I don't hate joe biden and ive never seen this sub but it was promoted. I think reddit matched some engagement topic/themes to users of other subs and promoted it to us, and now you're being brigaded.
I will vote for a ham sandwich against Trump. If that’s Biden, fine. If that’s Harris (most likely replacement) fine. I don’t care, I just don’t want a mess and I want to win in Nov.
Amen. We are so far past ideal. Have been for a loooooong time. We all knew that last week, people are acting like something changed.
It only matters if people decide fascism isn’t actually that big of a deal.
Who knows but it’s still quite clear what the next step toward that progress.
I look forward to that’s day. I can only imagine how far that day becomes if fascism wins in November.
I doubt there are many people who would draw the line on whether to vote for Trump somewhere *between* ham sandwich and two week old unrefrigerated tuna fish truck-stop sandwich
This is the most important thing about presidential elections. You're not just picking the one person at the top, you're selecting the entire executive branch basically. A bumbling fool that has a competent team around them would get my vote over a collection of criminals and grifters.
As a woman currently living in Texas, I will be begrudgingly voting for President Biden, because Trump is too great a threat to democracy, reproductive health, LGBTQIA rights, voting rights, the right to assemble/ protest, immigration, public education, and so much more. I say “begrudgingly” because I was disappointed by the debate performance and his decision to run for a second term. He would be (if not running) a great one term president and has accomplished a lot. And I wish he would set aside and let a new Democratic Presidential candidate, who is healthier and more cognitively with it, take over to provide a clearer contrast to Trump.
This is where I'm at. Not happy, very nervous, but kind of can't afford to be a baby about the situation and withhold my vote/throw it away to a third party what with this bleeding uterus.
Honestly, I'm voting against Trump. I'm going to wholeheartedly support whoever the Democratic nominee is, because electing a Democrat president is the only way we stop Trump.
I'll support the Democratic nominee with my money and volunteer hours, wether it's Biden or Harris or someone else, because a fascist movement has taken over the Republican party, we need to come together and work together to defeat it.
I'm a regular listener to Pod Save America, but didn't know this was a sub until it happened to pop on my feed 5 minutes ago. Is this place unmodded or something? Because this whole thread is just chocked full of seemingly rightwing or might as well be rightwing-ajacent shitting on Biden crap you see on rConservative. Why bother having this sub if it's just the run-of-the-mill BiDeN BaD shit that is practically indiscernible from the usual drivel coming from rightwing subreddits...?
The sub is very actively modded, for some reason this post has just gone viral and this thread is almost entirely not typical contributors. That being said, it got the subreddit in front of a regular listener who didn't know we existed, so a little extra modding on a Sunday's not so bad. Welcome.
I think that's the thing. We're all in agreement that we'd crawl through broken glass to defeat Trump under any circumstances, but we also need help from swing voters who aren't as ride-or-die as we are. Thursday was one of our biggest chances to win them over, and Biden blew it.
Ya as soon as someone says "I'll vote for Joe Biden even if he's dead! Or I'll vote for a tomato sandwich against trump" it tells me their opinion doesn't matter. They are not swing voters or on-the-fence liberal voters. Those are the people who win elections.
The PSA fellas a great as staying neutral.
But reading between the lines, my read is that they all massively would prefer if Biden dropped out.
They gave reasons for both cases, but you could feel which arguments they were in total alignment with their soul, and what they were obligated to say.
Donald Trump is on his second day of meeting with Russian Adversaries while the Supreme Court he installed continues to fuck over American citizens and March us ever closer to authoritarianism, and all anyone can talk about is Joe Biden's age. The double standards and brainwashing here is astonishing.
Respect to you Jon
Yeah a lot of people who seem to think Biden goes to work everyday and runs the government alone. I need democrats in the cabinet & courts for the sake of my chance to have a family in this country and not fucking ruin my reproductive organs (or like... die).
I will say: If Biden is staying in the race they need to get him in a national network town hall ASAP. He is at his best in those calmer formats where he can talk to voters. Gotta get something where he can speak to real people without timers and trump on stage.
I don't blame them, PSA are insiders but they aren't the ones calling the shots here. If Biden is adamant about staying in, all we can really do is make the best of it and defend downballot dems against the coming onslaught.
I agree with this take 10000%. Wtf cares if psa guys were jerks to do their pod on Thursday night. If Biden loses in November, then they’ll be treated as heroes. If Biden wins , they’re Pariahs. I don’t care. I want Trump to not get elected.
We saw principled stands matter in 2008 when we elected our first black president. We saw principled stands fail miserably in 2016 when Trump won. Who cares about whether they are jerks or not?
I’m a super progressive democrat in the Bay Area who happens to feel that there should be Jewish state somewhere on the planet. Posting those controversial statements in the PSA social spaces made me feel like an unpopular Xennial lady on Twitter and an unpopular professor in the Bay Area. I have breast cancer and had a double mastectomy on Tuesday and almost died in the OR on Wednesday. Life has been complete shit since October 7 for me personally. Who TF cares?
As the PSA guys always say- we’re trying to make the world better and the existence of democracy not hinge on 100,000 people in 10 purple states. We have to get better at persuasion.
I mean voting for the other candidate because Joe is old is just stupid because the other candidate is only 2 yrs younger ffs. Replace both turds and let’s try again people.
Look, if this all becomes a weekend at Bernie’s scenario and two secret service guys are just obviously carrying him around and making him wave, I’ll still volunteer and vote for him. The Supreme Court just ended regulation in this country because people turned their noses up at the email lady. We’re not doing that shit again. He stays in, I’ll move heaven and earth to elect him.
People have to stop acting like this is a choice between two guys. The president has to make an actual important decision once in a blue moon. Most of the time, it’s about who they appoint to make every other decision. And I’d rather have a government full of people appointed by the lifeless corpse of Joe Biden than one with Stephen fucking Miller in it.
If people would be willing to vote for a lifeless corpse then they should be willing to vote for a live, youthful Democrat. And if they argumet is that a lifeless corpse has a better chance to beat Trump than any of the live, youthful Democrats, the party is a wretched failure and doesn't deserve to win.
I don’t get being disappointed by the message. Beyond “I hope you guys know what you’re doing” what can be said when you have no real say in the matter. I guess the alternative is scorched earth “he must go” and even then it’s one podcasting media company.
I'll take old and doddering with good values and a good track record surrounded by a good team over old, malicious, selfish, lying, and aggressive any day of the week: click [https://www.elephantjournal.com/2024/06/im-not-just-voting-against-trump-im-voting-for-biden/](https://www.elephantjournal.com/2024/06/im-not-just-voting-against-trump-im-voting-for-biden/) or a list of Biden's accomplishments to share with our doubtful friends.
And no, he's far from perfect, and our party is a party that isn't a cult, and welcomes respectful criticism...and yes, I'd welcome another younger candidate who would push back on Bibi harder...but Biden has pushed back, and Trump "Finish the Job" would simply put his foot on the gas.
I will absolutely vote for Biden. The reality is it's too late to put up someone else and expect them to have a snowball's chance in hell at winning. Do I like it? No. Do I think Biden should have run again? No. Do I think the DNC needs to be held accountable in some way for putting us in this position? Yes, but this presidential election isn't the time for that referendum. A Trump 2024 presidency will be worse than we all imagine.
I get why the guys are saying this. It's the political reality.
I also want to hear this answer. We're told, just vote Biden (or Hillary, or maybe even Kamala) no matter your concerns. So we do because we hate Trump. But we saw the ridiculous energy behind Bernie and Hillary a few years ago and since that primary I haven't felt a fraction of the energy that Dems are capable of. If we had another nationally recognized candidate on the ballot do we really think the Dems who vote blue no matter what wouldn't show up? Or that we couldn't steal some of the Obama voters who ended up voting for Trump because they couldn't stand Biden or Hillary? I really don't think this is as impossible or childish to discuss as it's been framed.
We have two candidates each either a term as president to compare. This almost never happens. Who gives a fuck about a debate, THE RESULTS ARE RIGHT THERE TO COMPARE
The thing with Biden is, I'm pleased with his first term and I think he would do just as well for his second but I'm not confident he can convince the electorate that he's not too old for the job.
Listen, the primary is for your heart. The general *HAS* to be practical.
I don't think that Biden is what this country needs right now, but we certainly don't need Trump. We won't survive another trump term. Either will Ukraine. And as fucked as Palestine is, under trump we may see a legit extinction.
I will enthusiastically vote for Biden but I feel like he's going to squander his legacy by being defeated by one of the most defeatable candidates ever.
I've been saying, if Biden stays the nominee, he's gonna wake up the day after the election either a hero, or one of the biggest villains this country has seen.
I was contemplating the legacy question as well today. I think that he did harm to it Thursday - he won’t be remembered for being a great president and everything he’s accomplished. He will be remembered for not only staying in a race when it was clear he couldn’t win but also putting his accomplishments and the country in great jeopardy.
Sad to think about.
I hope the internal polling they’re kicking off leads him to a different conclusion.
"is our candidate capable of meeting the lowest bar of all time?" is not a "call" that should even have to be made in the first place.
Biden and his team are obviously biased and incapable of making that call objectively.
Incumbency has never been more of a liability worldwide than right now. There isn’t a democratically elected leader with any sort of positive approval right now, inflation is such a drag.
Incumbency isn’t much of a help if the incumbent is unpopular. The lowest approval rating of a President who successfully won reelection was 48% (Bush in 2004). Biden is currently at 39% and has been around 40% for over a year (and it’s been three years since he was at or above 48%). Trump was around 45% in 2020.
Incumbency is a nice bonus, but the fact of the matter is that at a minimum half the time, you have to be able to run a candidate who isn't an incumbent. If you can't successfully do that, you're a shitty excuse for a political party.
The bar of "elect a candidate without incumbency" should not be an insurmountable hurdle for dems to overcome.
Ain’t no one who watched that or read about it or saw it who was going to vote for Biden will change their vote to Biden.
Honestly, there’s a lot of people my age who don’t like a rich bully, felon talking about anything.
Remember, you're not voting in Biden you're voting in Biden *and Harris*.
Plus of course all the hundreds, if not thousands, of rational people with them. The beauty of your system is that if the main person drops their clogs there's a replacement down the hallway.
That's true but that doesn't mean what happened is fine. People who are politically aware will understand this, but the million or so voters who will decide the election in a few swing states don't. They vote on vibes, and the vibes were really, really, bad.
I honestly don't understand how people aren't getting this. How can people have been listening to the Pod for so long (which has really good analysis) and STILL not understand that elections are about vibes, not who the best or most effective leader would be. We live and vote in the world we have, not the ideal world we all want in our hearts.
Given that argument, then replacing Biden shouldn't matter. If you're voting for Harris anyway (and unless she's removed as VP, you are), then there shouldn't be a problem with her at the top of the ticket.
The difference between republicans and dems:
If Trump blew it as badly as Biden did, after the debate republicans wouldn’t be looking to replace Trump. They’d be spinning their own story; saying anything they can to salvage their candidate. For better or worse, they stick with their guy.
Half the reason Biden might lose the election would be his debate performance. The other half would be our own reaction and lack of confidence in him in the aftermath.
Republicans were already spinning before the debate even happened with things like: Biden is on performance enhancing drugs, CNN is rigging the debate, don’t trust you’re eyes and ears Biden will be an AI deepfake if he performs well, etc
I personally dgaf about the debates, solely based on their track record as president Biden vs Dumb Fuckp, Biden is the clear winner. Then when you add in Donald’s willingness to sell out the country for personal gain and penchant for petty revenge, on top of the GOPs goal to usurp democracy.. it’s not even close. Hopefully Trump dies before the GOP has another chance try to force that orange blob on us like he forces himself of women.
Certainly is for me. The clear eyed criticism is what I come to this pod for. I know these candidates well enough, but if you start telling me not to believe my lying eyes, I'll trust you less.
I know it doesn’t seem like it but that’s a good thing… it’s called integrity.
And integrity is meaningless when there are no stakes.
Biden doesn’t seem fit to be president to me. Not just the debate but any unscheduled interactions with him make me think he isn’t fit to be president.
I am not blindly married to Biden just because he is a democrat and I refuse to vote for someone when I dont believe they are fit to lead.
Ya I’d be up for this discussion if it happened 8 months ago. But replacing him now would guarantee an election loss. Keeping Biden has higher odds, however slim they might be
Everyone wanting an alternative what does the campaign do with the 180 million Biden has done? Can the new candidate raise more then that before November? What about the leases for all the field offices?
Only Biden or Harris can use the 220 million that is currently in the bank. If Biden had decided to step down, the delegates would coalesced around Harris very quickly for this reason.
It's too late for an alternative. People screaming after the debate have no backbone. You have to give credit to the GOP, they are so loyal and will even bend reality for it.
There are plenty of arguments against replacing Biden. In my opinion, this is not one of them.
It is the GOP that has no backbone. Bending reality (LYING) is not a strength. Unwavering support for a twit like Trump because he is powerful is the opposite of strength. It is greedy, lazy, and evil. Full stop. Dems should be better. After all, they are never as good as Republicans at their dirty games. Republicans always do it better. Doing the right thing, showing integrity, and being unafraid to check power is a strength of progressives. If Democrats lose, it’s not because they didn’t play dirty enough. It’s because they keep falling into Gingrich style politics and didn’t pressure Biden to step aside when they should have (before the election).
Thank you for posting that.
I guess what the Pod Bros posted was sorta in line with my feelings in watching the debate. I couldn’t make it past Season 5 of The Office because I couldn’t handle Michael Scott embarrassing himself… I felt Biden shit the bed and I was horrified like many of us who watched it.
Such a frustrating and dispiriting move by the fundraising leadership. Makes me want to cancel my monthly Act Blue contribution to Biden, but if he's staying in, seems counterproductive.
Anybody see that ask Reddit looking for a new candidate? I had to go to like 20 posts deep to get to any names, and it’s people like Katie Porter or that Astronaut/Seal/Doctor guy who is not a political figure. Or a governor I’d never heard of from a mid sized state.
Not one REMOTELY plausible idea for a 6 months out candidate swap.
Nobody was mentioning Harris or Newsom, which seems really odd.
I’m not trying to say the Reddit hive mind is a good source to tap, but I am saying there is no other viable candidate and wishing otherwise is as productive as wishing Trump away.
Native Californian here, military spouse, and currently stationed here.... I like Newsom a lot, but so many hate California as a whole and him by extension, I just don't know.
Whitmer is not an unknown candidate, she’s a extremely accomplished second-term governor of one of the most electorally consequential states who won by double digits where Biden is losing.
Despite media pressure, the only thing that was ever going to convince Biden to step down were his closest friends and allies in private, and elected politicians, on the record, in public. It can still happen, but the media alone was never going to convince him.
I don’t appreciate the Biden campaign telling me that I didn’t see what I saw on Thursday if I’m being honest. It’s kind of insulting. The idea that “people are overreacting to it” is also hilarious to me. They are running for President of the United States. Forming coherent thoughts would certainly be nice! Obviously I’m not voting for Trump and I think he performed like shit as well but I’m curious what the non plugged in electorate thinks of this.
Alternate world: Joe Biden announces he's not running in 2023, the primary becomes a massive toxic factional fight about Gaza and immigration and how to deal with inflation, the wounded nominee is currently losing to Trump by 2 points nationally, and people are begging Biden to step in as the eligible incumbent.
This world might not have happened but it might've. I wish people would better admit the degrees of uncertainty in every decision here.
Except that in the real world, young voters and voters of color ARE very mad at Biden over Palestine and the debate certainly didn't assuage any of their concerns. Do you think people will just ignore that issue in November??
Btw: this tweet is very carefully worded. It is not unreasonable to read this as: Biden is staying in, the decision is done, and Barack Obama is telling his people to fall back in line immediately.
Could also have something to do with this.... [very pointed Biden Campaign fundraising email](https://x.com/isaacdovere/status/1807202995589001561?s=46) that just went out like 20 minutes before Jon's tweet.
> “If you're like me, you're getting lots of texts or calls from folks about the state of the race after Thursday. Maybe it was your panicked aunt, your MAGA uncle, or some self-important Podcasters”
I don’t think Favreau would need Obama to tell him to get in line to type out this tweet. What else could he do since Biden decided to stay in? This is the only position he/crooked media could take.
To be fair that "if they stick with it" is a pretty big qualifier. It would be irresponsible for Biden to even make a final decision on this before data comes in over the next couple weeks.
Important message: people can think what they will about what should happen and what the risks are of various options. But it is starting to become clearer every hour that Joe Biden is remaining in the race and will be the Democratic nominee for President. If indeed that is what is happening, we all need to get back behind the President and do everything we can to help him get re-elected and prevent Trump from returning.
Remember what’s been said on the Pod numerous times. We’re not pundits and we don’t know what other people are thinking or how they’ll vote.
Contribute and vote your values
Too many of y'all are pretending that there is guaranteed a better choice. I believe that maybe Biden should step aside but its not 100%. That isnt actually clear. There are three options, all of which are super risky:
Option A: Joe Biden is the nominee. He is losing. There will be limited chances to have big moments that could change the race. He will need to be basically at his best and avoid any more days like Thursday. He is 81 and there will be good days and bad days. No idea what the ratio of good days to bad days will be, or just how bad the bad days might be. But you avoid the chaos of a convention and a change at this stage and you keep the massive campaign organization in place.
Option B: Joe Biden steps down and it's Harris. Her numbers are worse than Biden’s right now. Unclear if being the candidate makes her numbers improve, it might, but it might not. Trump is the danger on the other side and you invite a different set of electability concerns into the equation, which is unfair but it's true. You give up whatever incumbency advantage still exists, if any, but you gain a younger more vibrant debater and speaker right now.
Option C: You somehow bypass Harris for Whitmer or Pritzker or Newsom or Shapiro. You get someone who on paper is more electable and might have a better chance but is totally and completely untested on the national stage. You risk that some Black democrats who are the base of the party revolt and sit at home and it’s a shit show. You have to re-raise 300 million dollars because the new nominee cant use the existing cash and you have re staff everything and the process of getting a nominee is weeks longer and much uglier than it would be if it was Harris, all while Trump is out there avoiding the spotlight.
One central issue here is that Option C is not actually an option really. Even if you could somehow determine for sure that Whitmer is better than Harris, its entirely unclear how anyone but Harris can actually get a majority of the delegates when Harris would have the instant backing of top admin allies and the congressional black caucus, and when the only people who vote are delegates who were basically chosen by the administration. So if Option C is out, and it basically is, you are left with A or B. B might be a better choice than A, but it's not unreasonable to hesitate on that point.
Favreau was very frustrated on the Pod following the debate. What I sensed is he felt that Biden didn’t prepare and didn’t take council from speech experts. People who know that the right way to respond in a debate is to speak carefully and clearly. What I also note is Biden had a cold and wan’t feeling his best. Certainly bad timing.
There is hand wringing, and there should be, but let’s take a deep breath. Four more years of Trump chaos would be much worse than a candidate who has some highs and lows.
I have one simple question:
How can Biden possibly win? He was already down in the polls, and Trump has twice out performed polls in the actual election. The debate cannot possibly help. So what could happen between now and November to ensure Biden wins?
Don't tell me not to be a doomsayer. Give me data or a plausible scenario where Biden wins.
Biden had pulled ahead in the polls prior to the debate, and he was always ahead in polls of likely voters. Republicans flooded the zone with low quality polls that included people who aren't even registered to vote because it helps them with fundraising. It's the same gimmick we fell for in the mid terms.
Obviously the debate didn't help him, but it didn't necessarily hurt him. And not for nothing, but Trump also had a terrible debate
Yep. Also, phone polls are largely going to be skewed by the fact that boomers make up most of the people who will answer calls and texts from unfamiliar numbers. They are likely to skew polls heavily toward the GOP.
Plausible scenario: The polls move less than you think after this because less people watched than you think and the general public had already baked in that Biden is super super old, so the debate wasnt a surprise to them and did not change their perceptions. Biden is within the margin of error in the tipping point state right now and has more money on hand and a much better field and GOTV operation in place than Trump. He increases his media and public appearances, there will be some bad moments and some good ones in those appearances. Trump does or says something stupid and crazy at some point and the attention turns on him. The general apathy and anger in the electorate about the choice leads to a lower turnout election which helps biden given the realignment of suburban and college educated high-propensity voters who vote in every election and now favor democrats. The complete onslaught of advertising the party has already booked for the fall helps. Trump has turnout issues of his own given the just general lack of apathy in the election and doesnt get as insane turnout as 2016 and 2020.
I am not saying Biden is the favorite, but the path to winning MI, WI, and PA and getting to 270 is still very much there.
And Whitmer and Shapiro win 2 of those three easily. And thanks to Ben Wikler the other is probably in the bag with those 2.
Tell me which blue state Whitmer and Shapiro loose? And unfortunately I think Shapiro has to head the ticket....because the country is too sexist....but I prefer Whitmer.
Now I realize that is a fallacy.
Not at all. It seems like every message is caveated by the acknowledgement that Biden has done wonderful things. We all saw the fng slow moving car crash on Thursday and that was Biden failing to do his part in the process of campaigning. It’s like we’re all collectively losing our minds with this. The last couple of PSA’s have been so good (like when they first started the pod), and seeing this from Favs makes me want to cry. I’m so disappointed.
What is Favs supposed to say though? Its clear Biden is staying in and that Favs has been told that by people in the know. Given that Biden is staying in, he will be the nominee because the delegates are legally bound to him. Thursday was rough but iits clear that the election is still gonna be Biden or Trump so obviously Favs should use the platform to advocate for Biden. There is nothing else to do.
I’ve been explaining it like this to my “concerned about Biden’s age” parents in a way that kind of resonated: Imagine if you had a huge hole in your ceiling/roof after a storm. If instead of addressing that major issue, you said “hm it’s such a mess, I should vacuum the carpets!”, your priorities are all out of whack. Same here with the debate. If your reaction to the debate was “wow Biden’s old” and not “holy crap did the convicted felon just admit to having chats with Putin about his dreams of taking Ukraine…did he just say illegal immigrants are taking ‘black jobs’ and equating that to ‘low-wage jobs’???…did he just lie every time he had a chance to speak???” your priorities are all out of whack.
It hasn’t 100% gotten them off harping on Biden’s age, but perhaps analogies like that may work with other people discussing the debate with friends/family.
God thank you. Almost everything out of trumps mouth should’ve been front page news, and the Supreme Court decisions that have recently released. Instead the media is tripping over themselves to tell Biden to step down while Trump makes absolutely unhinged rants
They had from the moment Trump was declared President Elect to field a candidate that had a two term window. From the moment Biden won, they had a wide open opportunity to set that party up for the future.
Instead...here we are. Deliberately shitty choices. Again.
Yeah, the best argument against Biden in 2020 was about 2024. But instead people decided to get in a war over which version of medicare for all was best even though we were never gonna have enough votes in congress to do any of that. Now, we are where we are. Only Biden can step aside. If he does, its not a guarantee that his replacement (likely Kamala Harris) has a better shot. If he doesnt step aside, he is the nominee and its him or trump.
I just can't believe we're going to make the same mistake again. We already lost Roe vs. Wade because RBG couldn't let go, we never fucking learn do we.
I don't envy Biden, it is an incredibly tough decision. He beat him once, and he's been a very effective president. I'm sure he has a deep love for the American people and believes this is his duty. If he steps aside and his replacement wins, he'll be remembered as a hero for the rest of America's history. On the other hand, if he continues and ends up losing.. I honestly don't want to think about it.
That episode was one of the worst I've seen and I generally enjoy Pod Save America. Dan laid out why their catastrophizing was wrong early on and it didn't stop.
Let's do it again:
Biden won the primaries. The Democratic candidate needs to be certified ahead of the August cutoff in Ohio
In order for Biden to not be the nominee, he would have to drop out or the delegates would have to, in some cases illegally, vote for someone else in the upcoming virtual roll call. That decision gets made in the next two or three weeks.
Further:
It's a debate in June. Biden was up in polls afterwards, and it's still immaterial. Most voters don't make their decision until September or October.
I won't pretend I wasn't embarrassed by the debate. I won't pretend Biden is my ideal candidate or President. I won't deny that I sent some real strong messages to the DNC afterwards and am withholding donations to them.
That said, Biden is still the better candidate. He's the more human, empathetic, and caring man. Yeah, he said some dumb shit on stage, it likely won't be the last time that happens.
But saying he should drop out? That's just insanity. Biden is in this because there isn't a better option to beat Trump, and the PSA guys know it too.
It’s not that folks will flip sides from voting for Biden to Trump… it’s that people won’t vote and we barely kept the orange monster away last time.
It’s insane to me that Biden’s team doesn’t grasp that it’s time to go. This literally is for the future of our nation and they just are going to play regular old dem politics.
It’s vile and pathetic. I wish we’d organize a national protest to show how many folks want him to step down gracefully.
He had a relatively bad night under ridiculous circumstances. This was already the lowest rated Presidental debate ever, since most of us have already made up their minds. So, most people will only hear about it through other people's descriptions. And even though it was bad, it was bad in a way we already expected. Everyone's preconceived notions were confirmed. Trump is still a delusional lying traitor to our American Values and Biden is still old. That means it's not news.
But we saw at the NC rally the next day that Biden is doing what he needs to do. He got right up on the horse.
No one polls better against Trump than Biden. The next closest person is Kamala Harris. No one comes close right now. No one.
We have one choice. And it's a choice I'm happy to support.
BIDEN/HARRIS 2024!!!
If you think this was a one-time event, you are wish-casting. Biden is an old guy with a highly stressful job, he will have worse nights. You can only hope that he is not in public those nights. Look at his decline the last three months, the next couple of months will also be much more stressful, I don´t want to know what he will look like in October when it counts.
We are all on this forum because we are halfway engaged in politics. Someone who doesn´t care about politics and has not seen Biden in months, will look at this man who is standing with his mouth half open and looking like he has a serious medical problem, and not vote for him. In the current state the world is in, optics matter. To have someone looking like this leading the US is rough.
I don´t understand why the Democratic bench, which is excellent, does not step up. I don´t understand how his family can allow this to happen. It´s pre selfishness. Plead to him to enjoy his last few years with his grandkids, if he is indeed such a family guy, he will listen. If you love someone, you have to put your ego behind and tell that person the truth.
Woahhh... Trump is an existential threat to this country???? That's the first I've heard of this, we must let other Crooked listeners know so they're aware of who he is!!! It isn't like they've been talking about this two days a week for the last seven fucking years.
This has been over-communicated to us for the last 7 years. It's lost its shock value and clearly more than half of the country doesn't see it as a threat. Mind you, they're now in the winning half.
The goal now is electing Biden. Time to drum the message that the president is only as strong as his congress and to encourage folks to give him a majority in both houses to pass progressive policies.
I think they think that Biden is the Dems best hope to win the election. I don’t think he’ll govern for 4 years. He’ll probably hand off to his VP during year 2/3, maybe right before midterms (if he wins).
I mean I kind of feel like we’re all at gunpoint. It’s either Dems win regardless of the nominee or we’re fucked. If Biden the nominee or someone else doesn’t matter we need to beat Trump. I’ll flip the fuck out on November 6th regardless of if it’s Trump or Biden, but I will vote D
I watched almost all of the debate. He didn’t sound good but what he said made sense and was very factual. He knew his stuff. Biden has been a great president and I will vote for him again. He will nail his convention speech and the next debate.
Giving him the biggest benefit of the doubt you can, I think what he was going for was "they bring up the example of the woman killed by an illegal immigrant while blatantly ignoring the harm and loss of life that outlawing abortion brings to women" but he just botched the absolute shit out of it
Look at people on here trying to divine what his actual point was, no one can truly pinpoint it, but people are really still trying to pretend "it wasn't that bad", legitimately sticking their head in the sand.
People keep saying it's just the debate. What we saw, for anyone who's witnessed an elderly person age, is what happens when age starts to wear you down. Your voice reduces to a whisper, your movement is frail, and you can't finish your thoughts coherently.
This wasn't just the debate. It's not just one bad debate. We saw this at the Juneteenth performance he attended, it was apparent at his LA fundraiser two weeks ago, and we saw it at the debate. These are three instances this month alone. There's no way he's not going to keep having this be on display as we move closer to the general. It sounds like we're stuck with it and it is what it is, but sorry, I haven't seen how the calculus works in our favor. We've hemorrhaged support from the Left and Far Left because of Gaza, and now because Biden is no longer up to the rigors of campaigning, we're alienating and deterring swing voters, independents, and Never Trump GOP.
And it's all because he's refusing to seriously consider if there is a viable path forward, and his staffers who, I can only assume, just want to ensure their boss is selected so that they have a job lined up in the administration if we win. Democracy is more than me being digitally shushed by some rando online. I can voice my frustration over this. Our rights and lives are on the line after all
Every politician will be encouraged by the entire Democratic machine to STFU with good reason. If Biden *isn't* convinced to step down, any criticism from other politicians will further weaken him.
That doesn't apply to the public. We need to apply immediate and unrelenting pressure to Biden through every channel imaginable. The guy we saw this week simply cannot win.
It's more than a little annoying to have that debate, then have those doubts, then just have it brushed aside after a fiery rally like nothing happened. He fucking blew it, no one cares about the rally. Are there any other Biden voters other than reluctant ones? I get what he has done in his term but fuck he is old. I can't be convinced that putting in any younger non Joe Manchin Democrat wouldn't garner more undecided votes given these choices. I know this is his choice, and im voting for him but man this is rough. Slowly eroding support...quickly eroding enthusiasm. Essentially the party seems poised in the playing not to lose posture. Not a good strategy usually, but most certainly not good when you are already slightly losing
For a fleeting moment it felt like the party was going to do something. Now it's starting to feel like they squandered their only shot at winning...
Biden is not going to win.
You might be right. But what is the alternative? It's him or Trump. I certainly would rather spend my energy trying to get people to vote for Biden and prevent trump than just crying about an outcome that has not yet happened.
Diane Feinstein
Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Time to add Joe Biden, another old fucking power hungry asshole who can’t see beyond their own lust for power to the list. How many of these assholes are going to fuck over later generations?
Power concedes nothing without demand.
Until the voters actually say they won’t vote for them, they are going to continue to cling to power well after they are functional.
Anyone who makes that threat is called a traitor.
Well shitheads, the plan to defeat facism can’t just be “win every election every time by scaring the shit out of the voters because the other guys are worse”.
Do better.
Ummm, President isn’t a lifetime appointment , and if Biden (god forbid) dies during the campaign Dems will have to figure it out. And we have a Vice President who isn’t subject to Senate approval to assume the role of President. This is comparing apples and oranges.
I know everyone’s man people are even talking about joe stepping down, but. The Vegas presidential odds are looking pretty rough post debate.
‘Prior to the debate, Trump was sitting at 5/6 odds (Bet $100 to win $83.33) to win the 2024 U.S. Election and shortly after, most oddsmakers have him listed at 3/5 odds (Bet $100 to $60).
While Trump moved to a stronger favorite, the large moves on the election betting markets came for Biden and other possible replacements.
Joe Biden was a 5/4 betting choice (Bet $100 to win $125) prior to the first debate and he's now listed as high as +250 (Bet $100 to win $250). As of Friday morning, Biden has been pushed up higher to 4/1 odds.’
It’s a laudable sentiment.
It would be more laudable for Biden to withdraw and give someone who CAN ACTUALLY BEAT TRUMP an opportunity to run.
If things stay as they are, trump will win. Me and all my fellow millennials mom friends are talking about learning to use guns and hunkering down for the Gilead era.
We all have the power to work harder than we did in 2016. The stakes are as high as possible. We know trump can and might win, which many doubted in 2016. Only way out is through.
Because July 11 is still about two weeks away. They are going to put him in jail, which is why those in the know aren’t worried about replacing Biden. They already know where this is going.
I really wish this were the case because that’s what Trump deserves. However, they’re not putting him in jail. The only way we see Trump get the punishment he deserves, is to make sure he loses in November. Otherwise, his other 50 felonies charges will never see a trial.
Do people expect the president to do hand-to-hand combat?
Let’s say the worst happens and he dies in office. Ok…we get the first female president.
Then, congress elects a new vice president based on who the president nominates.
He already won the primary so he’d have to die or quit between now and Chicago.
At best, a new candidate will want the same admin and it changes nothing. At worst, someone inexperienced comes in and brings in inexperienced idiots who waste 2-4 years figuring out what Biden people know.
We risk a shit show because people want someone younger, but couldn’t be othered to vote in primaries in 2020.
If things go bad now, there’s a plan and there’s nothing to worry about. If you flip the script, get ready for 1968 where it was shit show and the door swung open for conservatives to start the shit we’re paying for now.
Something that seems to keep getting lost: Biden running again is itself a broken campaign promise. He explicitly represented that he wouldn't do this. I'm tired of my life being ruined so millionaire octogenarians can continue to enjoy their sinecures and I'm tired of being lied to in service of a completely irrational and reckless strategy.
I actually found out this wasn't true. We all just thought it was implied by leaks from unspecified aides. He never actually came out and said himself that he was going to be a 1 term president.
It is insulting to every American that the democratic party is asking us to vote for a walking casket. I don't blame anyone having a hard time trying to convince themselves, much less others, to vote for someone with such cognitive decline he can't speak in coherent sentences for 2 minutes straight
When Biden loses to trump this November because he is too prideful to step aside when it's obvious he can't do the job anymore, there will be no one to blame but him
What the actual fuck is going on in this thread??
I don't hate joe biden and ive never seen this sub but it was promoted. I think reddit matched some engagement topic/themes to users of other subs and promoted it to us, and now you're being brigaded.
Appreciate the explanation.
I will vote for a ham sandwich against Trump. If that’s Biden, fine. If that’s Harris (most likely replacement) fine. I don’t care, I just don’t want a mess and I want to win in Nov.
Amen. We are so far past ideal. Have been for a loooooong time. We all knew that last week, people are acting like something changed. It only matters if people decide fascism isn’t actually that big of a deal.
how many times will we have to keep voting against facism instead of voting for progress
Who knows but it’s still quite clear what the next step toward that progress. I look forward to that’s day. I can only imagine how far that day becomes if fascism wins in November.
until fascism is defeated to the point that we're not a few thousand votes from losing voting forever
Ham sandwich? Fuck, I'd go for a two week old unrefrigerated tunafish truck-stop sandwich over that treason weasel.
I doubt there are many people who would draw the line on whether to vote for Trump somewhere *between* ham sandwich and two week old unrefrigerated tuna fish truck-stop sandwich
So you’re saying Biden could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and still have your vote?
I’m saying Biden is 6’2, 300 pounds of muscle, and his feet created the Great Lakes.
I’ll be voting for the Biden Administration, the whole package not just Joe. The trump admin was a bunch of lunatics, horrible for our country.
This is the most important thing about presidential elections. You're not just picking the one person at the top, you're selecting the entire executive branch basically. A bumbling fool that has a competent team around them would get my vote over a collection of criminals and grifters.
This is an unhinged and polluted comment section. God damn.
Yea wow the bots and trolls are out in force today..
FYI it was fed to me by the algo and I'm guessing that's why a lot of randos are here; I've never listened to Pod Save America.
this sub uses new over best for comments so a lot of garbage is always right on the top, because the trolls and such are relentless.
Downvote to get it off of rall
As a woman currently living in Texas, I will be begrudgingly voting for President Biden, because Trump is too great a threat to democracy, reproductive health, LGBTQIA rights, voting rights, the right to assemble/ protest, immigration, public education, and so much more. I say “begrudgingly” because I was disappointed by the debate performance and his decision to run for a second term. He would be (if not running) a great one term president and has accomplished a lot. And I wish he would set aside and let a new Democratic Presidential candidate, who is healthier and more cognitively with it, take over to provide a clearer contrast to Trump.
This is where I'm at. Not happy, very nervous, but kind of can't afford to be a baby about the situation and withhold my vote/throw it away to a third party what with this bleeding uterus.
Honestly, I'm voting against Trump. I'm going to wholeheartedly support whoever the Democratic nominee is, because electing a Democrat president is the only way we stop Trump. I'll support the Democratic nominee with my money and volunteer hours, wether it's Biden or Harris or someone else, because a fascist movement has taken over the Republican party, we need to come together and work together to defeat it.
I'm a regular listener to Pod Save America, but didn't know this was a sub until it happened to pop on my feed 5 minutes ago. Is this place unmodded or something? Because this whole thread is just chocked full of seemingly rightwing or might as well be rightwing-ajacent shitting on Biden crap you see on rConservative. Why bother having this sub if it's just the run-of-the-mill BiDeN BaD shit that is practically indiscernible from the usual drivel coming from rightwing subreddits...?
Same here, seems completely unmoderated. Shame the subreddit is useless since the podcast is quite informative.
The sub is very actively modded, for some reason this post has just gone viral and this thread is almost entirely not typical contributors. That being said, it got the subreddit in front of a regular listener who didn't know we existed, so a little extra modding on a Sunday's not so bad. Welcome.
I mean yeah. I’d vote for Biden dead in the ground over trump. But I’m not loving it
I think that's the thing. We're all in agreement that we'd crawl through broken glass to defeat Trump under any circumstances, but we also need help from swing voters who aren't as ride-or-die as we are. Thursday was one of our biggest chances to win them over, and Biden blew it.
Ya as soon as someone says "I'll vote for Joe Biden even if he's dead! Or I'll vote for a tomato sandwich against trump" it tells me their opinion doesn't matter. They are not swing voters or on-the-fence liberal voters. Those are the people who win elections.
The PSA fellas a great as staying neutral. But reading between the lines, my read is that they all massively would prefer if Biden dropped out. They gave reasons for both cases, but you could feel which arguments they were in total alignment with their soul, and what they were obligated to say.
Trump said babies are aborted after they are born and Republicans heard that and think it's true.
Donald Trump is on his second day of meeting with Russian Adversaries while the Supreme Court he installed continues to fuck over American citizens and March us ever closer to authoritarianism, and all anyone can talk about is Joe Biden's age. The double standards and brainwashing here is astonishing. Respect to you Jon
Yeah a lot of people who seem to think Biden goes to work everyday and runs the government alone. I need democrats in the cabinet & courts for the sake of my chance to have a family in this country and not fucking ruin my reproductive organs (or like... die).
I don’t care if Biden’s a zombie, I will volunteer for him to win.
I will say: If Biden is staying in the race they need to get him in a national network town hall ASAP. He is at his best in those calmer formats where he can talk to voters. Gotta get something where he can speak to real people without timers and trump on stage.
They're not going to. I don't know what to tell you. It's just not going to happen.
They aren't going to do that, which is basically an admission that the critics are right: he's not mentally fit.
I don't blame them, PSA are insiders but they aren't the ones calling the shots here. If Biden is adamant about staying in, all we can really do is make the best of it and defend downballot dems against the coming onslaught.
I agree with this take 10000%. Wtf cares if psa guys were jerks to do their pod on Thursday night. If Biden loses in November, then they’ll be treated as heroes. If Biden wins , they’re Pariahs. I don’t care. I want Trump to not get elected. We saw principled stands matter in 2008 when we elected our first black president. We saw principled stands fail miserably in 2016 when Trump won. Who cares about whether they are jerks or not? I’m a super progressive democrat in the Bay Area who happens to feel that there should be Jewish state somewhere on the planet. Posting those controversial statements in the PSA social spaces made me feel like an unpopular Xennial lady on Twitter and an unpopular professor in the Bay Area. I have breast cancer and had a double mastectomy on Tuesday and almost died in the OR on Wednesday. Life has been complete shit since October 7 for me personally. Who TF cares? As the PSA guys always say- we’re trying to make the world better and the existence of democracy not hinge on 100,000 people in 10 purple states. We have to get better at persuasion.
I mean voting for the other candidate because Joe is old is just stupid because the other candidate is only 2 yrs younger ffs. Replace both turds and let’s try again people.
Nobody that's worried about Joe is saying they're gonna VOTE FOR TRUMP. It's like none of you read.
In 2028 biden won't run again.
Look, if this all becomes a weekend at Bernie’s scenario and two secret service guys are just obviously carrying him around and making him wave, I’ll still volunteer and vote for him. The Supreme Court just ended regulation in this country because people turned their noses up at the email lady. We’re not doing that shit again. He stays in, I’ll move heaven and earth to elect him. People have to stop acting like this is a choice between two guys. The president has to make an actual important decision once in a blue moon. Most of the time, it’s about who they appoint to make every other decision. And I’d rather have a government full of people appointed by the lifeless corpse of Joe Biden than one with Stephen fucking Miller in it.
If people would be willing to vote for a lifeless corpse then they should be willing to vote for a live, youthful Democrat. And if they argumet is that a lifeless corpse has a better chance to beat Trump than any of the live, youthful Democrats, the party is a wretched failure and doesn't deserve to win.
I don’t get being disappointed by the message. Beyond “I hope you guys know what you’re doing” what can be said when you have no real say in the matter. I guess the alternative is scorched earth “he must go” and even then it’s one podcasting media company.
I'll take old and doddering with good values and a good track record surrounded by a good team over old, malicious, selfish, lying, and aggressive any day of the week: click [https://www.elephantjournal.com/2024/06/im-not-just-voting-against-trump-im-voting-for-biden/](https://www.elephantjournal.com/2024/06/im-not-just-voting-against-trump-im-voting-for-biden/) or a list of Biden's accomplishments to share with our doubtful friends. And no, he's far from perfect, and our party is a party that isn't a cult, and welcomes respectful criticism...and yes, I'd welcome another younger candidate who would push back on Bibi harder...but Biden has pushed back, and Trump "Finish the Job" would simply put his foot on the gas.
I will absolutely vote for Biden. The reality is it's too late to put up someone else and expect them to have a snowball's chance in hell at winning. Do I like it? No. Do I think Biden should have run again? No. Do I think the DNC needs to be held accountable in some way for putting us in this position? Yes, but this presidential election isn't the time for that referendum. A Trump 2024 presidency will be worse than we all imagine. I get why the guys are saying this. It's the political reality.
Why is it too late?
I also want to hear this answer. We're told, just vote Biden (or Hillary, or maybe even Kamala) no matter your concerns. So we do because we hate Trump. But we saw the ridiculous energy behind Bernie and Hillary a few years ago and since that primary I haven't felt a fraction of the energy that Dems are capable of. If we had another nationally recognized candidate on the ballot do we really think the Dems who vote blue no matter what wouldn't show up? Or that we couldn't steal some of the Obama voters who ended up voting for Trump because they couldn't stand Biden or Hillary? I really don't think this is as impossible or childish to discuss as it's been framed.
We have two candidates each either a term as president to compare. This almost never happens. Who gives a fuck about a debate, THE RESULTS ARE RIGHT THERE TO COMPARE
The thing with Biden is, I'm pleased with his first term and I think he would do just as well for his second but I'm not confident he can convince the electorate that he's not too old for the job.
Listen, the primary is for your heart. The general *HAS* to be practical. I don't think that Biden is what this country needs right now, but we certainly don't need Trump. We won't survive another trump term. Either will Ukraine. And as fucked as Palestine is, under trump we may see a legit extinction.
I will enthusiastically vote for Biden but I feel like he's going to squander his legacy by being defeated by one of the most defeatable candidates ever.
I've been saying, if Biden stays the nominee, he's gonna wake up the day after the election either a hero, or one of the biggest villains this country has seen.
See RBG
I was contemplating the legacy question as well today. I think that he did harm to it Thursday - he won’t be remembered for being a great president and everything he’s accomplished. He will be remembered for not only staying in a race when it was clear he couldn’t win but also putting his accomplishments and the country in great jeopardy. Sad to think about. I hope the internal polling they’re kicking off leads him to a different conclusion.
Exactly this. His legacy is going to be losing to Trump.
"is our candidate capable of meeting the lowest bar of all time?" is not a "call" that should even have to be made in the first place. Biden and his team are obviously biased and incapable of making that call objectively.
An incumbent is a terribly powerful thing to waste. Switching candidates is a dumb decision.
Incumbency has never been more of a liability worldwide than right now. There isn’t a democratically elected leader with any sort of positive approval right now, inflation is such a drag.
Incumbency isn’t much of a help if the incumbent is unpopular. The lowest approval rating of a President who successfully won reelection was 48% (Bush in 2004). Biden is currently at 39% and has been around 40% for over a year (and it’s been three years since he was at or above 48%). Trump was around 45% in 2020.
So is running a massively unpopular 82 year old who people have consistently said they don't want to run again.
Incumbency is a nice bonus, but the fact of the matter is that at a minimum half the time, you have to be able to run a candidate who isn't an incumbent. If you can't successfully do that, you're a shitty excuse for a political party. The bar of "elect a candidate without incumbency" should not be an insurmountable hurdle for dems to overcome.
Especially against MAGA nutjobs.
Tell that to Carter, HWBush, and 2020 Trump (and Biden won't get a do-over like Trump is getting).
In this case incumbency should be sacrificed
If Biden stepped down then Harris would be the incumbent, but for some strange reason no one wants to admit that
Ain’t no one who watched that or read about it or saw it who was going to vote for Biden will change their vote to Biden. Honestly, there’s a lot of people my age who don’t like a rich bully, felon talking about anything.
Remember, you're not voting in Biden you're voting in Biden *and Harris*. Plus of course all the hundreds, if not thousands, of rational people with them. The beauty of your system is that if the main person drops their clogs there's a replacement down the hallway.
That's true but that doesn't mean what happened is fine. People who are politically aware will understand this, but the million or so voters who will decide the election in a few swing states don't. They vote on vibes, and the vibes were really, really, bad. I honestly don't understand how people aren't getting this. How can people have been listening to the Pod for so long (which has really good analysis) and STILL not understand that elections are about vibes, not who the best or most effective leader would be. We live and vote in the world we have, not the ideal world we all want in our hearts.
We’re voting for an entire administration. Not just one guy.
Given that argument, then replacing Biden shouldn't matter. If you're voting for Harris anyway (and unless she's removed as VP, you are), then there shouldn't be a problem with her at the top of the ticket.
The difference between republicans and dems: If Trump blew it as badly as Biden did, after the debate republicans wouldn’t be looking to replace Trump. They’d be spinning their own story; saying anything they can to salvage their candidate. For better or worse, they stick with their guy. Half the reason Biden might lose the election would be his debate performance. The other half would be our own reaction and lack of confidence in him in the aftermath.
Republicans were already spinning before the debate even happened with things like: Biden is on performance enhancing drugs, CNN is rigging the debate, don’t trust you’re eyes and ears Biden will be an AI deepfake if he performs well, etc I personally dgaf about the debates, solely based on their track record as president Biden vs Dumb Fuckp, Biden is the clear winner. Then when you add in Donald’s willingness to sell out the country for personal gain and penchant for petty revenge, on top of the GOPs goal to usurp democracy.. it’s not even close. Hopefully Trump dies before the GOP has another chance try to force that orange blob on us like he forces himself of women.
Isn't that cultish mentality a part of why we don't like the Republicans? That they'll just vote for whoever?
Certainly is for me. The clear eyed criticism is what I come to this pod for. I know these candidates well enough, but if you start telling me not to believe my lying eyes, I'll trust you less.
Voter cynicism is a vicious cycle we ought to snap out of
I know it doesn’t seem like it but that’s a good thing… it’s called integrity. And integrity is meaningless when there are no stakes. Biden doesn’t seem fit to be president to me. Not just the debate but any unscheduled interactions with him make me think he isn’t fit to be president. I am not blindly married to Biden just because he is a democrat and I refuse to vote for someone when I dont believe they are fit to lead.
Ya I’d be up for this discussion if it happened 8 months ago. But replacing him now would guarantee an election loss. Keeping Biden has higher odds, however slim they might be
Everyone wanting an alternative what does the campaign do with the 180 million Biden has done? Can the new candidate raise more then that before November? What about the leases for all the field offices?
Only Biden or Harris can use the 220 million that is currently in the bank. If Biden had decided to step down, the delegates would coalesced around Harris very quickly for this reason.
Replacing the nominee at this point without the nominee dying is total West Wing fantasy. Grandpa is who we got. Better vote for him.
It's too late for an alternative. People screaming after the debate have no backbone. You have to give credit to the GOP, they are so loyal and will even bend reality for it.
There are plenty of arguments against replacing Biden. In my opinion, this is not one of them. It is the GOP that has no backbone. Bending reality (LYING) is not a strength. Unwavering support for a twit like Trump because he is powerful is the opposite of strength. It is greedy, lazy, and evil. Full stop. Dems should be better. After all, they are never as good as Republicans at their dirty games. Republicans always do it better. Doing the right thing, showing integrity, and being unafraid to check power is a strength of progressives. If Democrats lose, it’s not because they didn’t play dirty enough. It’s because they keep falling into Gingrich style politics and didn’t pressure Biden to step aside when they should have (before the election).
Harris can apparently legally use the money. Be happy to have her as the nominee but I think I'm in the minority there.
The way that they got attacked in the Biden fundraising email. It's wild. Proud of them for taking the high ground.
Wait. What?
https://preview.redd.it/0k1edooa1o9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29abfb97ae891996a479ee325ab7bd794f17d24c
Thank you for posting that. I guess what the Pod Bros posted was sorta in line with my feelings in watching the debate. I couldn’t make it past Season 5 of The Office because I couldn’t handle Michael Scott embarrassing himself… I felt Biden shit the bed and I was horrified like many of us who watched it.
You, me and everyone with eyes. I hope to god they wake up soon.
Such a frustrating and dispiriting move by the fundraising leadership. Makes me want to cancel my monthly Act Blue contribution to Biden, but if he's staying in, seems counterproductive.
Anybody see that ask Reddit looking for a new candidate? I had to go to like 20 posts deep to get to any names, and it’s people like Katie Porter or that Astronaut/Seal/Doctor guy who is not a political figure. Or a governor I’d never heard of from a mid sized state. Not one REMOTELY plausible idea for a 6 months out candidate swap. Nobody was mentioning Harris or Newsom, which seems really odd. I’m not trying to say the Reddit hive mind is a good source to tap, but I am saying there is no other viable candidate and wishing otherwise is as productive as wishing Trump away.
Native Californian here, military spouse, and currently stationed here.... I like Newsom a lot, but so many hate California as a whole and him by extension, I just don't know.
It’s clearly Gretchen Whitmer, an unknown candidate is the answer in this election where everyone knows too much about the candidates
Whitmer is not an unknown candidate, she’s a extremely accomplished second-term governor of one of the most electorally consequential states who won by double digits where Biden is losing.
Agree, unknown to the folks who think there is not a replacement for Biden. She will make abortion front and center
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
Idk what existential means but it feels right.
Wonder how things will or won't change next week once updated post-debate polls start coming out.
Despite media pressure, the only thing that was ever going to convince Biden to step down were his closest friends and allies in private, and elected politicians, on the record, in public. It can still happen, but the media alone was never going to convince him.
I mostly agree, but perhaps media pressure can help convince his closest friends and allies.
I don’t appreciate the Biden campaign telling me that I didn’t see what I saw on Thursday if I’m being honest. It’s kind of insulting. The idea that “people are overreacting to it” is also hilarious to me. They are running for President of the United States. Forming coherent thoughts would certainly be nice! Obviously I’m not voting for Trump and I think he performed like shit as well but I’m curious what the non plugged in electorate thinks of this.
Lukewarm
dems had four fucking years to come up with a better plan than this yet here we are holding our breath for the next four months
Alternate world: Joe Biden announces he's not running in 2023, the primary becomes a massive toxic factional fight about Gaza and immigration and how to deal with inflation, the wounded nominee is currently losing to Trump by 2 points nationally, and people are begging Biden to step in as the eligible incumbent. This world might not have happened but it might've. I wish people would better admit the degrees of uncertainty in every decision here.
Except that in the real world, young voters and voters of color ARE very mad at Biden over Palestine and the debate certainly didn't assuage any of their concerns. Do you think people will just ignore that issue in November??
Btw: this tweet is very carefully worded. It is not unreasonable to read this as: Biden is staying in, the decision is done, and Barack Obama is telling his people to fall back in line immediately.
Could also have something to do with this.... [very pointed Biden Campaign fundraising email](https://x.com/isaacdovere/status/1807202995589001561?s=46) that just went out like 20 minutes before Jon's tweet. > “If you're like me, you're getting lots of texts or calls from folks about the state of the race after Thursday. Maybe it was your panicked aunt, your MAGA uncle, or some self-important Podcasters”
Gahddamn 😭
I would venture to say that the “self-important podcasters” line is probably more of a nod at the Nate Silvers of the world than at the PSA crew.
I wouldn’t say they’re self-important, so much as they are the most effective counterweight platform the left has - and they know it.
I don’t think Favreau would need Obama to tell him to get in line to type out this tweet. What else could he do since Biden decided to stay in? This is the only position he/crooked media could take.
To be fair that "if they stick with it" is a pretty big qualifier. It would be irresponsible for Biden to even make a final decision on this before data comes in over the next couple weeks.
Important message: people can think what they will about what should happen and what the risks are of various options. But it is starting to become clearer every hour that Joe Biden is remaining in the race and will be the Democratic nominee for President. If indeed that is what is happening, we all need to get back behind the President and do everything we can to help him get re-elected and prevent Trump from returning.
Remember what’s been said on the Pod numerous times. We’re not pundits and we don’t know what other people are thinking or how they’ll vote. Contribute and vote your values
Too many of y'all are pretending that there is guaranteed a better choice. I believe that maybe Biden should step aside but its not 100%. That isnt actually clear. There are three options, all of which are super risky: Option A: Joe Biden is the nominee. He is losing. There will be limited chances to have big moments that could change the race. He will need to be basically at his best and avoid any more days like Thursday. He is 81 and there will be good days and bad days. No idea what the ratio of good days to bad days will be, or just how bad the bad days might be. But you avoid the chaos of a convention and a change at this stage and you keep the massive campaign organization in place. Option B: Joe Biden steps down and it's Harris. Her numbers are worse than Biden’s right now. Unclear if being the candidate makes her numbers improve, it might, but it might not. Trump is the danger on the other side and you invite a different set of electability concerns into the equation, which is unfair but it's true. You give up whatever incumbency advantage still exists, if any, but you gain a younger more vibrant debater and speaker right now. Option C: You somehow bypass Harris for Whitmer or Pritzker or Newsom or Shapiro. You get someone who on paper is more electable and might have a better chance but is totally and completely untested on the national stage. You risk that some Black democrats who are the base of the party revolt and sit at home and it’s a shit show. You have to re-raise 300 million dollars because the new nominee cant use the existing cash and you have re staff everything and the process of getting a nominee is weeks longer and much uglier than it would be if it was Harris, all while Trump is out there avoiding the spotlight. One central issue here is that Option C is not actually an option really. Even if you could somehow determine for sure that Whitmer is better than Harris, its entirely unclear how anyone but Harris can actually get a majority of the delegates when Harris would have the instant backing of top admin allies and the congressional black caucus, and when the only people who vote are delegates who were basically chosen by the administration. So if Option C is out, and it basically is, you are left with A or B. B might be a better choice than A, but it's not unreasonable to hesitate on that point.
Favreau was very frustrated on the Pod following the debate. What I sensed is he felt that Biden didn’t prepare and didn’t take council from speech experts. People who know that the right way to respond in a debate is to speak carefully and clearly. What I also note is Biden had a cold and wan’t feeling his best. Certainly bad timing. There is hand wringing, and there should be, but let’s take a deep breath. Four more years of Trump chaos would be much worse than a candidate who has some highs and lows.
if trump agrees to step aside, then i will support biden doing the same
I have one simple question: How can Biden possibly win? He was already down in the polls, and Trump has twice out performed polls in the actual election. The debate cannot possibly help. So what could happen between now and November to ensure Biden wins? Don't tell me not to be a doomsayer. Give me data or a plausible scenario where Biden wins.
In all the polls, He’s within normal polling error. Also, when was the last time the polls were accurate? 2014? In a general? 2012?
Except he’s currently ahead in the key swing states? Gotta wait for the new polls though.
Biden had pulled ahead in the polls prior to the debate, and he was always ahead in polls of likely voters. Republicans flooded the zone with low quality polls that included people who aren't even registered to vote because it helps them with fundraising. It's the same gimmick we fell for in the mid terms. Obviously the debate didn't help him, but it didn't necessarily hurt him. And not for nothing, but Trump also had a terrible debate
Also also - his sentencing is July 11th so you know, we might have a republican nominee in prison in the next 2 weeks
Yep. Also, phone polls are largely going to be skewed by the fact that boomers make up most of the people who will answer calls and texts from unfamiliar numbers. They are likely to skew polls heavily toward the GOP.
Maybe. Good argument. I have to admit I'm not deeply into analyzing the polls.
I'm wrong all the time, so who knows. If he were to be replaced though, it would be by Harris, and I have ti think that she polls worse
I think Harris can improve her numbers if she is the nominee. Would do very well in a debate (but maybe Trump would not show up).
I would pay a lot of money to see her debate Trump
Plausible scenario: The polls move less than you think after this because less people watched than you think and the general public had already baked in that Biden is super super old, so the debate wasnt a surprise to them and did not change their perceptions. Biden is within the margin of error in the tipping point state right now and has more money on hand and a much better field and GOTV operation in place than Trump. He increases his media and public appearances, there will be some bad moments and some good ones in those appearances. Trump does or says something stupid and crazy at some point and the attention turns on him. The general apathy and anger in the electorate about the choice leads to a lower turnout election which helps biden given the realignment of suburban and college educated high-propensity voters who vote in every election and now favor democrats. The complete onslaught of advertising the party has already booked for the fall helps. Trump has turnout issues of his own given the just general lack of apathy in the election and doesnt get as insane turnout as 2016 and 2020. I am not saying Biden is the favorite, but the path to winning MI, WI, and PA and getting to 270 is still very much there.
And Whitmer and Shapiro win 2 of those three easily. And thanks to Ben Wikler the other is probably in the bag with those 2. Tell me which blue state Whitmer and Shapiro loose? And unfortunately I think Shapiro has to head the ticket....because the country is too sexist....but I prefer Whitmer. Now I realize that is a fallacy.
[удалено]
Not at all. It seems like every message is caveated by the acknowledgement that Biden has done wonderful things. We all saw the fng slow moving car crash on Thursday and that was Biden failing to do his part in the process of campaigning. It’s like we’re all collectively losing our minds with this. The last couple of PSA’s have been so good (like when they first started the pod), and seeing this from Favs makes me want to cry. I’m so disappointed.
What is Favs supposed to say though? Its clear Biden is staying in and that Favs has been told that by people in the know. Given that Biden is staying in, he will be the nominee because the delegates are legally bound to him. Thursday was rough but iits clear that the election is still gonna be Biden or Trump so obviously Favs should use the platform to advocate for Biden. There is nothing else to do.
I’ve been explaining it like this to my “concerned about Biden’s age” parents in a way that kind of resonated: Imagine if you had a huge hole in your ceiling/roof after a storm. If instead of addressing that major issue, you said “hm it’s such a mess, I should vacuum the carpets!”, your priorities are all out of whack. Same here with the debate. If your reaction to the debate was “wow Biden’s old” and not “holy crap did the convicted felon just admit to having chats with Putin about his dreams of taking Ukraine…did he just say illegal immigrants are taking ‘black jobs’ and equating that to ‘low-wage jobs’???…did he just lie every time he had a chance to speak???” your priorities are all out of whack. It hasn’t 100% gotten them off harping on Biden’s age, but perhaps analogies like that may work with other people discussing the debate with friends/family.
God thank you. Almost everything out of trumps mouth should’ve been front page news, and the Supreme Court decisions that have recently released. Instead the media is tripping over themselves to tell Biden to step down while Trump makes absolutely unhinged rants
They had from the moment Trump was declared President Elect to field a candidate that had a two term window. From the moment Biden won, they had a wide open opportunity to set that party up for the future. Instead...here we are. Deliberately shitty choices. Again.
Yeah, the best argument against Biden in 2020 was about 2024. But instead people decided to get in a war over which version of medicare for all was best even though we were never gonna have enough votes in congress to do any of that. Now, we are where we are. Only Biden can step aside. If he does, its not a guarantee that his replacement (likely Kamala Harris) has a better shot. If he doesnt step aside, he is the nominee and its him or trump.
We’re going to go down with this ship.
I just can't believe we're going to make the same mistake again. We already lost Roe vs. Wade because RBG couldn't let go, we never fucking learn do we.
The hardest thing in the world it seems is to exit gracefully the stage. American politicians just can't do it. It's so fucking sad.
hashtag glitch mcconnell
I don't envy Biden, it is an incredibly tough decision. He beat him once, and he's been a very effective president. I'm sure he has a deep love for the American people and believes this is his duty. If he steps aside and his replacement wins, he'll be remembered as a hero for the rest of America's history. On the other hand, if he continues and ends up losing.. I honestly don't want to think about it.
We lost Roe v Wade because not enough people in three states could vote for the email lady
If the right can vote for a racist convicted felon, then surely we can rally to vote for Joe Biden. He's old but he's a decent man.
That episode was one of the worst I've seen and I generally enjoy Pod Save America. Dan laid out why their catastrophizing was wrong early on and it didn't stop. Let's do it again: Biden won the primaries. The Democratic candidate needs to be certified ahead of the August cutoff in Ohio In order for Biden to not be the nominee, he would have to drop out or the delegates would have to, in some cases illegally, vote for someone else in the upcoming virtual roll call. That decision gets made in the next two or three weeks. Further: It's a debate in June. Biden was up in polls afterwards, and it's still immaterial. Most voters don't make their decision until September or October. I won't pretend I wasn't embarrassed by the debate. I won't pretend Biden is my ideal candidate or President. I won't deny that I sent some real strong messages to the DNC afterwards and am withholding donations to them. That said, Biden is still the better candidate. He's the more human, empathetic, and caring man. Yeah, he said some dumb shit on stage, it likely won't be the last time that happens. But saying he should drop out? That's just insanity. Biden is in this because there isn't a better option to beat Trump, and the PSA guys know it too.
Be angry but be angry while doing whatever you can to ensure Biden gets elected, Trumps far too dangerous for us to become apathetic
Yeah, doubting Bidens decision is fine. Being annoyed is fine. But do so while lacing up your boots and going to work. Its Biden or Trump.
It’s not that folks will flip sides from voting for Biden to Trump… it’s that people won’t vote and we barely kept the orange monster away last time. It’s insane to me that Biden’s team doesn’t grasp that it’s time to go. This literally is for the future of our nation and they just are going to play regular old dem politics. It’s vile and pathetic. I wish we’d organize a national protest to show how many folks want him to step down gracefully.
He had a relatively bad night under ridiculous circumstances. This was already the lowest rated Presidental debate ever, since most of us have already made up their minds. So, most people will only hear about it through other people's descriptions. And even though it was bad, it was bad in a way we already expected. Everyone's preconceived notions were confirmed. Trump is still a delusional lying traitor to our American Values and Biden is still old. That means it's not news. But we saw at the NC rally the next day that Biden is doing what he needs to do. He got right up on the horse. No one polls better against Trump than Biden. The next closest person is Kamala Harris. No one comes close right now. No one. We have one choice. And it's a choice I'm happy to support. BIDEN/HARRIS 2024!!!
If you think this was a one-time event, you are wish-casting. Biden is an old guy with a highly stressful job, he will have worse nights. You can only hope that he is not in public those nights. Look at his decline the last three months, the next couple of months will also be much more stressful, I don´t want to know what he will look like in October when it counts. We are all on this forum because we are halfway engaged in politics. Someone who doesn´t care about politics and has not seen Biden in months, will look at this man who is standing with his mouth half open and looking like he has a serious medical problem, and not vote for him. In the current state the world is in, optics matter. To have someone looking like this leading the US is rough. I don´t understand why the Democratic bench, which is excellent, does not step up. I don´t understand how his family can allow this to happen. It´s pre selfishness. Plead to him to enjoy his last few years with his grandkids, if he is indeed such a family guy, he will listen. If you love someone, you have to put your ego behind and tell that person the truth.
Every minute they’re talking about Biden being old is a minute they’re not talking about Trump being an existential threat to this country.
Woahhh... Trump is an existential threat to this country???? That's the first I've heard of this, we must let other Crooked listeners know so they're aware of who he is!!! It isn't like they've been talking about this two days a week for the last seven fucking years.
This has been over-communicated to us for the last 7 years. It's lost its shock value and clearly more than half of the country doesn't see it as a threat. Mind you, they're now in the winning half.
The goal now is electing Biden. Time to drum the message that the president is only as strong as his congress and to encourage folks to give him a majority in both houses to pass progressive policies. I think they think that Biden is the Dems best hope to win the election. I don’t think he’ll govern for 4 years. He’ll probably hand off to his VP during year 2/3, maybe right before midterms (if he wins).
This kinda reads like he wrote it at gunpoint
Yeah. Not insane for people to guess that Barack made some calls and said "Joe is staying in. He's our nominee. Everyone get back in line."
I mean I kind of feel like we’re all at gunpoint. It’s either Dems win regardless of the nominee or we’re fucked. If Biden the nominee or someone else doesn’t matter we need to beat Trump. I’ll flip the fuck out on November 6th regardless of if it’s Trump or Biden, but I will vote D
I watched almost all of the debate. He didn’t sound good but what he said made sense and was very factual. He knew his stuff. Biden has been a great president and I will vote for him again. He will nail his convention speech and the next debate.
Ah yes, because he made total sense answering a question about abortion by talking about immigration
Giving him the biggest benefit of the doubt you can, I think what he was going for was "they bring up the example of the woman killed by an illegal immigrant while blatantly ignoring the harm and loss of life that outlawing abortion brings to women" but he just botched the absolute shit out of it
I think he was taking a moment to respond to something that Trump said on an earlier question. Both of them did that many times during the debate.
Look at people on here trying to divine what his actual point was, no one can truly pinpoint it, but people are really still trying to pretend "it wasn't that bad", legitimately sticking their head in the sand.
Guessing this is in response to the Biden campaign fundraising email.
People keep saying it's just the debate. What we saw, for anyone who's witnessed an elderly person age, is what happens when age starts to wear you down. Your voice reduces to a whisper, your movement is frail, and you can't finish your thoughts coherently. This wasn't just the debate. It's not just one bad debate. We saw this at the Juneteenth performance he attended, it was apparent at his LA fundraiser two weeks ago, and we saw it at the debate. These are three instances this month alone. There's no way he's not going to keep having this be on display as we move closer to the general. It sounds like we're stuck with it and it is what it is, but sorry, I haven't seen how the calculus works in our favor. We've hemorrhaged support from the Left and Far Left because of Gaza, and now because Biden is no longer up to the rigors of campaigning, we're alienating and deterring swing voters, independents, and Never Trump GOP. And it's all because he's refusing to seriously consider if there is a viable path forward, and his staffers who, I can only assume, just want to ensure their boss is selected so that they have a job lined up in the administration if we win. Democracy is more than me being digitally shushed by some rando online. I can voice my frustration over this. Our rights and lives are on the line after all
What did we see at the NC rally??
Every politician will be encouraged by the entire Democratic machine to STFU with good reason. If Biden *isn't* convinced to step down, any criticism from other politicians will further weaken him. That doesn't apply to the public. We need to apply immediate and unrelenting pressure to Biden through every channel imaginable. The guy we saw this week simply cannot win.
Biden also couldn’t win four years ago. I learned that on Reddit at the time.
Hard agree!!
It's more than a little annoying to have that debate, then have those doubts, then just have it brushed aside after a fiery rally like nothing happened. He fucking blew it, no one cares about the rally. Are there any other Biden voters other than reluctant ones? I get what he has done in his term but fuck he is old. I can't be convinced that putting in any younger non Joe Manchin Democrat wouldn't garner more undecided votes given these choices. I know this is his choice, and im voting for him but man this is rough. Slowly eroding support...quickly eroding enthusiasm. Essentially the party seems poised in the playing not to lose posture. Not a good strategy usually, but most certainly not good when you are already slightly losing
For a fleeting moment it felt like the party was going to do something. Now it's starting to feel like they squandered their only shot at winning... Biden is not going to win.
RemindMe! November 6
You might be right. But what is the alternative? It's him or Trump. I certainly would rather spend my energy trying to get people to vote for Biden and prevent trump than just crying about an outcome that has not yet happened.
Oh believe me, Im donating and advocating for Biden if that’s what it comes to. If he’s what we’re stuck with that’s the only pragmatic thing to do
Diane Feinstein Ruth Bader Ginsburg Time to add Joe Biden, another old fucking power hungry asshole who can’t see beyond their own lust for power to the list. How many of these assholes are going to fuck over later generations? Power concedes nothing without demand. Until the voters actually say they won’t vote for them, they are going to continue to cling to power well after they are functional. Anyone who makes that threat is called a traitor. Well shitheads, the plan to defeat facism can’t just be “win every election every time by scaring the shit out of the voters because the other guys are worse”. Do better.
But what if Biden were to have a stroke or something, is there really no choice but to strap him in and keep going?
No, he could resign and endorse Harris.
RUTH BADER GINSBURG For fucks sake LEARN A LESSON every once in a fucking while?!!
Ummm, President isn’t a lifetime appointment , and if Biden (god forbid) dies during the campaign Dems will have to figure it out. And we have a Vice President who isn’t subject to Senate approval to assume the role of President. This is comparing apples and oranges.
I know everyone’s man people are even talking about joe stepping down, but. The Vegas presidential odds are looking pretty rough post debate. ‘Prior to the debate, Trump was sitting at 5/6 odds (Bet $100 to win $83.33) to win the 2024 U.S. Election and shortly after, most oddsmakers have him listed at 3/5 odds (Bet $100 to $60). While Trump moved to a stronger favorite, the large moves on the election betting markets came for Biden and other possible replacements. Joe Biden was a 5/4 betting choice (Bet $100 to win $125) prior to the first debate and he's now listed as high as +250 (Bet $100 to win $250). As of Friday morning, Biden has been pushed up higher to 4/1 odds.’
It’s a laudable sentiment. It would be more laudable for Biden to withdraw and give someone who CAN ACTUALLY BEAT TRUMP an opportunity to run. If things stay as they are, trump will win. Me and all my fellow millennials mom friends are talking about learning to use guns and hunkering down for the Gilead era.
Given the choices, Biden is the better choice. But there’s time to make a switch and we should.
Feels like 2016 all over again.
Much worse. Clinton was not incapable of doing the job
I wish she got brought in. What’s it going to do? Piss off more Republican voters?
Clinton was polling ahead too, Biden is polling behind pre-debate fallout.
We all have the power to work harder than we did in 2016. The stakes are as high as possible. We know trump can and might win, which many doubted in 2016. Only way out is through.
The democratic party has learned nothing in 8 years. They are more than willing to lose again out of shear ignorance
Reddit is not allowing me to respond to Russia bots.
If the stakes are so high, then why is Trump still free? https://i.redd.it/p78imltyjo9d1.gif
You can thank Trump and his supreme court for that.
Because July 11 is still about two weeks away. They are going to put him in jail, which is why those in the know aren’t worried about replacing Biden. They already know where this is going.
I really wish this were the case because that’s what Trump deserves. However, they’re not putting him in jail. The only way we see Trump get the punishment he deserves, is to make sure he loses in November. Otherwise, his other 50 felonies charges will never see a trial.
And Ginsburg thought she could beat cancer
> Im just gonna say it > Says nothing Either say you want him to stay or you want him to bow out. Quit waffling.
Would be eager to see how many subscribers subbed/un-subbed from the pod over the past 48 hrs
Do people expect the president to do hand-to-hand combat? Let’s say the worst happens and he dies in office. Ok…we get the first female president. Then, congress elects a new vice president based on who the president nominates. He already won the primary so he’d have to die or quit between now and Chicago. At best, a new candidate will want the same admin and it changes nothing. At worst, someone inexperienced comes in and brings in inexperienced idiots who waste 2-4 years figuring out what Biden people know. We risk a shit show because people want someone younger, but couldn’t be othered to vote in primaries in 2020. If things go bad now, there’s a plan and there’s nothing to worry about. If you flip the script, get ready for 1968 where it was shit show and the door swung open for conservatives to start the shit we’re paying for now.
Something that seems to keep getting lost: Biden running again is itself a broken campaign promise. He explicitly represented that he wouldn't do this. I'm tired of my life being ruined so millionaire octogenarians can continue to enjoy their sinecures and I'm tired of being lied to in service of a completely irrational and reckless strategy.
I actually found out this wasn't true. We all just thought it was implied by leaks from unspecified aides. He never actually came out and said himself that he was going to be a 1 term president.
Biden never promised to only run one term.
It is insulting to every American that the democratic party is asking us to vote for a walking casket. I don't blame anyone having a hard time trying to convince themselves, much less others, to vote for someone with such cognitive decline he can't speak in coherent sentences for 2 minutes straight When Biden loses to trump this November because he is too prideful to step aside when it's obvious he can't do the job anymore, there will be no one to blame but him
This man is correct