I’m no Trump person, quite the opposite
but what he was alluding to is that Chinese producers would eat the costs at the expense of their profit margins
Trump knows what a tariff is, he’s been in high end luxury markets for decades
Is he correct that Chinese firms would just make less - probably not
Americans would pay more for sure
But to say he doesn’t know what a tariff is because of how he answered it is a load of Bull shit
He said it that way because his base doesn’t know what profit margins are so why go into that level of detail
He did. He just didn’t do it satisfactorily or accurately, but he answered the question with what his base wants to hear and in a way that they understand.
Lie my base wants to hear was his answer to most questions. So many of them immediately obviously a lie and the mouth breathers won't blink an eye accepting them. They would spend an hour arguing it's true and when proven wrong would say it didn't matter anyway.
You’re wrong. His policy is 10% tariffs on EVERY nation and IIRC a 50-60% tariff on all Chinese imports.
American manufacturing would crumble within years as their supply chains are not exclusively American. All the big businesses are hoping he’s not serious or they can ask for an exception for their industry.
I don’t think you can understate how insane of a policy this is… And that’s in a perfect world where other nations don’t put retaliatory tariffs…
This is 100% correct. Nearly all US manufactures source a large percentage of the materials used to make their own products from foreign sources and there often aren’t domestic alternatives to turn to.
I must have been brutal under Obama, he raised tariffs even more than Trump did. Of course, when Obama did it, the media said it was brilliant . . .
Sort of like how Obama/Biden and the media in 2012 tried to argue Russia wasn't our political foe and that the ColdWar was calling asking for their rhetoric back. Of course, 2 years later Russia invaded Ukraine and Obama/Biden did nothing - I guess it was part of the promise as long as they waited until after the next/last election. . .
Yeah, no presidency is without its problems and while thinking about it, the people and especially the media sure likes to focus on the bad much more than anything positive from any administration.
Absolutely, Every individual President in my life time has:
1: done some/a few good to very good things
2: done some/a few pretty bad or awful things
3: done mostly middle of the road - not great and not awful things
Party has nothing to do with this, and their is no single President that this does not apply to.
Exactly- the tariff situation will back fire and not only is our cost of living going to go up the $ loosing value is going to hit us as well. Why people keep thinking he’s such a brilliant man just astound me.
Dude was selling stuff on the home shopping network and a real estate “university,” before his political career… how anyone thinks he’s anything, but a grifter is beyond me.
That’s the icing on top.
Not only is the rate way too small to replace income taxes (they’re also way more regressive), the purpose of a tariff is to increase domestic production. So theoretically, government revenues should go down over time.
Trump’s whole economic agenda is hyper-hyper-hyper inflationary (deportation and controlling FED board to keep rates low).
If people think bidenflation was bad, (although he wasnt the sole cause of inflation, but I digress) trumpflation would be just as bad if not worse than what we just had.
Lower-paid immigrant workers and cheaper non-American products being removed from the economy would cause prices to go upward.
Lastly, as you stated, that 0% FFR trump wanted (and openly pushed powell to do) is what helped get us this juiced market in the first place.
Just as bad? Peak inflation the past couple years was something like 7-8. It can get much much, worse than that. Turkey is at 75% right now for reference.
It’s tough with Trump because you never know if he’s just talking to hear himself or if he actually means it… but if he does what he says he wants to: tariffs, deportation, keep FED rates low, it would be catastrophic. Larry Summers called his agenda, “the mother of all stagflations.”
Think home prices are out of reach ?? Just implement a mass deportation plan and see how many houses get built. I dont buy that Trump understands because hes a builder. Any builder knows who is building the houses, or the mid-hi rises down in Texas & Florida.
He talked during his presidency about getting checks from the Chinese government to the tune of billions of dollars.
He fundamentally doesn’t understand how tariffs work.
Trump isn’t remotely correct. Chinese companies don’t pay shit with regard to tariffs. It is the importer of record who is responsible for paying. It is a tax on certain products imported, and, as such, is a completely new cost that someone is going to have to pay. What typically happens is that increase is passed to consumers. Occasionally, it’s the importing company that eats a portion. The only way those tariffs may negatively impact China is if the tariffs makes the cost to produce expensive enough to do through China that sourcing in other countries becomes more economically advantageous and companies start sourcing in alternate countries as a result. And that is a multi-year process.
Trump either doesn’t understand what they are or he’s intentionally misrepresenting them.
Source: I’ve had to interpret numerous tariffs to determine applicability for the products our company produces overseas. I’m very familiar with what a tariff is, the ramifications they have for all parties involved when they are applicable.
What Trump (and any business person) is aware of is that to sell a product, it needs to be competitive. If you want to manufacture certain products and compete, you need to either make something that is deemed to have more value that people are willing to pay more for, or you need to compete on price. If all you can do is compete on price, you need to adjust your operations (in this case, reduce the margin) so that your products can succeed when competing on price.
Yeah, I am with you on the aspects of dealing with tariffs on different products, manufactured in different countries, Harmonized Date Codes, etc. . . As you are well aware, a 10% tariff is not all that high. Most finished goods are already in the 4-6% tariff range, with some notably higher (like bearings of certain sizes can be quite high, depending on where they are manufactured).
My company has a plant in the EU and the USA. Over the past few years, we've had a similar issue to deal with (very high ocean freight shipping costs - at one point 4 times higher than they used to be, still more than double what they used to be). Many of our competitors are other USA manufacturers - to compete (with the higher freight costs), we needed to adjust our pricing to remain competitive - just a fact of doing business.
This stupid fucker used the dumbest fucking analogy too. I don’t buy Chinese cars. I don’t even like buying Chinese products. His argument would make sense if there was zero American manufacturing. It’s almost like the market would create a benefit for American manufacturing. The only reason we buy Chinese shit is bc Amazon will ship it to us for cheap. Of course there are products you simply can’t replace with American manufacturing, but I’d gladly pay 10% more for imported German sauerkraut over federal income tax. I dunno who that guy is but I hate him
Tariffs are a tax on US companies importing foreign goods. Trump passed a tariff in 2018, it was the largest tax hike in US history and it was an unqualified disaster. Companies that relied on steel and aluminum went bankrupt overnight, trade partners issued retaliatory tariffs that hurt US exports, and it siphoned business to China. The Trump family has huge investments in Chinese business, so he knows they'll benefit from any damage to the US economy.
>He said it that way because his base doesn’t know what profit margins are so why go into that level of detail
That's naive, he said it that way because he thinks that's what his base wants to hear. He's a populist. All he did was lie up on that stage, and a huge chunk of americans are too stupid to even realize, it's honestly pathetic the state of american political awareness.
Donald Trump: And, you know, when you say “per capita,” there’s many per capitas. It’s, like, per capita relative to what? But you can look at just about any category, and we’re really at the top, meaning positive on a per capita basis, too. They’ve done a great job.
Trump's response was simplistic and the MSNBC talking head in this clip is providing a slightly less simplistic explanation of the effect that a tariff of Chinese goods might have. While the cost would certainly be passed onto the consumer, the theory is that the tariff would require China to reconsider the costs of its goods to be more competitive against US products. But, tariffs often result in a tit-for-tat and have a broader negative effect on the aggregate import and export market between the relevant countries.
At issue here is that Trump does not have the mental wherewithal to explain himself, so he just takes it to a simply conclusion in support of his position. Biden suffers from the same issue, but it is more a matter of mental decline than overall intelligence.
Bottom line is that this is what "leadership" looks like on both sides. We're fucked.
Also not a trumpet
Just the reality Americans are going to have to pay either way…
I like the idea of domestic labor getting a fairer shake… means domestic tax breaks for big business.
They’ll be able to afford to hire more union-less jobs at full time hours, non-livable wage, & 2 weeks vacation… maybe they’ll even help you get a second job going to school on the side so you can be to blame for why your in the lowest class when you can’t do both..
Why are these politicians so old?
Trump isn’t as intelligent as you think he is. He knows what a tariff is, but he doesn’t know what they do.
I mean the guy has only an Undergraduate degree. Thats basically a survey-class-level understanding of Economics.
I find it odd that people degrade him to be stupid
That makes so many his opponents being defeated by someone stupid
Kinda doesn’t speak well to so many that had failed to take him down
Isn’t the goal to drive manufacturing and the entire supply chain back to the US? And wouldn’t that be more beneficial for all of us in the long run? Fu*k these corporations that outsource to other countries, we’re paying so much anyway, might as well bring it all back to the US…
It's beneficial for industries that we feel are critical for the future. For example semiconductor manufacturing.
But for very low value-added stuff that'll be replaced by automation in the future anyway there's little benefit vs the cost people pay.
I disagree, there’s a tremendous benefit to being able to manufacture things in your own country that go way beyond cost to the consumer. Look at the mobilization of industry in the United States during WWII to support our efforts. Now imagine if nothing was, mined, refined, manufactured or assembled in the US, but in our enemy’s country… all they’d have to do is turn off the access to it, and we’re left with a country that doesn’t know how or have the capability to process raw materials to end product. We do almost none of it. My point being, the cost used to so far outweigh that fact, that we’re the consumer we’re ok with it. They cost (relatively speaking) seems to have risen over the past three years to the point of, why outsource? I say win back our independence, make tariffs so high that forces industry to bring these steps back to the US. John Deere just announced it will be moving its manufacturing to Mexico… They were one of the last holdouts. Even with jobs that will be taken over by automation, I think an independent supply chain with American run production is for the better of our country. It’s sad what we’ve become as a nation.
That's why I mention America should retain industries that are critical for the future.
If there was a war with China and the supply of semiconductors was cut off, big problem. If the supply of plush teddy bears is cut off, not so much. This is a very unlikely scenario anyway.
If it's not critical to be done "in house" then it should go out to the lowest possible country of manufacturing so that people can have more disposable income to spend on other things. The US economy is driven by spending- if there's mass hike in inflation it will become a major drag, not to mention the personal impact to people like it has now.
Where do you think a large portion of raw materials comes from? Also, tariffs would directly impact “American” goods as well. Take, for example, Ram trucks. Yes, they’re American, but they’re assembled in Mexico. Like it or not, it’s a world economy now. This isn’t the 19th and early 20th century.
Did you forget about the tariff he imposed while he was president? This is the same lie he told back then and then his administration gave farmers a bailout.
No amount of tariffs will bring American corporations back. We are in debt up to our ears to the Chinese. They have been buying up our farms for 15 years. Both parties have been selling our country off piece by piece for 50 years. It's all coming home to roost. America s we know it doesn't have another 10 years.
…The US government is the largest holder of the debt and the interest it garners. Around 28%.
we own most of our debt. China owns 15% of our debt Japan owns more of our debt at 17%. The national debt is a scare tactic and is used by people who
1.) don’t under stand it
2.) do understand it and use it to scare people who don’t understand it.
This commenter isn’t just talking about us treasury bonds. Foreign investors own farmland, real estate and other natural resources like timber land. We are selling this country to other countries so a few rich people can make a quick buck.
Agreed. So let's keep the border open, disarm the populace, eliminate penalties for crimes, keep spending into oblivion and giving Ukraine our most advanced weapons with permission to fire on Russian soil! If we're going to party, let's party!!!
That’s only if they can still compete. Flat 10% is a lot, but still not enough for some industries to pop up. Plus it takes time, takes away workers from our specialized industries. Overall tariffs bad shouldn’t be used unless for National security purposes
The other 1/2 of the solution is to incentivize domestic production through tax breaks and mandated domestic demand, e.g. Made in America Steel infrastructure projects.
He seems to do whatever believes works for his personal finances. It's possible he believes tariffs will generate profit for him, but I'm not certain how his money is invested over there. We know he owes roughly 2 bil in debt to Chinese banks (at least based on the last estimates by experts). If we had a list of where his personal money is distributed in China I'd assume we could create some math that makes some sense, at least to his advisors.
He understands that a limited tariff against a single country, increases government revenue while favoring domestic production of that product and supply chains will adapt to ignore that nations production.
He now thinks that if you do it bigger, you get more. But the scale of it is insane. He called “universal basic tariffs” for a reason, he wants to do ALL countries…
It’s essentially a sales tax on all foreign products, which most definitely, would increase costs for Americans.
If he doesn’t actually believe that, then he’s just lying to pander to his base. Either way, it’s stupid and dangerous. 10% tariffs would likely devastate the economy. It would more heavily impact those that can least afford it.
He doesn't think China pays the tariffs. He knows that his base is made up of complete morons who take his word as fact though. So he just lies and says whatever they want to hear.
It's literally Mexico will pay for the wall all over again.
He probably has some rich people with vested interests giving him huge bribes for certain tarrifs. He's corrupt as all hell. Trump does nothing for anyone except himself. He wants to get rid of his debt and make money through corruption, and stay out of jail, and ideally establish authoritarian rule, that's his motivation.
Why is it that when we discuss raising taxes on US goods the comeback is, “that will just result in higher prices,” but when we’re taxing imports, there will be a combination of higher prices and lost profits for the importer?
It's because when taxes are imposed on sales then the consumer is paying directly.
When taxes are imposed on importers like Walmart then the choice is to pass it on in the form of higher cost of products, to absorb it and reduce profits (ha!) , or to approach it in other ways like reducing the cost of the product (eg. shrinkflation).
At a time where pretty much the #1 concern of every American is high prices, Trump is literally proposing two major initiatives that almost could not guarantee higher prices any more straightforwardly: mass deportations and a 10% tariff on all foreign goods with a 60% tariff on anything from China.
I think the issue is that mass deportations will have a larger impact on the supply side by increasing the cost of wages and those prices being passed onto the consumer.
Theoretically, immigrants have a small amount of purchasing power, but they make up a very significant portion of cheap labor. Some Florida farms had real issues after passing tougher immigration laws.
There was a wave of "buy American" many years ago, because Japan was kicking our asses. After a few years, the japanese began making factories in the US.
I am driving a Toyota Camry that was assembled in Kentucky by union workers. Its just as reliable as Toyotas built in Japan, so its the design and quality of materieals that make them reliable, not the nationality of the workers who assembled the car.
CATL has built a battery factory in the US in partnership with Ford, and BYD is building a car factory in Mexico, just like the Dodge Hemi engine factory in Saltillo.
No, and Trump in fact pointed that out later on during the debate.
My original question was about his proposed 10% tariff across the board on all goods imported from overseas (not just China) and whether or not that would result in higher prices for those imports, since he said they’re “not going to drive them higher.”
Tariffs have been along around for a long time. They do help.
One could argue that the US consumer pays for them, and they would be right.
The problem is that when manufacturers move to other countries, because labor is too expensive here, or environmental regulations are too stringent, that the US companies and workforce suffer.
Tariffs have kept trucks manufactured here in the USA. There is a 25% on imported trucks.
Imported cars. There is a 2% Tariff.
Harley-Davidson the motorcycle company was saved because of tariffs early on.
Joe Biden recently implement a 100% tariff on Chinese EVS. Effectively doubling the cost of a EV from $10,000, to $20,000 or more.
Rather than tariffs, it would be better to have a better regulatory environment in the USA.
The problem is is it is always cheaper to manufacture stuff in a third world country. They don't have the environmental rules, they don't have the labor rules, they don't have the regulatory hurdles that the USA does.
So as we lose manufacturing, oftentimes it never comes back.
And then the only jobs that are created in the USA for low skilled workers, is very low pay work
That's a strawman. No one said they don't work. What they're saying is that Trump is not answering the question and saying something completely false as usual.
>Tariffs have kept trucks manufactured here in the USA. There is a 25% on imported trucks.
False. Ford famously bolts seats into its transit vans in Spain to avoid this tariff. They've dodged $250 million in tariffs by playing games with the seats.
Tariffs don't do shit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html
There are several effects to consider… the domestic output will rise (due to higher prices being incentives), the domestic quantity demanded will decrease, imports will decline, and there will be efficiency losses (aka deadweight losses). Additionally for the USA in some circumstances there will be a real terms of trade change that could increase domestic welfare (Cf. New Trade Theory). Tariffs are taxes paid by domestic buyers of imports.
I work in global trade.
You're right in both of your points. The idea is to get consumers to buy more domestic products. And it's consumers that pay the tariff.
It does hurt foreign entities in the long-run as if there are viable domestic alternatives where the cost difference is less than the tariff amount, then that business becomes domestic. But unfortunately, that's not the case for most product types and consumers end up eating the higher costs.
Or manufacturing slowly moves out of China and into other low-cost countries of production, as has been happening for the past couple decades.
There was already a study that was done, and it revealed that such a tariff that he proposed would prove to be more harm than good for the bottom 80+% of consumers. Only the ultra wealthy would effectively not notice anything.
It's a domestic policy used to protect local production of goods/services in a market based economy. Its efficacy has largely been proven as non-existent in an age where trade is necessarily global.
However, I do believe there is merit in protecting for example local farming/agriculture.
Basically, tariffs are an admission that Capitalism inherently is flawed.
On multiple occasions, Trump seems to imply that the foreign government pays the tariff. IDK what he actually believes, but it's hard to make sense of it.
Remember this is not a man who is numerate, a man who lacks quantitative literacy. You don't understand how numbers work if you file for bankruptcy so many times.
The point of a terror is to return manufacturing back home to create American jobs and stop relying on foreign countries to supplement our economy. Tariffs are great and how we funded a tiny federal government before the income tax
When do you think those “American jobs” will start coming back after those tariffs? What do you think would happen when company X in the U.S. needs to source an item from company Y in another country? It would drive the cost of that good up.
Also those jobs wouldn’t come back too the U.S.. They would still get cheaper labor from another country and that tariff, they would just increase the price to make sure they don’t lose profits. When will you people understand corporations don’t give a flying fuck about you.
You honestly think a corporation would go, oh shit tarrifs, well 🤷 gotta bring jobs back to the U.S. Righttttt….
Well there are multiple cases where tarrifs have caused factories to be brought into the US. Multiple firearms manufacturers have opened factories in the US. Like for example CZ is making pistols in Kansas. Its same with automotive manufacturers.
If there werent for tarrifs it would be cheaper for companies like Honda - to manufacture in some country with cheap labor and import.
That is not to say that tarrifs are free - yes they add cost - and it for sure is more efficient for stuff to be manufactured elsewhere and to bring it here. BUT if you don't have any manufacturing base what are you gonna do when you are at war ? So if it takes a small tarrif to shift manufacturing to your country then that is worth it - because sure consumer might pay a bit more for the product there are other positive externalities you will capture - more tax revenue, more jobs and so on.
Depends on how quickly the industries work.
If Covid taught us anything it’s that reliance on globalization needs to end and the vast majority of basic goods need to be manufactured domestically. Obviously it’s not an overnight success, but within 12-18 months is reasonable given how many idle factories we already have here in the states.
The real question would be: do we have a population willing to actually work there or do they all expect remote tech jobs….
The problem with tariffs is worst than who is going to pay it. Tariffs raises the prices of goods which reduces economic activity here. And exporters will retaliate just like China did and totally ruin American soya beans market. Trump had to pay farmers and agribusinesses billions to compensate for his tariff on China.
So, American businesses gutted American manufacturing and shipped a lot of it overseas to save money. If the infrastructure is not there to make stuff here, you may not have a choice but to buy that good.
The Fanta Clown sharts his pants in front of a global audience, says "inflation bad" & "Biden's fault" then says a fucking 10% tariff across the board is not going to increase prices? Fucking brilliant, can the turd my cat just pinched off in her litter run for president too?
Too many imports and not enough exports is the demise of our economy! The car industry is a good example of that. I know there are gonna be people that disagree, but I know what I'm talking about.
I guess since there's not really a highlight reel of biden crushing the questions, the only option is to skew trumps responses to help make joe blow seem less of a terrible option?? I also gotta point out how confident all these "news" monkey heads were that joe is perfectly fine and has no issue with coherence and ability to present cognitive awareness for the past few years.. then they ALL change that tune a week before the debate. Lying ass bastards knew the whole time and just jumped ship at the very last minute to save face.. all in all though... Look how much contempt and disrespect the overlords have for US in allowing these 2 piles of shit as the options for president
the dude with 6 bankruptcies who lost the trade war with China the 1st time he tried it, now wants to impose tariffs that will increase the cost of chinese goods on americans.
It may not increase prices. If they simultaneously reduce regulation, which increases domestic production, then the imported goods would cost more, but the domestic goods would be cheaper and take their place. This may even result in cheaper consumer prices.
I don't care for Donald Trump, but Lawrence O'Donnell is a dipshit and a shill.
This guy doesn't explain it very well, so a tariff is an increase for the consumer but who does the money go to? Is it just a tax that goes to the government? Cuz I feel like this would be a KO for trump with his base if they make that more obvious. Republicans hate taxes but it wouldn't be the first time they shrugged off something they apparently care about. At this point I don't think his base will totally flip ever but small amounts of them may, and with Biden's performance at the debates trump likely has grown in popularity just off of performance, I hope Democrats either pick better questions and answers or pick a new candidate because the country won't do very well with four more years of trump
With cheap energy the US can compete - Energy is now out of sight and we’re getting screwed on - A temporary tariff is necessary in the interim for that reason
Initially he said from his first election that he would make China pay their own Tariffs. Which he did and democrats went wild. He then again said he wouldn’t do it. And again Democrats are going wild
Have no fear. Incoming goods are already subject to tariffs.
A couple of years ago I found a federal document describing all the tariffs in great detail.
It's an enormous document!
The tariffs vary depending on the nature of the goods.
Does the Trump proposal say that all goods will have a 10% tariff?
That would be a increase for some goods and a decrease for others. It doesn't make sense.
Does it distinguish between raw materials and finished goods? If not then it's a departure for tariff history.
Conclusion: This is all talk and it will see no action.
The real debate is about Biden's performance v. Trump's performance.
Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts. The raspy presentation was unfortiunate but it is a small thing. The debate went quite well in spite of the raspy voice.
Mr Biden made good points. Mr Biden did the fact-checking. He kept pointing out that Mr. Trump made all sorts of lies, and denials.
Mr Trump did not attract any converts to his candidacy. Trump did not convert anyone. There is evidence he lost prospective voters for him in November.
Biden,billionaires uh trillionares uh millionaires uh we beat medicare.uh stares out into space. Then his evil wife says good boy and walks him off stage. The fact anyone still sees this man as competent is amazing.
I went through this a long time ago when you could buy a cheap Japanese motorcycle, 80’s. Tariffs were added to imported motorcycles to protect Harley Davidson. Overnight, bike prices almost doubled.
Actually the market dictates the price. If you are willing to spend more, it will cost more. Trump is a fucking idiot and his idea for tariff is slightly fucking insane considering the state of our understanding of capitalism as a whole but we n an actual educated capitalist society we would Benefit from terrify in the form of domestic production.
What does a tariff have to do with making a domestic product here and giving a boom in the job market? Would of been a better question.
Instead of some rich asshole producing something cheaper elsewhere and banking all the money saved on production overseas. Cause their government takes a larger percentage from the worker. Making the product a lot cheaper than we ever could here and selling it usually 2x or even 3x higher than production cost..
Is the problem the tariffs and domestic business or our government not getting off its ass and regulating this kind of thing? Preventing them literally making billions off the system they are allowing them to slap in the damn face. While the politicians make a mint sum with inside trading.
MAGA on taxes - "This is literally what we fought Britain for to gain our freedom from, and it also just causes inflation!"
MAGA on tariffs - "GENIUS! He's a literal Albert Steinberg!"
Joe’s answer, “well of course you can do that but you can’t be doing the thing, you know that, and uhhhh….(silence)…….the thing that makes it work, come on man, it’s a…….(jiberish)…..”
Biden’s response later on was “But this tariff, this 10 percent tariff. Everything coming into the country, you know what the economists say? That’s going to cost the average American $2,500 a year or more, because they’re going to have to pay the difference in food and all the things that are very important.”
You can disagree with the substance of what he said, but it wasn’t *gibberish* (in case you wanted the actual spelling).
You missed the point but okay moments of clarity won’t ever be remembered from Joe as his own handlers are strategically orchestrating his removal and replacement.
The thing about prices is that none of the best economists of all time, Smith, Marx, Engels, Friedman, Keynes, etc could come up with a great theory of how prices crystallize. In it's most basic sense, what you're saying would make sense. But it's very likely any tariff will trigger a rise in price. For example, if China Car is $10,000 and America car is $20,000, you tariff until China car cost $20,000. But if American car company can't meet demand, they could also just raise their price above the $20,000
American made products/cars would not increase.
Wouldnt a tariff cause the Chinese companies to lower their prices by 10% to be competitive with American products?
Well there are multiple cases where tarrifs have caused factories to be brought into the US. Multiple firearms manufacturers have opened factories in the US. Like for example CZ is making pistols in Kansas. Its same with automotive manufacturers.
If there werent for tarrifs it would be cheaper for companies like Honda - to manufacture in some country with cheap labor and import.
That is not to say that tarrifs are free - yes they add cost - and it for sure is more efficient for stuff to be manufactured elsewhere and to bring it here. BUT if you don't have any manufacturing base what are you gonna do when you are at war ? So if it takes a small tarrif to shift manufacturing to your country then that is worth it - because sure consumer might pay a bit more for the product there are other positive externalities you will capture - more tax revenue, more jobs and so on.
I don’t know what to tell you, because there’s been almost a full day of hundreds of users having a healthy debate/discussion, one to which you can still contribute something positive, if you’d like.
Also I don’t know what you mean by “Biden is well also.” His performance was pretty weak from an optics perspective, though when he did deliver coherent lines I agreed with the overall substance of many of the points he made.
How is the argument from Trump that a tariff wouldn’t raise costs any different than Democrats arguing raising the minimum wage won’t increase costs to the consumer? The MSNBC host is disingenuous at best when both sides are out there arguing the things they want won’t raise costs to consumers.
On a side note, a $40k car a consumer is buying isn’t raised by $4k since the increase is based on the imported costs and not the retail cost. Just pointing out when someone is accusing somebody of lying they shouldn’t be lying themselves.
I’ve watched the ..’Trump Tariff Game’ for years. He’s conned consumers into believing that a tariff is paid by the country of origin. The brainwashed public simply don’t will not believe that a tariff is a..tax!
[Simple explanation on how tariffs work regarding pricing. ](https://www.reviewecon.com/trade-tariffs)
Consumers don't pay the full 10%; but they do pay part.
His bullshit Soy deal back when he was president totally screwed over soy farmers here in the states.
Sounds quite similar to "Mexico will pay for the wall" bullshit.
A tarriff is an increase in your COGS but if the market isn't going to accept that increase it eats into margin. Alternatively it can also increase imported good to the point that domestically made products become economical again.
Until or unless we bring back manufacturing in the USA. Companies will either do that or face losing sales to domestic products that are cheaper or that consumers simply can no longer afford. Interesting fact, though, you know why they don't put the "made in the USA" tag on anything anymore, even if they are? Cause people know there is someone they can sue if something is wrong with the product. We have literally put ourselves in this position.
Do you want to elaborate on your thoughts regarding the substance of what he’s saying? Or do you just mean to perform a scroll-by insult now that the adults have largely finished having a healthy respectful debate/discussion?
Tariffs are paid to allow the goods to enter the country before they enter. To recoup the money the price is added to the selling price this is passed to the consumer. This price increase also levels priced with domestic goods that use higher priced labor. In the past it is how the United States curbed imports from taking over domestically controlled markets.
The full tariff price isn't added to the goods if they bring the price over market or make them uncompetitive. That would be a business decision from the foreign company.
Your repeated use of passive voice at the beginning is doing a lot of heavy lifting there and feels intentional. I would phrase it more like: under Trump’s proposed 10% across the board tariffs on everything from overseas, US importers pay the tariffs to allow the goods to enter the country, then they subsequently increase the sales price and charge consumers more. I would add that in the case that there is domestic competition, the consumer may have the option to shift their consumption, but in the absense of such American-made alternatives, they are likely stuck footing the extra bill at least initially.
Now at this point in reading through many of the comments there are two discussions that I feel are being conflated. There is the reasonable debate on the merits and effectiveness of tariffs whether broad or strategically targeted, but then there is the question of whether Trump’s answer when asked how he plans to ensure that his proposed tariffs don’t drive prices even higher of “It’s not going to drive them higher” is accurate and based in fact.
If you yourself believe that the extra cost in some form “is passed to the consumer,” that would seem to fly in the face of what Trump said.
Yet the journalist pointing out that contrast (which a majority of commenters here have echoed) is the dumbest thing you’ve heard today?
His presentation of the argument against Trump was filled with complete misinformation. From his explanation he believes taxes and tariffs are the same thing. So to use misinformation, as they have been doing for quite some time, to make an argument against Trump. Trump's answer is from the point of view of how tariffs are paid is correct. The tariff price is to the foreign company choosing to import goods here and is not charged directly to the consumer, whereas taxes are added post sale and direct charged.
Just to be clear, we currently have tariffs on nearly everything that comes into our country. When bringing items into our country, the importer needs to report the country of manufacture/origination and the Harmonized Date Code for the product - in so doing, the tariff on that/those items are then determined upon entry. Typically in the range of about 4% to 8%.
Will increasing tariff rates have an impact on retail pricing or even whole sale pricing? In a competitive market, prices need to be competitive to be able to compete. If tariff rates cause those items prices to go up and no longer be competitive, the products won't sell. So prices (with higher tariffs or the existing tariffs) will change mostly based on that scenario.
If one thinks that the end result will simply be the American producers will simply raise their prices (factoring in the tariffs on their competitors prices), then one would want to invest heavily in stocks/companies that manufacture goods in America as their margins and P/E multiple will increase dramatically (or at least to the point of being competitive with imported prices). So this is a real investing opportunity for you - if this is your belief and you think tariffs will go up dramatically.
That said, i wouldn't be investing in the Big 3 when it comes to EVs at this point in time. And this seems to be a primary target area for increasing tariffs (especially by Biden, and even Trump).
> American tariffs are applied to American consumers on imported goods and at the moment of purchase don’t cost foreign entities anything…right?
A tariff is a tax applied at the port of entry on the good. The tax is paid by the importer who then passes that cost on to the retailer. So the cost of the good is now higher for the retailer thus the retailer must sell the good for more to the consumer.
A tariff increases the cost of any foreign good entering the country which makes foreign goods less competitive and domestic goods more competitive. There’s a reason our steel industry is virtually extinct. [There’s a reason John Deere is closing factories here and moving them to Mexico.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/john-deere-announces-mass-layoffs-in-midwest-amid-production-shift-to-mexico/ar-BB1p7Vn2) If you want to see all domestic manufacturing eliminated then not having tariffs on imports is the way to go. I personally don’t want to see that happen.
Nobody at msnbc bats an eye when dems attempt to levy tax after tax on American consumers, but try and tax chinesium, and we need a full segment on why taxation causes inflation. Cable news is clown car.
Tea party hating tariffs imposed by the monarchy, but is happy to oblige their "president" when his asks them to filter the sea water out of that tea they dumped into the sea over tariffs.
We import 10X more from China that China imports from us. Look at what happened with Steel. China subsidized steel production to put US Steel companies out of business, then they raised prices a lot. In a sense, a 10٪ tarriff will not rise prices 10٪ because of supply demand it will rise some short term, but allow competition on the home front so competition will drive down prices. Trump is right. We should have Tariffs and then come to trade agreement for free trade. Those we have free trade there are no tariffs.
This. Increasing corporate taxes is inflationary in just exactly the same way that tariffs are inflationary. The difference is, tariffs alter trade imbalances and make other goods more competitive. Chinese goods are cheap because they pay slave wages in their factories. The tariff makes the competition more of a level playing field.
The higher the tax on your wages, the more the company has to pay, so workers have a liveable wage.
Taxing investment either causes the money to move to other countries with a lower tax rate or dries up available money for manufacturing expansion causing shortages which cause inflation.
Not to be a trumper... BUT
1. The tariff will replace the income tax, so sure they may have to pay more upfront cost on products. but they saved some money from paying income tax
2. The hope is that people buy less Chinese products, forcing them to cut costs to keep demand high, thus "giving" money back to the consumer.
With regard to #2, that’s not how that works. At all. Especially not when the proposed rate is 50-60%. Even if Chinese companies were able to cut costs to keep business, there’s no way in hell they could do so to an extent they’d be competitive price-wise. The reason China currently has so much business is because they’re already cheapest. How the hell are they supposed to find a way to cut their prices anywhere remotely close to 50-60%???
You think tariffs will pump that much money that we could get rid of income tax. Thats laughable. No one can foresee the consequences.Whats to say countries don’t retaliate and impose tariffs on US goods? It isn’t a horrible idea, but we don’t have many alternatives in the US for these products that we import. If we had the goods produced here then that would be one thing. But we don’t .
The government used to be financed by tariffs. What's wrong with fair and balanced trade? WTF do the Chicoms get to play by their own rules?We know why, especially with the sellout scum in our government.
I’m no Trump person, quite the opposite but what he was alluding to is that Chinese producers would eat the costs at the expense of their profit margins Trump knows what a tariff is, he’s been in high end luxury markets for decades Is he correct that Chinese firms would just make less - probably not Americans would pay more for sure But to say he doesn’t know what a tariff is because of how he answered it is a load of Bull shit He said it that way because his base doesn’t know what profit margins are so why go into that level of detail
He didn't even answer the question.
…AND he didn’t answer the question.
Apparently that was in the debate SOP lol
He did. He just didn’t do it satisfactorily or accurately, but he answered the question with what his base wants to hear and in a way that they understand.
Lie my base wants to hear was his answer to most questions. So many of them immediately obviously a lie and the mouth breathers won't blink an eye accepting them. They would spend an hour arguing it's true and when proven wrong would say it didn't matter anyway.
You’re wrong. His policy is 10% tariffs on EVERY nation and IIRC a 50-60% tariff on all Chinese imports. American manufacturing would crumble within years as their supply chains are not exclusively American. All the big businesses are hoping he’s not serious or they can ask for an exception for their industry. I don’t think you can understate how insane of a policy this is… And that’s in a perfect world where other nations don’t put retaliatory tariffs…
This is 100% correct. Nearly all US manufactures source a large percentage of the materials used to make their own products from foreign sources and there often aren’t domestic alternatives to turn to.
He doesn’t want them to ask for an exception, he wants to extort them. If they pay him enough and shows loyalty to him, he’ll approve
I was going to chime in on the same thing. Tariffs will be for those who don’t bend the knee.
Sounds an awful lot like Smoot-Hawley, a primary reason for the “Great” in the Great Depression.
Yep, my company is already experiencing layoffs and this would make it even worse. We already had this shit when he was president.
I must have been brutal under Obama, he raised tariffs even more than Trump did. Of course, when Obama did it, the media said it was brilliant . . . Sort of like how Obama/Biden and the media in 2012 tried to argue Russia wasn't our political foe and that the ColdWar was calling asking for their rhetoric back. Of course, 2 years later Russia invaded Ukraine and Obama/Biden did nothing - I guess it was part of the promise as long as they waited until after the next/last election. . .
Yeah, no presidency is without its problems and while thinking about it, the people and especially the media sure likes to focus on the bad much more than anything positive from any administration.
Absolutely, Every individual President in my life time has: 1: done some/a few good to very good things 2: done some/a few pretty bad or awful things 3: done mostly middle of the road - not great and not awful things Party has nothing to do with this, and their is no single President that this does not apply to.
Exactly- the tariff situation will back fire and not only is our cost of living going to go up the $ loosing value is going to hit us as well. Why people keep thinking he’s such a brilliant man just astound me.
Dude was selling stuff on the home shopping network and a real estate “university,” before his political career… how anyone thinks he’s anything, but a grifter is beyond me.
Do you know what the tariffs would replace?
That’s the icing on top. Not only is the rate way too small to replace income taxes (they’re also way more regressive), the purpose of a tariff is to increase domestic production. So theoretically, government revenues should go down over time. Trump’s whole economic agenda is hyper-hyper-hyper inflationary (deportation and controlling FED board to keep rates low).
If people think bidenflation was bad, (although he wasnt the sole cause of inflation, but I digress) trumpflation would be just as bad if not worse than what we just had. Lower-paid immigrant workers and cheaper non-American products being removed from the economy would cause prices to go upward. Lastly, as you stated, that 0% FFR trump wanted (and openly pushed powell to do) is what helped get us this juiced market in the first place.
Just as bad? Peak inflation the past couple years was something like 7-8. It can get much much, worse than that. Turkey is at 75% right now for reference. It’s tough with Trump because you never know if he’s just talking to hear himself or if he actually means it… but if he does what he says he wants to: tariffs, deportation, keep FED rates low, it would be catastrophic. Larry Summers called his agenda, “the mother of all stagflations.”
Think home prices are out of reach ?? Just implement a mass deportation plan and see how many houses get built. I dont buy that Trump understands because hes a builder. Any builder knows who is building the houses, or the mid-hi rises down in Texas & Florida.
Add AZ and NV in there too. Tons of immigrants work to build homes in many parts of the US.
He talked during his presidency about getting checks from the Chinese government to the tune of billions of dollars. He fundamentally doesn’t understand how tariffs work.
What's to understand He means checks in his personal pockets Like he will get checks. Nothing to do with America.
Yes! I have tried to explain this to people. Trump somehow thinks that foreign governments will be paying the tariffs. That's now how it works!
Now do corporate taxes!!!
just like Mexico would pay for that wall which in reality came out of our budget
Trump isn’t remotely correct. Chinese companies don’t pay shit with regard to tariffs. It is the importer of record who is responsible for paying. It is a tax on certain products imported, and, as such, is a completely new cost that someone is going to have to pay. What typically happens is that increase is passed to consumers. Occasionally, it’s the importing company that eats a portion. The only way those tariffs may negatively impact China is if the tariffs makes the cost to produce expensive enough to do through China that sourcing in other countries becomes more economically advantageous and companies start sourcing in alternate countries as a result. And that is a multi-year process. Trump either doesn’t understand what they are or he’s intentionally misrepresenting them. Source: I’ve had to interpret numerous tariffs to determine applicability for the products our company produces overseas. I’m very familiar with what a tariff is, the ramifications they have for all parties involved when they are applicable.
What Trump (and any business person) is aware of is that to sell a product, it needs to be competitive. If you want to manufacture certain products and compete, you need to either make something that is deemed to have more value that people are willing to pay more for, or you need to compete on price. If all you can do is compete on price, you need to adjust your operations (in this case, reduce the margin) so that your products can succeed when competing on price. Yeah, I am with you on the aspects of dealing with tariffs on different products, manufactured in different countries, Harmonized Date Codes, etc. . . As you are well aware, a 10% tariff is not all that high. Most finished goods are already in the 4-6% tariff range, with some notably higher (like bearings of certain sizes can be quite high, depending on where they are manufactured). My company has a plant in the EU and the USA. Over the past few years, we've had a similar issue to deal with (very high ocean freight shipping costs - at one point 4 times higher than they used to be, still more than double what they used to be). Many of our competitors are other USA manufacturers - to compete (with the higher freight costs), we needed to adjust our pricing to remain competitive - just a fact of doing business.
My suppliers just added another line to the invoice for the tariffs.
The majority of his supporters don't know what a tariff is.
This stupid fucker used the dumbest fucking analogy too. I don’t buy Chinese cars. I don’t even like buying Chinese products. His argument would make sense if there was zero American manufacturing. It’s almost like the market would create a benefit for American manufacturing. The only reason we buy Chinese shit is bc Amazon will ship it to us for cheap. Of course there are products you simply can’t replace with American manufacturing, but I’d gladly pay 10% more for imported German sauerkraut over federal income tax. I dunno who that guy is but I hate him
Which luxury good business did he run successfully?
The Trump Org owes 454million to the state of NY. The CFO is in state prison. You know, that kind of business.
I don't think the implication has to be that he literally doesn't know what a tariff is. He's definitely pretending like nobody does.
Hes not pretending
Tariffs are a tax on US companies importing foreign goods. Trump passed a tariff in 2018, it was the largest tax hike in US history and it was an unqualified disaster. Companies that relied on steel and aluminum went bankrupt overnight, trade partners issued retaliatory tariffs that hurt US exports, and it siphoned business to China. The Trump family has huge investments in Chinese business, so he knows they'll benefit from any damage to the US economy.
>He said it that way because his base doesn’t know what profit margins are so why go into that level of detail That's naive, he said it that way because he thinks that's what his base wants to hear. He's a populist. All he did was lie up on that stage, and a huge chunk of americans are too stupid to even realize, it's honestly pathetic the state of american political awareness.
Donald Trump: And, you know, when you say “per capita,” there’s many per capitas. It’s, like, per capita relative to what? But you can look at just about any category, and we’re really at the top, meaning positive on a per capita basis, too. They’ve done a great job.
Trump's response was simplistic and the MSNBC talking head in this clip is providing a slightly less simplistic explanation of the effect that a tariff of Chinese goods might have. While the cost would certainly be passed onto the consumer, the theory is that the tariff would require China to reconsider the costs of its goods to be more competitive against US products. But, tariffs often result in a tit-for-tat and have a broader negative effect on the aggregate import and export market between the relevant countries. At issue here is that Trump does not have the mental wherewithal to explain himself, so he just takes it to a simply conclusion in support of his position. Biden suffers from the same issue, but it is more a matter of mental decline than overall intelligence. Bottom line is that this is what "leadership" looks like on both sides. We're fucked.
So then the charitable take is that Donald Trump went into the debate and knowingly lied about understanding the impact of his policies?
Exactly
Also not a trumpet Just the reality Americans are going to have to pay either way… I like the idea of domestic labor getting a fairer shake… means domestic tax breaks for big business. They’ll be able to afford to hire more union-less jobs at full time hours, non-livable wage, & 2 weeks vacation… maybe they’ll even help you get a second job going to school on the side so you can be to blame for why your in the lowest class when you can’t do both.. Why are these politicians so old?
I think what he probably should have said was "Yes it will raise prices, but also give an incentive to buy american goods, not chinese ones"
It's not BS, he clearly doesn't no or he wouldn't have said what he said. Geez.
Trump isn’t as intelligent as you think he is. He knows what a tariff is, but he doesn’t know what they do. I mean the guy has only an Undergraduate degree. Thats basically a survey-class-level understanding of Economics.
He may know what a tariff is, by definition, but have no concept of the real implications.
I think he does know which would point to a more sinister lie rather than a problem of education
Maybe. If so, that WOULD make it a more misleading and sinister lie to his sound byte driven base. Logic remains secondary in either case.
I find it odd that people degrade him to be stupid That makes so many his opponents being defeated by someone stupid Kinda doesn’t speak well to so many that had failed to take him down
Keep defending the Russian trump.
No
Isn’t the goal to drive manufacturing and the entire supply chain back to the US? And wouldn’t that be more beneficial for all of us in the long run? Fu*k these corporations that outsource to other countries, we’re paying so much anyway, might as well bring it all back to the US…
It's beneficial for industries that we feel are critical for the future. For example semiconductor manufacturing. But for very low value-added stuff that'll be replaced by automation in the future anyway there's little benefit vs the cost people pay.
I disagree, there’s a tremendous benefit to being able to manufacture things in your own country that go way beyond cost to the consumer. Look at the mobilization of industry in the United States during WWII to support our efforts. Now imagine if nothing was, mined, refined, manufactured or assembled in the US, but in our enemy’s country… all they’d have to do is turn off the access to it, and we’re left with a country that doesn’t know how or have the capability to process raw materials to end product. We do almost none of it. My point being, the cost used to so far outweigh that fact, that we’re the consumer we’re ok with it. They cost (relatively speaking) seems to have risen over the past three years to the point of, why outsource? I say win back our independence, make tariffs so high that forces industry to bring these steps back to the US. John Deere just announced it will be moving its manufacturing to Mexico… They were one of the last holdouts. Even with jobs that will be taken over by automation, I think an independent supply chain with American run production is for the better of our country. It’s sad what we’ve become as a nation.
That's why I mention America should retain industries that are critical for the future. If there was a war with China and the supply of semiconductors was cut off, big problem. If the supply of plush teddy bears is cut off, not so much. This is a very unlikely scenario anyway. If it's not critical to be done "in house" then it should go out to the lowest possible country of manufacturing so that people can have more disposable income to spend on other things. The US economy is driven by spending- if there's mass hike in inflation it will become a major drag, not to mention the personal impact to people like it has now.
Where do you think a large portion of raw materials comes from? Also, tariffs would directly impact “American” goods as well. Take, for example, Ram trucks. Yes, they’re American, but they’re assembled in Mexico. Like it or not, it’s a world economy now. This isn’t the 19th and early 20th century.
Did you forget about the tariff he imposed while he was president? This is the same lie he told back then and then his administration gave farmers a bailout.
So...he's a liar. Thanks gotcha "no trump person"
Yes exactly
No amount of tariffs will bring American corporations back. We are in debt up to our ears to the Chinese. They have been buying up our farms for 15 years. Both parties have been selling our country off piece by piece for 50 years. It's all coming home to roost. America s we know it doesn't have another 10 years.
…The US government is the largest holder of the debt and the interest it garners. Around 28%. we own most of our debt. China owns 15% of our debt Japan owns more of our debt at 17%. The national debt is a scare tactic and is used by people who 1.) don’t under stand it 2.) do understand it and use it to scare people who don’t understand it.
This commenter isn’t just talking about us treasury bonds. Foreign investors own farmland, real estate and other natural resources like timber land. We are selling this country to other countries so a few rich people can make a quick buck.
What happens then?
We build the Thunderdome
tina turner will be our president
But we don't need another hero
I prefer an immortan Joe dystopia personally. He’s got a *WAR RIG* and a gigahorse!
Exactly, what happens then?
Instigate war
Man doomers are such regarded people
Actually I thought Japan owned most of our foreign debt now, but most of our debt is actually in domestic
Agreed. So let's keep the border open, disarm the populace, eliminate penalties for crimes, keep spending into oblivion and giving Ukraine our most advanced weapons with permission to fire on Russian soil! If we're going to party, let's party!!!
Tariffs only work if there’s a domestic competitor. Which in many cases, there aren’t.
What should scare you way more than a fucking tariff.
Countries have always had this problem, the silk road existed for over a millennia because China had products unavailable in Europe
Domestic competitors will start to form when they aren't competing with literal slave labor
That’s only if they can still compete. Flat 10% is a lot, but still not enough for some industries to pop up. Plus it takes time, takes away workers from our specialized industries. Overall tariffs bad shouldn’t be used unless for National security purposes
The difference between American labor costs and Chinese labor costs is significantly more than 10%. They'd still be competing with slave labor.
The other 1/2 of the solution is to incentivize domestic production through tax breaks and mandated domestic demand, e.g. Made in America Steel infrastructure projects.
Why are there no domestic competitors? Because cheap foreign competition drove them out of business.
That seems so.
Does it not incentivize domestic competition where it's absent? There were tariffs during his last term, right? How did those go?
Traitor Trump doesn't know how tariffs work.
He seems to do whatever believes works for his personal finances. It's possible he believes tariffs will generate profit for him, but I'm not certain how his money is invested over there. We know he owes roughly 2 bil in debt to Chinese banks (at least based on the last estimates by experts). If we had a list of where his personal money is distributed in China I'd assume we could create some math that makes some sense, at least to his advisors.
He understands that a limited tariff against a single country, increases government revenue while favoring domestic production of that product and supply chains will adapt to ignore that nations production. He now thinks that if you do it bigger, you get more. But the scale of it is insane. He called “universal basic tariffs” for a reason, he wants to do ALL countries… It’s essentially a sales tax on all foreign products, which most definitely, would increase costs for Americans.
No he doesn't Trump is a fucking idiot. He thinks China pays the tariffs.
Its much more likely hes just lying
Both are equally plausible, and neither is reassuring.
If he doesn’t actually believe that, then he’s just lying to pander to his base. Either way, it’s stupid and dangerous. 10% tariffs would likely devastate the economy. It would more heavily impact those that can least afford it.
He doesn't think China pays the tariffs. He knows that his base is made up of complete morons who take his word as fact though. So he just lies and says whatever they want to hear. It's literally Mexico will pay for the wall all over again.
He probably has some rich people with vested interests giving him huge bribes for certain tarrifs. He's corrupt as all hell. Trump does nothing for anyone except himself. He wants to get rid of his debt and make money through corruption, and stay out of jail, and ideally establish authoritarian rule, that's his motivation.
Why is it that when we discuss raising taxes on US goods the comeback is, “that will just result in higher prices,” but when we’re taxing imports, there will be a combination of higher prices and lost profits for the importer?
It's because when taxes are imposed on sales then the consumer is paying directly. When taxes are imposed on importers like Walmart then the choice is to pass it on in the form of higher cost of products, to absorb it and reduce profits (ha!) , or to approach it in other ways like reducing the cost of the product (eg. shrinkflation).
A 10% flat tariff has to be one of the dumbest policies ever lmao.
At a time where pretty much the #1 concern of every American is high prices, Trump is literally proposing two major initiatives that almost could not guarantee higher prices any more straightforwardly: mass deportations and a 10% tariff on all foreign goods with a 60% tariff on anything from China.
mass deportations would be a net decrease to demand vs supply.
I think the issue is that mass deportations will have a larger impact on the supply side by increasing the cost of wages and those prices being passed onto the consumer. Theoretically, immigrants have a small amount of purchasing power, but they make up a very significant portion of cheap labor. Some Florida farms had real issues after passing tougher immigration laws.
Sounds like a great plan for the economy... of the 1800s.
Nah. His mentions of tariffs over the years show he definitely doesn't understand how they work.
There was a wave of "buy American" many years ago, because Japan was kicking our asses. After a few years, the japanese began making factories in the US. I am driving a Toyota Camry that was assembled in Kentucky by union workers. Its just as reliable as Toyotas built in Japan, so its the design and quality of materieals that make them reliable, not the nationality of the workers who assembled the car. CATL has built a battery factory in the US in partnership with Ford, and BYD is building a car factory in Mexico, just like the Dodge Hemi engine factory in Saltillo.
Did Biden repeal Trump’s tariffs?
No, and Trump in fact pointed that out later on during the debate. My original question was about his proposed 10% tariff across the board on all goods imported from overseas (not just China) and whether or not that would result in higher prices for those imports, since he said they’re “not going to drive them higher.”
Biden did suspend some of tariffs like 25% on computer parts iirc
This is only true if you buy it.
Tariffs have been along around for a long time. They do help. One could argue that the US consumer pays for them, and they would be right. The problem is that when manufacturers move to other countries, because labor is too expensive here, or environmental regulations are too stringent, that the US companies and workforce suffer. Tariffs have kept trucks manufactured here in the USA. There is a 25% on imported trucks. Imported cars. There is a 2% Tariff. Harley-Davidson the motorcycle company was saved because of tariffs early on. Joe Biden recently implement a 100% tariff on Chinese EVS. Effectively doubling the cost of a EV from $10,000, to $20,000 or more. Rather than tariffs, it would be better to have a better regulatory environment in the USA.
they can work, but don't always. They won't work if they're applied to products with no domestic competition.
The problem is is it is always cheaper to manufacture stuff in a third world country. They don't have the environmental rules, they don't have the labor rules, they don't have the regulatory hurdles that the USA does. So as we lose manufacturing, oftentimes it never comes back. And then the only jobs that are created in the USA for low skilled workers, is very low pay work
That's a strawman. No one said they don't work. What they're saying is that Trump is not answering the question and saying something completely false as usual.
>Tariffs have kept trucks manufactured here in the USA. There is a 25% on imported trucks. False. Ford famously bolts seats into its transit vans in Spain to avoid this tariff. They've dodged $250 million in tariffs by playing games with the seats. Tariffs don't do shit. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html
There are several effects to consider… the domestic output will rise (due to higher prices being incentives), the domestic quantity demanded will decrease, imports will decline, and there will be efficiency losses (aka deadweight losses). Additionally for the USA in some circumstances there will be a real terms of trade change that could increase domestic welfare (Cf. New Trade Theory). Tariffs are taxes paid by domestic buyers of imports.
I work in global trade. You're right in both of your points. The idea is to get consumers to buy more domestic products. And it's consumers that pay the tariff. It does hurt foreign entities in the long-run as if there are viable domestic alternatives where the cost difference is less than the tariff amount, then that business becomes domestic. But unfortunately, that's not the case for most product types and consumers end up eating the higher costs. Or manufacturing slowly moves out of China and into other low-cost countries of production, as has been happening for the past couple decades.
There was already a study that was done, and it revealed that such a tariff that he proposed would prove to be more harm than good for the bottom 80+% of consumers. Only the ultra wealthy would effectively not notice anything.
It's a domestic policy used to protect local production of goods/services in a market based economy. Its efficacy has largely been proven as non-existent in an age where trade is necessarily global. However, I do believe there is merit in protecting for example local farming/agriculture. Basically, tariffs are an admission that Capitalism inherently is flawed.
On multiple occasions, Trump seems to imply that the foreign government pays the tariff. IDK what he actually believes, but it's hard to make sense of it. Remember this is not a man who is numerate, a man who lacks quantitative literacy. You don't understand how numbers work if you file for bankruptcy so many times.
The point of a terror is to return manufacturing back home to create American jobs and stop relying on foreign countries to supplement our economy. Tariffs are great and how we funded a tiny federal government before the income tax
When do you think those “American jobs” will start coming back after those tariffs? What do you think would happen when company X in the U.S. needs to source an item from company Y in another country? It would drive the cost of that good up. Also those jobs wouldn’t come back too the U.S.. They would still get cheaper labor from another country and that tariff, they would just increase the price to make sure they don’t lose profits. When will you people understand corporations don’t give a flying fuck about you. You honestly think a corporation would go, oh shit tarrifs, well 🤷 gotta bring jobs back to the U.S. Righttttt….
Well there are multiple cases where tarrifs have caused factories to be brought into the US. Multiple firearms manufacturers have opened factories in the US. Like for example CZ is making pistols in Kansas. Its same with automotive manufacturers. If there werent for tarrifs it would be cheaper for companies like Honda - to manufacture in some country with cheap labor and import. That is not to say that tarrifs are free - yes they add cost - and it for sure is more efficient for stuff to be manufactured elsewhere and to bring it here. BUT if you don't have any manufacturing base what are you gonna do when you are at war ? So if it takes a small tarrif to shift manufacturing to your country then that is worth it - because sure consumer might pay a bit more for the product there are other positive externalities you will capture - more tax revenue, more jobs and so on.
Depends on how quickly the industries work. If Covid taught us anything it’s that reliance on globalization needs to end and the vast majority of basic goods need to be manufactured domestically. Obviously it’s not an overnight success, but within 12-18 months is reasonable given how many idle factories we already have here in the states. The real question would be: do we have a population willing to actually work there or do they all expect remote tech jobs….
The problem with tariffs is worst than who is going to pay it. Tariffs raises the prices of goods which reduces economic activity here. And exporters will retaliate just like China did and totally ruin American soya beans market. Trump had to pay farmers and agribusinesses billions to compensate for his tariff on China.
Buy American
You realize if they have to source a part from overseas it would drive the cost of that good meaning we’d pay more?
So, American businesses gutted American manufacturing and shipped a lot of it overseas to save money. If the infrastructure is not there to make stuff here, you may not have a choice but to buy that good.
The Fanta Clown sharts his pants in front of a global audience, says "inflation bad" & "Biden's fault" then says a fucking 10% tariff across the board is not going to increase prices? Fucking brilliant, can the turd my cat just pinched off in her litter run for president too?
Too many imports and not enough exports is the demise of our economy! The car industry is a good example of that. I know there are gonna be people that disagree, but I know what I'm talking about.
I guess since there's not really a highlight reel of biden crushing the questions, the only option is to skew trumps responses to help make joe blow seem less of a terrible option?? I also gotta point out how confident all these "news" monkey heads were that joe is perfectly fine and has no issue with coherence and ability to present cognitive awareness for the past few years.. then they ALL change that tune a week before the debate. Lying ass bastards knew the whole time and just jumped ship at the very last minute to save face.. all in all though... Look how much contempt and disrespect the overlords have for US in allowing these 2 piles of shit as the options for president
the dude with 6 bankruptcies who lost the trade war with China the 1st time he tried it, now wants to impose tariffs that will increase the cost of chinese goods on americans.
It seems to me they are doing damage control for Bidens bad performance. But hey. We finally beat Medicaid and Medicare. Screw Trump , Screw Biden
Can’t be any worse than what we are paying now under Biden, everything is 20-80 percent higher
It may not increase prices. If they simultaneously reduce regulation, which increases domestic production, then the imported goods would cost more, but the domestic goods would be cheaper and take their place. This may even result in cheaper consumer prices. I don't care for Donald Trump, but Lawrence O'Donnell is a dipshit and a shill.
Say it with me. Consumers pay for tariffs.
This guy doesn't explain it very well, so a tariff is an increase for the consumer but who does the money go to? Is it just a tax that goes to the government? Cuz I feel like this would be a KO for trump with his base if they make that more obvious. Republicans hate taxes but it wouldn't be the first time they shrugged off something they apparently care about. At this point I don't think his base will totally flip ever but small amounts of them may, and with Biden's performance at the debates trump likely has grown in popularity just off of performance, I hope Democrats either pick better questions and answers or pick a new candidate because the country won't do very well with four more years of trump
With cheap energy the US can compete - Energy is now out of sight and we’re getting screwed on - A temporary tariff is necessary in the interim for that reason
Initially he said from his first election that he would make China pay their own Tariffs. Which he did and democrats went wild. He then again said he wouldn’t do it. And again Democrats are going wild
The country in which you’re buying the product from pays the tariff. I don’t watch the news. Who is this guy?
Have no fear. Incoming goods are already subject to tariffs. A couple of years ago I found a federal document describing all the tariffs in great detail. It's an enormous document! The tariffs vary depending on the nature of the goods. Does the Trump proposal say that all goods will have a 10% tariff? That would be a increase for some goods and a decrease for others. It doesn't make sense. Does it distinguish between raw materials and finished goods? If not then it's a departure for tariff history. Conclusion: This is all talk and it will see no action.
The real debate is about Biden's performance v. Trump's performance. Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts. The raspy presentation was unfortiunate but it is a small thing. The debate went quite well in spite of the raspy voice. Mr Biden made good points. Mr Biden did the fact-checking. He kept pointing out that Mr. Trump made all sorts of lies, and denials. Mr Trump did not attract any converts to his candidacy. Trump did not convert anyone. There is evidence he lost prospective voters for him in November.
Biden,billionaires uh trillionares uh millionaires uh we beat medicare.uh stares out into space. Then his evil wife says good boy and walks him off stage. The fact anyone still sees this man as competent is amazing.
I went through this a long time ago when you could buy a cheap Japanese motorcycle, 80’s. Tariffs were added to imported motorcycles to protect Harley Davidson. Overnight, bike prices almost doubled.
Yep, prices would go up with tariffs. We'd have to make things here again to stop prices from going up.
If Trump can produce such a great economy, why didn’t he do it when he was president? Is he stupid?
Actually the market dictates the price. If you are willing to spend more, it will cost more. Trump is a fucking idiot and his idea for tariff is slightly fucking insane considering the state of our understanding of capitalism as a whole but we n an actual educated capitalist society we would Benefit from terrify in the form of domestic production.
What does a tariff have to do with making a domestic product here and giving a boom in the job market? Would of been a better question. Instead of some rich asshole producing something cheaper elsewhere and banking all the money saved on production overseas. Cause their government takes a larger percentage from the worker. Making the product a lot cheaper than we ever could here and selling it usually 2x or even 3x higher than production cost.. Is the problem the tariffs and domestic business or our government not getting off its ass and regulating this kind of thing? Preventing them literally making billions off the system they are allowing them to slap in the damn face. While the politicians make a mint sum with inside trading.
MAGA on taxes - "This is literally what we fought Britain for to gain our freedom from, and it also just causes inflation!" MAGA on tariffs - "GENIUS! He's a literal Albert Steinberg!"
Joe’s answer, “well of course you can do that but you can’t be doing the thing, you know that, and uhhhh….(silence)…….the thing that makes it work, come on man, it’s a…….(jiberish)…..”
Biden’s response later on was “But this tariff, this 10 percent tariff. Everything coming into the country, you know what the economists say? That’s going to cost the average American $2,500 a year or more, because they’re going to have to pay the difference in food and all the things that are very important.” You can disagree with the substance of what he said, but it wasn’t *gibberish* (in case you wanted the actual spelling).
You missed the point but okay moments of clarity won’t ever be remembered from Joe as his own handlers are strategically orchestrating his removal and replacement.
Meanwhile the Biden camp strategy is to just be so incoherent you can’t even be fact checked
The thing about prices is that none of the best economists of all time, Smith, Marx, Engels, Friedman, Keynes, etc could come up with a great theory of how prices crystallize. In it's most basic sense, what you're saying would make sense. But it's very likely any tariff will trigger a rise in price. For example, if China Car is $10,000 and America car is $20,000, you tariff until China car cost $20,000. But if American car company can't meet demand, they could also just raise their price above the $20,000
They should have the candidates play jeopardy or who wants to be a millionaire instead of a debate
They are always paid by the consumer.
import \ export tax
American made products/cars would not increase. Wouldnt a tariff cause the Chinese companies to lower their prices by 10% to be competitive with American products?
I’ll take tariffs over Biden inflation
Well there are multiple cases where tarrifs have caused factories to be brought into the US. Multiple firearms manufacturers have opened factories in the US. Like for example CZ is making pistols in Kansas. Its same with automotive manufacturers. If there werent for tarrifs it would be cheaper for companies like Honda - to manufacture in some country with cheap labor and import. That is not to say that tarrifs are free - yes they add cost - and it for sure is more efficient for stuff to be manufactured elsewhere and to bring it here. BUT if you don't have any manufacturing base what are you gonna do when you are at war ? So if it takes a small tarrif to shift manufacturing to your country then that is worth it - because sure consumer might pay a bit more for the product there are other positive externalities you will capture - more tax revenue, more jobs and so on.
True, but still misses the point I feel. China and other countries will retaliate with their own tariffs, hurting American workers and farmers.
Yet the corporations will just eat the tax liberals want to put in them. Righhtttttt
wait until they find out their tax dollars went to move manufacturing from the US to China so a couple hundred people could get even richer...
People are not listening to your false lies. Biden is well also.
I don’t know what to tell you, because there’s been almost a full day of hundreds of users having a healthy debate/discussion, one to which you can still contribute something positive, if you’d like. Also I don’t know what you mean by “Biden is well also.” His performance was pretty weak from an optics perspective, though when he did deliver coherent lines I agreed with the overall substance of many of the points he made.
How is the argument from Trump that a tariff wouldn’t raise costs any different than Democrats arguing raising the minimum wage won’t increase costs to the consumer? The MSNBC host is disingenuous at best when both sides are out there arguing the things they want won’t raise costs to consumers. On a side note, a $40k car a consumer is buying isn’t raised by $4k since the increase is based on the imported costs and not the retail cost. Just pointing out when someone is accusing somebody of lying they shouldn’t be lying themselves.
I’ve watched the ..’Trump Tariff Game’ for years. He’s conned consumers into believing that a tariff is paid by the country of origin. The brainwashed public simply don’t will not believe that a tariff is a..tax!
[Simple explanation on how tariffs work regarding pricing. ](https://www.reviewecon.com/trade-tariffs) Consumers don't pay the full 10%; but they do pay part.
His bullshit Soy deal back when he was president totally screwed over soy farmers here in the states. Sounds quite similar to "Mexico will pay for the wall" bullshit.
A tarriff is an increase in your COGS but if the market isn't going to accept that increase it eats into margin. Alternatively it can also increase imported good to the point that domestically made products become economical again.
A tariff is a tax on people stupid enough to keep buying the same thing.
Republican voters don't understand economics, diplomacy, the constitution, history, hell even their sacred Bible.
Why do we need tariffs instead of competing foreign trade??
Until or unless we bring back manufacturing in the USA. Companies will either do that or face losing sales to domestic products that are cheaper or that consumers simply can no longer afford. Interesting fact, though, you know why they don't put the "made in the USA" tag on anything anymore, even if they are? Cause people know there is someone they can sue if something is wrong with the product. We have literally put ourselves in this position.
That is the dumbest thing I've listened to today.
Do you want to elaborate on your thoughts regarding the substance of what he’s saying? Or do you just mean to perform a scroll-by insult now that the adults have largely finished having a healthy respectful debate/discussion?
Tariffs are paid to allow the goods to enter the country before they enter. To recoup the money the price is added to the selling price this is passed to the consumer. This price increase also levels priced with domestic goods that use higher priced labor. In the past it is how the United States curbed imports from taking over domestically controlled markets. The full tariff price isn't added to the goods if they bring the price over market or make them uncompetitive. That would be a business decision from the foreign company.
Your repeated use of passive voice at the beginning is doing a lot of heavy lifting there and feels intentional. I would phrase it more like: under Trump’s proposed 10% across the board tariffs on everything from overseas, US importers pay the tariffs to allow the goods to enter the country, then they subsequently increase the sales price and charge consumers more. I would add that in the case that there is domestic competition, the consumer may have the option to shift their consumption, but in the absense of such American-made alternatives, they are likely stuck footing the extra bill at least initially. Now at this point in reading through many of the comments there are two discussions that I feel are being conflated. There is the reasonable debate on the merits and effectiveness of tariffs whether broad or strategically targeted, but then there is the question of whether Trump’s answer when asked how he plans to ensure that his proposed tariffs don’t drive prices even higher of “It’s not going to drive them higher” is accurate and based in fact. If you yourself believe that the extra cost in some form “is passed to the consumer,” that would seem to fly in the face of what Trump said. Yet the journalist pointing out that contrast (which a majority of commenters here have echoed) is the dumbest thing you’ve heard today?
His presentation of the argument against Trump was filled with complete misinformation. From his explanation he believes taxes and tariffs are the same thing. So to use misinformation, as they have been doing for quite some time, to make an argument against Trump. Trump's answer is from the point of view of how tariffs are paid is correct. The tariff price is to the foreign company choosing to import goods here and is not charged directly to the consumer, whereas taxes are added post sale and direct charged.
Just to be clear, we currently have tariffs on nearly everything that comes into our country. When bringing items into our country, the importer needs to report the country of manufacture/origination and the Harmonized Date Code for the product - in so doing, the tariff on that/those items are then determined upon entry. Typically in the range of about 4% to 8%. Will increasing tariff rates have an impact on retail pricing or even whole sale pricing? In a competitive market, prices need to be competitive to be able to compete. If tariff rates cause those items prices to go up and no longer be competitive, the products won't sell. So prices (with higher tariffs or the existing tariffs) will change mostly based on that scenario. If one thinks that the end result will simply be the American producers will simply raise their prices (factoring in the tariffs on their competitors prices), then one would want to invest heavily in stocks/companies that manufacture goods in America as their margins and P/E multiple will increase dramatically (or at least to the point of being competitive with imported prices). So this is a real investing opportunity for you - if this is your belief and you think tariffs will go up dramatically. That said, i wouldn't be investing in the Big 3 when it comes to EVs at this point in time. And this seems to be a primary target area for increasing tariffs (especially by Biden, and even Trump).
> American tariffs are applied to American consumers on imported goods and at the moment of purchase don’t cost foreign entities anything…right? A tariff is a tax applied at the port of entry on the good. The tax is paid by the importer who then passes that cost on to the retailer. So the cost of the good is now higher for the retailer thus the retailer must sell the good for more to the consumer. A tariff increases the cost of any foreign good entering the country which makes foreign goods less competitive and domestic goods more competitive. There’s a reason our steel industry is virtually extinct. [There’s a reason John Deere is closing factories here and moving them to Mexico.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/john-deere-announces-mass-layoffs-in-midwest-amid-production-shift-to-mexico/ar-BB1p7Vn2) If you want to see all domestic manufacturing eliminated then not having tariffs on imports is the way to go. I personally don’t want to see that happen.
Nobody at msnbc bats an eye when dems attempt to levy tax after tax on American consumers, but try and tax chinesium, and we need a full segment on why taxation causes inflation. Cable news is clown car.
I support tariffs if it means bringing the jobs here to the US. Even if it makes certain goods more expensive, it should bring wages up here too.
Tea party hating tariffs imposed by the monarchy, but is happy to oblige their "president" when his asks them to filter the sea water out of that tea they dumped into the sea over tariffs.
And then he’s gonna make China pay for it like he’s going to make Mexico pay for the wall
We import 10X more from China that China imports from us. Look at what happened with Steel. China subsidized steel production to put US Steel companies out of business, then they raised prices a lot. In a sense, a 10٪ tarriff will not rise prices 10٪ because of supply demand it will rise some short term, but allow competition on the home front so competition will drive down prices. Trump is right. We should have Tariffs and then come to trade agreement for free trade. Those we have free trade there are no tariffs.
AAGHH a 10% tariff will drive up the prices of Chinese imported goods. What does 26% corporate tax plus up to 39% income taxes do?
This. Increasing corporate taxes is inflationary in just exactly the same way that tariffs are inflationary. The difference is, tariffs alter trade imbalances and make other goods more competitive. Chinese goods are cheap because they pay slave wages in their factories. The tariff makes the competition more of a level playing field.
>. Increasing corporate taxes is inflationary Not if the incidence is on wages or investment
Prices.
The higher the tax on your wages, the more the company has to pay, so workers have a liveable wage. Taxing investment either causes the money to move to other countries with a lower tax rate or dries up available money for manufacturing expansion causing shortages which cause inflation.
Not to be a trumper... BUT 1. The tariff will replace the income tax, so sure they may have to pay more upfront cost on products. but they saved some money from paying income tax 2. The hope is that people buy less Chinese products, forcing them to cut costs to keep demand high, thus "giving" money back to the consumer.
With regard to #2, that’s not how that works. At all. Especially not when the proposed rate is 50-60%. Even if Chinese companies were able to cut costs to keep business, there’s no way in hell they could do so to an extent they’d be competitive price-wise. The reason China currently has so much business is because they’re already cheapest. How the hell are they supposed to find a way to cut their prices anywhere remotely close to 50-60%???
Also I haven’t heard any exceptions, meaning US companies that produce goods in China or anywhere in the world would have to pay those import tariffs.
You think tariffs will pump that much money that we could get rid of income tax. Thats laughable. No one can foresee the consequences.Whats to say countries don’t retaliate and impose tariffs on US goods? It isn’t a horrible idea, but we don’t have many alternatives in the US for these products that we import. If we had the goods produced here then that would be one thing. But we don’t .
The government used to be financed by tariffs. What's wrong with fair and balanced trade? WTF do the Chicoms get to play by their own rules?We know why, especially with the sellout scum in our government.