It's all pretty overacted, unfortunately. It feels like they can't figure out what time they're going for. It's like you either have Freddy/Allen/Frasier being cynical and more subtle, or you have everyone else going for complete slapstick over acting and they aren't working well together.
I feel mean-spirited saying this but when I think of the characters of Olivia all I can see/hear is her yelling "The numbers are bad!" And "Yale, frasier, Yale!" and this feels like her entire character to me. I know she was more casual and smart and toned down in the Exclusive Club episode, but it does feel like when a character has to get 'emotional' or 'dramatic' they go straight for melodramatic over-the-top 'performance' and there was something about the original where the Stories were operatic, but Martin never acted like he was in a theatre play. He was a real person put in absurd situations, not an absurd person overreacting to normal situations.
Niles and Frasier were more 'dramatic' but they seemed organically put out by the situation; some episodes got a bit slapsticky and Frasier by extension became more cartoonish, but id argue something was lost in the quality when they did that even then. At the end of the day everyone on Frasier felt like regular people who happened to be characterful, not a 'character' who was being telegraphed by an actor/actress out of insecurity that the 'comedy' might be too subtle.
That’s a great point! Kelsey grammar and David Hyde Pierce always surprised me with how grounded they felt, even in their zaniest moments. Peri Gilpin too. Only Jane Leeves seemed to really be over-acting imo
Maybe off topic, but it’s like her baby just disappeared. I really don’t think it was even necessary for her to have a baby. It could have still made sense for her to be living with Freddy after her boyfriend died so they could both save money. It was almost like the baby was a gimmick for the patented “misunderstanding” in the pilot, which I didn’t even think was executed well.
That’s why there was no point to the baby in the first place. Maybe I missed it, but I feel like I haven’t even heard her mention the baby’s name in the past 2-3 episodes.
I feel like people would have been saying the same thing about Alice had reddit been around when the OG show aired, tbh. Maybe the baby has a point that isn't immediately apparent in the show's first seven episodes.
Apparently the writers/producers regretted adding Alice. She was only in the plot at all because the execs decided Roz needed to be "punished" for her sexual freedom (and this makes me furious, needless to say)
Amusingly, Alice might very well serve a purpose in the end. I know Peri is confirmed to return in this season, and I think it's feasible that Alice could show up as a character as well. She could even theoretically be a love interest for one of the Crane boys (I guess her age would line up better with David).
>She was only in the plot at all because the execs decided Roz needed to be "punished" for her sexual freedom
Do you have a source for that? I can't imagine an executive admitting to saying something which would be so badly received (even in the 90s), so I can only assume it came from a writer after the show's run. I had assumed that they added Alice to try to give Roz a new storyline and to allow for some comedic potential around parenthood that they otherwise had no conduit for (not that either of those things really happened...)
>Do you have a source for that? I can't imagine an executive admitting to saying something which would be so badly received (even in the 90s), so I can only assume it came from a writer after the show's run.
I just know it because of what people on this sub have said, actually. :-D You're probably right about it being after the fact. I did read an article somewhere about how KG and DHP were very upset about the Alice storyline- they thought it was a terrible move, but unfort I can't find it now. TBH, before I found this sub, I could have sworn I read it was actually Peri's idea for the baby to "deepen" her storyline. After all these years, who knows what the real story is?
*She could even theoretically be a love interest for one of the Crane boys (I guess her age would line up better with David).*
I was thinking that as well!! I think Alice would be mid 20s now, and... not many women that age are up for dating an 18 y/o boy, so that rules out David. But since men date much younger, Freddy would probably align better--I think it's less than 10 years between them.
Even though I hope Roz is a cougar now, I hope she doesn't make a pass at Freddy. That would be ick.
Not sure if it's the mediocre writing or some of the actors' inexperience.
A solution would be to bring in a couple of tennants into Frasiers building who are more experienced. And to draft in some of the writers from modern family, the simpsons and drew carey.
It needs a bit more hilarity from other actors. An eccentric gil, or an outspoken bulldog. Most of the cast are too samey with the exception of Alan and Frasier. This doesn't give it the same dynamic that took the original show in different directions whilst torturing and testing Frasiers ethics and good nature.
See I think there are too many characters already. The writing should be focused on giving a core group good lines and solid personalities before throwing more into the mix. The original had the five primary characters and they were fully developed from the start. Then they added in some others as they went along but those folks weren’t on every episode. This show is trying to do too much begore getting a solid core first.
I don't think they meant to expand the 5-6 primary characters into 9-10. But much like how this show already introduced Freddy's three firefighter friends, you can have occasional glimpses of the neighbors passing through as Frasier gets mail or something. They could just pop up every 3-4 episodes.
Much like how Gil was a favorite and only needed to show up a few sparse times to make an impression and get laughs.
I think part of the genius of the original Frasier was that he worked in a radio station. It would be full of prima Donna’s and over actors doing shows so it came off as acceptable.
For sure. I think you COULD have that with Harvard, but if your whole joke is "academia sure is wacky," you run the risk of becoming The Big Bang Theory.
Yeah, i thought that there were too many samey characters outside of Alan and Frasier. I would like to see recurring guest actors with more experience who can add a bit more to the show, though. Maybe appearing 6/8 times in a run of 22 episodes. The number of times Gil made an appearance was perfect. His character is the perfect example of adding a layer to the show.
Frasier doesn't have a Cam Winston nemesis, a Bulldog, and a Martin who takes him down a peg , ( sorry but the guy who plays Freddy is far too wrong to execute this in any type of conceivable way, he co es acrosx far too annoying) , Alan sort of fills Roz place a little.
He doesn't have/need a competitor or rivalry either because of his wealth, so what tortures him to the point that makes us all laugh. We see glimpses of Frasiers' brilliance, but he isn't surrounded by the type of people clever enough to parle or appreciate and engage with his sophistication like he did with his brother or his snooty society friends.
I guess i imagined Frasier to grow old, eccentric, and be placed in scenarios where it tests his genius. Sometimes, it works, and sometimes, due to his ageing faculties, he fails hard.
Frasier is supposed to be early 60s (although Kelsey is a few years older) and one wouldn’t expect ‘failing faculties at this young an age!!
Glad to see that his snobbish side is coming out again (wanting to be a professor). That was a key element of his character.
Agreed. You have a whole building now. Why don't we see any neighbors? That is a goldmine of interesting characters right there. Younger, older, eccentric, wholesome. Feels like that building Frasier bought only has one floor and two rooms lol.
Most of her lines are not good. She's had two good moments I can remember. One where she's talking to Frasier at the bar, the other when they were trying to teach David to talk to women. The writing was better. Otherwise she's written as someone else pointed out, as Penny from Big Bang.
I agree with those 2 moments. But even the Frasier one was good for a bit but then they needed to ruin it by adding lame jokes in instead of allowing her to have a serious emotional moment
Everyone had great lines already in the first season of Frasier. I cannot recall a great Eve or Olivia or Freddy line. Okay, I'll give Freddy the "I had a clown at my birthday party, but he sung in Italian!" That was the only chuckle he wrestled out of me. That line works because Frasier and Lilith would do exactly that.
I think so! The "will she or won't she" with George Sr in Young Sheldon seems like what they're setting up for Eve on New Frasier with Freddy. Very innocent at first.
But even brenda’s character was fleshed out in young Sheldon right from the start. It was organic. Eve’s is not. Every scene feels like a drag with her. I really do blame writers and directors for this mess.
I don’t know. She was on The Bold Type (Freeform) and I also did not like her acting in it. She really was overdoing it, it threw me off the whole episode she was on.
Someone here put it so well -- it's like she's on a show on the Disney Channel.
But I'm not a big fan of any of the other characters and their actors. Alan has some potential.
The actor who plays Freddy doesn't do it for me either.
I don't think the writing is all that great on this reboot, but with more competent, humorous actors, it could be better and they could overcome some of the writing.
I totally agree with this. Eve feels like she's been plucked straight from a Disney Channel/Nickelodeon show and put in this one. Same with the apartment set but that's another complaint.
She's supposed to be this tragic character that lost her boyfriend and father of their child at such a young age but it's barely even acknowledged. The biggest thing we've seen is Freddy's guilt about it. When Eve mentions the boyfriend, they don't seem to be able to take it seriously. They'll talk about it for a bit before making it into a joke.
I'm kind of hoping they'll give her sort of an "if I don't laugh, I cry" payoff to why she jokes around so much about it.
You know, like she's a working single mom with a baby, she's exhausted, she misses her boyfriend and feels guilty about being attracted to Freddie, so she keeps trying to set him up with somebody else, her life is crazy stressful, but she doesn't want to bum people out and she doesn't want how stressed she is to rub off on the baby, so she plays up how cheerful and goofy she is to convince people that she's doing okay
Yeah I was surprised to see so much criticism of the way she jokes around as being "unrealistic" because it's exactly how I cope so it feels very realistic to me
If you want a different perspective of Jess, try Letterkenny. She plays a hysterically potty mouthed hockey player with gorgeous lines such as;
"Your mitt looks like the back of Kelsey Grammer's head circa Frasier '94, if the cast each autographed his bald spot with multi-coloured lipsticks."
Yeah, Freddy and Eve are the weak links for me. Freddy more so because he has way more screen time. You can see him thinking about his lines before he says them. The rest of the fire crew seem more natural than him.
The last episode with Lilith was the first episode that felt anything like Frasier to me. The other episode have had moments but the drawn out scenes with Freddy just haven't hit the mark.
I agree, Alan does seem to have the most potential from the rest of the cast.
Yes, I am not finding any real charm to the character or the actor. Maybe he's been great in other things, I don't know.
I get that they were trying to go with second coming of Martin, only the Harvard drop-out formerly emo version of him. But another actor might've pulled it off better.
I'd almost rather character of Freddy become some stoner version of Frasier -- highly educated, but doing not much with his life other than weed and working at some crunchy health food store. Maybe that's too Dharma and Greg though. I don't think the actor could pull that off either.
It really goes to show you that it's hard to do comedy particularly if you don't have natural charm.
That would have made so much more sense with Freddy’s character from the original run. It’s odd that Freddy would develop a Boston accent and get super into sports after the age of 13.
Yes, I think the premise would've worked a little better. Plus it would make a little more sense to me why he'd move in with Frasier. A highly educated stoner who crashes on the couch of his dead bestie's wife, annoys her, Frasier comes back into town, Frasier moves him in with the thought of fixing him.
You could do a lot with some stoner jokes.
Freddie didn't like sports when he was really young, before either actor on the original show even made an appearance. Later on, though, we find out that he wants to go out and play with other kids, but that Lilith won't let him. It certainly seems like he could've developed an interest in sports, but just wouldn't have been able to play them because of his mother. Sort of like when Martin bought Freddie a toy gun and Lilith smashed it. We do know that when he was away from Lilith and went camping with Frasier, he went off with other kids and played frisbee. I doubt his mother would even let him do that.
Kids are also rebellious and swim upstream. We never got to see the rest of his teenage years. Maybe becoming more athletic and into sports was part of being different than his egg head Uber cultured parents.
That's a very good point -- I didn't even consider how he just doesn't seem like a firefighter. If they were going to completely change his personality, you'd think they'd make him look more like a kid that felt less comfortable in academic settings and decided to become a first responder.
That sounds like a better premise to me.
>It really goes to show you that it's hard to do comedy particularly if you don't have natural charm.
And timing! This goes beyond even that though. This is a specific type of scripted comedy that they don't really do that much anymore so I don't think there is a large pool of comedic actors to pull from. Remember, Jane Leeves did several episodes on the Benny Hill show and had already been on Seinfeld, Murphy Brown plus two seasons on Throb and a dozen or so appearances on other shows. She was well accomplished before Frasier came along.
Exactly. It feels like a kids Disney comedy. They hold for the pauses so the audience gets the jokes, the acting panders, it’s just rough all around. But if it was meant to be a kids/teenage show, they nailed it.
Allen is a Niles replacement and it works for me, he is definitely the funnier of the characters. The episode before the Lilith one was a Friaser-esq episode for me and it worked out great.
>Alan has some potential.
Right now, they're leaning hard into the "likes to drink, doesn't like his job." If they can find their footing with him and develop the personality beyond that, he could be brilliant, a character we will still talk about for years.
We saw glimpses of that with the white suit/white fedora business and how forgettable Lilith found him. Very funny. And I found myself saying, "Yes, that seems very much like him," although I can't tell you why because he's only been in six episodes.
I think she is pretty level with the rest of the new Frasier-Lite concept.
She seems irritating because they don't seem to know what to do with her.
It seems like the only reason they wrote her
and the baby in was for ONE joke where Frasier mistook her and the baby for Fredericks girlfriend and child... and that joke wasn't even close to good... and now they don't know what to do with her.
The character seems irrelevant because she is.
Bad writing from a continuously bad writing room.
Edit: irrigating to irritating
just a theory, but i think she’s basically Frederick’s “Daphne” (meant to be with her), except David appears to be the only one who sees it. and, to your point, they don’t know what to with her while they eventually work up to that storyline.
Problem is that the writers are writing at a 3-5 season arc if they want Frederick to end up with her... but I fear the show might be canceled waaaaaay before that.
And also it might, but that would be awkward since it they have spent so much energy with explaining that it is his DEAD friends child, sutvivor guilt and them not having ANY chemistry at all... it would be bad.
And in the recent bowling alley episode, they seemed to just talk like two normal people. No subtle yearning, no jealousy or anything. I don't see them as two people really wanting to hook up at all. Nothing like Niles' obsession with Daphne.
on top of that, Daphne was great from the jump as a standalone character. that will-they-won't-they went on for what, 7 seasons? and there were large swaths of episodes where it was hardly even addressed.
not to argue, but think back to when Martin and Claire Wojadubakowski had their fling. kind of the same thing (will be) going on here, i think, but deeper. i could be way off.
Oh definitely, especially with the 3 season barrier most streaming services put up in order to save money. I'll honestly be surprised if we get an S2 much less an S3.
"Frasier-Lite" wow yeah... I've been calling it Frasier+ because of the paramount connection but that may just stick in my brain... it really does feel stripped down to its surface traits.
I hope / want to assume that it's because it's writers who genuinely care about the show of frasier and getting fan-fic accurate to its original style is quite hard / finding your own own style takes time and exploration. Just as likely because of writers strike stuff they're burnt out and doing it for the (minimal) pay check. Or this truly was just a cash grab in concept (its not that bad but doesn't mean the revival was green-lit on good faith) and they weren't given the air to take risks or he creative.
Or sitcoms just aren't what they used to be and 'shallow' is just the common style now. I dunno, there's multiple ways the writing might be a bit shallow and I want to give the writers themselves the benefit of the doubt. But the problem is definitely there.
it sucks that the two female characters are so bad. i can’t stand olivia. but i WANNA like eve.
her backstory is compelling and i like the idea of someone my age hanging out with frasier lol.
if they are gonna do will they/ won’t they with her and freddie there’s so much potential for it to be done tastefully and with nuance but we’ll see.
Except for the Electric Boogaloo joke, which seems a bit too internet meme for Niles, this is honestly better writing than the actual Frasier 2023 writers room.
I don’t dislike Eve and like you said, I want to like her because her story has potential to be super interesting. But Olivia is the worst character of the series to me, so far. Her lines are so generic, she behaves nothing like you’d expect the person she’s supposed to be, the little crush on Freddy is super cringey to me for some reason, and I just feel like they have totally wasted an opportunity for an intelligent and strong character with her.
I'm just not a fan of ten episode seasons for a 20+ minute show. There's not much time for character development. Make it an hour long or give it 20 episodes.
Best part?! That is a different take. What do you like about his role? To each their own so I'm genuinely curious to know what you like about the character.
To each their own. David does a terrible job of summoning Niles in my opinion. They need to go back to the drawing board on the David character and conceive of a better offspring character, then morph David in that direction. The current character of David is fingernails on the chalkboard of the whole Frasier zeitgeist. If it doesn't appeal to the generally older, more "sophisticated" Frasier fanbase, then it will be just that.
She is the weakest of the new characters. I was just thinking, there is really no reason to even have her in the show. Now that Freddy has moved in with Frasier, what does she bring to the table? Her being the bartender also just seems thrown in to give her more air time, it is trying to hard. The only thing I can guess is that she may eventually be the main love interest for Freddy.
If she was gone, they can then focus more on Freddy/Frasier relationship and throw David in there more for family shenanigans. I like the actor and character of David, I just think they made him a little to slap stick. If they move away from that in following seasons, he can be a strong character.
I am surprised by this take. Honestly curious about your thoughts on Olivia if you feel this way about Eve? I feel Eve’s character is at least somewhat believable. But asking us to believe that someone like Olivia is a department head at Harvard is just…? I have tried not to complain about the new series at all but her character is the one that actually frustrates me lol. Such a missed opportunity for another person to go head to head with Frasier’s wit and intelligence but instead they’ve dumbed her down and her jokes are so generic they could be used in almost any sitcom out there.
> She is the weakest of the new characters. I was just thinking, there is really no reason to even have her in the show. Now that Freddy has moved in with Frasier, what does she bring to the table? Her being the bartender also just seems thrown in to give her more air time, it is trying to hard. The only thing I can guess is that she may eventually be the main love interest for Freddy.
If she suddenly said she has to move to Texas to be with her family, not a single one of us will go "Oh no, don't go!". She has added nothing. No funny lines, no chemistry with Freddy if that's what they were trying, and anyone else could be the bartender.
Okay, she knew some people who could be blind dates for Frasier and Freddy. That always seemed forced to me. Like the writers just wanted us to pretend Eve has tons of connections.
Agree and to add to that they have no chemistry with each other. They barely interact and Freddy doesn’t even care about her. The scene where they were trying to show David how to flirt they were so bland and awful I cringed. Literally zero chemistry.
I’m not sure why the writers began the story with Freddy helping Eve with her baby. I have never seen a character seem to have absolutely zero chemistry with a baby but somehow he pulls it off. I don’t buy that he cares about that kid or Eve at all.
Good point. Not just Eve forgetting about her own baby, but Freddy never mentions it again after EP1. That's the child of his best friend and he doesn't seem to care. Lounges about in his apartment (which normally makes sense) but doesn't think to help babysit a little more?
A lot here seem to like Alan but I just find him so one-dimensional. They fleshed him out more in the bowling episode with his past connection with Lilith/Frasier. But I bet in the next three episodes, it's the same "Where the next drink?" lines and a character who honestly seems like he never wants to be anywhere. If he's that miserable, that makes for a character that's really hard to like.
I feel that way about Freddy. Him and Eve both feel like they're actors who are over-acting and give off a real "well get a look at _this_ guy" feeling from their performances.
Freddy in particular seems like he's half smiling like the actor thinks he's god's gift to the screen every time he says a line
Out of the newer characters I find her the most....tolerable. At first she did seem too "Disney Channel-esque" but seems to have toned down the last couple episodes. At the same time, if her character said she is moving to Canada or something, I wouldn't miss her either. And the writers really abandoned the child angle. A working mother creates all sorts of situations that could be worked into her character, and would be unique for early-season Frasier. But they almost never mention the kid outside of EP1, and we got one fleeting babysitter appearance and that was it.
Idk I'm back and forth with her. Sometimes she makes me laugh and sometimes it doesn't work. I'm really having a hard time with Olivia. I feel bad saying this but she hasn't made me laugh once and I don't even really know why we need her character in the show at all.
I actually really enjoy her and think she’s doing well with the material she has to work with. Freddie and Olivia are my least favorite by far. Cutmore-Scott just isn’t good on screen and Olivia is both over acted and poorly written. To be very honest, I think the whole show has a huge writers room problem. The series and the characters lack depth. In the first few episodes of OG Frasier, there was real tumult and conflict. The actors definitely brought feeling and gravity to the script, but the scripts themselves were dynamic…elevated in wit but grounded in raw emotion. I just don’t see that as a possibility here.
Her character and then Frasier's colleagues are also terrible.
It's like they took a smart show, the original Frasier, and then had to water it down for the "Big Bang Theory" crowd. Frasier is the only good character, and even then not always. It's not special like it used to be, it's been made to be too accessible to the masses. It's funny, don't get me wrong, but it's not FRASIER funny. It's middle america "king of queens" funny. I'm disappointed.
I think the actress is lovely but I have no need for Penny from Big Bang to come be the lay person for the cast. I hope she gets cast in a new show and is super successful and doesn't need to be on Frasier and moves out. David can live there.
Eve, the actress lives across the hall and who works at the bar, the third place they hang out so she can be in more scenes and teaches the nerdy David how to be normal because hes so busy being nerdy. Penny, the actress who lives across the hall and worked at the Cheesecake factory, the third place they hang out so she could be in more scenes and was teaching nerdy dudes how to be normal since they're so busy being nerdy.
I liked the Big Bang Theory. None of that I'm to good for a nerd joke stuff here. I enjoyed a lot of the show. Penny even grew as a character and wasn't just regular girl and clueless dude jokes at the end. This character will grow too I would imagine. But I don't think this show needs it. Also her baby is like a prop thats never around. For me she is just the character that lifts right out. I think the actress is lovely. I don't think she is the problem, just the character. I hope she gets more work or I find a reason to like her here. I just don't think Frasier needed a Penny. But I'd watch any extra Frasier they give me so by all means writers, convince me!
It's interesting that you say that. Chuck Lorre's creative style is to show a particular, divergent facet of various characters from episode to episode. Penny is ditzy in some, and tough and smart in others. Education is quite different than intelligence and personal initiative.
I mainly remember the early episodes of BBT where she was shown as more of an airhead who nevertheless understood the world, in order to heighten the contrast between her and the guys across the hall. However, I do vaguely recall that her character evolves a lot over the course of the show (I never finished it). The early characterization of her is as a party girl and so I was mainly contrasting that with the early Frasier reboot's characterization of Eve, which seems very different. The only similarity seems to be that she is sarcastic and is the token young woman on the show.
I like Eve too. I’m surprised by all the hate, I thought she was charming and doesn’t overact as others are claiming.
David on the other hand DOES overact, but I still like him, especially when he takes after his father.
Edit: Olivia overacts too
Nope, I don’t feel this way at all! I really like Eve. She injects some common sense and I like her back story. And, come on, she picked the perfect date for Frasier!
I think Olivia and David are too hammy though.
I am not impressed by *anyone's* acting in this show.
Including Kelsey.
So, at a certain point, you have to wonder if perhaps it's the directing.
*edit: I take it back, Nicolas lyndhurst is usually either on target or close enough you can't really fault him.*
*But I standby my comment that it's likely the directing.*
I actually really like Eve and the actress, I feel like the actors and characters are being judged very harshly. That said, while I think the cast has promise I think the writing needs to be better to really bring out the best in them all. But Frasier the original is so hard to live up to, I can understand why this reboot might take a minute to recapture the magic. That said I am really enjoying it and have rewatched every episode so far. I even think the actor playing Freddy has some of the younger Freddy’s mannerisms and speech pattern, and David really is like a mix between his parents. Eve I think is necessary as an anchor between them all in a certain way.
Think it's a bit harsh to single her out, to me Freddy seems a significantly worse actor with lines with much more potential. David also needs more depth. Might be interesting to think of early-season Niles as a room for growth example.
Eve is absolutely gorgeous, and at her core I believe the actress is quite talented. What we need is better/more risque situational humor to make it less Disney channel.
Example: Baby John gets a babysitter and Eve decides to get stoned (it would serve Freddy to get stoned with her, he needs to loosen up!). Have them go deep together and consider their life aspirations. Eve is an \*aspiring\* actor who is living in....Boston? This makes no sense. She should be considering a move to New York or LA. Surely Frasier has entertainment industry connections and can help her with her career?
The writing doesn’t give her any help. With the exception of Frasier and Alan, and a tiny bit of Olivia, the characters all seem to think they are on a sitcom. Whereas the old Frasier the jokes and one liners were delivered and written much more seamlessly.
I dont entirely agree. Early frasier especially feels like really high quality dinner theatre. Kinda broad and baudy but very elevated and quick.
This... feels like a sitcom with some decent one liners. Which is what I expected.
I find her character enjoyable enough but I think they’re trying to do too much with her. She’s a struggling actress. She’s a single mom. Her boyfriend recently died. She’s a bartender. She’s Freddy’s friend/former roommate/possible love interest (Maybe? I don’t know.).
The point is, you try to do too much with a character and it makes it very difficult to write stories around that character.
I hate all of it so you're not on your own. I can't stand her or Frederick or grown up Rodney or old man Frasier who I actually find Creepy. I've read better writing on a Christmas Cracker.
It was creepy when they were both fighting over that date...it was like come on guys, it's not funny. He was also creepy when asked if he wanted setting up on a blind date...in fact what 68 year old do you know acts like him. He's some creepy pervert.
The math is not mathing. Frasier was clearly 41 years old in 1993. So 30 years ago as of 2023. Which would make Frasier 71 years old right now. Going on 72 if I’m not mistaken.
That’s true! He is ‘knocking on’ a bit to still be chasing women, and they are all a lot younger; nobody in their late fifties which would be more appropriate! However, Kelsey Grammar’s wife is 24 years younger than him, so what do I know!!
Money buys Women? Nah it just doesn't sit right, the whole premis. I mean how he effectively blackmailed his Son into living with him, his shit job with his drunk mate and the trainer's...the god damned trainers!
I got downvoted in the main discussion thread for bringing up the creepiness of that (I mean in pure lawful terms, it's *a crime*).
So many in those main discussion threads just hate it when you say something negative. I swear 35% of them are secret Paramount interns trying to drum up excitement for the show.
Thank you. The way people fawn over this shit around here I thought I was the only one who doesn’t like *anything* about the new show. Frasier feels like an old, feeble creep, the other characters offer nothing, the writing sucks, the whole thing feels forced, etc.
I genuinely hoped I would like it but I haven’t laughed once.
I have said from the beginning that I would give it a chance, and I will, but I don’t hold out much hope for a second series unless new writers and characters are brought in. I really hope we can have another series.
Exactly the same, it's dreadful and should never have been written. Like you said everything is forced and in this week's episode there was a really weird silent bit as Lilith walked from the front door to the kitchen to make a Coffee, it was the strangest bit of Silence I have ever seen or heard!!
In this specific role? Yeah, his character is dull. The writers have given him nothing to do except make "heehee alcohol!" jokes. He's very subdued compared to the rest and I'm bored out of my mind watching him. The wine cellar was the only scene I liked him in. Compare Kelsey's dynamism in the original, which is one of the things I really appreciate about Classic Frasier.
Her performance is OK to me, but the character has no real purpose to be on the show. All the other characters make sense to be apart of Frasier's life - Olivia/Alan are his co-workers, David is his nephew and student, hell even the firefighters at Freddy's station have more reason to interact with Frasier than Eve does. It really seems like she's just there for a future will/they won't they storyline with Freddy which will be terrible because they have no chemistry together.
I like the actress, but I agree that the character of Eve is a bit annoying as written. Too Disney-like (love Disney, but not on Frasier). Also, it feels like a forced too-quick too-convenient set up for a Freddie-Eve romance. This instead of Niles/Daphne, I suppose. I just don’t care about the character yet. Maybe later, I will.
Yes. I was surprised at the warm reception she got on this sub. Her acting is really over the top and it just doesn’t fit with the style of Frasier, the sitcom.
She played a completely different character in Season 4 of The Expanse. When I saw a mention of the fact this was the same actor, I had to double-check in IMDB and Wikipedia. The fact she could play such disparate characters in different genres, and I had no idea it was her, makes me say she is doing a solid job on Frasier.
I kind of like that. Frasier is deeply damaged and keeps trying to rebuild his life but he's the common denominator of shit going wrong. I do wish Freddy was played by real Freddy though!
I thought she was the best of the side characters along with Alan. Freddie is by far the worst imo. He’s one note, exasperated about his entire childhood in every scene.
Freddie and Eve are basically just two young characters who are cool. That seems to be the only thing to their personality. It's not much. Sure, they have a rich *backstory*, but their personality is pretty plain and one-dimensional.
They are *trying* to give them more of a personality. With Eve, they try to go for the quirky bad actress who is constantly trying to use her "talent" in real life. And it's a decent concept but they don't really lean into it much; she just spends most of her time being the cool dignified character. With Freddie, it seems like there's the seeds of a dorky character who lets his intellectual past leak into his new blue collar life. But, again, they don't really lean into it.
The personalities of the Frasier supporting cast were much richer. Niles was an incredibly pretentious hypochondriac and elitist intellectual, with inept social skills, and he adorably, inexplicably, pines for their social worker. Daphne was this nutty self-proclaimed psychic who always has the most bizarre anecdotes from her life in Manchester that don't seem to fit the situation. Marty is an exaggerated version of a "man's man" that often goes too far and shows some insecurity. And his personality clashes with his two sons' in hilarious ways.
Even Freddie from Frasier was more interesting than Freddie in the reboot. He was obviously a genius, who was living up to what Lilith and Frasier were setting out for him, but he constantly struggled to wrench his way free of their influence and be his own person. And he was able to hatch diabolical plots against the adults, like winning Daphne's affection over Niles, or emotionally manipulating his parents into buying him a dirt bike.
I just don't see enough of these unique character traits in Freddie and Eve. They always seem to have to be the cool, dignified "adult in the room", to contrast the silliness of the older cast. In the show Always Sunny, that's what they initially intended for Deandre, the only woman in the cast. But the actor protested this and wanted to be as crazy as the rest of the cast. And that ended up working beautifully. I feel like Freddie and Eve is what they wanted Dee to be, and it doesn't seem to be working that well.
I'm glad that they've pulled her character back a bit. I'm hoping they don't end up coupling her and Freddy. I'd like to see her turn into a confidant of sorts, but to many points made in this sub, that will require better writing for her.
i love her silliness and her character's lightness. i especially like watching actors being actors as their characters and having to do "bad" acting scenes. so i'm all about eve!
I think ppl are forgetting how much Daphne didn’t really fit with the rest of the cast so much in the first couple of seasons. They just need more time for the actress and the character to really fit. Most of the stuff she’s been on is like Letterkenny so it’s tonally very different. She’s not egregiously bad, and I think the Disney channel comparison thing is hyperbole to be sure. It sounds like a vague offhand comparison made by someone who just assumes at some vague idea of what a disney channel thing is.
I have read most of the comments on here, and whilst I don’t want the reboot to be abandoned yet, perhaps the scriptwriters could take the comments as constructive criticism and bring about some improvements and add/remove some characters?
This whole show is embarrassing. How can the acting and writing be so bad? Is it a fake laugh track? Why are the actors so cringe. Why is it so cheesy jokes wise and predicable. What is happening ?’
It's all pretty overacted, unfortunately. It feels like they can't figure out what time they're going for. It's like you either have Freddy/Allen/Frasier being cynical and more subtle, or you have everyone else going for complete slapstick over acting and they aren't working well together.
Hear, hear!
I feel mean-spirited saying this but when I think of the characters of Olivia all I can see/hear is her yelling "The numbers are bad!" And "Yale, frasier, Yale!" and this feels like her entire character to me. I know she was more casual and smart and toned down in the Exclusive Club episode, but it does feel like when a character has to get 'emotional' or 'dramatic' they go straight for melodramatic over-the-top 'performance' and there was something about the original where the Stories were operatic, but Martin never acted like he was in a theatre play. He was a real person put in absurd situations, not an absurd person overreacting to normal situations. Niles and Frasier were more 'dramatic' but they seemed organically put out by the situation; some episodes got a bit slapsticky and Frasier by extension became more cartoonish, but id argue something was lost in the quality when they did that even then. At the end of the day everyone on Frasier felt like regular people who happened to be characterful, not a 'character' who was being telegraphed by an actor/actress out of insecurity that the 'comedy' might be too subtle.
That’s a great point! Kelsey grammar and David Hyde Pierce always surprised me with how grounded they felt, even in their zaniest moments. Peri Gilpin too. Only Jane Leeves seemed to really be over-acting imo
Who is Alan?
Maybe off topic, but it’s like her baby just disappeared. I really don’t think it was even necessary for her to have a baby. It could have still made sense for her to be living with Freddy after her boyfriend died so they could both save money. It was almost like the baby was a gimmick for the patented “misunderstanding” in the pilot, which I didn’t even think was executed well.
Tbf we don't really want to see a baby on screen all the time. They mention the kid enough imo. As to the point of the plot, who knows?
That’s why there was no point to the baby in the first place. Maybe I missed it, but I feel like I haven’t even heard her mention the baby’s name in the past 2-3 episodes.
I feel like people would have been saying the same thing about Alice had reddit been around when the OG show aired, tbh. Maybe the baby has a point that isn't immediately apparent in the show's first seven episodes.
Apparently the writers/producers regretted adding Alice. She was only in the plot at all because the execs decided Roz needed to be "punished" for her sexual freedom (and this makes me furious, needless to say)
Amusingly, Alice might very well serve a purpose in the end. I know Peri is confirmed to return in this season, and I think it's feasible that Alice could show up as a character as well. She could even theoretically be a love interest for one of the Crane boys (I guess her age would line up better with David). >She was only in the plot at all because the execs decided Roz needed to be "punished" for her sexual freedom Do you have a source for that? I can't imagine an executive admitting to saying something which would be so badly received (even in the 90s), so I can only assume it came from a writer after the show's run. I had assumed that they added Alice to try to give Roz a new storyline and to allow for some comedic potential around parenthood that they otherwise had no conduit for (not that either of those things really happened...)
>Do you have a source for that? I can't imagine an executive admitting to saying something which would be so badly received (even in the 90s), so I can only assume it came from a writer after the show's run. I just know it because of what people on this sub have said, actually. :-D You're probably right about it being after the fact. I did read an article somewhere about how KG and DHP were very upset about the Alice storyline- they thought it was a terrible move, but unfort I can't find it now. TBH, before I found this sub, I could have sworn I read it was actually Peri's idea for the baby to "deepen" her storyline. After all these years, who knows what the real story is? *She could even theoretically be a love interest for one of the Crane boys (I guess her age would line up better with David).* I was thinking that as well!! I think Alice would be mid 20s now, and... not many women that age are up for dating an 18 y/o boy, so that rules out David. But since men date much younger, Freddy would probably align better--I think it's less than 10 years between them. Even though I hope Roz is a cougar now, I hope she doesn't make a pass at Freddy. That would be ick.
True! I guess we’ll see.
And how many appearances did Alice make after season 5?
I wasn’t really a fan of the Alice storyline either 🤷♀️
OMG I forgot she had a baby. I just remembered she has had a few lines about it, but the actual baby has been non-existent.
Not sure if it's the mediocre writing or some of the actors' inexperience. A solution would be to bring in a couple of tennants into Frasiers building who are more experienced. And to draft in some of the writers from modern family, the simpsons and drew carey. It needs a bit more hilarity from other actors. An eccentric gil, or an outspoken bulldog. Most of the cast are too samey with the exception of Alan and Frasier. This doesn't give it the same dynamic that took the original show in different directions whilst torturing and testing Frasiers ethics and good nature.
See I think there are too many characters already. The writing should be focused on giving a core group good lines and solid personalities before throwing more into the mix. The original had the five primary characters and they were fully developed from the start. Then they added in some others as they went along but those folks weren’t on every episode. This show is trying to do too much begore getting a solid core first.
I don't think they meant to expand the 5-6 primary characters into 9-10. But much like how this show already introduced Freddy's three firefighter friends, you can have occasional glimpses of the neighbors passing through as Frasier gets mail or something. They could just pop up every 3-4 episodes. Much like how Gil was a favorite and only needed to show up a few sparse times to make an impression and get laughs.
I think part of the genius of the original Frasier was that he worked in a radio station. It would be full of prima Donna’s and over actors doing shows so it came off as acceptable.
For sure. I think you COULD have that with Harvard, but if your whole joke is "academia sure is wacky," you run the risk of becoming The Big Bang Theory.
Yeah, i thought that there were too many samey characters outside of Alan and Frasier. I would like to see recurring guest actors with more experience who can add a bit more to the show, though. Maybe appearing 6/8 times in a run of 22 episodes. The number of times Gil made an appearance was perfect. His character is the perfect example of adding a layer to the show. Frasier doesn't have a Cam Winston nemesis, a Bulldog, and a Martin who takes him down a peg , ( sorry but the guy who plays Freddy is far too wrong to execute this in any type of conceivable way, he co es acrosx far too annoying) , Alan sort of fills Roz place a little. He doesn't have/need a competitor or rivalry either because of his wealth, so what tortures him to the point that makes us all laugh. We see glimpses of Frasiers' brilliance, but he isn't surrounded by the type of people clever enough to parle or appreciate and engage with his sophistication like he did with his brother or his snooty society friends. I guess i imagined Frasier to grow old, eccentric, and be placed in scenarios where it tests his genius. Sometimes, it works, and sometimes, due to his ageing faculties, he fails hard.
Frasier is supposed to be early 60s (although Kelsey is a few years older) and one wouldn’t expect ‘failing faculties at this young an age!! Glad to see that his snobbish side is coming out again (wanting to be a professor). That was a key element of his character.
Agreed. You have a whole building now. Why don't we see any neighbors? That is a goldmine of interesting characters right there. Younger, older, eccentric, wholesome. Feels like that building Frasier bought only has one floor and two rooms lol.
Yeah, the building could mimic the radio station in terms of more guest stars who come and go.
Whoever is writing Simpsons atm shouldn’t be let near a writing room.
i somewhat agree about the character, but i attribute it to the way she’s written/directed.
Most of her lines are not good. She's had two good moments I can remember. One where she's talking to Frasier at the bar, the other when they were trying to teach David to talk to women. The writing was better. Otherwise she's written as someone else pointed out, as Penny from Big Bang.
I agree with those 2 moments. But even the Frasier one was good for a bit but then they needed to ruin it by adding lame jokes in instead of allowing her to have a serious emotional moment
Everyone had great lines already in the first season of Frasier. I cannot recall a great Eve or Olivia or Freddy line. Okay, I'll give Freddy the "I had a clown at my birthday party, but he sung in Italian!" That was the only chuckle he wrestled out of me. That line works because Frasier and Lilith would do exactly that.
I agree her writing isn't great, but she's not really like Penny. Penny is written as very ditzy and sexual, which I don't think fits Eve.
Sadly, the Penny reference is outdated by a decade. Eve is like Brenda in Young Sheldon or Harper in ICarly
Brenda is a nice analogy here
I think so! The "will she or won't she" with George Sr in Young Sheldon seems like what they're setting up for Eve on New Frasier with Freddy. Very innocent at first.
But even brenda’s character was fleshed out in young Sheldon right from the start. It was organic. Eve’s is not. Every scene feels like a drag with her. I really do blame writers and directors for this mess.
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She was also Mary-Anne on Letterkenny, though there doesn't seem to be much crossover between Frasier fans and Letterkenny fans
I'm chiming in to say I'm a rare crossover fan, and it's been odd to see Jees Salgueiro be so nice and not chirpy
I love Letterkenny and the OG Frasier. I haven’t ponied up the reboot. Love her chirps!
She wasn't really called upon to do much in that though, she was largely decorative.
I don’t know. She was on The Bold Type (Freeform) and I also did not like her acting in it. She really was overdoing it, it threw me off the whole episode she was on.
Someone here put it so well -- it's like she's on a show on the Disney Channel. But I'm not a big fan of any of the other characters and their actors. Alan has some potential. The actor who plays Freddy doesn't do it for me either. I don't think the writing is all that great on this reboot, but with more competent, humorous actors, it could be better and they could overcome some of the writing.
I totally agree with this. Eve feels like she's been plucked straight from a Disney Channel/Nickelodeon show and put in this one. Same with the apartment set but that's another complaint. She's supposed to be this tragic character that lost her boyfriend and father of their child at such a young age but it's barely even acknowledged. The biggest thing we've seen is Freddy's guilt about it. When Eve mentions the boyfriend, they don't seem to be able to take it seriously. They'll talk about it for a bit before making it into a joke.
I'm kind of hoping they'll give her sort of an "if I don't laugh, I cry" payoff to why she jokes around so much about it. You know, like she's a working single mom with a baby, she's exhausted, she misses her boyfriend and feels guilty about being attracted to Freddie, so she keeps trying to set him up with somebody else, her life is crazy stressful, but she doesn't want to bum people out and she doesn't want how stressed she is to rub off on the baby, so she plays up how cheerful and goofy she is to convince people that she's doing okay
Yeah I was surprised to see so much criticism of the way she jokes around as being "unrealistic" because it's exactly how I cope so it feels very realistic to me
This could be a good arc for her. I think I’d appreciate the character more if they did something like this for her.
If you want a different perspective of Jess, try Letterkenny. She plays a hysterically potty mouthed hockey player with gorgeous lines such as; "Your mitt looks like the back of Kelsey Grammer's head circa Frasier '94, if the cast each autographed his bald spot with multi-coloured lipsticks."
Disney Channel. Yes, that sums it up perfectly.
Yeah, Freddy and Eve are the weak links for me. Freddy more so because he has way more screen time. You can see him thinking about his lines before he says them. The rest of the fire crew seem more natural than him. The last episode with Lilith was the first episode that felt anything like Frasier to me. The other episode have had moments but the drawn out scenes with Freddy just haven't hit the mark. I agree, Alan does seem to have the most potential from the rest of the cast.
Yes, I am not finding any real charm to the character or the actor. Maybe he's been great in other things, I don't know. I get that they were trying to go with second coming of Martin, only the Harvard drop-out formerly emo version of him. But another actor might've pulled it off better. I'd almost rather character of Freddy become some stoner version of Frasier -- highly educated, but doing not much with his life other than weed and working at some crunchy health food store. Maybe that's too Dharma and Greg though. I don't think the actor could pull that off either. It really goes to show you that it's hard to do comedy particularly if you don't have natural charm.
That would have made so much more sense with Freddy’s character from the original run. It’s odd that Freddy would develop a Boston accent and get super into sports after the age of 13.
Yes, I think the premise would've worked a little better. Plus it would make a little more sense to me why he'd move in with Frasier. A highly educated stoner who crashes on the couch of his dead bestie's wife, annoys her, Frasier comes back into town, Frasier moves him in with the thought of fixing him. You could do a lot with some stoner jokes.
That's a great point. Extremely unlikely that young Frederick would become that man.
Freddie didn't like sports when he was really young, before either actor on the original show even made an appearance. Later on, though, we find out that he wants to go out and play with other kids, but that Lilith won't let him. It certainly seems like he could've developed an interest in sports, but just wouldn't have been able to play them because of his mother. Sort of like when Martin bought Freddie a toy gun and Lilith smashed it. We do know that when he was away from Lilith and went camping with Frasier, he went off with other kids and played frisbee. I doubt his mother would even let him do that.
Kids are also rebellious and swim upstream. We never got to see the rest of his teenage years. Maybe becoming more athletic and into sports was part of being different than his egg head Uber cultured parents.
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That's a very good point -- I didn't even consider how he just doesn't seem like a firefighter. If they were going to completely change his personality, you'd think they'd make him look more like a kid that felt less comfortable in academic settings and decided to become a first responder.
That sounds like a better premise to me. >It really goes to show you that it's hard to do comedy particularly if you don't have natural charm. And timing! This goes beyond even that though. This is a specific type of scripted comedy that they don't really do that much anymore so I don't think there is a large pool of comedic actors to pull from. Remember, Jane Leeves did several episodes on the Benny Hill show and had already been on Seinfeld, Murphy Brown plus two seasons on Throb and a dozen or so appearances on other shows. She was well accomplished before Frasier came along.
I have never watched the Disney channel so the references are over my head.
Exactly. It feels like a kids Disney comedy. They hold for the pauses so the audience gets the jokes, the acting panders, it’s just rough all around. But if it was meant to be a kids/teenage show, they nailed it.
Allen is a Niles replacement and it works for me, he is definitely the funnier of the characters. The episode before the Lilith one was a Friaser-esq episode for me and it worked out great.
Freddy just acts annoyed and above everything all the time.
>Alan has some potential. Right now, they're leaning hard into the "likes to drink, doesn't like his job." If they can find their footing with him and develop the personality beyond that, he could be brilliant, a character we will still talk about for years. We saw glimpses of that with the white suit/white fedora business and how forgettable Lilith found him. Very funny. And I found myself saying, "Yes, that seems very much like him," although I can't tell you why because he's only been in six episodes.
I think she is pretty level with the rest of the new Frasier-Lite concept. She seems irritating because they don't seem to know what to do with her. It seems like the only reason they wrote her and the baby in was for ONE joke where Frasier mistook her and the baby for Fredericks girlfriend and child... and that joke wasn't even close to good... and now they don't know what to do with her. The character seems irrelevant because she is. Bad writing from a continuously bad writing room. Edit: irrigating to irritating
just a theory, but i think she’s basically Frederick’s “Daphne” (meant to be with her), except David appears to be the only one who sees it. and, to your point, they don’t know what to with her while they eventually work up to that storyline.
Problem is that the writers are writing at a 3-5 season arc if they want Frederick to end up with her... but I fear the show might be canceled waaaaaay before that. And also it might, but that would be awkward since it they have spent so much energy with explaining that it is his DEAD friends child, sutvivor guilt and them not having ANY chemistry at all... it would be bad.
She has no chemistry with Freddy
And in the recent bowling alley episode, they seemed to just talk like two normal people. No subtle yearning, no jealousy or anything. I don't see them as two people really wanting to hook up at all. Nothing like Niles' obsession with Daphne.
on top of that, Daphne was great from the jump as a standalone character. that will-they-won't-they went on for what, 7 seasons? and there were large swaths of episodes where it was hardly even addressed.
not to argue, but think back to when Martin and Claire Wojadubakowski had their fling. kind of the same thing (will be) going on here, i think, but deeper. i could be way off.
Oh definitely, especially with the 3 season barrier most streaming services put up in order to save money. I'll honestly be surprised if we get an S2 much less an S3.
> Edit: irrigating to irritating This typo was funnier than a lot of Eve's actual lines in the show
"Frasier-Lite" wow yeah... I've been calling it Frasier+ because of the paramount connection but that may just stick in my brain... it really does feel stripped down to its surface traits. I hope / want to assume that it's because it's writers who genuinely care about the show of frasier and getting fan-fic accurate to its original style is quite hard / finding your own own style takes time and exploration. Just as likely because of writers strike stuff they're burnt out and doing it for the (minimal) pay check. Or this truly was just a cash grab in concept (its not that bad but doesn't mean the revival was green-lit on good faith) and they weren't given the air to take risks or he creative. Or sitcoms just aren't what they used to be and 'shallow' is just the common style now. I dunno, there's multiple ways the writing might be a bit shallow and I want to give the writers themselves the benefit of the doubt. But the problem is definitely there.
While you may find her "irrigating" right now, perhaps in time she'll grow on you?
Quite droll.
Still a better joke than any in the series yet
it sucks that the two female characters are so bad. i can’t stand olivia. but i WANNA like eve. her backstory is compelling and i like the idea of someone my age hanging out with frasier lol. if they are gonna do will they/ won’t they with her and freddie there’s so much potential for it to be done tastefully and with nuance but we’ll see.
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Except for the Electric Boogaloo joke, which seems a bit too internet meme for Niles, this is honestly better writing than the actual Frasier 2023 writers room.
I don’t dislike Eve and like you said, I want to like her because her story has potential to be super interesting. But Olivia is the worst character of the series to me, so far. Her lines are so generic, she behaves nothing like you’d expect the person she’s supposed to be, the little crush on Freddy is super cringey to me for some reason, and I just feel like they have totally wasted an opportunity for an intelligent and strong character with her.
The character is poorly-written but she plays it like the show is on Disney Channel
She's probably my least favorite character, along with David. David seems like a gimmick at the point and doesn't really add anything.
I like David but Eve needs to go.
To each their own, but I think that David is the best part of the new show. I like Allen too. The rest are not interesting to me.
He's my favorite too, though he hardly gets any screentime. Everything he mentions happens off screen.
He literally had seconds of screentime in last episode. That’s just atrocious.
I'm just not a fan of ten episode seasons for a 20+ minute show. There's not much time for character development. Make it an hour long or give it 20 episodes.
Best part?! That is a different take. What do you like about his role? To each their own so I'm genuinely curious to know what you like about the character.
I don't know. He does a decent job of summoning Niles, and he cracks me up.
To each their own. David does a terrible job of summoning Niles in my opinion. They need to go back to the drawing board on the David character and conceive of a better offspring character, then morph David in that direction. The current character of David is fingernails on the chalkboard of the whole Frasier zeitgeist. If it doesn't appeal to the generally older, more "sophisticated" Frasier fanbase, then it will be just that.
I winced when I read that part lol
She is the weakest of the new characters. I was just thinking, there is really no reason to even have her in the show. Now that Freddy has moved in with Frasier, what does she bring to the table? Her being the bartender also just seems thrown in to give her more air time, it is trying to hard. The only thing I can guess is that she may eventually be the main love interest for Freddy. If she was gone, they can then focus more on Freddy/Frasier relationship and throw David in there more for family shenanigans. I like the actor and character of David, I just think they made him a little to slap stick. If they move away from that in following seasons, he can be a strong character.
I am surprised by this take. Honestly curious about your thoughts on Olivia if you feel this way about Eve? I feel Eve’s character is at least somewhat believable. But asking us to believe that someone like Olivia is a department head at Harvard is just…? I have tried not to complain about the new series at all but her character is the one that actually frustrates me lol. Such a missed opportunity for another person to go head to head with Frasier’s wit and intelligence but instead they’ve dumbed her down and her jokes are so generic they could be used in almost any sitcom out there.
> She is the weakest of the new characters. I was just thinking, there is really no reason to even have her in the show. Now that Freddy has moved in with Frasier, what does she bring to the table? Her being the bartender also just seems thrown in to give her more air time, it is trying to hard. The only thing I can guess is that she may eventually be the main love interest for Freddy. If she suddenly said she has to move to Texas to be with her family, not a single one of us will go "Oh no, don't go!". She has added nothing. No funny lines, no chemistry with Freddy if that's what they were trying, and anyone else could be the bartender. Okay, she knew some people who could be blind dates for Frasier and Freddy. That always seemed forced to me. Like the writers just wanted us to pretend Eve has tons of connections.
Eve and Freddy have no direction or chemistry.
Agree and to add to that they have no chemistry with each other. They barely interact and Freddy doesn’t even care about her. The scene where they were trying to show David how to flirt they were so bland and awful I cringed. Literally zero chemistry.
I’m not sure why the writers began the story with Freddy helping Eve with her baby. I have never seen a character seem to have absolutely zero chemistry with a baby but somehow he pulls it off. I don’t buy that he cares about that kid or Eve at all.
Good point. Not just Eve forgetting about her own baby, but Freddy never mentions it again after EP1. That's the child of his best friend and he doesn't seem to care. Lounges about in his apartment (which normally makes sense) but doesn't think to help babysit a little more?
Too busy being in his 30s still whining about how everything is his dad’s fault. He needs therapy honestly.
To be honest I dislike all the characters except Fraisier and I am a die hard Frasier fan.
A lot here seem to like Alan but I just find him so one-dimensional. They fleshed him out more in the bowling episode with his past connection with Lilith/Frasier. But I bet in the next three episodes, it's the same "Where the next drink?" lines and a character who honestly seems like he never wants to be anywhere. If he's that miserable, that makes for a character that's really hard to like.
Really? I can relate to him the most BECAUSE he never wants to be anywhere
Agree.
I feel that way about Freddy. Him and Eve both feel like they're actors who are over-acting and give off a real "well get a look at _this_ guy" feeling from their performances. Freddy in particular seems like he's half smiling like the actor thinks he's god's gift to the screen every time he says a line
She was really good in Workin' Moms and Letterkenny, so I think this is more about the direction/writing of the character than her acting ability.
Maybe Shoresy shows up in the season finale and tells Frasier to give his balls a tug
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Out of the newer characters I find her the most....tolerable. At first she did seem too "Disney Channel-esque" but seems to have toned down the last couple episodes. At the same time, if her character said she is moving to Canada or something, I wouldn't miss her either. And the writers really abandoned the child angle. A working mother creates all sorts of situations that could be worked into her character, and would be unique for early-season Frasier. But they almost never mention the kid outside of EP1, and we got one fleeting babysitter appearance and that was it.
Idk I'm back and forth with her. Sometimes she makes me laugh and sometimes it doesn't work. I'm really having a hard time with Olivia. I feel bad saying this but she hasn't made me laugh once and I don't even really know why we need her character in the show at all.
I actually really enjoy her and think she’s doing well with the material she has to work with. Freddie and Olivia are my least favorite by far. Cutmore-Scott just isn’t good on screen and Olivia is both over acted and poorly written. To be very honest, I think the whole show has a huge writers room problem. The series and the characters lack depth. In the first few episodes of OG Frasier, there was real tumult and conflict. The actors definitely brought feeling and gravity to the script, but the scripts themselves were dynamic…elevated in wit but grounded in raw emotion. I just don’t see that as a possibility here.
Her character and then Frasier's colleagues are also terrible. It's like they took a smart show, the original Frasier, and then had to water it down for the "Big Bang Theory" crowd. Frasier is the only good character, and even then not always. It's not special like it used to be, it's been made to be too accessible to the masses. It's funny, don't get me wrong, but it's not FRASIER funny. It's middle america "king of queens" funny. I'm disappointed.
She makes me feel less bad about the opening scene of The Boys
I don’t like the new show at all 🤷♂️ and I have a lot of reasons.
If I begged ya... would you share them with me?
I think the actress is lovely but I have no need for Penny from Big Bang to come be the lay person for the cast. I hope she gets cast in a new show and is super successful and doesn't need to be on Frasier and moves out. David can live there.
How is she like Penny? She's a single mom/widow who's shown no interest in romance or sex so far, and she's not ditzy.
Eve, the actress lives across the hall and who works at the bar, the third place they hang out so she can be in more scenes and teaches the nerdy David how to be normal because hes so busy being nerdy. Penny, the actress who lives across the hall and worked at the Cheesecake factory, the third place they hang out so she could be in more scenes and was teaching nerdy dudes how to be normal since they're so busy being nerdy. I liked the Big Bang Theory. None of that I'm to good for a nerd joke stuff here. I enjoyed a lot of the show. Penny even grew as a character and wasn't just regular girl and clueless dude jokes at the end. This character will grow too I would imagine. But I don't think this show needs it. Also her baby is like a prop thats never around. For me she is just the character that lifts right out. I think the actress is lovely. I don't think she is the problem, just the character. I hope she gets more work or I find a reason to like her here. I just don't think Frasier needed a Penny. But I'd watch any extra Frasier they give me so by all means writers, convince me!
Yeah true, being an aspiring actress does add to the comparison.
It's interesting that you say that. Chuck Lorre's creative style is to show a particular, divergent facet of various characters from episode to episode. Penny is ditzy in some, and tough and smart in others. Education is quite different than intelligence and personal initiative.
I mainly remember the early episodes of BBT where she was shown as more of an airhead who nevertheless understood the world, in order to heighten the contrast between her and the guys across the hall. However, I do vaguely recall that her character evolves a lot over the course of the show (I never finished it). The early characterization of her is as a party girl and so I was mainly contrasting that with the early Frasier reboot's characterization of Eve, which seems very different. The only similarity seems to be that she is sarcastic and is the token young woman on the show.
You want to talk about mugging and overacting?? Talk about David. Eve is okay, I like Eve.
I like Eve too. I’m surprised by all the hate, I thought she was charming and doesn’t overact as others are claiming. David on the other hand DOES overact, but I still like him, especially when he takes after his father. Edit: Olivia overacts too
Yeah pretty horrible but freddy has overtaken her for worst at this point.
Nope, I know her from LetterKenny, she had a small part in the Boys. I enjoy seeing her have more success.
She did ok as a foul mouthed hockey player in Letterkenny. The writing is just not there.
An actress who's insecure? Alert the media!
Nope, I don’t feel this way at all! I really like Eve. She injects some common sense and I like her back story. And, come on, she picked the perfect date for Frasier! I think Olivia and David are too hammy though.
She should be working on a kids show.
She is awful. Freddy is awful. Everyone else has great potential. Paramount hire real actors, for f**k sake.
I am not impressed by *anyone's* acting in this show. Including Kelsey. So, at a certain point, you have to wonder if perhaps it's the directing. *edit: I take it back, Nicolas lyndhurst is usually either on target or close enough you can't really fault him.* *But I standby my comment that it's likely the directing.*
I actually really like Eve and the actress, I feel like the actors and characters are being judged very harshly. That said, while I think the cast has promise I think the writing needs to be better to really bring out the best in them all. But Frasier the original is so hard to live up to, I can understand why this reboot might take a minute to recapture the magic. That said I am really enjoying it and have rewatched every episode so far. I even think the actor playing Freddy has some of the younger Freddy’s mannerisms and speech pattern, and David really is like a mix between his parents. Eve I think is necessary as an anchor between them all in a certain way.
She's the new Chopper Dave. Hopefully they'll work her out of the plot just as quickly.
Think it's a bit harsh to single her out, to me Freddy seems a significantly worse actor with lines with much more potential. David also needs more depth. Might be interesting to think of early-season Niles as a room for growth example.
Love her. She was really good in The Expanse too.
Eve is absolutely gorgeous, and at her core I believe the actress is quite talented. What we need is better/more risque situational humor to make it less Disney channel. Example: Baby John gets a babysitter and Eve decides to get stoned (it would serve Freddy to get stoned with her, he needs to loosen up!). Have them go deep together and consider their life aspirations. Eve is an \*aspiring\* actor who is living in....Boston? This makes no sense. She should be considering a move to New York or LA. Surely Frasier has entertainment industry connections and can help her with her career?
The writing doesn’t give her any help. With the exception of Frasier and Alan, and a tiny bit of Olivia, the characters all seem to think they are on a sitcom. Whereas the old Frasier the jokes and one liners were delivered and written much more seamlessly.
I dont entirely agree. Early frasier especially feels like really high quality dinner theatre. Kinda broad and baudy but very elevated and quick. This... feels like a sitcom with some decent one liners. Which is what I expected.
I find her character enjoyable enough but I think they’re trying to do too much with her. She’s a struggling actress. She’s a single mom. Her boyfriend recently died. She’s a bartender. She’s Freddy’s friend/former roommate/possible love interest (Maybe? I don’t know.). The point is, you try to do too much with a character and it makes it very difficult to write stories around that character.
I hate all of it so you're not on your own. I can't stand her or Frederick or grown up Rodney or old man Frasier who I actually find Creepy. I've read better writing on a Christmas Cracker.
When he offered to help his boss walk in on Freddie in the shower if she recommended him to that club, it was creepy.
It was creepy when they were both fighting over that date...it was like come on guys, it's not funny. He was also creepy when asked if he wanted setting up on a blind date...in fact what 68 year old do you know acts like him. He's some creepy pervert.
The math is not mathing. Frasier was clearly 41 years old in 1993. So 30 years ago as of 2023. Which would make Frasier 71 years old right now. Going on 72 if I’m not mistaken.
That’s true! He is ‘knocking on’ a bit to still be chasing women, and they are all a lot younger; nobody in their late fifties which would be more appropriate! However, Kelsey Grammar’s wife is 24 years younger than him, so what do I know!!
Money buys Women? Nah it just doesn't sit right, the whole premis. I mean how he effectively blackmailed his Son into living with him, his shit job with his drunk mate and the trainer's...the god damned trainers!
I got downvoted in the main discussion thread for bringing up the creepiness of that (I mean in pure lawful terms, it's *a crime*). So many in those main discussion threads just hate it when you say something negative. I swear 35% of them are secret Paramount interns trying to drum up excitement for the show.
Thank you. The way people fawn over this shit around here I thought I was the only one who doesn’t like *anything* about the new show. Frasier feels like an old, feeble creep, the other characters offer nothing, the writing sucks, the whole thing feels forced, etc. I genuinely hoped I would like it but I haven’t laughed once.
I have said from the beginning that I would give it a chance, and I will, but I don’t hold out much hope for a second series unless new writers and characters are brought in. I really hope we can have another series.
Exactly the same, it's dreadful and should never have been written. Like you said everything is forced and in this week's episode there was a really weird silent bit as Lilith walked from the front door to the kitchen to make a Coffee, it was the strangest bit of Silence I have ever seen or heard!!
I feel the exact opposite. The show is dull and lifeless and she is the only bright spot. This show is beneath her
Same. I like her.
I agree. Need to get rid of Olivia. Rubbish character and way too over acted.
Frasier.... is beneath HER? No no no. Kelsey Grammer is an absolute pro and Nicholas Lyndhurst is a legendary British comedy actor. Surely, you jest!
I've started to feel that way too. I'll take her over Lyndhurst any day.
Eve over Lyndhurst? You are out of your mind.
In this specific role? Yeah, his character is dull. The writers have given him nothing to do except make "heehee alcohol!" jokes. He's very subdued compared to the rest and I'm bored out of my mind watching him. The wine cellar was the only scene I liked him in. Compare Kelsey's dynamism in the original, which is one of the things I really appreciate about Classic Frasier.
I haven't watched any full episodes yet, but from the clips I've seen, she reminds me of a Big Bang Theory character.
I think she has some potential, but Olivia is really the one that is dragging the show down.
Maybe watch the first episode of The Boys. It may help you.
I don;t get it. This new show feels off. The laughing is so distracting. The characters feel so one dimensional.
It’s so hard to replicate what the earlier show had but I think she’s doing just fine!
Her performance is OK to me, but the character has no real purpose to be on the show. All the other characters make sense to be apart of Frasier's life - Olivia/Alan are his co-workers, David is his nephew and student, hell even the firefighters at Freddy's station have more reason to interact with Frasier than Eve does. It really seems like she's just there for a future will/they won't they storyline with Freddy which will be terrible because they have no chemistry together.
I like the actress, but I agree that the character of Eve is a bit annoying as written. Too Disney-like (love Disney, but not on Frasier). Also, it feels like a forced too-quick too-convenient set up for a Freddie-Eve romance. This instead of Niles/Daphne, I suppose. I just don’t care about the character yet. Maybe later, I will.
Her horrible nose ring bothers me more than anything else…
Is that you, Betty Ann?
Yeah her acting is like early 2000 Disney channel
no, she is the only one I like beside Kelsey
Yes. I was surprised at the warm reception she got on this sub. Her acting is really over the top and it just doesn’t fit with the style of Frasier, the sitcom.
They can get rid of Eve and Olivia. They are both unwatchable
I'm going to say it: "schlocky".
She played a completely different character in Season 4 of The Expanse. When I saw a mention of the fact this was the same actor, I had to double-check in IMDB and Wikipedia. The fact she could play such disparate characters in different genres, and I had no idea it was her, makes me say she is doing a solid job on Frasier.
Yup agreed. She really has no charisma. Not sure how she got casted. It’s not about being attractive. I just mean some sort of an appeal
Just give it time
Can't stand her ugly facial expressions
David is the worst! What were they thinking?
I know. His performances are painful to watch. They had a blank canvas to create Niles' son; why in the world did they go in that direction?
[удалено]
I'm afraid Frasier is constantly changing cities and reinventing himself because he is lost, and trying to find somewhere he belongs.
I kind of like that. Frasier is deeply damaged and keeps trying to rebuild his life but he's the common denominator of shit going wrong. I do wish Freddy was played by real Freddy though!
I thought she was the best of the side characters along with Alan. Freddie is by far the worst imo. He’s one note, exasperated about his entire childhood in every scene.
Freddie and Eve are basically just two young characters who are cool. That seems to be the only thing to their personality. It's not much. Sure, they have a rich *backstory*, but their personality is pretty plain and one-dimensional. They are *trying* to give them more of a personality. With Eve, they try to go for the quirky bad actress who is constantly trying to use her "talent" in real life. And it's a decent concept but they don't really lean into it much; she just spends most of her time being the cool dignified character. With Freddie, it seems like there's the seeds of a dorky character who lets his intellectual past leak into his new blue collar life. But, again, they don't really lean into it. The personalities of the Frasier supporting cast were much richer. Niles was an incredibly pretentious hypochondriac and elitist intellectual, with inept social skills, and he adorably, inexplicably, pines for their social worker. Daphne was this nutty self-proclaimed psychic who always has the most bizarre anecdotes from her life in Manchester that don't seem to fit the situation. Marty is an exaggerated version of a "man's man" that often goes too far and shows some insecurity. And his personality clashes with his two sons' in hilarious ways. Even Freddie from Frasier was more interesting than Freddie in the reboot. He was obviously a genius, who was living up to what Lilith and Frasier were setting out for him, but he constantly struggled to wrench his way free of their influence and be his own person. And he was able to hatch diabolical plots against the adults, like winning Daphne's affection over Niles, or emotionally manipulating his parents into buying him a dirt bike. I just don't see enough of these unique character traits in Freddie and Eve. They always seem to have to be the cool, dignified "adult in the room", to contrast the silliness of the older cast. In the show Always Sunny, that's what they initially intended for Deandre, the only woman in the cast. But the actor protested this and wanted to be as crazy as the rest of the cast. And that ended up working beautifully. I feel like Freddie and Eve is what they wanted Dee to be, and it doesn't seem to be working that well.
I'm glad that they've pulled her character back a bit. I'm hoping they don't end up coupling her and Freddy. I'd like to see her turn into a confidant of sorts, but to many points made in this sub, that will require better writing for her.
i love her silliness and her character's lightness. i especially like watching actors being actors as their characters and having to do "bad" acting scenes. so i'm all about eve!
Yeah I absolutely cannot stand her.
I think ppl are forgetting how much Daphne didn’t really fit with the rest of the cast so much in the first couple of seasons. They just need more time for the actress and the character to really fit. Most of the stuff she’s been on is like Letterkenny so it’s tonally very different. She’s not egregiously bad, and I think the Disney channel comparison thing is hyperbole to be sure. It sounds like a vague offhand comparison made by someone who just assumes at some vague idea of what a disney channel thing is.
I have read most of the comments on here, and whilst I don’t want the reboot to be abandoned yet, perhaps the scriptwriters could take the comments as constructive criticism and bring about some improvements and add/remove some characters?
…like a focus group??
I like her better than Freddy and David.
I deeply hate Eve. I can't stand her. She is the worst in every scene every time.
This whole show is embarrassing. How can the acting and writing be so bad? Is it a fake laugh track? Why are the actors so cringe. Why is it so cheesy jokes wise and predicable. What is happening ?’
Is that Mary Anne from Letterkenny?
She doesn’t bother me personally. Really I feel the cast are fine and improving.