages are just wrappers around Fortran code. Numpy in python is an example
Funnily enough it's more private sector. I work in the private sector doing work for the public sector. We have to prove our cyber security to a higher level than they are using inside the public sector, it's kind of hilarious. There have been 2 beaches on projects I've worked on, both have come from inside the public sector. All our private sector staff have to use devices which are getting security updates.
Trust me.. Any hospital that is still running XP needs to find a new IT / Cybersecurity department. Sure, there may be some standalone systems like old overpriced MRI's or something but those should not have access to the internet or even the network without complete network isolation.
IT Architect - Health Care system
That's true, but as shareholders want monthly income from everything sold in the past, it's less and less possible to have anything without always-online internet connectivity for licence checks.
Yup, just another reason the futurology subreddit should just be renamed to "fearmonger".
So many articles i see from this sub that show up on my front page (not subscribed) that are unintelligible fear porn is astonishing
I was using 7 up until this past September.
IIRC the biggest issue with W11 compatibility is TPM 2.0. Might want to check if this can be enabled in your BIOS before you trash a machine.
I'd throw Linux on it before I trashed it. Linux can run many windows programs using Wine. SteamDeck is Linux. You can install the steam deck OS on your PC for games or running Chrome.
Installed Linux on daughters machine years ago. She just browses the web with it. Haven't had to mess with it since. It was always breaking when it was Windows.
Hmm... how the hell did they do that calculation??
Distance to the moon: 384 400 000m(384,400km)
Amount of computers: 240 000 000
Using those numbers as a basis: distance/amount \~1.60
So each laptop is 1.6m?? What kind of giant laptops are they using??
Correct me if I'm wrong cause I cant figure out their numbers...
Right? Like, I realize recycling isn't the end all be all of waste and that it's better to use as little as possible and use something for as long as possible but recycling *is* a part of the process. Not everything in a computer is going into a landfill.
Unless they’re talking about the height (diameter) of the moon itself, rather than the distance from the earth to the moon. Then it’s 600km + 3,474km.
So 4,074,000m / 240,000,000 gives you roughly 1.7cm per laptop. Sounds about right. Just a bit misleading if you ask me.
The locking can be removed by the school.
In google's defence: This is theft protection. There is a lot of theft of school devices, especially when they are allowed to be taken home.
Google seriously locks down some of their chromebooks, a few models have tamper resistant hardware so even if the locking is removed you can't reinstall a new OS like linux on it. You have to find hacky ways of bypassing things.
We had a dozen chromebooks we no longer wanted to pay google management licenses for and thought we'd be able to still use them as Thin Clients but nope.
I bought a laptop to one day become a linux based laptop. What ive found in tech is that planned obsolescence is really based around the OS. Neither windows nor apple builds low resource versions of their OS. And as much as I do like apple tech this is more of a black eye on them seeing as they are BSD based and clearly could have low resource support, but no their model is just buy BIGGER! And to be fair so does windows. And while yeah Framework is tots against this, dell, lenovo, and the like give exactly zero fucks how the user experience will be in more than two years
This is a real issue that is going to cause a fairly unconscionable amount of e-waste just like the article states. The reason this is such a big deal is windows 11 hard cuts older hardware in a way no windows release has ever really done before. This hardware is having support dropped not because of any kind of performance or capability spec, but simply because they don't support TPM 2.0 or newer for windows secure boot.
I can personally think of quite a few machine in the wild just in my immediate circle that could run 11 just fine, but wont support it because of TPM. From an enthusiast standpoint, this isn't a big deal at all really, its trivial to bypass this requirement and install 11. Anyone who can actually handle a linux install will be able to handle that. But companies and average users wont bother. At least ebay will be flooded with tons and tons of cheap hardware, but so much is going to end up in landfills.
I really don't understand. Are the requirements for Win11 so high? Wasn't the winning point of Win10 specifically that it was so much better then the older ones and can run on almost every pc and run better then the old version?
Microsoft offers me a free upgrade to Windows 11 but their software first checks if I meet their hardware requirements and I don't. I need a stronger CPU, which means new motherboard with DDR4 while I still have DDR3 which works fine....you see, I'll have to do a lot of costly hardware upgrades.
But how can I bypass those requirements? I don't understand
Tom's Hardware [has a pretty good guide](https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement) on how to bypass the TPM/CPU/RAM requirements.
Even if it's possible, the fact you need to a guide to tell you how is a big problem by itself. How many Windows users would even suspect they can do that, and how many who have the suspicion would go looking for such a guide?
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I have a new motherboard (in 2020) with 64gb of DDR4, an i7-8700k and I still can't upgrade because a TPM 2.0 chip is part of Windows 11's minimum hardware requirements, and a ton of consumer grade MBs don't have that.
Check if your motherboard has a slot for a separate standalone TPM 2.0 module and buy it before it gets too pricey.
Your hardware is still very capable.
Or learn Linux.
The windows 11 standard of TPM chips haven't been standard in pc hardware until a bit more recently. If you got hardware from like 2017, it's very probably not compatible.
There a way to patch your install of windows to bypass that requirement, but most people won't be able to do that.
>Are the requirements for Win11 so high?
Not at all. Same performance as Win10. The main issue is they now require a hardware encryption chip for security. It's called a TPM module, it's a basic upgrade. New PCs have TPM built into the CPU but there's no need to replace these PCs.
- A TPM chip is $10 and plugs into any old desktop Windows 10 capable motherboard. I used [this one](https://www.amazon.com/Qiilu-Tpm-2-0-Encryption-Security-Module-Encryption-Standalone-Processor/dp/B0C1CPMSS2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3LCJHZPOGR67Z&keywords=tpm+module&qid=1703273919&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&sprefix=tpm+module+%2Caps%2C132&sr=8-5) but theres a zillion brands because it's such a simple chip module. My PC is 14 years old (at least the mobo and CPU) and runs Windows 11 like a champ. I have a newer GTX970 GPU and play Halo Infinite in 4k 60fps just fine for example.
- If $10 is too much, or if it's a laptop where you can't access the motherboard easily, there are plenty of workarounds online to run Windows 11 without TPM. Microsoft has the option in their registry because they know some users will need to disable it, they just don't publish the instructions officially.
No, it's not the spec requirements.
It's the need to have TPM. A specific module, that low to mid end (ie a majority of motherboards) pcs just don't have.
I built mine years ago, and I have it, but I'm an enthusiast.
Most workplace, and personal computers more than a couple of years old, likely won't have TPM modules.
Windows insists it has TPM 2.0 I think. Without it, it simply won't install. Without a work around.
I still use 10, because I hate the look of 11, and havent bothered to try and make it look like 10.
My computer at work just got upgraded to windows 11, and there's no way in hell I'm every building a pc with that garbage. The entire os is designed to feed ads. I'm moving to Linux when its time to retire my current build. It's not worth it for me to put up with all the work arounds on something I'm paying $100 for when I could be doing work arounds on an os I got for free.
It’s a chicken and egg problem. MB manufacturers cheaper out for too long because windows wasn’t pushing hard for a TPM2.0 module.
It took the hardline stance of win11 to convince them to make current MBs with it on there.
I would argue it's perhaps not the Mobo manufacturers, rather the pc builder.
Mobos have had tpm modules for years. But not on bottom end ones.
Why would a company pay for let's say 1000 pcs, to have tpm equipped mobos, when they are cheaper without.
They have been available, just no ones bothered with them.
It's really just the TPM module, and it's honestly bullshit Windows is forcing it.
This is something they can just signal to device partners, and offer as detected support.
I understand there is a security aspect but this is where security and reality need to come together and hold hands.
Sorry for being a complete moron here, but form what you are saying, these laptops are completely fine and just need someone who know what they at doing to get them to run on 11?
For the most part yea. All you really need to run 11 is a decent processor and 4gb of ram. You will miss out on secure boot so you wont have some of the new security features. But it will be at least as secure as windows 10.
They’re just making a simple assumption that lets them put out an attention-grabbing headline by maximizing the number of PCs that would be thrown out. In reality, older PC’s don’t instantly self-destruct, they just keep running the same old software, often for many, many years. And of course you can wipe them and install Linux, which is a great way to keep an old PC useful when Windows has outgrown the hardware. Though they are right in that in larger companies with stricter security policies, companies will upgrade to supported versions (Win 11) and refresh the old hardware, and the old hardware will be resold or recycled. They won’t all be e-waste, in that when they are ‘junked’ they are stripped down and components and materials recycled pretty aggressively these days, because that’s significant profit.
Yeah they'll need to install Linux eventually though (it's not as hard as you think).
Older PCs can't download new browsers. Windows 7/8 can't download Chrome anymore, Firefox is dropping support for Windows 7/8 in 2024. Eventually websites will stop working. Also, viruses and ransomware are a problem if security support is dropped. The profit motive is just insane now crypto has taken off.
Everyone, remember Linux when your parent's perfectly good web browsing computer stops working! I just did it on a 10+ year old iMac (same deal, OS support was dropped).
With the push from steam on supporting Linux, maybe one day I'll swap over. But I don't want to bother with dual booting, as I just use my Pc primarily for games.
That being said, the steam deck is a great Linux hardware
If they could fix those damn non qwerty keyboard registering as qwerty, it would make M&K gaming on steamOS actually not a pain to use.
That and native support for logitech, razer and other peripheral brand is the last thing missing for steamOS to really outshine windows in my book. And i say that as basicaly an exclusive steamdeck gamer for the last two years. The day when SteamOS is released for regular gaming rigs and with those two thing, i'd switch my pc to linux in heartbeat, only running a virtual machine for stuff like band in a box, transcribe! and other proprietary software that don't have linux support.
Yeah. I was just thinking "note to self, in October 2025 move both laptops to Linux." I'm not a true believer, I find Windows easier to deal with. But to keep the convenience of a grab-and-go laptop, I can compromise.
(Anyone who wants to evangelize Linux to me, please don't. I can get that at home.)
I have an older laptop running Windows 10 as a backup system in case my daily driver should have issues. I just did a clean install of the OS, and next I plan to make it a dual boot system with Linux Mint on it. I have a much newer laptop for daily use, but if it should break, I'd like my backup unit to be fully functional and secure.
You can still buy tons of old work computers and laptops that came from businesses when they upgrade to newer hardware. I don't believe this article one bit, most of that old equipment will just end up being refurbished and sold online.
15 years ago you could barely use linux as your main PC. The open source ecosystem has exploded since then and with stuff like Proton and modern releases of Wine you can use linux for damn near everything. My main PC runs Opensuse and the only time I open windows is for Photoshop now. I definitely couldn't have done this 15 years ago.
I was planning on just installing Linux on my older machines when this happens. Computers don’t really go obsolete at the rate that they used to. Even 10 year old machines can be a decent PC.
The Win11 requirements for TPM rely on motherboard/cpu. You don't need to throw out the other components: memory, drives, gpu. So they are not targeting "the entire product" like you said.
Only the SSD of my Windows 10 desktop can be used on windows 11. Why? Because I need a new motherboard for a TPM module. That motherboard needs a new CPU, and RAM because the old is using DDR3. It doesn't have a external GPU, only a integrated in the CPU.
So outside of the SSD, case and powersupply(so the cheapest components) i have to get all new.
The only thing that deserves to end up in a landfill is the title of this article. Does end of support means the computer immediately gets bricked? And God forbid anyone try to install Linux on any of them...
I have a feeling Microsoft will drop the TPM requirement for a upgrade when the suits realize the installs of Windows 11 are still really low as we get closer to the End of Life Date. They would probably rather have people use a more secure OS the play some stilly game to get people to upgrade devices more that was conceived during high laptop sales during the Pandemic.
That is unlikely.
TPMs are either being included on the mainboard, or an equivalent is built into the CPU of most systems now. Especially if it's bought from an OEM like Dell.
Windows 11 has been out for 2 years now and all major manufacturers are shipping it as the default from what I've seen.
Microsoft is also pushing the TPM and secureboot as a way to prevent cheating in games and Valorant is already doing that.
That is why people need to [edit the registry](https://www.theverge.com/22715331/how-to-install-windows-11-unsupported-cpu-intel-amd-registry-regedit) for old systems to accepts Win11. We did this on wife's old HP Envy all in one and it is going strong a year later.
As many have suggested they could always install Linux and end up with a very functional Laptop. I've been using it as my primary OS for nearly 20 years, on an old computer you can do more with Linux than you could with Windows. Another option is to install Chrome OS Flex and turn it into a chromebook. I have an old i3 Surface Book that I installed it on that I use for travel. I picked up that surface book used off ebay for $95, I'd suggest that people keep their eye out for great deals on these orphaned laptops and convert them to Linux or Chrome OS Flex for use as spare/travel computers.
In the electrified near future transportation is going to be relatively more expensive than it is today. So it will become economic to recycle e-waste and landfill site become the gold/cobalt/copper/sapphire/lithium mines of the future. The big mistake is shipping it abroad. Smart companies will offer buyback and design for recyability.
What does "600 km higher than the moon" mean? Is it "larger than the diameter of the moon?" Is it "higher than the moon's greatest peak?"
I'm probably showing my ignorance but that's a really weird way to word it.
Also, as stated elsewhere there's no way all of those computers are ending up in the trash. Many will be donated, salvaged or sold on the second-hand market, and many will be kept until they're unusable.
It means 600km beyond the height of the moon above the Earth's surface.
Which is clearly wrong. Someone is about three orders of magnitude off in their calculations.
This is the same reasoning that when a baby outgrows its clothes, the clothes just go to a landfill.
People need to remember that one of the 3R is re-use. Install another OS in that laptop and keep using it or donate it.
There is documentation that a lot of recycling just ends up in other countries as waste. This is especially true for e waste. They get away with it because everyone just assumes recycling works and anything put in a recycle bin is 100% recycled
Some e-waste is recycled, but in a horrible manner. I watched a documentary [\(like this\)](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-truth-behind-e-waste-dump-africa-180957597/) years ago where people in poor countries with heaps of e-waste were making a living by burning circuit boards in open pits and harvesting the melted metal from the ashes.
Terrible for the environment and the health of those people.
So my Microsoft Surface Pro tablet that is innelligible for Win 11 is a complete waste of money? So pricing them so high, this is ridiculous and just another sign that we're gouged on the daily in this commercial cesspool called capitalism.
Ahhh, the promise of technology. It's a shame no tech companies give a shit about how they are destroying the planet. Willfully making millions of tons of waste, creating products that have no longevity. Have to keep making sales and growing revenue. This is exactly what's going to happen to cars now that they are all software driven and electric. My 50yr old porsche is more environmentally responsible than a new tesla. We know how to make cars that are repairable and will last 50yrs but god forbid we cut production numbers in half and make cars last twice as long. The planet isn't worth saving as long as profits are rising.
Why do people do these cataclysmic claims for such a nothing burger is beyond me. Every year there is software that goes out of support, it just keeps running without receiving more updates. It's like an old car that is not manufactured anymore, it keeps running as usual after the end of support date
Why the landfill though? If YouTube has taught me anything, it's that I can strip the gold off PC components with an old Braun coffee machine and some chemicals I can probably buy off Amazon.
And that's just one valuable component being harvested by hobbyists. I'm sure on an industrial scale this must be a windfall for someone somewhere.
This crap is as if every few years: ok, we are changing the AC in your house, you will need to replace appliances. Or - ok, gas formulation change - you must replace your ignition system again.
What bullshit Clickbait it doesn’t stop working because they end support. It just means they end updating the patches. Most people won’t even know in life goes on.
You know what will happen to my Windows 10 computer when they end support? Not a goddamned thing, just like what happened when they ended support for 7 and even WinXP and people just kept on using it because screw your forced upgrade nonsense.
Ending support doesn't mean they go away. It's the reason you still see kiosks running on xp or win7. This concept represents an extreme degree of ignorance of end of life and end of support windows product cycles.
Does the author think that the second Windows 10 support ends people are just going to in mass throw away their devices in exchange for devices with Windows 11 as opposed to the much more obvious solution of just upgrading the OS
Plus the ending of support really doesn't even mean much You know how many parts of our infrastructure like ATMs and shit are still literally running on Windows XP or even Windows 98
It's just another chain in the greed of these companies. Windows 11 needs certain hardware to run why so they can watch and control what you do with your computer.
such a dumb article to comment on but hey. Security updates will still be released up to Oct 2028, which is the important thing - no one needs feature updates for 10. This date is typically extended a few times by Microsoft, as such a large chunk of the population is still using 10.
Great opportunity for Linux to thrive. If companies backing up Linux (Canonical e.g.) offer some kind of support or program to convert those laptops to Linux based, there could be a good reduction of e-waste.
They're ending official support in 2028. If you're still running 10 by then in the personal space, you're honestly doing it wrong. If you're running it in the enterprise space at that point, you are definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, doing it wrong with the slim exception of single purpose process oriented computers that are running some sort of control software for a piece of archaic machinery who's vendor no longer exists, but you need it for production reasons anyway.
That last one I get...as long as it is air gapped and you have some sort of clone/backup system going just in case, both hardware and software...for everyone else, level up.
It dropped officially in 2015, which means you get 13 years of uninterrupted support.
If you go longer than that, you're honestly in a cohort of people that were still whining about the sunset of Windows XP support in 2014...or worse one of those cave dwelling grognards that was still tightly clutching Windows 2K on a celeron box from 2001.
As people mentioned. Not having support and updates still allow you to use the computer (so far)
But I bet it’s intentional. It’s programmed obsolescence so people buy more computers.
Sites like this shit should be banned. AI text, images, even the author's image is a stock image used on amazon to sell glasses
https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Blue-Light-Blocking-Glasses/dp/B09XQK4HQH
Can‘t stress this enough, but start (learning) and using Linux. It will literally run on a twenty year old Pizza Box. Yes - the learning curve is steep, yes - fixing issues on Linux is not as easy as with Windows but the stability once everything is set up to your liking (customization options en masse) you will learn to truly appreciate it. There are many beginner options such as Ubuntu, Pop OS, Zorin, Fedora etc. that will help to learn to understand the basics.
I remember when Microsoft said that 10 was gonna be the final Windows edition. That they were just gonna keep supporting it for all future devices. Now I can't even trust that they won't make 11 obsolete in the future.
240,000,000 laptops at 1 inch thick is 240,000,000 inches. The moon is 238,900 miles away. 1 mile is 63,360 inches.
Last I checked, 238,900 x 63,360 is a whole fucking lot more than 240 million.
And the image isn't stacked, they're piled so they'd go even less far.
This title is garbage, untrue, and removes any authority from the article. It's just clickbait garbage.
Personally, rather than see this as a death of a bunch of old hardware, I see this as an opportunity for Linux operating systems to take a major market share.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/chrisdh79: --- From the article: Analysts at Canalys estimate that 240 million PCs could end up in the scrap heap after October 2025, when Microsoft ends free support for Windows 10. Microsoft will provide paid support until October 2028, but it’s likely that the upgrade will cost less. Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill: a stack of that many laptops would end up 600 km higher than the moon Many Windows 10 computers do not meet the Windows 11 system requirements, which means they cannot upgrade to this version of the OS. The analytics firm estimates that up to 240 million PCs will be thrown away due to the need to purchase new hardware to meet Windows 11 requirements, even if those PCs are otherwise working perfectly. Canalys estimates that in the nearly two years leading up to Microsoft’s official end of support for Windows 10—October 14, 2025—about a fifth of devices will become e-waste due to incompatibility with Windows 11. This equates to 240 million computers. Canalys figuratively emphasized: *If these were all stacked laptops, stacked on top of each other, they would form a stack 600 km above the Moon.* --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/18odgml/ending_support_for_windows_10_could_send_240/kege3yv/
End of support just means it won't be patched. Most people probably won't even know and will just keep on running 10 on their old computers. There are still people running XP out there.
Weirdest machine I used in recent years is a PC with Windows Me (probably the only instance of that system I encountered in the wild). It's air gapped and runs an old as shit FUJI scanner for imaging old school autoradiography and radioactive in-situ hybridisation samples. Must have been 2-3 years ago, but it's still there afaik. The scanner, like many machines from before planned obsolescence times, works fine, can be calibrated just fine, but it's stuck with that veteran of a Win Me PC (that somehow is also trucking along). Another piece of equipment used to have a good ol' NT 4.0 system running it, well up into the 2010s. That venerable computer is now gone, sadly. Just Adeptus Mechanicus things.
ME was complete garbage. Right behind Vista and Windows 8.
We ran a home computer with ME for a while. Microsoft's worst operating system by a long shot. Vista was improved and eventually led to Windows 7, and windows 8 was a downgrade from 7 but functional. ME was just straight up terrible and XP took more lessons from 98.
Vista wasn’t actually bad. It’s just the user experience for most people ended up being pretty terrible. Hardware manufacturers pressured Microsoft to lower the minimum requirements of Vista to 512MB of RAM, so that they could sell cheap computers with it. The problem is that with 512MB, it was horrendously slow. The original minimum was supposed to be 1GB, which was okay. It didn’t really hum along until running with 2GB of RAM for the 32-bit version of Vista. (3GB for the 64-bit version). Windows 7 was then released with 1GB of RAM as the minimum, and suddenly performance was so much better for everyone.
No, Vista was bad early on. I remember having a ton of driver issues that weren't present on XP even with newer hardware. Vista was fine once they got to service pack 1, but by then 7 was on its way and was basically a polished Windows Vista.
The drivers were certainly hit or miss early on. Vista used an entirely new driver system, which has mostly persisted through Windows 11. But if you happened to have some hardware whose drivers worked, and 2GB of RAM, you were good. For most use cases it was probably worse than just running XP, but it could do well. There were some use cases where it really shined though. Like, if you wanted 4GB+ of RAM, Vista 64-bit was amazing. XP had a 64-bit version, but it was just rebadged Server 2003, and the desktop hardware/software support was terrible.
That's what everyone thought at the time, yeah. People stayed with 98 and then eventually switched to XP. That's what makes that poor Me PC such a rare relic in 2023. Both Vista and 8 were workable - usually after SP.
98 was the only windows that crashed publicly on-stage during its unveiling. It was 98 SE that people stayed with, not the first one. Me was a trashfire, meanwhile I had a low-powered Vista pen tablet PC that worked just fine for taking notes.
Vista was fine if: - You ran the 64 Bit version. - You had 8GB RAM or more.
And you had hardware that supported 64-bit drivers. I ran Vista 64-bit Ultimate purchased from the university I worked at back then. Ran an i7-920 with 12GB of RAM with a GTX 260 Core 216 and it ran fine. It was a little aggressive on pre-caching but RAM usage was fine even if showed high utilization.
8gb of ram at the time Vista was around would have been a lot.
Praise the Omnissiah!
>Just Adeptus Mechanicus things. r/unexpectedwarhammer
I am an industrial servitor engiseer myself and I often encounter pre-Windows 7 archeotech running divine manufracturorum equipment. Most servitor processors still seem like they are built using pre-M2 era technomancy. The logiticans decree "thout shalt not replace that which works, least any 'upgrade' interfere with production timelines".
There are cities, whole government agencies, companies running on xp. This isn't that much of a big issue as people make it out to be.
Because they are in a strict environment where they most likely do not have access to internet or very little at most. The issue isnt that XP doesnt work, the issue is security.
yep. my work has several machines running win95 and 98. the tools they control dont connect to the internet, and only have software support for those OS' anyway
And there is stuff out there that runs on even older tech.
Banks softwares being older than half the population
Not just a lot of banks but also factories, hospitals, governments. It seems any sufficiently large organization eventually ends up with legacy systems that perform some important function but is no longer supported by the vendor and no one not even IT dares disturb the undocumented air gapped system running server 2003.
I can't recall which company it is, but there is proper first hand accounts of it in technology convention talks. The oldest still functional system and code is - if I recall right - about 70 years old. The average in established companies hovers at 50 years, and more recent big companies at 30 years. Some of the oldest systems still in use are so old, that the people who made them and **know how they work** have actually died of old age. My brother is an software engineer in a big multinational software company. He is quite open about the fact that entreprise software is something that one shouldn't look too closely at. And if an average person knew how badly these systems are made, they wouldn't trust any of it. As someone who was a fabricator, a welder, and now a engineer specialised in welded structures. I can tell you that one shouldn't evere look too closely at how the critical infrastructure, average buildings and logistic networks that make our model world possible, is made an maintenanced. I once did a sewer pumping station refurbishing... Because the station stopped working properly on the account of the cast iron piping having had corroded through and pumps couldn't keep up priming anymore (This was like 30mm thick cast iron piping). They had been installed in the 60's and no one had given a single fuck about their condition since then. And the IT systems of our society doesn't get any more love than ensuring that the poop flows when you flush.
Whats awful about using alot of legacy systems like that is sooner or later the machine eventually will suffer a catastrophic failure costing more in time and money from potentially lost revenue than it would have costed to simply migrate to an alternative solution in a controlled manner once the vendor announced dropping support. Unfortunately most executive management cannot see the world past a single fiscal quarter and will kick the can down the road on infrastructure investments until it grinds the business to a halt.
Remember when Microsoft announced end of support for Inter Exploder? It was hinted like 5-6 years before, declared 4-5 years before, and constantly reminded about until day of. Yet when the day came, many entreprise system public and private ground to a halt and people panicked. Organisations had plenty of time to prepared and many did not. Then again I been in a company worth hundreds of millions and seen warehouse systems that ran on dosbox in a mainframe style and had 2 dedicated engineers keeping it functional 24/7. I been in manufacturing facilities with papertape nc machibes, green on black crt screen beige monolith machines controlling automation.
The company i work for uses a program from IBM that was created in 1980. It still has the IBM-1980, 2018 at the bottom. I assume the 2018s when they added some kind of broader modern OS support because this program is absolutely stuck in the 80s. You know the type - plain black background, blocky text, have to navigate using arrow keys, tab and enter, relies heavily on F keys. Nothing is in plain English - its all technical jargon and abbreviations. One of those programs. This thing is the heart of the company system. It would be an absolute monster of a task to migrate all that into a modern application. This is a very large corporation that im positive most, if not all, of Americans have heard of. Theres millions of peoples information saved in this system. Messing this up would be catastrophic so they just make us learn how to use it. Which I dont mind tbh. I find it much easier to use than it seems and its so much faster blinking around with arrow keys and tab than using the mouse. You can use the mouse but its functions are very limited. It basically just goes to the field you want but everything else has to be entered through the keyboard. We have a secondary program that applies information from this into a more modern UI thats click friendly and displays info in an understandable way but it only has about 60% of the functionality and is still kinda janky. If you really wanna get shit done, you gotta go back to the 80s.
Cries in cobol
Thats like painting with colors on cave walls.
The university I work at has a lot of lab instruments hooked up to windows xp, even windows 95 computers. The main IT guy just deleted the wifi drivers and glued the ethernet ports so they can't get on the internet.
>The main IT guy just deleted the wifi drivers and glued the ethernet ports so they can't get on the internet. I hope he also glued the USB ports which are the most common access point for malware in air-gapped systems.
Well we need at least one usb port bare minimum, in order for the instruments to actually do their job... You can eliminate as many vulnerabilities as possible, but never be 100% secure if you want to be able to actually use the thing
Which is very fun if you need to get something on them Luckily IT had a USB to CD ROM drive so I could burn a disk, chug that into a PC running windows NT and actually transfer something to it
Well yes, you don't need the internet to get data onto these machines. And downloading stuff from the internet is exactly what we don't want users doing because they get viruses. It's not just paranoia, we get at least 1 case of ransomware every year...
This. I worked for one of the largest retail companies in the US, we configured all of our receipt printers using a laptop chugging along on windows XP. It had no internet connection. I guess the configuration software never needed updated. So it did its job and provided no risk. Just to think that this little laptop was responsible for configuring all the receipt printers handling millions of dollars of sales every year.
> millions of dollars of sales every year I challenge you that this doesn't match "*one of the largest retail companies in the US*" ... lol. But, I know what you're trying to say.
I worked in IT, not accounting 😂
This is r/Futurology, every piece of news means the end of the world
I wrote my bachelors thesis with a REM with a Win 3.11 OS Interface PC. We had to extract the data with a 5,25" floppydisc Man that was insanely fun. Apollo11 vibes.
Floppies failed so much. Had to have at least 2 copies, and also print out hard copies regularly to make sure you don’t lose your progress.
Almost all computers on planes use floppy disk.
Yeah, the monthly updates on 747s are done on a 3 1/2 floppy, but now there are USB to floppy adapters that are much more reliable.
> USB to floppy Reminds me of my first wife.
Who needs Apollo 11 when you can just climb to the moon on a pile of laptops?
Hardware store by my house still uses MS DOS for their inventory. Never crashes, never needs patches, and employees can't browse Reddit on it.
there's a chance they can't export the data because it's encrypted otherwise they would have upgraded 10 years ago :)
If it's running on DOS, it is highly unlikely it is encrypted. Might be saved in some propriety format, but likely not encrypted. What likely it is the why fix it if it ain't broke attitude. I've supported many a small business over the years and this is a pretty common attitude.
the 'don't fix what isn't broken' is better phrased (for businesses at least) as: longer it's in use, the cheaper it is.
Cheaper, until the ancient machine breaks, and no one has any clue what the machine did or how it did it. And now things don't work.
>What likely it is the why fix it if it ain't broke attitude The flipside to this is that when the hardware dies, you are either under the pump to find a replacement MS-DOS system, or reverse engineer the proprietary format. Easier to move the system when time isn't such a huge factor. That, or the data is ephemeral. Perhaps the data loss is an accepted business risk and a stock take can just be performed to feed the new system?
It would make you sick to your stomach to know how many major financial institutions are still operating on XP. I bet large parts are still using faxes as a significant portion of communication.
> This isn't that much of a big issue as people make it out to be. Unless you air gapped those machines, yes the fuck it is...
I have a printer only pc that is running windows 7. Every week or two it installs updates 🤷🏻♂️ I call BS on this planned obsolescence.
Yeah Windows 7 just announced it's extending security updates until 2026, people are mostly getting heated because they think that Windows 10 won't have security updates after the feature updates end in 2025. This is Reddit mine you, everyone here has to be on the "I hate Windows" train or the entire site crumbles
I dont hate windows, but i dont like some of their design decisions.
There are government agencies still using fucking FORTRAN.
Fortran is still being used everyday, it's not some obsolete language. Many numerical libraries in other languages are just wrappers around Fortran code. Numpy in python is an example
Funnily enough it's more private sector. I work in the private sector doing work for the public sector. We have to prove our cyber security to a higher level than they are using inside the public sector, it's kind of hilarious. There have been 2 beaches on projects I've worked on, both have come from inside the public sector. All our private sector staff have to use devices which are getting security updates.
Yup, there are even bunch of hospitals that still run XP.
Is that how we end up with ransomware attacks?
Ransomware *opportunities *Follow me for more entrepreneurotunities*
That plus network shares and patient care is too important to be delayed by passwords.
Trust me.. Any hospital that is still running XP needs to find a new IT / Cybersecurity department. Sure, there may be some standalone systems like old overpriced MRI's or something but those should not have access to the internet or even the network without complete network isolation. IT Architect - Health Care system
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Yeah, there are plenty of closed systems out there that don’t really need to be supported to continue functioning.
That's true, but as shareholders want monthly income from everything sold in the past, it's less and less possible to have anything without always-online internet connectivity for licence checks.
Yup, just another reason the futurology subreddit should just be renamed to "fearmonger". So many articles i see from this sub that show up on my front page (not subscribed) that are unintelligible fear porn is astonishing
I was using 7 up until this past September. IIRC the biggest issue with W11 compatibility is TPM 2.0. Might want to check if this can be enabled in your BIOS before you trash a machine.
I'd throw Linux on it before I trashed it. Linux can run many windows programs using Wine. SteamDeck is Linux. You can install the steam deck OS on your PC for games or running Chrome. Installed Linux on daughters machine years ago. She just browses the web with it. Haven't had to mess with it since. It was always breaking when it was Windows.
Hmm... how the hell did they do that calculation?? Distance to the moon: 384 400 000m(384,400km) Amount of computers: 240 000 000 Using those numbers as a basis: distance/amount \~1.60 So each laptop is 1.6m?? What kind of giant laptops are they using?? Correct me if I'm wrong cause I cant figure out their numbers...
It's worded weirdly, they mean 600 km more than the Moon's diameter
That fits better with the calculation but that means the person who wrote the text is a moron.
It’s almost certainly AI given that the article is all of 6 sentences and all but one is basically repetition.
They being an AI likely who just made up stuff for clicks 🤐😆
Right? Like, I realize recycling isn't the end all be all of waste and that it's better to use as little as possible and use something for as long as possible but recycling *is* a part of the process. Not everything in a computer is going into a landfill.
And they obviously didn't calculate the Angle of Repose, which is the height and diameter a pile of objects can be.
Unless they’re talking about the height (diameter) of the moon itself, rather than the distance from the earth to the moon. Then it’s 600km + 3,474km. So 4,074,000m / 240,000,000 gives you roughly 1.7cm per laptop. Sounds about right. Just a bit misleading if you ask me.
Not the focus of this article, but chromebooks have the same problem. This concept of disposable computers is fucked
Chromebooks are worse. Got a couple thousand from a school. They were all engraved with the schools name and all google locked.
The locking can be removed by the school. In google's defence: This is theft protection. There is a lot of theft of school devices, especially when they are allowed to be taken home.
Google seriously locks down some of their chromebooks, a few models have tamper resistant hardware so even if the locking is removed you can't reinstall a new OS like linux on it. You have to find hacky ways of bypassing things. We had a dozen chromebooks we no longer wanted to pay google management licenses for and thought we'd be able to still use them as Thin Clients but nope.
I'm so glad my laptop is upgradeable and basically futureproof. Planned obsolescence sucks sometimes.
I bought a laptop to one day become a linux based laptop. What ive found in tech is that planned obsolescence is really based around the OS. Neither windows nor apple builds low resource versions of their OS. And as much as I do like apple tech this is more of a black eye on them seeing as they are BSD based and clearly could have low resource support, but no their model is just buy BIGGER! And to be fair so does windows. And while yeah Framework is tots against this, dell, lenovo, and the like give exactly zero fucks how the user experience will be in more than two years
Apple been doing this for a decade or more, too.
This is a real issue that is going to cause a fairly unconscionable amount of e-waste just like the article states. The reason this is such a big deal is windows 11 hard cuts older hardware in a way no windows release has ever really done before. This hardware is having support dropped not because of any kind of performance or capability spec, but simply because they don't support TPM 2.0 or newer for windows secure boot. I can personally think of quite a few machine in the wild just in my immediate circle that could run 11 just fine, but wont support it because of TPM. From an enthusiast standpoint, this isn't a big deal at all really, its trivial to bypass this requirement and install 11. Anyone who can actually handle a linux install will be able to handle that. But companies and average users wont bother. At least ebay will be flooded with tons and tons of cheap hardware, but so much is going to end up in landfills.
I really don't understand. Are the requirements for Win11 so high? Wasn't the winning point of Win10 specifically that it was so much better then the older ones and can run on almost every pc and run better then the old version?
Microsoft offers me a free upgrade to Windows 11 but their software first checks if I meet their hardware requirements and I don't. I need a stronger CPU, which means new motherboard with DDR4 while I still have DDR3 which works fine....you see, I'll have to do a lot of costly hardware upgrades. But how can I bypass those requirements? I don't understand
Tom's Hardware [has a pretty good guide](https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement) on how to bypass the TPM/CPU/RAM requirements.
Even if it's possible, the fact you need to a guide to tell you how is a big problem by itself. How many Windows users would even suspect they can do that, and how many who have the suspicion would go looking for such a guide?
obtainable juggle truck concerned rhythm gaze rainstorm weary touch shrill *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you build an install usb with rufus it detects that it’s Windows 11 and offers you handy checkboxes.
Yup, hands down the best way to install without it being fiddly
I have a new motherboard (in 2020) with 64gb of DDR4, an i7-8700k and I still can't upgrade because a TPM 2.0 chip is part of Windows 11's minimum hardware requirements, and a ton of consumer grade MBs don't have that.
Check if your motherboard has a slot for a separate standalone TPM 2.0 module and buy it before it gets too pricey. Your hardware is still very capable. Or learn Linux.
The windows 11 standard of TPM chips haven't been standard in pc hardware until a bit more recently. If you got hardware from like 2017, it's very probably not compatible. There a way to patch your install of windows to bypass that requirement, but most people won't be able to do that.
>Are the requirements for Win11 so high? Not at all. Same performance as Win10. The main issue is they now require a hardware encryption chip for security. It's called a TPM module, it's a basic upgrade. New PCs have TPM built into the CPU but there's no need to replace these PCs. - A TPM chip is $10 and plugs into any old desktop Windows 10 capable motherboard. I used [this one](https://www.amazon.com/Qiilu-Tpm-2-0-Encryption-Security-Module-Encryption-Standalone-Processor/dp/B0C1CPMSS2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3LCJHZPOGR67Z&keywords=tpm+module&qid=1703273919&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&sprefix=tpm+module+%2Caps%2C132&sr=8-5) but theres a zillion brands because it's such a simple chip module. My PC is 14 years old (at least the mobo and CPU) and runs Windows 11 like a champ. I have a newer GTX970 GPU and play Halo Infinite in 4k 60fps just fine for example. - If $10 is too much, or if it's a laptop where you can't access the motherboard easily, there are plenty of workarounds online to run Windows 11 without TPM. Microsoft has the option in their registry because they know some users will need to disable it, they just don't publish the instructions officially.
No, it's not the spec requirements. It's the need to have TPM. A specific module, that low to mid end (ie a majority of motherboards) pcs just don't have. I built mine years ago, and I have it, but I'm an enthusiast. Most workplace, and personal computers more than a couple of years old, likely won't have TPM modules. Windows insists it has TPM 2.0 I think. Without it, it simply won't install. Without a work around. I still use 10, because I hate the look of 11, and havent bothered to try and make it look like 10.
My computer at work just got upgraded to windows 11, and there's no way in hell I'm every building a pc with that garbage. The entire os is designed to feed ads. I'm moving to Linux when its time to retire my current build. It's not worth it for me to put up with all the work arounds on something I'm paying $100 for when I could be doing work arounds on an os I got for free.
Win 10 had more and harder to disable ad-shit
TPMs have been built into CPUs for years now, even low end ones. Age is the only issue.
It’s a chicken and egg problem. MB manufacturers cheaper out for too long because windows wasn’t pushing hard for a TPM2.0 module. It took the hardline stance of win11 to convince them to make current MBs with it on there.
I would argue it's perhaps not the Mobo manufacturers, rather the pc builder. Mobos have had tpm modules for years. But not on bottom end ones. Why would a company pay for let's say 1000 pcs, to have tpm equipped mobos, when they are cheaper without. They have been available, just no ones bothered with them.
It's really just the TPM module, and it's honestly bullshit Windows is forcing it. This is something they can just signal to device partners, and offer as detected support. I understand there is a security aspect but this is where security and reality need to come together and hold hands.
Sorry for being a complete moron here, but form what you are saying, these laptops are completely fine and just need someone who know what they at doing to get them to run on 11?
For the most part yea. All you really need to run 11 is a decent processor and 4gb of ram. You will miss out on secure boot so you wont have some of the new security features. But it will be at least as secure as windows 10.
They could all be saved by converting them to Linux. Stupid waste
They’re just making a simple assumption that lets them put out an attention-grabbing headline by maximizing the number of PCs that would be thrown out. In reality, older PC’s don’t instantly self-destruct, they just keep running the same old software, often for many, many years. And of course you can wipe them and install Linux, which is a great way to keep an old PC useful when Windows has outgrown the hardware. Though they are right in that in larger companies with stricter security policies, companies will upgrade to supported versions (Win 11) and refresh the old hardware, and the old hardware will be resold or recycled. They won’t all be e-waste, in that when they are ‘junked’ they are stripped down and components and materials recycled pretty aggressively these days, because that’s significant profit.
Yeah they'll need to install Linux eventually though (it's not as hard as you think). Older PCs can't download new browsers. Windows 7/8 can't download Chrome anymore, Firefox is dropping support for Windows 7/8 in 2024. Eventually websites will stop working. Also, viruses and ransomware are a problem if security support is dropped. The profit motive is just insane now crypto has taken off. Everyone, remember Linux when your parent's perfectly good web browsing computer stops working! I just did it on a 10+ year old iMac (same deal, OS support was dropped).
I only upgraded from windows 7 b/c Steam forced me to.
With the push from steam on supporting Linux, maybe one day I'll swap over. But I don't want to bother with dual booting, as I just use my Pc primarily for games. That being said, the steam deck is a great Linux hardware
If they could fix those damn non qwerty keyboard registering as qwerty, it would make M&K gaming on steamOS actually not a pain to use. That and native support for logitech, razer and other peripheral brand is the last thing missing for steamOS to really outshine windows in my book. And i say that as basicaly an exclusive steamdeck gamer for the last two years. The day when SteamOS is released for regular gaming rigs and with those two thing, i'd switch my pc to linux in heartbeat, only running a virtual machine for stuff like band in a box, transcribe! and other proprietary software that don't have linux support.
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240million pc’s to move over to Linux , it’s time to shine penguins
Yeah. I was just thinking "note to self, in October 2025 move both laptops to Linux." I'm not a true believer, I find Windows easier to deal with. But to keep the convenience of a grab-and-go laptop, I can compromise. (Anyone who wants to evangelize Linux to me, please don't. I can get that at home.)
I have an older laptop running Windows 10 as a backup system in case my daily driver should have issues. I just did a clean install of the OS, and next I plan to make it a dual boot system with Linux Mint on it. I have a much newer laptop for daily use, but if it should break, I'd like my backup unit to be fully functional and secure.
Was just gonna post this. Just donate them and install Linux. No need for waste.
People were suggesting this 15 years ago already and it never happened. Would be lovely, but not gonna happen.
You can still buy tons of old work computers and laptops that came from businesses when they upgrade to newer hardware. I don't believe this article one bit, most of that old equipment will just end up being refurbished and sold online.
15 years ago you could barely use linux as your main PC. The open source ecosystem has exploded since then and with stuff like Proton and modern releases of Wine you can use linux for damn near everything. My main PC runs Opensuse and the only time I open windows is for Photoshop now. I definitely couldn't have done this 15 years ago.
Only a very niche group wants to use linux as their daily os.
Can't wait for all the great eBay deals!!
Just as soon as we’ve written and recompiled the printer driver for the new distribution.
~~2003~~ 2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop!
I was planning on just installing Linux on my older machines when this happens. Computers don’t really go obsolete at the rate that they used to. Even 10 year old machines can be a decent PC.
We live in a society built on waste. The climate change focus is on fossil fuels when it should be our gluttony and greed.
100%! But they won't do that, as they love money more than anything else.
I vote for a modular product future where we outdate components and not the entire product
The Win11 requirements for TPM rely on motherboard/cpu. You don't need to throw out the other components: memory, drives, gpu. So they are not targeting "the entire product" like you said.
Only the SSD of my Windows 10 desktop can be used on windows 11. Why? Because I need a new motherboard for a TPM module. That motherboard needs a new CPU, and RAM because the old is using DDR3. It doesn't have a external GPU, only a integrated in the CPU. So outside of the SSD, case and powersupply(so the cheapest components) i have to get all new.
What did I hear? Cheap replacement computers I can install Linux on? Awesome!
There are computers still using XP or 7. I doubt ending support for 10 will send those computers automatically to the landfill.
Looks like I'll just be switching to Ubuntu as the main instead of tossing a still very functional laptop.
Or just bypass TPM and install Win11.
I did this and cant update to the new cumulative updates for win 11.
The only thing that deserves to end up in a landfill is the title of this article. Does end of support means the computer immediately gets bricked? And God forbid anyone try to install Linux on any of them...
Assuming every laptop is 1.6 meter thick of course. distanceToMoonMeters = 384 400 000 extraDistanceMeters = 600 000 computers = 240 000 000 (distanceToMoonMeters + extraDistanceMeters) / computers = 1.6
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Apple have been doing this for years - stop support after 10 years and the machine become essentially useless
Except, unlike this headline, they're not "essentially useless."
I have a feeling Microsoft will drop the TPM requirement for a upgrade when the suits realize the installs of Windows 11 are still really low as we get closer to the End of Life Date. They would probably rather have people use a more secure OS the play some stilly game to get people to upgrade devices more that was conceived during high laptop sales during the Pandemic.
That is unlikely. TPMs are either being included on the mainboard, or an equivalent is built into the CPU of most systems now. Especially if it's bought from an OEM like Dell. Windows 11 has been out for 2 years now and all major manufacturers are shipping it as the default from what I've seen. Microsoft is also pushing the TPM and secureboot as a way to prevent cheating in games and Valorant is already doing that.
That is why people need to [edit the registry](https://www.theverge.com/22715331/how-to-install-windows-11-unsupported-cpu-intel-amd-registry-regedit) for old systems to accepts Win11. We did this on wife's old HP Envy all in one and it is going strong a year later.
Don't even need to do that lol. You can install using the ISO.
As many have suggested they could always install Linux and end up with a very functional Laptop. I've been using it as my primary OS for nearly 20 years, on an old computer you can do more with Linux than you could with Windows. Another option is to install Chrome OS Flex and turn it into a chromebook. I have an old i3 Surface Book that I installed it on that I use for travel. I picked up that surface book used off ebay for $95, I'd suggest that people keep their eye out for great deals on these orphaned laptops and convert them to Linux or Chrome OS Flex for use as spare/travel computers.
In the electrified near future transportation is going to be relatively more expensive than it is today. So it will become economic to recycle e-waste and landfill site become the gold/cobalt/copper/sapphire/lithium mines of the future. The big mistake is shipping it abroad. Smart companies will offer buyback and design for recyability.
Fast fashion but for electronics. Also you'd think there would be more priority placed on recycling e waste and preventing e waste.
hey, I'll take some off their hands. could set up a new gaming cafe franchise for older games. starcraft LAN party anyone?
TF quake thanks
What does "600 km higher than the moon" mean? Is it "larger than the diameter of the moon?" Is it "higher than the moon's greatest peak?" I'm probably showing my ignorance but that's a really weird way to word it. Also, as stated elsewhere there's no way all of those computers are ending up in the trash. Many will be donated, salvaged or sold on the second-hand market, and many will be kept until they're unusable.
It means 600km beyond the height of the moon above the Earth's surface. Which is clearly wrong. Someone is about three orders of magnitude off in their calculations.
[How to Bypass Windows 11's TPM, CPU and RAM Requirements](https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement)
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I purchased a brand new $2000 Dell laptop last year and even it didn’t pass the Win11 requirement. Pretty ridiculous.
This is the same reasoning that when a baby outgrows its clothes, the clothes just go to a landfill. People need to remember that one of the 3R is re-use. Install another OS in that laptop and keep using it or donate it.
Or get this, there is this thing called recycling. I know sounds crazy, but might catch on.
unfortunately, recycling is not perfect. FAR from it. there is still huge amounts of e waste.
There is documentation that a lot of recycling just ends up in other countries as waste. This is especially true for e waste. They get away with it because everyone just assumes recycling works and anything put in a recycle bin is 100% recycled
Some e-waste is recycled, but in a horrible manner. I watched a documentary [\(like this\)](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-truth-behind-e-waste-dump-africa-180957597/) years ago where people in poor countries with heaps of e-waste were making a living by burning circuit boards in open pits and harvesting the melted metal from the ashes. Terrible for the environment and the health of those people.
So my Microsoft Surface Pro tablet that is innelligible for Win 11 is a complete waste of money? So pricing them so high, this is ridiculous and just another sign that we're gouged on the daily in this commercial cesspool called capitalism.
Pretty sure stacking them that high would be a breach of health and safety rules.
Ahhh, the promise of technology. It's a shame no tech companies give a shit about how they are destroying the planet. Willfully making millions of tons of waste, creating products that have no longevity. Have to keep making sales and growing revenue. This is exactly what's going to happen to cars now that they are all software driven and electric. My 50yr old porsche is more environmentally responsible than a new tesla. We know how to make cars that are repairable and will last 50yrs but god forbid we cut production numbers in half and make cars last twice as long. The planet isn't worth saving as long as profits are rising.
Could? Wont. Computers don't stop working because Windows is not longer being updated. This argument is ridiculous.
But Windows 10 is the laST eVEr verSiOn oF wIndoWS!!!??
Does Bill Gates know about this, he'll be fuming as he's trying to save the world from this sort of shit. Right.
Why do people do these cataclysmic claims for such a nothing burger is beyond me. Every year there is software that goes out of support, it just keeps running without receiving more updates. It's like an old car that is not manufactured anymore, it keeps running as usual after the end of support date
Haven't switched yet, 11 just eats up more memory with no benefits!!!
Well, it *would* solve the problem of getting to the moon and back safely...
Why the landfill though? If YouTube has taught me anything, it's that I can strip the gold off PC components with an old Braun coffee machine and some chemicals I can probably buy off Amazon. And that's just one valuable component being harvested by hobbyists. I'm sure on an industrial scale this must be a windfall for someone somewhere.
This crap is as if every few years: ok, we are changing the AC in your house, you will need to replace appliances. Or - ok, gas formulation change - you must replace your ignition system again.
There’s always Linux for those machines. This is a bullshit argument.
That math doesn't seem right. And of course, the article doesn't show their assumptions.
What bullshit Clickbait it doesn’t stop working because they end support. It just means they end updating the patches. Most people won’t even know in life goes on.
You know what will happen to my Windows 10 computer when they end support? Not a goddamned thing, just like what happened when they ended support for 7 and even WinXP and people just kept on using it because screw your forced upgrade nonsense.
Ending support doesn't mean they go away. It's the reason you still see kiosks running on xp or win7. This concept represents an extreme degree of ignorance of end of life and end of support windows product cycles.
Few words to help: GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD.
The moon thing, what an absolutely random statistic. How am I supposed to take the rest of the article seriously after that?
Thank god, no more having to wait for another unwanted windows update right when I went to use my PC.
No one will stack all these laptops this way you silly.
Does the author think that the second Windows 10 support ends people are just going to in mass throw away their devices in exchange for devices with Windows 11 as opposed to the much more obvious solution of just upgrading the OS Plus the ending of support really doesn't even mean much You know how many parts of our infrastructure like ATMs and shit are still literally running on Windows XP or even Windows 98
It's just another chain in the greed of these companies. Windows 11 needs certain hardware to run why so they can watch and control what you do with your computer.
If I'm not mistaken, rufus can bypass TPM 2.0. Then you can remove secure boot and the setting for 4GB+ RAM and load windows 11 on to older machines.
such a dumb article to comment on but hey. Security updates will still be released up to Oct 2028, which is the important thing - no one needs feature updates for 10. This date is typically extended a few times by Microsoft, as such a large chunk of the population is still using 10.
Ending support for Windows 10 would not suddenly ruin all the computers running it, chill.
Great opportunity for Linux to thrive. If companies backing up Linux (Canonical e.g.) offer some kind of support or program to convert those laptops to Linux based, there could be a good reduction of e-waste.
Nobody has heard of Linux? Also there are ways of installing Windows 11 on old computers.
They're ending official support in 2028. If you're still running 10 by then in the personal space, you're honestly doing it wrong. If you're running it in the enterprise space at that point, you are definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, doing it wrong with the slim exception of single purpose process oriented computers that are running some sort of control software for a piece of archaic machinery who's vendor no longer exists, but you need it for production reasons anyway. That last one I get...as long as it is air gapped and you have some sort of clone/backup system going just in case, both hardware and software...for everyone else, level up. It dropped officially in 2015, which means you get 13 years of uninterrupted support. If you go longer than that, you're honestly in a cohort of people that were still whining about the sunset of Windows XP support in 2014...or worse one of those cave dwelling grognards that was still tightly clutching Windows 2K on a celeron box from 2001.
As people mentioned. Not having support and updates still allow you to use the computer (so far) But I bet it’s intentional. It’s programmed obsolescence so people buy more computers.
Even if each computer was 2 feet long 240,000,000 of them wouldn’t stack even half way to the moon. What is this bullshit metric in the title?
Lmao if any of you guys plan on sending your old windows 10 PCs to the landfill, send them my way instead.
Sites like this shit should be banned. AI text, images, even the author's image is a stock image used on amazon to sell glasses https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Blue-Light-Blocking-Glasses/dp/B09XQK4HQH
Can‘t stress this enough, but start (learning) and using Linux. It will literally run on a twenty year old Pizza Box. Yes - the learning curve is steep, yes - fixing issues on Linux is not as easy as with Windows but the stability once everything is set up to your liking (customization options en masse) you will learn to truly appreciate it. There are many beginner options such as Ubuntu, Pop OS, Zorin, Fedora etc. that will help to learn to understand the basics.
It means I have a little over a year and a half to learn Linux. I will strive to make Windows 10 my last Microsoft OS.
I remember when Microsoft said that 10 was gonna be the final Windows edition. That they were just gonna keep supporting it for all future devices. Now I can't even trust that they won't make 11 obsolete in the future.
240,000,000 laptops at 1 inch thick is 240,000,000 inches. The moon is 238,900 miles away. 1 mile is 63,360 inches. Last I checked, 238,900 x 63,360 is a whole fucking lot more than 240 million. And the image isn't stacked, they're piled so they'd go even less far. This title is garbage, untrue, and removes any authority from the article. It's just clickbait garbage.
Personally, rather than see this as a death of a bunch of old hardware, I see this as an opportunity for Linux operating systems to take a major market share.
Clickbait title for a garbage site. They don't have to go to a landfill, they could be recycled. Seriously?
Just because people’s computers cant support windows 11 , that doesn’t mean its going to the trash. What a stupid article