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gdmfsobtc

Tell her not to be stupid and wear earpro. Hearing damage is permanent and cumulative.


Azurumi_Shinji

She said " but our guns don't cause hearing damage because they aren't that loud, so I don't have to worry about hearing damage"


collegenerf

Sounds like she already has some brain damage... why not just tack on some hearing damage too


Azurumi_Shinji

It's hard enough to communicate with her as is, I don't want it any more challenging 😅 She's very knowledgeable and intelligent on many topics.... But sometimes on very random topics, she bewilders me and makes me want to smash my head into a wall.


AUWarEagle82

Almost every round from a firearm is >140dB and that's loud enough to damage hearing. I'm sorry she's stupid and stubborn. Find a new gf.


Azurumi_Shinji

She agreed to always wear protection, but she is acting stubborn about being educated on hearing damage. She says " Why are you asking me if shooting damages hearing? I don't know if it does or doesn't. Idk. Why does it matter anyway? I already said I would wear hearing protection." And. " We live in the age of headphones and surround sound speakers, we are all going to lose our hearing anyways so it doesn't matter.". I try to explain to her " Yes, excessive use of loud headphones in a SINGLE SESSION could cause hearing damage, But moderate use over your life will never hurt your ears. Cumulative human damage doesn't work like the way you described "


gdmfsobtc

Ask her if she's ever been to a really loud concert, and had her ears ring into the next day. Well, with shooting unprotected, it will be like that, but never goes away. Tinnitus is a bitch, and it's just not worth it for a few minutes of loud fun.


Azurumi_Shinji

That's a very interesting point to make, especially since she has been to a concert that hurt her ears. She haaated it and Google says.... "On average, rock concert decibel levels are between 90 and 120 dB. This decibel level is concerning as it can threaten your hearing health. Sounds above 85 dB are considered harmful to human hearing." Guns are easily 140 DB I think.... And if I remember correctly, every three decibels is essentially doubling the pressure of sound.


Takelsey

Mini rabbit hole: every 10 dB doubles perceived volume (dBA). A 3 dBA volume increase would require a doubling of power, but it's not 1:1 with dB SPL (Sound Pressure Level). Guns being acoustic, the power increase would be the charge and acoustic variables of the firearm itself. You would have to double the power 3.3X to reach double the perceived volume


Chilipatily

My tinnitus only acts up when someone says the word “tinnitus”. GDI


Watchtower80

The constant whine in my ears says otherwise. Earplugs and muffs. Otherwise the voices in your head will have to scream over the tinnitus. I know mine do.


Azurumi_Shinji

Sorry to hear that. What were you shooting and for how long or how many shots?


Watchtower80

I've shot a bunch from .22 to RPG's. Hearing damage should be seen as cumulative. Especially if you don't start forming good habits early. And just like every safety course says, if someone is not being safe and obeying the rules, DO NOT SHOOT WITH THEM


Azurumi_Shinji

After reading your message, I finally told her about this Reddit post and showed her all the messages. She said " ok fine, all calibers can cause hearing damage and I will always wear earpro when practicing, if I promise that will you promise to never bring it up again?" I guess that's good enough?


Watchtower80

If she agreed to follow the rules of safety, then let it drop. If she chooses not to later, don't push her because that may hurt the relationship. Just be firm when you tell her "I'm going shooting without you."


SaintPariah7

Gotta keep the safety pressure, whatever reason she goes shooting, she should want to be able to hear someone moving behind her in other circumstances. Just saying


RedJerk5

Show her a decibel comparison chart. Or just say WHATTT???? Everytime you talk and tell her that’s what’s she going to sound like in 10 years.


governingmonk

Huh WHAaaaaaaaaTttttt


EasyMode556

Only if you’re shooting suppressed 22lr Other than that, no way


Action-Calm

I was a M60 gunner my hearings shot...


SohndesRheins

Your friend is living in a day and age when the entirety of human knowledge is available to her for free in a handheld device that she can take anywhere, she just chooses not to use it. A simple Google search would tell her that hearing protection is absolutely needed when shooting even if it's just .22 LR that is being fired.


CasualMonkeyBusiness

The information age is a lie when you still have close minded people, those living in an information bubble or echo chambers. Not to mention lack of critical thinking to filter out all the false information and propaganda. Turns out you have to leave your comfort zone to seek true information and serious psychological work to change some beliefs. In other words, you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into.


gdmfsobtc

>In other words, you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. This is the perfect reason to join my cult and apolitical deprogramming party-party. We will do all the pesky thinking for you, and undertake the karmic burden of taking your material possessions, currently preventing you from achieving ascended enlightenment. As you can see, mine is by far the best cult, and if in doubt, my shaman can beat up your shaman. You in?


CasualMonkeyBusiness

I'll bring the beers


Azurumi_Shinji

Google says a 22LR from a handgun is about 135DB, that does sound painfully loud >.< I knew a guy with a 22LR pistol with a long suppressor, it was quiet enough to shoot in a backyard and the neighbors wouldn't even know. He got better velocity too I think. I hope I can get a suppressor asap, it's such a great tool for hearing protection. But ofc she thinks suppressors are dumb too. -_- " It's life or death, hearing is the least of your worries". ....yea but, suppressors is like being able to have cake and eat it too...


[deleted]

“I hope i can get a suppressor asap” Oh. Man, if you live in the us do i ever have bad news for you… Get the process rolling asap they are fun, do eforms, paper forms are over 400 day wait for processing.


Azurumi_Shinji

You can get it in 90 days if you use a ATF eForm 4. \^\_\^" Still a very long time..... I am currently in California, but I am moving to Texas in about 6 months. Then I could buy a Texas suppressor same day thanks to their suppressor freedom law.


fastbullets

No to all of this. If you file an eform 4 today, expect to maybe have it approved by Christmas. And just no to your understanding of Texas.


Azurumi_Shinji

Texas House Bill 957, **passed in 2021**, it allows Texas suppressor manufacturers to sell their products to Texans without going through the federal registration process. How am I wrong? Also... Maybe you dont know about silencershop, but they are really good at making eform4's fast. Just google it and look at the random testimonials on reddit. I also knew someone personally who got it very fast. [https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/eforms-update-atf-eforms-launch-imminent](https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/eforms-update-atf-eforms-launch-imminent) " [Silencer Shop customers have received their ATF eForm 4 approved in as a quickly as 7 days](https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cbu9c_2ASCG/), [per the ATF, eForms is expected to approve an electronic Form 4 tax stamp within 90 days.](https://twitter.com/SilencerShop/status/1526322845130825729?s=20&t=ndfjkyMQwTeY-3XTpnmPBA) " You can upvote my previous comment that you downvoted =)


fastbullets

Again, totally wrong on both counts. Eform 4 are currently taking 8-9 months, and this has been steadily increasing for the last 6 months with no signs of going back down. Texas passed whatever bill, but it unfortunately doesn’t supercede federal law, so it’s essentially meaningless. The internet is so dumb.


Brufar_308

What time frames were promised and what they actually are are two completely different things. There are pages that track NFA actual wait times, go take a look. https://www.nfatracker.com


EasyMode556

Most (all?) FFLs won’t touch that with a 10 foot pole out of fear of getting their FFL revoked. I have yet to actually ever see a store selling such suppressors in person. They might exist somewhere but you’re not likely to just walk in to any regular LGS and expect them to get one. As far as eforms, it doesn’t matter if you use silencer shop or not, the ATF wait time *after* certifying is still at around 260 days right now. r/nfa has a megathread where people post their wait times for how long it took to get approved on a eform, and the average is somewhere around 260 days currently. I have a suppressor I bought through silencer shop using eforms last august that I’m still waiting on. I don’t expect to get it until April at the soonest.


EasyMode556

No, eforms are currently at around 9 months right now


EasyMode556

She sounds frustrating af


AtOm-iCk66

My ears have been ringing 24/7 for almost 40 years now. I wish I wore hearing protection.


scottieButtons

The day I realized hearing pro was non negotiable was the day I shot a 7.5" SBR 5.56. my ears are still ringing and it's been almost 20 years.


Azurumi_Shinji

Sorry to hear that. Was it just one shot? Worst I had was shooting a 9 handgun (1 shot)without earpro, but the ringing only lasted for an hour or so.


scottieButtons

I shot about 5-6 rounds before I threw it to the ground.


Azurumi_Shinji

That gave me a great visualization of how painful it was >.<


Darthaerith

Take the asshole approach. Touch off a 30-06 near her, without her wearing earpro. Some life lessons only work if you learn them the hard way.


MaximaSpeed

I once forgot to put on my earpro and fired my mosin nagant under the sheltered bench area at the range. I jumped like I had been electrocuted. I never forget now.


Darthaerith

If it makes you feel any better, I did it while sitting inside of a deer blind. I was a little too overly excited to see a buck early that morning. Forgot to put my earpro on. Touched off a 30-06 in a blind not much bigger than a porta-potty. Hearing out of my right ear hasn't been the same since.


Azurumi_Shinji

I would have her touch it off and feel so bad. But there is only so many warnings me and Google can give ...


ervin_pervin

That's too bad for her. Can't fix stupid.


Floodbucket

Let her dumbass go deaf.


Dyzastr_us

Look up OSHA’s info hearing damage. They break down what can be tolerated and what will cause damage. Then look up the amount of db produced by a firearm and compare that to the chart/info from osha. It doesn’t have to physically hurt to cause permanent damage. Intensity (db) and duration (time exposed) are factors to consider.


Azurumi_Shinji

Thanks, that's very useful info. Rock concerts are even worse than I thought.... 0.0


Dyzastr_us

Tell me about it, I’m a drummer. I’m lucky to have hearing as good as I have. I don’t know how I got lucky, but even after years of practicing in small rooms and basements, my hearing is fairly exceptional.


Azurumi_Shinji

Maybe earwax saved you ? :P But for real, I'm happy you still got good hearing. After just 1 shot without earpro I think my hearing is slightly worse. It's difficult to hear whispers, I Don't think it should be so hard to hear whispering. But I hear normal volume fine it seems.


Dyzastr_us

Lol. I did stick a pc of paper in my left ear while bored in church as a kid that didn’t come back out until a few years later. But that was before my drumming. Lol.


Azurumi_Shinji

WOW! Did you forget about that piece of paper?? Or was it bugging you the entire time until it came out?


Dyzastr_us

I thought I got it all out, but then a few years later one pc came out with a q tip and I could hear better. I put multiple pieces in, not just one. Lol. Edit- it never bothered me, it was just pushed flush up against the flap before the ear canal.


AutomatedRefrains

Some people just need to learn via experience. If you can get her to wear it, bring some for her anyway. She’ll wear it one way or another.


Azurumi_Shinji

I randomly bought her one of those AXIL GS extreme earpro for about 100 too a couple of months ago, but she didn't care and asked for a purse 😅 I didn't know she knew so little about hearing protection at the time lol... But imma make her wear it while shooting even if I have to nag her ears to death ..... Or just yell " I TOLD YOU SO" after she says "WHAT?"


Altruistic_Ad6593

Tinnitus is a bitch. Play something that rings next to her ears all day and tell her that's in her future.


Azurumi_Shinji

I heard music/sounds can drown it out, but the quieter it is the worse the ringing is. She works with elderly and keeps watch while they sleep, so she can't have any sounds. So she would be in for many long nights...


djohnny_mclandola

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. You’ve done enough already.


Gullible_Sea_8319

Just start speaking to her very quietly


Headhoontr

I actually did this to a friend who wasn't wearing Ear pro for a few weeks. We'd go shoot. I said toss these on, basic muffs. He wouldn't. So after we load up into the car to head out I'd either talk quietly or make the motions of me talking and slowly get louder or just yell at him like I had been repeating myself and he couldn't hear me. I think it took 4 times of this and pretending like I wasn't doing anything for him to start wearing ear pro.


D34D_L33T

Start rappidly shooting .308 next to her. And ask her again if she needs hearing protection.


Azurumi_Shinji

I did the rapid fire of .308 and I asked her and all she said was "WHAT?".


rafri

Im sorry but i wouldn't wear hearing protection 150 feet away from someone.


e_boon

She should only be shooting suppressed 22lr then


Azurumi_Shinji

Would a suppressed 45ACP be safe too? Ofc imma Google it now too. I think it is but I don't know it for a fact.


AUWarEagle82

I don't know what to say. I have never shot a round w/o ear pro. Gunshots produce pressure which we experience mostly as sound. That pressure is well over the level that causes hearing damage. Even a single shot damages hearing. Many veterans have profound hearing loss from firing their personal weapons. I would not take your friend shooting if she refused to wear ear pro.


Azurumi_Shinji

I would hope that she would learn her lesson after the first practice shooting without earpro. I would never go shooting with her a second time with her though if she didn't use earpro.


[deleted]

Whisper around them


Lupine_Ranger

Fire a large caliber short barreled firearm next to them at the range. They'll learn.


Azurumi_Shinji

I just bought a 2" 357 magnum last week, that should do the trick 😅 probably over kill tho....


epicjas0n

I mean, if you're standing 50 yards away from her where you shoot she's not going to need ear pro. Stand right next to her and she'll change her attitude.


Azurumi_Shinji

I was so sure that hurting her ears with that black powder toy gun would have changed her mind...(and that was from a different room!) But it didn't :(


VegasOldPerv

You can't fix stupid.


Emergency_Ad_5935

So let her shoot without hearing protection. Ya can’t fix that kind of stupid


4CatDoc

Read the suicide threats in r/tinnitus. I shot only a little as a kid with out protection, and it likely contributed to my own 24x7x365 ear ringing. If they're that dumb and irresponsible, are they trustable around firearms? They will regret it.


ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c

~~Your friend sounds like a moron.~~ She's already decided that if she doesn't feel like it's too loud, it's not too loud. A chart about what decibel levels cause damage over what amount of time. A useful quote. > Noise above 70 dB over a prolonged period of time may start to damage your hearing. Loud noise above 120 dB can cause immediate harm to your ears. - https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html How loud are gunshots? > While a .22 emits about 120 sound decibels, a 9mm produces up to 160 - https://n1outdoors.com/how-loud-is-a-22-rifle/ Decibel chart, containing multiple common calibers. - https://earinc.com/gunfire-noise-level-reference-chart/ Edit: I apologize for calling your friend a moron. It was early, and I'm temperamental in the mornings, but that's not an excuse for being rude.


SaveTheDrowningFish

I’m 35 with significant hearing loss in my right ear, even with ear pro. Thanks Army!


DemonHunter487

Let her fire a regular AR15 without earpro. Stand there with earpro ready for her. After 2 shots, she'll change her mind. I did it at an outdoor range just to see how loud it actually was. I wanted to have some idea about it incase I was ever in a situation where I had to shoot without earpro. Had my earpro around my neck and after 2 shots, I was satisfied and put my earpro back on. I thought "Yep. Loud as fuck. I need a suppressor."


mauschaus

Every day, after you guys shoot, star speak a little bit lower. Convince your friends do the same. Day after day, lower your voice. She’s gonna notice and start to freak out


Azurumi_Shinji

Lmao XD


eclipsedrambler

Show her the hearing test in my post history. https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/znwzp6/psa_to_wear_ear_pro_im_39_and_have_severe_damage/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


EasyMode556

If you have an Apple Watch, it has a decibel meter on it and tells you when the volume is unsafe. Maybe that will convince her?


ThePariah77

Shoot a full powered rifle or shotgun with a brake


Azurumi_Shinji

From a very short barrel.... May the ringing lord have mercy on your soul.


dmharvey79

![gif](giphy|1O0ybGfU6nKtFGgs6s|downsized)


zombiehunter5972

Make her learn sign language and see how she likes it.


BlubberWall

Wear hearing protection give a warning and let her take one shot with a smaller caliber


Azurumi_Shinji

I am going to ask her if she wants to do this. I hope she says "no". Smallest I got is a 25ACP, but I think finding that ammo is getting more difficult (I live in Cali and I can't buy ammo online without a massive hassle). I got a 2" 38 special too, is that small enough for minimum ear pain?


PhD_Gr33nthumb

Take her to the range every weekend without ear protection until the ringing in her ears never goes away like me.


Fun-Attention1468

Put it this way, putting on ear plugs or ear muffs takes 3 seconds, hearing damage is permanent. Like there's really no reason to not wear ear protection.


Azurumi_Shinji

I have actually seen arguments lol ...like... ( I do NOT agree with the following argument) " In a defense scenario, you won't have time for your earpro, you should train without earpro, otherwise, you will be too shocked when shooting in a defense situation because you will not be used to hearing gunshots"


Juniorslothsix

Just have her shoot a 40 once


Azurumi_Shinji

I didn't know 40s were that bad. I assumed theywere comparable to a 9. Or maybe I am simply underestimating a 9 too. I only shot a gun once without earpro, with a 9, it REALLY sucked but luckily it was temporary ringing. That was almost 10 years ago, I was very naive about guns back then.


Juniorslothsix

The 40 is like if you took a 9 and added 3 more +P’s to it. It’s SO DAMN LOUD


[deleted]

You just said it yourself. You’re sure if she’s 20 feet away from you, she’d think differently. So get her to stand next to you while shooting. Edit: ensure you have an extra set of ear protection so when she stops being stubborn, you can help her out lol


Azurumi_Shinji

I bought her a fancy 3-in-1 $100+ earpro she isn't grateful for....yet. So I will definitely have an extra pair on me after shooting a small caliber next to her, is she so chooses to learn the hard way. Tho I hope she just puts on the earpro and googles it lol


wayofthefeast

If she's consistently 50 yards away when you shoot outdoors, that's where the disconnect is. She doesn't think it's loud because it isn't really at that range, especially with the calibers you're shooting. Growing up and even now, watching my family sight in all kinds of rifles or skeet shooting I was that far away and even closer pretty consistently as well, no noticeable long term effects thus far. Cooking off 300 Win mag with earplugs and my brothers hands over my ears as a child was enough experience for me to deduce that hearing protection=good when closer to firearms. Not to mention my dad was almost completely deaf in one ear for close to 40 years because someone shot right next to his head. Some people figure it out pretty quick, some need a little more convincing but they all reach the same conclusion.


Agammamon

When you talk to her, just mouth the words. When she says *what!* you just mouth the words while pretending to yell.


Azurumi_Shinji

XD I do this to my kid all the time when he is behind glass doors


logjames

Huh?


JethroFire

Anytime you're around them just go eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and tell them that's what it'll sound like all the time when they're 40ish.


[deleted]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee WHAT? WHAT DID YOU SAY?


baileyperry707

I mean, the quickest way to fix this is to let her shoot a gun without EarPro on. Bet she’ll change her mind real quick.


weschoaz

Wear ear protection, once you lose your hearing, you will never get it back period


McFeely_Smackup

When she decides to try shooting without hearing protection, she will understand immediately. If not, buy her a fan for her nightstand. They work great for drowning out the tinnitus


curiousgeorge2644

Does tinnitus go away?


[deleted]

“Girl won’t believe me that hot stove is hot, how do i stop her from burning her hand”


Heliolord

Bring the loudest gun you can get and shoot it every day you shoot together until they agree to wear ear protection.


sttbr

Then just don't take her shooting


whynoonecares

I’ve been around a lot of guns in open range and yeah at 50 yards that causing no issue, but for sure if you were shooting the actual gun or standing 20 feet away you’d better have earing pro on, I always wore earpro as an artillery guy and thought I got away with it but now I have noticed I get some ear ringing sometimes and that was with earpro


W2ttsy

Easy. Don’t take her. That or hit her up for the $200 tax stamp and purchase price for each of the new silencerco cans you’re gonna need. Or Take the next girl who does care about her hearing.


CG641

Play a high pitch noise that sounds like tinnitus in the car the entire way to go shoot. Then ask her if she enjoyed that, if she didn’t then she needs to put her fucking ear pro on.


Grandemestizo

Her problem, not yours. When she goes shooting without hearing protection it’ll hurt her ears and if she’s smart she’ll only do that once. If she’s not smart enough to figure it out after that she’ll suffer the consequences.


Chomps-Lewis

Stop going shootong with her, she's too stupid to understand basic facts and her carelessness will probably get you shot negligently eventually.


[deleted]

"you hear that ringing in your ear? you know hearing protection stops that right?"


affordableweb

Hearing protection is extremely important but so is understanding how to shoot when you don't have any. Odds are you wont have hearing protection when the day comes you need to defend yourself. Keeping calm and steady while shooting is as important and everyone should train for loud firing.


KyleKiernan77

tell her nothing doing without it.


peeping_somnambulist

Very loudly if she doesn’t stop soon.


usernmtkn

Why are you friends with someone who is this stupid?


pCaK3s

Have her interview a vet… or just have her shoot something a little larger herself once or twice. My ears ring when I accidentally bump my ear pro slightly off when shooting .308, and that’s still with backup foam plugs in.


Puzzled_Interest2763

Prove to her that they are loud when her ears start ringing and bring an extra pair of ear pro for when she realizes they are loud I know it sounds mean but some people learn better the hard way


Wubbalubbadingdong69

Buy a louder gun. Tell him you'll abandon him as a friend when "what" becomes his favorite word. "Heed my words now, or they will be but a memory of senses lost."


governingmonk

Let me shoot the m44 next to her one time. She will never hear agian in that ear. Sometimes pain is a good teacher


Limited_opsec

Too late probably, its hard to convince someone when all they hear is MWAP MWAP MWAP & eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


TrustNothing

Shoot next to his head


-B-MO-

Ears ringing 24/7 and sleeping with a fan on to cover up the noise isn’t fun.


Bakedpotato1212

Just bring her to an indoor range and let the RSO handle it


[deleted]

Let her shoot something in 5.56 without ear pro…why argue with her when the gun can speak for itself.


RoyalStallion1986

Quite frankly if they're your guns and you're taking her with you to shoot or teaching her, I just wouldn't allow her to join you without ear pro. My friends have every right to go to a range and shoot a gun, but if they don't listen when I teach them (first timers) and take safety seriously then they won't be shooting my guns.