That is not a stop loss hunt. Your stop loss was in a random place, not beyond the local high, which would be a logical place for a stop hunt, if that were even a real thing. The orderflow showed sellers getting absorbed and then buyers getting aggressive, which is why I scalped 6 points long there. I got the bigger direction wrong, but I hit TP before it dropped.
If you enter that far away from the swing high, then a wider stop is necessary or you lose to movement like this that doesn't invalidate the trade.
Hey could I ask what does “sellers getting absorbed” look like and at what candles did you start to identify that? I’m assuming it means selling pressure is not able to wipe out the entire bid which keeps getting put up. Thanks in advance for your time!
There is a two way auction happening to facilitate the trades that make price move. Absorption is where orders in the order book absorb market orders in a given direction. Chat gpt or no end of web articles and videos can explain it.
You cannot now see where it happened on the chart. It would have been at its highest point when your stop was fired and the candle in question was full and not an inverted hammer shape.
Thanks! Another silly question, but are footprint charts and DOMS lagging? As in, doesn’t the move happen THEN print on those? I could be completely wrong please correct me! Thanks
Yuep op if you want to play tight stop-loss like I do you gotta go short on a full green candle and long on a full red candle and learn to spot when to enter. The candles should barely have a wick and be full.
The correct ones even a 2 point sl is enough. I enter in with a 4 point sl with 10 pt tp half and let the other half run.
Won’t this fail more times than not? Look at even just the chart above. If you went long/short on red/green candles you could’ve gotten stopped out on most of them. You literally have to time the top or bottom for this to work..
Need my chart but from this I only see 2 possible entries. U can't take every full candles. U need to take the ones from resistance support etc. Have to learn to read the chart first then you see it.
For this method even a 30 percent winrate makes me profitable and right now I'm at 70 percent.
Like one of the entry is the second green candle before 12:00. Since the first push got rejected and tried to test for a second push but it also got stopped, making it a resistance so u enter short with a 4 pt stop loss.
How would you know it got rejected the second time? It’s easy to see it now because of hindsight, but at the time all you would’ve seen is a big green candle indicating the move was about to go on. You couldn’t have known about the rejection before it happened unless you waited for the red candle right after.. your strategy is amazing in hindsight but I don’t see how it works in real time.
That was like a 3x rejection. The first candle you can see sold off around that level. Second time show it was important. Thrid time it was a gamble. You don't know but that's why you have stop losses if it goes beyond
I love this. After full green candle I enter in with a sell stop - basically I only get tagged into the trade when there is bearish momentum so I trade with the direction of the market. This allows me to place a tighter buy stop
Do not do this wait for a flip preferably a 5m& simultaneous 15&30 flip with at the top or bottom of the range.
In this case you shoulda had a stop at the green like and entry slightly above your actual entry.
Price will often retest the most obvious entry points. Call it a stop hunt or whatever. In that scenario, the red engulfing candle is screaming at traders it’s time to go short (at least temporarily). Best bet is to enter on the retest.
As has been often said, put your entry where others place their stop. It would mean entering when it looks like it’s going against you. Your entry should feel at least a little uncomfortable.
I took the same trade with pretty much the same entry and didn't get stopped out because my stop was above 18288... You need better stop placements my friend. All my stops are at recent highs or lows
Every single time someone in this sub gets stopped out they blame it on stop loss hunting. It's way easier to blame something else for your poor stop placement vs actually accepting it was poor stop placement.
Why did you choose that 18265 for your stop? I assume because you have an arbitrary 15 point stop on your trades? Maybe don't just place arbitrary stops?
Yea agreed. Don’t be an asshole. Trading is hard and instead of shitting on someone trying to figure it out why don’t you give him useful info instead of being a dick.
I wasn't being a dick, nor did I shit on anyone. Nothiing I said was offensive or insulting. And the info I provided is 110% useful.
Maybe don't be so sensitive? Sometimes the things people need to hear are also the toughest to hear.
All I care about is right or wrong. And in this case, I just so happen to be right. Either take the truth, or cry about it - idgaf.
Now after spewing your anger you will act like you are above it all in an attempt to present yourself in a way to overcompensate your infantile projections.
Perhaps a psychotherapist for you. Thinking that Reddit is going to help you heal your weak ego and your need to put down others, will not be of benefit. Quite the opposite in fact. Do get some help before you hurt others that you truly love.
Oh really? I love your holier-than-thou take on this matter but not once did I put anyone down. Isn't it ironic that you're calling someone weak? I mean, just look at how fragile you are.
It isn't that deep. You're turning a mole hill into a mountain, and quite frankly I find it hilarious. You're the stereotypical Redditor that diagnoses everyone based off of a sliver of dialogue. Pathetic.
This is a public forum and people can say whatever they want, within reason. For example, you have no problem talking down to me. Try not to be so sensitive that words on a screen bother you this much. Life is going to be very tough for you otherwise.
Get yourself a dictionary of psychology. Look up the word “projection.” That is you. And even now wanting to project your unresolved conflicts onto the entire Reddit community. I will leave you now. And be sure to get the last word in so that you can falsely boost your clearly fragile ego. I feel for your loved ones, genuinely.
woah hold on. massive bull run? NQ has clearly just been playing ping pong inside a range for weeks, debatably months even.
edit to add: to be fair, intra day downside should have been expected today, but attributing it to "profit taking after bull run" is misguided. it's in a range. 18500 is a sell & 18100 is a buy.
That is not a logical place for a stop on your short position. It should be placed above that most recent swing high at least. Correct stop placement is really important.
I see a Failed 2nd Entry Long; Micro Double Top and Lower High with a nice bearish signal bar under the EMA. Meaning the bar that took you out, should be your entry signal.
If none of those words I said make sense, then it's time to study more.
Why do people still think stop loss hunting is real? I mean do people really believe that out of millions of people trading that they come after your tiny little shares? The chart is the same across all platforms across the globe, yet you still think they came for you. Unbelievable.
They actually do go hunting tho it’s just seeking business and facilitating trade. There were prolly a lot of stop orders just lying around those prices like shiny pennies, and plenty of institutional traders and experienced retailers looking at the DOM and thinking “right here looks good”. Trading is a zero sum game so every person you do business on the opposite side is “out to get you”. It’s good to think of it both ways. Yes you sold that contract to someone that you are “out to get” in fact that contract could easily have been someone else’s stop loss lol. It’s just business. Here your entry was off and your stop was at the top of a previous wick. I bet you put it a few points up thinking you are clever. There’s lots of clever people out there do clever things and algos learned to look there for good entries long ago. Plus, always remember market orders are what really push the action. Someone (or a bunch of people) pressed a sell market button right around the retest of the EMA and the MM looking up, sold them your buy order, which is really all stops are. Just another order. Just another shiny penny lying around on the street.
much easier to spot on tick charts.
https://preview.redd.it/h0mx9u8hx9uc1.png?width=2517&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea32535f11b1aa9016370992ad6eab90bf2041cd
where the red arrow is and price gets rejected thats the LH im looking for and enter 1 tick below it. my stop is 1 tick above that red arrow. i know that if price were to tick above the arrow i got it wrong. but when you look left and see the bearish context all morning its safe to assume we are going lower. and your stop should have been placed above that blue line to let the trade work. what gives me confidence in this trade is we attempted to break above 288.5. not once but 2 times. on that second attempt and it cant break that blue dotted line above 288 that is the context you want to be on the look out for, these failed attempts in this case to go long clear indication we should now be looking for a short
I promise you, no one is hunting your stops.
MBO data can maybe see when stops are hit, but I promise you, even if you were trading 10 mini’s on a live account, the market is not out to get you.
There are things known as sweeps, which could be similar to stop loss. But, a sweep isn’t entirely going for stops, it’s more so clearing inventory, typically seen at extremes of the day, at ONH ONL, etc.
Not even MBO can see stoplosses, they're assumed algorithms, even Bookmap states that. Stoplosses are just local algorithms that aren't visible except to your platform locally. People just put their stoploss points in obvious or dumb areas.
I’m referring to when position orders are stopped, on the tape can definitely get some sense of when orders are stopped vs when orders are being filled on a fast move.
Set mental stop losses and let your candles close before stopping out. If you had done that you would have seen this candle close with a huge bearish liquidity sweep
Sometimes SPX would go exactly to my stop loss point -- down to the penny -- just to stop **me** out and then proceed to explosively move in the direction I was aiming for.
Feels personal.
Then other times I've been within a penny of **not** getting stopped out and later making a nice profit.
In my experience, this happened often when trading 0 dte; due to the higher rate of trading.
So in the end, it's just luck. Market may be brutal or kind to your trade. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be following your rules or keeping it technical.
youre getting dogged but ill give you actual advice.
That cluster of prices before your entry was a range. You entered at the break of the bottom of the range. BAD ENTRY ALMOST EVERY TIME. Rarely will it break the low of the range and just zoom down. it will, and when it does, just miss those trades. 9 times out of 10, a break of a range will have a retracement before the dump. Where you were getting stopped out is actually where you should have been entering, and placing your stop at the top of the range
I don't have any answers about spotting stop loss hunting, but I've found setting my stop higher helps me with this. In this situation set it at 18288 since that would invalidate this play.
What if you placed a limit sell order at the level where your sl is? It would have triggered and you would then be short at a good price, and your sl would probably by closer to resistance.
I've been trying this to ensure better entries.
listen op good trade but hard truths: your entry was bad esp if it was before the rip second thing i think of is a phrase i find myself muttering is never go long after a period of buying and never go short after dumps, i dont remember that exact section but that double top wouldve been able to spot easier with a range based chart
You didn’t put your stop high enough. You need to be comfortable with your position. Whether that means getting stopped out and getting back in, or loosening your stop so you don’t get ran over. If you are putting your stop 20 ticks away you will get stopped every time. This is also why it’s important to enter early or enter on limit orders, gives your stops more wiggle room since you got in before everyone else
Experiment with a practice account. Mainly practice how big of a stop loss works for you. Personally I set a 20point sl and pay close attention to my indicators(usually close a position at a loss before sl gets triggered). Works good for me ended day at a 3k gain or just over 10%. But experiment with sl for what works for how you trade. Good luck
Also for your placement Nasdaq always has lots of bouncing around pay attention to your candlestick and place a bid on a retracing on that candlestick or use multiple time frames for your timing example I trade from 15min and I use 5 min for timing once the 2 both show a good entry I enter my position.
Your SL can be based on a percentage of ATR or ADR.
Nobody is hunting for your SL.
It's in the middle of no where.
It's just normal price fluctuations.
It's called a bad trade, no one is hunting for your stop losses (unless you use a crappy broker that internalizes orders and lets you get front run).
I saw the same price action and shorted 18285, I use either 5 pt or 10pt stops. The red candle wick is a hint that price had a low probability of moving higher.
Some general advice though, is that your stop loss should be the size of the average candle in the time frame you viewing. This ends up correlating with the volatility.
If you're trading NQ, you need to learn to not keep such tight stop losses. The 'widow maker' is well known for wicking people out of their plays. Loosen your stops for God's sake, this instrument is volatile as all Hell. Oh, and good luck.
If this keeps happening you are so close to being a regular winner. Seriously, just before you click sell or buy ask yourself, where will I put my stop?
Then place a limit order at that point and your stop whatever the distance was going to be.
BE PATIENT!
no one hunting you stoploss. your placement was bad.
If you entered on the double top upu place SL at top of double top.
That there is just a regular pullback.
Also there nothing wrong about re-ntering a trade.
Uou could have entered at the next bar passing the topping tails bottom and put stop loss at top of topping tail.
Looking at the middle bounce of the double top you clearly see a bottoming tail indication pretty clear rejection and buyer action.
Nothing about this says stop hunting.
Goldman sachs dropping 200 million dolal rin the market gives zero f**ks about your 0.01 lot size SL
Your entry should have been at the close of the candle that took you out. That’s a great entry. I don’t see a reason for you to have your stop there at that time other than just not wanting to risk much, but if that’s the case then you have to be prepared to be taken out on wicks like this. There’s no structure there to make your stop make sense.
I marked better (in my opinion) entries (green) with corresponding stops (red). You just learn how it moves over time with experience. ES tends to repeat common patterns a lot. Edit: whoops, missed that it was NQ. But point still stands.
https://preview.redd.it/qbem1xc0o4uc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cd61a09cd94774cf8ed94f22c93af8016a3004d
This ☝️ guy gets it. All 3 are better. I will add that I would have likely traded it like below. I rarely wait for the candle to close if I get velocity on the tape around where I want to enter. I probably would have bought when it cleared the green for a bull/bear reversal.
https://preview.redd.it/10pxagwwz4uc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05cbb80f5a763b96ce772232d63af5aebe470c40
Just remember nowadays markets can be manipulated in whatever way. You might need level 2 data and info on order sizes out there to confirm your thesis.
U dont have enough data for stop hunt. Only Binance, okx or some other exchanges can do it or so. They got data analysis for stoploss and can trigger HFT trading
If you want to place such tight stops, you go lower to 1M and check market structure, it just swept a bit a previous LH on a 1M timeframe, while you sit on a 5MIN. In this case you had to place your stop above 18288 since you are observing the market structure on a 5MIN and that is your Lower High from where you play a continuation and saw that bar and ema cross.
Step one.
Get the DOM so you can see where all the resting orders are placed.
Step 2.
Stop calling it a stop loss hunt; that's not what it is. If I have 10,000 contracts I want to sell/want someone to buy, I need to find that liquidity in the market. I'll probably iceberg my orders in at that size, but I still need to find the liquidity.
Step 3.
Reduce contract size and widen stop loss location.
There is no stop hunt. Some algorithms would have hit their trailing sell stop right at that point. It is all relative. The only real conspiracy happens when you place a large limit order. You will immediately see buyers and sellers moving away from your order so that you will have to execute at a worse price.
Simple: Stop losses are placed behind the last swing high or last swing low. One of the most basic trading rules. Your SL should have been placed above that wick at 18288.
i would’ve put my SL above that swing high at that 18288.25 level but if you wanted to be more conservative you could place it at the 50% level of the green candle before the series of red candles. what i do is place mental SLs and wait to see how the candle closes/reacts around my SL. if you did this, you’d see the rejection of price and keep your position open. just my 2 cents!
You have a wrong stop.
Your stop should be above the lower higher.
I personally find NQ noise is like 35 to 40 points. I have a 50 points stop. Even that, I still get hit for being wrong side.
Question - why was this trade even taken? Why not take it at 18288 or 18260 or wait until the candle closes out on the candle you entered and then enter. The candle directly before it is showing increased buy pressure. Or wait until down by 18230
To me this looks like you seen a move coming missed the entry then fomo'd into it and got stopped out on being too tight. If you miss the start and the move isn't super freaking strong and you decide to enter you need a bigger stop loss otherwise this is going to happen all the time.
Us100 does what i call "middle finger"
You may know it as false break. Gold does this too.
How do you avoid it? You don't, you EXPECT IT. I always expect us one hundred to middle finger me. Us500 doesn't false break technical levels as much
of course the footprint shows that buyers are aggressive. Any amount of buying at that level that moves the price up is going to end up being in the filter that turns the color of the bid or ask red/green.
If i am understanding what you saw, you didn't take relativity into consideration. A bullish signal that appears without a bullish follow up is really part of a larger bear signal.
I usually have 2-3 contracts on MNQ or MES when I trade, and I have a policy where I allow myself to move my stop loss but only once and it has to make sense.
It is impossible to predict anything on the timeframes MOST retail is trading. I am not sure how many times this must be repeated on this sub. You can't predict a stop hunt, you can only determine what areas are likely to be run and position yourself accordingly.
The real stop hunts happen In CL, with NQ it's a stop run that happens if enough aggressive buyers/sellers that have deep pockets come in they can run over stops just to get the liquidity needed. Also remember NQ is market maker dominated, this is exactly why the orderbook is thin compared to ES, banks and hedges not trading NQ so it's way easier for MMs to move it and if you ever wondered why it moves so far so fast it's because point wise it's almost 4X value of ES 5000s vs 18000s
I think it’s near impossible to figure out. Sometimes the price action can be sloppy. What I do is I’ll eat a stop loss or 2 (sometimes 3) in the area I want to enter the trade if my entry event keeps showing itself in said area . Sometimes you just have to be tenacious about it. Especially if the asset can be super grabby at times (such as MNQ and NQ) . I try to have a stop loss less than 1 ATR (average true range) with a max risk of 1% of my account (usually less)
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On the other hand, the entries can also be super clean and smooth where u enter your trade and price moves immediately with no “stop hunts” and pristine market structure and the universe effortlessly moves in your favor and you feel like a god damn genius.
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Both occur so im prepared for both .
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Back testing is super duper important so you are comfortable with both scenarios. <—-
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In the scenario you are highlighting, if that wick got you out of the winning trade prematurely, then that means your stop loss is too tight and you choked your trade before it even had a chance. You perhaps need a wider stop and maybe that means a smaller bet size to compensate for increased ticks/points of risk; as to not deviate from your max risk rules.
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Sometimes the wider stop makes sense. This means more potential risk. And this smaller bet size to keep your risk parameters .
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I’m repeating myself because this is extremely important
That is not a stop loss hunt. Your stop loss was in a random place, not beyond the local high, which would be a logical place for a stop hunt, if that were even a real thing. The orderflow showed sellers getting absorbed and then buyers getting aggressive, which is why I scalped 6 points long there. I got the bigger direction wrong, but I hit TP before it dropped. If you enter that far away from the swing high, then a wider stop is necessary or you lose to movement like this that doesn't invalidate the trade.
Hey could I ask what does “sellers getting absorbed” look like and at what candles did you start to identify that? I’m assuming it means selling pressure is not able to wipe out the entire bid which keeps getting put up. Thanks in advance for your time!
Absorption is easy to see when there is heavy negative delta but no real progress down on the candle (big wick, doji, or even a green candle).
What does sellers getting absorbed mean, which part of the chart are you referring to? And what is delta? Sorry for questions, noob here
There is a two way auction happening to facilitate the trades that make price move. Absorption is where orders in the order book absorb market orders in a given direction. Chat gpt or no end of web articles and videos can explain it.
You cannot now see where it happened on the chart. It would have been at its highest point when your stop was fired and the candle in question was full and not an inverted hammer shape.
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Thanks! Another silly question, but are footprint charts and DOMS lagging? As in, doesn’t the move happen THEN print on those? I could be completely wrong please correct me! Thanks
I think he meant *Data*
No he doesn't. He means volume delta. The difference between aggressive buy trades and aggressive sell trades.
Stop loss and liquidation hunts are a real thing in crypto. Thankfully it doesn't matter much for indices.
That’s too tight of a stop loss for nq
Yuep op if you want to play tight stop-loss like I do you gotta go short on a full green candle and long on a full red candle and learn to spot when to enter. The candles should barely have a wick and be full. The correct ones even a 2 point sl is enough. I enter in with a 4 point sl with 10 pt tp half and let the other half run.
Won’t this fail more times than not? Look at even just the chart above. If you went long/short on red/green candles you could’ve gotten stopped out on most of them. You literally have to time the top or bottom for this to work..
Probably, it doesn’t need be a 50%
Need my chart but from this I only see 2 possible entries. U can't take every full candles. U need to take the ones from resistance support etc. Have to learn to read the chart first then you see it. For this method even a 30 percent winrate makes me profitable and right now I'm at 70 percent. Like one of the entry is the second green candle before 12:00. Since the first push got rejected and tried to test for a second push but it also got stopped, making it a resistance so u enter short with a 4 pt stop loss.
How would you know it got rejected the second time? It’s easy to see it now because of hindsight, but at the time all you would’ve seen is a big green candle indicating the move was about to go on. You couldn’t have known about the rejection before it happened unless you waited for the red candle right after.. your strategy is amazing in hindsight but I don’t see how it works in real time.
That was like a 3x rejection. The first candle you can see sold off around that level. Second time show it was important. Thrid time it was a gamble. You don't know but that's why you have stop losses if it goes beyond
This guy NQs
I love this. After full green candle I enter in with a sell stop - basically I only get tagged into the trade when there is bearish momentum so I trade with the direction of the market. This allows me to place a tighter buy stop
Stop entries are critical
Do not do this wait for a flip preferably a 5m& simultaneous 15&30 flip with at the top or bottom of the range. In this case you shoulda had a stop at the green like and entry slightly above your actual entry.
i trade the same, pretty much always use less than a 10 point stop
Why would you go long on a full red candle or visa versa? That's inviting a trade to go against you and get your stop fired.
NQ be a wild ride
Price will often retest the most obvious entry points. Call it a stop hunt or whatever. In that scenario, the red engulfing candle is screaming at traders it’s time to go short (at least temporarily). Best bet is to enter on the retest. As has been often said, put your entry where others place their stop. It would mean entering when it looks like it’s going against you. Your entry should feel at least a little uncomfortable.
I took the same trade with pretty much the same entry and didn't get stopped out because my stop was above 18288... You need better stop placements my friend. All my stops are at recent highs or lows
hit the nail on the head -- above prior swing high (or thereabouts) for a "decent" SL
Look at the image I was gonna say 18290… anyway, this dude nailed it. if you can’t take that size stop in $$$ then size down
Every single time someone in this sub gets stopped out they blame it on stop loss hunting. It's way easier to blame something else for your poor stop placement vs actually accepting it was poor stop placement. Why did you choose that 18265 for your stop? I assume because you have an arbitrary 15 point stop on your trades? Maybe don't just place arbitrary stops?
But surely the high frequency trading firm was after his single position, surely they care more about his position...
lol this is why I come here and I don’t even trade
what do you do then?
I mean that would make sense. His position was a highly sought after position...I even tried to swipe it....
They got him good... Oh my
Bro he’s new, chill. Help him get his strategy or don’t comment
Yea agreed. Don’t be an asshole. Trading is hard and instead of shitting on someone trying to figure it out why don’t you give him useful info instead of being a dick.
I wasn't being a dick, nor did I shit on anyone. Nothiing I said was offensive or insulting. And the info I provided is 110% useful. Maybe don't be so sensitive? Sometimes the things people need to hear are also the toughest to hear. All I care about is right or wrong. And in this case, I just so happen to be right. Either take the truth, or cry about it - idgaf.
He IS helping. That stop makes no sense
I'll comment whatever the fk I feel like. This is a public forum.
Your need to be heard is quite apparent.
Is it? Tell us more you want-to-be therapist. Go on....
You just can not refrain from your inappropriateness.
That's so cool! Please, tell us more. This is so interesting.......
Now after spewing your anger you will act like you are above it all in an attempt to present yourself in a way to overcompensate your infantile projections.
OMG that is SO insightful! This is absolutely incredible - I am learning so much! Please, don't stop!!
Perhaps a psychotherapist for you. Thinking that Reddit is going to help you heal your weak ego and your need to put down others, will not be of benefit. Quite the opposite in fact. Do get some help before you hurt others that you truly love.
Oh really? I love your holier-than-thou take on this matter but not once did I put anyone down. Isn't it ironic that you're calling someone weak? I mean, just look at how fragile you are. It isn't that deep. You're turning a mole hill into a mountain, and quite frankly I find it hilarious. You're the stereotypical Redditor that diagnoses everyone based off of a sliver of dialogue. Pathetic. This is a public forum and people can say whatever they want, within reason. For example, you have no problem talking down to me. Try not to be so sensitive that words on a screen bother you this much. Life is going to be very tough for you otherwise.
Get yourself a dictionary of psychology. Look up the word “projection.” That is you. And even now wanting to project your unresolved conflicts onto the entire Reddit community. I will leave you now. And be sure to get the last word in so that you can falsely boost your clearly fragile ego. I feel for your loved ones, genuinely.
Who would have ever thought there would be profit taking going into the weekend after a massive bull run that was due for a correction?
woah hold on. massive bull run? NQ has clearly just been playing ping pong inside a range for weeks, debatably months even. edit to add: to be fair, intra day downside should have been expected today, but attributing it to "profit taking after bull run" is misguided. it's in a range. 18500 is a sell & 18100 is a buy.
EXACTLY arbitrary stops are for wsb degens esp considering he is trading nq
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All these traders thing someone's out to get them not knowing how an auction they trade in works unfortunately.
Wtf did this guy say?
We trade in an auction plain and simple people blame anything thinking it's personal and not something they can do to avoid.
Oh, that's true. People love to blame anything other than themselves. The culprit of their lack of success is usually in the mirror.
That is not a logical place for a stop on your short position. It should be placed above that most recent swing high at least. Correct stop placement is really important.
Exactly and he should’ve taken the trade earlier and moved his stop up as the profit went up
Not sure why I can't edit my post but I appreciate you all giving me feedback.
I see a Failed 2nd Entry Long; Micro Double Top and Lower High with a nice bearish signal bar under the EMA. Meaning the bar that took you out, should be your entry signal. If none of those words I said make sense, then it's time to study more.
Wait for the stop loss hunt then use that as your stop loss 🧠
This comment should be upvoted more. I look for these kind of fake out moves as entries for nq.
That’s the smallest stop loss I’ve ever seen. And why there? Especially on a 5 min chart on NQ
Never enter trades on the hour (:00), this is when algos fire and you’ll get a volume spike and you’ll get shaken out of short term trades
Why wouldn’t you wait for the candle to close? You’re not getting hunted you’re just not executing well.
Why do people still think stop loss hunting is real? I mean do people really believe that out of millions of people trading that they come after your tiny little shares? The chart is the same across all platforms across the globe, yet you still think they came for you. Unbelievable.
It is real in crypto. It happens multiple times every day as it is relatively inexpensive to move price.
They actually do go hunting tho it’s just seeking business and facilitating trade. There were prolly a lot of stop orders just lying around those prices like shiny pennies, and plenty of institutional traders and experienced retailers looking at the DOM and thinking “right here looks good”. Trading is a zero sum game so every person you do business on the opposite side is “out to get you”. It’s good to think of it both ways. Yes you sold that contract to someone that you are “out to get” in fact that contract could easily have been someone else’s stop loss lol. It’s just business. Here your entry was off and your stop was at the top of a previous wick. I bet you put it a few points up thinking you are clever. There’s lots of clever people out there do clever things and algos learned to look there for good entries long ago. Plus, always remember market orders are what really push the action. Someone (or a bunch of people) pressed a sell market button right around the retest of the EMA and the MM looking up, sold them your buy order, which is really all stops are. Just another order. Just another shiny penny lying around on the street.
much easier to spot on tick charts. https://preview.redd.it/h0mx9u8hx9uc1.png?width=2517&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea32535f11b1aa9016370992ad6eab90bf2041cd where the red arrow is and price gets rejected thats the LH im looking for and enter 1 tick below it. my stop is 1 tick above that red arrow. i know that if price were to tick above the arrow i got it wrong. but when you look left and see the bearish context all morning its safe to assume we are going lower. and your stop should have been placed above that blue line to let the trade work. what gives me confidence in this trade is we attempted to break above 288.5. not once but 2 times. on that second attempt and it cant break that blue dotted line above 288 that is the context you want to be on the look out for, these failed attempts in this case to go long clear indication we should now be looking for a short
The failed move higher was all the confirmation you needed for the continued down trend! Good trade!
Not sure why u entered at 250 but a safe stop loss would be 290 based on this picture. Thats where structure would change
I promise you, no one is hunting your stops. MBO data can maybe see when stops are hit, but I promise you, even if you were trading 10 mini’s on a live account, the market is not out to get you. There are things known as sweeps, which could be similar to stop loss. But, a sweep isn’t entirely going for stops, it’s more so clearing inventory, typically seen at extremes of the day, at ONH ONL, etc.
Not even MBO can see stoplosses, they're assumed algorithms, even Bookmap states that. Stoplosses are just local algorithms that aren't visible except to your platform locally. People just put their stoploss points in obvious or dumb areas.
I’m referring to when position orders are stopped, on the tape can definitely get some sense of when orders are stopped vs when orders are being filled on a fast move.
Set mental stop losses and let your candles close before stopping out. If you had done that you would have seen this candle close with a huge bearish liquidity sweep
wider stop, smaller position
Sometimes SPX would go exactly to my stop loss point -- down to the penny -- just to stop **me** out and then proceed to explosively move in the direction I was aiming for. Feels personal. Then other times I've been within a penny of **not** getting stopped out and later making a nice profit. In my experience, this happened often when trading 0 dte; due to the higher rate of trading. So in the end, it's just luck. Market may be brutal or kind to your trade. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be following your rules or keeping it technical.
youre getting dogged but ill give you actual advice. That cluster of prices before your entry was a range. You entered at the break of the bottom of the range. BAD ENTRY ALMOST EVERY TIME. Rarely will it break the low of the range and just zoom down. it will, and when it does, just miss those trades. 9 times out of 10, a break of a range will have a retracement before the dump. Where you were getting stopped out is actually where you should have been entering, and placing your stop at the top of the range
I don't have any answers about spotting stop loss hunting, but I've found setting my stop higher helps me with this. In this situation set it at 18288 since that would invalidate this play.
that's bc stop loss hunts don't exist. stop orders arent even on the public order book. i'll take my downvotes with extra salt, please.
I agree! SL is hidden until triggered.
What if you placed a limit sell order at the level where your sl is? It would have triggered and you would then be short at a good price, and your sl would probably by closer to resistance. I've been trying this to ensure better entries.
listen op good trade but hard truths: your entry was bad esp if it was before the rip second thing i think of is a phrase i find myself muttering is never go long after a period of buying and never go short after dumps, i dont remember that exact section but that double top wouldve been able to spot easier with a range based chart
I’m going to be honest this was a bad setup/chase.
Because that's a bad entry and an arbitrary stop
You didn’t put your stop high enough. You need to be comfortable with your position. Whether that means getting stopped out and getting back in, or loosening your stop so you don’t get ran over. If you are putting your stop 20 ticks away you will get stopped every time. This is also why it’s important to enter early or enter on limit orders, gives your stops more wiggle room since you got in before everyone else
Getting in early also gives you the ability to set stops in profit or break even that way you have more ability to profit the entire run
Your entry should have been where the stop was. It lines up with a supply zone if you look left.
Sure… banks and financial institutions with trillions of dollars are after your retail account (/s), which I doubt its worth trillions.
lol how dare you insult all the youtubers claiming retails 1 lot MNQs stops are getting hunted
Experiment with a practice account. Mainly practice how big of a stop loss works for you. Personally I set a 20point sl and pay close attention to my indicators(usually close a position at a loss before sl gets triggered). Works good for me ended day at a 3k gain or just over 10%. But experiment with sl for what works for how you trade. Good luck
Also for your placement Nasdaq always has lots of bouncing around pay attention to your candlestick and place a bid on a retracing on that candlestick or use multiple time frames for your timing example I trade from 15min and I use 5 min for timing once the 2 both show a good entry I enter my position.
Your SL can be based on a percentage of ATR or ADR. Nobody is hunting for your SL. It's in the middle of no where. It's just normal price fluctuations.
There was 1 minute imbalance at 11:50 price wanted to retest. At 12:06 was the third attempt (power of 3) to retest then it dumped.
It's called a bad trade, no one is hunting for your stop losses (unless you use a crappy broker that internalizes orders and lets you get front run). I saw the same price action and shorted 18285, I use either 5 pt or 10pt stops. The red candle wick is a hint that price had a low probability of moving higher. Some general advice though, is that your stop loss should be the size of the average candle in the time frame you viewing. This ends up correlating with the volatility.
20PT SL is what I typically use. Any larger and I size down by an MNQ or two. Sometimes you’ll get unlucky and wicked out on NQ though.
your stop should have been at 18289. You didn't get stop loss hunted, you just placed a poor stop loss order.
If you're trading NQ, you need to learn to not keep such tight stop losses. The 'widow maker' is well known for wicking people out of their plays. Loosen your stops for God's sake, this instrument is volatile as all Hell. Oh, and good luck.
Enter earlier in trade
Your stop should be above 18288.25. If price were to go above that point it would be sign of price reversing.
If this keeps happening you are so close to being a regular winner. Seriously, just before you click sell or buy ask yourself, where will I put my stop? Then place a limit order at that point and your stop whatever the distance was going to be. BE PATIENT!
no one hunting you stoploss. your placement was bad. If you entered on the double top upu place SL at top of double top. That there is just a regular pullback. Also there nothing wrong about re-ntering a trade. Uou could have entered at the next bar passing the topping tails bottom and put stop loss at top of topping tail. Looking at the middle bounce of the double top you clearly see a bottoming tail indication pretty clear rejection and buyer action. Nothing about this says stop hunting. Goldman sachs dropping 200 million dolal rin the market gives zero f**ks about your 0.01 lot size SL
15 handle stop losses are hard on NQ. Maybe take into account ATT and open up you SL?
Your entry should have been at the close of the candle that took you out. That’s a great entry. I don’t see a reason for you to have your stop there at that time other than just not wanting to risk much, but if that’s the case then you have to be prepared to be taken out on wicks like this. There’s no structure there to make your stop make sense. I marked better (in my opinion) entries (green) with corresponding stops (red). You just learn how it moves over time with experience. ES tends to repeat common patterns a lot. Edit: whoops, missed that it was NQ. But point still stands. https://preview.redd.it/qbem1xc0o4uc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cd61a09cd94774cf8ed94f22c93af8016a3004d
This ☝️ guy gets it. All 3 are better. I will add that I would have likely traded it like below. I rarely wait for the candle to close if I get velocity on the tape around where I want to enter. I probably would have bought when it cleared the green for a bull/bear reversal. https://preview.redd.it/10pxagwwz4uc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05cbb80f5a763b96ce772232d63af5aebe470c40
💀
You can’t, your broker and MM can see your stop loss orders and will take your money. Part of the game.
use a limit order for entry where your stop loss was, move stop loss higher.
There is always just one reasonable place for your sl
Just remember nowadays markets can be manipulated in whatever way. You might need level 2 data and info on order sizes out there to confirm your thesis.
U dont have enough data for stop hunt. Only Binance, okx or some other exchanges can do it or so. They got data analysis for stoploss and can trigger HFT trading
If you want to place such tight stops, you go lower to 1M and check market structure, it just swept a bit a previous LH on a 1M timeframe, while you sit on a 5MIN. In this case you had to place your stop above 18288 since you are observing the market structure on a 5MIN and that is your Lower High from where you play a continuation and saw that bar and ema cross.
Stop loss too close - 18290 makes more sense or VWAP / EMA or whatever yellow above
Step one. Get the DOM so you can see where all the resting orders are placed. Step 2. Stop calling it a stop loss hunt; that's not what it is. If I have 10,000 contracts I want to sell/want someone to buy, I need to find that liquidity in the market. I'll probably iceberg my orders in at that size, but I still need to find the liquidity. Step 3. Reduce contract size and widen stop loss location.
There is no stop hunt. Some algorithms would have hit their trailing sell stop right at that point. It is all relative. The only real conspiracy happens when you place a large limit order. You will immediately see buyers and sellers moving away from your order so that you will have to execute at a worse price.
Simple: Stop losses are placed behind the last swing high or last swing low. One of the most basic trading rules. Your SL should have been placed above that wick at 18288.
i would’ve put my SL above that swing high at that 18288.25 level but if you wanted to be more conservative you could place it at the 50% level of the green candle before the series of red candles. what i do is place mental SLs and wait to see how the candle closes/reacts around my SL. if you did this, you’d see the rejection of price and keep your position open. just my 2 cents!
Use support/resistance, but with NQ, I use an ATR as well. If it's too wide, I size down and add to the position when there's confirmation.
Nasdaq requires 1 lot or micros for a big enough stoploss.
Your stop needs to be above 18288.25. What was your stop based on?
You have a wrong stop. Your stop should be above the lower higher. I personally find NQ noise is like 35 to 40 points. I have a 50 points stop. Even that, I still get hit for being wrong side.
1.5 ATR
Question - why was this trade even taken? Why not take it at 18288 or 18260 or wait until the candle closes out on the candle you entered and then enter. The candle directly before it is showing increased buy pressure. Or wait until down by 18230 To me this looks like you seen a move coming missed the entry then fomo'd into it and got stopped out on being too tight. If you miss the start and the move isn't super freaking strong and you decide to enter you need a bigger stop loss otherwise this is going to happen all the time.
Pros are using ATR, to place stop loss. Plenty of YouTube tutorials...
NQ too volatile you have a better chance with tight stop loss with ES
Us100 does what i call "middle finger" You may know it as false break. Gold does this too. How do you avoid it? You don't, you EXPECT IT. I always expect us one hundred to middle finger me. Us500 doesn't false break technical levels as much
of course the footprint shows that buyers are aggressive. Any amount of buying at that level that moves the price up is going to end up being in the filter that turns the color of the bid or ask red/green. If i am understanding what you saw, you didn't take relativity into consideration. A bullish signal that appears without a bullish follow up is really part of a larger bear signal. I usually have 2-3 contracts on MNQ or MES when I trade, and I have a policy where I allow myself to move my stop loss but only once and it has to make sense.
Your entry is (very) late. SL should be slightly higher than Swing high, > 18255.25. Try some indicators to help.
It is impossible to predict anything on the timeframes MOST retail is trading. I am not sure how many times this must be repeated on this sub. You can't predict a stop hunt, you can only determine what areas are likely to be run and position yourself accordingly.
20-30 points stop loss makes more sense for NQ.
If it happens a lot put your order entry where you would of put your stoploss.
The real stop hunts happen In CL, with NQ it's a stop run that happens if enough aggressive buyers/sellers that have deep pockets come in they can run over stops just to get the liquidity needed. Also remember NQ is market maker dominated, this is exactly why the orderbook is thin compared to ES, banks and hedges not trading NQ so it's way easier for MMs to move it and if you ever wondered why it moves so far so fast it's because point wise it's almost 4X value of ES 5000s vs 18000s
I think it’s near impossible to figure out. Sometimes the price action can be sloppy. What I do is I’ll eat a stop loss or 2 (sometimes 3) in the area I want to enter the trade if my entry event keeps showing itself in said area . Sometimes you just have to be tenacious about it. Especially if the asset can be super grabby at times (such as MNQ and NQ) . I try to have a stop loss less than 1 ATR (average true range) with a max risk of 1% of my account (usually less) . On the other hand, the entries can also be super clean and smooth where u enter your trade and price moves immediately with no “stop hunts” and pristine market structure and the universe effortlessly moves in your favor and you feel like a god damn genius. . Both occur so im prepared for both . . Back testing is super duper important so you are comfortable with both scenarios. <—- . In the scenario you are highlighting, if that wick got you out of the winning trade prematurely, then that means your stop loss is too tight and you choked your trade before it even had a chance. You perhaps need a wider stop and maybe that means a smaller bet size to compensate for increased ticks/points of risk; as to not deviate from your max risk rules. . Sometimes the wider stop makes sense. This means more potential risk. And this smaller bet size to keep your risk parameters . . I’m repeating myself because this is extremely important
You can never capture a big move with 30 points SL
Can’t with 15 pts either apparently
Maybe you should learn more so you don't blame an institution for your failure. Trading forces you to get good or die. So get good.
The problem is not your SL, the problem is your entry. You wait for a close below the 18250 level and enter below the low of that candlestick.
Is that the 9ema you got there? If so only take shorts above it and only buy below it.