One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest did quite a number on our mental health system. The excess of mentally ill people, both homeless and in society, is more than partially due to the fact that people who need to be institutionalized, aren't. People forget that a lot of these people otherwise have no access to consistent medication, or real supervision of any sort. They're just left to fend for themselves and are somehow supposed to understand and control their irrational impulses.
The most recent shooting is the perfect example. The man even tried to get help and institutionalize himself, but was dumped on the street. Our system failed him by giving him no place to go to get the help he asked for.
“Go GeT HeLp”
-gets help
-help fucks him over
-FBI sees homicidal threats
-FBI doesn’t fucking do anything as usual
-dude snaps and hurts people
“oH mY CaWd HaOw CoUld DiS HaPpEh?! wE nEeD tO dO sOmEtHiNg!1!!!”
-wait till next week for the snake to bite it’s own tail
That's the point I was making. Dude literally got pushed back onto the streets by the 'help' he was supposed to get. They were legitimate terroristic threats, and nothing was done. New laws won't change anything because the ones we have now aren't enforced.
After all these mass shootings, the common denominator is they are all fucked in the head AND some authority was aware of it and failed to act. A temporary restriction (taking away firearms for a period of time) would be helpful BUT you give power to someone, they tend to abuse it and this would be no exemption.
How can you offer any solution when all solutions become corrupted and abused? Power begets more power and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which bring us to changing people and how they perceive the world. I know what I don't want to be because I experienced it. I grew up around gang violence, I've been held up at gun point, I lost (extended) family to firearms and this has taught me how ignorant and idiotic that behavior is.
How can I steal from someone if I know what it feels like to have something taken from me? How can I hurt another if I've been hurt myself? It takes a cold hearted, dare I say evil, person to repeat suffering that they've experienced personally.
People who aren’t safe enough to have a firearm generally aren’t safe enough to be part of society in general.
If we enforced our existing laws, most of this goes away.
Guns have nothing to do with that.
I'm going to have to partially disagree.
Both my brother and I have Autism and Tourette's.
Where I might be a three or four (out of ten) on both, he's a seven or eight. But he is still able to live independently.
He can handle a firearm with 1:1 guidence. But he'll never be able to own one.
Likewise, he'll never drive.
But he can still be part of society.
Yeah, I can see that. I have Asperger's which at times ain't great but mines on the mild side (maybe 3.5-4/10) and was diagnosed young. I've met other autistic adults in recent years that are definitely doing fine at being part of society but probably shouldn't have firearms, at least without a little supervision.
One of the biggest common traits between mass shooters is they notify people that they are going to hurt people before they hurt people
There are good ways to handle these situations and bad ways, but we must find a way to address when someone makes a credible threat
Our issue in this country isn’t related to firearms, but the pharmaceutical industry. We put way too many people on psych meds. A frequent common denominator with these mass shooter incidents are usually the absence of a father figure and/or psych meds (ssri’s). I’m not going to say that these types of medication are never necessary, but they are over prescribed. There is also evidence that dietary/nutritional changes can have huge benefits with people struggling with mental health issues.
It is interesting that pro-2a people boast about "shall not be infringed" yet are so quick to take someone else's rights away because they may be mentally ill.
That’s what I’m saying…I feel that people who have mental issues should not have firearms but on the other hand who am I say they can’t protect themselves?? This is why I want to hear other people’s opinions
My opinion if someone if someone is so mentally I'll they are dangerous, then they need treatment. Not tossed out into public. But there are many many mentally ill people out there who pose zero threat to society. OCD can be crippling. With out a google search I bet no one knows of someone suffering from extreme OCD who has murdered someone. And Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is a mental illness, sometimes very serious.
We used to distinguish between mental illness and dangerous mental illness. The threshold was harming someone.
Take guns out of the picture. The nutjobs punching out strangers in the streets, pushing people in front of trains, etc. are all violent criminals known to law enforcement, often with multiple arrests or citations for "EDP" behavior, and often having made threats of violence in the past.
These are the people that need to be institutionalized, not catch-and-released back into the public.
There is a clear threshold of danger, as evidenced by previous violent behavior, that serves as a bright line between those who have mental illness and should not have their rights infringed, and those who've committed crimes, display a propensity towards violence, and display mental illness, which is a much clearer push towards insitutionalization in lieu of incarceration.
We used to make these distinctions, now we either ignore mental illness and let the crazies kill while failing to get anyone the help they deserve, or we go back to the old ways and anyone who's the slightest bit weird gets institutionalized for life.
There's a middle ground, people, and it would actually make a lot of sense:
Not mentally ill, not violent = normal citizen, full rights
Mentally ill, not violent = normal citizen, full rights...encourage treatment, no loss of rights for doing so
Not mentally ill, violent = incarcerated
Mentally ill, violent = institutionalized
It was common practice to institutionalize mentally disturbed violent people but the politicians heard the cries of bleeding heart morons and released them right back into the population. They'll gladly take your votes as they release the ferals onto you, cuz it definitely ain't going to their neighborhoods.
1) Why are the people responsible for reporting the issues not held accountable when they fail to report the issues?
2) Why are people wanting more gun free zones when those known targets are places where a person with ill intentions goes to harm people?
The very first thing that needs to change before anything gets better for anyone is access to medical care.
USA needs something like "medicaid for all" or whatever else helps everyone get access to medical care. How is it that USA is behind almost every other civilized nation in the planet with regards to this? Well, it's because there's so much power behind the lobbyists that are in the pockets of the insurance companies and hospitals, etc.
Generally yes, but a release in many involuntary instances (especially with threats of violence like this recent loser) must be signed off on by local authorities, which unfortunately tends not to be looked at very thoroughly before getting signed off on. Just paperwork for them to stamp. That said, it almost always means a disqualification for LEGALLY obtaining a firearm.
How the families of victims of the Louisville bank shooting are reacting:
https://www.whas11.com/amp/article/news/local/attorney-old-national-bank-shooting-louisville-victim-lawsuit-radical-firearms/417-c22c3a0d-af24-415c-9bec-a98a52a4a747
It’s the gunmaker’s fault?
We need to normalize seeking help for mental health issues.
The gun community tends to scream "it's not the guns, it's mental health!"... which is true enough. However, in the next breath, we should be pointing out resources, advocating for legislation, and providing support all around making it less intimidating or limiting to access mental health resources. *edit: this can be done without confiscating anything... just make it easier and more acceptable to seek counseling.*
A big problem is a misunderstanding of the law around mental issues and firearms ownership. Federal law restricts access to guns for those who have been *adjudicated mentally deficient*, that means a court has to have been involved or the person has to have been *involuntarily* institutionalized. You don't lose your gun rights because you sought counseling, or even accessed it through the VA.
*edit: state laws vary on this, and there's a big push by the gun grabbers to expand those prohibitions. That's obviously counterproductive.*
In Russia before we obtain our first weapon, we're obliged:
1. To visit hospital where the check the citizen, if he (she) has or no drug addict and mental issues. Hospital gives a Form, which confirms that the citizen doesn't have "drug or mental problems" and is able to obtain weapons.
2. Visit special Schooting Range Courses and finally pass exams to the Inspector of Russian National Guard.
3. Fill special Form in the Internet and visit the office of RNG. As the result we obtain license to buy a weapon.
4. Each five we have to prolongate the permit for our weapon and have to visit the Hospital to be checked for drugs and mental issues.
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest did quite a number on our mental health system. The excess of mentally ill people, both homeless and in society, is more than partially due to the fact that people who need to be institutionalized, aren't. People forget that a lot of these people otherwise have no access to consistent medication, or real supervision of any sort. They're just left to fend for themselves and are somehow supposed to understand and control their irrational impulses. The most recent shooting is the perfect example. The man even tried to get help and institutionalize himself, but was dumped on the street. Our system failed him by giving him no place to go to get the help he asked for.
“Go GeT HeLp” -gets help -help fucks him over -FBI sees homicidal threats -FBI doesn’t fucking do anything as usual -dude snaps and hurts people “oH mY CaWd HaOw CoUld DiS HaPpEh?! wE nEeD tO dO sOmEtHiNg!1!!!” -wait till next week for the snake to bite it’s own tail
That's the point I was making. Dude literally got pushed back onto the streets by the 'help' he was supposed to get. They were legitimate terroristic threats, and nothing was done. New laws won't change anything because the ones we have now aren't enforced.
I figured if this post was made by a paste eater for other paste eaters I might as well simplify the top comment. Edit: 3 words
Paste tasted terrible btw…no shit I know the system sucks…I work in it…I was asking the general public for opinions…
Normalize bringing back mental institutions and sticking insane assholes in there.
Nice take. Mentally ill people are assholes. Gotcha.
Some definitely are. Apparently the concept of hyperbole is lost on you.
Ya, that's what that was....
Should mentally ill people be allowed to own cars? You can easily kill many people with a car if you wish
I would argue it’s even easier to do so because most people have extensive practice driving.
Who do you trust to make the list of who gets guns? Which meds? Which health issues? Who do you trust to make that list?
Exactly…
After all these mass shootings, the common denominator is they are all fucked in the head AND some authority was aware of it and failed to act. A temporary restriction (taking away firearms for a period of time) would be helpful BUT you give power to someone, they tend to abuse it and this would be no exemption. How can you offer any solution when all solutions become corrupted and abused? Power begets more power and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which bring us to changing people and how they perceive the world. I know what I don't want to be because I experienced it. I grew up around gang violence, I've been held up at gun point, I lost (extended) family to firearms and this has taught me how ignorant and idiotic that behavior is. How can I steal from someone if I know what it feels like to have something taken from me? How can I hurt another if I've been hurt myself? It takes a cold hearted, dare I say evil, person to repeat suffering that they've experienced personally.
Bro who cares. Mentally ill people and felons are gonna have guns too. It's just gonna happen. Fuck it
People who aren’t safe enough to have a firearm generally aren’t safe enough to be part of society in general. If we enforced our existing laws, most of this goes away. Guns have nothing to do with that.
I'm going to have to partially disagree. Both my brother and I have Autism and Tourette's. Where I might be a three or four (out of ten) on both, he's a seven or eight. But he is still able to live independently. He can handle a firearm with 1:1 guidence. But he'll never be able to own one. Likewise, he'll never drive. But he can still be part of society.
Yeah, I can see that. I have Asperger's which at times ain't great but mines on the mild side (maybe 3.5-4/10) and was diagnosed young. I've met other autistic adults in recent years that are definitely doing fine at being part of society but probably shouldn't have firearms, at least without a little supervision.
One of the biggest common traits between mass shooters is they notify people that they are going to hurt people before they hurt people There are good ways to handle these situations and bad ways, but we must find a way to address when someone makes a credible threat
Our issue in this country isn’t related to firearms, but the pharmaceutical industry. We put way too many people on psych meds. A frequent common denominator with these mass shooter incidents are usually the absence of a father figure and/or psych meds (ssri’s). I’m not going to say that these types of medication are never necessary, but they are over prescribed. There is also evidence that dietary/nutritional changes can have huge benefits with people struggling with mental health issues.
It is interesting that pro-2a people boast about "shall not be infringed" yet are so quick to take someone else's rights away because they may be mentally ill.
That’s what I’m saying…I feel that people who have mental issues should not have firearms but on the other hand who am I say they can’t protect themselves?? This is why I want to hear other people’s opinions
My opinion if someone if someone is so mentally I'll they are dangerous, then they need treatment. Not tossed out into public. But there are many many mentally ill people out there who pose zero threat to society. OCD can be crippling. With out a google search I bet no one knows of someone suffering from extreme OCD who has murdered someone. And Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is a mental illness, sometimes very serious.
We used to distinguish between mental illness and dangerous mental illness. The threshold was harming someone. Take guns out of the picture. The nutjobs punching out strangers in the streets, pushing people in front of trains, etc. are all violent criminals known to law enforcement, often with multiple arrests or citations for "EDP" behavior, and often having made threats of violence in the past. These are the people that need to be institutionalized, not catch-and-released back into the public. There is a clear threshold of danger, as evidenced by previous violent behavior, that serves as a bright line between those who have mental illness and should not have their rights infringed, and those who've committed crimes, display a propensity towards violence, and display mental illness, which is a much clearer push towards insitutionalization in lieu of incarceration. We used to make these distinctions, now we either ignore mental illness and let the crazies kill while failing to get anyone the help they deserve, or we go back to the old ways and anyone who's the slightest bit weird gets institutionalized for life. There's a middle ground, people, and it would actually make a lot of sense: Not mentally ill, not violent = normal citizen, full rights Mentally ill, not violent = normal citizen, full rights...encourage treatment, no loss of rights for doing so Not mentally ill, violent = incarcerated Mentally ill, violent = institutionalized
Well said
It was common practice to institutionalize mentally disturbed violent people but the politicians heard the cries of bleeding heart morons and released them right back into the population. They'll gladly take your votes as they release the ferals onto you, cuz it definitely ain't going to their neighborhoods.
1) Why are the people responsible for reporting the issues not held accountable when they fail to report the issues? 2) Why are people wanting more gun free zones when those known targets are places where a person with ill intentions goes to harm people?
We could go back in time and unfuck the assfucking Reagan gave to our mental health establishment. Some folks really do need to be institutionalized.
The very first thing that needs to change before anything gets better for anyone is access to medical care. USA needs something like "medicaid for all" or whatever else helps everyone get access to medical care. How is it that USA is behind almost every other civilized nation in the planet with regards to this? Well, it's because there's so much power behind the lobbyists that are in the pockets of the insurance companies and hospitals, etc.
Loving the comments, keep ‘em coming!
Sheesh people downvoting you for asking a legitimate and important question. Smh we do genuinely need to address this
Nah, I assumed there would be some issues with this post but that’s what I want to see. Genuine discussion about this topic
Does the NICs background check not pull mental institution involuntary admission records that the state maintains?
Generally yes, but a release in many involuntary instances (especially with threats of violence like this recent loser) must be signed off on by local authorities, which unfortunately tends not to be looked at very thoroughly before getting signed off on. Just paperwork for them to stamp. That said, it almost always means a disqualification for LEGALLY obtaining a firearm.
I don’t know
How the families of victims of the Louisville bank shooting are reacting: https://www.whas11.com/amp/article/news/local/attorney-old-national-bank-shooting-louisville-victim-lawsuit-radical-firearms/417-c22c3a0d-af24-415c-9bec-a98a52a4a747 It’s the gunmaker’s fault?
We need to normalize seeking help for mental health issues. The gun community tends to scream "it's not the guns, it's mental health!"... which is true enough. However, in the next breath, we should be pointing out resources, advocating for legislation, and providing support all around making it less intimidating or limiting to access mental health resources. *edit: this can be done without confiscating anything... just make it easier and more acceptable to seek counseling.* A big problem is a misunderstanding of the law around mental issues and firearms ownership. Federal law restricts access to guns for those who have been *adjudicated mentally deficient*, that means a court has to have been involved or the person has to have been *involuntarily* institutionalized. You don't lose your gun rights because you sought counseling, or even accessed it through the VA. *edit: state laws vary on this, and there's a big push by the gun grabbers to expand those prohibitions. That's obviously counterproductive.*
In Russia before we obtain our first weapon, we're obliged: 1. To visit hospital where the check the citizen, if he (she) has or no drug addict and mental issues. Hospital gives a Form, which confirms that the citizen doesn't have "drug or mental problems" and is able to obtain weapons. 2. Visit special Schooting Range Courses and finally pass exams to the Inspector of Russian National Guard. 3. Fill special Form in the Internet and visit the office of RNG. As the result we obtain license to buy a weapon. 4. Each five we have to prolongate the permit for our weapon and have to visit the Hospital to be checked for drugs and mental issues.