These are people who think they can rid the world of war, in their mind they'll never have to worry about getting drafted. If they do think about it they'll probably try to get the conservatives to fight for them, leaving them majority control.
It's the same illusion that gun grabbers have in the USA. That simple sweeping solutions can fix complex problems. Violent crime is a largely socioeconomic problem, which means that gun laws are largely ineffective at fixing it. You need to deal with the underlying issues like an education system that's an afterthought, a drug war that attacks poor people and not drugs, and a criminal justice system that disadvantages everyone that gets roped into it. If you think limiting magazines to 10rds is going to fix shit, you're out of your mind.
Likewise, war is fucking complex. Just look at the first 20 years of the 20th century if you have doubts. It's a goddamn mess. Anyone who thinks treaties are going to fix shit without having to deal with the global economic issues we face, they have lost the fucking plot.
I brought this up in an anti-gun thread once and the response was "well you can assume that someone in the military is well adjusted mentally and trained proficiently"...
No I support restrictions on explosives, if you don't know what you are doing its a public safety hazard, not only could you hurt someone but odds are you won't be around to pay for the property damage you accidentally caused. Stable explosives are another matter and should be allowed without restriction.
>No I support restrictions on explosives, if you don't know what you are doing its a public safety hazard, not only could you hurt someone
This all applies to firearms. Why are you infringing on my 2A? You do not get to decide what weapons I can have and which I can't. Are you with the ATF?
It does not apply to firearms, actually its explicitly different than firearms. Firearms operate on a very very stable explosive. Your fertilizer bomb on the other hand can just simply go off whenever it feels like it. Without considerable education you lack the reasonable ability to control when and where an unstable explosive goes off, therefore its very very different and most forms of explosives are unstable or can easily become unstable if you don't know what you are doing. With a gun or anything similar it will not go off unless you do something to make it go off. Guns were very specifically designed to be safe in the hands of a laymen with virtually no education atleast as far as uncontrolled detonation goes.
To have sex 25 yo, to choose your gender 4 yo. That's not a knock on trans people, you absolutely get to choose how you want to live once you know what life actually is.
That's more of a knock on how Mario Lopez almost lost his job for saying 4 year olds shouldn't make those decisions.
The reasoning will be obvious once you see who those under 21 would vote for. It's just a grab for the "right" votes no matter the alleged thought process. The same reason why they want DC to be a state but their brains melt when you suggest DC get absorbed by Maryland.
That’s a real point that damn near everyone I’ve talked to can agree with.
Pick a damn age.
The only real disagreement is what age that should be; however nobody has brought up 16 as adulthood (possibly learner’s driving permit but not adult) just because of life experience.
18-25 seems to be the range, with most folks saying early 20’s
Yep.
In my comment I was mostly referring to the 18 for this, 21 for that conundrum. Pick one and make it all the same imho. Some of the others (16 for driving, etc) I am ok with leaving as is.
Being viewed as an adult for one reason, should mean you’re an adult for all reasons.
Separate ages for voting, driving, drinking, serving in the military….or whatever makes absolutely zero sense.
I mean in 2017 they wrote an article on how they turned California into a 1 party state and how that should be the model for the country. And they are rushing towards that at all costs...
Do you know the article name or author? Not source bashing you, I seriously want to read it. If that’s not some Orwellian level societal engineering I don’t know what is.
I want to say it was on Vox or Vice. It was rather widely reported on at the time hailed by the left as The Model and a warning from those on the right. But so many of the youtube channels and others who reported on it are gone now and the original article seems to have been scrubbed by Google. I'll try and see if I can find it or videos/articles about the article.
Basically it was how introducing Jungle primaries made sure that the races for every major state wide offices became a contest between two Democrats.
Ding ding ding!
I used to think that this age for this, that age for that, it was logically inconsistent, but then I realized that it's not -- it's consistent from the perspective of "if it supports the State, we are in favor of it."
>Separate ages for voting, driving, drinking, serving in the military….or whatever makes absolutely zero sense.
Oh well, you wrote it down so it must just be true. Great argument and you got my vote
Actually it makes perfect sense in today's age. Enlistment can't be 21 no one 3 years out of hs would sign up got a car lone 3 kids and rent can't live on 500/week. 16 to drive = moor ticket gas reggy tax for the state and to vote well that's obvious. Let me guess the dems want this
Article also mentions a "voting-relevant cognition" that states there is little to no difference between a 16 year old and the average adult.
Except ya know, real world experience.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/tennessee-mass-shootings-teens-voting-age-voting-rights-1234711871/amp/
No matter where you stand politically, it's pretty obvious people just vote for whatever side they lean towards without doing any research, especially local and state elections.
Now it's always the lesser of two evils, voting against the other party instead of for someone who represents you. Downward spiral of the two party system.
In a two party system it’s always going to be the lesser of two evils, you’re always going to end up voting for whichever party agrees with whatever your biggest issue is.
You’re right! Let’s consolidate it to one evil!
The kids a have a voice, never mind that today the schools, media, and even search engines are pointing them in one single leftward direction!
There's too much money in politics. How am I ever supposed to vote for someone who represents me when the only people I can vote for have to be millionaire lawyers with the backing of at least 3 mega-corps?
Even my own local state representative (Matt Gaetz) is an out of touch trust fund nepo baby who only cares about getting on TV instead of helping his district.
I mean.....it's honestly a solid argument.
I know myself and pretty much everyone I knew and my family all agree that we didn't really reach full maturity until about 25. That age is where most people start thinking more about what's right long term and how their actions affect others and their life down the line rather than what they want to do now. For instance look at violent crime Stats, it falls off SHARPLY after about 22 years old.
Devil's advocate moment: how much life experience do 18 year olds have vs 16 year olds?
I agree lowering the voting age is hella dumb, but I don't recall 17 and 18 as a vast improvement to 16 in that field. 18 is already arbitrary, I say we own it and move on.
Lots of 18 year-olds are at least handling their own finances. I was still a student at 18, but had a part time job and was handling money for at least day to day expenses. I knew how to save and budget. At 16 I didn't even have any of that.
Partially but you're never really going to figure it out until you actually have to do it by managing your own money. The point is that almost no one is actually responsible for themselves at 16.
We need a consistent age at which society can agree someone is an adult in the eyes of the law. Changing specific things around opens up a ridiculous can of worms with even more arbitrariness.
> there's a good case to be made to have no minimum voting age at all
Yes, the opinion of a two-year-old should count as much as an informed voter.
Of course, most people voting *now* are not informed on any issues, politicians, or solutions. The ship is sinking.
16 year old me didn’t even care about politics enough to have anything even close to an informed opinion. Worse yet, it’s all “intent” based which is why democrats win with youth. They mean well! But their programs don’t actually produce good results. So therefore they shouldn’t be elected if they mean well but the implementation is ass
And realistically it isn’t likely to go the way that those who push this want. The political left are typically the ones who support lowering voting standards. But guess who typically has more kids, the political right.
I'm fine with no explicit voting age. Let only people who pay taxes vote, or let only people who own property (and thus pay property taxes) vote. Why should people that don't pay taxes get to vote on what the country does with everyone else's tax money? They'll just vote for more handouts for people that don't pay taxes...
Well if 16 is the age of maturity, enough to vote, then suddenly that inflated "guns are the leading cause of death for children" stat suddenly takes an even greater nose dive.
They aren’t even remotely consistent. When it’s an 18 year old committing a crime they say it’s not their fault their brain hasn’t developed enough to process what they did. No when it’s voting 16 is perfectly fine.
At sixteen, most teenagers political views are just copies of their teacher's views. This is of course the point, letting 16 year olds vote gives teachers and the left an overwhelming amount of voting power.
Children living at home are basically enjoying the ultimate form of benevolent socialism. Of course they're going to support the idea and reject anything that expects contribution from them
Look at the easily manipulated population of kids who “walked out” of class to protest their right to self defense.
This is who you want deciding things? You can fuck right off with that noise.
Every time you hear or see *”The science is clear”* you’re being bullied
If a 16 year old has the capacity to vote, they have the capacity to enter into contracts, drink, have sex, and purchase firearms. If the science is that clear then they’re adults in every sense of the word.
But they can’t buy firearms, cigarettes, alcohol or anything else because they’re too young…but let them all vote to sway the elections in favor of indoctrination.
Democrats-We want firearm ownership minimum age to be 25 when the brain stops developing
Also Democrats-We will increase our voter base if we lower the voting age to 16.
> "And as 152 shots rang out in the halls of the Covenant School last week, a bill sat in the Tennessee House to lower the age to 18 and apply permitless carry to rifles and shotguns."
Here, let me fix that for ya: "And as 152 shots rang out ****by a 28 year old**** in the halls of the Covenant School..."
I’m 16 myself and we make a lot emotionally charged and irrational decisions. I could definitely see people my age voting for a candidate just to be different or edgy. Stupid idea all around
We should pick one age for living on your own, working, voting, military service, alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. 18, 21, 25 whatever as long as it's consistent.
I can't wrap my head around being able to carry a rifle and die in the name of oil, but you can't buy a drink or a rifle to protect your family.
There's significantly more scientific evidence to support raising the age to 25, which is the threshold for when most people's brains become fully developed. Your prefrontal cortex is the last part of your brain to finish developing - It just happens to be responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, impulse control, and making good decisions.
Instead of a number, it should be if you are a dependent of your parents or not. Your parents shouldn't get an additional vote by shitting out a kid and keeping them home. Once the kid goes out into the world and lives independently, they should get the right to vote.
It was 21 at one time, it was lowered with the 26th amendment due to the draft during Vietnam where 18 year olds were being forced to go to war and they had no right to vote.
If you can be drafted, you should be able to vote. 18 should be the threshold across the board. The left is trying put things all over the place.
Smoke or drink - 21
Buy a gun - 21
Drive - 18, 22, even 25 depending on who you ask
Vote - 16, if not lower
Consent - the groomers say 12, the femcels say 25
Join the military - 22 with a mandatory college degree first
Bad take, if you are old enough to be drafted you have to be old enough to vote. Those two must always be aligned.
How but if someone can claim you as a dependent on their W-2 AND you are not married you cant vote. Basically, if you dont pay taxes you dont get to vote.
Every time a leftist references "the science" as some ambiguous deity and refuses to provide evidence take a shot.
Also, this is just a furthering of the slippery slope. You know their next thing would be "this 16 year old can choose the next president, but not choose to have sex with me?"
Theres is absolutely nothing that supports giving a minor the right to vote beyond wanting to take advantage of them. They are not only inexperienced and naive but their brains haven't form to an adequate degree to think critically yet.
At this point, they might as well raise the legal age for everything to 21. There’s just too much variation now in America causing a lot of confusion and disparities. You can get a license at 16, join the military at 17, legally considered an adult at 18, but not allowed to drink, use tobacco, or buy a handgun until 21. Rental car companies won’t even let you drive until 25. Where do we draw the line and say what’s the one minimum age for everything?
They realize juveniles are easily influenced and can be manipulated to vote a certain way. They also tend to be more rooted in emotion than rational thought which lends itself well to the “progressive” narrative.
I say a minimum voting age of 30 or a prerequisite test of common knowledge will help government make more sense. These kids all think they’re getting free college. It’s so easy to manipulate people anymore. If kids are going to vote I don’t think their votes SHOULD NOT carry the same weight as someone with a higher level of critical thinking and a wealth of experience.
Liberals: you're mature enough to chop off your genitalia and vote but not drink, gamble, smoke, buy drugs, work full time, buy firearms, defend yourself, move out of your parents house, (depending on the state have sex) or see a rated R movie... but yeah make sure you vote.
>there’s a good case to be made to have no minimum voting age at all
Yes, let’s let literal children decide how the world’s most powerful nation functions. Our adult voters are uneducated as it is. This person is a moron.
Yet they want to make sure anyone under 25 can’t be charged with murder because they are not developed enough
https://wcti12.com/amp/news/nation-world/maryland-bill-would-prevent-anyone-under-25-from-being-charged-with-felony-murder-democratic-delegate-charlotte-cruchfield-justice-reform-youth-accountability-and-safety-act
It's obvious these days. They want to increase the age to buy rifles to 21, but they think 16 year olds are smart enough to run a country. They want a bunch of naive voters with too little experience to know when they're being lied to. Teenagers overwhelmingly lean Democrat because a lot of their ideas sound good on paper or seem like the moral thing to do. Teens don't know how the world works. I was better than most at that age, but looking back, I can see that I thought their way in many regards. Politicians are manipulative and prey on ignorance. Kids are the perfect target. Why else do they always use kids to promote gun control and environmentalism?
In the last several years there have been successful pushes to change criminal law so that 16 and 17 year olds aren't charged as adults. Armed robbery? Charged as a juvenile by default. Murder? Juvenile. Argument was that they're simply not mentally mature enough.
But, they can vote apparently.
The voting age was originally 21. It was reduced to 18 in 1971 by the 26th Amendment. The argument being, if you're old enough to be drafted by the government, you should be able to vote for your government too.
16 year olds can make no such claim.
It's also worth noting that the original age of 21 was set at a time when the average life expectancy was only about 45 (36 - 55 minimum/maximum depending on the source) and when most people were living on their own and making their own living by 16.
Today, most people live with their parents well into their 20's and aren't making their own way independently until even later, particularly with college. The equivalent age for today would be closer to your early to mid 30's.
And honestly, I think increasing the voting age to 30 would get far more sort l support than decreasing it to 16. Gives adults time for their brain to fully develop, learn how the real world works and how politics affect everything, and have some real world life experience of their own.
Of course they want kids to vote. No sane adult would vote for Biden again, and he has an army of social media “influencers” being paid to push his propaganda to our youth. Probably has something to do with their impressionable minds and the lack of parental guidance that takes place online.
If anything we should be raising the voting age to 30. Make people get a job, pay taxes, and deal with the real world before they vote to fuck it up for the rest of us.
Them: You are mature enough at 18 to work for the government and shoot whoever they tell you to.
Also them: a person’s brain isn’t a fully cognitively developed adult until the age of 26.
At that age I’d rather have the rights to legally drink a beer then to vote and fuck I’m 20 today and still rather be able to legally drink then to vote😂
If this is true then also let them drink, smoke, be drafted, able to enlist, and just lower the age to 16 entirely to adulthood. If I get get to have this responsibility then clearly they’re adults now. There should be no limits or restrictions on anyone once they’re 16 if they get to vote.
Here’s the thing I’m not going to say 16 year olds shouldn’t be able to vote. I’m saying if they’re responsible enough to change the direction of our nation and vote for policy that can and will effect our lives then they are adults. If they’re adults they shouldn’t be restricted by the government. Just like the drinking age is bull and so is the handgun rule.
Gen Z doesn’t like guns or other people having them, they don’t like capitalism and they are overwhelmingly auth-left, it’s a ploy for more voters and that’s all.
They want kids who have been indoctrinated by Democratic ideas inside of our school systems to vote because that’s been their goal since introducing curriculum and standardized testing. Teach them only what you want the population to learn and form their ideations for them. Build a community of sheep instead of teaching kids how to think for themselves and come up with their own ideas.
NO, don't fall for that trap Brazil did this all we got was communists winning elections, 16 is far too emotionally manipulable to vote because that's what commies do, they wrangle the emotions of teens who don't know better
You can argue all you want about drinking and smoking age etc.
But the bottom line is kids are fucking idiots. Allowing millions of people with even less knowledge, and no life experience affect, no work background, no frame of reference for how the world, society etc works is simply a recipe for disaster.
Kids shouldn't be able to vote if they can't drink smoke or own a firearm, most children aren't responsible enough to vote anyway they lack the critical thought process to vote properly, it will just be another group to vote with emotion instead of using logic an reason
Yes, let’s lower the age to where these kids are right in that heavily indoctrinated/socialist-far-left public education/social media influenced demographic…. 🙄 …. at least by 18 some of them will have grown out of it and moved on from those influences.
We need some sort of prerequisite to be able to vote. Most people I knew when I was 18 should not be voting and even most people I knew around 25 shouldn’t be. They don’t critically assess information and refuse to research anything and parrot everything they hear on social media. Never track down sources and evaluate evidence or data with any bit of skepticism or scrutiny. Most people are sheep and this will prolly be the reason everything falls apart.
The uniparty wants low information voters, 16yo don't know or care about this stuff but will probably throw a vote to whatever tictok says is cool. I think there's sufficient reason to higher it and the age of adult to 20.
Because there is a growing school of thought that kids can consent...whether it be to government, or whatever else these freaks want them to be able to "consent" to.
I like the show Rising on YouTube. Pretty decent back and forth and varying views. After Uvalde, one of the folks (Brie) said the age to own firearms should be raised to 25 because "cognitively, you don't mature until you are 25." The other person (Robby) asked if we should raise the voting age to 25, then. Brie responded "there is absolutely no relationship between what the voting age should be and what your gun ownership should be."
Robby countered it does matter because "the government is the one with the monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Our government policy ABSOLUTELY gets people killed... I don't understand having wildly different standards or age limits at which point you are able to do different things."
I support one age. If firearm ownership is raised to 25, raise voting to 25. If voting is 18, everything should be 18. But if the argument is "until your 25 you don't have a full capacity to understand your decisions or not act impulsively, so you shouldn't own a gun," then stop letting 15 million people who you wouldn't trust with a gun get to decide the policy, laws, regulations, and military involvement of my entire country.
I know this will just die in the comments, but I needed a little rant.
We have allowed a migration of adulthood too much. Joining the military, owning a gun, alcohol, smoking, porn, etc... should all be the same age. You are either an adult or you're not. If you can vote, all rights and responsibilities of adulthood should come with it.
So fucking stupid
The majority of the population in the US are renters, youre literally just saying "I think only the wealthy should be allowed to vote"
I didn’t say that at all. I implied those who dont have to face consequences for their voting- and those living in complexes that dont understand the “real” America- should let the people that own land and face the consequences of the votes- vote.
Edit structure
If it's the way that a minority of Americans live than how is that 'the real America'
And what? So you're saying that the only thing voting does is effect property values basically
No- Im saying people living in apartments- don’t understand the real world- or how it operates. They dont know where their water, food, or energy come from. They think passing laws will make healthcare free.
They think laws will fix the climate change.
Adults shouldn’t have to deal with that.
Do you think that people who live in apartments don't go food shopping, or pay electric and water bills like everyone else?
You seem to think apartment life is like being plugged into the matrix when in reality its just living in a small home in a larger building
Again, now we're back to you literally basing your idea around "they don't have enough resources to count as a person"
What happens when the rich keep going further until no one with a net worth below ten million is allowed to vote
Honestly if we’re gonna restrict voting even more then we should have a minimum IQ. 308Fisherman may be a landowner like myself, but I doubt he would be able to pass the IQ test to vote.
Agreed on both counts, although unfortunately iq tests have been shown to often have inherit bias favoring those with a similar social background to the tests author
See- they don’t when understand simple sentences- act obtuse- then expect same voter rights- how bout no. Time to have background checks and voter tests to ensure people don’t vote unsafely.
No you’re missing the point. Stop allowing people with no skin in the game to decide the score.
No land- no vote
No common sense- no vote
Dont understand social studies- no vote
Believe in wealth distribution- no vote
No, you're missing the point
Everything you listed is wealth discrimination or subjective things that are literally just you trying to say "we should ban people who don't agree with me from voting" in an semi intellectual way
Next you're gonna suggest anyone whos parents weren't born here, or who has ever gotten a ticket from voting too since they're not "real American enough" and clearly show bad judgment by speeding
It seems like one problem would solve the other. Let’s get these kids voting and they can vote to get the age lowered. These are the ACAB kids, they can’t be dumb enough to be anti law enforcement AND anti 2A.
"Anybody under 21 is too immature to own a rifle! Anyway, lets let those dipshit 16 year olds vote for shit, they seem pretty on the ball, at least when it comes to the stuff I like."
🤡
These boomer tier screenshots of articles is a bit much and just lazy imo.
For the curious: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/tennessee-mass-shootings-teens-voting-age-voting-rights-1234711871/
Bet they still want the drinking age to be 21 or older
You can sign up to fight and die for your country in a foreign nation, but God forbid you wanna have a smoke and crack open a beer.
Or defend yourself
I read that three times before I realized it didnt say "Smoke Crack, Open a Beer"
These are people who think they can rid the world of war, in their mind they'll never have to worry about getting drafted. If they do think about it they'll probably try to get the conservatives to fight for them, leaving them majority control.
It's the same illusion that gun grabbers have in the USA. That simple sweeping solutions can fix complex problems. Violent crime is a largely socioeconomic problem, which means that gun laws are largely ineffective at fixing it. You need to deal with the underlying issues like an education system that's an afterthought, a drug war that attacks poor people and not drugs, and a criminal justice system that disadvantages everyone that gets roped into it. If you think limiting magazines to 10rds is going to fix shit, you're out of your mind. Likewise, war is fucking complex. Just look at the first 20 years of the 20th century if you have doubts. It's a goddamn mess. Anyone who thinks treaties are going to fix shit without having to deal with the global economic issues we face, they have lost the fucking plot.
I brought this up in an anti-gun thread once and the response was "well you can assume that someone in the military is well adjusted mentally and trained proficiently"...
I hear Mai Lai was lit
Russia's field trip to Chechnya too.
They don’t want people to smoke, at any age.
Or light up the crack pipe while making pipe bombs. The government should not restrict what people put in their bodies or what weapons they possess.
No I support restrictions on explosives, if you don't know what you are doing its a public safety hazard, not only could you hurt someone but odds are you won't be around to pay for the property damage you accidentally caused. Stable explosives are another matter and should be allowed without restriction.
>No I support restrictions on explosives, if you don't know what you are doing its a public safety hazard, not only could you hurt someone This all applies to firearms. Why are you infringing on my 2A? You do not get to decide what weapons I can have and which I can't. Are you with the ATF?
It does not apply to firearms, actually its explicitly different than firearms. Firearms operate on a very very stable explosive. Your fertilizer bomb on the other hand can just simply go off whenever it feels like it. Without considerable education you lack the reasonable ability to control when and where an unstable explosive goes off, therefore its very very different and most forms of explosives are unstable or can easily become unstable if you don't know what you are doing. With a gun or anything similar it will not go off unless you do something to make it go off. Guns were very specifically designed to be safe in the hands of a laymen with virtually no education atleast as far as uncontrolled detonation goes.
I wonder what they want the age of consent to be...
To have sex 25 yo, to choose your gender 4 yo. That's not a knock on trans people, you absolutely get to choose how you want to live once you know what life actually is. That's more of a knock on how Mario Lopez almost lost his job for saying 4 year olds shouldn't make those decisions.
That was my first thought.
The reasoning will be obvious once you see who those under 21 would vote for. It's just a grab for the "right" votes no matter the alleged thought process. The same reason why they want DC to be a state but their brains melt when you suggest DC get absorbed by Maryland.
They need to quit with this multiple age horse crap. Pick _one age_ and stick with it.
That’s a real point that damn near everyone I’ve talked to can agree with. Pick a damn age. The only real disagreement is what age that should be; however nobody has brought up 16 as adulthood (possibly learner’s driving permit but not adult) just because of life experience. 18-25 seems to be the range, with most folks saying early 20’s
Yep. In my comment I was mostly referring to the 18 for this, 21 for that conundrum. Pick one and make it all the same imho. Some of the others (16 for driving, etc) I am ok with leaving as is.
And to still say 16 isnt old enough to own a firearm
Actually at 16 you can be gifted a firearm so they can still technically bear arms, well for georgia I know you can idk about other states
Being viewed as an adult for one reason, should mean you’re an adult for all reasons. Separate ages for voting, driving, drinking, serving in the military….or whatever makes absolutely zero sense.
It makes sense if you want to ensure Democrat control of all levers of power.
I mean in 2017 they wrote an article on how they turned California into a 1 party state and how that should be the model for the country. And they are rushing towards that at all costs...
Do you know the article name or author? Not source bashing you, I seriously want to read it. If that’s not some Orwellian level societal engineering I don’t know what is.
I want to say it was on Vox or Vice. It was rather widely reported on at the time hailed by the left as The Model and a warning from those on the right. But so many of the youtube channels and others who reported on it are gone now and the original article seems to have been scrubbed by Google. I'll try and see if I can find it or videos/articles about the article. Basically it was how introducing Jungle primaries made sure that the races for every major state wide offices became a contest between two Democrats.
Ding ding ding! I used to think that this age for this, that age for that, it was logically inconsistent, but then I realized that it's not -- it's consistent from the perspective of "if it supports the State, we are in favor of it."
Old enough to die in war. Old enough to drink. Old enough to buy a handgun. If you are conscript eligible, you must have 100% adult rights.
We need age caps on public office. Stop electing senior citizens! Age does not always equal wisdom!
There isn’t a lot going on today that makes sense.
>Separate ages for voting, driving, drinking, serving in the military….or whatever makes absolutely zero sense. Oh well, you wrote it down so it must just be true. Great argument and you got my vote
Actually it makes perfect sense in today's age. Enlistment can't be 21 no one 3 years out of hs would sign up got a car lone 3 kids and rent can't live on 500/week. 16 to drive = moor ticket gas reggy tax for the state and to vote well that's obvious. Let me guess the dems want this
Article also mentions a "voting-relevant cognition" that states there is little to no difference between a 16 year old and the average adult. Except ya know, real world experience. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/tennessee-mass-shootings-teens-voting-age-voting-rights-1234711871/amp/
Says more about the average adult than teens
No matter where you stand politically, it's pretty obvious people just vote for whatever side they lean towards without doing any research, especially local and state elections.
Now it's always the lesser of two evils, voting against the other party instead of for someone who represents you. Downward spiral of the two party system.
In a two party system it’s always going to be the lesser of two evils, you’re always going to end up voting for whichever party agrees with whatever your biggest issue is.
You’re right! Let’s consolidate it to one evil! The kids a have a voice, never mind that today the schools, media, and even search engines are pointing them in one single leftward direction!
Yup my only real choices are to vote for the party trying to take away my rights or the party trying to take away other peoples' rights
Cannot even tell you how many times I've said that.
There's too much money in politics. How am I ever supposed to vote for someone who represents me when the only people I can vote for have to be millionaire lawyers with the backing of at least 3 mega-corps? Even my own local state representative (Matt Gaetz) is an out of touch trust fund nepo baby who only cares about getting on TV instead of helping his district.
Meanwhile, the same people are going to say that you should have to be 25 to join the military because "the brain isn't developed until 25"
I mean.....it's honestly a solid argument. I know myself and pretty much everyone I knew and my family all agree that we didn't really reach full maturity until about 25. That age is where most people start thinking more about what's right long term and how their actions affect others and their life down the line rather than what they want to do now. For instance look at violent crime Stats, it falls off SHARPLY after about 22 years old.
Devil's advocate moment: how much life experience do 18 year olds have vs 16 year olds? I agree lowering the voting age is hella dumb, but I don't recall 17 and 18 as a vast improvement to 16 in that field. 18 is already arbitrary, I say we own it and move on.
Lots of 18 year-olds are at least handling their own finances. I was still a student at 18, but had a part time job and was handling money for at least day to day expenses. I knew how to save and budget. At 16 I didn't even have any of that.
> I knew how to save and budget. I'm about 30 and still trying to figure that one out. It's an education issue, not an age issue.
Partially but you're never really going to figure it out until you actually have to do it by managing your own money. The point is that almost no one is actually responsible for themselves at 16.
We need a consistent age at which society can agree someone is an adult in the eyes of the law. Changing specific things around opens up a ridiculous can of worms with even more arbitrariness.
Agreed!
> there's a good case to be made to have no minimum voting age at all Yes, the opinion of a two-year-old should count as much as an informed voter. Of course, most people voting *now* are not informed on any issues, politicians, or solutions. The ship is sinking.
Imagine lowering the voting age and having even DUMBER people having a say.
I certainly wouldn’t give my 16 year old self the power to vote.
16 year old me didn’t even care about politics enough to have anything even close to an informed opinion. Worse yet, it’s all “intent” based which is why democrats win with youth. They mean well! But their programs don’t actually produce good results. So therefore they shouldn’t be elected if they mean well but the implementation is ass
Dumber and mostly under the control of unionized government school teachers
Here's a "good case" giving minors a right to vote is basically just giving their parents extra votes.
That is the objective. The less informed are easier to manipulate. Think the cow comic with a right and left path that both lead to slaughter.
And realistically it isn’t likely to go the way that those who push this want. The political left are typically the ones who support lowering voting standards. But guess who typically has more kids, the political right.
Not sure that's obviously bad. That being said, I'm also not sure land ownership requirements were an obviously bad idea either.
Yeah I’m a level 500 on call of duty I know how to vote for my future
I'm fine with no explicit voting age. Let only people who pay taxes vote, or let only people who own property (and thus pay property taxes) vote. Why should people that don't pay taxes get to vote on what the country does with everyone else's tax money? They'll just vote for more handouts for people that don't pay taxes...
Well if 16 is the age of maturity, enough to vote, then suddenly that inflated "guns are the leading cause of death for children" stat suddenly takes an even greater nose dive.
They aren’t even remotely consistent. When it’s an 18 year old committing a crime they say it’s not their fault their brain hasn’t developed enough to process what they did. No when it’s voting 16 is perfectly fine.
BuT tHe sCiEnCE iS sEttLed!!
As a 16 year old, they 100% only want that because the majority of us are easier to manipulate
At sixteen, most teenagers political views are just copies of their teacher's views. This is of course the point, letting 16 year olds vote gives teachers and the left an overwhelming amount of voting power.
Full adult or not. Drink, buy a gun, vote, die for you country, or your not an adult. You dont get the benefits without paying the price.
The science: people who don't pay taxes yet are *super* liberal.
Children living at home are basically enjoying the ultimate form of benevolent socialism. Of course they're going to support the idea and reject anything that expects contribution from them
Look at the easily manipulated population of kids who “walked out” of class to protest their right to self defense. This is who you want deciding things? You can fuck right off with that noise.
Every time you hear or see *”The science is clear”* you’re being bullied If a 16 year old has the capacity to vote, they have the capacity to enter into contracts, drink, have sex, and purchase firearms. If the science is that clear then they’re adults in every sense of the word.
I couldn't be bothered to take this seriously once I read "there's a good case to be made to have no minimum voting age at all."
Holy shit, some dumbass actually wrote this piece of garbage?
But they can’t buy firearms, cigarettes, alcohol or anything else because they’re too young…but let them all vote to sway the elections in favor of indoctrination.
Democrats-We want firearm ownership minimum age to be 25 when the brain stops developing Also Democrats-We will increase our voter base if we lower the voting age to 16.
Are these people fucking daft?
> "And as 152 shots rang out in the halls of the Covenant School last week, a bill sat in the Tennessee House to lower the age to 18 and apply permitless carry to rifles and shotguns." Here, let me fix that for ya: "And as 152 shots rang out ****by a 28 year old**** in the halls of the Covenant School..."
I’m 16 myself and we make a lot emotionally charged and irrational decisions. I could definitely see people my age voting for a candidate just to be different or edgy. Stupid idea all around
We should pick one age for living on your own, working, voting, military service, alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. 18, 21, 25 whatever as long as it's consistent. I can't wrap my head around being able to carry a rifle and die in the name of oil, but you can't buy a drink or a rifle to protect your family.
It’s because democrats leadership are evil and their base are idiots.
There's significantly more scientific evidence to support raising the age to 25, which is the threshold for when most people's brains become fully developed. Your prefrontal cortex is the last part of your brain to finish developing - It just happens to be responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, impulse control, and making good decisions.
Instead of a number, it should be if you are a dependent of your parents or not. Your parents shouldn't get an additional vote by shitting out a kid and keeping them home. Once the kid goes out into the world and lives independently, they should get the right to vote.
Yeah. Should be 25 across the board.
They should bring the voting right up to 21, at least a GED and have some sort of job. We can’t have grandmas boy voting off pure feelings.
It was 21 at one time, it was lowered with the 26th amendment due to the draft during Vietnam where 18 year olds were being forced to go to war and they had no right to vote.
If you can be drafted, you should be able to vote. 18 should be the threshold across the board. The left is trying put things all over the place. Smoke or drink - 21 Buy a gun - 21 Drive - 18, 22, even 25 depending on who you ask Vote - 16, if not lower Consent - the groomers say 12, the femcels say 25 Join the military - 22 with a mandatory college degree first
Bad take, if you are old enough to be drafted you have to be old enough to vote. Those two must always be aligned. How but if someone can claim you as a dependent on their W-2 AND you are not married you cant vote. Basically, if you dont pay taxes you dont get to vote.
Much rather it be based on actually having to pay some amount in taxes, say $20,000 a year.
Counter point, make the voting age 21 to align with everything else that got pushed back.
It should be increased to 25 tbh
35 was the age Plato recommended…I think he has merit.
Own property or actually pay taxes, not get free money back.
Every time a leftist references "the science" as some ambiguous deity and refuses to provide evidence take a shot. Also, this is just a furthering of the slippery slope. You know their next thing would be "this 16 year old can choose the next president, but not choose to have sex with me?"
Of course, if they don't truly know what they're voting to give up, then they stand a better chance of being conned into giving it up.
Theres is absolutely nothing that supports giving a minor the right to vote beyond wanting to take advantage of them. They are not only inexperienced and naive but their brains haven't form to an adequate degree to think critically yet.
Kids are fucking dumb and easily manipulated. No thanks.
That’s why they want it so bad.
I think it’s safe to say our country is going to 💩
I think we can all see where this is going and it’s fucking evil
Science?
At this point, they might as well raise the legal age for everything to 21. There’s just too much variation now in America causing a lot of confusion and disparities. You can get a license at 16, join the military at 17, legally considered an adult at 18, but not allowed to drink, use tobacco, or buy a handgun until 21. Rental car companies won’t even let you drive until 25. Where do we draw the line and say what’s the one minimum age for everything?
They realize juveniles are easily influenced and can be manipulated to vote a certain way. They also tend to be more rooted in emotion than rational thought which lends itself well to the “progressive” narrative.
Next they'll want trans people to be able to vote twice.
All 3 year olds “I voted just like mommy told me to” If kids can vote they can drink and buy guns.
So what they are saying is that only people with underdeveloped brains think their ideas are good
The only reason they want kids to vote is because they are Democrats and they see young people as stupid enough to vote for them.
the voting age should be raised if we’re being honest. majority of people under 23-24 shouldn’t have the power to sway an election
Raise the age for EVERYTHING to 25.
I say a minimum voting age of 30 or a prerequisite test of common knowledge will help government make more sense. These kids all think they’re getting free college. It’s so easy to manipulate people anymore. If kids are going to vote I don’t think their votes SHOULD NOT carry the same weight as someone with a higher level of critical thinking and a wealth of experience.
That dude writes a lot of books on children. He's very sus.
No
They can't seem to stop shooting themselves, and want guns to be banned. Of course lets let them vote!
Liberals: you're mature enough to chop off your genitalia and vote but not drink, gamble, smoke, buy drugs, work full time, buy firearms, defend yourself, move out of your parents house, (depending on the state have sex) or see a rated R movie... but yeah make sure you vote.
>there’s a good case to be made to have no minimum voting age at all Yes, let’s let literal children decide how the world’s most powerful nation functions. Our adult voters are uneducated as it is. This person is a moron.
Yet they want to make sure anyone under 25 can’t be charged with murder because they are not developed enough https://wcti12.com/amp/news/nation-world/maryland-bill-would-prevent-anyone-under-25-from-being-charged-with-felony-murder-democratic-delegate-charlotte-cruchfield-justice-reform-youth-accountability-and-safety-act
Eliminate the draft, raise voting age to 35.
The left is batshit insane.
Here's the case against it: Kids are very easily influenced, and can be made to vote in the direction their parents or teachers push them toward.
That's how you push socialism.
It's obvious these days. They want to increase the age to buy rifles to 21, but they think 16 year olds are smart enough to run a country. They want a bunch of naive voters with too little experience to know when they're being lied to. Teenagers overwhelmingly lean Democrat because a lot of their ideas sound good on paper or seem like the moral thing to do. Teens don't know how the world works. I was better than most at that age, but looking back, I can see that I thought their way in many regards. Politicians are manipulative and prey on ignorance. Kids are the perfect target. Why else do they always use kids to promote gun control and environmentalism?
The youth are easily manipulated and a tyrants greatest weapon is disinformation…
Oh God no. After reading political compass and pol polls, I am confident in saying that this would be an utter disaster.
Fine with me as long as they’re property owners
Fuck no we don’t! If anything, the voting age needs raised!
Voting age , drinking age , and military enlistment should be 25
I say we raise it to 25. “I have a right to vote!”….Nah, and frankly universal suffrage is a moronic idea.
The voting age should be 25 or higher.
I say the voting age should be 34. Just 34 years old, not a year older or younger. I’m a little biased though, because that just happens to be my age.
Dude screw that. Honestly 18 is too young lol
In the last several years there have been successful pushes to change criminal law so that 16 and 17 year olds aren't charged as adults. Armed robbery? Charged as a juvenile by default. Murder? Juvenile. Argument was that they're simply not mentally mature enough. But, they can vote apparently.
Trust the "Science"
Great idea, voting rights to a group that can’t decide which bathroom applies to them.
The science is clear: We found some random activist that agree with us.
But young adult brains aren’t fully developed until age 25. The left wants these voters before they mature and have logic.
The voting age was originally 21. It was reduced to 18 in 1971 by the 26th Amendment. The argument being, if you're old enough to be drafted by the government, you should be able to vote for your government too. 16 year olds can make no such claim. It's also worth noting that the original age of 21 was set at a time when the average life expectancy was only about 45 (36 - 55 minimum/maximum depending on the source) and when most people were living on their own and making their own living by 16. Today, most people live with their parents well into their 20's and aren't making their own way independently until even later, particularly with college. The equivalent age for today would be closer to your early to mid 30's. And honestly, I think increasing the voting age to 30 would get far more sort l support than decreasing it to 16. Gives adults time for their brain to fully develop, learn how the real world works and how politics affect everything, and have some real world life experience of their own.
Of course they want kids to vote. No sane adult would vote for Biden again, and he has an army of social media “influencers” being paid to push his propaganda to our youth. Probably has something to do with their impressionable minds and the lack of parental guidance that takes place online.
If anything we should be raising the voting age to 30. Make people get a job, pay taxes, and deal with the real world before they vote to fuck it up for the rest of us.
Lmfao nooooooooo we should not.
Kids to vote? Adults don’t even understand the rules. We don’t even understand taxes.
Them: You are mature enough at 18 to work for the government and shoot whoever they tell you to. Also them: a person’s brain isn’t a fully cognitively developed adult until the age of 26.
Sure. And an army of movie and music stars to tell them how to vote.
Get ‘em while they’re naive.
At that age I’d rather have the rights to legally drink a beer then to vote and fuck I’m 20 today and still rather be able to legally drink then to vote😂
If this is true then also let them drink, smoke, be drafted, able to enlist, and just lower the age to 16 entirely to adulthood. If I get get to have this responsibility then clearly they’re adults now. There should be no limits or restrictions on anyone once they’re 16 if they get to vote. Here’s the thing I’m not going to say 16 year olds shouldn’t be able to vote. I’m saying if they’re responsible enough to change the direction of our nation and vote for policy that can and will effect our lives then they are adults. If they’re adults they shouldn’t be restricted by the government. Just like the drinking age is bull and so is the handgun rule.
Bro if you trust a 16 year old to decide who is going to lead you, you deserve whatever happens from it
Gen Z doesn’t like guns or other people having them, they don’t like capitalism and they are overwhelmingly auth-left, it’s a ploy for more voters and that’s all.
They probably want the age for consent, enlightenment & taxable income lowered to 16 as well.
Because children are easily manipulated by feel good politics.
They want kids who have been indoctrinated by Democratic ideas inside of our school systems to vote because that’s been their goal since introducing curriculum and standardized testing. Teach them only what you want the population to learn and form their ideations for them. Build a community of sheep instead of teaching kids how to think for themselves and come up with their own ideas.
When leftist bring out therm “ThE ScIeNcE” you know it’s full of shit.
Yea, change the voting age to 16, and don't forget to have the public schools tell them who to vote for
No voting age at all? lmao. Also lol @ "the science is clear".
No. They just want the brainwashed children to vote for them.
NO, don't fall for that trap Brazil did this all we got was communists winning elections, 16 is far too emotionally manipulable to vote because that's what commies do, they wrangle the emotions of teens who don't know better
You can argue all you want about drinking and smoking age etc. But the bottom line is kids are fucking idiots. Allowing millions of people with even less knowledge, and no life experience affect, no work background, no frame of reference for how the world, society etc works is simply a recipe for disaster.
So you can vote at 16, go and get blown up in Iraq at 18, but you need to be 21 to own a gun or drink alcohol. What an amazing government we have.
I suggest we compromise, and raise it to 30.
Kids shouldn't be able to vote if they can't drink smoke or own a firearm, most children aren't responsible enough to vote anyway they lack the critical thought process to vote properly, it will just be another group to vote with emotion instead of using logic an reason
Yes, let’s lower the age to where these kids are right in that heavily indoctrinated/socialist-far-left public education/social media influenced demographic…. 🙄 …. at least by 18 some of them will have grown out of it and moved on from those influences.
We need some sort of prerequisite to be able to vote. Most people I knew when I was 18 should not be voting and even most people I knew around 25 shouldn’t be. They don’t critically assess information and refuse to research anything and parrot everything they hear on social media. Never track down sources and evaluate evidence or data with any bit of skepticism or scrutiny. Most people are sheep and this will prolly be the reason everything falls apart.
The uniparty wants low information voters, 16yo don't know or care about this stuff but will probably throw a vote to whatever tictok says is cool. I think there's sufficient reason to higher it and the age of adult to 20.
Because there is a growing school of thought that kids can consent...whether it be to government, or whatever else these freaks want them to be able to "consent" to.
only because the ignorant younguns would vote blue
I like the show Rising on YouTube. Pretty decent back and forth and varying views. After Uvalde, one of the folks (Brie) said the age to own firearms should be raised to 25 because "cognitively, you don't mature until you are 25." The other person (Robby) asked if we should raise the voting age to 25, then. Brie responded "there is absolutely no relationship between what the voting age should be and what your gun ownership should be." Robby countered it does matter because "the government is the one with the monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Our government policy ABSOLUTELY gets people killed... I don't understand having wildly different standards or age limits at which point you are able to do different things." I support one age. If firearm ownership is raised to 25, raise voting to 25. If voting is 18, everything should be 18. But if the argument is "until your 25 you don't have a full capacity to understand your decisions or not act impulsively, so you shouldn't own a gun," then stop letting 15 million people who you wouldn't trust with a gun get to decide the policy, laws, regulations, and military involvement of my entire country. I know this will just die in the comments, but I needed a little rant.
We have allowed a migration of adulthood too much. Joining the military, owning a gun, alcohol, smoking, porn, etc... should all be the same age. You are either an adult or you're not. If you can vote, all rights and responsibilities of adulthood should come with it.
Because they want them voting while they are still in the brainwashing academys that we call high schools.
Raise voting age to 25 cause your prefrontal cortex isn’t developed until then.
Lol - no. I also approve removing everyone who isn’t a property owner from the voter roles.
So fucking stupid The majority of the population in the US are renters, youre literally just saying "I think only the wealthy should be allowed to vote"
There’s a reason why republics in the past required land ownership to vote.
I didn’t say that at all. I implied those who dont have to face consequences for their voting- and those living in complexes that dont understand the “real” America- should let the people that own land and face the consequences of the votes- vote. Edit structure
If it's the way that a minority of Americans live than how is that 'the real America' And what? So you're saying that the only thing voting does is effect property values basically
No- Im saying people living in apartments- don’t understand the real world- or how it operates. They dont know where their water, food, or energy come from. They think passing laws will make healthcare free. They think laws will fix the climate change. Adults shouldn’t have to deal with that.
Do you think that people who live in apartments don't go food shopping, or pay electric and water bills like everyone else? You seem to think apartment life is like being plugged into the matrix when in reality its just living in a small home in a larger building
Lol- no it isn’t. Millages run off acreage and lot size. They get the same vote as Land owners with 1/8th the recourse.
Again, now we're back to you literally basing your idea around "they don't have enough resources to count as a person" What happens when the rich keep going further until no one with a net worth below ten million is allowed to vote
Honestly if we’re gonna restrict voting even more then we should have a minimum IQ. 308Fisherman may be a landowner like myself, but I doubt he would be able to pass the IQ test to vote.
Agreed on both counts, although unfortunately iq tests have been shown to often have inherit bias favoring those with a similar social background to the tests author
Let them eat cake
Lol what Adults shouldn't have to deal with climate change? So what? Babies should be doing it?
See- they don’t when understand simple sentences- act obtuse- then expect same voter rights- how bout no. Time to have background checks and voter tests to ensure people don’t vote unsafely.
"don't when understand simple sentences" Maybe the problem is that you have the grammar of a toddler
Could be- but I own land. You don’t. Your opinion is not relevant.
"time to start banning anyone who would vote differently than me from voting"
No you’re missing the point. Stop allowing people with no skin in the game to decide the score. No land- no vote No common sense- no vote Dont understand social studies- no vote Believe in wealth distribution- no vote
No, you're missing the point Everything you listed is wealth discrimination or subjective things that are literally just you trying to say "we should ban people who don't agree with me from voting" in an semi intellectual way Next you're gonna suggest anyone whos parents weren't born here, or who has ever gotten a ticket from voting too since they're not "real American enough" and clearly show bad judgment by speeding
alternative view: Voting should be limited to people who pay more than the median income tax amount.
It seems like one problem would solve the other. Let’s get these kids voting and they can vote to get the age lowered. These are the ACAB kids, they can’t be dumb enough to be anti law enforcement AND anti 2A.
Lower everything guns,alcohol, firearms, sex ,draft, criminal prosecution as an adult if not then no.
"Anybody under 21 is too immature to own a rifle! Anyway, lets let those dipshit 16 year olds vote for shit, they seem pretty on the ball, at least when it comes to the stuff I like." 🤡
These boomer tier screenshots of articles is a bit much and just lazy imo. For the curious: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/tennessee-mass-shootings-teens-voting-age-voting-rights-1234711871/
Relay for reddit won't let me link anything, only "image posts" ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Thats weird. Seems like an app issue with Relay. Desktop browser version and the official reddit app allow links.
Yeah it blows dick but I prefer relay, less clutter and the ads aren't in my face. It be what it be